Daycare.com Forum
Daycare Center and Family Home Forum>DH says "Ok to Hit Back." WTH?!
Christina72684 07:56 AM 06-04-2014
My DH is never around my preschoolers because he's always working. He has today off and came downstairs to get something to eat. When he came down he heard me telling our 3yr old daughter that we do not hit. (She went to a center where another girl was playing. The girl didn't want her there and barely pushed her. My DD got mad and hit her repeatedly.) My DD started to cry because she got in trouble and my DH yelled at her (not bad, just a little) and told her to go apologize. Another DCG told us that the other girl hit my DD first, which I knew, but my DD shouldn't have hit back. My DH told me he should have never yelled at our DD and she should have hit back. He said when she gets older and is in school he doesn't want bullies to pick on her. I told him that I will not have her turn into a bully and that if she gets hit she should tell the teacher. He said he doesn't want her to be a tattle tale and that bullies will pick on her more for being a wussy. What do you think? Stick up for yourself or tell the teacher?
playground1 08:23 AM 06-04-2014
Words first. When every other option is exhausted, hit them, but make it worth it. Kwim?
snbauser 08:43 AM 06-04-2014
If she did that in school, she would be in as much trouble as the child that hit first.
Unregistered 08:51 AM 06-04-2014
Everyone does things differently and what is right for our family might not be right for others. I taught my son from a toddler on that you never hit first but if someone else hits you then you hit them back harder and make sure it hurts.
I have told him that yes he may get into trouble at school but as long as he didn't start the hitting he won't be in trouble with me. I would rather raise a child that can defend himself than a child that is a sissy and a target for more fights.
I have told him that yes he may get into trouble at school but as long as he didn't start the hitting he won't be in trouble with me. I would rather raise a child that can defend himself than a child that is a sissy and a target for more fights.
Leigh 08:52 AM 06-04-2014
Originally Posted by queen_of_the_playground:
Words first. When every other option is exhausted, hit them, but make it worth it. Kwim?
Words first. When every other option is exhausted, hit them, but make it worth it. Kwim?
I couldn't agree more. When words don't work, the school doesn't do it's part to protect a kid, I'd rather my son hit back, too. I would NEVER tell him that, though!
preschoolteacher 08:58 AM 06-04-2014
Originally Posted by Unregistered:
Everyone does things differently and what is right for our family might not be right for others. I taught my son from a toddler on that you never hit first but if someone else hits you then you hit them back harder and make sure it hurts.
I have told him that yes he may get into trouble at school but as long as he didn't start the hitting he won't be in trouble with me. I would rather raise a child that can defend himself than a child that is a sissy and a target for more fights.
I could not disagree more. Everyone does things differently and what is right for our family might not be right for others. I taught my son from a toddler on that you never hit first but if someone else hits you then you hit them back harder and make sure it hurts.
I have told him that yes he may get into trouble at school but as long as he didn't start the hitting he won't be in trouble with me. I would rather raise a child that can defend himself than a child that is a sissy and a target for more fights.
I would rather my son grow into a sensitive man with the self control to compose himself in difficult decisions and work for non-violent solutions. If that's a "sissy" to you, then so be it.
CtheLove 08:58 AM 06-04-2014
That sounds just like my husband! 
And I totally understand where he's coming from but at this age no way!! We are trying to teach ALL kids not to hit so hopefully when they are ALL older no one will be hitting anybody. ( in the perfect world 
) I have four kids dd10, dd8, ds5, dd3.5. No way will I let my younger two hit back at this age they are doing it out of frustration and lack of understanding how to communicate better. My older two I have told them to hit back and only as a last restore. If they are being bullied verbally then go tell a teacher, but if it gets to a point where the other kid has punched them, hit them in the face or pushed them to the ground, then you hit back and like Queen said make it count. 
Not every kid is taught properly to use there words so when they get older they just hit and hit hard our kids need to know that its ok to defend themselves.
And I totally understand where he's coming from but at this age no way!! We are trying to teach ALL kids not to hit so hopefully when they are ALL older no one will be hitting anybody. ( in the perfect world ) I have four kids dd10, dd8, ds5, dd3.5. No way will I let my younger two hit back at this age they are doing it out of frustration and lack of understanding how to communicate better. My older two I have told them to hit back and only as a last restore. If they are being bullied verbally then go tell a teacher, but if it gets to a point where the other kid has punched them, hit them in the face or pushed them to the ground, then you hit back and like Queen said make it count. Not every kid is taught properly to use there words so when they get older they just hit and hit hard our kids need to know that its ok to defend themselves.
EntropyControlSpecialist 08:59 AM 06-04-2014
Originally Posted by queen_of_the_playground:
Words first. When every other option is exhausted, hit them, but make it worth it. Kwim?
I agree.Words first. When every other option is exhausted, hit them, but make it worth it. Kwim?
CtheLove 09:12 AM 06-04-2014
Originally Posted by preschoolteacher:
I could not disagree more.
I would rather my son grow into a sensitive man with the self control to compose himself in difficult decisions and work for non-violent solutions. If that's a "sissy" to you, then so be it.
I totally agree with you, but I think there comes a point where you might meet someone that you could talk to death to try and figure out a non-violent solution and they will still hit you and you need to know how to defend yourself and that might require hitting them back. I could not disagree more.
I would rather my son grow into a sensitive man with the self control to compose himself in difficult decisions and work for non-violent solutions. If that's a "sissy" to you, then so be it.
When it comes to a certain point in a kids life I think they need to know that its ok to stick up from themselves. I tell my girls never hit first, try talking to the person, try getting a teacher but if the other kids hits them then they have my permission to hit them back, not repeatedly just enough to get the other kid to back off.
spinnymarie 09:32 AM 06-04-2014
As toddlers and preschoolers we never hit OR hit back. Hitting at this age is not out of necessity and in my daycare *I* will be the one to protect kids from bullying, because I can.
There are many moral/social grey areas that I'm aware of as an adult, but I think children need to be first taught right from wrong to be able to later understand these grey areas. As a child we teach them not to use violence but words instead to solve problems. As a teenager, we may be able to teach them the subtle grey areas in this situation, and many others.
As dc providers for this youngest age group, I think it is our responsibility to teach them how to solve problems using words and to control their impulses. I also think it is irresponsible to teach children of this age group - preschool - to hit back.
There are many moral/social grey areas that I'm aware of as an adult, but I think children need to be first taught right from wrong to be able to later understand these grey areas. As a child we teach them not to use violence but words instead to solve problems. As a teenager, we may be able to teach them the subtle grey areas in this situation, and many others.
As dc providers for this youngest age group, I think it is our responsibility to teach them how to solve problems using words and to control their impulses. I also think it is irresponsible to teach children of this age group - preschool - to hit back.
SquirrellyMama 09:42 AM 06-04-2014
I'm not going to allow kids in a daycare setting to hit or hit back. Not with the liability resting on me.
I have told my own kids if they are in a situation where they need to hit back they will be supported by me and my husband. If someone comes up and hits my child, and then walks away I've told to the kids to turn the other cheek and also walk away. If they are being pummeled I have told them to fight back.
Kelly
I have told my own kids if they are in a situation where they need to hit back they will be supported by me and my husband. If someone comes up and hits my child, and then walks away I've told to the kids to turn the other cheek and also walk away. If they are being pummeled I have told them to fight back.
Kelly
craftymissbeth 09:52 AM 06-04-2014
Originally Posted by queen_of_the_playground:
Words first. When every other option is exhausted, hit them, but make it worth it. Kwim?
Words first. When every other option is exhausted, hit them, but make it worth it. Kwim?
While I wouldn't allow hitting period from a toddler or preschooler (because they seem to just not understand the difference between hitting back because it's your only option or hitting back because they're angry) I have told my 7 yo ds that if he's in a situation at school where someone is hurting him and there doesn't seem to be a way out of the situation, then hit 'em back.. hard as you can.
I know people will disagree with me. That's ok. He's actually been hit, pushed, and had big rocks thrown at him on several different occasions and he chooses to walk away. Sometimes he tells the teacher, sometimes he finds something else to do far away from that child. I'm proud of him that he chooses that road, but the choice IS there for my child to protect himself if he needs to with no consequences on my end.
playground1 10:52 AM 06-04-2014
Originally Posted by craftymissbeth:
While I wouldn't allow hitting period from a toddler or preschooler (because they seem to just not understand the difference between hitting back because it's your only option or hitting back because they're angry) I have told my 7 yo ds that if he's in a situation at school where someone is hurting him and there doesn't seem to be a way out of the situation, then hit 'em back.. hard as you can.
I know people will disagree with me. That's ok. He's actually been hit, pushed, and had big rocks thrown at him on several different occasions and he chooses to walk away. Sometimes he tells the teacher, sometimes he finds something else to do far away from that child. I'm proud of him that he chooses that road, but the choice IS there for my child to protect himself if he needs to with no consequences on my end.
I agree about toddlers of course. Still, we have a little bully in our group (who happens to be my bosses kid) and we have tried EVERYthing to get him to stop. His parents seem to think he's just looking for a way to engage with other kids, but I've watched him and we all agree that he will specifically pick out kids he knows he can bully AND look at us just before he does it. So he knows it's wrong.While I wouldn't allow hitting period from a toddler or preschooler (because they seem to just not understand the difference between hitting back because it's your only option or hitting back because they're angry) I have told my 7 yo ds that if he's in a situation at school where someone is hurting him and there doesn't seem to be a way out of the situation, then hit 'em back.. hard as you can.
I know people will disagree with me. That's ok. He's actually been hit, pushed, and had big rocks thrown at him on several different occasions and he chooses to walk away. Sometimes he tells the teacher, sometimes he finds something else to do far away from that child. I'm proud of him that he chooses that road, but the choice IS there for my child to protect himself if he needs to with no consequences on my end.
Anyway, he picks on the little ones a lot and one of them is a little South African girl, almost 2. She'd just had enough of his s*** and he tried to push her and fell down. She slapped the top of his head as hard as she could and, well, little man learned more from that experience than from all the talking-tos and timeouts we'd given him. We did tell her not to hit but some part of me was like...
.
craftymissbeth 11:03 AM 06-04-2014
Oh, yeah, sometimes the best way for them to learn not to do something is a good dose of their own medicine
drseuss 11:47 AM 06-04-2014
I have mixed feelings on this, and I also think it totally depends on the situation. Unfortunately, once the kids are elementary/middle/high school age, the kid who has had enough and finally pops the bully in the nose is usually the one who gets in trouble. 
KiddieCahoots 11:57 AM 06-04-2014
Originally Posted by spinnymarie:
As toddlers and preschoolers we never hit OR hit back. Hitting at this age is not out of necessity and in my daycare *I* will be the one to protect kids from bullying, because I can.
There are many moral/social grey areas that I'm aware of as an adult, but I think children need to be first taught right from wrong to be able to later understand these grey areas. As a child we teach them not to use violence but words instead to solve problems. As a teenager, we may be able to teach them the subtle grey areas in this situation, and many others.
As dc providers for this youngest age group, I think it is our responsibility to teach them how to solve problems using words and to control their impulses. I also think it is irresponsible to teach children of this age group - preschool - to hit back.
As toddlers and preschoolers we never hit OR hit back. Hitting at this age is not out of necessity and in my daycare *I* will be the one to protect kids from bullying, because I can.
There are many moral/social grey areas that I'm aware of as an adult, but I think children need to be first taught right from wrong to be able to later understand these grey areas. As a child we teach them not to use violence but words instead to solve problems. As a teenager, we may be able to teach them the subtle grey areas in this situation, and many others.
As dc providers for this youngest age group, I think it is our responsibility to teach them how to solve problems using words and to control their impulses. I also think it is irresponsible to teach children of this age group - preschool - to hit back.
I agree.Even though my daughter struggled.
My dd, now 28 was a gentle giant. She was a big girl, and still is at 5'8". She was challenged and harassed relentlessly in grade school. I was very active in the PTG then, and with the school. No matter what I did to try and help, talk to parents, teachers, and the principal, it only made the situation worse. Until the day my daughter pushed back....it all stopped. That was in the 5th grade. She did not become a bully, only fended them off.
But this was 25yrs ago.
Times have evolved....
Now with the bully policies that have FINALLY been implemented in the public schools, feel it's better. Both parties are held accountable, and mediation is held to work out situations. This method is more in accordance with the early teachings we can establish with young children to use their words.
SquirrellyMama 12:03 PM 06-04-2014
Here is my story about hitting.
When I was in high school I punched a guy in the stomach. He actually had not hit me, but I'd had plenty of emotional/verbal abuse from him. I went to my next class and told my teacher what I had done. She said, "I imagine he had it coming." I loved her for that, and he never bothered me again.
Maybe if we would let kids pop the bully in the nose we wouldn't have so much of it. Bullies know kids can't do anything without getting in trouble. I think the rules schools have put in place are increasing the problem instead of fixing it.
In my experience bullies don't care for pretty words and sensitivity; they feed off of it.
Kelly
When I was in high school I punched a guy in the stomach. He actually had not hit me, but I'd had plenty of emotional/verbal abuse from him. I went to my next class and told my teacher what I had done. She said, "I imagine he had it coming." I loved her for that, and he never bothered me again.
Maybe if we would let kids pop the bully in the nose we wouldn't have so much of it. Bullies know kids can't do anything without getting in trouble. I think the rules schools have put in place are increasing the problem instead of fixing it.
In my experience bullies don't care for pretty words and sensitivity; they feed off of it.
Kelly
Lucy 12:05 PM 06-04-2014
Really doesn't matter what any of us think, including your husband. Schools have a ZERO tolerance policy on hitting. Even if you're defending yourself, you can't hit or attack in any way. Your child will be suspended with no questions asked.
ETA: I'm not saying I agree with this or don't agree. I'm just stating the way schools are.
ETA: I'm not saying I agree with this or don't agree. I'm just stating the way schools are.
Unregistered 12:12 PM 06-04-2014
Originally Posted by Lucy:
Really doesn't matter what any of us think, including your husband. Schools have a ZERO tolerance policy on hitting. Even if you're defending yourself, you can't hit or attack in any way. Your child will be suspended with no questions asked.
ETA: I'm not saying I agree with this or don't agree. I'm just stating the way schools are.
Really doesn't matter what any of us think, including your husband. Schools have a ZERO tolerance policy on hitting. Even if you're defending yourself, you can't hit or attack in any way. Your child will be suspended with no questions asked.
ETA: I'm not saying I agree with this or don't agree. I'm just stating the way schools are.
I would rather my kid be suspended than not stand up for himself and put the aggressor in their place.
NightOwl 12:23 PM 06-04-2014
I love this thread! Im betting it will get hot in here. Lol.
I teach my children to "defend" themselves, meaning, when you are in iminenent danger of being injured, punch the kid as hard as you can and get out of there. Defending themselves does NOT mean hit back for every little infraction on their personal space.
I believe some parents take it too far in saying "always hit back". Children, especially under 4 or 5 yrs or so, cant really differentiate what's worthy of telling the teacher and what's worthy of punching someone in the face, kwim?
So I advocate total peace at that age and younger. I try to teach kids not to hit at all when they're that young in an effort to produce more peaceful children who can resolve issues with their words as they get older, but they also understand when to use violence when the sh!t hits the fan.
That being said, it has happened many times where the "bully" drastically changes his/her behaviors once they get some of what they've been dishing out.
I teach my children to "defend" themselves, meaning, when you are in iminenent danger of being injured, punch the kid as hard as you can and get out of there. Defending themselves does NOT mean hit back for every little infraction on their personal space.
I believe some parents take it too far in saying "always hit back". Children, especially under 4 or 5 yrs or so, cant really differentiate what's worthy of telling the teacher and what's worthy of punching someone in the face, kwim?
So I advocate total peace at that age and younger. I try to teach kids not to hit at all when they're that young in an effort to produce more peaceful children who can resolve issues with their words as they get older, but they also understand when to use violence when the sh!t hits the fan.
That being said, it has happened many times where the "bully" drastically changes his/her behaviors once they get some of what they've been dishing out.
NightOwl 12:33 PM 06-04-2014
My son defended himself from a literal beating in middle school. He was immediately suspended, along with the bully. I picked him up from school, made a police report, the bully was handcuffed and taken to the detention center, and I took my son out for ice cream.
Suspension does not phase me in the least if my child handled it properly and reacted only to protect himself.
Suspension does not phase me in the least if my child handled it properly and reacted only to protect himself.
preschoolteacher 12:34 PM 06-04-2014
Originally Posted by Lucy:
Really doesn't matter what any of us think, including your husband. Schools have a ZERO tolerance policy on hitting. Even if you're defending yourself, you can't hit or attack in any way. Your child will be suspended with no questions asked.
ETA: I'm not saying I agree with this or don't agree. I'm just stating the way schools are.
Not only will they be suspended, in many cases they will be prosecuted. Really doesn't matter what any of us think, including your husband. Schools have a ZERO tolerance policy on hitting. Even if you're defending yourself, you can't hit or attack in any way. Your child will be suspended with no questions asked.
ETA: I'm not saying I agree with this or don't agree. I'm just stating the way schools are.
I have heard language on this forum before like... "I won't let myself get assaulted again by this child..." or "I won't let him assault others" referring to a toddler who is hitting an adult or another toddler. This was written in all seriousness. If we can talk about children hitting as assault when they are younger than kindergarten age, it most certainly can be talked about it that way when they are bigger, stronger, and able to do real damage.
Zero tolerance policies exist, and children are punished seriously for breaking them.
KiddieCahoots 01:02 PM 06-04-2014
I agree Wednesday, this is a really good topic!
You couldn't pay me to go back and do my Jr. high years over! I was a nerd, and totally subjected to bullies. I was taught never to hit, even to defend myself.
So now as a mom, I believe words first, action last, only to defend.
I feel the schools are on the right track with no tolerance policies though.
We don't just have bullies anymore. We now have some troubled children that pick up loaded weapons to use on classmates.
So encouraging children to hit back can be a slippery slope....kwim?
You couldn't pay me to go back and do my Jr. high years over! I was a nerd, and totally subjected to bullies. I was taught never to hit, even to defend myself.
So now as a mom, I believe words first, action last, only to defend.
I feel the schools are on the right track with no tolerance policies though.
We don't just have bullies anymore. We now have some troubled children that pick up loaded weapons to use on classmates.
So encouraging children to hit back can be a slippery slope....kwim?
playground1 01:03 PM 06-04-2014
Originally Posted by KiddieCahoots:
I agree.
Times have evolved....
Now with the bully policies that have FINALLY been implemented in the public schools, feel it's better. Both parties are held accountable, and mediation is held to work out situations. This method is more in accordance with the early teachings we can establish with young children to use their words.
Why are both parties accountable for one party being bullied? I agree.Times have evolved....
Now with the bully policies that have FINALLY been implemented in the public schools, feel it's better. Both parties are held accountable, and mediation is held to work out situations. This method is more in accordance with the early teachings we can establish with young children to use their words.
Originally Posted by :
Maybe if we would let kids pop the bully in the nose we wouldn't have so much of it. Bullies know kids can't do anything without getting in trouble. I think the rules schools have put in place are increasing the problem instead of fixing it.
In my experience bullies don't care for pretty words and sensitivity; they feed off of it.
Kelly
Exactly.Maybe if we would let kids pop the bully in the nose we wouldn't have so much of it. Bullies know kids can't do anything without getting in trouble. I think the rules schools have put in place are increasing the problem instead of fixing it.
In my experience bullies don't care for pretty words and sensitivity; they feed off of it.
Kelly
KiddieCahoots 01:18 PM 06-04-2014
Originally Posted by queen_of_the_playground:
Why are both parties accountable for one party being bullied?
Because of us teaching our children to stand up to the bully.Why are both parties accountable for one party being bullied?
If it then comes to the point of being physically aggressive on both parties, then both are held accountable.
No tolerance means no tolerance.
playground1 01:22 PM 06-04-2014
Originally Posted by KiddieCahoots:
Because of us teaching our children to stand up to the bully.
If it then comes to the point of being physically aggressive on both parties, then both are held accountable.
No tolerance means no tolerance.
So what do you believe is the correct path of action when you're a student and someone is physically assaulting you?Because of us teaching our children to stand up to the bully.
If it then comes to the point of being physically aggressive on both parties, then both are held accountable.
No tolerance means no tolerance.
NightOwl 01:27 PM 06-04-2014
A quick punch and they run away? Find the nearest adult.
Repeatedly hitting? PUNCH THEM AS HARD AS POSSIBLE, THEN find the nearest adult. Lol
The defender will be suspended also, but the aggressor will think twice before targeting the defender again.
Repeatedly hitting? PUNCH THEM AS HARD AS POSSIBLE, THEN find the nearest adult. Lol
The defender will be suspended also, but the aggressor will think twice before targeting the defender again.
playground1 01:28 PM 06-04-2014
I have to admit, as much respect as I have for Ghandi and MLK, I do think that violence is part of the human condition. If someone were to attempt to hurt myself or, god forbid, my kids, there would be some hell to pay. No apologies.
I say this never having been in fight, FTR.
I say this never having been in fight, FTR.
playground1 01:30 PM 06-04-2014
Originally Posted by Wednesday:
A quick punch and they run away? Find the nearest adult.
Repeatedly hitting? PUNCH THEM AS HARD AS POSSIBLE, THEN find the nearest adult. Lol
The defender will be suspended also, but the aggressor will think twice before targeting the defender again.
I know you're kind of joking, but I would honestly tell my kid to stay and fight it out unless the other kid is huge. I think we need to prepare our kids for the world we live in, not the one we want to live in. Well, actually, we could do both. A quick punch and they run away? Find the nearest adult.
Repeatedly hitting? PUNCH THEM AS HARD AS POSSIBLE, THEN find the nearest adult. Lol
The defender will be suspended also, but the aggressor will think twice before targeting the defender again.
KiddieCahoots 01:30 PM 06-04-2014
Originally Posted by queen_of_the_playground:
So what do you believe is the correct path of action when you're a student and someone is physically assaulting you?
I believe I already answered this question in a previous post.So what do you believe is the correct path of action when you're a student and someone is physically assaulting you?
playground1 01:33 PM 06-04-2014
Originally Posted by KiddieCahoots:
I believe I already answered this question in a previous post.
No, you really didn't. You're kind of contradicting yourself.I believe I already answered this question in a previous post.
Blackcat31 01:36 PM 06-04-2014
Originally Posted by KiddieCahoots:
I agree Wednesday, this is a really good topic!
You couldn't pay me to go back and do my Jr. high years over! I was a nerd, and totally subjected to bullies. I was taught never to hit, even to defend myself.
So now as a mom, I believe words first, action last, only to defend.
I feel the schools are on the right track with no tolerance policies though.
We don't just have bullies anymore. We now have some troubled children that pick up loaded weapons to use on classmates.
So encouraging children to hit back can be a slippery slope....kwim?
Seriously?!?I agree Wednesday, this is a really good topic!
You couldn't pay me to go back and do my Jr. high years over! I was a nerd, and totally subjected to bullies. I was taught never to hit, even to defend myself.
So now as a mom, I believe words first, action last, only to defend.
I feel the schools are on the right track with no tolerance policies though.
We don't just have bullies anymore. We now have some troubled children that pick up loaded weapons to use on classmates.
So encouraging children to hit back can be a slippery slope....kwim?
Your school might be bully free but I have ZERO faith in zero tolerance policies.
It sounds great on paper but is useless and pointless in the real world.
If you don't agree, just ask my DS who endured YEARS of bullying, physical assaults and endless tormenting from the same child while our schools boosted their "perfect" zero tolerance policies
My DS was perfectly capable of handling it on his own and had he been allowed to do so in the very beginning, he would not have had to go through years of therapy and countless hours of stress and worry about simply being able to get an education in peace.
Zero tolerance... phooey!!
Retired 01:39 PM 06-04-2014
Originally Posted by queen_of_the_playground:
I agree about toddlers of course. Still, we have a little bully in our group (who happens to be my bosses kid) and we have tried EVERYthing to get him to stop. His parents seem to think he's just looking for a way to engage with other kids, but I've watched him and we all agree that he will specifically pick out kids he knows he can bully AND look at us just before he does it. So he knows it's wrong.
Anyway, he picks on the little ones a lot and one of them is a little South African girl, almost 2. She'd just had enough of his s*** and he tried to push her and fell down. She slapped the top of his head as hard as she could and, well, little man learned more from that experience than from all the talking-tos and timeouts we'd given him. We did tell her not to hit but some part of me was like....
I'm torn, because I do think most bullies never learn their lesson until something happens to them. Not necessarily getting hitting back but any consequence. With my children and my grandson I always taught fight back, because here if the child doesn't fight back (even if they're randomly hit and don't back) they still get in trouble and get suspended. Mostly this happens, because the violent child's parents complain. When I ran my dc I separated children who did any hitting/pushing or bite the first offense. They got to play alone for the rest of the day and where terminated during pick up. It was easy for me to terminate, because my husband always worked and I never did this out of totally necessity. I know for others it harder.I agree about toddlers of course. Still, we have a little bully in our group (who happens to be my bosses kid) and we have tried EVERYthing to get him to stop. His parents seem to think he's just looking for a way to engage with other kids, but I've watched him and we all agree that he will specifically pick out kids he knows he can bully AND look at us just before he does it. So he knows it's wrong.
Anyway, he picks on the little ones a lot and one of them is a little South African girl, almost 2. She'd just had enough of his s*** and he tried to push her and fell down. She slapped the top of his head as hard as she could and, well, little man learned more from that experience than from all the talking-tos and timeouts we'd given him. We did tell her not to hit but some part of me was like...
.
itlw8 01:46 PM 06-04-2014
standing up to a bully is far different than a little push and hitting back repeatedly
So If someone bumps into you it is okay to haul off and make it count because they touch your first.
If a wife is mad and hits her husband it is ok for him to haul off and make it count ??
boundries have to be taught and children this age do not understand you can hit this time but not that time. Either it is ok or not
So If someone bumps into you it is okay to haul off and make it count because they touch your first.
If a wife is mad and hits her husband it is ok for him to haul off and make it count ??
boundries have to be taught and children this age do not understand you can hit this time but not that time. Either it is ok or not
playground1 01:48 PM 06-04-2014
Originally Posted by itlw8:
standing up to a bully is far different than a little push and hitting back repeatedly
So If someone bumps into you it is okay to haul off and make it count because they touch your first.
If a wife is mad and hits her husband it is ok for him to haul off and make it count ??
boundries have to be taught and children this age do not understand you can hit this time but not that time. Either it is ok or not
Well, I think most of us agree that toddlers and pre-schoolers don't get it yet, so we need to intervene. But for older kids, they can totally grasp the difference.standing up to a bully is far different than a little push and hitting back repeatedly
So If someone bumps into you it is okay to haul off and make it count because they touch your first.
If a wife is mad and hits her husband it is ok for him to haul off and make it count ??
boundries have to be taught and children this age do not understand you can hit this time but not that time. Either it is ok or not
KiddieCahoots 01:49 PM 06-04-2014
Originally Posted by Blackcat31:
Seriously?!?
Your school might be bully free but I have ZERO faith in zero tolerance policies.
It sounds great on paper but is useless and pointless in the real world.
If you don't agree, just ask my DS who endured YEARS of bullying, physical assaults and endless tormenting from the same child while our schools boosted their "perfect" zero tolerance policies
My DS was perfectly capable of handling it on his own and had he been allowed to do so in the very beginning, he would not have had to go through years of therapy and countless hours of stress and worry about simply being able to get an education in peace.
Zero tolerance... phooey!!
My daughter had the same experience. She is now 28. How old is your son? If you don't mind me asking?Seriously?!?
Your school might be bully free but I have ZERO faith in zero tolerance policies.
It sounds great on paper but is useless and pointless in the real world.
If you don't agree, just ask my DS who endured YEARS of bullying, physical assaults and endless tormenting from the same child while our schools boosted their "perfect" zero tolerance policies
My DS was perfectly capable of handling it on his own and had he been allowed to do so in the very beginning, he would not have had to go through years of therapy and countless hours of stress and worry about simply being able to get an education in peace.
Zero tolerance... phooey!!
Blackcat31 02:00 PM 06-04-2014
Originally Posted by KiddieCahoots:
My daughter had the same experience. She is now 28. How old is your son? If you don't mind me asking?
He is 23. My daughter had the same experience. She is now 28. How old is your son? If you don't mind me asking?
I truly and deeply believe he was profoundly affected by his experiences and if I had to do it all over again, I would handle it completely different.
I would NEVER have had the faith in the school's plan to stop it and I would never ever have allowed them to bamboozle me with words like they did.
NO TOLERANCE should mean that but it doesn't.
It got so bad that at one point the school liaison officer actually told my DS to wait for the bully off school grounds and handle it yourself.
Even HE (the liaison officer) was frustrated by his lack of being able to do anything to stop it.
playground1 02:08 PM 06-04-2014
Originally Posted by Blackcat31:
He is 23.
I truly and deeply believe he was profoundly affected by his experiences and if I had to do it all over again, I would handle it completely different.
I would NEVER have had the faith in the school's plan to stop it and I would never ever have allowed them to bamboozle me with words like they did.
NO TOLERANCE should mean that but it doesn't.
It got so bad that at one point the school liaison officer actually told my DS to wait for the bully off school grounds and handle it yourself.
Even HE (the liaison officer) was frustrated by his lack of being able to do anything to stop it.
I don't know how you did it. We have a bullying issue with my 8 year old daughter right now (I think it's gotten settled) but I've seriously never wanted to hit a kid so bad in my life. My daughter gave her an invitation to her birthday and she ripped it up and threw it at her.He is 23.
I truly and deeply believe he was profoundly affected by his experiences and if I had to do it all over again, I would handle it completely different.
I would NEVER have had the faith in the school's plan to stop it and I would never ever have allowed them to bamboozle me with words like they did.
NO TOLERANCE should mean that but it doesn't.
It got so bad that at one point the school liaison officer actually told my DS to wait for the bully off school grounds and handle it yourself.
Even HE (the liaison officer) was frustrated by his lack of being able to do anything to stop it.
daycare 02:11 PM 06-04-2014
I didnt get to read all of the replies but here is my take on hitting.
hitting is never ok, no matter who started it.
If you are hurt, someone is hurting you or someone is hurting others you tell an adult right away, anything else is considered tattling.
No telling an adult is helping to hide the serious issue.
I work very closely with a program called Project Corner Stone where I go into schools and read to kids about bully like behaviors, and how to handle them. They teach children to be up-standers, not by-standers
Perhaps getting the book have you filled a bucket today, would be a good book to get for your child and even the daycare kids. it truly is amazing. Oh and in the program we never call anyone a bully or give them that title, because that is considered name calling. So we call it bully like behavior.........
hitting is never ok, no matter who started it.
If you are hurt, someone is hurting you or someone is hurting others you tell an adult right away, anything else is considered tattling.
No telling an adult is helping to hide the serious issue.
I work very closely with a program called Project Corner Stone where I go into schools and read to kids about bully like behaviors, and how to handle them. They teach children to be up-standers, not by-standers
Perhaps getting the book have you filled a bucket today, would be a good book to get for your child and even the daycare kids. it truly is amazing. Oh and in the program we never call anyone a bully or give them that title, because that is considered name calling. So we call it bully like behavior.........
playground1 02:13 PM 06-04-2014
Originally Posted by daycare:
I work very closely with a program called Project Corner Stone where I go into schools and read to kids about bully like behaviors, and how to handle them.
so...how DO you handle them?I work very closely with a program called Project Corner Stone where I go into schools and read to kids about bully like behaviors, and how to handle them.
daycare 02:15 PM 06-04-2014
Originally Posted by queen_of_the_playground:
so...how DO you handle them?
sorry if that came out wrong....it does not teach me how to handle the children that are displaying bully like behaviors, it teaches the children how to.so...how DO you handle them?
It teaches them to stand up and use their words, walk away, tell an adult, don't just standby and let anyone get hurt. No matter what they look like, no matter how old they are, be an up-stander and tell an adult.
playground1 02:19 PM 06-04-2014
Originally Posted by daycare:
sorry if that came out wrong....it does not teach me how to handle the children that are displaying bully like behaviors, it teaches the children how to.
It teaches them to stand up and use their words, walk away, tell an adult, don't just standby and let anyone get hurt. No matter what they look like, no matter how old they are, be an up-stander and tell an adult.
I understood what you meant. I get the prevention and education aspect, but I feel like telling kids to tell an adult every time might not be the right answer. Bullying is a huge problem in the workplace and there's really no authority to tell about it. sorry if that came out wrong....it does not teach me how to handle the children that are displaying bully like behaviors, it teaches the children how to.
It teaches them to stand up and use their words, walk away, tell an adult, don't just standby and let anyone get hurt. No matter what they look like, no matter how old they are, be an up-stander and tell an adult.
What I feel is missing from these programs is advice for the kids being bullied. What do they do when they're actually in the thick of it, kwim?
daycare 02:22 PM 06-04-2014
Originally Posted by queen_of_the_playground:
I understood what you meant. I get the prevention and education aspect, but I feel like telling kids to tell an adult every time might not be the right answer. Bullying is a huge problem in the workplace and there's really no authority to tell about it.
What I feel is missing from these programs is advice for the kids being bullied. What do they do when they're actually in the thick of it, kwim?
oh the program does offer up a ton of advise of how our kids can handle it. If you have some time look it up. It truly is an amazing program,I understood what you meant. I get the prevention and education aspect, but I feel like telling kids to tell an adult every time might not be the right answer. Bullying is a huge problem in the workplace and there's really no authority to tell about it.
What I feel is missing from these programs is advice for the kids being bullied. What do they do when they're actually in the thick of it, kwim?
it is through the YMCA, called project Corner Stone.
http://www.projectcornerstone.org/
playground1 02:23 PM 06-04-2014
Originally Posted by daycare:
oh the program does offer up a ton of advise of how our kids can handle it. If you have some time look it up. It truly is an amazing program,
it is through the YMCA, called project Corner Stone.
http://www.projectcornerstone.org/
I did, I just read the website. I still have the concerns I expressed. It's all "tell an adult".oh the program does offer up a ton of advise of how our kids can handle it. If you have some time look it up. It truly is an amazing program,
it is through the YMCA, called project Corner Stone.
http://www.projectcornerstone.org/
KiddieCahoots 02:25 PM 06-04-2014
Originally Posted by Blackcat31:
He is 23.
I truly and deeply believe he was profoundly affected by his experiences and if I had to do it all over again, I would handle it completely different.
I would NEVER have had the faith in the school's plan to stop it and I would never ever have allowed them to bamboozle me with words like they did.
NO TOLERANCE should mean that but it doesn't.
It got so bad that at one point the school liaison officer actually told my DS to wait for the bully off school grounds and handle it yourself.
Even HE (the liaison officer) was frustrated by his lack of being able to do anything to stop it.
The schools were not dealing with bullies back then, like they are now though.He is 23.
I truly and deeply believe he was profoundly affected by his experiences and if I had to do it all over again, I would handle it completely different.
I would NEVER have had the faith in the school's plan to stop it and I would never ever have allowed them to bamboozle me with words like they did.
NO TOLERANCE should mean that but it doesn't.
It got so bad that at one point the school liaison officer actually told my DS to wait for the bully off school grounds and handle it yourself.
Even HE (the liaison officer) was frustrated by his lack of being able to do anything to stop it.
My 28yr daughter's bully, who bullied other children as well, received the citizen of the year award from the classroom teacher.
Why? Because he took a break for one week? I mean really?!
I, and other parents were told by the principal, there was nothing that could be done to stop the child from receiving the award. That the teacher had seen some reason for the award to go to this child.
So I feel and understand your pain thoroughly.
This year my 14yr was confronted by a bully. This bully gets into trouble on a regular basis, and physically threatened my daughter. Because I raise my children to defend themselves, my daughter threatened her back, but in text form. Mediation was instantly held, and only my daughter was put into detention, because of the proof she left behind.
Because of this, I agree with you to a point. My 14yr daughter's bully learned the ropes, and found the loop hole, but this happened in the course of 1 week. My 28yr daughter was bullied for 3yrs.
Bullies will always be here, and so will the victims. The schools are at least trying with the zero tolerance policy NOW by stopping the course of direction, before it gets out of control.
I'm thankful for this because of how violent the world we live in continues to get.
katzan 02:41 PM 06-04-2014
I'm so torn on this to be honest.
I have my oldest daughter who was hit and bullied at school. She told the teacher, and nothing happened. It took me going to the principal and threatening to go to the school board if something wasn't done. I got to the point that I told her if she gets hit again, to hit back.
Then, you have a recent situation where DCB hit my DS and my DS hit back. I caught the whole thing. DCB went in time out and my child got in time out too for hitting AND not coming to me first.
Maybe it's the fact that I knew that I would personally do something about the hitting and take care of it and try to prevent it from happening again, whereas, the school did nothing of the sort.
I have my oldest daughter who was hit and bullied at school. She told the teacher, and nothing happened. It took me going to the principal and threatening to go to the school board if something wasn't done. I got to the point that I told her if she gets hit again, to hit back.
Then, you have a recent situation where DCB hit my DS and my DS hit back. I caught the whole thing. DCB went in time out and my child got in time out too for hitting AND not coming to me first.
Maybe it's the fact that I knew that I would personally do something about the hitting and take care of it and try to prevent it from happening again, whereas, the school did nothing of the sort.
Blackcat31 03:18 PM 06-04-2014
Originally Posted by KiddieCahoots:
The schools were not dealing with bullies back then, like they are now though.
My 28yr daughter's bully, who bullied other children as well, received the citizen of the year award from the classroom teacher.
Why? Because he took a break for one week? I mean really?!
I, and other parents were told by the principal, there was nothing that could be done to stop the child from receiving the award. That the teacher had seen some reason for the award to go to this child.
So I feel and understand your pain thoroughly.
This year my 14yr was confronted by a bully. This bully gets into trouble on a regular basis, and physically threatened my daughter. Because I raise my children to defend themselves, my daughter threatened her back, but in text form. Mediation was instantly held, and only my daughter was put into detention, because of the proof she left behind.
Because of this, I agree with you to a point. My 14yr daughter's bully learned the ropes, and found the loop hole, but this happened in the course of 1 week. My 28yr daughter was bullied for 3yrs.
Bullies will always be here, and so will the victims. The schools are at least trying with the zero tolerance policy NOW by stopping the course of direction, before it gets out of control.
I'm thankful for this because of how violent the world we live in continues to get.
My DS's school had a NO tolerance policy the entire time...it isn't anything new. The schools were not dealing with bullies back then, like they are now though.
My 28yr daughter's bully, who bullied other children as well, received the citizen of the year award from the classroom teacher.
Why? Because he took a break for one week? I mean really?!
I, and other parents were told by the principal, there was nothing that could be done to stop the child from receiving the award. That the teacher had seen some reason for the award to go to this child.
So I feel and understand your pain thoroughly.
This year my 14yr was confronted by a bully. This bully gets into trouble on a regular basis, and physically threatened my daughter. Because I raise my children to defend themselves, my daughter threatened her back, but in text form. Mediation was instantly held, and only my daughter was put into detention, because of the proof she left behind.
Because of this, I agree with you to a point. My 14yr daughter's bully learned the ropes, and found the loop hole, but this happened in the course of 1 week. My 28yr daughter was bullied for 3yrs.
Bullies will always be here, and so will the victims. The schools are at least trying with the zero tolerance policy NOW by stopping the course of direction, before it gets out of control.
I'm thankful for this because of how violent the world we live in continues to get.
My DS was bullied the ENTIRE school years from Kindy to high school when he quit.
Bullies WILL always be here but their ability to inflict pain and suffering on others has gotten longer and more drawn out.
Telling an adult about a bully's actions and sticking up for other children is what made my son a target. He learned VERY quickly that telling another adult on made things worse.
I'm sorry if your experience differs but I have ZERO faith in the practices and policies public schools have in place for this. They do NOT work.
My son's bully is currently serving 5-9 in the state penitentiary so guess he finally got what was coming to him.
Like I said if I had a chance to have a "do-over" my child would NEVER have set foot on a public school grounds. I also have first hand knowledge that the problem still exists and is being managed and handled the exact.same.way as it was for my son.
I currently have many teacher clients that can school me on all the wrongs of "no tolerance" and what that really means for everyone involved.
Shameful.
SquirrellyMama 03:28 PM 06-04-2014
Originally Posted by Blackcat31:
My DS's school had a NO tolerance policy the entire time...it isn't anything new.
My DS was bullied the ENTIRE school years from Kindy to high school when he quit.
Bullies WILL always be here but their ability to inflict pain and suffering on others has gotten longer and more drawn out.
Telling an adult about a bully's actions and sticking up for other children is what made my son a target. He learned VERY quickly that telling another adult on made things worse.
I'm sorry if your experience differs but I have ZERO faith in the practices and policies public schools have in place for this. They do NOT work.
My son's bully is currently serving 5-9 in the state penitentiary so guess he finally got what was coming to him.
Like I said if I had a chance to have a "do-over" my child would NEVER have set foot on a public school grounds. I also have first hand knowledge that the problem still exists and is being managed and handled the exact.same.way as it was for my son.
I currently have many teacher clients that can school me on all the wrongs of "no tolerance" and what that really means for everyone involved.
Shameful.
Amen! My DS's school had a NO tolerance policy the entire time...it isn't anything new.
My DS was bullied the ENTIRE school years from Kindy to high school when he quit.
Bullies WILL always be here but their ability to inflict pain and suffering on others has gotten longer and more drawn out.
Telling an adult about a bully's actions and sticking up for other children is what made my son a target. He learned VERY quickly that telling another adult on made things worse.
I'm sorry if your experience differs but I have ZERO faith in the practices and policies public schools have in place for this. They do NOT work.
My son's bully is currently serving 5-9 in the state penitentiary so guess he finally got what was coming to him.
Like I said if I had a chance to have a "do-over" my child would NEVER have set foot on a public school grounds. I also have first hand knowledge that the problem still exists and is being managed and handled the exact.same.way as it was for my son.
I currently have many teacher clients that can school me on all the wrongs of "no tolerance" and what that really means for everyone involved.
Shameful.
KiddieCahoots 03:53 PM 06-04-2014
Originally Posted by Blackcat31:
My DS's school had a NO tolerance policy the entire time...it isn't anything new.
My DS was bullied the ENTIRE school years from Kindy to high school when he quit.
Bullies WILL always be here but their ability to inflict pain and suffering on others has gotten longer and more drawn out.
Telling an adult about a bully's actions and sticking up for other children is what made my son a target. He learned VERY quickly that telling another adult on made things worse.
I'm sorry if your experience differs but I have ZERO faith in the practices and policies public schools have in place for this. They do NOT work.
My son's bully is currently serving 5-9 in the state penitentiary so guess he finally got what was coming to him.
Like I said if I had a chance to have a "do-over" my child would NEVER have set foot on a public school grounds. I also have first hand knowledge that the problem still exists and is being managed and handled the exact.same.way as it was for my son.
I currently have many teacher clients that can school me on all the wrongs of "no tolerance" and what that really means for everyone involved.
Shameful.
That is shameful. And I'm sorry for the experience you and your son have endured Blackcat. It is clear why you have zero faith.My DS's school had a NO tolerance policy the entire time...it isn't anything new.
My DS was bullied the ENTIRE school years from Kindy to high school when he quit.
Bullies WILL always be here but their ability to inflict pain and suffering on others has gotten longer and more drawn out.
Telling an adult about a bully's actions and sticking up for other children is what made my son a target. He learned VERY quickly that telling another adult on made things worse.
I'm sorry if your experience differs but I have ZERO faith in the practices and policies public schools have in place for this. They do NOT work.
My son's bully is currently serving 5-9 in the state penitentiary so guess he finally got what was coming to him.
Like I said if I had a chance to have a "do-over" my child would NEVER have set foot on a public school grounds. I also have first hand knowledge that the problem still exists and is being managed and handled the exact.same.way as it was for my son.
I currently have many teacher clients that can school me on all the wrongs of "no tolerance" and what that really means for everyone involved.
Shameful.
It sounds like some areas are more advanced in this policy than others. My area has advanced, and I've personally seen the difference in the past 20yrs. It's still very sad to hear where it has and still fails.
My little one, my son is 5yrs. He is the smallest of my children and the smallest in his class. I'm fearful to have him engage in any physical battle. If I did encourage him to hit back, would I be sealing his future to a beating, or worse? If the policy is working here, even a little bit, I'm thankful.
Annalee 04:24 PM 06-04-2014
Originally Posted by Blackcat31:
My DS's school had a NO tolerance policy the entire time...it isn't anything new.
My DS was bullied the ENTIRE school years from Kindy to high school when he quit.
Bullies WILL always be here but their ability to inflict pain and suffering on others has gotten longer and more drawn out.
Telling an adult about a bully's actions and sticking up for other children is what made my son a target. He learned VERY quickly that telling another adult on made things worse.
I'm sorry if your experience differs but I have ZERO faith in the practices and policies public schools have in place for this. They do NOT work.
My son's bully is currently serving 5-9 in the state penitentiary so guess he finally got what was coming to him.
Like I said if I had a chance to have a "do-over" my child would NEVER have set foot on a public school grounds. I also have first hand knowledge that the problem still exists and is being managed and handled the exact.same.way as it was for my son.
I currently have many teacher clients that can school me on all the wrongs of "no tolerance" and what that really means for everyone involved.
Shameful.
The problem I have with "zero tolerance" is that only pertains to certain people. My kids are only 10 and 12 but there are kids in schools whom are troublesome but because they haven't physically hurt anybody, they are allowed to continue bullying others....emotional abuse can be just as bad as being physically abused. Bullying is NOT limited to persons who are from troublesome homes. It can be from athletes that think they are beyond the "law" so to speak.. This happens now to my oldest and he will enter junior high in the fall. Kids are belittled when they attempt to make athletic teams in the school system that have become so "political".....This harms self-esteem of students, but KILLS the inner person if the athletic team is allowed to ridicule persons that did not make the team. Maybe I am on another contingent here, but bullying is happening now on a broad scale. BC is right, zero tolerance? My DS's school had a NO tolerance policy the entire time...it isn't anything new.
My DS was bullied the ENTIRE school years from Kindy to high school when he quit.
Bullies WILL always be here but their ability to inflict pain and suffering on others has gotten longer and more drawn out.
Telling an adult about a bully's actions and sticking up for other children is what made my son a target. He learned VERY quickly that telling another adult on made things worse.
I'm sorry if your experience differs but I have ZERO faith in the practices and policies public schools have in place for this. They do NOT work.
My son's bully is currently serving 5-9 in the state penitentiary so guess he finally got what was coming to him.
Like I said if I had a chance to have a "do-over" my child would NEVER have set foot on a public school grounds. I also have first hand knowledge that the problem still exists and is being managed and handled the exact.same.way as it was for my son.
I currently have many teacher clients that can school me on all the wrongs of "no tolerance" and what that really means for everyone involved.
Shameful.
KiddieCahoots 05:43 PM 06-04-2014
Originally Posted by Annalee:
The problem I have with "zero tolerance" is that only pertains to certain people. My kids are only 10 and 12 but there are kids in schools whom are troublesome but because they haven't physically hurt anybody, they are allowed to continue bullying others....emotional abuse can be just as bad as being physically abused. Bullying is NOT limited to persons who are from troublesome homes. It can be from athletes that think they are beyond the "law" so to speak.. This happens now to my oldest and he will enter junior high in the fall. Kids are belittled when they attempt to make athletic teams in the school system that have become so "political".....This harms self-esteem of students, but KILLS the inner person if the athletic team is allowed to ridicule persons that did not make the team. Maybe I am on another contingent here, but bullying is happening now on a broad scale. BC is right, zero tolerance?
Your right! Bullying is happening on a broad scale. Always has been.... just more public knowledge now. Zero tolerance has holes, it's obvious. Maybe the schools are picking their battles upon the more obvious, to try and make a speck of difference in this huge problem.The problem I have with "zero tolerance" is that only pertains to certain people. My kids are only 10 and 12 but there are kids in schools whom are troublesome but because they haven't physically hurt anybody, they are allowed to continue bullying others....emotional abuse can be just as bad as being physically abused. Bullying is NOT limited to persons who are from troublesome homes. It can be from athletes that think they are beyond the "law" so to speak.. This happens now to my oldest and he will enter junior high in the fall. Kids are belittled when they attempt to make athletic teams in the school system that have become so "political".....This harms self-esteem of students, but KILLS the inner person if the athletic team is allowed to ridicule persons that did not make the team. Maybe I am on another contingent here, but bullying is happening now on a broad scale. BC is right, zero tolerance?
http://www.pqmonthly.com/school-as-j...bullying/11242
Kelly 06:09 PM 06-04-2014
I'm not a big believer that hitting a bully back will make them stop bullying. From things I saw when I was an elementary school teacher, the bully is even likely to escalate their behavior. What if they get angry at being hit back and get some buddies to gang up on your child? Or they bring a knife or gun to school the next day? I was lucky that this was never an issue for my kids since they were in self-contained special ed classes and well-supervised.
I don't think there really is an easy answer. But getting to the root of what causes a child to become a bully should be a big part of it, not just finding ways to punish them.
I don't think there really is an easy answer. But getting to the root of what causes a child to become a bully should be a big part of it, not just finding ways to punish them.
NeedaVaca 06:20 PM 06-04-2014
Originally Posted by Kelly:
I'm not a big believer that hitting a bully back will make them stop bullying. From things I saw when I was an elementary school teacher, the bully is even likely to escalate their behavior. What if they get angry at being hit back and get some buddies to gang up on your child? Or they bring a knife or gun to school the next day? I was lucky that this was never an issue for my kids since they were in self-contained special ed classes and well-supervised.
I don't think there really is an easy answer. But getting to the root of what causes a child to become a bully should be a big part of it, not just finding ways to punish them.
The sad thing is it's not usually the bully bringing the knife or gun to school, it's the kid being bullied that's had enough and snaps...I'm not a big believer that hitting a bully back will make them stop bullying. From things I saw when I was an elementary school teacher, the bully is even likely to escalate their behavior. What if they get angry at being hit back and get some buddies to gang up on your child? Or they bring a knife or gun to school the next day? I was lucky that this was never an issue for my kids since they were in self-contained special ed classes and well-supervised.
I don't think there really is an easy answer. But getting to the root of what causes a child to become a bully should be a big part of it, not just finding ways to punish them.
Annalee 06:40 PM 06-04-2014
Originally Posted by NeedaVaca:
The sad thing is it's not usually the bully bringing the knife or gun to school, it's the kid being bullied that's had enough and snaps...
This happens wayyyy toooo often!!!!!! But NO ONE pays any attention till something drastic like this happens! AND EVERYONE THEN WISHES THEY HAD DONE SOMETHING TO PREVENT THE TRAGEDY THAT HAPPENS!!!!The sad thing is it's not usually the bully bringing the knife or gun to school, it's the kid being bullied that's had enough and snaps...
NightOwl 07:03 PM 06-04-2014
Originally Posted by NeedaVaca:
The sad thing is it's not usually the bully bringing the knife or gun to school, it's the kid being bullied that's had enough and snaps...
You are soooo right on this. We had a child in a middle school here who took a gun to school and shot his bully dead, in the back of his head, in the hallway in front of everyone else. Then his parents tried to sneak him out of the country, because he was the victim of bullying, and that was the reason he "snapped". The father is currently behind bars for attempting to remove him from the country. I'll look for the link.....The sad thing is it's not usually the bully bringing the knife or gun to school, it's the kid being bullied that's had enough and snaps...
Unregistered 07:14 PM 06-04-2014
Because your child is too young to discern when it's "ok" to hit back in defense, the children she's dealing with are also very young and small, and she's at a sensitive age to learn self control and peaceful resolution, I would say to teach her to move away and ask for help. Its also helpful to teach hercto read body language, listen to her peers desires, and for her to develop language to describe physical aggression from another child accurately. Often times, a child will say someone hit them when really they put out their hand to stop their encroachment.
Once children are in school, they are often developed enough to explain to them under what circumstances they should physically extend themselves.
I would tell your husband that I understand and want her to defend herself from bullies. But right now, we are dealing with preschoolers; children who are learning how to interact. Now is the time to learn peaceful resolution and constraint. It won't make her a whimp later; it will make her better able to make proper judgements and respond accordingly.
Once children are in school, they are often developed enough to explain to them under what circumstances they should physically extend themselves.
I would tell your husband that I understand and want her to defend herself from bullies. But right now, we are dealing with preschoolers; children who are learning how to interact. Now is the time to learn peaceful resolution and constraint. It won't make her a whimp later; it will make her better able to make proper judgements and respond accordingly.
Blackcat31 05:30 AM 06-05-2014
Originally Posted by NeedaVaca:
The sad thing is it's not usually the bully bringing the knife or gun to school, it's the kid being bullied that's had enough and snaps...
BINGO... that is almost always the case. The sad thing is it's not usually the bully bringing the knife or gun to school, it's the kid being bullied that's had enough and snaps...
The bullied child is left feeling as though there are no other options.
My school district is known for one of the first and oldest cases of a school shooting. (1976) A student who was bullied endlessly with NO action taken by anyone against his tormentor.
The student shot his tormentor and the teacher he had "told" (multiple times).
Unregistered 05:57 AM 06-05-2014
I am waiting for the first case of a parent hiring a hit man to take out a bully. Eventually it will happen its only a matter of time.
Blackcat31 06:00 AM 06-05-2014
Originally Posted by Unregistered:
I am waiting for the first case of a parent hiring a hit man to take out a bully. Eventually it will happen its only a matter of time.
This father filed an order for protection against his child's bully. I am waiting for the first case of a parent hiring a hit man to take out a bully. Eventually it will happen its only a matter of time.
http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/n...order/9080017/
We DID try to do that when my son was young but were told that we couldn't due to several laws regarding minors and their right to attend public school.
....because the bully's right to attend public school and terrorize other students took precedence over my child's right to attend public school SAFELY.
SquirrellyMama 06:07 AM 06-05-2014
Originally Posted by Unregistered:
I am waiting for the first case of a parent hiring a hit man to take out a bully. Eventually it will happen its only a matter of time.
It has happened where a parent has taken matters in their own hands and hit the child suspected of bullying. Unfortunately, the cases I've heard about is when the parent targeted the wrong child.I am waiting for the first case of a parent hiring a hit man to take out a bully. Eventually it will happen its only a matter of time.
Kelly
Karena 08:03 AM 06-05-2014
First off, we aren't throwing our children into a room/playground for the day with no intervention or protection. You don't need to worry about your child becoming a "Sissy" because you aren't telling (or not telling, but allowing) him/her to hit back. It is good to teach your child to get adult intervention. It is not tattling when your child is directly involved, it is maturity on your child's part to go and get a teacher, provider, parent, older sibling... to help with a situation. There are many ways we communicate maturity and independence to our children. Rest assured, they will develop into capable, independent and mature young adults by our example in many areas. Over the years they will learn the how and when to take care of situations on their own. We all know there are instances when we must defend ourselves. In the early years we do teach our children to do this through adult intervention and words. We follow through as parents and providers to make sure our children are safe and treated fairly. It's pretty common sense. Too bad it's lacking much of the time.
Chellieleanne 08:43 AM 06-05-2014
This is my experience and my two cents.
My ft dcb was very violent and would hit or kick or bite if he didn't get his way, if he was mad, or basically when ever he felt like. We got the biting curbed pretty fast but the rest of it has taken a long time. It is a lot less now than it was when I first started watching him however he still targets my own 3yo DS. My DS finally had enough and started hitting back on his own, where before he would just cry and run to me. I told DCM about it with the first incident and she honestly was supportive in the hopes dcb learns to not hit anymore. Yes i supervise and try to prevent it on both ends when possible but I have to say since my son started standing up for himself, dcb has been using his words a heck of a lot more and it is really rare he hits or kicks first. When they do, they both say sorry to each other after they hit and I hardly have to interfere as they are learning to work it out on their own. There are still times I need to but can't argue when they resolve their issues on their own. Now if they start beating up on each other in a full out fight I will intervene but that has only happened once and both kids went in time out to calm down and I didn't let them play together for a while.
So all in all I think it depends on the child and situation. For my situation it has helped immensely but my dcb will be 3 next month so he understands there is a consequence when he hits my DS. If my situation turned out different and it didn't phase dcb when DS defended himself, then I would have just kept up with time outs and separation.
My ft dcb was very violent and would hit or kick or bite if he didn't get his way, if he was mad, or basically when ever he felt like. We got the biting curbed pretty fast but the rest of it has taken a long time. It is a lot less now than it was when I first started watching him however he still targets my own 3yo DS. My DS finally had enough and started hitting back on his own, where before he would just cry and run to me. I told DCM about it with the first incident and she honestly was supportive in the hopes dcb learns to not hit anymore. Yes i supervise and try to prevent it on both ends when possible but I have to say since my son started standing up for himself, dcb has been using his words a heck of a lot more and it is really rare he hits or kicks first. When they do, they both say sorry to each other after they hit and I hardly have to interfere as they are learning to work it out on their own. There are still times I need to but can't argue when they resolve their issues on their own. Now if they start beating up on each other in a full out fight I will intervene but that has only happened once and both kids went in time out to calm down and I didn't let them play together for a while.
So all in all I think it depends on the child and situation. For my situation it has helped immensely but my dcb will be 3 next month so he understands there is a consequence when he hits my DS. If my situation turned out different and it didn't phase dcb when DS defended himself, then I would have just kept up with time outs and separation.
Leanna 11:30 AM 06-05-2014
Yes, we should teach infants, toddlers, and preschoolers never to hit. They should learn not to hit to get something they want, to solve problems, or for revenge, etc. If every child only learned that at a young age, we wouldn't have a problem!
After that, it gets sticky for me. I was bullied RELENTLESSLY through elementary, middle, and high school. I was teased, harassed, threatened, and humiliated daily and physically threatened and harmed often. NO ONE DID ANYTHING. Other students either egged it on, participated, or watched. Staff ignored it. If I had "tattled" I would have angered the bullies even more. I never stuck up for myself because words meant nothing to these bullies and I didn't have the bravery to physically fight back. I fantasized daily about someone stopping the bullies and teaching them a lesson. Never happened.
Our school had a Zero Tolerance policy - fat lot of good that did. Also, it has been shown that peer mediation DOES NOT WORK. It favors the bully. Like they need more in their favor. Also, at my school (and I am sure others) there are a lot of teachers who favor the "popular" kids and will not stick up for the weird, shy, unpopular, and/or different kids.
I also heard about a study recently that concluded something that I could have told everyone from age 12. People are always saying that bullies pick on others because they themselves feel bad about themselves. THIS IS NOT TRUE. Bullies actually have high self-esteem. They know what they are doing and who they are targeting.
So while I am a TOTAL wimp, sissy, peace-loving, introvert, I say (to older kids) if they can SOCK EM'!
After that, it gets sticky for me. I was bullied RELENTLESSLY through elementary, middle, and high school. I was teased, harassed, threatened, and humiliated daily and physically threatened and harmed often. NO ONE DID ANYTHING. Other students either egged it on, participated, or watched. Staff ignored it. If I had "tattled" I would have angered the bullies even more. I never stuck up for myself because words meant nothing to these bullies and I didn't have the bravery to physically fight back. I fantasized daily about someone stopping the bullies and teaching them a lesson. Never happened.
Our school had a Zero Tolerance policy - fat lot of good that did. Also, it has been shown that peer mediation DOES NOT WORK. It favors the bully. Like they need more in their favor. Also, at my school (and I am sure others) there are a lot of teachers who favor the "popular" kids and will not stick up for the weird, shy, unpopular, and/or different kids.
I also heard about a study recently that concluded something that I could have told everyone from age 12. People are always saying that bullies pick on others because they themselves feel bad about themselves. THIS IS NOT TRUE. Bullies actually have high self-esteem. They know what they are doing and who they are targeting.
So while I am a TOTAL wimp, sissy, peace-loving, introvert, I say (to older kids) if they can SOCK EM'!
Blackcat31 11:53 AM 06-05-2014
Originally Posted by Leanna:
Yes, we should teach infants, toddlers, and preschoolers never to hit. They should learn not to hit to get something they want, to solve problems, or for revenge, etc. If every child only learned that at a young age, we wouldn't have a problem!
I think if every PERSON simply learned self-responsibility we would NOT have bullying issues at all. Yes, we should teach infants, toddlers, and preschoolers never to hit. They should learn not to hit to get something they want, to solve problems, or for revenge, etc. If every child only learned that at a young age, we wouldn't have a problem!
The most common reaction I experienced of parents of the bully was "Not MY child!"