I am done in DC capacity, lost a few kids and I am trying to balance keeping all of my employees.

At our last staff meeting, I told them that I want to keep everyone, but need to make sense of the finances. I told them that I was only going to be paying them for the actual time that I scheduled them. so if they are scheduled to work from 8-12, then they need to clock in/out for those times. I told them that even if they are not done with what they are doing, that I need for them to clock out at that time. Any time that they chose to stay past their scheduled hours are NOT going to be paid.

Well one my my asst who I love to death is a very hard worker and will always stay longer than needed. BUT he is not clocking out. So this week I am having to pay over an additional 2 hours.

Of course, I am going to pay him this time, but next time I am not going to accept it.

I want to make sure that I am well within my legal rights to do this.

I tried to google it, but could not come up with anything.....

thanks so much

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I can't answer your question as I know nothing about employee law in your state but I do want to say that if I were an employee, I'd be upset about the bolded part above.

If the employee is in the middle of doing story time or reading to a child, are they suppose to just up and stop doing something because it's time to clock out or are they suppose to clock out and then finish what they were doing?

In the first scenario, I would think that would leave a lot of tasks/activities undone.

In the second scenario, if they are required to clock out but then still go back and finish the activity, then they are being asked to work without being paid for that time....kwim?

Just wondering if that is what you meant?

How many assistants/helpers do you have? Instead of a bunch of part time ones, couldn't you find full day ones instead? Seems more stuff would be completed if an assistant was there all day verses a couple hours.

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so they are scheduled to clock out at a transition time. so right after outside play is done, the other employee is already here to take over. So they would not run into any issues like you are suggesting.

Having a full time employee would cost me way more than 3 part time employees. My insurance, workers comp, over time, and etc would not work out. I have sat to do the math.

Only 2 people are scheduled to work each day.

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Oh okay, I understand now.

So in that case, then I would just be really diligent/firm about employees clocking in and/or out at their scheduled times.

Maybe even tell them they will be written up for not doing so. If after 3 occurrences, they will be termed/fired. Would that work?

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Not paying for time worked is wage theft, and it could REALLY cost you big. It is illegal not to pay your employees for time worked. Your choices are to pay the employee for all time worked, or FORCE them to drop everything at noon and leave, whether finished or not.

You'll be in a heap of trouble if you don't pay for ALL time worked. I worked for one of the world's largest corporations, and a few years ago, we all got checks for thousands of dollars-they had to go back (because the Dept. of Labor forced them to) and pay for 3 years of back wages for doing just what you suggest: paying only for scheduled hours, but they were requiring us to come early and stay late.

You can't even expect them to clock out and then discuss the situation at work with their coworkers. They need to leave when they clock out.

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If you are not requiring them to do any work before or after their scheduled time, I do not see a problem in it.
Just tell them once again that it is very important for them to clock out at their scheduled time and if they do not follow this policy, then they will be written up.

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Do NOT withhold wages. You have to pay them for the time that they are locked in for. If you don't pay them for all of the time that they are clocking in for you could find yourself in trouble with the labor board.

I suggest you pull him aside and talk to him in a one on one meeting and give him a warning. Get him to sign a written notice stating that he understands that he MUST clock in and out at the appropriate times and cannot go over his scheduled hours and if he does go over by 5 minutes a day (or something) that he will be placed on probation. Then actually do it. Then cut his hours by 30 minutes per day so you have that extra 30 minute buffer in the case that he still does not follow through with clocking out on time. Do this for all of your employees.

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I understand what you are saying, but how could that be true? Lets say that I worked at target and I was scheduled to work from 9 to 3 but every day I was staying until 4...... How is that fair to the employer, if they budget and scheduled me for the hours set that they gave me in writing.

I do have in my employee HB this rule that they will only be paid for the hours scheduled unless I ask them to stay longer, otherwise, they will need to clock out at their scheduled time to do so.,

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The search function never seems to work for me but I vaguely remember reading something similar where Tom weighted in on the "do I pay them if they don't punch out" thing.

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Is it necessary to have a "time clock"? If you are only willing to pay for those hours, why do they need to clock in and out? Is it unlawful to not have a time clock type system?

Meaning - pay for the hours they are scheduled only.

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Have you considered paying by the day versus by the hour?

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it does help me to track the hours and money spent. In the past, there have been times that I have asked them to stay later, come in earlier etc and this helps me make sure that I am paying them on time.

What I have found out is that I can have an Electronic time management feature to automatically clock out employees. I can always go back to add time, just not take time away.

If I see that the employee is not clocking out on time, I can ask them to change the time , sign off on it and then write them up as MV said, showing that the employee is TAKING hours that they were not scheduled for.

I think that the program I have does have a feature where I can set up an automatic clock in time/out time.

thanks for all of your help, I am feeling pretty stressed here trying to hold on to everyone and manage my numbers all the way around.

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Perhaps your best bet to consult a lawyer. In the restaurant business we were instructed to write up employees for poor performance if they didn't clock out on time. Whether or not this is legal in your state I don't know.

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They can place you on probation or fire you, but they MUST pay you for any hours you are working.
You have only the option of firing this person or lowering their hours/days they are there, but you MUST pay them for any and all hours they work.
Explain to him that he must clock out on time, or he will no longer have a job.

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I did find this information

If an employee forgets to clock out, the human resources manager can have the worker correct the hours on the time sheet and sign off on them.


I will not do it this time, but I will make certain that if it happens again that I will make them do this and then write them up.

thanks for all of your help

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Oh and we got in big trouble because a manager decided to make her numbers look good by deleting employee time punches. Employees got mad and sued her, as she told them she did it because they didn't deserve the hours. Even with employee permission that is illegal here and if they claim an injury during the time they worked but weren't on the clock then insurance charged us huge fees and hr would do an investigation. Needless to say I always made sure employees were punched in when working...wasn't worth the lawsuit.

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Right but they didn't forget to clock out. They chose to work. Forcing them to not get paid for their work is illegal. It doesn't matter if they sign off on it...they could still sue you. I'd say cover your bases by writing up one warning and then suspending or firing them if it continues.

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they are stealing hours from me by trying to slide by and work more so that they can earn more money and are not clocking out. I guess I should consult an attorney, because the way I see it, then any of my employees can just force themselves to stay here past their work schedule AND then I have to pay them. even if it only happens one time.

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Why are they not clocking out on time? If you've asked them this, what are their reasons? If you haven't asked-I'd recommend asking. I have a few ideas on what to do but I'm interested in the "why" and the answers to that question will change my advice.

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so what happens is that I may be working with the kids and the employees are doing a schedule change. So from outside time, my afternoon asst and I take over and we go to bathroom time. I say good-bye to my morning asst and I am on my way. Or I may be cooking while afternoon asst is doing bathroom time.

then all of a sudden I come out of the bathroom or kitchen and my morning asst is setting up nap, because when he had more hours, he would be still on the clock setting up nap time. I am not aware that he did not leave. I guess I need to see him out the door, but you know how fast things move, that I say my good-byes and I am on my way to the next thing......

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Do NOT withhold wages. You have to pay them for the time that they are locked in for. If you don't pay them for all of the time that they are clocking in for you could find yourself in trouble with the labor board.

I suggest you pull him aside and talk to him in a one on one meeting and give him a warning. Get him to sign a written notice stating that he understands that he MUST clock in and out at the appropriate times and cannot go over his scheduled hours and if he does go over by 5 minutes a day (or something) that he will be placed on probation. Then actually do it. Then cut his hours by 30 minutes per day so you have that extra 30 minute buffer in the case that he still does not follow through with clocking out on time. Do this for all of your employees and notify/remind them at the next meeting etc.

I think at this point the only thing you can do is be consistent, set consequences and be firm but fair ... or if you really like this employee and don't want to upset him for fear of losing him you may want to decrease another employees hours ... which would not be fair. That's a tough call.

EDIT:
Sorry I misread the OP. I thought you were paying him over because he was staying later than he was scheduled but I think you meant that he forgets to clock out so you have to pay him more because of that. If that's what you meant then yes you can do what you said above. Sorry!

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True. But you could just as easily be seen as the thief since you can't prove they weren't working. You can document this "theft" as poor performance and suspend or fire them for it. It covers your bases and provides written evidence if you do have to fire them for it. Otherwise, if you delete their time punches, even with their signature, they can claim you harassed them or that you falsified their time punches. Look what happened to Walmart.

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of course I would always be fair and pay my asst any time that they worked. But in all fairness, this employee is doing this intentionally to make more money or just thinks that they are being helpful????

I told him today, I need to make sure that we are sticking to the schedule, please be sure to clock out on time today and from now on. He agreed, so we shall see what happens.

I reminded him that I really want to be able to keep everyone, so instead of me having to cut an employee or cut a lot of hours, that I have only asked everyone to reduce their time by 30min a shift. He did say that he didn't realize that it was that big of a deal and said sorry.............

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Ok, Got it. I had a similar issue when I was lead teacher w/3 assistant teachers. I ended up being very direct. "*assistant's name* it's 12 o'clock. Please go clock out. Have a nice afternoon!" This was after we had a conversation about it (like you did recently w/your assistant). I hope it doesn't come to that for you but if it does, it's another option.

Good luck!

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I also read Tom's post about paying employees and it is a law that you absolutely cannot withhold pay from someone. If they are not following your schedule you need to give them a warning and/or fire them if it continues. If you are there at the time, go in and take over or have someone else take over, and tell them it is time to go. If they don't do it, then you would need to get rid of them. But you can't ever not pay for time they were working- you would be in a huge legal situation and could be sued for a lot, lose your business, ect. Not worth the employee if they are not going to abide by your rules/ schedule!

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Just read this- I hope that ends his over-working and everything is good from now on!!

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I guess I stress sometimes more than needed. He clocked out right on time this afternoon. I gave him his pay check and we chatted as normal and he leaves. 15 later I get a knock on the door and it's him. He hands me a starbucks coffee; my favorite and hands back the additional pay he got from not clocking out in cash.

I asked him to come in. Of course I thanked him for the drink and refused to take back the $. We sat and talked it out and I told him that I was very happy with him overall, but that I really needed him to make sure that he was following the rules and making sure to take note of the recent changes. He told me that he is having some money troubles and that he really didn't mean to work over the clock, it was habit. WHICH I know is true, he's my hardest worker. I told him that if he wanted to work on some advertising for me that I could pay him to help offset the cut in his hours. Getting the enrollment back up would mean that I could give every body some hours back.

I do feel bad that I had to cut everyones hours, but it was not personal and they all know that.....

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That is awesome!! I'm so glad that taking the direct approach and talking to him worked out so well.

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yeah me too. I love this kid. He is so good with these kids. He is here every day 5 min early and always works hard for me. I recently gave him a good pay raise, he just met his 1 year mark with me. I can't say enough good things about him. When I was really sick a few weeks back he came in and volunteered some of his time helping my husband clean my house so that it was ready to go again the next day. Since it was after daycare hours were over my husband thanked him by asking him to stay for dinner and beers. He really is like family to me and it killed me to have to cut his hours, but I can't keep paying out money that I don't have.

thank you all for your wisdom, I love this site.

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That is so great! I have a lot of retail management experience, managing over 75 staff members at a time (which means 15 minutes here and there times 75 employees=an unbalanced labor budget). I have also worked in Human Resources and my husband is an SVP in Human Resources for a $2 Billion dollar company. We have seen seen first hand some multi million dollar lawsuits as wage suits are very easy to win. Just be very careful on how you word everything!

This is the way I have always managed it- the employee is responsible for clocking out on time. If they anticipate a need for staying over their scheduled time, they must come to the manager and ask for permission BEFORE staying over. If they clock out more than 7 minutes past their scheduled time to leave, they will receive a written warning the first time. The second time, they will receive a final warning and the 3rd time,they are gone. Regardless like others have said you have to pay them, but just put this policy in writing and have every employee sign it and put it in their employee file. Explain your reasons for doing this to them like you did with your employee when you met with him. Most of the time when employees understand the reasons WHY something is done, they are more than happy to comply. If they aren't then they just aren't a good fit.

It sounds like you are on the right track and you have a great employee there. That was so cute with the Starbucks

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I was routinely required to work off the clock and only be paid for 40 hours no matter how many hours I actually worked at my old job. They refused to pay overtime. We would have breaks subtracted from our pay that we weren't allowed to take because there was no one to relieve us. She also informed us that we had to clock out at certain times whether we were finished or not, but 99% of the time we couldn't leave because there either would be no one to relieve us or the next person would be out of ratio because she never employed enough people to cover all the shifts.

I didn't know that was illegal then. If I could prove she did it, I'd sue the pants off that woman.

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