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Daycare Center and Family Home Forum>Starting To Wonder...If I Should Be Concerned
hwichlaz 01:15 PM 12-01-2017
I have a new little guy...newly 2 years old...and been here since the beginning of September.

Every morning when he gets here, and every day when we come inside....I sit him down and hand over hand help him remove his shoes and coat, put them away, then take him to wash his hands. If I help another child first and ask him to get started...blank stare. He doesn't try to help at all...and seems confused when I ask him to try on his own. He won't attempt to pull up his pants after a diaper change either.

He comes 4 days a week...and we're starting month 3. I really feel like it should be starting to click.

What say you?
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Blackcat31 01:37 PM 12-01-2017
Originally Posted by hwichlaz:
I have a new little guy...newly 2 years old...and been here since the beginning of September.

Every morning when he gets here, and every day when we come inside....I sit him down and hand over hand help him remove his shoes and coat, put them away, then take him to wash his hands. If I help another child first and ask him to get started...blank stare. He doesn't try to help at all...and seems confused when I ask him to try on his own. He won't attempt to pull up his pants after a diaper change either.

He comes 4 days a week...and we're starting month 3. I really feel like it should be starting to click.

What say you?
Maybe he really thinks the entire act (of undressing) includes YOUR hand on his hand. So when you say "go ahead and get started" he really doesn't have any idea what it is you are asking him to do....

Getting some of these little guys/gals to understand that I want them to do something independently or all by themselves seems to be more and more of a confusing task now days.....especially from those whose parents do it FOR them. kwim?

Could that be the case with your little guy?
Does he actually understand you want him to do it without your hands on his?

Do his parents dress/undress him upon arrival and pick up?
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TheMisplacedMidwestMom 03:23 PM 12-01-2017
I had this kid recently. Anytime I offered assistance he simply gave up. I started small with things I knew good and well he could do and kept building. When we would come in from outside I gave him a spot to sit until he took his shoes off. The first week he literally spent an hour there most days, ranging from the blank stare, to picking lint on the carpet, to screaming for help because he couldn't do it. He simply got the broken record of "Ok, take off your shoes then come play". Slowly it clicked. I repeated this with every dressing skill. We went through the entire process for most of them. He's 2.5 now and last week he wouldn't let me help him put his snow suit on.
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TheMisplacedMidwestMom 03:38 PM 12-01-2017
Originally Posted by TheMisplacedMidwestMom:
I had this kid recently. Anytime I offered assistance he simply gave up. I started small with things I knew good and well he could do and kept building. When we would come in from outside I gave him a spot to sit until he took his shoes off. The first week he literally spent an hour there most days, ranging from the blank stare, to picking lint on the carpet, to screaming for help because he couldn't do it. He simply got the broken record of "Ok, take off your shoes then come play". Slowly it clicked. I repeated this with every dressing skill. We went through the entire process for most of them. He's 2.5 now and last week he wouldn't let me help him put his snow suit on.
Just to clarify, this was/is a kid who's parents did everything for him. It was total learned helplessness and I knew that going in. In the beginning I really think he had no concept that I actually expected him to do it for himself. He was the same with verbal directions for anything, just did not understand that an actual response was expected (like walking to another room, he expected you would take him there).
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hwichlaz 04:14 PM 12-01-2017
Right now he’s sobbing on the floor with his pants in his lap while his friends eat snack. I told him we wear pants for meals (he wears stiff jeans and sleeps better without them). I told him that if he puts them on his legs I’ll help him pull them up and button them. He looks pretty hopeless.

He’s the sweetest little guy ever... but at this rate he’ll take his snack home with him.
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TheMisplacedMidwestMom 05:05 PM 12-01-2017
Mine would literally turn his pants upside and try to put them on and tell me he needed help. Then we'd go to do something like snack and he'd suddenly have them on in about 30 seconds. He did the same with shoes and socks. Turn shoes backwards, try to push socks on, anything to convince me he couldn't do it. Eventually he would give up and do it, but lots of time and creativity went into the "drama" of it.
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Mom2Two 05:37 PM 12-01-2017
I wouldn't have this kind of power struggle with him. Meet him where he's at and work on him helping with part of each task--part that he is able to do and understand.

Newly two is so young. Kids are so literal at that age. Maybe split it and have him sit on a chair, you hold the pants in front of him, and have him put his leg in. But wait til next day--wait til he's in a good mood.

If he won't do even that much, put his foot in and have him push down...something...anything...then raise the bar.

But what do his parents say? Does he help with anything at home? How are his other milestones, especially self-help milestones?
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flying_babyb 05:41 PM 12-01-2017
Originally Posted by hwichlaz:
Right now he’s sobbing on the floor with his pants in his lap while his friends eat snack. I told him we wear pants for meals (he wears stiff jeans and sleeps better without them). I told him that if he puts them on his legs I’ll help him pull them up and button them. He looks pretty hopeless.

He’s the sweetest little guy ever... but at this rate he’ll take his snack home with him.
Been there! had a kid who could pull up his own business (underwear, pants, put on shoes ect). He would scream and yell and throw a tantrum daily. I would just ignore it and go about doing other things, saying X i see your having so much fun. Y your doing a great job. ect.. It worked, eventually he realized I wouldn't do it for him, he wouldn't get snack (I would leave it on the table till 4), would miss outside time (he would sit on the rug in the bosses office) and miss art. Couple of times he sat there till his mom came (and carried him out with no pants on, cause she wouldnt do it either). Took two weeks of me not helping and he did it alone.
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e.j. 05:44 PM 12-01-2017
I'm probably going to be the odd man out on this but if it were my newly 2 year old dcb, I think I'd encourage him to do things for himself but expect to still help him a lot - especially if his parents aren't working on independence skills at home. He's still on the young side so I don't think I'd let it get to the point where he'd be sobbing and missing snack with his friends. (I honestly don't mean that as a criticism; just saying I'd do things differently.) If he were older and I knew he was capable, I might feel different about it.
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midaycare 06:23 PM 12-01-2017
Originally Posted by e.j.:
I'm probably going to be the odd man out on this but if it were my newly 2 year old dcb, I think I'd encourage him to do things for himself but expect to still help him a lot - especially if his parents aren't working on independence skills at home. He's still on the young side so I don't think I'd let it get to the point where he'd be sobbing and missing snack with his friends. (I honestly don't mean that as a criticism; just saying I'd do things differently.) If he were older and I knew he was capable, I might feel different about it.
I agree with this. Although I've used both methods. It really, really depends on the child.
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mamamanda 09:00 PM 12-01-2017
Originally Posted by e.j.:
I'm probably going to be the odd man out on this but if it were my newly 2 year old dcb, I think I'd encourage him to do things for himself but expect to still help him a lot - especially if his parents aren't working on independence skills at home. He's still on the young side so I don't think I'd let it get to the point where he'd be sobbing and missing snack with his friends. (I honestly don't mean that as a criticism; just saying I'd do things differently.) If he were older and I knew he was capable, I might feel different about it.
Yes, I agree as well. Little steps at a time & a lot of encouragement. I think we as child care professionals often see a child's potential & that is wonderful, but I think we also need to meet them where they're at. If mom & dad aren't encouraging it at home it will take time. Plus personality plays a role too. My six year old still tries to get me to help him with everything. My 18 mo & 3 yo love doing anything & everything by themselves. Different personalities. Personally, I've been there with a 3 yo dcg who refused to put on slip on shoes by herself & I let her sit & cry through all of outdoor play time several days in a row until she finally did it. If I were doing it over though, I would have expected her to work on it, but I would have"helped" her, not done it for her. We just don't know where these kids are coming from or why they feel incompetent in certain areas. It also isn't good for me or the other kids in care to hear that much crying. Lord knows I about joined her by day 3.
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Mom2Two 09:11 AM 12-02-2017
Originally Posted by e.j.:
I'm probably going to be the odd man out on this but if it were my newly 2 year old dcb, I think I'd encourage him to do things for himself but expect to still help him a lot - especially if his parents aren't working on independence skills at home. He's still on the young side so I don't think I'd let it get to the point where he'd be sobbing and missing snack with his friends. (I honestly don't mean that as a criticism; just saying I'd do things differently.) If he were older and I knew he was capable, I might feel different about it.

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LK5kids 01:42 PM 12-02-2017
Originally Posted by e.j.:
I'm probably going to be the odd man out on this but if it were my newly 2 year old dcb, I think I'd encourage him to do things for himself but expect to still help him a lot - especially if his parents aren't working on independence skills at home. He's still on the young side so I don't think I'd let it get to the point where he'd be sobbing and missing snack with his friends. (I honestly don't mean that as a criticism; just saying I'd do things differently.) If he were older and I knew he was capable, I might feel different about it.
These are my thoughts too. I even help 2 1/2 yr olds. Self - help quickly comes enough and I don't worry about it. Just not a problem for me. Now if the child is three I uncourage a whole lot more independence and self-help.
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momofsix 08:43 PM 12-02-2017
Originally Posted by e.j.:
I'm probably going to be the odd man out on this but if it were my newly 2 year old dcb, I think I'd encourage him to do things for himself but expect to still help him a lot - especially if his parents aren't working on independence skills at home. He's still on the young side so I don't think I'd let it get to the point where he'd be sobbing and missing snack with his friends. (I honestly don't mean that as a criticism; just saying I'd do things differently.) If he were older and I knew he was capable, I might feel different about it.
Originally Posted by mamamanda:
Yes, I agree as well. Little steps at a time & a lot of encouragement. I think we as child care professionals often see a child's potential & that is wonderful, but I think we also need to meet them where they're at. If mom & dad aren't encouraging it at home it will take time. Plus personality plays a role too. My six year old still tries to get me to help him with everything. My 18 mo & 3 yo love doing anything & everything by themselves. Different personalities. Personally, I've been there with a 3 yo dcg who refused to put on slip on shoes by herself & I let her sit & cry through all of outdoor play time several days in a row until she finally did it. If I were doing it over though, I would have expected her to work on it, but I would have"helped" her, not done it for her. We just don't know where these kids are coming from or why they feel incompetent in certain areas. It also isn't good for me or the other kids in care to hear that much crying. Lord knows I about joined her by day 3.
I absolutely agree with both of you.
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hwichlaz 09:06 AM 12-04-2017
I laid his pants on his legs right side out and in the correct orientation and asked him to slide his legs in. I wasn't expecting him to put them on all by himself, just stick his legs in. When I help him, he won't even push his feet in. It's exactly like dressing a rag doll. He doesn't push his arms into his sleeves or anything. If I see him making any effort at all I'd absolutely do little bits to help his progress...he just....won't.

I just want to see a bit of "try".
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hwichlaz 09:11 AM 12-04-2017
He's the first 2 year old I've ever had that would leave his shoes and socks on all day. He won't even try to remove them. Usually, but a year old you can't get them to leave them ON.
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TheMisplacedMidwestMom 10:55 AM 12-04-2017
Originally Posted by hwichlaz:
He's the first 2 year old I've ever had that would leave his shoes and socks on all day. He won't even try to remove them. Usually, but a year old you can't get them to leave them ON.
With mine I KNEW he could do the things I was asking because he would do it at other times, but would "need" help when the task was expected. If that makes sense. For example we were outside one day and he took his mittens off no less than three times (they did not fall off, I watched him remove them). When we came inside he was suddenly unable take them off because they were "too heavy".
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Mom2Two 11:12 AM 12-04-2017
Originally Posted by hwichlaz:
I laid his pants on his legs right side out and in the correct orientation and asked him to slide his legs in. I wasn't expecting him to put them on all by himself, just stick his legs in. When I help him, he won't even push his feet in. It's exactly like dressing a rag doll. He doesn't push his arms into his sleeves or anything. If I see him making any effort at all I'd absolutely do little bits to help his progress...he just....won't.

I just want to see a bit of "try".
What does mom say? Does he "help" push arms in at home? It is a developmental self-help milestone to help push arms and legs in. It's like a one yo milestone. The sixteen mth old here does it. I'll have to see if I can find my early LEAP list.
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Ariana 02:01 PM 12-04-2017
Originally Posted by hwichlaz:
He's the first 2 year old I've ever had that would leave his shoes and socks on all day. He won't even try to remove them. Usually, but a year old you can't get them to leave them ON.
I had this kid but luckily he is gone. The only way I can explain it is to say that this kid will not exactly be a rocket scientist when he grows up. Some kids are just “simple” and out in lalaland if you know what I mean . The parents are likely doing everything for him but I know 2 year olds that won’t even allow you to help them!!

I am really trying not to be rude but are the parents “simple”? That might give you a clue!
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Mom2Two 02:44 PM 12-04-2017
Originally Posted by Ariana:
I had this kid but luckily he is gone. The only way I can explain it is to say that this kid will not exactly be a rocket scientist when he grows up. Some kids are just “simple” and out in lalaland if you know what I mean . The parents are likely doing everything for him but I know 2 year olds that won’t even allow you to help them!!

I am really trying not to be rude but are the parents “simple”? That might give you a clue!
It might be this, or he might have delays in some areas but not others.
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Mom2Two 03:23 PM 12-04-2017
Here is a scan of an assessment record, so you can look at other self-help milestones for dressing.

How do threads get tagged? This one has "needy" but it's very possible that this is "developmental delays."

I'm getting an error on the upload, I'll try again soon.
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Mom2Two 04:16 PM 12-04-2017
Here's a link from a hospital website:
https://www.luriechildrens.org/en-us...re-skills.aspx

And the jpg below is from an assessment form that I kept from DD's EI days.
Attached: HELP Self-help Dressing.JPG (524.5 KB) 
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