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meli829 04:38 AM 12-01-2010
DCB''s temp just kept climbing yesterday, but only reached 100.4 around pickup so I didn't call mom to get him as she was going to be there in half an hour anyway. She said she'd let me know how he was doing and give me a call that night. No call came and she shows up this morning with DCB and Tempra and says she gave him some last night and his fever went down to 99. I tell her that he can't stay here if he isn't fever free without meds. She insisted that before she gave him Tempra this morning his temp was below 100 and she gave it to him just in case. So I let him stay but told her if his temp goes back to 100 she will have to pick him up. Did I do the right thing? Part of me wishes I wouldn't have accepted him until he was fever free for 24 hours as it states in my contact. I just the other kids or my daughter don't get sick now! Ughh!
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marniewon 05:02 AM 12-01-2010
What I would have done is told her at pick-up yesterday that since his temp got to 100.4, that he would have to stay home tomorrow (today) and until his temp was under 100 w/o meds. That would have avoided the awkward scene at the door this morning, and the possibility that you or the rest of the kids will catch what he's coming down with. If his temp does go back up after meds wear off, make sure to tell her he can't come tomorrow either, that way she won't show up at your door expecting you to keep him.

Hope you all stay healthy despite this!!
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meli829 05:18 AM 12-01-2010
Thanks, yeah I am kicking myself for not having done that. Anyway, took his temp and it is 99.7 WITH meds. I'm waiting for it to wear off and then I'm calling mom and will make sure to tell her this time that he can't come tomorrow either. He had a blowout this morning too, and it was diarrhea, so I'm suspecting something more is going on. I had a good relationship with her but now I feel taken advantage of. Anyway, lesson learned.
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nannyde 05:35 AM 12-01-2010
Originally Posted by meli829:
DCB''s temp just kept climbing yesterday, but only reached 100.4 around pickup so I didn't call mom to get him as she was going to be there in half an hour anyway. She said she'd let me know how he was doing and give me a call that night. No call came and she shows up this morning with DCB and Tempra and says she gave him some last night and his fever went down to 99. I tell her that he can't stay here if he isn't fever free without meds. She insisted that before she gave him Tempra this morning his temp was below 100 and she gave it to him just in case. So I let him stay but told her if his temp goes back to 100 she will have to pick him up. Did I do the right thing? Part of me wishes I wouldn't have accepted him until he was fever free for 24 hours as it states in my contact. I just the other kids or my daughter don't get sick now! Ughh!
She insisted that before she gave him Tempra this morning his temp was below 100 and she gave it to him just in case.

This is the money shot. In case of what? In case he has a fever?

I can't keep him in case he has a fever that I can't see because of the tylenol. He needs to go home just in case he has one.

My policy is fever free for 24 hours without the use of fever reducing meds. Once the parent brings the child on fever reducing meds they automatically can't stay. I have no way to determine if they are fever free if they come after taking fever reducing medication.

Ugh
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marniewon 05:35 AM 12-01-2010
You could call her now, if he has a fever with meds and diarhea (sp). I would. It's not like she's not waiting for the call, she knows she doped him to get a few hours at work, and she knows you WILL be calling when the med wears off.

In the meantime, don't breathe!! j/k Hope you all stay healthy!
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momofboys 05:38 AM 12-01-2010
I would call mom now. If his temp is alwready almost 100 on meds it will soon be over 100. I would tell her you need her to pick up within 1/2 hr or however far she is from your home & that he is not allowed to return until Friday. Good luck!
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meli829 05:44 AM 12-01-2010
I just double checked with the oral thermometer and it is a bit higher now at 101.1. I'm calling her now.
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DCMom 05:45 AM 12-01-2010
I agree with janarae, she's just waiting for the call. And I would be calling her to pick up, that isn't fair to you or the child.

Why, why, why do parents do this to their kids?
I get that you have job responsibilities, but this is your kid and they are sick! Do you think he/she wants to be anywhere but their bed, near their mom when they don't feel well?
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meli829 05:54 AM 12-01-2010
She totally was expecting my call, and she will be here in half in hour. The poor kid is just sitting in his high chair looking miserable. I don't believe he didn't have a fever this morning because the meds should technically still be working as she gave them to him at 7 this morning and it is now 9:30.
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nannyde 06:12 AM 12-01-2010
Originally Posted by DCMom:
Why, why, why do parents do this to their kids?
They don't want to stay home and take care of a sick kid. Work is easier.
They don't want to pay for day care they aren't getting.

This is a good example of how it bites you in the butt. She could have stayed home today and had a shot at bringing him tomorrow. Now she's blown today and tomorrow.

OP do NOT allow her to bring him tomorrow. You have a REALLY good chance that she will call you tonight or in the morning and tell you that he has been excellent all day... no fever... no diarrhea.. that it ended when she picked him up at ten so she wants to bring him back at ten tomorrow.

It's very rare for parents to pick kids up early in the morning on day one and not want them back in care on day two. About 99 percent of the time they say that the kid was not sick at all in their care after they left your house. They call and say they are eating GREAT.. had a huge lunch and supper and are up running around the house.. perfectly fine.

These are the "words" they say to buy day care the next day after an early exclusion. If you exclude at nap time or after nap time you normally don't have it. If you exclude in the morning you have a REALLY good chance that they are going to say this and ask you if they can come back 22 hours after no fever or illness signs... which would lend them to bringing them at their normal time the next day.

Just be firm that the exclusion is for today and tomorrow and no exceptions or you will be redoing this tonight or first thing in the morning.
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momofboys 06:19 AM 12-01-2010
Originally Posted by meli829:
She totally was expecting my call, and she will be here in half in hour. The poor kid is just sitting in his high chair looking miserable. I don't believe he didn't have a fever this morning because the meds should technically still be working as she gave them to him at 7 this morning and it is now 9:30.
I would be sure to tell her he can not come back tomorrow, no exceptions! I guess I am puzzled as to why the parents do this when they only got to work a couple of hours at work. Was it really worth it? Ughhh I feel for you!
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Crystal 06:28 AM 12-01-2010
ITA with Nannyde. Personally, I would tell her not to come back at all. She knowingly put your family and any other children in care at risk. She LIED to you, what's she going to lie about next time the child is sick? This is one of the few times I would terminate.
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nannyde 06:30 AM 12-01-2010
Originally Posted by janarae:
I would be sure to tell her he can not come back tomorrow, no exceptions! I guess I am puzzled as to why the parents do this when they only got to work a couple of hours at work. Was it really worth it? Ughhh I feel for you!
It's all odds.

If they medicate them before day care then they have a really good shot to make it until nap time especially if it is Advil. If they have to pick up at nap time at least they get to go home and put the kid to bed so it's nearly the same as a regular day. Many times the meds don't wear off until after nap has started when the child is sleeping so it's not discovered until after nap. This buys them the full day but not the next day.

If they keep them home they have NO chance of not having a sick kid to care for and they still pay for day care. If they bring them to day care on meds they have a good chance. If they keep them home they have no chance.

A lot of the decision whether or not to try bringing them to day care has to do with the level of inconvenience the parent will have. If the kid is vomiting very close to the time when they take off in the morning they will normally keep them home because they don't want the kid puking in the car seat on the way over. They can't hide the puke when they get to the day care house and they have to clean up a nasty mess in the car.

If they can cover up the illness with just a simple dose of Advil the pay off is very high. Most parents doing this do it regularly and it WORKS. They have the life experience of thinking their kid is sick... seeing a fever the night before and possibly in the morning... giving the kid the meds in the morning and the day care provider being none the wiser. For every time the kid actually spikes a temp before nap they have had five... six.. seven times of doing it and the provider not knowing.

Because it's so successful so much of the time they have an increased hope that today will be yet another day it works. They never really know what day it's not going to work so they go for it each time. The pay off is huge and the success is so frequent that today really isn't any different than the other five/ten times it has worked.
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meli829 06:48 AM 12-01-2010
When she picked him up she said something along the lines of I (dcb name) I have to miss works now no no. Dcb is 1 year old so he probably didn't understand but it was clear that she was frustrated at having to miss work. She beat me to it though and said she will probably keep him home tomorrow and I said Yes he has to stay home until he is fever free for 24 hours without meds. When I handed her the bag with the blowout she said he had diarhhea again?! She's supposed to call me on Friday now, and I'm just hoping she actually calls this time and doesn't try to show up with him drugged up again!
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SimpleMom 07:06 AM 12-01-2010
Originally Posted by nannyde:
They don't want to stay home and take care of a sick kid. Work is easier.
They don't want to pay for day care they aren't getting.

This is a good example of how it bites you in the butt. She could have stayed home today and had a shot at bringing him tomorrow. Now she's blown today and tomorrow.

OP do NOT allow her to bring him tomorrow. You have a REALLY good chance that she will call you tonight or in the morning and tell you that he has been excellent all day... no fever... no diarrhea.. that it ended when she picked him up at ten so she wants to bring him back at ten tomorrow.

It's very rare for parents to pick kids up early in the morning on day one and not want them back in care on day two. About 99 percent of the time they say that the kid was not sick at all in their care after they left your house. They call and say they are eating GREAT.. had a huge lunch and supper and are up running around the house.. perfectly fine.

These are the "words" they say to buy day care the next day after an early exclusion. If you exclude at nap time or after nap time you normally don't have it. If you exclude in the morning you have a REALLY good chance that they are going to say this and ask you if they can come back 22 hours after no fever or illness signs... which would lend them to bringing them at their normal time the next day.

Just be firm that the exclusion is for today and tomorrow and no exceptions or you will be redoing this tonight or first thing in the morning.
NOT to rock the boat--- I know the above can be true, but I just wanted to add that most parents don't like having to work away from their kids let alone when they area ill. It may be they are in danger of losing their job if they stay home. I've been on that end of it and it stinks. I felt stuck no matter which way i went and wanted nothing more than to stay home with my child. jmho
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nannyde 07:08 AM 12-01-2010
Originally Posted by meli829:
.She beat me to it though and said she will probably keep him home tomorrow
Probably is the key word here.

This is parent speak for telling you that she will decide if he comes tomorrow and tomorrow is still on the table.

It's best not to throw the 24 hour time frame into discussions about early exclusions. This will lead to what I described above. Best to just TELL them they can't come tomorrow or you will end up with them negotiating 22 hours fever free so they can come their regular time or 24 hours free and they can just return at the time you excluded him today.
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jen 10:02 AM 12-01-2010
Originally Posted by meli829:
When she picked him up she said something along the lines of I (dcb name) I have to miss works now no no. Dcb is 1 year old so he probably didn't understand but it was clear that she was frustrated at having to miss work. She beat me to it though and said she will probably keep him home tomorrow and I said Yes he has to stay home until he is fever free for 24 hours without meds. When I handed her the bag with the blowout she said he had diarhhea again?! She's supposed to call me on Friday now, and I'm just hoping she actually calls this time and doesn't try to show up with him drugged up again!
Saying "probably" indicates that she'll decide what she wants to do, she thinks its her choice...and really, you need to let her know that it is YOUR call. 24 hours, no exceptions, definitely NOT her call to make.
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Unregistered 11:24 AM 12-01-2010
I would definitely exclude for tommorrow. It wouldn't even be an option for him to possibly come. I have had parents do things like that in the past and it makes me nuts. I enforce my illness policy for everyone's benefit and when parents try to sneak sick kids in, that is making it harder for the illness policy to do its job. Lying about illness is an automatic termination worthy offense here.

I understand that sometimes kids will run a low grade temp. but if it passes 100, I send the child home. I have had parents in the past get really mad at me for sending the kid home for temperatures that they consider to be low grade or teething related, but I have to do the right thing for everyone here and I can't justify keeping a kid with a temp. in my home for the day and risk exposing everyone else to illness.
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Unregistered 07:39 AM 12-02-2010
First off a temp of 100 is NOT a fever, ask any doctor the temp has to be 101 or higher and a temp of 101 is considered a low grade fever. Now when his temp went to 101 I would of called and told her to come get him ASAP and take him to the doctors and he can not return untill he is fever free for 24 hours WITHOUT meds and with a doctors note.
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QualiTcare 12:42 PM 12-02-2010
Originally Posted by Unregistered:
First off a temp of 100 is NOT a fever, ask any doctor the temp has to be 101 or higher and a temp of 101 is considered a low grade fever. Now when his temp went to 101 I would of called and told her to come get him ASAP and take him to the doctors and he can not return untill he is fever free for 24 hours WITHOUT meds and with a doctors note.
well, if it was done orally - 100 is a fever. a rectal temp has to be higher like 101.

anyhow, she probably said that she'd "probably" keep him home tomorrow (today) bc if she picked him up early in the morning, she could technically have brought him back after 24 hours which would've been whatever time she picked him up.
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Crystal 01:30 PM 12-02-2010
Originally Posted by meli829:
When she picked him up she said something along the lines of I (dcb name) I have to miss works now no no. Dcb is 1 year old so he probably didn't understand but it was clear that she was frustrated at having to miss work. She beat me to it though and said she will probably keep him home tomorrow and I said Yes he has to stay home until he is fever free for 24 hours without meds. When I handed her the bag with the blowout she said he had diarhhea again?! She's supposed to call me on Friday now, and I'm just hoping she actually calls this time and doesn't try to show up with him drugged up again!
She DID tell her not to bring him.
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meli829 01:58 PM 12-02-2010
Actually 100 F is considered a low grade fever. I took his temp first in his ear and then orally with two different thermometers, with the temp orally being 101. Yes most doctors say not to worry unless it goes above 102F, but 100F IS a fever.

ETA: He did not come today and I am waiting for her to call about tomorrow.
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Unregistered 04:55 PM 12-02-2010
Originally Posted by meli829:
Actually 100 F is considered a low grade fever. I took his temp first in his ear and then orally with two different thermometers, with the temp orally being 101. Yes most doctors say not to worry unless it goes above 102F, but 100F IS a fever.

ETA: He did not come today and I am waiting for her to call about tomorrow.
Ask ANY school also they do NOT send kids home UNLESS the temp is 101 or higher BECAUSE lower then 101 is NOT considered a fever, FYI rectal, underarm, oral it doesnt matter where you take it it doesnt change the outcome never heard that one before might wanna brush up on your stuff lol.
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laundrymom 07:35 PM 12-02-2010
Well I don't know about schools in my area but 100.0 wins a day home with mom here. My own kids included. If temp is over 99.9 they need rest home and chicken soup.
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marniewon 10:52 PM 12-02-2010
Originally Posted by Unregistered:
Ask ANY school also they do NOT send kids home UNLESS the temp is 101 or higher BECAUSE lower then 101 is NOT considered a fever, FYI rectal, underarm, oral it doesnt matter where you take it it doesnt change the outcome never heard that one before might wanna brush up on your stuff lol.
You've never heard that different areas of the body produce different temperatures?? I think YOU need to brush up on your stuff. There IS a difference between rectal, underarm, oral, temporal, etc. If you take a temperature in each of these places on one person, you will NOT get the same result! And for your information, the schools in MY area say they send home for a fever of 100 degrees! Normal body temp is 98.6. Not everyone is the exact same temp, it does vary a few degrees by person, but 100 IS a fever, even a low-grade one.
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meli829 11:29 PM 12-02-2010
Regardless of different school policies, every research I've done lists 100F, (100.4 rectally) as a fever.
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nannyde 02:39 AM 12-03-2010
Originally Posted by Unregistered:
Ask ANY school also they do NOT send kids home UNLESS the temp is 101 or higher BECAUSE lower then 101 is NOT considered a fever, FYI rectal, underarm, oral it doesnt matter where you take it it doesnt change the outcome never heard that one before might wanna brush up on your stuff lol.
Incorrect on both counts. There is a .5 degree difference between rectal and oral... a .5 degree difference between oral and axillary... and a 1 degree difference between rectal and axillary. I don't know about ear and forehead temps because I've never used or researched them.

Oh and here is the Des Moines Public Schools Health Policy:

http://www.dmps.k12.ia.us/LinkClick....o%3d&tabid=180

Sick or injured Child at School
The school nurse or other school representative will contact you if your child becomes ill or seriously injured at school. If a parent cannot be reached, other individuals listed on the emergency form will be contacted. For the child’s safety, students will be released only to adults whose names appear on the emergency form. It is very important that you notify school when there are changes to emergency contacts of health care providers. Children should not attend school if they have had diarrhea or vomiting the past 24 hours, or have and an undiagnosed rash, or have an uncontrolled cough. Your child’s temperature should be maintained without the benefit of medication under 100 degrees for 24 hours before returning to school.
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nannyde 02:57 AM 12-03-2010
Setting policy on termperature exclusion has more variables than one would think. It's not JUST the actual temperature that shows that the child may be going out of the zone of a body's normal reaction to things such as teething or circadian rhythm.

You have to set a policy of what will be UNDERSTOOD and obeyed by the masses year after year.

Currently the American Academy of Pediatrics reccommends that teething can cause fevers up to 100.4. This is the number that should it be crossed it is a sign that teething is not the root of the fever. Since teething is the number one (by far) most common reason parents believe children are ill (because it's not contagious) they have given this exact number for us to use as a guideline and for the health departments across the land to use.

Unfortunately what they didn't consider is that 100.4 is an extremely difficult number to work with because it is quite confusing. When you have 100.4 in your policies many .. most.. parents will read it and process it as 104. So when they drop the kid off and say he had a fever of 102 last night... I think he's teething again... and you say NO that's can't be from teething... it's considered a fever indicating illness... the parent says "but I thought the cut off was 104. It's way lower than 104.

When you call them at work and say your kid has a fever come get them and they ask the fever number you say 101.8 and they say... "well that's under 104".

I'm not saying people are stupid. I'm saying that the human brain has a hard time with these kinds of numbers and it will be a source of continiuous education and back and forth with parents over what IS and ISN'T considered ill.

So wisely... many school districts across the nation choose the 100 flat even temp. This is a number that CAN very eaasily be remembered by ALL. It's only .4 degrees lower than the "real" fever number but it's a safe policy and an understandable policy for the MASSES.

Some school districts will pick 101 for their general policy and then lower it when there are outbreaks of illness like swine flu.

My point is there is more to consider here when deciding exactly what YOUR policy is going to be. With my population I find it easier to sit at the even 100 degrees and then "I" make the decision thereafter if I want to risk it. I don't put a "point... four" behind it because it will cause too much conflict in the future. Even now when I call them to tell them they have a fever of 100.6 they go ... He's got a fever of 106 YUP had that happen. What they HEAR and understand with the temp is often quite different than what you are trying to school them on or advise them of.

100 is my advise. It's easy.. it's bottom line.. it's flexible when YOU want it to be. My school district (Des Moines Public Schools) is the largest child care provider in the State (they have over 5000 kids in their city wide child care programs from birth to twelve) and they use 100 for their child care program and they use it for a reason. It works with the masses.
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DancingQueen 03:12 AM 12-03-2010
Good information

can you tell me where you found this
Originally Posted by :
Currently the American Academy of Pediatrics reccommends that teething can cause fevers up to 100.4.
I'd love to be able to refer to it if parents give me a hard time.
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nannyde 04:26 AM 12-03-2010
Originally Posted by DancingQueen:
Good information

can you tell me where you found this


I'd love to be able to refer to it if parents give me a hard time.
http://www.aap.org/oralhealth/pact/ch2_sect5.cfm

It is also important to know that more serious symptoms such as fever (temperature >100.4º F) and diarrhea should not be attributed to teething and may require further evaluation to rule out a bacterial source of infection.
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jen 06:38 AM 12-03-2010
Originally Posted by Unregistered:
Ask ANY school also they do NOT send kids home UNLESS the temp is 101 or higher BECAUSE lower then 101 is NOT considered a fever, FYI rectal, underarm, oral it doesnt matter where you take it it doesnt change the outcome never heard that one before might wanna brush up on your stuff lol.
It frightens me a little that you didn't realize that rectal, oral and auxillary temps are different or that fevers mean different things for different ages.

Please take a moment to brush up on your stuff....

http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/fir...-fever/FA00063
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nikia 06:44 AM 12-03-2010
Originally Posted by jen:
It frightens me a little that you didn't realize that rectal, oral and auxillary temps are different or that fevers mean different things for different ages.

Please take a moment to brush up on your stuff....

http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/fir...-fever/FA00063
I agree that is one of the first things my doctor told me when bringing my babies home from the hospital. He told me they will vary and for infants the most accurate was rectal, this was quite a few years ago so I dont know if the rectal part is true, but I do know that the different areas give different temps. Thanks for sharing the link with everyone.
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Blackcat31 06:49 AM 12-03-2010
I also think it pays to know each individual child because with my own, my DD could have a 99.9 temp and be all glossy eyed and lethargic, while my DS could run around like a wild man at 104.0. So fevers definitely affect everyone differently. If I have a kid who has 100.0 F and isn't acting differently than normal I'm ok with it, but if they havwe a 99.9 F and act oddly, then I'll call parent and ask to have them picked up.
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DanceMom 06:59 AM 12-03-2010
My temp cut off used to be 101 but the schools ( I believe last year ) all changed their guidelines to 100.4. I changed mine immediately to anything at or above 100.0 is required pick up - I dont care what the reason is - teething or not 100.0 you go home. I do not play around with sickness AT ALL in my daycare..because the minute a kid gets sick *I* get blamed...SO anything in my policy is 100% strictly enforced..no swaying at all as if I do once they will expect it again and again.
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meli829 07:14 AM 12-03-2010
Turns out dcb really WAS sick and is not here again today. I'm glad I sent him home when I did to prevent my daughter, myself (I'm pregnant) and the other daycare kids from getting sick. I will be very firm on my sickness policy from now on, this has been a great reinforcement.
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DancingQueen 07:17 AM 12-03-2010
I called my ped. They said 100.4 is what they would suggest. Just got off the phone with them.
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nikia 07:25 AM 12-03-2010
Originally Posted by DanceMom:
My temp cut off used to be 101 but the schools ( I believe last year ) all changed their guidelines to 100.4. I changed mine immediately to anything at or above 100.0 is required pick up - I dont care what the reason is - teething or not 100.0 you go home. I do not play around with sickness AT ALL in my daycare..because the minute a kid gets sick *I* get blamed...SO anything in my policy is 100% strictly enforced..no swaying at all as if I do once they will expect it again and again.
Can you come give me a backbone I always seem to give in. Unless it is about my kids or something like that otherwise I always let myself be inconvienced (sp) so my daycare parents are happy.
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Blackcat31 07:34 AM 12-03-2010
Hey! That could be a business on the side! When ever a DC parent asks for something outside of the contract or wants to get away with something I need someone who would be willing to be my backbone! I will just hand parents that person's phone # or e-mail address and say "Run it by this person, and if it is okay with them then I'll abide by it!" So "Backbone on the Side" should advertise so I can hire them!! I'll pay well!! $$$
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DanceMom 07:35 AM 12-03-2010
Originally Posted by nikia:
Can you come give me a backbone I always seem to give in. Unless it is about my kids or something like that otherwise I always let myself be inconvienced (sp) so my daycare parents are happy.
Unfortunately this is the only thing I have a backbone for...and I just got it last year when one kid came with a cold for like a month and it turned into RSV and wiped out the entire daycare - from that I emailed all parents and said I will be 100% strict with my sick policy requiring doctor notes for a lot of sickness going fwd. I had parents mad that their kid got RSV, that one was sent here by a parent when they shouldnt have etc .... it was a mess. Unfortunately I learned the hard way but thankfully because of the RSV wipe out no one fights me on it.
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Crystal 12:28 PM 12-03-2010
If you have no backbone, try practicing what you are going to say. Over, and over, and over. Even try it in the mirror, or get your spouse to be the "parent" and say it to him, even have him try to negotiate you down. If you are well prepared, and well-versed, they can't change your mind when the conversation starts.

Also, parents only take advanatage, abuse and use us if we let them. You cannot be afraid to say "this is what is best for ALL of the children in care, and, unfortunately for you, your child is not ALL of the children in care, so you and I must abide by the program policies, which are (fill in the blank).

You set your policies for a reason. They signed your contract beause they agreed with those policies. ENFORCE THEM. Don't be afraid to stick up for yourself, you'll only be resentful in the end.
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nikia 01:02 PM 12-03-2010
Originally Posted by Blackcat31:
Hey! That could be a business on the side! When ever a DC parent asks for something outside of the contract or wants to get away with something I need someone who would be willing to be my backbone! I will just hand parents that person's phone # or e-mail address and say "Run it by this person, and if it is okay with them then I'll abide by it!" So "Backbone on the Side" should advertise so I can hire them!! I'll pay well!! $$$
Lol love it.
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