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Kimberli 05:16 PM 10-16-2012
The parents who filed a complaint against me because I placed their toddler in multiple time outs in one day before terminating him at pick up because he was pushing children down, turning over furniture, spitting and throwing toys across the room served me with the court papers today.

Not only are they suing me for $3500 in reimbursement for 5 months of full time child care, they are asking for $1500 in 'punitive damages' ... bringing their suit to the maximum one can request in small claims court - $5000.

Happy Tuesday ... and the saga continues.
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EntropyControlSpecialist 05:28 PM 10-16-2012
There's no limits on how many time outs a toddler can have beyond the usual 1 minute per year of age. If the child acts naughty 10 times, then put that child in time out 10 times if that's what works for you.

What a mess. I'm sorry you're having to deal with this garbage.
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HappyHearts 05:29 PM 10-16-2012
Holy smokes!!!! Why would she think she should get a refund for care that was already provided for, for 5 months? I can't see how she would ever win that, or punitive damages.

I am so very sorry Kimberli, I have no advice, but plenty of virtual hugs!!
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crazydaycarelady 05:36 PM 10-16-2012
She WON'T get the refund - you provided the service and they kept using it for 5 months!
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daycare 05:38 PM 10-16-2012
I cannot belive my eyes right now...;But his is sue happy CA... I have heard some of the most unrealistic things that people have sued for.

I think what is sad, is that the State is not backing you and you are in this on your own. makes me feel as a provider that I will never be safe in my job. I love every single one of my DCKs as I am sure you do too.

So are you able to counter sue them for all of the crap they have done to you. Is it possible to claim the stress the child caused you daily? One of my friends is out on disability from her DC job because the owner keeps horrible children like the one that you termed and it made her have a nervous break down.

I am just so so sorry for you...... UGH I hope that there really is some light at the end of the tunnel...
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Kaddidle Care 05:39 PM 10-16-2012
She wants a refund of 5 months? Ummm - I sincerely doubt you have anything to worry about. Punitive damages? For Time Outs?

Welcome to Silly Season.

Deep breaths hon - when is your day in court? Do keep us posted. I hope the Judge throws her out on her ear and charges her for wasting everyone's time.
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daycare 05:41 PM 10-16-2012
Originally Posted by EntropyControlSpecialist:
There's no limits on how many time outs a toddler can have beyond the usual 1 minute per year of age. If the child acts naughty 10 times, then put that child in time out 10 times if that's what works for you.

What a mess. I'm sorry you're having to deal with this garbage.
perhaps you missed her other post.....I guess in CA we are not allowed to do this.....????????

Yeah I am still trying to figure this out too...I feel horrible for the OP...
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MizzCheryl 05:42 PM 10-16-2012
Prayers and hugs to you.
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EntropyControlSpecialist 05:43 PM 10-16-2012
Originally Posted by daycare:
perhaps you missed her other post.....I guess in CA we are not allowed to do this.....????????

Yeah I am still trying to figure this out too...I feel horrible for the OP...
Whaaaaat? So ... what ARE you allowed to do? That is just baffling to me.
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momofsix 05:48 PM 10-16-2012
So sorry. Maybe you could have the judge read the forum responses to see that you aren't the problem here. He should be able to see through this parent by himself though-if care was so bad why in the world would they keep the child there for 5 whole months
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daycare 05:50 PM 10-16-2012
Originally Posted by EntropyControlSpecialist:
Whaaaaat? So ... what ARE you allowed to do? That is just baffling to me.
not sure what her old post is under and she can perhaps explain better than I can. But basically in CA the rules are written horribly. There is so much grey area in them that the licencors are able to interpret the rules how they see fit.

So we could be following the written words to a "T", yet the analyst that comes out to visit your house can decide differently if they decide to do so.

It is the most absurd thing that I have ever read and I hope that the OP gets her glory in the end with both licensing and the DCP...
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countrymom 06:02 PM 10-16-2012
big hugs to you. Sending you postive winning vibes and I hope karma bites them in the arse!
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saved4always 06:18 PM 10-16-2012
Wow. This child is going to turn out to be a horror if the parents are going to sue because he was out of control and put in time out. Nice message to the child: "I can do anything I want and no one can do a thing about it. In fact, if you try to correct me in any way, my mommy and daddy will sue you".

I am so sorry that these people have turned out to be money grubbing jerks taking advantage of something that should not have been a big deal in the first place. I personally don't think they are going to win. If they are suing over time out and trying to get money back for a service they used happily for 5 months, I would hope a judge would throw them out of court. I know that doesn't keep you from stressing about it and I hope this is over soon!
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mom2many 07:00 PM 10-16-2012
This is insane & horrible that you are now dealing with this too.
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Lyss 07:02 PM 10-16-2012
I'm soooo sorry!! This is just terrible and so completely unfair. I can not even believe that this has gone this far.

Not sure if this has been suggested yet or not but is there a local network for providers in your area? Maybe you can get a few other providers to come to your defense at the hearing about the vagueness of the laws? Or maybe check with a workers union for your area (like AFSCME or SEIU if you have them there) that works with home care providers? I'm not really familiar with the unions but I get flyer's trying to get me to sign up and offering assistance in our state so maybe they are in CA as well?
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nanglgrl 07:16 PM 10-16-2012
This is horrible. I would try to get the media involved, maybe that would be harder there than here though as often we have no "real" news to report. I had to do some digging on this because it's so horrible and I wish their was something I could do. I haven't found anything yet except a daycare named "A Good Time Out" in California....maybe someone should tell them they might want to change their name!
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Crystal 07:21 PM 10-16-2012
Oh dear lord, what next???

I think all of us Ca. providers need to get together, conduct a participatory action research project on California Licensing Regulations and DEMAND some changes be made with regulations....there MUST be some continuity in how regulations are provided to providers and all regulations must enforced consistently by ALL licensing analysts.

This is ridiculous.

Kimberli......don't sweat it....I imagine any judge in ther right mind will laugh these parents right out of court.
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Crystal 07:45 PM 10-16-2012
Originally Posted by EntropyControlSpecialist:
Whaaaaat? So ... what ARE you allowed to do? That is just baffling to me.
We can redirect, give limited choice, use deferred gratification, natural consequences.....it is supposed to be about modifying behavior by helping children learn to self-regulate.

I believe in it, but I do not believe that it works for every child.

When a provider has dealt with TOO much from a child, and has exhausted all other methods of ceasing the behavior issues, (such as in OP's case) then I feel it best to remove the child from the situation, help them cool off with TIME AWAY (read: time-out) from the rest of the group. In addition to helping the child it helps the PROVIDER regain control and take a break from the INTOLERABLE behavior exhibited by this child.
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Willow 07:53 PM 10-16-2012
I'd be counter-suing for harassment and lost wages.
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sharlan 08:02 PM 10-16-2012
I'm really sorry that you're going through this. I hope you have the support of your other families who will back you up. Get notorized statements from everybody who ever witnessed this child in your home.
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shelby 08:37 PM 10-16-2012
OH. MY. WORD. I am so sorry! Hopefully you will get a judge with some common sense and laugh these parents out of the court room!
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EntropyControlSpecialist 08:41 PM 10-16-2012
Originally Posted by Crystal:
We can redirect, give limited choice, use deferred gratification, natural consequences.....it is supposed to be about modifying behavior by helping children learn to self-regulate.

I believe in it, but I do not believe that it works for every child.

When a provider has dealt with TOO much from a child, and has exhausted all other methods of ceasing the behavior issues, (such as in OP's case) then I feel it best to remove the child from the situation, help them cool off with TIME AWAY (read: time-out) from the rest of the group. In addition to helping the child it helps the PROVIDER regain control and take a break from the INTOLERABLE behavior exhibited by this child.
I absolutely believe in that as well.
However, some children just don't do well with all of the wonderful things we would like to give them. I have 12 children that do fantastically with all that you listed and then a 13th child who "just wants to be bad." Just like you said, sometimes a time out is needed.
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mom2many 09:52 PM 10-16-2012
Originally Posted by Crystal:
Oh dear lord, what next???

I think all of us Ca. providers need to get together, conduct a participatory action research project on California Licensing Regulations and DEMAND some changes be made with regulations....there MUST be some continuity in how regulations are provided to providers and all regulations must enforced consistently by ALL licensing analysts.

This is ridiculous.

Kimberli......don't sweat it....I imagine any judge in ther right mind will laugh these parents right out of court.
I would totally be willing to do whatever I can in regards to this. Something needs to be done to rectify inconsistencies in CA Licensing Regs.
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SilverSabre25 05:29 AM 10-17-2012








That's one of the stupidest things I've heard in awhile. I hope that advocate person gets back to you--pronto!
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Lilbutterflie 06:18 AM 10-17-2012
That is AWFUL! First, that they would sue you for services you already provided AND for punitive damages for a timeout (). Second, that CA does not allow this or isn't clear on the issue in their regulations. What the H-E double hockey sticks are you supposed to do? Sit there & let the child hit, push, kick and spit on you? Where are the regulations that protect the provider & other children from being abused by violent children???

Please keep us updated. Honestly, if I were you, I'd be contacting the local news stations over this. It's just absolutely absurd. Once the issue has been publicized in the media, there will be much more pressure on CA licensing to make new, clear, concise, regulations protecting everyone involved with violent children.
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Meeko 07:10 AM 10-17-2012
Wait for the "shake down". They will probably offer to drop the whole thing for a cash payout that is less than they are suing for.

I once had this happen to me. I sent home a happy, healthly 2 year old. About 4 hours later, the mom called and wanted to know what happened to her son's tongue as it was bleeding profusely

I told her I had no idea and he had left here with no injury and big smile on his face when he saw his mom. If his tongue had been that badly injured, he would have been bleeding all over the place.

She never showed back up at day care and I shortly got a letter from an attorney, threatening me with court for injuring her son.

However....they would gladly forget the whole thing and wouldn't drag me to court if I paid $5000 !!!

I replied with "bring it on". I also let them know that the day she left the daycare, the police officer who lives at the end of my cul-de-sac saw her get air going over the speed bumps in the road. He called me to say he was going to ticket her if he saw her again.

I am convinced the child bit his tongue as she flew down my road. There are three sets of speed bumps before getting to the main road.

I never heard from them again.

Try not to panic. Any judge will see right through them....if it even goes that far.

Stick to your guns, hold your head high..........we're all behind you with good wishes!
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mom2many 07:47 AM 10-17-2012
Originally Posted by Lilbutterflie:
That is AWFUL! First, that they would sue you for services you already provided AND for punitive damages for a timeout (). Second, that CA does not allow this or isn't clear on the issue in their regulations. What the H-E double hockey sticks are you supposed to do? Sit there & let the child hit, push, kick and spit on you? Where are the regulations that protect the provider & other children from being abused by violent children???

Please keep us updated. Honestly, if I were you, I'd be contacting the local news stations over this. It's just absolutely absurd. Once the issue has been publicized in the media, there will be much more pressure on CA licensing to make new, clear, concise, regulations protecting everyone involved with violent children.
This brings up a good point..."Personal Rights" are such a huge issue with CA Licensing, but what about the rights of the OP and the children in her care?? Even if they want to disregard her rights, you'd think the State would be concerned about protecting innocent children from "bully like" behavior...even if it is coming from a 18 mth. old. Spitting and pushing other children down is totally unacceptable...what if he had thrown a toy and hit another child and seriously hurt them?

Anti Bullying campaigns are huge within the schools nationwide. This type of behavior begins somewhere and if a child is taught at an early age that it holds no consequences and that anyone telling him otherwise opens themselves up to a potential lawsuit...what is going to happen then?

I'm praying that the right people hear this case & agree it needs to be brought to the attention of the general population.

I hope the child advocacy agency will get back to you soon and give you some help in this mess.

Hugs!
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sharlan 09:05 AM 10-17-2012
In CA it's all about the "parent's rights" and the child's personal rights. The provider has no rights. We are presumed guilty until proven innocent.

We even have to have a "Notification of Parent's Rights" poster posted by the front door to remind the parents of their rights. (http://www.dss.cahwnet.gov/cdssweb/e...sh/pub394L.pdf)
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slpender 09:18 AM 10-17-2012
I'm sorry you are ging through this. Some parents today do not want to deal with the children's behavior issues and want to blame it on everyone else. You did the best that you could with the resources you had. I feel if you and your assiant have the proper documentation everything will work out to your advantage. What are these parents going to do when this child enters the school system sue every teacher that cannot handle their child's behavior?
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Sugar Magnolia 10:18 AM 10-17-2012
Mean people suck. Those people are meanies. Booooo.
((((hugs)))))
Fight 'em, tooth and nail.
You should set up a defense fund. If all the members here chip in, you might get a start on the cost of fighting it. Make a free website with Weebly and include a paypal account. I'm in.....ladies? Gentleman?
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