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Daycare Center and Family Home Forum>Red 40 And Behavior Issues
jen2651 12:33 PM 10-05-2011
Ok, here is the background on this story and I was just hoping to see if anyone else had any input/thoughts.
Started care FT for dg sept 6. She will be 5 in nov. We had great days and we had horrific days. The bad ones were so bad. I'm talking 2 hour completely out of control fits...almost as if she was possessed. Tried everything..thing was, it was like someone else had taken over her body and mind.
Last week I did LOTS of research. I came to the conclussion these outbursts may be due to red 40. Sure enough, I started really reading labels, and realized the worst days I had fed her red 40 for breakfast...one of a parent testimonials was what got me thinking...when in a tantrum, she would blink a lot. There were a few parents who said their kids would do that too.
So, upon eliminating red 40, I have a wonderful dg...going on a full week with not one outburst...coincidence?
Started care FT for dg sept 6. She will be 5 in nov. We had great days and we had horrific days. The bad ones were so bad. I'm talking 2 hour completely out of control fits...almost as if she was possessed. Tried everything..thing was, it was like someone else had taken over her body and mind.
Last week I did LOTS of research. I came to the conclussion these outbursts may be due to red 40. Sure enough, I started really reading labels, and realized the worst days I had fed her red 40 for breakfast...one of a parent testimonials was what got me thinking...when in a tantrum, she would blink a lot. There were a few parents who said their kids would do that too.
So, upon eliminating red 40, I have a wonderful dg...going on a full week with not one outburst...coincidence?
Kaddidle Care 01:13 PM 10-05-2011
So glad you pinpointed it - but it's sad that her own parents didn't find this out first.
Diet and behavior go hand in hand.
Have you discussed this with her parents so that they don't feed her red dye on the weekends?
Diet and behavior go hand in hand.
Have you discussed this with her parents so that they don't feed her red dye on the weekends?
sharlan 01:21 PM 10-05-2011
Possible, but if it works for you, continue to ban it.
I've not seen any evidence that it makes a difference with my kids.
I've not seen any evidence that it makes a difference with my kids.
cheerfuldom 01:41 PM 10-05-2011
the only families I know that are big on the red 40 ban are families that have very little structure and poor diets to begin with. I have a hard time seeing that the red 40 is "causing" more behavior issues than the poor parenting. It always seems like it is easier to blame something than to address an issues from every area possible. I hope it makes a difference for you, it has just been my experience that it doesn't. I have noticed though that a lot of the red 40 stuff is junk food anyway and that is a good enough reason to me to not feed it to the kids.
SilverSabre25 01:50 PM 10-05-2011
Yes, red 40 can have horrific effects on people. I doubt it's a coincidence. Red 40 is awful...well, all food dyes are.
jen2651 01:59 PM 10-05-2011
Originally Posted by cheerfuldom:
the only families I know that are big on the red 40 ban are families that have very little structure and poor diets to begin with. I have a hard time seeing that the red 40 is "causing" more behavior issues than the poor parenting. It always seems like it is easier to blame something than to address an issues from every area possible. I hope it makes a difference for you, it has just been my experience that it doesn't. I have noticed though that a lot of the red 40 stuff is junk food anyway and that is a good enough reason to me to not feed it to the kids.
It is everywhere! Betty Crocker blueberry muffin mix, strawberry frosted miniwheats, most jellies (not palner sp?), some tortilla chips...I think you all may be surprised.the only families I know that are big on the red 40 ban are families that have very little structure and poor diets to begin with. I have a hard time seeing that the red 40 is "causing" more behavior issues than the poor parenting. It always seems like it is easier to blame something than to address an issues from every area possible. I hope it makes a difference for you, it has just been my experience that it doesn't. I have noticed though that a lot of the red 40 stuff is junk food anyway and that is a good enough reason to me to not feed it to the kids.
Parents are great...they seem to have the ability to minize the effects tho
Meyou 05:44 AM 10-06-2011
Originally Posted by SilverSabre25:
Yes, red 40 can have horrific effects on people. I doubt it's a coincidence. Red 40 is awful...well, all food dyes are.
I agree. My dd reacts horribly to it. My doctor first suggested eliminating all dies when she was less than 2 because she would have bouts of extreme hyperactivity. It was life changing. Some people are severely, severely reactive to food dyes and additives.Yes, red 40 can have horrific effects on people. I doubt it's a coincidence. Red 40 is awful...well, all food dyes are.
Kaddidle Care 06:40 AM 10-06-2011
My son gets that way from too much Kool Aid (red, of course.) I always assumed it was the sugar but it could be the red dye as well. Needless to say, he doesn't have it often.
Country Kids 06:45 AM 10-06-2011
I have a friend that if your son has anytype of red dye he get horrible migranes. He will have to go to bed for days till it is gone. They finally figured it out and he never has them now.
kitkat 07:26 AM 10-06-2011
When I ran a Community Ed after school program we had a little guy who has autism and we had to avoid red 40 and yellow. We avoided those colors like the plague! It's been 6 years now so I've forgotten how much stuff it's in, but I totally buy into it having an effect on behavior.
SilverSabre25 07:43 AM 10-06-2011
Originally Posted by cheerfuldom:
the only families I know that are big on the red 40 ban are families that have very little structure and poor diets to begin with. I have a hard time seeing that the red 40 is "causing" more behavior issues than the poor parenting. It always seems like it is easier to blame something than to address an issues from every area possible. I hope it makes a difference for you, it has just been my experience that it doesn't. I have noticed though that a lot of the red 40 stuff is junk food anyway and that is a good enough reason to me to not feed it to the kids.
this statement has been bothering me since yesterday and I'm not quite sure how to handle it, but I feel like it needs addressed. the only families I know that are big on the red 40 ban are families that have very little structure and poor diets to begin with. I have a hard time seeing that the red 40 is "causing" more behavior issues than the poor parenting. It always seems like it is easier to blame something than to address an issues from every area possible. I hope it makes a difference for you, it has just been my experience that it doesn't. I have noticed though that a lot of the red 40 stuff is junk food anyway and that is a good enough reason to me to not feed it to the kids.
"the only families I know that are big on the red 40 ban are families that have very little structure and poor diets to begin with. "
May I ask exactly how you come to this conclusion? I don't know ANYONE who is even aware of a push to ban red 40/all food dyes, that isn't a family of people who tend to be very into eating healthy, natural, organic, whole food, etc. This may be unfair on my side--but as far as I can tell, most people who have poor diets (in this case, dye-filled) are not going to CARE about the dyes, or use the arguement "but it's in my food so it's safe" etc.
I have a hard time seeing that the red 40 is "causing" more behavior issues than the poor parenting.
In some people, yes, the dye is going to cause major issues. It's like an allergy--your body reacts to it in an unfavorable way. Like some people can't have dairy, or gluten, or peanuts for the same reason. Some people are fine, some people are not. Unless you are going to say that an anaphylactic peanut reaction or horrible gas from milk is caused by poor parenting, you should think about accepting that some people are "allergic"
It always seems like it is easier to blame something than to address an issues from every area possible.
No offense, but...you are doing this very thing. You are blaming the behavior on the parenting rather than addressing every area possible, in this case, food dyes.
The sad thing with food dyes is that they have been (if I remember correctly) banned in Europe, and many of our common products have dye-free version being sold in Europe. The cost difference is minimal. Most of us would barely notice a difference if everything switched to being dye free.
littlemommy 08:27 AM 10-06-2011
At the daycare I worked at a couple years ago, there was a 4 year old boy who was autistic and had ADHD. His parents took him to a more natural minded doctor, who said to look at his diet. They eliminated gluten and red #40, and within days he was like a different kid. He could actually sit still for a couple minutes rather than bouncing all over. His parents noticed a big change.
I think most parents that eat packaged foods, fast food-the convenient type things, aren't going to care about what's in it. If they cared about artificial dyes, you'd think they would also care about GMO's and pesticides being in their food.
I try to do research on these things so I am aware of what I am putting into my family's and my DC kid's bodies. I know most of the families I care for couldn't care less what their children eat, but it means something to me.
I think most parents that eat packaged foods, fast food-the convenient type things, aren't going to care about what's in it. If they cared about artificial dyes, you'd think they would also care about GMO's and pesticides being in their food.
I try to do research on these things so I am aware of what I am putting into my family's and my DC kid's bodies. I know most of the families I care for couldn't care less what their children eat, but it means something to me.
cheerfuldom 09:35 AM 10-06-2011
well I stand by what I said. Thats my opinion and I am entitled to it. I did support the OP in her research to find out the cause of this behavior which she felt included additives. I always applaud anyone who is proactive for the safe and well being of a child. My experience comes from several families that removed food dyes and did not have the life changing behavioral changes they were expecting. I am sure there are different experiences out there but this is mine.
Pammie 09:40 AM 10-06-2011
Originally Posted by cheerfuldom:
I am sure there are different experiences out there but this is mine.
Well, I'm one with a different experience! I've had 2 dc children officially diagnosed with red dye allergies by medical doctors - children's allergists through our city's children's hospital. Their behavior is significantly different when they've consumed even the smallest amount of red dye and when they don't. It's truly torture for these kids to **try** and behave normally with the dye in their system.I am sure there are different experiences out there but this is mine.
Meyou 09:52 AM 10-06-2011
Originally Posted by cheerfuldom:
well I stand by what I said. Thats my opinion and I am entitled to it. I did support the OP in her research to find out the cause of this behavior which she felt included additives. I always applaud anyone who is proactive for the safe and well being of a child. My experience comes from several families that removed food dyes and did not have the life changing behavioral changes they were expecting. I am sure there are different experiences out there but this is mine.
I'm one of them too. My youngest has ADHD and is very sensitive to most food additives including red and yellow dyes. My dad gets migraines from red and yellow dyes plus aspartame, MSG and nitrates. well I stand by what I said. Thats my opinion and I am entitled to it. I did support the OP in her research to find out the cause of this behavior which she felt included additives. I always applaud anyone who is proactive for the safe and well being of a child. My experience comes from several families that removed food dyes and did not have the life changing behavioral changes they were expecting. I am sure there are different experiences out there but this is mine.
I think part of the problem these days is that there is a heavy overuse of parents wanting medical reasons for their children's bad behavior. Which WE know is most often bad parenting. People would rather have a good excuse ready like "it's the dye! It's the dye!" than say no and enforce the rules at home. I can see where the line can be blurry and one person may have all naughty kids while another could have a couple with real dye allergies.
Believe me when I say it's AMAZING to see the immediate change in a child with a dye allergy once it's gone. It's remarkable and jaw dropping. Really.
But only if the food additives are the REAL issue.
Kaddidle Care 10:01 AM 10-06-2011
Originally Posted by littlemommy:
At the daycare I worked at a couple years ago, there was a 4 year old boy who was autistic and had ADHD. His parents took him to a more natural minded doctor, who said to look at his diet. They eliminated gluten and red #40, and within days he was like a different kid. He could actually sit still for a couple minutes rather than bouncing all over. His parents noticed a big change.
I was convinced by another Mom (whos children were allergic to citrus) to start a food diet journal for my ADHD son. Peanut products jumped off the page when he had behavioral problems. He is not allergic to it but he reacts to it. At the daycare I worked at a couple years ago, there was a 4 year old boy who was autistic and had ADHD. His parents took him to a more natural minded doctor, who said to look at his diet. They eliminated gluten and red #40, and within days he was like a different kid. He could actually sit still for a couple minutes rather than bouncing all over. His parents noticed a big change.
I thought we had it down pat until one day he had a Nature Valley Granola Bar as a snack prior to going to Boy Scouts. He stared into space and zoned. My husband remarked that he acted like he had peanut butter. I took a harder look at the ingredients and there it was - peanut flour. Oops!
Nowadays packaging makes it easy for those watching for many allergens - Milk, Wheat, Egg, Soy. Red Dye... you've got to search for.
My oldest is now 20 and is very conscious of the way peanut products make him feel and react. He loves Butterfingers - but won't have one unless he has no classes the next day. The reaction lasts a good 18 hours with him.
Unregistered 10:24 AM 10-06-2011
Originally Posted by cheerfuldom:
the only families I know that are big on the red 40 ban are families that have very little structure and poor diets to begin with. I have a hard time seeing that the red 40 is "causing" more behavior issues than the poor parenting. It always seems like it is easier to blame something than to address an issues from every area possible. I hope it makes a difference for you, it has just been my experience that it doesn't. I have noticed though that a lot of the red 40 stuff is junk food anyway and that is a good enough reason to me to not feed it to the kids.
I agree with the person who had issues with this. Hello....... Most families that have very little structure and poor diets, don't give a hoot what is in their food. Do you realize how many products have red 40 in it? Do you know how it is made? Do a google. It's made from bugs, ground bugs. It does effect people that have real allergies or sensitivity's to it, along with a lot of the other junk that is in our foods. Citric Acid is another one. Not all red 40 is junk stuff. Read your labels, you would be surprised. The reactions to these additives are seen in behavior, and not just rashes.the only families I know that are big on the red 40 ban are families that have very little structure and poor diets to begin with. I have a hard time seeing that the red 40 is "causing" more behavior issues than the poor parenting. It always seems like it is easier to blame something than to address an issues from every area possible. I hope it makes a difference for you, it has just been my experience that it doesn't. I have noticed though that a lot of the red 40 stuff is junk food anyway and that is a good enough reason to me to not feed it to the kids.
I agree with addressing issues, but for some people, this is a true issue. UGH!!!
mom2many 10:27 AM 10-06-2011
Originally Posted by Meyou:
I think part of the problem these days is that there is a heavy overuse of parents wanting medical reasons for their children's bad behavior. Which WE know is most often bad parenting. People would rather have a good excuse ready like "it's the dye! It's the dye!" than say no and enforce the rules at home. I can see where the line can be blurry and one person may have all naughty kids while another could have a couple with real dye allergies.
Believe me when I say it's AMAZING to see the immediate change in a child with a dye allergy once it's gone. It's remarkable and jaw dropping. Really. But only if the food additives are the REAL issue.
So VERY true!I think part of the problem these days is that there is a heavy overuse of parents wanting medical reasons for their children's bad behavior. Which WE know is most often bad parenting. People would rather have a good excuse ready like "it's the dye! It's the dye!" than say no and enforce the rules at home. I can see where the line can be blurry and one person may have all naughty kids while another could have a couple with real dye allergies.
Believe me when I say it's AMAZING to see the immediate change in a child with a dye allergy once it's gone. It's remarkable and jaw dropping. Really.
But only if the food additives are the REAL issue.
cheerfuldom 10:53 AM 10-06-2011
Meyou, you said exactly what I was trying to say. I realize that some people legitimately have dye sensitivities. I am only saying that in my experience, the only parents I knew that were discussing dye issues seemed to be using this as an excuse for bad behavior or did not seem proactive in researching a multitude of avenues to solve issues, they just clung on to the thought that it was the dye even when removing dyes did not make a change for them.
jen2651 11:50 AM 10-06-2011
It is in fruit cocktail for petes sakes!!
SilverSabre25 12:08 PM 10-06-2011
Originally Posted by jen2651:
It is in fruit cocktail for petes sakes!!
yep that would be the BRIGHT RED maraschino cherries. It is in fruit cocktail for petes sakes!!
Cheerful, I know that you are entitled to your opinion, trust me. But, as a (not poor parent, better diet than most Americans, not using it as an excuse for squat) person who is adamantly for the banning of the food dyes, I felt very offended by your comment. As I said, it stuck with me, nagging at me. I didn't comment back right away, I did sleep on it. It still made me feel like I needed to respond--I did not mean to make you get defensive or anything.
I guess it's just that as someone who cannot have gluten or dairy, I am hyper aware of all the dumb, pointless additives in food in this country, and I'm opposed to it. There's no need for neon red cherries...regular colored cherries would be just fine. And the green cherries, good grief I don't even WANT to know how they're made. Food in this country is nasty, plain nasty. Did you know that canned mandarin oranges are soaked in lye to get the membranes off the sections? Ew!
Europe has already banned food dyes--the FDA hasn't. I hope you don't think that an entire continent is full of poor parents with no structure and crappy diets? The fact that they are banned over there says TONS about their effects, safety, and necessity in our foods. The manufacturers found natural acceptable alternatives--for the same skittles, starburst, granola bars, and mac n cheese that we eat over here. Some things are almost indistinguishable between the European and the American version, except the dyes. And, there's not much cost difference (fractions of a penny per oz)
WImom 12:38 PM 10-06-2011
Originally Posted by jen2651:
Ok, here is the background on this story and I was just hoping to see if anyone else had any input/thoughts.
Started care FT for dg sept 6. She will be 5 in nov. We had great days and we had horrific days. The bad ones were so bad. I'm talking 2 hour completely out of control fits...almost as if she was possessed. Tried everything..thing was, it was like someone else had taken over her body and mind.
Last week I did LOTS of research. I came to the conclussion these outbursts may be due to red 40. Sure enough, I started really reading labels, and realized the worst days I had fed her red 40 for breakfast...one of a parent testimonials was what got me thinking...when in a tantrum, she would blink a lot. There were a few parents who said their kids would do that too.
So, upon eliminating red 40, I have a wonderful dg...going on a full week with not one outburst...coincidence?
My DD (almost 7y) is this way and we don't eat dyes or HFC's, etc. BUT I can't control other peoples houses, school, grandma's etc. I always know that when she goes to a birthday party, it's a holiday with candy, she had a cupcake at school, etc. that we are going to have a hard time that night. Now, she can get this way somewhat when tired too but not near as bad. I'm going to watch for the blinking. If you happen to still have some links to your research I'd love to see them. Atleast she is an angel at school. Ok, here is the background on this story and I was just hoping to see if anyone else had any input/thoughts.
Started care FT for dg sept 6. She will be 5 in nov. We had great days and we had horrific days. The bad ones were so bad. I'm talking 2 hour completely out of control fits...almost as if she was possessed. Tried everything..thing was, it was like someone else had taken over her body and mind.
Last week I did LOTS of research. I came to the conclussion these outbursts may be due to red 40. Sure enough, I started really reading labels, and realized the worst days I had fed her red 40 for breakfast...one of a parent testimonials was what got me thinking...when in a tantrum, she would blink a lot. There were a few parents who said their kids would do that too.
So, upon eliminating red 40, I have a wonderful dg...going on a full week with not one outburst...coincidence?
Country Kids 01:12 PM 10-06-2011
What about the kids though that eat none of the dyes and eat only very healthy things. I have a couple of children like this in childcare. Bring all their own food-nothing packaged-and they are the hyper, always in trouble, can't settle down kids. Takes at least an hour to settle down for naptime and can't sit still for circle time, story time, etc.
Blackcat31 01:25 PM 10-06-2011
Originally Posted by Country Kids:
What about the kids though that eat none of the dyes and eat only very healthy things. I have a couple of children like this in childcare. Bring all their own food-nothing packaged-and they are the hyper, always in trouble, can't settle down kids. Takes at least an hour to settle down for naptime and can't sit still for circle time, story time, etc.
Sounds like they need more active things to do to burn off that energy. Maybe they are getting to much screen time at home?What about the kids though that eat none of the dyes and eat only very healthy things. I have a couple of children like this in childcare. Bring all their own food-nothing packaged-and they are the hyper, always in trouble, can't settle down kids. Takes at least an hour to settle down for naptime and can't sit still for circle time, story time, etc.
SilverSabre25 01:27 PM 10-06-2011
Originally Posted by Country Kids:
What about the kids though that eat none of the dyes and eat only very healthy things. I have a couple of children like this in childcare. Bring all their own food-nothing packaged-and they are the hyper, always in trouble, can't settle down kids. Takes at least an hour to settle down for naptime and can't sit still for circle time, story time, etc.
No one is saying that food dye is the sole cause of issues like that. They are A cause, nothing more. Look to the previous poster who said that peanut products exacerbated her son's ADHD symptoms. And some kids really are just plain and simple wired differently to where they have ADHD.What about the kids though that eat none of the dyes and eat only very healthy things. I have a couple of children like this in childcare. Bring all their own food-nothing packaged-and they are the hyper, always in trouble, can't settle down kids. Takes at least an hour to settle down for naptime and can't sit still for circle time, story time, etc.
jen2651 06:39 AM 10-07-2011
So ijust wanted to give a quick update. I know this isn't the answer for everyone and every situation. But in this situation I truly am a believer. Different kid 100%. So kind and respectful and eager to please.
I will try and post my research but one of the issues is nothing in the US is documented regarding behavior...all I found was testimonials. As for the eye blinking thing, when she is in a rage/manic episode, she blinks a little bit faster and more pronounced than normal, like she is trying to clear her brain. She has no idea we changed anything at this point...but she refers to the fits as the old ******...the naughty one who wanted to make everything stop. As she was banging her head in my kitchen floor and I recorded her to document for my safety I felt something was really wrong. I watched it afterward,and she truly was not present in that body.
So for us, this is the way to go...just wanted to throw it ou there as a possible behavioral cause.
I will try and post my research but one of the issues is nothing in the US is documented regarding behavior...all I found was testimonials. As for the eye blinking thing, when she is in a rage/manic episode, she blinks a little bit faster and more pronounced than normal, like she is trying to clear her brain. She has no idea we changed anything at this point...but she refers to the fits as the old ******...the naughty one who wanted to make everything stop. As she was banging her head in my kitchen floor and I recorded her to document for my safety I felt something was really wrong. I watched it afterward,and she truly was not present in that body.
So for us, this is the way to go...just wanted to throw it ou there as a possible behavioral cause.
Meyou 08:27 AM 10-07-2011
My dd has trouble focusing her eyes when she's reacting to a dye or preservative. If I ask her to look at me you can see her straining but her eyes just roll all over the place. She can look for a sec and then they're rolling, sometimes so fast they seem to be going in different directions. Along with eye blinking. It's actually how I tell now if she's just super hyper (too little time outside running around) or if she's gotten into something that she's reacting to.
When she's hyper she can look me in the eye even if the rest of her can't stay still. If she's reacting she can't and she'll often tell me she can't control herself even though she's trying. She's 7 and starting to recognize the signs in her body when she's reacting to something and will verbalize it. She feels as out of control as she's behaving. She says it feels like the gas won't stop in her engine and her brakes won't work.
When she's hyper she can look me in the eye even if the rest of her can't stay still. If she's reacting she can't and she'll often tell me she can't control herself even though she's trying. She's 7 and starting to recognize the signs in her body when she's reacting to something and will verbalize it. She feels as out of control as she's behaving. She says it feels like the gas won't stop in her engine and her brakes won't work.