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Daycare Center and Family Home Forum>DCP Who Is 4 Weeks In Now Says That Her 2yo Seems Sensitive To Gluten And Dairy
trix23 11:42 AM 06-06-2017
The kid is easy. I can accommodate vegetarians but vegans by allergy is hard for me.... and gluten? Oy.

I don't serve dairy too often, bit it's often enough that it would be an issue.

I'm thinking of telling them that I need actual allergy testing done to confirm and that if so, they will need to supply food for him while here (I make all food) or that their rate will be going up to accommodate his food needs.

Input?
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Ariana 11:49 AM 06-06-2017
I have two kids who are sensitive to gluten and dairy and it doesn't show up on allergy tests unfortunately. Only true allergies show up. Sensitivities are a reaction that is not life threatening like stomach upset, eczema or rashes (what my kids experience).

I would ask that they provide the food they need as you cannot purchase those items or increase their rate so that you can purchase the items (which cost considerably more than normal products). I am a milk free home so parents who want their kids to drink milk purchase it for them. To me this is the same type of situation.
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EntropyControlSpecialist 12:37 PM 06-06-2017
Originally Posted by Ariana:
I have two kids who are sensitive to gluten and dairy and it doesn't show up on allergy tests unfortunately. Only true allergies show up. Sensitivities are a reaction that is not life threatening like stomach upset, eczema or rashes (what my kids experience).

I would ask that they provide the food they need as you cannot purchase those items or increase their rate so that you can purchase the items (which cost considerably more than normal products). I am a milk free home so parents who want their kids to drink milk purchase it for them. To me this is the same type of situation.
Yes, this is a great route to go.

I am gluten free (Celiac Disease) as is my daughter (she has the gene for Celiac Disease but no formal testing done as it would be pointless since she has always been gluten free). Many people are gluten intolerant, which is different than having Celiac Disease. I wouldn't be surprised if she is correct.

I'm on the food program and it isn't legal, from what I recall, to charge a higher rate for dietary differences. Having them provide ALL food, so it isn't cross contaminated and the extra expense is on them, would be the easiest route to take.
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trix23 08:06 PM 06-06-2017
She just asked to omit egg noodles for tomorrow's lunch and the homemade bagel pizza snack for Thursday....

Should I omit when it's easy or just tell them that they'll need to bring a lunch/snack that day? Or every day?
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childcaremom 03:09 AM 06-07-2017
Originally Posted by EntropyControlSpecialist:
Yes, this is a great route to go.

I am gluten free (Celiac Disease) as is my daughter (she has the gene for Celiac Disease but no formal testing done as it would be pointless since she has always been gluten free). Many people are gluten intolerant, which is different than having Celiac Disease. I wouldn't be surprised if she is correct.

I'm on the food program and it isn't legal, from what I recall, to charge a higher rate for dietary differences. Having them provide ALL food, so it isn't cross contaminated and the extra expense is on them, would be the easiest route to take.
Same. I do not provide allergen free meals/special diet meals. If families want/need something different than what is offered then they need to provide it. I do not charge extra but do not charge less.
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daycare 04:36 AM 06-07-2017
Are you on the food program ?
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EntropyControlSpecialist 05:28 AM 06-07-2017
Originally Posted by trix23:
She just asked to omit egg noodles for tomorrow's lunch and the homemade bagel pizza snack for Thursday....

Should I omit when it's easy or just tell them that they'll need to bring a lunch/snack that day? Or every day?
I would provide her with the week's menu. If she wishes to substitute something in place of something else then she is welcome to bring it and do so. But, she cannot substitute an apple for the egg noodles. She would have to substitute another GRAIN for that grain and another GRAIN for the pizza snack grain. I'd have extra bananas/baby carrots on hand as the second part of the snack on days she is replacing a grain product and you're doing something that combines two things (like a pizza bagel).
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trix23 06:29 AM 06-07-2017
She texted this morning that I seem to make pasta a lot..... I do it maybe once or twice a week with tons of veggies. It's not like I'm serving Mac n cheese for lunch. Last week i made pasta primavera (mushrooms, onions, tomatoes, spinach, Alfredo sauce, pasta). And this week I'm making a vegetarian chili mac.
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Leigh 06:39 AM 06-07-2017
Originally Posted by trix23:
She texted this morning that I seem to make pasta a lot..... I do it maybe once or twice a week with tons of veggies. It's not like I'm serving Mac n cheese for lunch. Last week i made pasta primavera (mushrooms, onions, tomatoes, spinach, Alfredo sauce, pasta). And this week I'm making a vegetarian chili mac.
Because kids love pasta? Are you on the food program? If so, I'd ask her to fill out a special diet form that tells you what foods to eliminate and which ones to replace them with. If not, I'd just have her provide lunches every day. I'm not saying that these sensitivities don't exist, but I wouldn't let a parent diagnose them on their own. I'd insist on a doctor's statement.
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trix23 06:53 AM 06-07-2017
Yesterday she submitted a doctor's statement. And I'm ok with it but I'm not going to be substituting GF and dairy-free then vegetarian for another (i mostly make vegetarian anyway so this one I don't mind).
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trix23 06:54 AM 06-07-2017
I'm not on the food program but I'm a registered daycare in Florida.
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Blackcat31 07:12 AM 06-07-2017
Originally Posted by trix23:
Yesterday she submitted a doctor's statement. And I'm ok with it but I'm not going to be substituting GF and dairy-free then vegetarian for another (i mostly make vegetarian anyway so this one I don't mind).
I would insist she supply ALL food and drink.
Provide her with food group requirement so you don't end up with a kid that gets a pudding cup and a cheese stick only for lunch.

Set some guidelines saying all meals and snacks must be provided and they must meet the food pyramid guidelines and include foods from each food group (she can substitute X for Y if her child can't have one or the other)

Seems like the easiest route to go in my opinion.
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trix23 07:38 AM 06-07-2017
Whay exactly would you say?
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Leigh 07:49 AM 06-07-2017
Originally Posted by trix23:
Yesterday she submitted a doctor's statement. And I'm ok with it but I'm not going to be substituting GF and dairy-free then vegetarian for another (i mostly make vegetarian anyway so this one I don't mind).
Gluten, dairy, and meat free? I'd probably just ask her to provide meals!
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Blackcat31 09:03 AM 06-07-2017
Originally Posted by trix23:
Whay exactly would you say?

I would just be upfront and open about it. Special diets are too expense and time consuming for you to manage while providing your normal array of services.

"DCM, I am unable to accommodate special diets without added costs so you will need to supply all foods for both meals and snacks. This is the only way I am able to ensure DCG is provided with the foods she needs due to her sensitivities."
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Ariana 10:34 AM 06-07-2017
Originally Posted by trix23:
Whay exactly would you say?
Hi DCM,
Due to the recent change in DCG diet I am requesting that you provide all meals. Unfortunately it is not feasable to provide an alternative meal for every meal served here so this will be the only way for me to accommodate DCG's dietary needs. I can provide a food program guide (or whatever) to make sure DCG gets the requirements under the food guidelines set forth by the state. I can also provide a weekly meal plan so you can use what we are having each day as a guide. Hopefully this works for you, let me know if you have any questions or concerns,
Trix
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trix23 12:16 PM 06-07-2017
I said:
"hings get complicated with all that and I don't want to be spending more time in the kitchen than needed. Plus there's also the issue of cross-contamination.

I do not provide allergen-free meals/special diet meals. If families want/need something different than what is offered then they need to provide it.

Had we all known he was sensitive to gluten and dairy at the tour, I would've mentioned this at that time.

I cannot accommodate a gluten and dairy sensitivity or allergy with the food I make. I would've discussed that at the tour if it had been brought up.

Here at daycare, we do things as a group and special treatment or special diets are not something that I am willing to do. I make mostly vegetarian stuff because kids generally don't like meat anyway and it lets them get more nutrients that way."



She said:
"I totally understand but he never had oral
responses to these foods before which is why it wasn't brought up at the tour.

If you could provide the menu by Saturday or Sunday so I can prepare and bring food when needed we will see how it works out. Thank you."

At what point do i say "this is how it will be or you're termed"? Lol. This is the mom that had a nanny for like 2 years....
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Blackcat31 12:25 PM 06-07-2017
Originally Posted by trix23:
I said:
"hings get complicated with all that and I don't want to be spending more time in the kitchen than needed. Plus there's also the issue of cross-contamination.

I do not provide allergen-free meals/special diet meals. If families want/need something different than what is offered then they need to provide it.

Had we all known he was sensitive to gluten and dairy at the tour, I would've mentioned this at that time.

I cannot accommodate a gluten and dairy sensitivity or allergy with the food I make. I would've discussed that at the tour if it had been brought up.

Here at daycare, we do things as a group and special treatment or special diets are not something that I am willing to do. I make mostly vegetarian stuff because kids generally don't like meat anyway and it lets them get more nutrients that way."



She said:
"I totally understand but he never had oral
responses to these foods before which is why it wasn't brought up at the tour.

If you could provide the menu by Saturday or Sunday so I can prepare and bring food when needed we will see how it works out. Thank you."

At what point do i say "this is how it will be or you're termed"? Lol. This is the mom that had a nanny for like 2 years....
...at this point. now.

Either she supplies ALL the food or you do but I would not allow her to pre-view the menu and then pick and choose which days she substitutes.

I'd go with;

Dear DCM

Unfortunately, I am unable to accommodate a combined effort of providing both meals/snacks and a menu so that substitutes can be made when deemed necessary.

At this point, the only options I am willing to offer are either I provide all meals and snacks or you can choose to do so but I am unable to accommodate a combination of the two without added work/effort on my part.

As a busy working parent I am sure you understand. Thank you for your consideration in this matter.

Trix

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Blackcat31 12:26 PM 06-07-2017
Originally Posted by trix23:

She said:
"I totally understand but he never had oral
responses to these foods before
which is why it wasn't brought up at the tour.
I don't get what she means by that?

Oral responses? Is he not liking certain food so she is interpreting that as gluten sensitivities?
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trix23 12:34 PM 06-07-2017
No idea. But he's had a bit of a diaper rash lately that the doc says is from gluten and dairy sensitivities. But he just bad a bday party and prob had cake and etc that wasn't his usual stuff
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trix23 12:40 PM 06-07-2017
Would you send that over text, email, or write/type it on paper?
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Blackcat31 12:44 PM 06-07-2017
Originally Posted by trix23:
Would you send that over text, email, or write/type it on paper?
I'd e-mail it. If that is how your recent convo was done.

Just reply back that "parent provided meals" or "provided provided meals" was the only option you were offering her.
A combination of the two is not something you can do.

I prefer e-mail as it provides a time/date for documentation purposes.
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trix23 12:47 PM 06-07-2017
We've been texting but I think email is more formal and more appropriate for this instance. Thank you for your help!
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trix23 12:50 PM 06-07-2017
Additional question: breakfast is at 9am-9:30am. At what point is a child unable to have breakfast upon arrival (like 9:10am, etc). Same mom wants to bring him tomorrow at 9:15 And still eat.... oy
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Blackcat31 01:06 PM 06-07-2017
Originally Posted by trix23:
Additional question: breakfast is at 9am-9:30am. At what point is a child unable to have breakfast upon arrival (like 9:10am, etc). Same mom wants to bring him tomorrow at 9:15 And still eat.... oy
My rule for meals is the child MUST arrive, be checked in and ready to participate in the meal a MINIMUM of 15 minutes prior to the designated meal time.

For example I serve a morning snack at 9AM. If a child needs/wants to eat that snack they must be here NO later than 8:45.

I do this for several reasons....

I don't mind when parents drop off while I am in the middle of an activity (meals and snacks included) but their child doesn't usually get to participate in that activity though since a good portion of each activity is not just the "doing" part but the before and after routine as well. (there are exceptions I am sure but generally speaking)

I would let her know that if she wants him to have breakfast there (your house) she needs to arrive PRIOR to serving time. Otherwise she can feed child on her time.


I have a feeling this one is going to be a thorn in your side.

Can I ask why she no longer has a nanny? (it appears that she still thinks she does or she feels group child care and nannying operate the same way) Oye!
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trix23 01:32 PM 06-07-2017
I think her nanny got tired of it, lol. Oddly enough, the nanny has a kid and they come to me for drop-in care. She's training to be a doula, though I think it was a safe way for her to exit the nanny job. I love the one that was the nanny. Had a bad feeling about the one that hired a nanny but I tried it out. Lesson learned! And I've been firm on policies so far too.
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CityGarden 01:39 PM 06-07-2017
Originally Posted by trix23:
At what point do i say "this is how it will be or you're termed"? Lol. This is the mom that had a nanny for like 2 years....
I agree you should say it now if that is how you feel but honestly the tone it appears you are taking in regards to this intolerance feels like you just don't want them there. Is this really about the food or something bigger? My heart breaks when allergy kids get the short end of the stick without a fighting chance for something they had no control of.

It seems the mom was trying to work with you.... she said she is going to try bringing all the child's food.

One local preschool has the following policy:
Any student who provides the school with an epi pen to counteract the ingestion of a food allergen must bring his/her own snack each day to school. We will not give the student any food items. Should you desire, a copy of the snack menu will be sent home so that you can bring in foods similar to what is being offered.

I agree you should not need to make it a burden on you but the mom providing all food reduces that. If I recall correctly you have spots to fill and need the income so why rush to terminate and blame the allergy/intolerance? Know when established providers like Black Cat for example suggest termination they are deeply established often with a waitlist that can replace that person the next day, I also find they are very gracious and accommodating so long as it does not put a burden on themselves. It seems to me they have a great balance of truly caring for the children in their care while setting boundaries that display respect for themselves as business owners. Black Cat doesn't have to terminate someone for something trivial she instead sets clear boundaries. For example her suggested response to the DCM:

"DCM, I am unable to accommodate special diets without added costs so you will need to supply all foods for both meals and snacks. This is the only way I am able to ensure DCG is provided with the foods she needs due to her sensitivities."

This response was direct and provided a solution that worked for BlackCat the ball is now in mom's court she can either provide all food or provide notice.

It could be possible the intolerance is real --- my dd has a horrible reaction to dairy, it triggers her eczema and she would itch to the point of blood and a full blown peanut allergy..... we have never had a problem with a school or care provider - either the school required a note from the doctor and made the substitutions (they were on some sort of food program) or I provided all her food. I will add as a parent of an allergy kid ---- I did not ask for this, my child did not ask for this and I would not wish it on my enemy. When we go to a friend's house and they extend dinner of fried fish to us I am not being elitist to ask if they used peanut oil to fry it in ---- I am trying to ensure my child lives. When I rush and offer to bring in popsicles for the year end class party to try and beat someone to the punch who wants to bring ice cream cups or something with heavy dairy I am not bringing my daughter's favorite (she would rather have the ice cream cup ) I am trying to maintain her quality of life so she is not paying the price later itching until she bleeds. Also I live in Southern California where it seems everyone has some sort of allergy or personal family diet :roll eyes: ---- if I did not accept children with allergies or food limitations I would have no clients, it is one of many reasons I require them to provide their own lunches. To date, them providing their own lunches has been one of my best business decisions!!!

BC - Not attacking you, I deeply respect you just using an example of an established provider and you were active on this thread
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mommyneedsadayoff 01:52 PM 06-07-2017
What did the doc note say? It is a sensitivity or an actual tested and confirmed allergy? That is a big difference. Many parents use sensitivities to sway providers to change the menu or give their kid something they prefer. From what you have posted, it sounds like mom doesn't like your meal plan (she would hate mine if too much pasta actually exists) and wants you to make an exception for her kid. You will find out the truth if you have her provide all meals and snacks. What they pack for their kid to eat will tell you just how serious that "allergy" really is.
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trix23 01:54 PM 06-07-2017
This same mom asked me today to put her son's hair up to keep it out of his face. I'm thinking "um no." I texted back earlier:
"children need to arrive dressed in a fresh diaper, clean clothes, socks, shoes, and be recently bathed with clean hair. Hairdos are a parent responsibility."
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CityGarden 01:58 PM 06-07-2017
Originally Posted by trix23:
Additional question: breakfast is at 9am-9:30am. At what point is a child unable to have breakfast upon arrival (like 9:10am, etc). Same mom wants to bring him tomorrow at 9:15 And still eat.... oy
My dd's preschool asked everyone to drop off by AM snack (which was breakfast). They made enough for all the children enrolled, if the child arrived in the middle of snack they would sit and join in IF they arrive as snack was being cleaned up they ate alone while the other children were dismissed to play. IF they arrived after snack they had nothing until lunch time.

I make all my snacks ahead of time so I have enough for all the children enrolled but I do not serve my AM snack until after my "drop off window" ...... I find that to be one benefit to having the drop off window. If a child is going to be dropped off after the window parents tend to let me know AND I remind them to feed their child prior.
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trix23 02:01 PM 06-07-2017
She said that she will look over my menu then bring in replacements as needed. She did not agree to supply all food, though that was what i was telling her.

I am not discriminating against an allergy. I don't know how serious it is if she says she "doesn't mind cross-contamination" as she said to me earlier today. It's a sensitivity but I don't think it was formally tested.

Either way, she has 2 options:
1) i provide all food or
2) she provides all food.

If she doesn't want either option, then I'm terming.
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CityGarden 02:02 PM 06-07-2017
Originally Posted by trix23:
This same mom asked me today to put her son's hair up to keep it out of his face. I'm thinking "um no." I texted back earlier:
"children need to arrive dressed in a fresh diaper, clean clothes, socks, shoes, and be recently bathed with clean hair. Hairdos are a parent responsibility."
I do have in my handbook children need to be dressed and ready for the day upon arrival. Initially I thought do I really need that line in a handbook but sadly the answer is YES!!! That said just yesterday I had a little girl stay for her first full day and she sleeps so crazy her hair was everywhere so I asked mom to supply a small brush for me to tidy her hair after nap time.
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mommyneedsadayoff 02:03 PM 06-07-2017
Originally Posted by trix23:
She said that she will look over my menu then bring in replacements as needed. She did not agree to supply all food, though that was what i was telling her.

I am not discriminating against an allergy. I don't know how serious it is if she says she "doesn't mind cross-contamination" as she said to me earlier today. It's a sensitivity but I don't think it was formally tested.

Either way, she has 2 options:
1) i provide all food or
2) she provides all food.

If she doesn't want either option, then I'm terming.
Without knowing all the details, I would say this is a CONTROL issue and you are probably better off terminating care.
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trix23 02:20 PM 06-07-2017
I'm writing them an email tonight and will be explaining in a professional manner that I am a home daycare provider and that them signing on with me means they agree to follow my polices and agree to them. If they want the say with everything, they may need to hire a nanny. Since I'm self -employed, parents do not dictate my polices or get exceptions.
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CityGarden 02:21 PM 06-07-2017
Originally Posted by trix23:
She said that she will look over my menu then bring in replacements as needed. She did not agree to supply all food, though that was what i was telling her.

I am not discriminating against an allergy. I don't know how serious it is if she says she "doesn't mind cross-contamination" as she said to me earlier today. It's a sensitivity but I don't think it was formally tested.

Either way, she has 2 options:
1) i provide all food or
2) she provides all food.

If she doesn't want either option, then I'm terming.

Yes I agree it is all or nothing. You cannot budget and plan any other way.

Originally Posted by mommyneedsadayoff:
What did the doc note say? It is a sensitivity or an actual tested and confirmed allergy? That is a big difference. Many parents use sensitivities to sway providers to change the menu or give their kid something they prefer. From what you have posted, it sounds like mom doesn't like your meal plan (she would hate mine if too much pasta actually exists) and wants you to make an exception for her kid. You will find out the truth if you have her provide all meals and snacks. What they pack for their kid to eat will tell you just how serious that "allergy" really is.
The bold I 100% agree with.

I know my dd's pediatrician did not feel okay with doing the whole allergy testing until dd was around 7-years old. (I can't recall the actual age) When she was 2 months and bloody from eczema they noted her chart based on symptoms before and after an elimination diet which meant I had to eliminate diary..... since she was exclusively breast fed at the time. In my experience parents of true allergy kids will happily provide food for their child because the alternative impacts either their child's health life vs. death or their quality of life so much it's a burden. In the first preschool I was happy to provide dd's milk and the director there was okay with me just making substitutions for the days the menu conflicted BUT that 3-hours a day preschool only served snack so it was like 1-3 times per month.

I was not trying to sway the menu and I did try my best to match anything they offered so dd did not feel excluded --- now that she is older I don't have to be as sensitive but sometimes she still feels excluded. She couldn't sit by her BFF at lunch because BFF's mom packed PB&J each day this went on without me knowing until BFF's mom said her dd asked for sunflower butter so she could stay by my dd. The allergy table is a lonely place so parents of children with those allergies will happily bring food (and often even extra food to share). It's sad so many people will lie and say they have an allergy when they just don't like something it makes the road harder for those with real allergies.
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trix23 02:59 PM 06-07-2017
Yeah, and I was forward with them at the interview/tour about me serving gluten and dairy but in moderation (she mentioned that they avoid these things at home)
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nannyde 03:12 PM 06-07-2017
Can you say exactly what the doc note said?
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trix23 03:24 PM 06-07-2017
Diaper dermatitis:
Keep diaper area dry, clean, and aerated. Frequent diaper changes are essential; every 1-2 hours is recommended, less during the night is acceptable. Cleanse the area well with water at every diaper change and use mild soap, rinsing well following a stool. Annoys vigorous cleansing as this can worsen matters.
Use a greasy lubricant if skin is dry.
Use a protective barrier ointment cream such as Desitin, cod liver oil with zinc oxide, A&D ointment, aquaphor, petroleum, or zinc oxide
Leave diaper off for limited time to encourage air flow and lessen heat/moisturecto area
Increase fluids to dilute urine

Diet: increase fluids and decrease acidity level. No dairy, no gluten, decrease sugar content.I
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LysesKids 03:47 PM 06-07-2017
Originally Posted by CityGarden:
My heart breaks when allergy kids get the short end of the stick without a fighting chance for something they had no control of.

It seems the mom was trying to work with you.... she said she is going to try bringing all the child's food.

...Black Cat doesn't have to terminate someone for something trivial she instead sets clear boundaries. For example her suggested response to the DCM:

"DCM, I am unable to accommodate special diets without added costs so you will need to supply all foods for both meals and snacks. This is the only way I am able to ensure DCG is provided with the foods she needs due to her sensitivities."

This response was direct and provided a solution that worked for BlackCat the ball is now in mom's court she can either provide all food or provide notice.

It could be possible the intolerance is real --- my dd has a horrible reaction to dairy, it triggers her eczema and she would itch to the point of blood and a full blown peanut allergy..... we have never had a problem with a school or care provider - either the school required a note from the doctor and made the substitutions (they were on some sort of food program) or I provided all her food. I will add as a parent of an allergy kid ---- I did not ask for this, my child did not ask for this and I would not wish it on my enemy. When we go to a friend's house and they extend dinner of fried fish to us I am not being elitist to ask if they used peanut oil to fry it in ---- I am trying to ensure my child lives. When I rush and offer to bring in popsicles for the year end class party to try and beat someone to the punch who wants to bring ice cream cups or something with heavy dairy I am not bringing my daughter's favorite (she would rather have the ice cream cup ) I am trying to maintain her quality of life so she is not paying the price later itching until she bleeds. Also I live in Southern California where it seems everyone has some sort of allergy or personal family diet :roll eyes: ---- if I did not accept children with allergies or food limitations I would have no clients, it is one of many reasons I require them to provide their own lunches. To date, them providing their own lunches has been one of my best business decisions!!!...
I get this... I have my own food allergies & have a Gluten intolerance due to Hashimoto's disease. I take kids with most food allergies; the exception is Peanuts - why? I use a lot of nut flours (can sometimes cause cross allergy issues) because I can't use regular flour & I care for a few Celiac kids that also can't have Soy (Foster babes), not just dairy. I explain this very clearly on my website and in the written policies.

I understand what it's like to have to avoid certain things and my menu is done in such a way that I know I can offer this this and this most days, but on Thursdays we use this menu. I have a child that was tested & it turned out some of her allergies were her most favorite fruit & veg (like 25 items inc Soy & dairy). Being my first client & now having baby brother in care 3 years later, I have it down to a science and not one instance of anyone having a problem lol. This is why I don't allow outside food at all except formula. A Parent might send something that can't be in the airspace of another child and then all he** breaks loose
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Ariana 03:59 PM 06-07-2017
I personally feel like you are being really rude to this mom! It seems like you have a lot of anger towards her for some odd reason. The kid was not sensitive at the tour so she didn't mention it. She said she was ok with providing food but your message to her was so vague and you were not clear about what you were willing to do....you seemed like you simply wanted to reiterate over and over how it was not brought up at the tour. I think had you been MUCH more clear and concise about what you were going to do (get her to provide all food) she would have responded differently.

Anyway just my 2 cents. There is backbone and then there is rude.
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trix23 04:11 PM 06-07-2017
What is rude about it? She is nitpicking every detail of my program. Fought me on letting her kid's cloth diapers leak as acceptable, wanted me to put sunscreen on him 2x/day, has asked for exceptions at every turn on polices, and now is wanting to go halfsies on food. It complicates things.

I have to be clear with her or she'll give pushback on polices.
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Blackcat31 04:30 PM 06-07-2017
I don't think anyone is being rude but I do think DCM asked for an inch and is slowly taking a mile.

To me, she is a classic case of "my child is special and I will use any and all opportunities to prove it"

I think OP is building her backbone (a work in progress) and learning as she goes. I've been there.

You waiver between permissive and rigid...until you find your groove.
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Ariana 04:44 PM 06-07-2017
Originally Posted by mommyneedsadayoff:
What did the doc note say? It is a sensitivity or an actual tested and confirmed allergy? That is a big difference. Many parents use sensitivities to sway providers to change the menu or give their kid something they prefer. From what you have posted, it sounds like mom doesn't like your meal plan (she would hate mine if too much pasta actually exists) and wants you to make an exception for her kid. You will find out the truth if you have her provide all meals and snacks. What they pack for their kid to eat will tell you just how serious that "allergy" really is.
I disagree! I think as a parent to intolerant kids myself I see it differently. I am paying someone to take care of my kid and now I have to provide all the food 5 days a week. I think as working moms we can all agree its tough to adjust to that. She likely wants the menu so she can replace as much as possible, so for example if you are having pizza and veggies, I could replace with my own pizza. Or if you are habing pasta I can bring cooked gluten free pasta etc. This way my kid isn't eating something different from the group as well.

When my eldest gets gluten she gets pain in her stomach. No clue why and it went on for a couple of years before I figured out she might have a gluten issue. We tried a gluten free diet and voila, her stomach issues and major gas and bloating went away. She is actually growing now! Both my girls are intolerant to dairy and they both get eczema if they have too much.
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Unregistered 04:49 PM 06-07-2017
She wants me to do gluten free and dairy free for her child and was demanding it. Then she said she wants to substitute based on my menu.

After touring she asked how old my couch and rug were in the playroom. And enrolled a month or so after touring after she told me she wanted to start right away. Tons of red flags but I was new and naive.
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Ariana 04:52 PM 06-07-2017
Originally Posted by Blackcat31:
I don't think anyone is being rude but I do think DCM asked for an inch and is slowly taking a mile.

To me, she is a classic case of "my child is special and I will use any and all opportunities to prove it"

I think OP is building her backbone (a work in progress) and learning as she goes. I've been there.

You waiver between permissive and rigid...until you find your groove.
I don't see it this way at all. I think the mom asked for a special diet and the OP could have simply said "here is what I can do for you" and let the chips fall as they may. Instead I felt she was vague and simply wanted to convey her anger at not being informed at the tour. Then mom answered equally as vague because the OP was not clear enough.

Clearly this mom has been pushing since the beginning which makes it clearer to me where the anger is coming from. I think OP you need to be SUPER clear with her on all of these issues and leave the anger out of it. Simply tell her what you can and cannot do. "The only way we can move forward on this issue is if you are able to provide all food, otherwise
I will need to issue you your two week notice of termination of contract". This is crystal clear as to what your intentions are and what you are expecting from her.

Can I say the word "clear" more?
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Ariana 04:56 PM 06-07-2017
Originally Posted by Unregistered:
She wants me to do gluten free and dairy free for her child and was demanding it. Then she said she wants to substitute based on my menu.

After touring she asked how old my couch and rug were in the playroom. And enrolled a month or so after touring after she told me she wanted to start right away. Tons of red flags but I was new and naive.
Those are two seperate issues though and I do understand more fully the frustration with her. If she is continually trying to change you and how you do things then definitely get rid of her. I was basing all of my answers on the original question and problem.
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hwichlaz 05:01 PM 06-07-2017
Only replacing certain things on certain days leaves too much room to forget as well....leaving you to either figure out what to do for that meal, or being the heavy and sending her back home for food.

It's easiest on every one if she just provides the food and doesn't bother trying to make it the same or similar.
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nannyde 05:01 PM 06-07-2017
Originally Posted by trix23:
Diaper dermatitis:
Keep diaper area dry, clean, and aerated. Frequent diaper changes are essential; every 1-2 hours is recommended, less during the night is acceptable. Cleanse the area well with water at every diaper change and use mild soap, rinsing well following a stool. Annoys vigorous cleansing as this can worsen matters.
Use a greasy lubricant if skin is dry.
Use a protective barrier ointment cream such as Desitin, cod liver oil with zinc oxide, A&D ointment, aquaphor, petroleum, or zinc oxide
Leave diaper off for limited time to encourage air flow and lessen heat/moisturecto area
Increase fluids to dilute urine

Diet: increase fluids and decrease acidity level. No dairy, no gluten, decrease sugar content.I

So does he still have a diaper rash? If the rash is gone then he should go back to regular diet.

If the doctor wants a standing order for a diet he needs to have testing to back it up. Otherwise it is just situational dependent.

I would ask for a release of information so that you can speak to the dr.

If a kid has diarrhea then we put them on the BRAT diet. Once the diarrhea subsides we put them on a regular diet.

What gives you the idea that this is meant to be a diet for anything but the diaper rash time?
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hwichlaz 05:04 PM 06-07-2017
Originally Posted by nannyde:
So does he still have a diaper rash? If the rash is gone then he should go back to regular diet.

If the doctor wants a standing order for a diet he needs to have testing to back it up. Otherwise it is just situational dependent.

I would ask for a release of information so that you can speak to the dr.

If a kid has diarrhea then we put them on the BRAT diet. Once the diarrhea subsides we put them on a regular diet.

What gives you the idea that this is meant to be a diet for anything but the diaper rash time?
Allergy testing innaccurate in young children. My own son had allergies, the doctor did a blood test because RAST testing is cruel to do to a toddler, and innacurrate in the very young. The blood tests are also not that accurate and tend to pop false positives, but gave us a place to start with an elimination diet.

The child has been dairy and gluten free at home...it's very likely he's become sensitive because of this...and starting daycare where he was given these things caused the rash. Mom probably doesn't want to slowly desensitize him because she wants him to remain dairy and gluten free.
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trix23 05:13 PM 06-07-2017
My point with the "notifying at tour" thing was that if she had told me that he was not to have dairy or gluten, I would've told her that he will either need special food daily or that they cannot enroll.
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trix23 05:19 PM 06-07-2017
And I know that parents are busy to be providing food 5 days a week. But I disclose all polices beforehand and if there's a known food sensitivity or allergy, I address it. From there, they decide if they want to enroll or not. I'm not forcing them to sign on with me!

They make an informed decision. Don't be mad when I enforce my policies!
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hwichlaz 05:21 PM 06-07-2017
Originally Posted by trix23:
And I know that parents are busy to be providing food 5 days a week. But I disclose all polices beforehand and if there's a known food sensitivity or allergy, I address it. From there, they decide if they want to enroll or not. I'm not forcing them to sign on with me!

They make an informed decision. Don't be mad when I enforce my policies!
She's going to have to do it when he starts school anyway. May as well get used to it now.
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nannyde 05:56 PM 06-07-2017
Originally Posted by hwichlaz:
Allergy testing innaccurate in young children. My own son had allergies, the doctor did a blood test because RAST testing is cruel to do to a toddler, and innacurrate in the very young. The blood tests are also not that accurate and tend to pop false positives, but gave us a place to start with an elimination diet.

The child has been dairy and gluten free at home...it's very likely he's become sensitive because of this...and starting daycare where he was given these things caused the rash. Mom probably doesn't want to slowly desensitize him because she wants him to remain dairy and gluten free.
I haven't heard of allergy testing being categorically inaccurate. Do you have any current research you have read to state this?

If he was on a special diet before entering daycare the provider should have been told before interviewing... on first phone call.
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hwichlaz 06:05 PM 06-07-2017
Originally Posted by nannyde:
I haven't heard of allergy testing being categorically inaccurate. Do you have any current research you have read to state this?

If he was on a special diet before entering daycare the provider should have been told before interviewing... on first phone call.
She was told that he was dairy and gluten free at home. But if he'd never had those things, how would they know he was sensitive to them? Makes total sense.

No I didn't research it, I trusted our pediatric pulmonologist's word. It's been 15 years, but that was what the experts were saying back then. A quick google search just now is confirming that false positives are an issue though.
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CityGarden 06:06 PM 06-07-2017
Originally Posted by trix23:
And I know that parents are busy to be providing food 5 days a week. But I disclose all polices beforehand and if there's a known food sensitivity or allergy, I address it. From there, they decide if they want to enroll or not. I'm not forcing them to sign on with me!

They make an informed decision. Don't be mad when I enforce my policies!
Originally Posted by hwichlaz:
She's going to have to do it when he starts school anyway. May as well get used to it now.
Again I repeat if the child truly has an intolerance or allergy that justify the child having a special diet the parent will make time. I do not know a single allergy parent that wouldn't.

All my clients pack a lunch for their children each day..... 1/2 of them work full time.
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nannyde 06:22 PM 06-07-2017
Originally Posted by hwichlaz:
She was told that he was dairy and gluten free at home. But if he'd never had those things, how would they know he was sensitive to them? Makes total sense.

No I didn't research it, I trusted our pediatric pulmonologist's word. It's been 15 years, but that was what the experts were saying back then. A quick google search just now is confirming that false positives are an issue though.
Where did the op say that the mom said he was gluten free and dairy free before enrollment? I can't find that.
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Unregistered 06:22 PM 06-07-2017
Originally Posted by CityGarden:
Again I repeat if the child truly has an intolerance or allergy that justify the child having a special diet the parent will make time. I do not know a single allergy parent that wouldn't.
And that too. If a parent makes an allergy/sensitivity demand and is ok with some of it but not all, that's odd to me.
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hwichlaz 06:29 PM 06-07-2017
Originally Posted by nannyde:
Where did the op say that the mom said he was gluten free and dairy free before enrollment? I can't find that.
In one of her posts she states that the mom mentioned that they were gluten and dairy free themselves. It's not in the first post. But then the OP explained that her daycare was not gluten or dairy free and the mom seemed okay with that.
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hwichlaz 06:29 PM 06-07-2017
Originally Posted by trix23:
Yeah, and I was forward with them at the interview/tour about me serving gluten and dairy but in moderation (she mentioned that they avoid these things at home)
here it is
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childcaremom 06:36 PM 06-07-2017
I get where you are coming from, Trix. If it had been brought up during the tour, you could have told her right then and there that she would have needed to send foods. She didn't. Now it's coming up and you are dealing with it.

Dcm, it is my policy that if there are allergies or food sensitivities that parents must provide ALL snacks and food. No exceptions.

If she pushes: Dcm, that is my policy. I understand if that does not work for you and you need to find other care. Please remember I need 2 weeks notice.

If she continues to push...

After careful review, I no longer feel that my program is able to meet your needs. The last day I am able to provide care is.....

(and this is why I don't accept families who have used nannies)
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nannyde 07:02 PM 06-07-2017
Originally Posted by hwichlaz:
here it is
Ok thank you
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trix23 07:02 PM 06-07-2017
Yes, I'm making that a question on my questionnaire now. Lol
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trix23 07:09 PM 06-07-2017
Nannyde, I told her that I serve dairy and gluten but not in excess. I even gave her a sample menu that was from a month or so prior. No issues until recently with food and he's been here 4 weeks for 3x/week.

He just had a bday last week and grandma was in town and last week he didn't seem himself. Kinda spacey and tired.
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trix23 08:07 PM 06-07-2017
I texted them in the afternoon today that for mealtimes that they need to arrive 15 minutes beforehand to be able to eat and that it's effective immediately.

Then tonight they texted that their son can't get here til 9:15 and if he could eat here....
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mommyneedsadayoff 09:20 PM 06-07-2017
Originally Posted by Ariana:
I disagree! I think as a parent to intolerant kids myself I see it differently. I am paying someone to take care of my kid and now I have to provide all the food 5 days a week. I think as working moms we can all agree its tough to adjust to that. She likely wants the menu so she can replace as much as possible, so for example if you are having pizza and veggies, I could replace with my own pizza. Or if you are habing pasta I can bring cooked gluten free pasta etc. This way my kid isn't eating something different from the group as well.

When my eldest gets gluten she gets pain in her stomach. No clue why and it went on for a couple of years before I figured out she might have a gluten issue. We tried a gluten free diet and voila, her stomach issues and major gas and bloating went away. She is actually growing now! Both my girls are intolerant to dairy and they both get eczema if they have too much.
It is a slippery slope. I do not disagree that kids and adults can be sensitive to certain foods and when the mom said they avoid dairy and gluten at home, and the OP said she serves it, it was the perfect opportunity for mom to speak about special diets. She chose not to and to accept the terms of the menu provided by OP. You know how all the kids have "allergies" when it comes to being sick. Well, a lot of kids develop "sensitivities" when it comes to food they simply don't like. The OP said that mom said he has not had "oral sensitivities" to these foods before, yet they claim not to eat these foods at home. If they don't eat them at home, why would you sign up for a daycare that specifically says they serve them and then turn around and request special treatment once you see they are having issues with these foods. This, imo, is where a sensitivity and a true allergy meet the grey line. Which one is it?

IMO, if it is truly and issue, mom will have no problem supplying a full meal, as she fully accepted the terms of the OP's menu when she signed on and is now changing her tune. The burden is now on her.

(on a side note, if you don't want this family anymore, here is your chance to unload! )
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trix23 09:35 PM 06-07-2017
I need the money and their son and my 3 year old get along well, but I don't know how much longer I can be dealing with all this pushback on policies.

I'm just saying no to all special requests that go against the handbook and implementing new polices because of them. If they want to have a say in every detail of what i do, then they need to hire me as a nanny and pay me at least minimum wage ($8.10) = $230/week for the hours allotted for them.
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nannyde 03:50 AM 06-08-2017
I'm just not convinced the child has an allergy to gluten or milk.

I think there is a chance that the mom told the doctor and he wrote it down on the diaper rash instructions.

In the four weeks you had him, has he had any sign of being allergic to dairy or gluten?

What does she mean by oral reaction?

I would sit her down and say I need actual proof that he has an allergy or intolerance. I need testing results, testing date, and testing method used to determine allergy or "intolerance".

I think there is a very good chance the mom is just stating this at the doctor's office and the doctor is writing this in the notes. It's easier for the doctor to say "no this and that" than to expect testing before he/she writes it. It doesn't do HARM to eliminate them so the doc is off the hook responsibility wise.

Did you agree to provide menu's in advance? I have never done any menu's for parents to see. I just decide daily what I'm going to serve. I could show what they have had in the past but not what's going to happen in the future.

If you are not required by state regs to offer menu's in advance then don't do it. Just tell her you don't know what you are going to serve and to provide his full meals every day and you will be fine. Then you don't have to have a SINGLE discussion of what he was offered. Any uneaten bits will go back in his lunch bag. POOF... nothing to discuss.

I would HATE all this conferencing with the parent. It's expensive to give this much one to one to a parent. My time is valuable.

This idea that the parents don't have time to make lunch is SO SO SO SO SO ridiculous. She is spending SO much time talking to you about food... use THAT time to make him lunch. Feed him breakfast before daycare, bring lunch and snack and be done with it.

Stop the insanity. Until she provides ACTUAL PROOF that he has an allergy by way of ACTUAL testing then he is not considered disabled and is not covered by the disability act. You do not have to provide services based upon parents words.

Take hold of this and lay the law down. Tell her she needs to provide all food and drinks and feed him before daycare every day so you are just doing one meal. She can't bring breakfast for you to serve. He needs to eat at home so you are only managing one meal a day.

I betcha dollars to donuts that the lunch she brings doesn't meet the standards she is expecting of you. She can SO easily just send over for lunch what the family had for dinner the night before. This is easy and takes a few minutes.
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trix23 04:18 AM 06-08-2017
I definitely agree to the doctor thing. It seems to me that she just will find any way for me to do what she wants. I'm not going to bend over backwards for a family and if they expect that, they are in for a rude awakening. I'm going all out on lockdown mode for policy breaking with them.
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childcaremom 04:28 AM 06-08-2017
Originally Posted by nannyde:
I'm just not convinced the child has an allergy to gluten or milk.

I think there is a chance that the mom told the doctor and he wrote it down on the diaper rash instructions.

In the four weeks you had him, has he had any sign of being allergic to dairy or gluten?

What does she mean by oral reaction?

I would sit her down and say I need actual proof that he has an allergy or intolerance. I need testing results, testing date, and testing method used to determine allergy or "intolerance".

I think there is a very good chance the mom is just stating this at the doctor's office and the doctor is writing this in the notes. It's easier for the doctor to say "no this and that" than to expect testing before he/she writes it. It doesn't do HARM to eliminate them so the doc is off the hook responsibility wise.

Did you agree to provide menu's in advance? I have never done any menu's for parents to see. I just decide daily what I'm going to serve. I could show what they have had in the past but not what's going to happen in the future.

If you are not required by state regs to offer menu's in advance then don't do it. Just tell her you don't know what you are going to serve and to provide his full meals every day and you will be fine. Then you don't have to have a SINGLE discussion of what he was offered. Any uneaten bits will go back in his lunch bag. POOF... nothing to discuss.

I would HATE all this conferencing with the parent. It's expensive to give this much one to one to a parent. My time is valuable.

This idea that the parents don't have time to make lunch is SO SO SO SO SO ridiculous. She is spending SO much time talking to you about food... use THAT time to make him lunch. Feed him breakfast before daycare, bring lunch and snack and be done with it.

Stop the insanity. Until she provides ACTUAL PROOF that he has an allergy by way of ACTUAL testing then he is not considered disabled and is not covered by the disability act. You do not have to provide services based upon parents words.

Take hold of this and lay the law down. Tell her she needs to provide all food and drinks and feed him before daycare every day so you are just doing one meal. She can't bring breakfast for you to serve. He needs to eat at home so you are only managing one meal a day.

I betcha dollars to donuts that the lunch she brings doesn't meet the standards she is expecting of you. She can SO easily just send over for lunch what the family had for dinner the night before. This is easy and takes a few minutes.
Yes to all of this.

I have allergies. I take my food everywhere. I do not expect other people to know/understand/provide what I need. So I do it. I do the same for my children. I am a working mom. I have no problem feeding my 4 children breakfast. Packing snacks and lunches. And ensuring dinner gets made. This "no time" argument just doesn't hold weight with me, either.

This mom clearly does not understand group care. She is used to being able to tell someone what to do. You need to make it clear that you are not a nanny. It is group care. You do not provide separate meals. You will ensure that he is given what she sends for him. You cannot provide menus in advance. Therefore, if he has dietary requirements beyond what you provide, as the parent she is responsible for making sure that he gets what he needs. (I did the same. I do not provide menus. Anyone with dietary needs has all foods/snacks sent in from home. It reduces cross contamination AND ensures child is getting what they are supposed to (or what parent wants them to eat). I do not provide a discount if they send stuff in. Ever.

This really is a case where you need to train the parent. Just repeat your policies with a big smile.

Hi Dcm, if Joe is going to have breakfast sent in so he can eat with us, he needs to arrive by 8:45. Otherwise our next snack is at ....

Hi dcm, if Joe is now unable to have these foods, you will need to send in all of his snacks and meals each day. I'm sorry, I don't have room to store things here in my freezer/fridge/cupboard. Everything needs to come in daily. (Yes, been down that road, too)

Hi dcm, please remember that my policy is x so unfortunately I will not be able to accomodate that request.

Close the door and get on with the day. It can be done professionally and respectfully. Big smile. Fake it.

I would be looking to replace. You will either tire of this or she will.
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trix23 05:13 AM 06-08-2017
I like your wordage. Will be updating my Handbook accordingly and will be emailing the fanily tonight about policy changes and that they will need to provide food daily for their child beginning next week unless he has the "ok" to eat my meals and snacks and that per state regulations, I'm not required to send my upcoming menu to parents.
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trix23 06:32 AM 06-08-2017
At drop-off today I could tell DCM was fuming. She said that I really didn't give enough notice for the policy change for meals (told them yesterday afternoon) and that they feel I should've given more notice or mentioned it the first time. I told her that I wasn't sure how I felt about it because it's never happened before with a client and that I tried it out a 2-3 times for them then implemented the new policy. She seemed ok with that answer but still upset.

And the snack she packed for his afternoon snack is cucumbers and hummus -.- lolol
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Blackcat31 06:37 AM 06-08-2017
Originally Posted by trix23:
I texted them in the afternoon today that for mealtimes that they need to arrive 15 minutes beforehand to be able to eat and that it's effective immediately.

Then tonight they texted that their son can't get here til 9:15 and if he could eat here....
If you are able, PRIOR to arrival send DCM a text reminding her that Johnny needs to be AT daycare NO LATER than 8:45 if he will be having breakfast.

If he has not eaten and arrive after 8:45 turn him away.
Accepting a hungry child automatically makes YOU responsible for feeding him. You can't say mom didn't feed him IF you accept him into care.

Side note: If mom is going to supply the food, I can see her bringing the food AT 9:15 and insisting he eat then since you don't have to prepare the food etc ...

Honestly, at this point I think you need reiterate policies.
Maybe send her home a fresh copy of your handbook.
Instruct mom to READ it ENTIRELY and IF she agrees to the polices, sign and date and return.

If she does not agree to ALL policies (she doesn't get to pick and choose which ones she will follow and which ones she will edit...this is not Burger King )
Include something about how to terminate care so that she understand that is her option to utilize if she does not agree to your policies in their entirety.

When she returns the signed agreement, let her know that other than clarifying there will be NO MORE discussion.

Like Nan said the amount of conferencing that has already taken place is exhausting and so unnecessary.

It's becoming apparent that DCM enjoys this attention so it looks like the only way to stop it is to draw your line in the sand.

My handbook opens with:

Please remember that I, as a child care provider, own my business and offer services for a fee.

I set my own guidelines and policies and decide which services to offer.

You, as the parent, must decide if the services I offer meet your needs.

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trix23 06:57 AM 06-08-2017
My handbook states that if a child arrives after a mealtime that they will need to wait until the next snack or mealtime to eat and that parents need to feed them beforehand if they cannot make it to the meal/snack. Although i might implement your policy going forward.

I'm definitely sending the Handbook home with them today as will be making additions to it about polices being non-negotiable.
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nannyde 06:59 AM 06-08-2017
Originally Posted by trix23:
At drop-off today I could tell DCM was fuming. She said that I really didn't give enough notice for the policy change for meals (told them yesterday afternoon) and that they feel I should've given more notice or mentioned it the first time. I told her that I wasn't sure how I felt about it because it's never happened before with a client and that I tried it out a 2-3 times for them then implemented the new policy. She seemed ok with that answer but still upset.

And the snack she packed for his afternoon snack is cucumbers and hummus -.- lolol
You have to decide if you want the money or not. It's really that simple.

I do not believe you can come up with a plan that mitigates the food issues wherein she does what you want and you do SOME of the stuff. She's all in. Do what she wants and when she wants.

You compromising isn't any different than you saying no to everything. Her view of any compromise is the same as a no even though it may be a very fair compromise from your point of view.

Bottom line is she is going to pull, report you, slam you on social media if she isn't given what she wants. You have to decide if you are willing to loose the money AND accept her wrath. She has ALL the signs of a parent who will go to whatever extent to punish you for a no.

So either nut up and tell her no and take the financial hit and the onslaught of retaliation OR do what she says when she says exactly as she says.

I truly don't see any middle ground.

If this was really about food she would just provide all his food and be grateful you were willing to go to the extra work to manage a different meal and the passing of food back and forth.

My goal in this would be to get ANY conversation about food OFF the table... that means meal times and food. I would tell her I want xyz to happen from today on so that we NEVER have to discuss food again.

I understand you want the money and that fact is what may be getting you to try to get her to do as you want in a way that she accepts. You have to have the experience to really know that what she will accept is ONLY you doing as you are told. ANY... and I mean ANY... equivocation of that means the same thing as a complete and full NO.

So ... give her a complete no or do as she says.

I don't see any other way out of this.
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trix23 07:03 AM 06-08-2017
What would you say at drop-off to ask? "Has he eaten yet?" Then if "no", say, "I'm sorry, but he needs to arrive fed" then shut the door? Lol. What if she lies?

Sigh. Last night for about 4 hours I had a killer migraine from all this.
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trix23 07:10 AM 06-08-2017
I'm going to send the Handbook home and require it to be read and signed if in agreement. If not, then they cannot return next week. Iam not afraid of a bully or her. The issues that have come up were new to me so I wanted the chance to see how I felt about them before commenting or making a policy. That's what a professional does.

If she badmouths me on social media and etc then that's her gig. But if I see any of it, I will be stating that she refused to provide special meals for her child with allergies and knowingly violated polices numerous times. I'm letting the chips fall where they land. Cause at this point, I'm fed up.
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nannyde 07:11 AM 06-08-2017
Originally Posted by trix23:
What would you say at drop-off to ask? "Has he eaten yet?" Then if "no", say, "I'm sorry, but he needs to arrive fed" then shut the door? Lol. What if she lies?

Sigh. Last night for about 4 hours I had a killer migraine from all this.
when she texted and asked if he could eat at 9:30 did you reply with a no?
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trix23 07:17 AM 06-08-2017
It was the hubby in a group text with her. In response, I said

"This is my policy on mealtimes. Waking up earlier would make time available to make a quick breakfast for him.

I would make a cashew butter rollup sandwich with dry cereal for DS if I was in a hurry. Maybe you could make something like that, he could eat on the way."
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trix23 07:19 AM 06-08-2017
I also said (after they told me DCK wakes up at 8/8:15 and there isn't enough time to feed him and etc)

"Maybe need to wake him up a bit earlier. I remember I had to do that for Valen some days when he was going to a few different daycares.

So long as the meals are balanced and meet his dietary sensitivities, that's ok."
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hwichlaz 07:21 AM 06-08-2017
When you term, do it in written form, email a copy to your licensing rep with a note that you expect a tantrum.
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nannyde 07:28 AM 06-08-2017
Originally Posted by trix23:
I also said (after they told me DCK wakes up at 8/8:15 and there isn't enough time to feed him and etc)

"Maybe need to wake him up a bit earlier. I remember I had to do that for Valen some days when he was going to a few different daycares.

So long as the meals are balanced and meet his dietary sensitivities, that's ok."
I wouldn't ask if he ate. I would just accept him at the door and leave it. She's either going to say he ate, say she tried but he wouldn't eat, say he didn't eat, or wait and text you one of the above.

If she says he didn't eat then tell her that you can't accept him hungry. If she says she tried to eat and he wouldn't... say well he will be hungry at lunch... she may shoot back with "will you feed him if he gets hungry between?".. say that you will call her to come get him if he becomes hungry. If she says he has eaten and it was a problem... say "welcome to parenting".

Her excuse that he doesn't get up until so late isn't one she invented. Tell her that he just needs to get up earlier. It's just part of being a kid and going to school or daycare.

THERE'S NOTHING SPECIAL ABOUT HER DEAL. She just has to parent.
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trix23 07:51 AM 06-08-2017
I find it's just easiest to just feed the kid at the next meal or snack time. That's in my handbook and I don't even comment on it.
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Blackcat31 08:55 AM 06-08-2017
Originally Posted by trix23:
I find it's just easiest to just feed the kid at the next meal or snack time. That's in my handbook and I don't even comment on it.
Speaking of books.... I think you might be in need of this one https://www.amazon.com/Daycare-Whisp...ords=Tori+Fees

Seriously.....read it. Keep it handy, kind of like a user's manual.

You will learn quickly to recognize specific parent behavior patterns loooooong before they become an issue and most times when someone is able to be one step ahead you have the advantage.

I know the author and she knows her stuff so worth the $ hands down!!!!!!!!!!
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trix23 09:21 AM 06-08-2017
I actually purchased this book about a year ago, lol. I might need to reread it but I definitely got a lot of my backbone from her policies and outlook on daycare
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hwichlaz 09:24 AM 06-08-2017
I don't ask if a child ate...my policy is clear in my handbook.

If a parent mentions that a child might be a bit hungry, I just say....."Then I'll put a bit extra on his lunch plate." or "Lunch (next meal) is at XX:XX am/pm"
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Ariana 11:38 AM 06-08-2017
Originally Posted by nannyde:
I haven't heard of allergy testing being categorically inaccurate. Do you have any current research you have read to state this?

If he was on a special diet before entering daycare the provider should have been told before interviewing... on first phone call.
Agree that mom should have told the provider. Might be possible she didn't know.

One way a DR can determine if a child has an allergy is through elimination diet. We did a skin test for DD to determine if dairy was causing her hives, eczema, excessive vomitting, congestion and got negative results. The DR told us to eliminate dairy for 3 weeks to see if symptoms improved as the skin test is not always accurate. Luckily the symptoms improved so we remained dairy free. Had my child been in daycare at that time I would have had to ask my provider to accommodate the elimination diet.

http://acaai.org/allergies/allergy-t...en-and-infants
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Ariana 11:47 AM 06-08-2017
Originally Posted by nannyde:
I'm just not convinced the child has an allergy to gluten or milk.

What does she mean by oral reaction?

I would sit her down and say I need actual proof that he has an allergy or intolerance. I need testing results, testing date, and testing method used to determine allergy or "intolerance"
It really does not matter if you are convinced. She is asking for dietary considerations and as a provider you either provide it or don't. Oral reactions are swelling of the mouth, tongue or rash. Unfortunately most people think intolerances are fake.

Originally Posted by :
This idea that the parents don't have time to make lunch is SO SO SO SO SO ridiculous. She is spending SO much time talking to you about food... use THAT time to make him lunch. Feed him breakfast before daycare, bring lunch and snack and be done with it.
I was simply giving an idea of why she might want the menu in advance. It is hard to meet all of the state dietary requirements as care providers and it takes a lot of planning so you expect a mom to do it over night?! I wanted to give the other side of this, as a mom with a kid with an intolerance who is just learning about it (if this was just learned about).

Originally Posted by :
Stop the insanity. Until she provides ACTUAL PROOF that he has an allergy by way of ACTUAL testing then he is not considered disabled and is not covered by the disability act. You do not have to provide services based upon parents words.
Sometimes you cannot actually provide actual proof of a dietary intolerance or sensitivity. It often does not show up on allergy tests. Unfortunately you either take the parents word for it, adopt the new diet or terminate the parent.
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trix23 12:20 PM 06-08-2017
If my child had an allergy or sensitivity to food and the provider was telling me I need to provide all meals I would either do that or find care somewhere else. I wouldn't fight them on it. I don't understand my parents think that they have a say in this matter. They enrolled with my program and agree to follow my policies and even in my hand book and my contract document it says this multiple times so there really should be no surprises.
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CityGarden 12:36 PM 06-08-2017
Is this the same mom who you are terming today?
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Ariana 12:38 PM 06-08-2017
Originally Posted by trix23:
If my child had an allergy or sensitivity to food and the provider was telling me I need to provide all meals I would either do that or find care somewhere else. I wouldn't fight them on it. I don't understand my parents think that they have a say in this matter. They enrolled with my program and agree to follow my policies and even in my hand book and my contract document it says this multiple times so there really should be no surprises.
Agree 100%!
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mommyneedsadayoff 03:22 PM 06-08-2017
Originally Posted by Ariana:
It really does not matter if you are convinced. She is asking for dietary considerations and as a provider you either provide it or don't. Oral reactions are swelling of the mouth, tongue or rash. Unfortunately most people think intolerances are fake.



I was simply giving an idea of why she might want the menu in advance. It is hard to meet all of the state dietary requirements as care providers and it takes a lot of planning so you expect a mom to do it over night?! I wanted to give the other side of this, as a mom with a kid with an intolerance who is just learning about it (if this was just learned about).



Sometimes you cannot actually provide actual proof of a dietary intolerance or sensitivity. It often does not show up on allergy tests. Unfortunately you either take the parents word for it, adopt the new diet or terminate the parent.
I totally understand what you are saying, but in this case, it is not adding up. Dck is home with a nanny for two years where parents control the food. Parents say they avoid dairy and gluten at home, yet accept that it is served at dc. Parents then say that dck has never showed oral sensitivity to foods they never served, yet they knew those foods would be served. I am curious as to what diet this child received at home. And I am curious as to why they would sign up for a dc that serves foods they do not serve at home. Either they honestly didn't know, or they thought they could change the menu after they started and had paid money to be there. It is odd, yet not very uncommon.
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Ariana 04:24 PM 06-08-2017
Originally Posted by mommyneedsadayoff:
I totally understand what you are saying, but in this case, it is not adding up. Dck is home with a nanny for two years where parents control the food. Parents say they avoid dairy and gluten at home, yet accept that it is served at dc. Parents then say that dck has never showed oral sensitivity to foods they never served, yet they knew those foods would be served. I am curious as to what diet this child received at home. And I am curious as to why they would sign up for a dc that serves foods they do not serve at home. Either they honestly didn't know, or they thought they could change the menu after they started and had paid money to be there. It is odd, yet not very uncommon.
It is quite possible, again just playing devils advocate, that she never gave her kid those foods until the daycare and that it was only then that her kid reacted to the food. For example my kids have never ever had milk so I cannot tell you how they might react if it was given because we don't have it. I know how they react to cheese and yogurt. Sometimes when they go to my parents they get things they are not supposed to get (because my parents are idiots and think sensitivities are fake) then my kid will have some reaction and I need to ask what they had to eat. Sometimes they are having things that we simply do not eat so they might be reacting to that foreign food or they might be reacting to dairy...who knows when they are in other peoples care who I am not paying!

I personally wouldn't sign up for care where my kids diet restrictions couldn't be accommodated but I also know they have those restrictions. This mom might have simply thought that her kid would be fine...until he started having issues. In my opinion going from dairy and gluten free to suddenly having lots of dairy and gluten is a recipe for disaster so this mom is 100% an idiot. Is she being malicious though? Maybe. Considering all of the other issues at play it sounds like she is.
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trix23 04:25 PM 06-08-2017
They avoid dairy and gluten for health reasons. The mom doesn't eat this stuff too.
And no, not the same parent, unfortunately..
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nannyde 06:11 AM 06-09-2017
Originally Posted by trix23:
They avoid dairy and gluten for heakth reasons. The mom doesn't eat this stuff too.
And no, not the same parent, unfortunately..
This is the part I don't get. They already eat this way at home. Why can't she just feed him breakfast and bring an easy to heat and serve or cold lunch to him and two snacks every day. Just make more for dinner and slop some into a container with whatever she gives him for snacks?

It's SO SO SO SO SO easy to solve. No more discussions EVER about food.

This deal that he wakes up so late is silly. Just put him to bed a half hour earlier and get him up a half earlier. Sit down and have breakfast WITH him every morning.

She could completely solve this with very little effort on her part.
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trix23 09:43 PM 06-09-2017
I used to wake up at 6:30am to make my son a lunch for daycare, get him ready, myself ready, pack my own lunch then spend 45 minutes driving to drop him off and then head back home to go to work (When I did housecleaning). I would love to wake up at 8am!!!
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trix23 03:56 PM 06-15-2017
This family gave their 2 weeks notice today. Since I didn't bend to their will, they are finding care elsewhere. Lol.
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CityGarden 04:15 PM 06-15-2017
Originally Posted by trix23:
This family gave their 2 weeks notice today. Since I didn't bend to their will, they are finding care elsewhere. Lol.
That is good - you will no longer have to deal with them and they can still respect their family wishes with regard to diet. I am glad they gave their proper 2 weeks notice!

Too bad for the child who will have to move programs and readjust - all of this could have been avoided if mom had been either honest with herself or honest with you from the start. I don't judge families for having different views on eating / nutrition but I have never asked anyone to provide meals for my child and I don't provide meals in my program. They say Los Angeles Has The Pickiest Eaters In America so I only offer snacks! I guess now mom knows this is a deal breaker for her so she will hopefully ask about that prior to enrollment.
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trix23 05:12 PM 06-15-2017
Does your child have allergies/ sensitivities?

At least I won't have to deal with this high-needs mom. Oy. I really liked the dad. I felt that he had reasonable expectations.
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LysesKids 06:46 PM 06-15-2017
Originally Posted by trix23:
At drop-off today I could tell DCM was fuming. She said that I really didn't give enough notice for the policy change for meals (told them yesterday afternoon) and that they feel I should've given more notice or mentioned it the first time. I told her that I wasn't sure how I felt about it because it's never happened before with a client and that I tried it out a 2-3 times for them then implemented the new policy. She seemed ok with that answer but still upset.

And the snack she packed for his afternoon snack is cucumbers and hummus -.- lolol
What's wrong with Cukes & hummus? If they can't have Gluten, it's not like they would pack pita bread - wheat equals gluten, as well as some other flours like Barley & even oats. We eat cukes & hummus here all the time or I fry up corn tortillas (yes from scratch)

Gluten free pretty much limits what type of non wheat bread product of any kind can be used - as a Gluten intolerant person myself, I get it, but you might not. Gluten can be in Soy sauce, mixes of all types & even bottled gravy; unless my oatmeal is certified gluten free, it could be cross contaminated in the mill just by grinding. I have to read all labels just to make sure it's not in my toothpaste (there are different words for gluten, but it can be there too)
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CityGarden 09:52 PM 06-15-2017
Originally Posted by trix23:
Does your child have allergies/ sensitivities?

At least I won't have to deal with this high-needs mom. Oy. I really liked the dad. I felt that he had reasonable expectations.
Yes my child has a peanut and dairy allergy (dairy being defined as a protein in cow products) we also do not eat red meat and are mostly vegetarian. We never had an issue with daycare / preschool - most schools here are either 100% nut free or at the least peanut free so that was a non-issue and nothing to discuss. I would bring up the dairy allergy and both schools made alternatives available - both schools also only offered snack and neither were home based.

Yes the upside is you will no longer need to deal with this mom who would have always pushed for more....
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Tags:allergies - dairy, allergies - gluten, allergy policy, gluten free, special meals
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