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  #1  
Old 01-01-2017, 07:21 PM
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Angry Kids That Don't Listen

I have 2 kids that won't listen to anything I say. Kids are 3.5 yo dcg (in pullups even though she has no clue about potty training) and 5 yo dcb, siblings. Both are socially and developmentally delayed. They are here 3 days a week (I am open 7 days a week) for 13.5+ hours. Neither one listens to directions. The girl will only do something when you YELL at her to do it. She understands, but speaks in gibberish that only mom and dcb can understand. You must repeat the same instructions for the same infractions 10-15 times each day. The boy is very loud, loves violent play, and torments my dog to the point that she hides in corners and under my desk. I got advice to put them in time out, but in order for that to work, I would have to be standing there, physically holding them in the chair for the duration of the time out. Any other suggestions for behavior modification, since I can't afford to terminate?
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  #2  
Old 01-02-2017, 05:56 AM
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You don't want to hear it, but you can't afford to NOT terminate.

Find another way.
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  #3  
Old 01-02-2017, 06:06 AM
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Originally Posted by Cat Herder View Post
You don't want to hear it, but you can't afford to NOT terminate.

Find another way.
This.

Last year I had two brothers who were somewhat like this. Oldest was 3.5 and I could hardly understand a word he said. Younger brother was following suit. They never engaged with the other kids, but were constantly wrestling with each other. I actually had an interview on a day when they happened to be the only kids here and honestly they turned off the potential client because they didn't engage at all with the "new" kids and were just rolling around on each other
And since I started making evaluation noises to mom, they didn't return this school year leaving me high and dry. So I lost out on a potentially good family, and they stuck me too.

Get rid of them before they start turning off your good families and turning away potential clients.
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  #4  
Old 01-02-2017, 11:25 AM
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Default Kids won't listen

I to had to ask a family to leave my daycare. This child would not listen, would throw chairs at the teacher, spit at her and screamed if they were made to do anything they did not want to do.
It's a hard thing to do but when I saw other children becoming afraid of this one out of control child I had no choice. Since then I have enrolled other children and my spots are filled.
1 bad apple does spoil the whole bunch!
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Old 01-03-2017, 09:47 AM
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These kids have a diagnosis of developmental disabilities? Then you aren't qualified to care for them and their parents should be seeking gov't assistance for early intervention.

No diagnosis? Then the clock is ticking but, as I learned the hard way, you can't be the one to save them. Terminate.
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  #6  
Old 01-03-2017, 10:16 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by badger411 View Post
I have 2 kids that won't listen to anything I say. Kids are 3.5 yo dcg (in pullups even though she has no clue about potty training) and 5 yo dcb, siblings. Both are socially and developmentally delayed. They are here 3 days a week (I am open 7 days a week) for 13.5+ hours. Neither one listens to directions. The girl will only do something when you YELL at her to do it. She understands, but speaks in gibberish that only mom and dcb can understand. You must repeat the same instructions for the same infractions 10-15 times each day. The boy is very loud, loves violent play, and torments my dog to the point that she hides in corners and under my desk. I got advice to put them in time out, but in order for that to work, I would have to be standing there, physically holding them in the chair for the duration of the time out. Any other suggestions for behavior modification, since I can't afford to terminate?
1st suggestion: Terminate care
2nd suggestion: Terminate care
3rd suggestion (said with pain, as you should not be dealing with this for the amount of money I assume you are charging): Back to baby time! Only soft toys, limited space to roam, limited toys in general, limited privileges, extra naps, conditions on everything!
AND LIMITS HOURS! (no kids need to be in care for almost 14 hours a day! How long is her commute??)

*If they have disabilities and this is not just behavioral, then they need to be evaluated and proper care needs to be sought. You are only making things worse in that case...for yourself and them. And when it comes to finances, you are not getting paid enough to care for special needs kids, so as far as not being able to afford it, I think you should reconsider.
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Old 01-03-2017, 10:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by badger411 View Post
1. 3.5 yo dcg in pullups
2. 5 yo dcb, siblings.
3. socially and developmentally delayed
4. 13.5+ hours
5. The girl will only do something when you YELL at her to do it.
6. boy is very loud, loves violent play, and torments my dog
7. I would have to be standing there, physically holding them in the chair for the duration of the time out.
8. I can't afford to terminate?
OP, any resolution??

I am worried about you. This is simply a known recipe for disaster. Statistically speaking.

How are you doing?
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  #8  
Old 01-03-2017, 03:01 PM
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DCM is a CNA working 12 hour shifts at a rehab hospital. She drops off at 5:20 am for her 6 am shift, and picks up at 7 pm after she gets done at 6:30 pm. So that is why they are in care for 13.5+ hours, depending on traffic, errands after work, etc. Why so judgemental about the length of time kids are in care? Not everyone is an 8-4 or 9-5 office worker. The aggregate time spent in care is still 40 hours a week, it is just lumped into 3 days instead of 5. We provide 24 hour care if requested because there is an EXTREME need for care for parents working overnight shifts. I just don't get the superior and snobby attitude of some of the people in this forum towards parents and fellow providers. Some of you are like the salesclerk in Pretty Woman who tells Julia Roberts, "Oh those are VERY expensive. YOU couldn't afford them."
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Old 01-03-2017, 04:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by badger411 View Post
DCM is a CNA working 12 hour shifts at a rehab hospital. She drops off at 5:20 am for her 6 am shift, and picks up at 7 pm after she gets done at 6:30 pm. So that is why they are in care for 13.5+ hours, depending on traffic, errands after work, etc. Why so judgemental about the length of time kids are in care? Not everyone is an 8-4 or 9-5 office worker. The aggregate time spent in care is still 40 hours a week, it is just lumped into 3 days instead of 5. We provide 24 hour care if requested because there is an EXTREME need for care for parents working overnight shifts. I just don't get the superior and snobby attitude of some of the people in this forum towards parents and fellow providers. Some of you are like the salesclerk in Pretty Woman who tells Julia Roberts, "Oh those are VERY expensive. YOU couldn't afford them."


I actually did shift care (13 hour days), so i am not judging parents who need it. You spoke of two children with significant behavioral (developmental?) issues that are in care 13.5 hours a day. I apologize for missing the 3 days part, but it is not snobby to ask about the potential correlation between spending almost 14 hours a day in daycare and bad behavior. Or if they have delays and your daycare is not set up for that, it may just not be a good fit.

All in all, i am not judgemental of any shift worker as they tend to be the heart of our communities, but i also refuse to raise someone else kid, so if you cant figure out a solution, i would take a pay cut and move on.
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  #10  
Old 01-03-2017, 04:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by badger411 View Post
DCM is a CNA working 12 hour shifts at a rehab hospital. She drops off at 5:20 am for her 6 am shift, and picks up at 7 pm after she gets done at 6:30 pm. So that is why they are in care for 13.5+ hours, depending on traffic, errands after work, etc. Why so judgemental about the length of time kids are in care? Not everyone is an 8-4 or 9-5 office worker. The aggregate time spent in care is still 40 hours a week, it is just lumped into 3 days instead of 5. We provide 24 hour care if requested because there is an EXTREME need for care for parents working overnight shifts. I just don't get the superior and snobby attitude of some of the people in this forum towards parents and fellow providers. Some of you are like the salesclerk in Pretty Woman who tells Julia Roberts, "Oh those are VERY expensive. YOU couldn't afford them."
Usually more time in care (daily) = more behavior issues

Generally speaking... it's basic child development not judgemental or superior.
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  #11  
Old 01-03-2017, 05:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blackcat31 View Post
Usually more time in care (daily) = more behavior issues

Generally speaking... it's basic child development not judgemental or superior.
BC you beat me to it.

I 100% agree. kids that are in care longer are always the ones who usually have more behavioral issues. Sadly, there is not enough time in a day for the child to get face time with their parent, which I believe takes a huge toll on the child.

Years ago I operated for 12.5 hour days. I had all kinds of issues like yours. I cut my days down to 9.5 and magically all of the major drama went away. I, of course still have small behavior issues from time to time, but nothing like I did when I had kids for extended hours.

how much do the kids play outside? I also find that if they are pent up for extended periods of time and not given enough opportunities to let out some energy, behavioral problems will occur.
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  #12  
Old 01-03-2017, 05:11 PM
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I have three dck's who are here 3 days a week from 5:30-7:15. They are from 3 different families and their moms work at a local hospital as nurses.
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  #13  
Old 01-03-2017, 05:36 PM
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I have three dck's who are here 3 days a week from 5:30-7:15. They are from 3 different families and their moms work at a local hospital as nurses.
happy to hear that you have a golden group...you are lucky.


I had those kids too when I was open that long, but sadly it was about 50% of my kids that were having behavior issues.
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  #14  
Old 01-03-2017, 05:52 PM
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happy to hear that you have a golden group...you are lucky.


I had those kids too when I was open that long, but sadly it was about 50% of my kids that were having behavior issues.
I used to have kids that long as well but now the parents I have that work those types of 12 hour shifts have a spouse or family member that will pick up earlier so the child doesn't have to spend so much in care.

Somewhere along the way I learned the fallout wasn't healthy or acceptable for any party involved.
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  #15  
Old 01-03-2017, 05:58 PM
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I used to have kids that long as well but now the parents I have that work those types of 12 hour shifts have a spouse or family member that will pick up earlier so the child doesn't have to spend so much in care.

Somewhere along the way I learned the fallout wasn't healthy or acceptable for any party involved.
same here. When I jumped to the graduating fee scale all of a sudden my 12.5 hour families could all pick up by 4:30pm. Shortly after that happened I chose to close at 5pm...

No it isn't healthy for any party involved. can you say stresssssssssssssss...lol
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Old 01-03-2017, 06:05 PM
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Originally Posted by badger411 View Post
DCM is a CNA working 12 hour shifts at a rehab hospital. She drops off at 5:20 am for her 6 am shift, and picks up at 7 pm after she gets done at 6:30 pm. So that is why they are in care for 13.5+ hours, depending on traffic, errands after work, etc. Why so judgemental about the length of time kids are in care? Not everyone is an 8-4 or 9-5 office worker. The aggregate time spent in care is still 40 hours a week, it is just lumped into 3 days instead of 5. We provide 24 hour care if requested because there is an EXTREME need for care for parents working overnight shifts. I just don't get the superior and snobby attitude of some of the people in this forum towards parents and fellow providers. Some of you are like the salesclerk in Pretty Woman who tells Julia Roberts, "Oh those are VERY expensive. YOU couldn't afford them."
Wow. That was one heck of a stress response.

I am talking provider burnout statistics, you are talking emotions.
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Old 01-03-2017, 06:26 PM
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For lurkers, newbies, parents and anyone wanting a refresher burnout/stress course, this is an awesome free one. PDF.

http://lee.ifas.ufl.edu/fcs/FCSPubs/...are_Stress.pdf
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  #18  
Old 01-03-2017, 07:13 PM
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Originally Posted by badger411 View Post
I have 2 kids that won't listen to anything I say. Kids are 3.5 yo dcg (in pullups even though she has no clue about potty training) and 5 yo dcb, siblings. Both are socially and developmentally delayed. They are here 3 days a week (I am open 7 days a week) for 13.5+ hours. Neither one listens to directions. The girl will only do something when you YELL at her to do it. She understands, but speaks in gibberish that only mom and dcb can understand. You must repeat the same instructions for the same infractions 10-15 times each day. The boy is very loud, loves violent play, and torments my dog to the point that she hides in corners and under my desk. I got advice to put them in time out, but in order for that to work, I would have to be standing there, physically holding them in the chair for the duration of the time out. Any other suggestions for behavior modification, since I can't afford to terminate?
You've indicated you want to keep these kiddos so I wanted to suggest some tips that may be helpful.

A few things stood out to me: the need to repeat instructions, the child's poorly understood speech, and the child's poor play skills in general. (As demonstrated by grossly inappropriate play)

If they aren't connected with the school district for early childhood special education services, see if the parent are interested and refer. It would be a huge help for them..

A strategy that may be helpful with following directions: keep your directions simple. (if the child is using 1-2 word sentences- directions should be no more that 3-4 words). Talk in context. (If you are asking the child to pick up toys, make sure the toys are in sight). And use gestures.

Set up the environment for success. If the child isn't ready for an animal in the environment right now; best option is separation from your pup until he learns gentle play. (Same goes for if they aren't ready for certain types of toys)

Limit play choices and model appropriate play during interactions.

Instead of time out, for most things you can try showing them what you want them to do instead. They dumped the toys, they have to clean up before the next activity. If the child hit help them to make the other child feel better and problem solve what they can do next time instead. (E.g.: ask for the toy). In my experience, time out is best for attention behaviors or when a child just needs a few minutes to calm down.

HTH
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Old 12-19-2018, 01:04 PM
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Originally Posted by badger411 View Post
DCM is a CNA working 12 hour shifts at a rehab hospital. She drops off at 5:20 am for her 6 am shift, and picks up at 7 pm after she gets done at 6:30 pm. So that is why they are in care for 13.5+ hours, depending on traffic, errands after work, etc. Why so judgemental about the length of time kids are in care? Not everyone is an 8-4 or 9-5 office worker. The aggregate time spent in care is still 40 hours a week, it is just lumped into 3 days instead of 5. We provide 24 hour care if requested because there is an EXTREME need for care for parents working overnight shifts. I just don't get the superior and snobby attitude of some of the people in this forum towards parents and fellow providers. Some of you are like the salesclerk in Pretty Woman who tells Julia Roberts, "Oh those are VERY expensive. YOU couldn't afford them."
If this is still the case in your area, then I would think that you would have some options for filling the open spaces. Maybe offering overnight or second shift care and then finding a part time job outside of the over night or second shift duties.

fwiw~ I am offering a reply as a suggestion or a means to help not be condescending or rude as previously assumed.

I think there comes a time when you have to realize things aren't working and you have to open your mind to exploring other ideas or suggestions. Somewhere in the middle of all the support and advice others have posted/suggested over the last 2 years, there is an answer but if you are in the same boat or worse than you were in Jan 2017...then something HAS to change.

Like I said previously, I'm sorry you are feeling so defeated and I sincerely hope it will get better for you and your wife.
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Old 12-19-2018, 01:08 PM
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None of mine listen ���� I resort to yelling cuz if I don't they wont get in line. Flashback to year one teaching ��
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Old 12-19-2018, 05:20 PM
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Originally Posted by badger411 View Post
DCM is a CNA working 12 hour shifts at a rehab hospital. She drops off at 5:20 am for her 6 am shift, and picks up at 7 pm after she gets done at 6:30 pm. So that is why they are in care for 13.5+ hours, depending on traffic, errands after work, etc. Why so judgemental about the length of time kids are in care? Not everyone is an 8-4 or 9-5 office worker. The aggregate time spent in care is still 40 hours a week, it is just lumped into 3 days instead of 5. We provide 24 hour care if requested because there is an EXTREME need for care for parents working overnight shifts. I just don't get the superior and snobby attitude of some of the people in this forum towards parents and fellow providers. Some of you are like the salesclerk in Pretty Woman who tells Julia Roberts, "Oh those are VERY expensive. YOU couldn't afford them."
I have a family of nurses who only work 12 hour shifts. They need care for almost 14 hours those days: 12hr shift+1hr lunch+50 minutes for their commute. I am only open ten hours a day. Originally I did consider doing those longest days for them but thankfully their extended family was able to pull through to care for dcg those extra hours.
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Old 12-20-2018, 10:51 AM
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Originally Posted by badger411 View Post
DCM is a CNA working 12 hour shifts at a rehab hospital. She drops off at 5:20 am for her 6 am shift, and picks up at 7 pm after she gets done at 6:30 pm. So that is why they are in care for 13.5+ hours, depending on traffic, errands after work, etc. Why so judgemental about the length of time kids are in care? Not everyone is an 8-4 or 9-5 office worker. The aggregate time spent in care is still 40 hours a week, it is just lumped into 3 days instead of 5. We provide 24 hour care if requested because there is an EXTREME need for care for parents working overnight shifts. I just don't get the superior and snobby attitude of some of the people in this forum towards parents and fellow providers. Some of you are like the salesclerk in Pretty Woman who tells Julia Roberts, "Oh those are VERY expensive. YOU couldn't afford them."
So glad somebody finally said this. There are some folks on here who just know everything. And they also have very strong opinions.
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