I'm in Canada, and have been following the case of the woman being charged with murder in Ontario for shaking a 14 month old baby girl. It is such a terrible tragedy. What if she didn't do it? She hasn't been tried yet, but I've been looking up past cases where home daycare providers are charged and usually convicted of manslaughter/murder/abuse when they swear that they didn't do anything. From what i've been reading, symptoms can take up to 48 hours to show, so the injury very well could have taken place at home, under someone else's care. Does this ever worry anyone? Is there anything that we, as home daycare providers can do, to protect ourselves? Since we often see children for more waking hours than their parents do, it seems to make sense to me that we would be the first to notice symtoms, but that doesn't mean that the injury took place at our home. Anyway, I just want to hear others thoughts on this issue.

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Yes, this worries me a lot. Not only can it take a while for symptoms to show, other things can mimic symptoms of SBS. I can't remember where I read it (online somewhere) where a ton of people were accused/convicted of SBS and they also said they didn't do it - and there were reports of studies done saying that some immunizations can cause symptoms that mimic SBS.

The only thing I know to do to protect myself is to document ANY behavior that is AT ALL different than usual. Check the child over every time they come through the door and if there is any difference in their normal look/behavior, document it. I'm especially nervous if parents bring child to dc right after immunizations - I'm very watchful for anything out of the ordinary.

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Yes, I don't have any infants in care right now but as I see stories on the news of daycare workers being charged for various reasons, I worry for myself...wondering if they are being wrongfully accused and if I would ever be wrongfuly accused for something I never did in this business. For instance, on my local news a few months ago a male daycare worker was charged for sexual abuse. The accusations came from young girls, so my initial thought was how can they be sure, kids can make up all kinds of stories.

It just makes you wonder...you could do absolutely nothing wrong and be put in jail. It's a scary thought, as a mother with a family I couldn't imagine being thrown in jail and the impact it would have on my family, for a crime never committed.

As the previous poster stated, all we can do to protect ourselves is document EVERYTHING and ANYTHING unusual and always do a complete check of the child upon arrival...for any bruises or any unusual behavior.

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I think that is a fear that we all have...

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Makes one seriously think of having some type of camera, recording device set up in their home doesn't it?

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Yes, there are pros and cons to having recrrding/monitors devices in the daycare. We had a previous article about CCTVs and one director that used the recorded data to clear himself. https://www.daycare.com/story/daycar...o_cameras.html

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I've been following it too, and I've noticed the subtle bias of the press (or the people they're interviewing) against unlicensed home daycares. As an unlicensed provider that is doing everything legally, it drives me nuts.

Apparently this woman was licensed, but her licensor took it away because she had too many kids, so she's been operating without a license ever since. So yes, she was operating illegally because she had too many kids to go without a license. But it really casts a bad light on for rest of us who are operating legally . I actually added a page to my daycare website listing the requirements for licensed and unlicensed home daycares in response to this news item.

Conversely, I had a mom stop by unannounced on Saturday (when I'm closed) and ask me to break the law by taking her three kids for a half-hour to an hour each day (putting me over ratio by exactly 3 kids ). Of course, she didn't phrase it that way, and she was pretty insistent. Oi! Can't win for losing .

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also, (I haven't read the article) but I want to point out, on this forum there are so many that have little infants in their care, what I'm talking about is 2,3 or even 4 little ones under the age of 1. Now don't tell me that this is not asking for trouble, read the posts, in the last month, there have been so many about sleeping and crying issues you seriously start to wonder. (I'm not saying that not every one can do it, but read the posts, you start to wonder)

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I think we may be just seeing more people ask about tips and tricks. I don't necessarily think the problem has gotten bigger, I just think we are asking about things more. You dont see many posts about people just saying things, usually the posts are questions about what to do or asking for advice....the forum has grown bigger with more members on it so I think it is just coming out like there are more issues with young infants when really there are just more people online. People use forums for advice not to just say this is great!! I dunno, I see your point too but I am always playing devil's advocate sooo.....

But back on topic, the whole situation is exactly why I am VERY hesitant to take on infants in care. I do have 2 right now, but one is a sibling of a family I have had in care for 6 years and one is a family friend so I'm feeling okay right now..but I have had a few times in the past where I have interviewed a family and chosen not to take them because the mom was like 18 and dad was in and out of her life and I just had a weird feeling so I passed...I don't mean any disrespect to young moms but that is one thing that does concern me. Boy, this is a hard topic......

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Re: many people asking about sleeping/crying issues, or even just venting about them

I would say that the fact that we have somewhere to come to vent that frustration, to get sympathy and commiseration from other who are or who have been in those same situations, means that we are *that much less likely* to end up doing any harm. We have the presence of mind to vent the frustration HERE rather than IRL (as in, at the baby). We have a support system, and that is invaluable.

It's the providers that don't have the presence of mind to get advice, help, sympathy, someone who cares, who are of more concern for me.

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I am GLAD to see questions here about crying babies! We need to TALK ABOUT the frustration and stress a crying baby causes. Above all else we need to tell all providers that it is OK to put the baby in a crib and WALK AWAY. Or call the parent to come and get the child if you can't stand to listen to the crying anymore. If the baby is red faced and screaming, it is OK to take a break, collect yourself, and go back in to calm the baby after you have taken care of yourself mentally/emotionally.

If a provider can't deal with a certain child, TERMINATE that child. It does NOT make you a bad person or unreliable. It makes you human. Not all personalities mesh, including adult and child personalities. There is no fault in that!!

There is such a stigma attached to a provider not being able to care for every single child who walks through her door. Some kids are high strung, some are just unhappy kids, and we need to talk about it! Providers can't "save" each child who they meet. Sometimes a child needs to go home for the day or be let go from the daycare in order to do what is right for ALL involved.

This is a topic that needs to be aired out in order to STOP more violence against kids. So I encourage EVERY SINGLE PROVIDER to find a supportive network online or in real life and TALK, TALK, TALK honestly about the stress and isolation we feel on a daily basis as providers. Ask for help if you need it! Reach out to a provider who is new in your area and share tips about dealing with our job. It is a hard job and a valuable job, but no amount of money is worth the life of a child or your future.

So KEEP TALKING!!!!

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Very well said JenNJ.

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Thank you!!!!! Cannot be said enough!!!!!!

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This is a GREAT post.

I have to disagree on one point.

There is such a stigma attached to a provider not being able to care for every single child who walks through her door. Some kids are high strung, some are just unhappy kids, and we need to talk about it! Providers can't "save" each child who they meet. Sometimes a child needs to go home for the day or be let go from the daycare in order to do what is right for ALL involved.

I don't think that's true at all. I think that is often used as the rationale for keeping kids that don't mesh but I think 99.999999999999 percent of the time it is ONE reason and that is money. I think providers feel uncomfortable saying "I want the money" so they come up with this as an acceptable reason to endure.

I've counselled a LOT of providers in my nearly 18 years of doing day care and I haven't ran into too many providers who after really talking to them they didn't pinpoint the main reason as money. If someone came along and offered you a guranteed years worth of salary on that slot whether the kid came or not pretty much every provider would take the money and get rid of the kid as soon as they possibly could.. most likely immediately.

I think we have a lot of "rage" babies now. I think this is a result of the trend for "no cry" parenting and the use of motion equipment soothing and battery toys that are taking up their every minute of life.

These babies are so overloaded. It's not going to get better folks. We are going to see a lot more babies and toddlers with EXTREME anger, flickering minds, poor sleep/rest patterns, and poor diets.

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I agree with you Nannyde. The way kids are being parented lately is horrible, and is truly creating monsters.

I also agree that a huge reason why providers don't want to term difficult children is that we simply can't afford to go without the income, and, with the economy being as rocky as it is, we don't know how long it will be for us to fill the space.

That leads to huge levels of stress on us. That's the thing, we deal with countless stressors throughout the day. When a child is miserable, that stresses EVERYONE out - the other kids, AND us - and when the other kids are stressed, they start crying as well, which just escalates the issue until it does become hard to cope with. And if money is the major motivating factor for "saving" the daycare relationship, then BANG! Guess where we end up?

I've been in a situation where I was really concerned that I was going to lose control. It was a scary place to be. And at the same time, I had another dcb leaving the province so that was 2 spaces that would be empty at the same time, and incredibly difficult to fill. I terminated anyway. It was the best decision I ever made. We were broke for 4 months after that because it took that long to fill the spaces, but we managed, and I kept my sanity, and that made the struggle worth it.

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I agree with Nan in general; however on this site, there are providers who start degrading other providers when they want to terminate. I've seen several posts by a few individuals who will consistently say things like children aren't disposable, or go on and on about how THEY could fix it. It makes me really sad and angry it happens, but it happens on this board ALOT!

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its not the questions that bother me, its when the providers tell us the ages of kids they have in their care. I'm sorry, having a whole load of little ones under the age of 1 is completely insane, you can't do it, no matter what you say and come on here and post, you physically and mentally can't do it.
as for the terminating part---I belong to another forum, it irks me so much that every time anyone of us has a problem ie.napping the first response out of many of their mouths are TERMINATE. they are also people who also love to say...."maybe you should give up on daycare" so this forum is nothing to the other one.
I also think as providers our biggest problem is that "we want to fix everyone and don't want to pass the "buck" around" we do everything and if we can't fix something it feels like we failed on our part.

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Nan,

I typed a post to partially disagree that it was money related.....that it was about "Professional Reputation". It went in a circle until I proved myself wrong and my conclusion was that you are right..... It all comes back to income. This is how I support my family.

In effect my being able to "handle difficult children" IS all about being able to bring in a more diverse clientele, a specialized niche market and a better income.

My personal saving grace is that I have enough self esteem, now, and years under my belt to know when to say "This child is not a good fit". It would be very difficult to start with today's "no-parenting parents" and a culture that tells us separating a child is cruel. Sometimes separating a child keeps him safe from the group AND the caretaker. We are all human.

We also should never be afraid to terminate, it could be the best thing we EVER do for a child.

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Oh yes, it does come down to money for a lot (if not most) providers. But I was referring specifically to THIS board. Like Jen said, THIS board has a lot of women who spout out judgmental responses when someone utters the word "termination." I was judged pretty harshly for letting a child go after just 3.5 days. He was a spoiled child with an anger and hitting problem. He forced himself to scream and cry until he vomited. I do not carry one ounce of regret for calling his mother and telling her she needed to leave her job and get him out of my house NOW. Letting him go was one of the best decisions I made for MYSELF.

We all need to support one another, instead of tearing one another down. We all do things differently. I doubt you could find 2 providers who agree on every issue on this board, but we still need to realize that when someone posts here out of frustration, anger, exhaustion, or stress we don't need to judge them. We need to help diffuse the situation or offer advice on how to best deal with it.

I think we see a rise in violence against kids bc of who is in this business now. There are a lot of "recession" providers out three now. People who are trained in another field and were laid of, fired, or unable to find work so they resorted to "babysitting" to keep themselves stable financially. There isn't anything wrong with that but it can be a lot harder than many people think. Just because you were and awesome CFO, paralegal, or head of the HR department and thrived on that stress and fast pace doesn't mean you would thrive on the stress and fast pace of home childcare.

And I totally agree that the way kids are raised now has a large part to do with the attitudes of children today.

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I agree 100%. There is nothing to be gained from harshly judging another provider who is looking for help or an outlet.

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Perhaps more providers should be more selective in accepting children and not accept the first child to come along!

Here is my current ad that I have up. I am in no hurry to fill it!

High Quality Childcare Available May-June

I provide a fun stimulating, safe, clean environment with lots of activities and learning experiences for children from 6 months of age up to school age. I am very organized & reliable. I would like to provide my services on a long term basis. Most of the children that I have cared for have remained with me from the time they were babies/toddlers until leaving me to go to school.

At this time I will have only one space available for one child 12 months of age or older. I will begin interviews beginning at the end of January until mid February. After interviews are done, I will select the best fit for our little group. I do not accept the first family that I interview as I feel that the interview process should go both ways. Not only are you searching for the BEST child care provider for your child/family, I also need to choose the best fit my day children.


Exceptional references available as well as a current clear criminal check!

For more info email please email ..............................

It works great for me and I have SUPER families and children!

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I don't know about this - i'm trained in a different field, have a university degree in science and started doing this job because I needed money, and wanted to stay home with my children while I made it. If we didn't need money, I suppose we wouldn't be working at all. I love this job, have done it for years now, and I don't see myself stopping anytime soon. I have met people who are trained in the childcare field (the director of my daughters last daycare is whom i'm thinking of) and who were terrible with children. She would yell at them, grab them by the arms and leave bruises, force children to sit on the potty until they would cry if she was 'potty training' them.

I don't know how to predict what kind of person would ever shake a baby. I know that I would never do it - god, my youngest child screamed for the first year of her life - almost non stop. Of course, it is happening - babies are being terribly abused and harmed by shaking - by childcare providers and parents alike. My biggest fear in this career is that I will be falsely accused and possibly convicted of doing such a terrible thing. I think that is happening to both parents and providers as well!! I can see how camera work in big centers, and if I ran a center, I would definitely invest in a monitoring system to protect ME, but in a small home daycare, what do you do? I won't put a camera in every room in my home, I don't want a camera in any room in my home!! I guess I could set up my handicam and burn video's of each day in the main area where we play - you would have audio that way too, which would (at least in my small home) hear what was going on in the other rooms. The only other solution that I can think of is to always have two adults present - so hire an assistant. That way, there is always a witness.

nanyde, you seem to have some pretty set routines in place - how do you protect yourself against such an accusation?

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All too often the decision whether or not to terminate a child comes down to money instead of doing the right thing for everyone involved. I've done it myself so I know how the debating goes. Money vs. peace of mind. I've chosen money before and I've regretted it each and every time. Sometimes a child is just not a good fit no matter what you say or do, no matter how many times that you try to get the parents on the same page as you. It never seems to work. Once I realized that I mattered too, and that I didn't have to compromise my own peace of mind and my love for my job just to get the income from a child who just isn't working out, I was much happier.

A large part of avoiding situations like the one with the 14 month old little girl is to look at the big picture and ask yourself if a screaming, crying, inconsolable child is worth sacrificing everything that you've worked to build.

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i too am in Ontario, Canada and know of the case of the shaken infant and the accused daycare provider...I remember reading of a case years ago where the provider was charged with shaking the baby but was proven innocent because somehow they found out that one of the parents had actually done it and the baby didn't succumb to the injuries for more than 48 hours....that is SO horrible for the provider and the parent that DIDN'T do it!

I am bothered by the fact they they always go on and on about it being an "unlicensed" daycare home...does that mean that "unlicensed" means murder??? I am unlicensed and go by the rules as well.. and I am SO offended and upset by that kind of "accusation"...I never would nor ever will shake a baby!! Just because a place is unlicensed doesn't mean that they are dangerous places to leave your kids!

I'm not sure what really happened with the recent baby death but I'm sure that things will be looked into very carefully and I hope that every person involved in that baby's life will be scrutinized as well....

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I've thought about this since yesterday and it's a complex answer.

I'm pretty picky about who I take on as clients and spend a good five hours or so with them before they start.

I don't allow sleeping kids to enter my care. I don't allow car seats in my home. When the kids come in every day they have to be wide awake. I do a check of them to make sure they LOOK normal.

I have the same kids for years so any little change in their behavior would be noticeable.

I know there is only so much I can do. If a parent harms a child before they come here I will be in the line of fire. It's what I do once I know something is wrong that really matters.

I go by TELL. Tell parents right away and if you make a mistake TELL the parents right away.

I have a staff assistant and have had one for the last seventeen years. I have long term staff assistants who have watched me work up close and personal for five years, seven years, with the current one being nearly at the two year mark. If they ever get called as a witness and have to raise their right hand they are going to be able to testify that I have never been physical or mean with a child.

My staff assistant is on camera.

I train my Staff from day ONE to never allow a kid to get to you. They always have me to take over if what they are doing is not working.

I have a sound proof nursery and portable cameras. If a kid is crying with nothing apparently correctable then I can give them the place to cry and watch them without hearing it.

I have a significant amount of space for each kid. 150 square foot for each kid.

I have a one adult to four kid ratio.

I don't use motion to solve crying.

I don't use pacifiers.

I do a TON of belly time from newborn on.

We go outside every possible day we can.

I get them on a feed/sleep/exercise schedule within a week or so of being here.

I don't do anything but formula or breast milk until they are eight months old.

Napping rooms are pitch black dark.

The babies play toys from the time they can reach, grab, and pull to mouth or finger toys. They have their own play yards (18 square foot) to get their play on. The play yards have about fifty to a hundred toys in each one and we rotate them out depending on age and ability.

I meet crying with calm and I am not in the business of trying to fix all crying. I understand that babies cry and don't take it personally. I provide good schedules of feeding, diapering, play, sleep, and outdoor time. I know when I've done a good job for them and don't let them talk me out of it.

So there are some of the things... the bricks in the wall of good care. I think you have to pick your families, know your kids, watch your staff, check yourself, and have a GOOD SOLID PLAN and set up for managing crying.

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Seems silly to me that we should ever have to resort to something like this, but I have myself considered setting up a camera or two in my home. Just so that if any injuries/bruises etc occur, they can be explained and proven by rolling back a video.
It is very scary to think about being accused of something like that. Especially with all the jerks out there who do crap like that, and give us all bad names. Whether you are a daycare provider, nurse, homecare aid, etc. So many of them take advantage of it.

SBS can happen many ways too, it's not just someone taking a baby and shaking the heck outta it. It can happen when you are playing with them, bouncing them on your knee, throwing them in the air, etc. My husband has always thrown my kids up and caught them. I always warned him about the SBS and said not to, but that's how daddy's play with their kids. Thank goodness I've been lucky, 3 kids and no SBS, but I guess it could happen. Sometimes men forget their strength, even women for that matter.

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I want to stay at Nannydes house... Such a rock star!

Seriously, though, I would feel safe leaving my kids with you. You obviously put a lot of thought and planning into your business. This was never the "easiest" choice for you. I peeked at your website, AMAZING.

I wish I had "known" you when I was first starting out.

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I'm pretty sure you need to recheck your information--It takes a LOT of very violent shaking to injure a child to the point of it being SBS. Regular playing can NOT cause it. Even men playing with babies in their more "rough housey" manner can't cause SBS through regular playing/bouncing/tossing up and down. The violence required to actually injure an infant like that is WAY WAY more than would ever occur with regular playing. I googled "Can shaken baby syndrome be caused by regular playing" and came up with tons of results...all agreeing that regular bouncing and play can NOT cause it. ONE result (from Penn State) mentioned RARE instances where SBS could be caused accidentally by jogging with baby in a backpack or tossing up in the air. Every source agreed that SBS is caused by NON-ACCIDENTAL trauma.

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It's very hard to know for sure. So much of this type of information is floating around. Not just about SBS but even SIDS. How many parents don't admit truth with certain things. When a parent is neglectful or abusive, they are not going to flat out admit it. Especially with a circumstance of death.

General play would not cause SBS, but if someone is throwing a child up in the air and catching it repeatedly, with some force, even if the child is laughing, it is enough for a small child (i'm not saying a 6 yr old I'm talking about maybe a 1 yr old-2 yr old) with heavy heads flopping back and forth could be enough to shake up the brain. SBS is baby syndrome and not adult syndrome because their brains are smaller and there is more room for them to move around inside the skull, and that can cause internal bleeding. It is not likely, but it is possible.

Everyone is told to not put comforters, blankets, pillows, or stuffed animals in a baby's bed. If you didn't listen, and filled your childs bed with stuffies, and the child suffocated itself, would you admit that you filled the bed with stuffies? I hope you would, but just think how many parents would omit certain information such as that. Maybe they'd say well it was 1 stuffed animal, and it was on the bottom of the crib no where near the head.

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Yes but you should NEVER throw babies up in the air in your playing with them... EVER EVER EVER

Gravity can not be defied regardless of your intent.

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Yes, I know that, thank you. I didn't say you should or that it was a good idea. And I definitely didn't say that I do that.

Again...yes, I know that...the Penn State source did state that it was a rare occurance...or, put another way, "Not likely, but possible".

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