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Daycare Center and Family Home Forum>Point of Grace Preschool in Waukee
nannyde 04:36 AM 08-24-2011
http://www.kcci.com/video/28955439/detail.html

Day Care Demands Workers Sign Strict Agreement
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mac60 04:53 AM 08-24-2011
Wow, just wow. I don't understand how they can get away with this. Fine line for sure.

We have a local company that when they put help wanted ads in the paper, they added, "only non tobacco users will be considered". After talking to a couple people I know in HR, I was told that they can not do that.....the same company has an ad in the paper again, and it says "We are waiving our non tobacco use rule, tobacco users are welcome to apply". Funny, I think something must of happened for them to change this.

Isn't it against the law to even ask some of these things......while they are not necessarily asking them, they are making the employees sign an agreement that they are not gay, attend church, don't cuss, etc. Seems a little eccentric to me. The school better watch it, they may not have any enrollment after all of this.
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Cat Herder 05:00 AM 08-24-2011
I guess I side with the Church.

Anyone who knows me knows that is very ironic as I am not a fan of organized religion and Mega Churches make my blood boil......

IMHO, If I was going to apply for a job at a Church those are characteristics I would already KNOW they were going to expect.

It is a private business. ....errr, umm, Religious House of Worship.

If they want you to wear a monkey suit, and you are their employee...well, wear the dang monkey suit.
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Kaddidle Care 06:01 AM 08-24-2011
I think it's just a way of cleaning house for the new employer. I wonder if the previous owner hired anyone that walked through the door. Perhaps they interviewed past clients and found out that Worker Janey has the worst reputation in town and Worker Mary is at the local bar every night and has to be driven home by police. Who knows?

What people do at home or behind closed doors is none of an employer's business. Now if they are doing something that affects their ability to care for children, that's another story. I have no problem with an employer running a backround check or doing drug testing.

I personally would not sign that contract. It's almost cult-like and it is certainly discriminatory. "Their house, their rules" - I wonder if they will have enough Staff to open in September.
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daysofelijah 06:13 AM 08-24-2011
It's a church preschool it's their right to hire who they want. Every Christian school I have gone to and church school I have worked at has a Christian lifestyle statement you must sign in order to attend/work there. I don't think it's anything new.

I worked as an elementary teacher at a private Baptist school before I got married, part of their requirement was that I attend their church. When I got married dh wanted me to attend his church. They let me go at the end of the year because I wasn't attending their church anymore. Yes, I felt bad and frustrated about it, but it was all within their right to do so.
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mac60 06:16 AM 08-24-2011
They are taking away a freedom, that I thought was a right living here in the states.
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Kaddidle Care 06:22 AM 08-24-2011
Originally Posted by daysofelijah:
It's a church preschool it's their right to hire who they want. Every Christian school I have gone to and church school I have worked at has a Christian lifestyle statement you must sign in order to attend/work there. I don't think it's anything new.

I worked as an elementary teacher at a private Baptist school before I got married, part of their requirement was that I attend their church. When I got married dh wanted me to attend his church. They let me go at the end of the year because I wasn't attending their church anymore. Yes, I felt bad and frustrated about it, but it was all within their right to do so.
I work for a Christian School and we are not required to sign any such thing. While some of us attend the Church, others do not. I don't even know if they are all Christians - it's not my business. I think we have a great staff IMHO. I would trust each and every one with my own child.

I will say that working there 5 days a week AND attending Church and church functions, there are days that I feel like I live there. Where's my cot?
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daysofelijah 06:23 AM 08-24-2011
Originally Posted by mac60:
They are taking away a freedom, that I thought was a right living here in the states.
No they're not. No one is forcing anyone to work there. If you don't agree with their requirements you can choose not to work for them.
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nannyde 06:37 AM 08-24-2011
What I want to know is do they require these Christian Evangelical standards for their clients too?

Are they going to make sure that the Christian staff they hire aren't exposed to clients who are drinkers, smokers, having children out of wedlock, and not going to church? Are they going to make sure that none of the children they provide care for are being raised in a homosexual family, have parents who use profanity, or view PorXgraphy?

If they are setting it up so they don't PAY anyone who is not "godly" then they should stand behind it and not RECEIVE money from anyone who isn't too.

This is going to be a niche market that's going to cost them some serious money. They better have something besides client tuition to pay for these christian workers. When they realize they are few and far between.... when they realize that it's not just what the employee SAYS at hiring but actually what they DO IRL away from work... they are going to have a TON of staff time fettering out who is and isn't living according to their contract. When the staff who ARE doing as they want realize they are a rare commodity they are going to want money for it. They are also going to be paying some serious unemployment percentages. In Iowa it can be as much as eight percent of the TOTAL payroll (IIRC). It's going to be tough to win unemployment claims with a contract like this.

That's my prediction.
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Springdaze 06:40 AM 08-24-2011
I guess its easy for me to agree with the church, although I did live with my husband before we got married I also have applied for jobs in Christian schools and have had to write pretty detailed answers to questions about my lifestyle. I wouldnt want to work in a place that was that strict if I didnt agree to follow the rules.
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Springdaze 06:41 AM 08-24-2011
oh, but it does stink that they are changing it and people are losing their jobs. Its different if you know going into it, but to have the job already is not good
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Meeko 07:17 AM 08-24-2011
While it is sad that some workers will lose their jobs...it is the right of the owner to run their business any way they see fit. That's how we do it, right? WE make the rules and policies of our own day care. These people are doing the same.
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Cat Herder 07:24 AM 08-24-2011
Originally Posted by nannyde:
When the staff who ARE doing as they want realize they are a rare commodity they are going to want money for it.
....at that time, like every other business in the U.S, the employer will lower the standards.
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Country Kids 07:34 AM 08-24-2011
Originally Posted by nannyde:
What I want to know is do they require these Christian Evangelical standards for their clients too?

Are they going to make sure that the Christian staff they hire aren't exposed to clients who are drinkers, smokers, having children out of wedlock, and not going to church? Are they going to make sure that none of the children they provide care for are being raised in a homosexual family, have parents who use profanity, or view PorXgraphy?

If they are setting it up so they don't PAY anyone who is not "godly" then they should stand behind it and not RECEIVE money from anyone who isn't too.

This is going to be a niche market that's going to cost them some serious money. They better have something besides client tuition to pay for these christian workers. When they realize they are few and far between.... when they realize that it's not just what the employee SAYS at hiring but actually what they DO IRL away from work... they are going to have a TON of staff time fettering out who is and isn't living according to their contract. When the staff who ARE doing as they want realize they are a rare commodity they are going to want money for it. They are also going to be paying some serious unemployment percentages. In Iowa it can be as much as eight percent of the TOTAL payroll (IIRC). It's going to be tough to win unemployment claims with a contract like this.

That's my prediction.
I myself run a Christian Preschool in my home and I don't expect to have all Christians for clients. What I do tell at my interviews are that yes, I do run a Christian program, there will be praying, singing, listening to a Christian radio station. We do celebrate birthdays and other holidays! Also, we do support our soldiers and go to the parades to do so. I do have a lady that comes in and tells Bible stories and sing songs with the children. One week in the summer I used to have a mini vacation Bible school where a group would come in and tell stories, do crafts, sing, etc.

I let them know what I do for my preschool because in the past I have had clients of certain religions that want me to change to suit their specific beliefs.
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CheekyChick 07:39 AM 08-24-2011
Originally Posted by nannyde:
What I want to know is do they require these Christian Evangelical standards for their clients too?

Are they going to make sure that the Christian staff they hire aren't exposed to clients who are drinkers, smokers, having children out of wedlock, and not going to church? Are they going to make sure that none of the children they provide care for are being raised in a homosexual family, have parents who use profanity, or view PorXgraphy?

If they are setting it up so they don't PAY anyone who is not "godly" then they should stand behind it and not RECEIVE money from anyone who isn't too.

This is going to be a niche market that's going to cost them some serious money. They better have something besides client tuition to pay for these christian workers. When they realize they are few and far between.... when they realize that it's not just what the employee SAYS at hiring but actually what they DO IRL away from work... they are going to have a TON of staff time fettering out who is and isn't living according to their contract. When the staff who ARE doing as they want realize they are a rare commodity they are going to want money for it. They are also going to be paying some serious unemployment percentages. In Iowa it can be as much as eight percent of the TOTAL payroll (IIRC). It's going to be tough to win unemployment claims with a contract like this.

That's my prediction.
I have no idea about this school, but at my daughters' Christian school, the staff, parents, AND children had to be Christian. They wouldn't enroll non-Christians just for the tuition. They even required a yearly letter from our pastor and/or pastoral staff - stating we attended church on a regular basis.
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momofsix 07:39 AM 08-24-2011
As others have said, very common in private schools. If I made the choice to send my child to a church-based childcare center it would be with the expectation that the teachers would be Christians;that would be what sets it apart from the daycare"'across the street".
We live in a city that has quite a few Christian colleges, and even the profs there sigh lifestyle agreements upon being hired. If colleges can have profs do it them I'm sure a preschool/daycare can get away with it!
I don't see them having a hard time making money at all...we have many Christian daycares, preschools, dayschools and as mentioned earlier, colleges. They all cost a fortune!
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mac60 08:01 AM 08-24-2011
Originally Posted by daysofelijah:
No they're not. No one is forcing anyone to work there. If you don't agree with their requirements you can choose not to work for them.
But there are certain things they can not disqualify you for work. And yes they are discriminating in these situation.
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wdmmom 08:04 AM 08-24-2011
With the economy being in the crapper as it is, now they feel the need to do this?!

I didn't realize that we were letting the world come to this type of behavior!

Doesn't "God's Book" also say not to judge people?!

I think that's what all of these rules are...judgements! Be a puppet or be gone! SAD!!!
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mac60 08:04 AM 08-24-2011
Originally Posted by Meeko60:
While it is sad that some workers will lose their jobs...it is the right of the owner to run their business any way they see fit. That's how we do it, right? WE make the rules and policies of our own day care. These people are doing the same.
Yes, but I would think we could get in trouble if we were state licensed and said I can't allow you in my daycare because you are not Catholic, drink beer, have premarital sex, say **** on occassion, I could go on and on. What if a potential employee is athiest.....I don't think you can discriminate this way.
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Blackcat31 08:26 AM 08-24-2011
Originally Posted by mac60:
Yes, but I would think we could get in trouble if we were state licensed and said I can't allow you in my daycare because you are not Catholic, drink beer, have premarital sex, say **** on occassion, I could go on and on. What if a potential employee is athiest.....I don't think you can discriminate this way.
Correct me if I am wrong, but I think church's do not have to follow the normal discrimination rules that every other business needs to abide by. I think churches are licensed but have a lot of loopholes made just for them.


"A religious entity is a religious organization or an entity controlled by a religious organization, including a place of worship and parochial schools.

Section 307 of the ADA provides that religious organizations and entities controlled by religious organizations are not subject to the requirements for public accommodations or commercial facilities under Title III of the Act. Religious organizations, such as Synagogues and religious-controlled schools may, however, accommodate individuals with disabilities at their own discretion, and do not waive their exemption from the requirements of Title III by doing so.

A religious entity is permitted to give preference in employment to individuals of a particular religion. A religious entity may require that all applicants and employees conform to the religious tenets of such organization."

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Cat Herder 08:34 AM 08-24-2011
I thought many Churches sold discrimination as a product....

Yep, I am going to pay for that one....

Eh, I am still bitter about the whole Churches protesting at Military Funerals thing.... You know...the guys dying because of Religious wars and all
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wdmmom 08:47 AM 08-24-2011
Originally Posted by Catherder:
I thought many Churches sold discrimination as a product....

Yep, I am going to pay for that one....

Eh, I am still bitter about the whole Churches protesting at Military Funerals thing.... You know...the guys dying because of Religious wars and all
I LIKE YOU!

You always say (or type) the things I think about but never do!
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familyschoolcare 09:05 AM 08-24-2011
Originally Posted by mac60:
Yes, but I would think we could get in trouble if we were state licensed and said I can't allow you in my daycare because you are not Catholic, drink beer, have premarital sex, say **** on occassion, I could go on and on. What if a potential employee is athiest.....I don't think you can discriminate this way.
you can put those limit on employees for religious purposes that is why every "demand" has a scripture verse to go with it that is what makes it legal
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familyschoolcare 09:09 AM 08-24-2011
Originally Posted by Catherder:

Eh, I am still bitter about the whole Churches protesting at Military Funerals thing.... You know...the guys dying because of Religious wars and all
yes however, their are more people on the side of stopping them than are on the side of protesting. If you are interested in helping this cause PM letting me know where you live and I will see if I can get you contact info. for helping to stop the people protesting have done it once with my mother we went and stood outside on the sidewalk so that their was no room for protester.
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familyschoolcare 09:11 AM 08-24-2011
I have signed a similar employee contract. However, mine was not as detailed just stated employees must live according to biblical principals.
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Cat Herder 09:16 AM 08-24-2011
Originally Posted by familyschoolcare:
yes however, their are more people on the side of stopping them than are on the side of protesting. If you are interested in helping this cause PM letting me know where you live and I will see if I can get you contact info. for helping to stop the people protesting have done it once with my mother we went and stood outside on the sidewalk so that their was no room for protester.
Thanks.

We are a former Military family...

We do the "Mirror" line....

We have few to no protesters around here any more.
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wdmmom 09:25 AM 08-24-2011
Ok guys...I have to laugh here!

Think about this from a logical standpoint:

These people are watching children!

Where do children come from: SEX (we know all the scientific mumbo jumbo)

Now this pre-school is saying you can't have sex if you aren't married, or are gay/lesbian, etc.

Now where do you think some of those children attending are an exact result of 2 people having sex while unmarried???

I'd be willing to bet on it!

Just another case of someone wanting money and not caring how they get it but thinks they have the upper hand on how their employees should behave!

I wouldn't meet ANY of their criteria!!!

I had a child out of wedlock, I was divorced and lived with someone for 3 years before we were married.

I drink every once in awhile, I have watched **** and if I wanna say sh!t or the dreaded "F" word every so often, I'm entitled!

It's called a freedom of speech!

I really think that if this church can find "gray" in the law, someone is going to find the black and white and have an attorney interpret it and this will just be another church blasted on the news! YAY!

Are they worried about the priests behaving badly?! (I know I'm going to hell for that one!)
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Crystal 09:36 AM 08-24-2011
Are they worried about the priests behaving badly?! (I know I'm going to hell for that one!)

They should be.
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mac60 10:20 AM 08-24-2011
It just goes to show you how the different faiths tend to think this or that is morally correct, all the while the majority wouldn't. In my book, what this church daycare has done is very discriminatory to their current/potential employees, whether it is legal or not. In my book it is not morally correct judging people they way they do.
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Kaddidle Care 10:24 AM 08-24-2011
Originally Posted by nannyde:
They are also going to be paying some serious unemployment percentages. In Iowa it can be as much as eight percent of the TOTAL payroll (IIRC). It's going to be tough to win unemployment claims with a contract like this.

That's my prediction.
Not necessarily. If they are a Non-Profit they don't have to pay into Unemployment Insurance. I work for one - if I get fired or laid off, I get zilch, nada, zip.
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nannyde 10:28 AM 08-24-2011
Originally Posted by Blackcat31:
A religious entity is permitted to give preference in employment to individuals of a particular religion. A religious entity may require that all applicants and employees conform to the religious tenets of such organization." [/i]
There it is.
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laundrymom 11:08 AM 08-24-2011
I can't open it, can someone paraphrase?
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laundrymom 11:21 AM 08-24-2011
Originally Posted by Catherder:
I thought many Churches sold discrimination as a product....

Yep, I am going to pay for that one....

Eh, I am still bitter about the whole Churches protesting at Military Funerals thing.... You know...the guys dying because of Religious wars and all
I have to add, that is a select group of extremists who are following a Shepard who is leading his flock astray. It's not the norm. A few bad apples who are not supported by any other churches, religions, or leaders.
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unregistered member 11:23 AM 08-24-2011
That video is scary. The daycare owner must be a crazy person or completely warped. I'd never work there and would never send my children to a building with rules like that. Views like that belong at home NOT in the work place.

Wow. Scary..
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Blackcat31 11:24 AM 08-24-2011
Originally Posted by laundrymom:
I can't open it, can someone paraphrase?
It wasn't a link, I just underlined the section of the ADA act that specifies that religious entities have special rules and can dictate what their employees do and/or don't do. They are operating well within their means as a religious organization and are not breaking any laws in regards to discrimination.
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laundrymom 11:26 AM 08-24-2011
Originally Posted by Blackcat31:
It wasn't a link, I just underlined the section of the ADA act that specifies that religious entities have special rules and can dictate what their employees do and/or don't do. They are operating well within their means as a religious organization and are not breaking any laws in regards to discrimination.
No the story, im on an iPod and apple flashplayer are not in kahoots yet. Lol
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sharlan 11:32 AM 08-24-2011
It's their church, their preschool, they're within their legal rights.

I do not agree with them, but they didn't ask my opinion.
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Blackcat31 11:32 AM 08-24-2011
Originally Posted by laundrymom:
No the story, im on an iPod and apple flashplayer are not in kahoots yet. Lol
Oops, sorry, didn't dawn on me that you meant the OP link...duh! LOL! It is a story about a religious daycare who is dictating the behaviors of it's emplyees outside their work hours. Such as no drinking, premarital s e x and other "frowned" upon behaviors that are not good behaviors according to the church. This will apply to new and current employees.

If the employees want to keep their jobs with the new owners they will need to sign an contract or agreement stating they will not partake in "sinful" behavior.

That is pretty much the cliff notes on it.
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Cat Herder 11:40 AM 08-24-2011
Originally Posted by laundrymom:
I have to add, that is a select group of extremists who are following a Shepard who is leading his flock astray. It's not the norm. A few bad apples who are not supported by any other churches, religions, or leaders.
Oh, hun..... I know that. I believe in Faith. With my heart and soul. I know I have a purpose.

I just don't believe in segregation or damnation.

I live in the rural (deep/dirty) south notorious for many "extremists" so I get to see alot more of the bad apples.

Pay me no attention, ok?
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laundrymom 11:50 AM 08-24-2011
Originally Posted by Blackcat31:
Oops, sorry, didn't dawn on me that you meant the OP link...duh! LOL! It is a story about a religious daycare who is dictating the behaviors of it's emplyees outside their work hours. Such as no drinking, premarital s e x and other "frowned" upon behaviors that are not good behaviors according to the church. This will apply to new and current employees.

If the employees want to keep their jobs with the new owners they will need to sign an contract or agreement stating they will not partake in "sinful" behavior.

That is pretty much the cliff notes on it.
Thanks. :-)
Wow, my take would be,...hmmm well if I sent my child to a church daycare, and found out my Childs caregiver was pool hall hoochie. I would be upset. I would have chosen the daycare that best fits my personal beliefs. And finding out the teacher was oUt
Doing things against my belief system. I'd pull my kid.

I see it no different than requiring employees to not have visible tattoos, keep hair cut a certain way, be clean shaven, or drive a particular car to work. Those are the conditions of the job. Like it or not. It's a condition of employment. I think there should be a time period for current employees to either find alternative employment or change their lifestyle. I do think they will have trouble finding people to work, but think they are well in their rights to put conditions on employment.
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laundrymom 11:51 AM 08-24-2011
Originally Posted by Catherder:
Oh, hun..... I know that. I believe in Faith. With my heart and soul. I know I have a purpose.

I just don't believe in segregation or damnation.

I live in the rural (deep/dirty) south notorious for many "extremists" so I get to see alot more of the bad apples.

Pay me no attention, ok?
:-). Still buddies ????
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Cat Herder 11:51 AM 08-24-2011
Originally Posted by laundrymom:
:-). Still buddies ????
Absolutely!!!!
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wdmmom 12:00 PM 08-24-2011
While they may be able to pull this off, I really don't think it's going to boost their ratings or attendance. (I really think that's all they are hoping for.)

If you don't have full staff, you can't run full numbers!

I really think the EEOC (Equal Employment Opportunity Commission) would say that this is not equal practices of employment.

The state unemployment rate is high and this is only going to make it higher.

Sorry but the "holier than thou" can shove it! I'd quit my job too!
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MyAngels 12:16 PM 08-24-2011
I'm curious as to how they think they are going to police this. Will they have church members out with video cameras in the dark of night, peeking in folks' windows? The "P.O.R __police," I suppose .
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jen2651 12:20 PM 08-24-2011
Shouldn't the focus be on how well they take care of the kiddos?! I know tons of people who don't drink, smoke, premarital sex, blah blah blah, who are HORRIBLE with children. Unfortunately, I at one point or another have pretty much failed every one of their criteria to be a good caretaker and I am fantastic with kids! I love them, their mess, their dirt, their sloppy kisses, not their tantrums, but pretty much else...AND, not trying to get political or religious, but just because someone is gay and the church disapproves doesn't mean they can't lead a kick @ss craft time!!

I understand they are trying to make values and morals a higher priority in today's society, where it seems things are slipping and slipping. But, if my church look at my husband and I with those judgmental eyes, we would have moved on to find a different church...we had a baby out of wedlock and are now married with another one and two stepkids and we are as happy as can be - AND, I can wipe a great butt!!
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DBug 12:22 PM 08-24-2011
I think this church-operated daycare is within it's rights, both ethically and legally. I feel for the people who may have to change their own lifestyles, and I hope the church gave them plenty of notice before they have to sign this.

But I have to also wonder -- if you're working for a religious organization of any kind, wouldn't you assume that you'd need to conform to their way of doing things at some point? For cultural reasons, my archaeology prof in school told us that if we did a field school in the near east, we (the woman only) would not be allowed to wear shorts. No one questioned it at all. Because we all assumed that stepping into an area with a different world-view/belief system would require some changes on OUR part, not on the part of the people already living there.

I guess I just figure common sense would prevail when applying for a job at a religiously-run business, IMHO.
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jen 12:32 PM 08-24-2011
Personally, I'm good with this. I would much rather see an institution for what it is than try to sort through the charade of what it isn't.

In this case, I would say this daycare is selling bigotry and hate. For me, those are NOT the christian values that I subscribe to. I'm more of the "those without sin cast the first stone" and "love thy neighbor" sort of Christian.

By the way...the daughter of my gay sister goes to a private Catholic school. Her family is not only not Catholic, they are not christian. Not only does the school know, they support the child and family. Not all religious organizations are hate filled bigots....

Whenever I see institutions like the one in this article, I wonder how long it will be until we hear some Jim and Tammy Faye like horror story...just a matter of time I'd guess.
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wdmmom 12:38 PM 08-24-2011
Originally Posted by jen:
Personally, I'm good with this. I would much rather see an institution for what it is than try to sort through the charade of what it isn't.

In this case, I would say this daycare is selling bigotry and hate. For me, those are NOT the christian values that I subscribe to. I'm more of the "those without sin cast the first stone" and "love thy neighbor" sort of Christian.

By the way...the daughter of my gay sister goes to a private Catholic school. Her family is not only not Catholic, they are not christian. Not only does the school know, they support the child and family. Not all religious organizations are hate filled bigots....

Whenever I see institutions like the one in this article, I wonder how long it will be until we hear some Jim and Tammy Faye like horror story...just a matter of time I'd guess.
My thought is this:

If they want to instill these quality values in their employees, they should only be taking paychecks from people of the same values!

What are you betting they have several children on state assistance from single parent households and they have no issue collecting a check every month?!

Is it just me or is the pot calling the kettle black here?!
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youretooloud 01:33 PM 08-24-2011
I'm fine with it too. I worked in a Christian school, and not only did WE have to sign that same agreement, the students AND their parents had to also.

Kids were kicked out of school for being seen drunk even if it wasn't on school property. Teachers were fired for having affairs.

Either agree to the contract, or work at a secular school.
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Unregistered 01:50 PM 08-24-2011
I think they are within their rights. I do wish they had given more notice to the employees that they would either need to agree to these policies or find other employment. Unless this took awhile to hit the news, not a lot of notice was given.

This would probably operate on an honor code. If they find out that you are breaking it, you're fired on the spot, but I don't think they'll be hiring any private detectives.

FWIW, I know a local bible college I'd thought about attending at one point that is actually more restrictive then this. If you attend there, you can only wear specific things (skirts knees and down) and you can only listen to Christian music and read Christian books while in attendance.

I don't agree with all of their restrictions, but I do think that they are completely within their rights to do so.
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momofsix 01:52 PM 08-24-2011
I'm really praying what I type comes out the way I intend it to
I fully support this schools right to have their employees agree to this. As pps have said, if you are going to work for a church you should really expect to abide by their belief system. Also, if you send your child to a church-based school you should be able to expect the teachers to hold the beliefs of that church.

I fully expect that agreeing to the lifestyle clause is not the only condition of employment. I would expect that they would hire qualified childcare workers that care about children.

I also don't believe that they are being judgmental of others by doing this. It is a church-based school. That is what parents would expect of the staff working there. They aren't judging anyone or trying to change anyone, they just want the people that work in their preschool to have the same beliefs that are held by the church that runs/supports the school. If i were to teach in the public school system, I certainly would not expect to teach my kiddos about creation...I would have to agree to teach them the current scientific explanations. It would be silly for me to say they were discriminating/being judgmental for them to require that of me!

They may offer care to children of single parents, drug users...whatever. That is totally different. The children are not the ones teaching and guiding the other children. The adults are the ones with that influence and responsibility. Why would a church not want to help these kids-especially when there are so many of us that are unwilling to take them

I am trying to not get dragged into a huge argument here, even though that's what this whole post really is about. I am a Christian and am getting really tired of everyone and everything being OK except me and what I believe. I am a Christian-not a perfect person. I mess up all the time! I am a pastor's wife-and my first child was born out of wedlock I can't even hide it (not that I would, of course) b/c my dh and all our children together are of a different race and my dd is as blonde and blue-eyed as they come There are some that have looked down on me, but many more supported me and loved me even though they believed that premarital sex was wrong. They are the real Christians. It should not be about "judging" others. It should be about loving and caring and helping.

But, that doesn't mean we can't bellieve things are "wrong" either. Everyone, no matter where or when thay live(d) has some type of "code of conduct" that they believe is 'right'-always, all the time, no gray areas. The trouble comes when people place the worth of a person on his thoughts/beliefs/ideas. The other problem is when people elevate one "sin' above another. In God's eyes (the Christian God) telling a lie or gossiping is just as bad as murder! Wrong is wrong and we ALL fall short. So who am I to judge another person, that's God's job. But it is my job to do what He called me to do. If that were to run a Christian preschool/daycare then I would need to find like-minded people to work in it. If it were to run a public daycare I would still need to find the very best people to care for those entrusted to us, they just wouldn't need to be Christians
and now the kiddos are waking up and I don't even have time to proof/edit I hope this says what I intend it to!

Reply
CheekyChick 02:27 PM 08-24-2011
Originally Posted by momofsix:
I'm really praying what I type comes out the way I intend it to
I fully support this schools right to have their employees agree to this. As pps have said, if you are going to work for a church you should really expect to abide by their belief system. Also, if you send your child to a church-based school you should be able to expect the teachers to hold the beliefs of that church.

I fully expect that agreeing to the lifestyle clause is not the only condition of employment. I would expect that they would hire qualified childcare workers that care about children.

I also don't believe that they are being judgmental of others by doing this. It is a church-based school. That is what parents would expect of the staff working there. They aren't judging anyone or trying to change anyone, they just want the people that work in their preschool to have the same beliefs that are held by the church that runs/supports the school. If i were to teach in the public school system, I certainly would not expect to teach my kiddos about creation...I would have to agree to teach them the current scientific explanations. It would be silly for me to say they were discriminating/being judgmental for them to require that of me!

They may offer care to children of single parents, drug users...whatever. That is totally different. The children are not the ones teaching and guiding the other children. The adults are the ones with that influence and responsibility. Why would a church not want to help these kids-especially when there are so many of us that are unwilling to take them

I am trying to not get dragged into a huge argument here, even though that's what this whole post really is about. I am a Christian and am getting really tired of everyone and everything being OK except me and what I believe. I am a Christian-not a perfect person. I mess up all the time! I am a pastor's wife-and my first child was born out of wedlock I can't even hide it (not that I would, of course) b/c my dh and all our children together are of a different race and my dd is as blonde and blue-eyed as they come There are some that have looked down on me, but many more supported me and loved me even though they believed that premarital sex was wrong. They are the real Christians. It should not be about "judging" others. It should be about loving and caring and helping.

But, that doesn't mean we can't bellieve things are "wrong" either. Everyone, no matter where or when thay live(d) has some type of "code of conduct" that they believe is 'right'-always, all the time, no gray areas. The trouble comes when people place the worth of a person on his thoughts/beliefs/ideas. The other problem is when people elevate one "sin' above another. In God's eyes (the Christian God) telling a lie or gossiping is just as bad as murder! Wrong is wrong and we ALL fall short. So who am I to judge another person, that's God's job. But it is my job to do what He called me to do. If that were to run a Christian preschool/daycare then I would need to find like-minded people to work in it. If it were to run a public daycare I would still need to find the very best people to care for those entrusted to us, they just wouldn't need to be Christians
and now the kiddos are waking up and I don't even have time to proof/edit I hope this says what I intend it to!
Excellent post. I agree with everything you said.
Reply
JaydensMommy 02:30 PM 08-24-2011
Originally Posted by momofsix:
I'm really praying what I type comes out the way I intend it to
I fully support this schools right to have their employees agree to this. As pps have said, if you are going to work for a church you should really expect to abide by their belief system. Also, if you send your child to a church-based school you should be able to expect the teachers to hold the beliefs of that church.

I fully expect that agreeing to the lifestyle clause is not the only condition of employment. I would expect that they would hire qualified childcare workers that care about children.

I also don't believe that they are being judgmental of others by doing this. It is a church-based school. That is what parents would expect of the staff working there. They aren't judging anyone or trying to change anyone, they just want the people that work in their preschool to have the same beliefs that are held by the church that runs/supports the school. If i were to teach in the public school system, I certainly would not expect to teach my kiddos about creation...I would have to agree to teach them the current scientific explanations. It would be silly for me to say they were discriminating/being judgmental for them to require that of me!

They may offer care to children of single parents, drug users...whatever. That is totally different. The children are not the ones teaching and guiding the other children. The adults are the ones with that influence and responsibility. Why would a church not want to help these kids-especially when there are so many of us that are unwilling to take them

I am trying to not get dragged into a huge argument here, even though that's what this whole post really is about. I am a Christian and am getting really tired of everyone and everything being OK except me and what I believe. I am a Christian-not a perfect person. I mess up all the time! I am a pastor's wife-and my first child was born out of wedlock I can't even hide it (not that I would, of course) b/c my dh and all our children together are of a different race and my dd is as blonde and blue-eyed as they come There are some that have looked down on me, but many more supported me and loved me even though they believed that premarital sex was wrong. They are the real Christians. It should not be about "judging" others. It should be about loving and caring and helping.

But, that doesn't mean we can't bellieve things are "wrong" either. Everyone, no matter where or when thay live(d) has some type of "code of conduct" that they believe is 'right'-always, all the time, no gray areas. The trouble comes when people place the worth of a person on his thoughts/beliefs/ideas. The other problem is when people elevate one "sin' above another. In God's eyes (the Christian God) telling a lie or gossiping is just as bad as murder! Wrong is wrong and we ALL fall short. So who am I to judge another person, that's God's job. But it is my job to do what He called me to do. If that were to run a Christian preschool/daycare then I would need to find like-minded people to work in it. If it were to run a public daycare I would still need to find the very best people to care for those entrusted to us, they just wouldn't need to be Christians
and now the kiddos are waking up and I don't even have time to proof/edit I hope this says what I intend it to!
VERY well said! I agree with you completely!
Reply
Crystal 03:04 PM 08-24-2011
I was going to stay out of this until you posted that everyone and everything is OK except you......where in the world did that even come from? Who ever said that YOU (I assume you mean all Christians) and your beliefs are wrong and no one else's are?

On a daily basis I hear from the "Christians" about how they are the only one's who are right........it is being crammed down our throats left and right with the elections coming up.....being presented as the only way to run our Government, etc. I personally do not care about ANYBODY'S religious beliefs and feel everyone should be free to practice whatever religion they so choose, but please, keep it to yourselves and out of our Government.

Regardless of what this preschool/daycare is doing, the "Christians" have had their fair share of telling all of us "non-christians" that THEY are okay and we are not. Just yesterday with the earthquakes inDC the Christians came out of the woodwork claiming this is God's way of letting us know that he is mad at Obama/governemt, etc. BARF.

I understand you don't want an argument, but that was a pretty inflammatory statement, and a load of garbage to boot.

If you can't tell I am not religious at all, frankly I don't even believe in "GOD" and I am pretty tired of being told that everything and everyone else is Okay except me
Reply
familyschoolcare 03:05 PM 08-24-2011
Originally Posted by momofsix:
I'm really praying what I type comes out the way I intend it to
I fully support this schools right to have their employees agree to this. As pps have said, if you are going to work for a church you should really expect to abide by their belief system. Also, if you send your child to a church-based school you should be able to expect the teachers to hold the beliefs of that church.

I fully expect that agreeing to the lifestyle clause is not the only condition of employment. I would expect that they would hire qualified childcare workers that care about children.

I also don't believe that they are being judgmental of others by doing this. It is a church-based school. That is what parents would expect of the staff working there. They aren't judging anyone or trying to change anyone, they just want the people that work in their preschool to have the same beliefs that are held by the church that runs/supports the school. If i were to teach in the public school system, I certainly would not expect to teach my kiddos about creation...I would have to agree to teach them the current scientific explanations. It would be silly for me to say they were discriminating/being judgmental for them to require that of me!

They may offer care to children of single parents, drug users...whatever. That is totally different. The children are not the ones teaching and guiding the other children. The adults are the ones with that influence and responsibility. Why would a church not want to help these kids-especially when there are so many of us that are unwilling to take them

I am trying to not get dragged into a huge argument here, even though that's what this whole post really is about. I am a Christian and am getting really tired of everyone and everything being OK except me and what I believe. I am a Christian-not a perfect person. I mess up all the time! I am a pastor's wife-and my first child was born out of wedlock I can't even hide it (not that I would, of course) b/c my dh and all our children together are of a different race and my dd is as blonde and blue-eyed as they come There are some that have looked down on me, but many more supported me and loved me even though they believed that premarital sex was wrong. They are the real Christians. It should not be about "judging" others. It should be about loving and caring and helping.

But, that doesn't mean we can't bellieve things are "wrong" either. Everyone, no matter where or when thay live(d) has some type of "code of conduct" that they believe is 'right'-always, all the time, no gray areas. The trouble comes when people place the worth of a person on his thoughts/beliefs/ideas. The other problem is when people elevate one "sin' above another. In God's eyes (the Christian God) telling a lie or gossiping is just as bad as murder! Wrong is wrong and we ALL fall short. So who am I to judge another person, that's God's job. But it is my job to do what He called me to do. If that were to run a Christian preschool/daycare then I would need to find like-minded people to work in it. If it were to run a public daycare I would still need to find the very best people to care for those entrusted to us, they just wouldn't need to be Christians
and now the kiddos are waking up and I don't even have time to proof/edit I hope this says what I intend it to!
Exactly the church school trying to set an example and show how they believe people should live.

I too am a Christian and I am divorced. Was divorce when worked for a church based pre-school. Then after getting my BA in education worked for the same [lace teaching elementary school just after getting remarried all of that was not a problem even though I was required to "live by biblical principals" Because they understand that people are human and make mistakes and while there where things in my past that are not ideal Biblical speaking the current life and walk with Christ was not in question. However, if I had chosen to live with my now husband instead of marry him then I would not have been hired. This was an issue for my sister as a snooped in and got married before her even though I was engaged after her.
Reply
momofsix 03:35 PM 08-24-2011
Originally Posted by Crystal:
I was going to stay out of this until you posted that everyone and everything is OK except you......where in the world did that even come from? Who ever said that YOU (I assume you mean all Christians) and your beliefs are wrong and no one else's are?

On a daily basis I hear from the "Christians" about how they are the only one's who are right........it is being crammed down our throats left and right with the elections coming up.....being presented as the only way to run our Government, etc. I personally do not care about ANYBODY'S religious beliefs and feel everyone should be free to practice whatever religion they so choose, but please, keep it to yourselves and out of our Government.

Regardless of what this preschool/daycare is doing, the "Christians" have had their fair share of telling all of us "non-christians" that THEY are okay and we are not. Just yesterday with the earthquakes inDC the Christians came out of the woodwork claiming this is God's way of letting us know that he is mad at Obama/governemt, etc. BARF.

I understand you don't want an argument, but that was a pretty inflammatory statement, and a load of garbage to boot.

If you can't tell I am not religious at all, frankly I don't even believe in "GOD" and I am pretty tired of being told that everything and everyone else is Okay except me
Maybe it is just human nature to feel personally attacked by others? Maybe it depends on where you live as I'm not sure?
It seems the only news that gives Christians a fair voice is FOX, and I really don't care for their news! (to me they give Christians, conservatives, republicans...a bad name) ALL the editorials in our paper criticize Christians, especially in politics. Even in popular movies/tv shows Christians are usually shown as horrible people, and the non-Christians are the "better" people.
As for those Christians that say the earthquake is God's punishment on the USA, that really just proves my point. MOST Christians don't feel that way. MOST of us are praying for those that were hurt or had property damage...our churches are helping where/if needed in rebuilding or with financial support. Why is the focus on the bad only...I guess because it's newsworthy and it gets ratings because it gets people ticked off. The response of most normal Christians isn't going to get any tv station big ratings so they don't show that.
I don't shove my beliefs down anyones throat. I live my life the way I believe is right I hope I always treat others respectfully and would feel horribly if someone thought I was disrespecting them. I have many, many relationships with people that believe differently than I do. We can be and always will be friends-whatever our beliefs

Reply
youretooloud 03:52 PM 08-24-2011
Originally Posted by Crystal:
Just yesterday with the earthquakes inDC the Christians came out of the woodwork claiming this is God's way of letting us know that he is mad at Obama/governemt, etc. BARF.
But, those are not the normal Christians. I have a family member who is like this. She watches only the 700 club and Jerry Fallwell, and thinks these things too. I'm the first one to defend her, but I don't agree with her. She's a shut in, with absolutely no access to the outside world. Other that the 700 club.

Most average Christians didn't ever think it was about Obama. Most average Christians thought "Oooh.. how cool to live through an earthquake.. Praise the Lord nobody was hurt".

***************************

I personally think it's stupid that this was ever on the news. Sure it was an unpleasant surprise to the teachers, but they will get over it. I applied for a job at a Jewish Preschool... Guess what? They didn't hire me because I'm not Jewish. We have a half dozen Muslim schools within a ten mile radius... and they only hire Muslims. They expect a certain behavior and lifestyle too.
Reply
Blackcat31 03:58 PM 08-24-2011
Originally Posted by Crystal:
On a daily basis I hear from the "Christians" about how they are the only one's who are right........it is being crammed down our throats left and right with the elections coming up.....being presented as the only way to run our Government, etc. I personally do not care about ANYBODY'S religious beliefs and feel everyone should be free to practice whatever religion they so choose, but please, keep it to yourselves and out of our Government.
FWIW~ Our country was founded on religious beliefs. "One nation under God." Whether a person believes or not is beside the point, the constitution was written by religious followers. That is a fact. It may have worked then and not be working so well now but that is how it all started.

Americans have been taught to believe the concept that “a wall of separation of church and State” exists between religion and government. The truth is our founding fathers did not want any one Christian church to be preferred (have power) over another. Religion was fundamental to every aspect of life. They did not want religion out of government—they wanted government out of religion!
Reply
nannyde 04:11 PM 08-24-2011
Originally Posted by momofsix:
They may offer care to children of single parents, drug users...whatever. That is totally different. The children are not the ones teaching and guiding the other children. The adults are the ones with that influence and responsibility. Why would a church not want to help these kids-especially when there are so many of us that are unwilling to take them
NOPE

Parents care for their own children.
Staff assistants in the center care for center children.

Why is it okay to TAKE money from a parent who cares for their child and is behaving in an "ungodly" way but it's not okay to PAY a staff assistant who is caring for the center child and living in an ungodly way outside of work?

If they TRULY believe that it isn't good for the children then it's NEVER good for the children... not just when they are in care.

And what about their responsibility to the ADULTS? The staff should be working with parents who live an ungodly life? How is that good for THEM? Why are you just worried about the children? Why not the poor staff assistants who has to call two parents of one kid Mommy? Why should SHE have to have that conversation? Why should SHE be exposed to that?

That church can minister to the ungodly without having the other day care kids and the staff assistants exposed to it every day in their work environment. The staff who keep up their standards should have a right to only work with adults who do the same... that includes the parents.

IMHO Can't have it both ways.

If that business is a full center and have kids from birth to five I don't think they can pull it off. If they are just a preschool and have only three to five year olds for a few hours a week during the school year (Bev Boo style) they MIGHT be able to pull it off.

When your staff pool is minimum wage workers that have one of the highest turnover rate of any proffession in the country.... you are going to have a really tough time tightening down that group to even a smaller subset and making it work UNLESS you got sompin special special for THEM. That would be higher pay then they can get anywhere else.
Reply
mom2many 04:29 PM 08-24-2011
Originally Posted by momofsix:
I'm really praying what I type comes out the way I intend it to
I fully support this schools right to have their employees agree to this. As pps have said, if you are going to work for a church you should really expect to abide by their belief system. Also, if you send your child to a church-based school you should be able to expect the teachers to hold the beliefs of that church.

I fully expect that agreeing to the lifestyle clause is not the only condition of employment. I would expect that they would hire qualified childcare workers that care about children.

I also don't believe that they are being judgmental of others by doing this. It is a church-based school. That is what parents would expect of the staff working there. They aren't judging anyone or trying to change anyone, they just want the people that work in their preschool to have the same beliefs that are held by the church that runs/supports the school. If i were to teach in the public school system, I certainly would not expect to teach my kiddos about creation...I would have to agree to teach them the current scientific explanations. It would be silly for me to say they were discriminating/being judgmental for them to require that of me!

They may offer care to children of single parents, drug users...whatever. That is totally different. The children are not the ones teaching and guiding the other children. The adults are the ones with that influence and responsibility. Why would a church not want to help these kids-especially when there are so many of us that are unwilling to take them

I am trying to not get dragged into a huge argument here, even though that's what this whole post really is about. I am a Christian and am getting really tired of everyone and everything being OK except me and what I believe. I am a Christian-not a perfect person. I mess up all the time! I am a pastor's wife-and my first child was born out of wedlock I can't even hide it (not that I would, of course) b/c my dh and all our children together are of a different race and my dd is as blonde and blue-eyed as they come There are some that have looked down on me, but many more supported me and loved me even though they believed that premarital sex was wrong. They are the real Christians. It should not be about "judging" others. It should be about loving and caring and helping.

But, that doesn't mean we can't bellieve things are "wrong" either. Everyone, no matter where or when thay live(d) has some type of "code of conduct" that they believe is 'right'-always, all the time, no gray areas. The trouble comes when people place the worth of a person on his thoughts/beliefs/ideas. The other problem is when people elevate one "sin' above another. In God's eyes (the Christian God) telling a lie or gossiping is just as bad as murder! Wrong is wrong and we ALL fall short. So who am I to judge another person, that's God's job. But it is my job to do what He called me to do. If that were to run a Christian preschool/daycare then I would need to find like-minded people to work in it. If it were to run a public daycare I would still need to find the very best people to care for those entrusted to us, they just wouldn't need to be Christians
and now the kiddos are waking up and I don't even have time to proof/edit I hope this says what I intend it to!
Perfectly said! I could not agree with you more!
Reply
Kaddidle Care 04:43 PM 08-24-2011
Originally Posted by momofsix:
I am a Christian and am getting really tired of everyone and everything being OK except me and what I believe.
Amen Sista!

Originally Posted by Crystal:
Just yesterday with the earthquakes inDC the Christians came out of the woodwork claiming this is God's way of letting us know that he is mad at Obama/governemt, etc. BARF.
Never heard this one.

Even if they did, are you truly going to believe that a few nutters represent everyone?

Let's just agree to disagree OK?
Reply
Unregistered 06:07 PM 08-24-2011
Originally Posted by nannyde:
NOPE

Parents care for their own children.
Staff assistants in the center care for center children.

(I'm not sure what you're saying here?)

Why is it okay to TAKE money from a parent who cares for their child and is behaving in an "ungodly" way but it's not okay to PAY a staff assistant who is caring for the center child and living in an ungodly way outside of work?

(Would you take money from an overweight parent? You won't hire an overweight worker!)

If they TRULY believe that it isn't good for the children then it's NEVER good for the children... not just when they are in care.

(Absolutely true! We all discuss on here plenty of times the things we think parents do that aren't in the best interest of the children. I'm not sure what you're trying to say here.)

And what about their responsibility to the ADULTS? The staff should be working with parents who live an ungodly life? How is that good for THEM? Why are you just worried about the children? Why not the poor staff assistants who has to call two parents of one kid Mommy? Why should SHE have to have that conversation? Why should SHE be exposed to that?

(The "poor staff assistant" is exposed to much more then that every day of her life just as we all are. She is Christian, not in a monastery!)

That church can minister to the ungodly without having the other day care kids and the staff assistants exposed to it every day in their work environment. The staff who keep up their standards should have a right to only work with adults who do the same... that includes the parents.

(You're correct, the staff does have that right. They are not forced to work there. They can open there own daycare and have whomever they want for clients!)

IMHO Can't have it both ways.

If that business is a full center and have kids from birth to five I don't think they can pull it off. If they are just a preschool and have only three to five year olds for a few hours a week during the school year (Bev Boo style) they MIGHT be able to pull it off.

(I know plenty of places that pull it off )

When your staff pool is minimum wage workers that have one of the highest turnover rate of any proffession in the country.... you are going to have a really tough time tightening down that group to even a smaller subset and making it work UNLESS you got sompin special special for THEM. That would be higher pay then they can get anywhere else.
I put my responses in (). I'm on my kids' computer and so I don't have all the extra features. Sorry if it's hard to read
momofsix
Reply
nannyde 06:56 PM 08-24-2011
Would you take money from an overweight parent? You won't hire an overweight worker!

I do employ an overweight worker. I've employed an overweight worker for the last 2.5 years.

I wouldn't hire a morbidly obese worker (someone who is eighty to one hundred pounds overweight) because they can't perform the job "I" have here safely and timely.

I would take money from a morbidly obese parent because they can perform the job or role of day care parent safely and timely.

Of course there are different expectations for a staff assistant than a parent. The law demands that. The law says we can't have molesters working here or felons.

I have to follow those laws.

I'm specifically talking about morality. I'm saying I wouldn't hire a staff assistant and require them to have a higher standard of morality than I would expects clients who come to my home and bring their kids.

You can't see the difference?

I don't have a problem with the center having these expectations on their staff. It's their business and their neche in the market. I could care less about their conduct expectations on the staff.

What I think doesn't make sense is that they require these moral attributes for their workers but they haven't put into writing that I know of that they only SERVE clients with the same values.

I live the values I think are right.
I hire the staff assistant that has the vaules that I think are right.
I only work for the clients that have the values that I think are right.

I don't take clients that don't mesh in with my values. I wonder if they do the same. To me, they are one and the same.

What Full on Centers do you know that have a code of conduct with these specific attributes that operate successfully with a group of birth to five? Can you give names of them and any direct info on the code of conduct content in writing?
Reply
familyschoolcare 07:42 PM 08-24-2011
Originally Posted by Blackcat31:
FWIW~ Our country was founded on religious beliefs. "One nation under God." Whether a person believes or not is beside the point, the constitution was written by religious followers. That is a fact. It may have worked then and not be working so well now but that is how it all started.

Americans have been taught to believe the concept that “a wall of separation of church and State” exists between religion and government. The truth is our founding fathers did not want any one Christian church to be preferred (have power) over another. Religion was fundamental to every aspect of life. They did not want religion out of government—they wanted government out of religion!
Exactly, for what ever reason people have forgotten that what our founding father meant by freedom of religion was we think everyone should believe in God just in their own way. The pressure to be religious was stronger than it is now back then.
Reply
mom2many 08:08 PM 08-24-2011
Originally Posted by nannyde:

I'm specifically talking about morality. I'm saying I wouldn't hire a staff assistant and require them to have a higher standard of morality than I would expects clients who come to my home and bring their kids.

You can't see the difference?

That's your prerogative...but if a certain clientele wants something different for their child, then they would be serving a specific niche within our society.

I don't have a problem with the center having these expectations on their staff. It's their business and their neche in the market. I could care less about their conduct expectations on the staff.

This contradicts what you just stated above. Okay...you wouldn't do it, but why can't they just do it and be left alone. Everyone wants to condemn them for who they want to hire. It's the employees choice if they want to work there or not!

What I think doesn't make sense is that they require these moral attributes for their workers but they haven't put into writing that I know of that they only SERVE clients with the same values.


I live the values I think are right.
I hire the staff assistant that has the vaules that I think are right.
I only work for the clients that have the values that I think are right.

I don't take clients that don't mesh in with my values. I wonder if they do the same. To me, they are one and the same.

Who cares who their clients are...that is irrelevant for others to be judging. I don't comprehend why this is an issue. For many years, I have witnessed parents seeking out a childcare environment that shares their values and if this school is expecting a certain kind of employee, then I'm sure it will attract those parents with the same belief system. They will embrace and welcome it!

The church is full of less than perfect people, we are all human...so that is our nature. However, I see nothing wrong with running a business and choosing who you wish to hire and making sure they align with your own beliefs and values. Furthermore, I see nothing wrong with allowing an innocent child to be put into an environment like this, regardless of whether their parents live up to the same standards required of the staff!


What Full on Centers do you know that have a code of conduct with these specific attributes that operate successfully with a group of birth to five? Can you give names of them and any direct info on the code of conduct content in writing?
IMHO it doesn't matter.
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Unregistered 08:44 PM 08-24-2011
I went to the church's website and I downloaded the application and the rules and I was kind of shocked. I don't believe that what I do outside of my core daycare hours negatively affects the care that I provide to my daycare kids. It's just offensive to me. Because I have a potty mouth outside of daycare hours, does that make me not fit to care for children? My daughter was born out of wedlock. Does that mean that I'm not fit to do what I do best: My job as a child care provider, which I do well and enjoy so much! I'm a very liberal person and even though I'm not gay, it's just because I happen to be straight. If I were gay, I would make no apologies for it because it's not my problem that there are people who can't handle the concept that not everyone loves the same way. I think it's amazing when people find love with one another, regardless of their sexual orientation.

That daycare will lose employees and families because the church didn't consider that the employees and parents may not be cool with the policies which all but trample on a person's civil liberties.

Disgusting. Just disgusting.
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nannyde 05:22 AM 08-25-2011
Originally Posted by mom2many:
IMHO it doesn't matter.
I don't have a problem with the center having these expectations on their staff. It's their business and their neche in the market. I could care less about their conduct expectations on the staff.

This contradicts what you just stated above.

Where?

Where did I say they can have whatever expectations they want on their staff?

I don't have a problem with them surrounding themselves and filling their business with what they believe is right and good as long as it doesn't break any laws. This doesn't AFAIK

It's a neche (sp) market .. promoting your godly staff as the caregivers.

What I want to know is if they TAKE money from the very people who drink, have premarital sex, don't go to church, are gay, cuss... etc.

THAT'S what I see as unethical. If you are going to say you believe in this then why not put that expectation on EVERYONE?

Again.... what full on birth to five centers do you know of that have a code of conduct similiar to this.. have it in writing.... so it's provable?

It does matter. This made the news here because it's something unique. If you are saying it's done all over the place and you know of plenty then why not tell us the name and point us to their code of conduct?

I think it would be terribly hard to run a 200 kid birth to five center with 50 staff and pull this off. I think the administrative costs of this would be huge. I think the turnover in this field is SO high that the pickings of just finding good WORKERS that come every day and stay more than a few months is SO low that if you subtract out of those workers the "godly" living ones you are going to end up with a very very small pool of workers.

Now if it's just a preschool doing "school" serving a small age group for a few hours a week with lots of breaks and no HARD work like caring for infants, serving meals, doing naps, etc... then that's a different story. I think you could pull that off.
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nannyde 06:27 AM 08-25-2011
http://www.pointofgrace.com/site/ima...cademy_app.pdf
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Unregistered 06:41 AM 08-25-2011
I read that thing. I think that it's offensive. I think that it's a shame that their current employees have to agree to those rigid terms about how to live their lives if they want to keep their jobs.

To be honest, if I were employed by that place, I would have ACLU involved ASAP.

If this is all legal, it seems like it's just barely legal!
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nannyde 07:31 AM 08-25-2011
Originally Posted by Unregistered:
That daycare will lose employees and families because the church didn't consider that the employees and parents may not be cool with the policies which all but trample on a person's civil liberties.
I don't think they will loose families over it. In fact, I think it will be a nice draw for them to promote their godly staff.

Think about it:

How many parents are looking for a child care that has NO TV so they can feel okay about the amount of TV they have their kid watch when the kid is on their clock?

How many parents are looking for a healthy diet for their kid so they can feel okay about feeding processed or take out food for their kid on their clock.

How many parents want a kid up ALL DAY LONG so they can have the kid sleep more on their clock?

It's REALLY common for parents to look for care that is the opposite of what they do.

I think their biggest client base is actually going to be the sinners.

My guess is... and this is a complete one hundred percent guess... is that they are having what many employers across the country are having with the new generation of workers.

My guess is that they are having a hard time dealing with the behavior of their staff. I think they are having problems with staff absenteism, interpersonal relationships between staff, baby daddy issues, baby mama issues, inappropriate contact with clients (facebook relationships, texting, outside of work contact), gossiping, low work production, cell phone addiction, legal issues that affect the workplace like salary garnishments, etc. etc. etc.

I think they know from previous experience that employees who are highly involved in church, live in their version of godly behavior, and do ministry for church are more likely to not come to the work table with behaviors that are easier for them to deal with as employers and they work at a level of work that is more conducive to what they want as an employee.

If they weren't having WORK problems with their staff and previous management I doubt that they would be restructuring by hiring a new director and setting these pre- and current employment standards.

I get it.

I strongly prefer families that have a farm background. My experience with families connected to the land is that they are easier for ME to work with, they have discipline and discipline their kids, they know how to work HARD so they work hard to keep our relationship going.

I strongly prefer staff assistants who are the eldest child in the family and who have much younger siblings. I have found that SA's who have the life experience of caring for much younger siblings and the household chores that are often put on the eldest female in a wide age group of siblings are very simliar to the work I have here.

They are trying to set up their staff to have the highest liklihood from their experience... to operate this child care. They have the added bonus of saying it is what God would want and the bad behavior isn't what God would want (see all their biblical citations with their expectations).

You can't go higher than God when it comes to setting up your code of conduct and they have protection under our separation of church and state laws so they are good to go.

Now will they be able to actually GET a staff and keep them? I don't know about all of that.
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wdmmom 07:39 AM 08-25-2011
This pre-school/daycare is so worried about a code of conduct and ensuring that these childcare workers live up to their high standards.

It seems very discriminatory to me.

Are you going to kick patrons out of your church for living that way?! Even the strongest bible thumper is going to have a drink every so often. What about the guy sitting in the back pew that lost his job because he's an alcoholic? Are you going to condemn him too?!

WE ARE ALL SINNERS!!!!!

That is why some choose to go to church...forgiveness of sins. Even the holy book says that we are all sinners and we all sin everyday in some way, shape or form. (Of course not those exact words.)

No two families live the same. These are rules this employer is setting forth. I'm sure there is no "grace period" or excuse if you disobey.

(For example: If you just got a phone call telling you that your sister was in a car accident and they aren't going to survive, do you mean to tell me you aren't going to swear or even take the lords name in vain?!) I guarantee 99% of us would be guilty.

This employer needs to realize that this isn't the 1960's anymore. Women do not act all prim and proper like they used to and I think that is what they are expecting.

They want June Cleaver working in their daycare center wearing dresses and high heels.

When they get off their high horse and don't have any employees or so few that they can't operate, maybe they'll realize that this isn't a democracy!
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momofsix 07:53 AM 08-25-2011
Originally Posted by nannyde:
What Full on Centers do you know that have a code of conduct with these specific attributes that operate successfully with a group of birth to five? Can you give names of them and any direct info on the code of conduct content in writing?
Really?
I have lived here all my life. I myself have applied at many of these centers when I was starting out, filling out applications very similar to the one the Waukee church has. I have been involved with the Christian community in my area my whole life. I have been involved in the child care community since my internships in high school 27 years ago!
Please trust that I am not lying and I do know what I am talking about
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CheekyChick 08:04 AM 08-25-2011
Originally Posted by momofsix:
As for those Christians that say the earthquake is God's punishment on the USA, that really just proves my point. MOST Christians don't feel that way. MOST of us are praying for those that were hurt or had property damage...our churches are helping where/if needed in rebuilding or with financial support. Why is the focus on the bad only...I guess because it's newsworthy and it gets ratings because it gets people ticked off. The response of most normal Christians isn't going to get any tv station big ratings so they don't show that.
I don't shove my beliefs down anyones throat. I live my life the way I believe is right I hope I always treat others respectfully and would feel horribly if someone thought I was disrespecting them. I have many, many relationships with people that believe differently than I do. We can be and always will be friends-whatever our beliefs
I'm in total agreement. The media rarely portrays Christians in a positive light. We only see the crazy extremists. The ones who commit horrific crimes in the name of God. Ugh. Even on reality TV, if there is a "Christian" - I can guarantee you that he/she will be the nutjob of the group. It is so frustrating to see that scenario played out over and over again.
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CheekyChick 08:08 AM 08-25-2011
Originally Posted by momofsix:
Really?
I have lived here all my life. I myself have applied at many of these centers when I was starting out, filling out applications very similar to the one the Waukee church has. I have been involved with the Christian community in my area my whole life. I have been involved in the child care community since my internships in high school 27 years ago!
Please trust that I am not lying and I do know what I am talking about
I can only go by my children's Christian school and I am positive that what they're asking from their staff was the "norm" at our school. It was a large Christian school (700+) and there was no shortage of teachers or students willing to abide by the school's standards.
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nannyde 08:36 AM 08-25-2011
Originally Posted by momofsix:
Really?
I have lived here all my life. I myself have applied at many of these centers when I was starting out, filling out applications very similar to the one the Waukee church has. I have been involved with the Christian community in my area my whole life. I have been involved in the child care community since my internships in high school 27 years ago!
Please trust that I am not lying and I do know what I am talking about
Yes really

I'm not asking to call you out. I'm asking because I want to see what their standards are. I found the Point of Grace stuff and posted it. Do any of the ones you know of have their jazz online so you can see the standards and see what the center operations are (age group and capacity)?
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Blackcat31 08:38 AM 08-25-2011
I honestly do not understand what all the hoopla about this is? This daycare center is basically asking it's employees to:

1. NOT to live in a non-marital or adulterous situation
2. NOT be homosexual or NOT practice any sexual perversions (their words)
3. NOT view *****graphy
4. NOT be a drunk
5. NOT swear like a sailor
6. to attend church
7. NOT act in a manner that isn't moral according to their definitions.

I really do not think these rules are that horrible. Albeit, I happen to be tolerant and accepting of people who are homosexual as it is their choice and I am not judgemental about it, but as far as the rest of it goes, what is the big deal?

If you don't believe in God, you more than likely aren't going to apply for employment at a religious based childcare.
If you cuss like a trucker, I'll bet it isn't in front of anyone other than close family and friends.

We have religious based schools and daycares in our community and I am pretty sure they have rules that require their attendees and employees to conduct themselves in a manner that represents them (as individuals and employees) in a positive manner.

As a child care provider, if I look at *****graphy or get charged with something like public intoxification or something similar, I will probably more than likely lose business and possibly not pass a background check for re-licensing.

As far as attending church and behaving in a Christian like manner, this is a religious based daycare so duh!, I would think they would want someone like that to not only be employees and staff but as clients too.

I wouldn't want someone who didn't believe in the power of medicine and science to be my doctor...kwim? (Probably a bad analogy but hopefully it makes the point.)

I think there are simply certain professions that the public holds to a higher standard and this is one place of employment that seems to be doing it from the inside out.

My FIL was a State Trooper for many years. He was required to be clean shaven, have a short hair cut, not get tattoos or piercings, not be seen publicly intoxicated or to conduct himself in a manner that was immoral or unethical on AND off the job. He was also encouraged to join community clubs and perform community service jobs to show good citizenship and good charater. He was held to a standard that our State Troopers wanted to reflect as who they are: law abiding, morally sound and just people.

IMHO~This daycare is really not doing anything different than that.
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mom2many 08:44 AM 08-25-2011
Originally Posted by CheekyChick:
I'm in total agreement. The media rarely portrays Christians in a positive light. We only see the crazy extremists. The ones who commit horrific crimes in the name of God. Ugh. Even on reality TV, if there is a "Christian" - I can guarantee you that he/she will be the nutjob of the group. It is so frustrating to see that scenario played out over and over again.
So true indeed!
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nannyde 08:50 AM 08-25-2011
Originally Posted by Blackcat31:
IMHO~This daycare is really not doing anything different than that.
I think it is different.

I think expecting the employee to not have premarital sex, view *****graphy on their own time, attend church on their free time, be heterosexual is very different than expecting them to be clean shaven.

Don't you think it's weird black that they don't have smoking in that stuff?
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familyschoolcare 08:53 AM 08-25-2011
Originally Posted by nannyde:

Don't you think it's weird black that they don't have smoking in that stuff?
They can not find a scripture verse that directly addresses not smoking and therefore would not be able to claim that it is for religious reasons. They can still have a non-smoking campus.
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JaydensMommy 08:55 AM 08-25-2011
Originally Posted by Blackcat31:
I honestly do not understand what all the hoopla about this is? This daycare center is basically asking it's employees to:

1. NOT to live in a non-marital or adulterous situation
2. NOT be homosexual or NOT practice any sexual perversions (their words)
3. NOT view *****graphy
4. NOT be a drunk
5. NOT swear like a sailor
6. to attend church
7. NOT act in a manner that isn't moral according to their definitions.

I really do not think these rules are that horrible. Albeit, I happen to be tolerant and accepting of people who are homosexual as it is their choice and I am not judgemental about it, but as far as the rest of it goes, what is the big deal?

If you don't believe in God, you more than likely aren't going to apply for employment at a religious based childcare.
If you cuss like a trucker, I'll bet it isn't in front of anyone other than close family and friends.

We have religious based schools and daycares in our community and I am pretty sure they have rules that require their attendees and employees to conduct themselves in a manner that represents them (as individuals and employees) in a positive manner.

As a child care provider, if I look at *****graphy or get charged with something like public intoxification or something similar, I will probably more than likely lose business and possibly not pass a background check for re-licensing.

As far as attending church and behaving in a Christian like manner, this is a religious based daycare so duh!, I would think they would want someone like that to not only be employees and staff but as clients too.

I wouldn't want someone who didn't believe in the power of medicine and science to be my doctor...kwim? (Probably a bad analogy but hopefully it makes the point.)

I think there are simply certain professions that the public holds to a higher standard and this is one place of employment that seems to be doing it from the inside out.

My FIL was a State Trooper for many years. He was required to be clean shaven, have a short hair cut, not get tattoos or piercings, not be seen publicly intoxicated or to conduct himself in a manner that was immoral or unethical on AND off the job. He was also encouraged to join community clubs and perform community service jobs to show good citizenship and good charater. He was held to a standard that our State Troopers wanted to reflect as who they are: law abiding, morally sound and just people.

IMHO~This daycare is really not doing anything different than that.
I agree! I would send my child to this daycare, my son is starting at a christian school next month. They require a letter of recommendation from our pastor as well as requiring that we live by what their purpose is, which is to live by the word of God. It states that if our behavior is detrimental to the purpose of the school on or off campus our child could be expelled. I am ok with that because I want my child in a place where his teachers and peers are christians that are trying to live by the word of God.
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satcook 09:01 AM 08-25-2011
I am the director of a christian childcare. While the contract we have our employees sign isn't as specific as this childcare's, our employees do have to say that they won't smoke, drink, or engage in activities contrary to how we believe.

Our center is for 12 months to school age. I would take infants, but can't get administration to approve it. :-) We have 110 kids with another 600 in K-12th grade.

We have very low staff turnover. All 6 of my childcare teachers have been here for 1-4 years. My 4 pre-k teachers have all been here at least 6 years. My aides have all been here for 1-8 years. I have been here for 3 years. We are looking for a new aide right now because we had a girl leave for college. Yes, it takes us some time to find the right employee, but it is worth it.

Our employees make 7.50 to start, and I am the highest paid at $9.25 an hour. We do offer free childcare to those that have young kids, but we have no vacation pay, sick days, etc.

The academy has been here for 25 years and the childcare for 18 years.

I admire this center. If you don't want to sign the statement, then don't work there. It's quite easy!

Lori
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Blackcat31 09:08 AM 08-25-2011
Nan~ Yes, I agree that clean shaven is different but I was just trying to make a point....and yes, I would think they would include smoking but as familyschoolcare said, they probably can't find a biblical verse to support that.

I found a couple religious child care sites that "seem" to imply the same employee rules but use gentler wording: http://www.horizonchristianacademy.org/?p=333 and http://www.treeoflifedaycare.org/ Both of them require their staff to have a personal relationship with Jesus Christ and I would only assume that means to live accordingly. If you believe and are a practicing Christian, you usually do try to practice what you believe.

I also found this article very interesting: http://network.nationalpost.com/NP/b...uct-codes.aspx
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nannyde 09:18 AM 08-25-2011
Originally Posted by satcook:
I am the director of a christian childcare. While the contract we have our employees sign isn't as specific as this childcare's, our employees do have to say that they won't smoke, drink, or engage in activities contrary to how we believe.

Our center is for 12 months to school age. I would take infants, but can't get administration to approve it. :-) We have 110 kids with another 600 in K-12th grade.

We have very low staff turnover. All 6 of my childcare teachers have been here for 1-4 years. My 4 pre-k teachers have all been here at least 6 years. My aides have all been here for 1-8 years. I have been here for 3 years. We are looking for a new aide right now because we had a girl leave for college. Yes, it takes us some time to find the right employee, but it is worth it.

Our employees make 7.50 to start, and I am the highest paid at $9.25 an hour. We do offer free childcare to those that have young kids, but we have no vacation pay, sick days, etc.

The academy has been here for 25 years and the childcare for 18 years.

I admire this center. If you don't want to sign the statement, then don't work there. It's quite easy!

Lori
Lori could we see what they do have to sign?

Offering free child care on top of minimum wage is a BIG salary for a staff assistant. That would definitely help. Here in a center that would be an additional 4.5-5.00 dollars an hour per kid of untaxed income.

That's what I'm talking about with special special. THAT'S some money especially when you are getting into a second/third kid.

If they offer THAT... and they keep their infant population really low or no infants... my guess is they can pull it off.

Just my guess though...
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wdmmom 09:50 AM 08-25-2011
Everyone's way of life is different. Even with a code of ethics/conduct, it's a joke. You don't do A, B or C but you can do X Y & Z. What about D-W?! There are a lot of other topics not on here that while one person may find to be appropriate, the employer may not.

It isn't gonna be Jesus rising again, it's the unemployment rate that's going to rise again!

All of these rules/regulations are up for interpretation if you ask me and ultimately this employer has the upper hand. While an employee may sign the code, it doesn't guarantee their job if they do follow these things. I see it as a way to terminate and for the employee not to be eligible for unemployment if the employer deems their behavior, way of living, etc to be innappropriate.

That's bullcaca!
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erinalexmom 10:18 AM 08-25-2011
I wont get into the argument of if its right or not but nan said its might be a niche market for some parents and I would agree. But I will say that I would gladly be one of those parents.
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mom2many 10:30 AM 08-25-2011
Originally Posted by Blackcat31:
I honestly do not understand what all the hoopla about this is? This daycare center is basically asking it's employees to:

1. NOT to live in a non-marital or adulterous situation
2. NOT be homosexual or NOT practice any sexual perversions (their words)
3. NOT view *****graphy
4. NOT be a drunk
5. NOT swear like a sailor
6. to attend church
7. NOT act in a manner that isn't moral according to their definitions.

I really do not think these rules are that horrible. Albeit, I happen to be tolerant and accepting of people who are homosexual as it is their choice and I am not judgemental about it, but as far as the rest of it goes, what is the big deal?

If you don't believe in God, you more than likely aren't going to apply for employment at a religious based childcare.
If you cuss like a trucker, I'll bet it isn't in front of anyone other than close family and friends.

We have religious based schools and daycares in our community and I am pretty sure they have rules that require their attendees and employees to conduct themselves in a manner that represents them (as individuals and employees) in a positive manner.

As a child care provider, if I look at *****graphy or get charged with something like public intoxification or something similar, I will probably more than likely lose business and possibly not pass a background check for re-licensing.

As far as attending church and behaving in a Christian like manner, this is a religious based daycare so duh!, I would think they would want someone like that to not only be employees and staff but as clients too.

I wouldn't want someone who didn't believe in the power of medicine and science to be my doctor...kwim? (Probably a bad analogy but hopefully it makes the point.)

I think there are simply certain professions that the public holds to a higher standard and this is one place of employment that seems to be doing it from the inside out.

My FIL was a State Trooper for many years. He was required to be clean shaven, have a short hair cut, not get tattoos or piercings, not be seen publicly intoxicated or to conduct himself in a manner that was immoral or unethical on AND off the job. He was also encouraged to join community clubs and perform community service jobs to show good citizenship and good charater. He was held to a standard that our State Troopers wanted to reflect as who they are: law abiding, morally sound and just people.

IMHO~This daycare is really not doing anything different than that.
Exactly! I just don't understand why this is causing such a stir, other than it's easy to bash a church. Having qualities, requirements and standards for employees is something every business does.
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youretooloud 10:42 AM 08-25-2011
Originally Posted by wdmmom:

It seems very discriminatory to me.

Are you going to kick patrons out of your church for living that way?! Even the strongest bible thumper is going to have a drink every so often. What about the guy sitting in the back pew that lost his job because he's an alcoholic? Are you going to condemn him too?!

WE ARE ALL SINNERS!!!!!

That is why some choose to go to church...forgiveness of sins. Even the holy book says that we are all sinners and we all sin everyday in some way, shape or form. (Of course not those exact words.)

No two families live the same. These are rules this employer is setting forth. I'm sure there is no "grace period" or excuse if you disobey.

(For example: If you just got a phone call telling you that your sister was in a car accident and they aren't going to survive, do you mean to tell me you aren't going to swear or even take the lords name in vain?!) I guarantee 99% of us would be guilty.

This employer needs to realize that this isn't the 1960's anymore. Women do not act all prim and proper like they used to and I think that is what they are expecting.

They want June Cleaver working in their daycare center wearing dresses and high heels.

When they get off their high horse and don't have any employees or so few that they can't operate, maybe they'll realize that this isn't a democracy!

OK.. But, how many Pastors who have affairs, are alcoholics, or who cuss do you know that are still pastors? Sure, there are some, but nobody really knows about it yet. Once they get caught, they are shunned, talked about, relieved of their duties. Anybody in a teaching position within a church is kept to high standards. When I taught at a Christian school, the principal was caught having an affair, and fired immediately.

How can a church, or a church school teach high standards if it's fine for THEm to have affairs, or drink, or cuss, or do any of the things that they are teaching against.

Do you want a financial adviser that has filed for bankruptcy three times and had two foreclosures? He may be teaching how to balance a budget, but he's not doing it himself.

How about a nutritionist who is 385 pounds? Would you believe them?

A allergist who smokes?

I don't think Christians need to lower the standards just because it's not 1960. If anything it's time to raise their standards to give others with high standards a chance. Those with low standards need to build a bridge and get over it, because perhaps it's time for a little less tolerance.
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Blackcat31 10:46 AM 08-25-2011
Someone I know was recently fired for having an affair with a co-worker. It was against company policy. They weren't fired for having an affair, it was the fact that it went against company policy to have a personal relationship with a co-worker.

Their company= their rules.
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Zoe 10:56 AM 08-25-2011
I am honestly surprised by this. When I was applying for teaching jobs 5 years ago I applied to a Catholic School. I'm not Catholic, but I was keeping my options open because it was a general teaching job (I wouldn't have to teach about religion). I was worried that because I wasn't Catholic that I wouldn't be considered. So I called the school and said that they don't discriminate in that way and I was offered the job after my interview.

Never was I asked if I had premarital sex or was a homosexual.

Same thing happened when I applied to a daycare center that was in a church. No document to sign saying I wouldn't drink or watch p***. Honestly, I thought my two examples was the norm and I loved that! Churches following a policy of tolerance!

Now, I understand not wanting childcare providers to behave in an improper manner, but to not hire someone because of what they do outside of the job (in their own home!). I don't think it's their business. But that's just me.

And I agree with some PP: if you don't agree with what they're doing, don't apply there. You wouldn't be happy there anyway! I know I wouldn't, as I do not tolerate those who judge others based on sexuality. The whole thing angers me, but no more than hearing about other religious zealouts who I realize DO NOT represent all Christians.

If I've learned anything from this, it's that if I'm ever in Iowa, I won't be attending that church!
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mom2many 10:57 AM 08-25-2011
Originally Posted by youretooloud:
OK.. But, how many Pastors who have affairs, are alcoholics, or who cuss do you know that are still pastors? Sure, there are some, but nobody really knows about it yet. Once they get caught, they are shunned, talked about, relieved of their duties. Anybody in a teaching position within a church is kept to high standards. When I taught at a Christian school, the principal was caught having an affair, and fired immediately.

How can a church, or a church school teach high standards if it's fine for THEm to have affairs, or drink, or cuss, or do any of the things that they are teaching against.

Do you want a financial adviser that has filed for bankruptcy three times and had two foreclosures? He may be teaching how to balance a budget, but he's not doing it himself.

How about a nutritionist who is 385 pounds? Would you believe them?

A allergist who smokes?

I don't think Christians need to lower the standards just because it's not 1960. If anything it's time to raise their standards to give others with high standards a chance. Those with low standards need to build a bridge and get over it, because perhaps it's time for a little less tolerance.
I absolutely LOVE this post! So very true in every aspect!
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laundrymom 11:23 AM 08-25-2011
I will tread lightly, I respect you, your posts are thoughtful, helpful and usually non discriminatory. I have to be honest when I say, I think someone may have hacked your acct and written this post. However I realize this may just be your hot button. I am not one to stir up trouble. I'm not one to label, point fingers, or try to hide my feelings.
I am bothered by your statement that in a moment of intense fear, horror or shock, that most would respond by cursing.
Personally,..
When I am scared I call on my Lord. I do not curse in his name.
When my closest male relative took his life in a very gruesome way, I cried for God to help me understand, when my best friends daughter was diagnosed with leukemia I fell to my knees in prayer for her, when my niece died of SIDS I wept while praying for healing for her parents. I never once thought to curse, but to ask for help. I really try to think before I post. I try to get my thoughts in check before I say something.

I think there are a lot more people who respond like me. Also, I can't think where it says in my bible that I cannot drink alcohol if I choose to. Which I don't but that's not the point.



Originally Posted by wdmmom:
This pre-school/daycare is so worried about a code of conduct and ensuring that these childcare workers live up to their high standards.

It seems very discriminatory to me.

Are you going to kick patrons out of your church for living that way?! Even the strongest bible thumper is going to have a drink every so often. What about the guy sitting in the back pew that lost his job because he's an alcoholic? Are you going to condemn him too?!

WE ARE ALL SINNERS!!!!!

That is why some choose to go to church...forgiveness of sins. Even the holy book says that we are all sinners and we all sin everyday in some way, shape or form. (Of course not those exact words.)

No two families live the same. These are rules this employer is setting forth. I'm sure there is no "grace period" or excuse if you disobey.

(For example: If you just got a phone call telling you that your sister was in a car accident and they aren't going to survive, do you mean to tell me you aren't going to swear or even take the lords name in vain?!) I guarantee 99% of us would be guilty.

This employer needs to realize that this isn't the 1960's anymore. Women do not act all prim and proper like they used to and I think that is what they are expecting.

They want June Cleaver working in their daycare center wearing dresses and high heels.

When they get off their high horse and don't have any employees or so few that they can't operate, maybe they'll realize that this isn't a democracy!

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unregistered member 11:29 AM 08-25-2011
Wow. They are being racists. No way would I tolerate that. Not a chance. SO happy my children don't have to be exposed to crap like that.
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youretooloud 11:36 AM 08-25-2011
Originally Posted by unregistered:
Wow. They are being racists. No way would I tolerate that. Not a chance. SO happy my children don't have to be exposed to crap like that.

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familyschoolcare 11:44 AM 08-25-2011
Originally Posted by unregistered:
Wow. They are being racists. No way would I tolerate that. Not a chance. SO happy my children don't have to be exposed to crap like that.
How are they being racists what does once race have to do with the way they live their life?
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unregistered member 11:47 AM 08-25-2011
Originally Posted by familyschoolcare:
How are they being racists what does once race have to do with the way they live their life?
From what I read it sounds like the daycare doesn't want homosexuals working there? Did I miss something or did some peopke just add that in their posts. That was what I was referring too. If that's the truth then it's sad and wrong.
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momofsix 11:47 AM 08-25-2011
Originally Posted by laundrymom:
I will tread lightly, I respect you, your posts are thoughtful, helpful and usually non discriminatory. I have to be honest when I say, I think someone may have hacked your acct and written this post. However I realize this may just be your hot button. I am not one to stir up trouble. I'm not one to label, point fingers, or try to hide my feelings.
I am bothered by your statement that in a moment of intense fear, horror or shock, that most would respond by cursing.
Personally,..
When I am scared I call on my Lord. I do not curse in his name.
When my closest male relative took his life in a very gruesome way, I cried for God to help me understand, when my best friends daughter was diagnosed with leukemia I fell to my knees in prayer for her, when my niece died of SIDS I wept while praying for healing for her parents. I never once thought to curse, but to ask for help. I really try to think before I post. I try to get my thoughts in check before I say something.

I think there are a lot more people who respond like me. Also, I can't think where it says in my bible that I cannot drink alcohol if I choose to. Which I don't but that's not the point.
Beautifu response Laundry, my thoughts exactly.
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Blackcat31 11:50 AM 08-25-2011
Originally Posted by unregistered:
Wow. They are being racists. No way would I tolerate that. Not a chance. SO happy my children don't have to be exposed to crap like that.
This has nothing to do with racism. Discrimination maybe, but nothing at all to do with racism. Not wanting people of other sexual natures is discriminatory not racist. Racism has to do only with a persons race.

It is the perogative of the religious entity to have whatever rules they feel they need.

I strongly believe ~ to each his own and we can all run our programs and businesses in any manner we feel comfortable with so long as we are inside the legal parameters set forth by our governing bodies. I am not sure why, but I am sort of offended that you state "So happy my children do not have to be exposed to this crap."

Eventually, when your children do go to school, they will be exposed to many different life styles and beliefs. Some will be the same as their own and others will vary vastly but to call someone else's beliefs carp is really intolerant IMHO.



Maybe that isn't exactly what you meant and if not I apologize but I LOVE that we can come on this forum and read and discuss like adults differing viewpoints.
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Unregistered 11:55 AM 08-25-2011
That school could really let some good teachers pass by because of how strict their expectation are.

Also, I have been a teacher at a christian daycare and the parent of a child at that daycare and I went to a catholic school until I was a freshman. I was great at following the daycare's policies during daycare hours, which was all that they expected of me. I'm not saying that I left work and immediately thought "Alright! It's 5:30PM and I've got some sinning to do!".

As far as my schooling was concerned, I feel like I would have benefited more from a secular school. The nuns never seemed even remotely happy and they were very irritated with children who asked questions about faith. I grew up feeling like I was a bad christian because I didn't readily accept what I was taught without understanding it. I can see the potential for this happening with the daycare that's in the news.

I don't have a problem with faith based schools. I really don't. I just think that this particular daycare's expectations are unfair. As long as the teachers are doing their jobs well and following the policies when they are working, then their free time shouldn't be scrutinized unless there's a valid reason to do so.
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nannyde 11:55 AM 08-25-2011
Originally Posted by unregistered:
From what I read it sounds like the daycare doesn't want homosexuals working there? Did I miss something or did some peopke just add that in their posts. That was what I was referring too. If that's the truth then it's sad and wrong.
This is in their terms
You are not currently practicing a homosexual or bisexual lifestyle.
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unregistered member 11:56 AM 08-25-2011
Yup, discrimination. That's the right word. Thanks.
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Tags:business ethics, christian, niche market, private school, religion
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