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Daycare Center and Family Home Forum>Rant - Mother Won't Let Child Get His Sleep
permanentvacation 06:04 AM 09-17-2014
My 2 year old has been horrible every day for months. If I weren't so broke, I would have kicked him out day one! He cries all day long, forces himself to cry, hits the other kids, cries at everything I say to him; even something simple like " push your chair in", he's just a mess all day long. At nap, though, he's dead asleep and I swear he'd sleep all day long if I let him. I have to wake him from a dead sleep every day. Then he's tired and hateful for the rest of the day.

I tell everyone who picks him up exactly how his day went. The grandfather says I never have a nice word to say about him, and the other family members just say something light-hearted as if to joke about him having a horrible day and making everyone else's day pure Hell here. I guess since they aren't the ones having to put up with him, they don't care that we have to live with him being like this all day long.

His mother came in 2 days ago and told me that he slept overnight for 12 hours. That was the first day that he behaved! He was a perfect little boy! So I told his mother that obviously sleep is all he needs. But she wants to work 12 hours per day to make the money she wants/needs. She makes much more than she needs. She goes the ocean every other weekend and goes on little weekend trips all the time.

Her story is that she works 12 hours but also wants to spend time with her son. So she makes the grandmother keep him awake until she gets home from work so she can spend time with him. But that makes him not be able to get the sleep he needs, so all day long, he's crying, hateful, mean to the other kids, so none of the kids like him, and he's in trouble all day long. Every day, he (and everyone in daycare) has a completely horrible day all day long!

It's great that she wants to enjoy time with her son. But not if it's at his expense.
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nannyde 06:14 AM 09-17-2014
Put him to bed the minute he arrives. Sleep till nine or ten and then back from noon to four.
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Cat Herder 06:19 AM 09-17-2014
Originally Posted by nannyde:
Put him to bed the minute he arrives. Sleep till nine or ten and then back from noon to four.
Child Care means meeting a child's needs.

Early Childhood Education comes AFTER meeting a child's needs.

Children can't learn if their basic needs are not met. His need for this much sleep is temporary. Most likely he is in a rapid growth phase. Simple. No guilt.
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permanentvacation 06:30 AM 09-17-2014
I do put him to bed as soon as he gets here. But he just screams and cries for the longest time; I think because he's so exhausted and over tired. I've tried being really nice to him and comforting him, tried reprimanding him for screaming like he does, tried telling him that if he can stop crying, he can go play, it just goes in this never-ending circle of trying everything I can to get him to stop crying. Some days he will lay down and sleep immediately, others, it's a vicious circle of me trying to figure out what to do to get him to either sleep or stop crying and play.

And now, to be bold face told by the mother that she knows he just needs a couple of more hours of sleep, but she refuses to allow him to get his sleep because she wants to work long hours AND see him, I know I will always be fighting this losing battle until he simply doesn't need as much sleep or until he accepts that he needs to come in to daycare and take a morning nap.

I just don't understand parents who put their wants above their children's needs and don't care how badly they are negatively affecting their child.
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Cat Herder 06:34 AM 09-17-2014
Originally Posted by permanentvacation:
it's a vicious circle

I know I will always be fighting this losing battle
Put your star on the calendar today.

You deserve it.
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permanentvacation 06:55 AM 09-17-2014
Cat herder,

Thank you. I definitely feel like I'm earning my gold star!
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daycare 07:04 AM 09-17-2014
I have this child. Parents do what works for them and I do what works for me.

The child comes I my home to basically sleep. Sometimes the child sleeps 5-7 hours when he. Obviously the child needed it.

I would stop waking the child up and go on with your day. Let them wake up when they are done sleeping.
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Leigh 07:27 AM 09-17-2014
Originally Posted by nannyde:
Put him to bed the minute he arrives. Sleep till nine or ten and then back from noon to four.

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Heidi 07:37 AM 09-17-2014
Originally Posted by daycare:
I have this child. Parents do what works for them and I do what works for me.

The child comes I my home to basically sleep. Sometimes the child sleeps 5-7 hours when he. Obviously the child needed it.

I would stop waking the child up and go on with your day. Let them wake up when they are done sleeping.
Offer him a nap at arrival. On days he doesn't sleep then, let him sleep as long as he wants. If the persons picking him up have to be the one to wake him, so be it. Maybe then, they'll see for themselves WHY he needs more sleep. If not, then your day just got easier.

I would make him a super-cozy mat of his own, in a quiet area. Have a party about it. Yeah! You have your own, super cozy bed now!

Please remind yourself that this is not his fault. He's just a little boy. It's so easy to forget that sometimes when they are so contrary.
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Thriftylady 07:44 AM 09-17-2014
I agree, I would quit waking him up, that would be my first step. The next would be keep trying to slip a morning nap in there.
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KiddieCahoots 07:47 AM 09-17-2014
I have this child too! He is now going on hour 3 of sleeping, form the moment he got here this morning, and will take a 2nd nap later as well.

All this sleep = happy, functioning baby.

So frustrating when everybody KNOWS EXACTLY what the child needs, yet your alone with solving the issue, cause parents wants are coming first.

Keep giving him his sleep, the only way to make the day bearable for you, him, and the children in your care.
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Leigh 09:46 AM 09-17-2014
I have a child who "won't" nap at home on the weekends-he's the best napper I have ever seen. On Mondays, he often takes 4 hour plus naps at my house. His parents just can't believe it when they ask me how I do it. I just tell him that it is naptime and he runs in and covers up and is out in seconds-he has done this since day one-no training from me.
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daycarediva 09:55 AM 09-17-2014
Originally Posted by nannyde:
Put him to bed the minute he arrives. Sleep till nine or ten and then back from noon to four.
Originally Posted by daycare:
I have this child. Parents do what works for them and I do what works for me.

The child comes I my home to basically sleep. Sometimes the child sleeps 5-7 hours when he. Obviously the child needed it.

I would stop waking the child up and go on with your day. Let them wake up when they are done sleeping.
Yup.

"I can see you're tired. You take a nice rest and you will feel so much better when you wake up sweetie."

and I would NOT wake him.

I have a 4yo who sleeps at drop off until breakfast, voluntarily. Then he often naps voluntarily during circle/story time and all of indoor play. He is OUT the second his head hits the mat at rest time and is good for at least 2 hours.

His parents think 6-7 hours of sleep a night is good, since they both 'require much less sleep than other people.' They think because THEY do, dcb does, too. THAT doesn't apply to children.
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jenboo 10:08 AM 09-17-2014
Is he able to nap away from everyone so guys screaming doesn't bother him? If so, I would put him down for a nap as soon as he showed signs of being exhausted. Make it sound exciting for him. Put audio books on, etc. I borrow them from the library and the kids love them!
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CraftyMom 10:09 AM 09-17-2014
I agree with everyone else, I never wake a sleeping child...unless it's time for them to leave. (Or if it's my own child who lately want to take a nap at 5:00pm instead of regular naptime )
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TwinKristi 10:13 AM 09-17-2014
Originally Posted by Leigh:
I have a child who "won't" nap at home on the weekends-he's the best napper I have ever seen. On Mondays, he often takes 4 hour plus naps at my house. His parents just can't believe it when they ask me how I do it. I just tell him that it is naptime and he runs in and covers up and is out in seconds-he has done this since day one-no training from me.
This was me until last week! DCB has always been a great napper despite DCM saying he sleeps horribly at home. Recently he's gotten better at home, but the last 2 weeks he has been fighting nap time and then when mom gets here he's a mess and falls asleep right before pickup or at home. If she knows he hasn't napped by 3:30 when everyone is getting up she picks him up early so he'll nap at home.

But to the OP- unfortunately when you have to work with it and can't term then you have to get creative. What's his current schedule like?
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permanentvacation 11:05 AM 09-17-2014
That's just it, he doesn't have a schedule and he's making it so no one here has a schedule. I don't have anyplace he can sleep away from everyone. I used to have a schedule for my daycare which included the typical nap after lunch. But he comes in every morning exhausted and hateful. So, I have been trying to allow him to sleep when he needs to, but I truly don't think he's on a schedule at night at home, so he can't get on a schedule during the day here. Some days he comes in and goes right to sleep. Other days, I lay him down after he gets in and he won't go to sleep, but he screams and cries for hours I believe because he's so tired. Some days I make him continue to lay down longer in hopes that he will eventually fall asleep - sometimes he does, sometimes he doesn't. He is completely horrible until he gets enough sleep, but he won't get on a schedule. He also won't sleep through the other kids making noise and since I can't give him a separate area to sleep, I make the kids take a nap when he lays down.

Honestly, it just boils down to the fact that since the mother doesn't keep him on a schedule that works for him at home, he can't get on a schedule during the day. He simply is not a good fit here in my daycare. However, since I currently can't afford to kick him out, I have to just deal with this.

Today, he was hateful and horrible all morning. I tried to get him to take a nap this morning, but he just cried as if he was overtired but could not get to sleep. I finally let him up and decided to keep him up the rest of the day. He was hateful off and on, then finally stopped being hateful. Maybe if I keep him up during the day, his mother will not be able to keep him awake at night and she will have to let him sleep at night like he needs to.

I might be able to force his family to get him into a schedule that works for him if I DON'T let him sleep more than a normal daycare nap length and time. I've been letting him sleep here when he wants, and that hasn't helped at all. I need to break this vicious circle he is in. I'm going to try for a few days of only letting him sleep at a normal nap time here and see if it changes anything.
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KidGrind 11:16 AM 09-17-2014
Originally Posted by permanentvacation:
That's just it, he doesn't have a schedule and he's making it so no one here has a schedule. I don't have anyplace he can sleep away from everyone. I used to have a schedule for my daycare which included the typical nap after lunch. But he comes in every morning exhausted and hateful. So, I have been trying to allow him to sleep when he needs to, but I truly don't think he's on a schedule at night at home, so he can't get on a schedule during the day here. Some days he comes in and goes right to sleep. Other days, I lay him down after he gets in and he won't go to sleep, but he screams and cries for hours I believe because he's so tired. Some days I make him continue to lay down longer in hopes that he will eventually fall asleep - sometimes he does, sometimes he doesn't. He is completely horrible until he gets enough sleep, but he won't get on a schedule. He also won't sleep through the other kids making noise and since I can't give him a separate area to sleep, I make the kids take a nap when he lays down.

Honestly, it just boils down to the fact that since the mother doesn't keep him on a schedule that works for him at home, he can't get on a schedule during the day. He simply is not a good fit here in my daycare. However, since I currently can't afford to kick him out, I have to just deal with this.

Today, he was hateful and horrible all morning. I tried to get him to take a nap this morning, but he just cried as if he was overtired but could not get to sleep. I finally let him up and decided to keep him up the rest of the day. He was hateful off and on, then finally stopped being hateful. Maybe if I keep him up during the day, his mother will not be able to keep him awake at night and she will have to let him sleep at night like he needs to.

I might be able to force his family to get him into a schedule that works for him if I DON'T let him sleep more than a normal daycare nap length and time. I've been letting him sleep here when he wants, and that hasn't helped at all. I need to break this vicious circle he is in. I'm going to try for a few days of only letting him sleep at a normal nap time here and see if it changes anything.

You can’t force a family to do anything with their child. YOU CAN start interviewing perspective families and put yourself in a position to terminate without skipping a beat.
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permanentvacation 11:23 AM 09-17-2014
I constantly advertise and don't get any decent calls. There are way too many licensed daycare centers and homes as well as illegal babysitters in my area. Many licensed home daycare providers have shut down their daycare because of the inability to get enough kids. I just might be the next to close.
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permanentvacation 05:08 AM 09-18-2014
Since he never took a nap yesterday, the grand mom couldn't keep him awake after 8 last night. (He really needs to go to bed at 7 but they purposely keep him up til 9:30 so his mom can see him after work.) Since he went to bed at 8 last night, he's tired, rubbing his eyes, and moving slowly, but he's not crying this morning!

I gave the grand mom a big speech about him needing his sleep last night when she picked up. She said she might try to start picking him up around 4 to take him home and give him a nap from 4:30-6:30 so he can then get up and see his mother, then go to bed at 9/9:30. We'll see if she starts doing that or not.
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EntropyControlSpecialist 05:46 AM 09-18-2014
Originally Posted by permanentvacation:
Since he never took a nap yesterday, the grand mom couldn't keep him awake after 8 last night. (He really needs to go to bed at 7 but they purposely keep him up til 9:30 so his mom can see him after work.) Since he went to bed at 8 last night, he's tired, rubbing his eyes, and moving slowly, but he's not crying this morning!

I gave the grand mom a big speech about him needing his sleep last night when she picked up. She said she might try to start picking him up around 4 to take him home and give him a nap from 4:30-6:30 so he can then get up and see his mother, then go to bed at 9/9:30. We'll see if she starts doing that or not.
I really hope they work with you for the child'd sake (and all the rest of your daycare's sanity).
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permanentvacation 06:58 AM 09-18-2014
Yes, I hope they do too. It really bothers me when a parent puts their wants ahead of their child's needs.
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permanentvacation 06:02 AM 09-19-2014
I all but quit! I finally got Grand mom to understand that he needs his sleep and she started putting the child to bed at 7 like he needs. But now, since mom can't spend time with him at night, she is hanging all over him at drop off time! So, he's not tired, but is whining and doing this forceful 'ahhh ahhh' cry thing all morning after I peel him away from Mommy! Ughhh!!!
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Heidi 06:17 AM 09-19-2014
Originally Posted by permanentvacation:
I all but quit! I finally got Grand mom to understand that he needs his sleep and she started putting the child to bed at 7 like he needs. But now, since mom can't spend time with him at night, she is hanging all over him at drop off time! So, he's not tired, but is whining and doing this forceful 'ahhh ahhh' cry thing all morning after I peel him away from Mommy! Ughhh!!!
Look, she misses him. Although that is unpleasant, I don't really get what you want you DO want from her? It sounds like, from here, you are telling them what's wrong, but not what they CAN do, kwim?

How about suggesting (kindly) that she spend a few minutes in the morning with him, one-on-one, at home? "Hey, dcm, our days are going so much better now that dcb is getting to bed at a reasonable hour. He seems to be enjoying himself SO much more here. But, I was thinking, since he misses you so much, and seems to be having a hard time separating, I have an idea. How about, you bring him a half hour later, but spend that time just being with him, one-on-one? I'd be happy to give you some activity ideas, or you could just read to him and snuggle. I bet you'll BOTH have an easier then, and we can keep the morning drop offs quick and easy."

You can also suggest the "secret handshake" goodbye, etc.
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permanentvacation 06:44 AM 09-19-2014
Yeah, I just care that he needs more sleep. I really just care about his needs, not the mother's wants. The fact that the mother chooses to go on mini-vacations every weekend which makes her need to work extra hours to pay for them, makes me feel that she is putting her wants ahead of his needs. So I don't feel bad for her that she misses him during the week. She is choosing to enjoy more interesting weekends rather than see him daily. I guess that's why I haven't thought of suggesting to her how to spend more time with him in the morning.

The only thing I have suggested they do is let him get his sleep. His grandmother suggested that she pick him up at 4, let him nap 4:30-6:30 then he can be awake to visit with mom and go to bed around 9. I think that would work if Grand mom did that. So far, she's picked him up at the regular time and put him to bed for the night at 7. If she would start picking him up at 4 and giving him an early evening nap at home, I think everything would be fine. He'd get his sleep and mom would be able to spend time with him after work.

I have tried to let him sleep late in the afternoon here, but the other parents are questioning why he's asleep, I would be in trouble with my supervisor if she sees him sleeping that late, and sometimes I know he needs to sleep, but can't get to sleep through the noise of the other kids. Plus then I have to rearrange the schedule and can't go outside for our normal afternoon outdoor time.
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Tags:interruption - sleep, parents - don't cooperate
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