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Old 08-08-2012, 10:22 AM
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Exclamation HELP Lying even when it's proven

I need some help. This is with my 8 yr old good client I brag about. The boy is usually well behaved and good with all ages kids especially preK and toddlers. I have been having issues with he and my own son who is 10. Neither of the boys have a hitting problem but once in a while 1 will accuse the other of a hit or a push, taking a toy away etc. I correct my son and the DCKs accordingly. Sometimes my son even gets a harsher punnishment because I expect more fomr him. Well I have been catching the 8 yr old DCB in lies. My own son is corrected be it time out or loss of a toy even grounded depending on the issue. No matter what the situation or the accusation DCB will never admit to any wrong doing. This really upsets my son because I don't correct DCB. At 1st I believed him because I had no reason not to and well my own son has been known to lie at times. I have tried to keep them in sight at all times but when I cook lunch or go to the restroom or tend to other kids while we all play outside it can be hard and I miss things.

A couple months ago after yet another lie from DCB, my son had an idea to catch DCB in his lies. He told me he would call my phone from his cell from his room and just put the cell on the bed so I could hear a conversation he would then ask DCB why he is lying. So I hear him go in his room and invite DCB in. He told him he could pick a special toy to play with (sons room is off limits to dayacre kids unless invited) So they get toys and my son asks DCB why he lied to me when I asked him if he took the toy off of him. DCB said he didn't know. My son then asked and last week when DCB was taking the toys out of his hand and he told why did DCB lie then too? DCB said he doesnt want to be in trouble so he's not telling me what he did. So now I heard it from his own mouth even if it was sneak attack to get it. SO now I dont trust him and I try harder to keep them in the same area with me but again I wont always be able to.

Now today I started lunch and my son came in and said DCB punched him in the chest. He said he held his shoulder with 1 hand and punched him in the chest with the other hand. I asked DCB and he said no he never touched him. I told my son to raise his shirt and there was a fist print outline redmarks finger outlines and all!! I showed DCB and he said well I dont think I hit him. I got stern and said "look at the mark tommy!! Thats proof you hit him you are the only one here today!" DCB then said "well if I did hit him it was an accident." I showed him that his fist matched up perfect to the mark and he still denied punching him. I told him to sit on the couch. I tried to explain he can not lie to me. The worst I will ever do to him is put him in time out for his actions so he has to trust me to tell me the truth or I will never trust him. He said he has never lied to me. I know he has and I 100% believe he punched my son in the chest so what do I do now? This is my GREAT client I was bragging about that gave me b-day gifts and all! I dont want to upset her but this lying has to stop! Advise please?
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Old 08-08-2012, 10:34 AM
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With my school agers I tell them "I KNOW you lied so you can sit here until you tell the truth or your mom comes. I don't have anything else to say to you until then." Then I let them stew. They normally confess within 30 minutes but I only do this if I know for sure what the truth is.
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Old 08-08-2012, 10:38 AM
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With my school agers I tell them "I KNOW you lied so you can sit here until you tell the truth or your mom comes. I don't have anything else to say to you until then." Then I let them stew. They normally confess within 30 minutes but I only do this if I know for sure what the truth is.
absolutely this. Its important that he be able to admit a mistake and own up to it. If you cant trust him, I wouldnt keep him anymore. Hitting and stealing and lying is not okay at all and I would be worried that he would really hurt someone bad in the future. Why would you keep someone there that regularly mistreats your son?
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Old 08-08-2012, 10:44 AM
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Lying is tough to deal with especially at that age.

You could try sitting him down--OUTSIDE of a lying incident--and having a frank discussion with him about the difference between lying, telling the truth, and the repercussions of each. His reason for not wanting to get into trouble is a very reasonable one and age-appropriate. <--not acceptable, and it has to stop, but it is understandable. Perhaps you need to set out some very obvious consequences for various behaviors--and put lying as a much more severe consequence than fessing up in the first place.

Explain to him that when people lie, they can't be trusted. Spend a few days treating him as a younger child that can't be trusted, and if he fusses, remind him that you can't trust him because he's been lying. Remind him that punishments for telling the truth are less severe than if you're being punished for the action AND the lie.

For the punching, he should have to do something like write a letter to your DS apologizing for the punch and for lying about it.

Perhaps if you catch him lying he should perform "community service" and have to clean stuff for you?
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Old 08-08-2012, 10:47 AM
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Tommy would lose the privilege of being alone with my son period you act like a baby, you get treated like a baby.
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Old 08-08-2012, 12:21 PM
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I would tell his mother what he has done to your son and he has been lying to you a few times or more. I would not trust him again in your home and he will the lose privilege of being alone with your son for a while until he stop it.

I taught my daughters never lie to anyone or me. I told my daughters if I found out they lied to me and they would get in a huge trouble. I explained to them it would be better for them to tell me the truth so they will have less than getting in trouble. However, they knew I can read their body language if they lied to me.

One day, my youngest daughter came home from school and she was very upset. She told me that her librarian won't let her loan the highest level book (5 grades level book) when she was 2nd grades because she told her that she cannot read that high level book. I know she can read high level book since she read book earlier than two years old. I do believe her because I see her eyes that she is not lying. The next day, I went to my daughter's school to find out why she won't let her have it. I told the front desk that I would like to get my daughter to go to the library with me to discuss with the librarian. We went to the librarian and she looked at my daughter right away. She was like guilty then say something about the book that she said she never said not to let her to have book before I ever open my mouth. Honestly, my daughter was shocked what she told her. The other librarian assist ran to get the book for my daughter to check it out. After she goes back to class, I talked to librarian "Why did you quickly said something before I say anything to you?" She said she doesn't and I told her "well you shouldn't have cover yourself and now I do know you are lying and don't ever do that again front of my daughter." She was embarrassed because I caught her act! I went to spoke with principal about what happened and she had been taking care of it!

My daughter came home to ask me why she would lie to me and she said she was shocked that adult can be lied, too. I told her yes some adults do lie because they want to cover their self not to get in trouble.
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Old 08-08-2012, 12:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cheerfuldom View Post
absolutely this. Its important that he be able to admit a mistake and own up to it. If you cant trust him, I wouldnt keep him anymore. Hitting and stealing and lying is not okay at all and I would be worried that he would really hurt someone bad in the future. Why would you keep someone there that regularly mistreats your son?
He doesn't mistreat my son on a regular basis. As I said in the original post he is usually well behaved especially the younger kids. He has been here for almost 8 months and this is the biggest problem we have had as far as hands to self. They usually get along but tend to bicker here and there. My son can start things too. Like I said he and his Mom are my best clients usually the kids get along better. I was just debating on talking to his Mother because a punch is serious business to me especially to leave a mark. I also found out about an hour ago that he has been hanging around a new group of kids since last week. A few boys who like to destroy things and they are not allowed back to his house.

Thank to everyone for the advise.
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Old 08-08-2012, 12:26 PM
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Just wait until you have the joy of lying teenagers. Oy vey.
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Old 08-08-2012, 12:36 PM
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We always had the rule that: you will get into trouble for the wrong thing that you did, but if you lie about it the punishment is doubled. Also, if you lie to me I will not trust you again for a very long time. That means no time without supervision because I can't trust you alone. Trust is usually something kids that age can understand and value.
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Old 08-08-2012, 12:40 PM
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I agree with the idea of sitting him down, one-on-one, without other children around.

I read once you should never ask a child a question that you know the answer to-it sets them up to lie. So, don't ask him if he's been lying, either. TELL him you KNOW he's been lying. You really like him, but you're dissapointed, and it's time to wipe the slate clean and start over.
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Old 08-08-2012, 12:52 PM
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I would not tell what I would do is later sit down with both boys and talk about trust.

When it comes down to it, all a man really has is his word. A good man wants people to believe him so he tells the truth and is honest.

Everyone gets angry and sometimes we mess up and hurt someone or hurt their feelings. We should not make it worse by lying. You tell the person you are sorry and try to help make it better. And you tell the truth when asked about it. We call this the Honor code.

Boys I want you both to be the best young men you can be. I want to be proud of you for being honest. Maybe you can both help the other. If you see your friend not being honest have a secret signal like holding up a finger to remind him to tell the truth..


OK???? Now honest men.... lets have some icecream
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Old 08-08-2012, 12:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by itlw8 View Post
I would not tell what I would do is later sit down with both boys and talk about trust.

When it comes down to it, all a man really has is his word. A good man wants people to believe him so he tells the truth and is honest.

Everyone gets angry and sometimes we mess up and hurt someone or hurt their feelings. We should not make it worse by lying. You tell the person you are sorry and try to help make it better. And you tell the truth when asked about it. We call this the Honor code.

Boys I want you both to be the best young men you can be. I want to be proud of you for being honest. Maybe you can both help the other. If you see your friend not being honest have a secret signal like holding up a finger to remind him to tell the truth..
OK???? Now honest men.... lets have some icecream


oooh I like that!
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