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Daycare Center and Family Home Forum>Think I Made Someone Mad Today. How Would You Have Handled This?
JLH 08:14 PM 02-12-2014
Mom brings her kid with no coat in the snow. We play outside. Kid freezes. Kid comes sick the next day with a cold. A few days later sister gets it. Now I have 4 yr old and 2 yr old both with thick green snot everywhere and they are both smearing it with their fingers and wiping it all over my house. I watch 4 year old wipe his nose on my couch. I watch 2 year old touch her snot with her finger, smear it around her nose, and smear it on my chair as I'm taking her temp. 2 year old is extra fussy. I ask her if she wants to lay down and she says yes. I lay her down and she instantly falls asleep and sleep over 5 hours today in middle of playroom. I text mom to give a head's up that kids are not feeling well and I'll let her know if they get worse and she needs to pick them up, slipping in the fact that little one got it from brother who came sick the day after no coat in the snow. Mom comes to pick up and says that they look fine. I tell her that little one was extra fussy and slept all day, they both have green snot that they were wiping all over the furniture and toys, and we have more medically fragile children than hers that a simple cold like this could make very sick (new toddler very prone to croup and a child with illness induced asthma). Also, that these kids just got done being sick and many parents had to miss days of work so we are trying to prevent these kids from getting sick again. Mom says they are too little to know about germs. I agreed but reply to mom that almost all of our older kids (3-5 year olds) know how to cough into their elbow and wipe their noses rather than wiping snot on the furniture and toys but we will continue to work on teaching her kids. I tell mom they can return tomorrow if they are feeling better but we will have a full house of kids tomorrow so little one can't be sleeping all day. We both say that hopefully little one slept it off today and will feel better tomorrow and mom leaves but I can tell she is irritated.
I feel proud of myself for saying my piece and standing my ground but I always worry about parents pulling when I make them mad. It leaves me with a feeling, like I'm in trouble for something, for days after I have a conversation with a parent like this.
So.... I'm trying to get a little more backbone without chasing people off because up until recently I've been a pushover and I'm sick of my family being sick all the time. Do you think I went wrong anywhere? How would you have handled this? I really felt like I was trying to do the right thing by trying to stop the spread of illness for our medically fragile kids but now with the worry of losing income it makes me wonder if I even should have said anything to the mom. What would you have done?
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TwinKristi 11:53 PM 02-12-2014
I had this same exact situation! Literally SAME! Mom would bring DCB sick all the time with green snotty nose, couldn't wipe, put everything in his mouth, coughed in faces, cried and whined all day, slept more, constant low-grade fever (99.5 to 100.4, my contract says 100.5!) ... Mom always had some excuse! My son and another DCB would get sick. My DS ran a fever of 105 one night from a virus he gave him. Mom never took his temp so never knew how hot he got but I measured over 103 when I sent him home. I got to the point that I asked for a drs note to return, sent him home sick, etc and mom got pissy one day. I felt that same way, "ohhhh did I make a mistake? Should I have just toughed it out?" But then I would read in here or my DS would get sick and I'd be mad again. She told me in Sept that he would be moving to Jr Preschool (7:15-4:15 4 days a week) in Jan. She left right before Christmas & New Year to avoid paying me the holidays offs. It was insulting. It was so hurtful. I knew she did it when she was mad about me making her pick him up but they wouldn't take him until he was 2. They squeaked him in at 1y11mos against regs.
Anyway, I would have made if work, they paid well, they were like friends, I was hoping he'd finally get better, they'd been with me so long, etc. But now that they're gone it like !! They still come on a drop-in basis and I had them today actually. It solidified my happiness. At first I was kinda sad and missed them. Then by the end of the day I was like "buh-bye!" I also had an infant (another Drama mama) who was having tubes put in and couldn't get sick or they'd cancel the surgery and he had like 8 ear infections in a year and would probably have another prolonging the surgery. I think DCM was mad that I was worried about the "new baby" instead of her son when it was the fact that he shouldn't be there sick in the first place but she denies it so she can work. She never took him home, she'd just take him back to work. With pink eye, vomiting, fever... Poor baby! That was another reason I often kept him sick so he could be here, sleep and have a low-key day. I even took him to the dr because he was so sick and I knew she wouldn't. And if she leaves because you said that than so be it. It sucks and you'd have TWO spots to fill but it's better than the alternative.
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llpa 03:26 AM 02-13-2014
If you have an illness policy you need to enforce it. It IS so easy to let yourself get into the position of feeling like you did something wrong! However, it isn't fair to the children that come feeling well and are exposed to obviously sick kids.
Honestly, I would have sent them home for thick green snot and not being able to participate in the day. Even tho we need to be sensitive to clients' needs, WE run a business and they frequent it. You're the boss applesauce
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daycarediva 03:43 AM 02-13-2014
Sorry, but they are NOT too young to know about germs. I did an entire unit on germs in early September. We read "Germs are not for sharing" DAILY still. ALL of the kids (just 2-almost 5) cough in elbows, wash hands and cover their mouths when they sneeze.

Sleeping all day=unable to participate here and I would have sent them home if she fell asleep during a non nap time.
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CraftyMom 06:03 AM 02-13-2014
You did good! My 2 year olds cough in their elbow, not every single time, but for the most part.

I have gotten so much better at enforcing my illness policy after many times of allowing exceptions so parents don't get mad. Your home and family come first! I stress that in my policy, these children go home with their germs but my family lives here! We are confined to the germs the others spread in our home.

Paint a picture in the parent's mind "dcb wipes his green snot on my couch, pillow, chair, blanket, etc. My own child comes in and cuddles up on the couch. My child is now getting cozy in your child's snots!" Or this "dcg wipes snots on her hand then picks up a toy and puts it back down. Another dck then picks up the toy and puts it in her mouth as children do, now she has your child's snots in her mouth"

Runny noses are common this time of year, but green indicates illness and being contagious.

The only thing I disagree with is despite the fact that the child wasn't wearing a coat and obviously should be, he wouldn't have been sick the very next day as a result. Illness such as the cold you describe is spread through direct contact with the virus germs. The germs fester in the body for about 10 days before symptoms are shown. What I mean is he was already getting sick, just didn't show it yet, and would have been sick even if he wore a coat that day. Being cold can weaken the body's resistance to fight illness, but not likely just going from the car to the house.

But that's beside the point, mom should have a coat on her kids! And the kids should home cozy in their beds being comforted by their parents when they are sick!
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nannyde 06:09 AM 02-13-2014
If the children don't have proper outdoor gear you have to stay in. It was the Moms decision to BRING them with no coat but it's on you that the kid was taken out in cold weather without a coat.

This is something that would get you in a WHOLE lot of trouble here. It could land you with DHS and child protective at your door.

Parents can't give you permission to do the wrong thing. Once you accepted the kid in the house without proper winter gear you know that your group can not go outside.

Sorry not what you want to hear but I hope it helps you next time. I ended up purchasing a ton of winter gear in all sizes because I got sick of dealing with parents bringing them in complicated, ill fitting, and inappropriate weather gear. It takes a lot of real estate but it solved my problem.
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Naptime yet? 06:11 AM 02-13-2014
I think you were right in sending the sick kids home, but did you let the kid play in the snow with no coat?

Sorry, I think I was posting the same time as Nanny.
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cheerfuldom 06:14 AM 02-13-2014
the only thing I would recommend is to leave the medically fragile children out of the scenario because by mentioning them, it seems you are favoring their needs over the other families needs. It would be best to just say "this is our illness policy, the kids have to go home because they are clearly ill and I dont provide sick care" and leave it at that. I think you over explained things by talking about other kids, germs and sanitary issues......those are all legitimate concerns, for you. This parent doesnt need to know all your reasons and by overexplaining, it seems like you are trying to validate your reasons, which you don't need to do. just send them home and thats that. Insist these kids have weather appropriate clothing and let mom know that you will turn them away at the door if she comes without it again. A coat is mandatory. end of story.
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CraftyMom 06:16 AM 02-13-2014
Somehow I missed the part about playing outside with no coat
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Cat Herder 06:18 AM 02-13-2014
Originally Posted by JLH:
1. Mom brings her kid with no coat in the snow.

How would you have handled this?

2. I really felt like I was trying to do the right thing by trying to stop the spread of illness for our medically fragile kids but now with the worry of losing income it makes me wonder if I even should have said anything to the mom.

What would you have done?
1. Originally, I would have sent Mom, with kid, home for the coat. Appropriate clothing was a condition of attendance.

Now, I have spares of everything because I got tired of the drama involved in enforcing this policy (I can't stand waiting for them to come back and having the kid miss out on breakfast/circle time. It throws off the day for the whole group. ). Since I was no longer enforcing this policy I removed it from my contract.


2. If the drama of enforcing a policy makes you fear losing clients then you will need a plan B so you no longer NEED to enforce the policy.


***As far as telling Mom that kid got the cold virus from being outside, I'd probably have left the entire topic alone. It is no longer widely held that cold temperatures can cause viruses. It is also frowned upon to "play the blame game" with illnesses in childcare because it can come back to bite you later...

http://www.niaid.nih.gov/topics/comm...ges/cause.aspx

Ugh, I did not see posts 5-9. Raises fist to windstream.
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Evansmom 06:19 AM 02-13-2014
I agree with nannyde about you being in the wrong taking DCK out with no coat in the snow. I know it stinks to be trapped inside with a bunch of crazy cabin fever kids. So if your policy is they need appropriate winter gear and DCK shows up without it, you have to turn them away at the door to go back home and get some.

Also if a child is sick and unable to participate, send them home. Period. This is at your discretion, you make the rules, it's your business so you have to enforce the rules. If your policy is that temps have to be 100.5 to be sent home but the child had 99.5 and is falling asleep in the middle of play time it's ok to use your best judgement and send child home.
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Unregistered 06:20 AM 02-13-2014
If they do not come prepared or are unable to participate in the day, then they need to go home. Lack of supplies needed for day, then they can not attend. Not well enough to participate in day, then they can not attend. Keep it simple and repeat as often as necessary.
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JLH 06:37 AM 02-13-2014
Nanne De, Actually, I was following our rules. Our licensing rules state that all kids must go out EVERY day, unless the weather poses a threat such as high winds or temps below 0. It's up to the parents to bring a coat but we HAVE to go out. Technically, yes I could call CPS here because it's a CPS offense to bring kids without proper, weather appropriate clothing. The sad part is that the family is well off and just didn't buy coats because they "couldn't find any cute enough". Ugh!
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CraftyMom 06:48 AM 02-13-2014
Originally Posted by JLH:
Nanne De, Actually, I was following our rules. Our licensing rules state that all kids must go out EVERY day, unless the weather poses a threat such as high winds or temps below 0. It's up to the parents to bring a coat but we HAVE to go out. Technically, yes I could call CPS here because it's a CPS offense to bring kids without proper, weather appropriate clothing. The sad part is that the family is well off and just didn't buy coats because they "couldn't find any cute enough". Ugh!
So he doesn't even have a coat? This isn't the first time?
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Naptime yet? 07:25 AM 02-13-2014
Maybe you should go to the thrift store & buy the ugliest brightest pink coat you can find & show DCM at pick up that this is what her son wears when you go outside. Apologize that it's not cute enough, but at least he will be warm when he rolls around in the snow.
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Blackcat31 08:02 AM 02-13-2014
If children do not arrive with the proper clothing, I do not accept them into care.

If I don't notice they are missing something until later, I call the parent at work and tell them they need to come pick up their child immediately or bring the proper supplies.

I don't lend, borrow or purchase clothing for other people's children.

I know it makes life easier for some providers but I have NO issues following through on my "come prepared or you can't stay" policy.

I have very rarely had a repeat incident with the same child/parent.
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crazydaycarelady 08:04 AM 02-13-2014
I have a box full of clothes, coats, lots of socks and even shoes that I have picked up at garage sales just for this purpose. I get this stuff for super cheap. I had a little girl come with snow pants but no coat yesterday and we had 2 feet of snow. No biggie - I put a sweatshirt and light coat on over that and she was good to go.
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llpa 08:11 AM 02-13-2014
Holy moly! If dck has no coat, does he go out every time w no coat I agree w BC no coat no stay. If you choose to accept him then I feel the ball is in your court to clothe him properly for outdoor play. I was assuming that is what you did. (Put dc clothes on him)
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nannyde 09:02 AM 02-13-2014
Originally Posted by ;434285:
Nanne De, Actually, I was following our rules. Our licensing rules state that all kids must go out EVERY day, unless the weather poses a threat such as high winds or temps below 0. It's up to the parents to bring a coat but we HAVE to go out. Technically, yes I could call CPS here because it's a CPS offense to bring kids without proper, weather appropriate clothing. The sad part is that the family is well off and just didn't buy coats because they "couldn't find any cute enough". Ugh!
The go out rule would never protect you.

One reg doesn't supercede a basic care expectation. You had the option to refuse the child at the door.

Once she was left in your care you were obligated to do the right thing.
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JLH 09:16 AM 02-13-2014
His mom brings him in sweaters, cardigans, or sweatshirts almost every day. I didn't notice no coat at drop off because she won't leave items in their cubby. She brings everything back and forth in a diaper bag every day, including any jackets or warm clothes when they have them. They do not transition well at all and there's usually crying involved so I didn't see no coat until they were gone. Sometimes she brings puffy vests for them. Silly me for assuming that because the news reported that we were expecting record breaking lows she would have actually brought her kids with winter coats. I can't keep them inside because it is a violation of licensing. What I will do from now on is put her kids in borrowed coats. I may take pics of them in the coats too and put them on our website so she can see that if she won't ensure her kids are warm, I will, even if they are wearing ugly coats. I really don't know what else to do. I'm not trying to do wrong but at the same time this mom challenges me on several of my rules (immunizations, no outside food or toys, me not giving parents free vacation time) and in the year and a half they've been here I think she kept one of them home once for being sick. Every other time they are sick they still come to daycare. Mom doesn't want to miss work for her kids but it's no problem if there's a trip to take, a wedding to go to, or she needs a day off for a random interview for a better job. I just don't understand this mentality. She certainly didn't complain last week when I sent a child home with diarrhea so her kids wouldn't catch it, or the week before that when I wouldn't allow a child with croup to return without a doctor's note because I didn't want her kids to catch it. Now that everyone is back healthy, her kids come in wiping snot everywhere, with temps of 99.5, and sleeping all day long. Sometimes I just feel like I can't win with these parents. Don't worry though, her kids came in this morning and she spent 15 minutes telling me how her kids were not sick. Meanwhile, my hubby is my assistant and woke up so sick with their cold this morning that I told him to basically take the day off. An hour later her kids had snot down to their lips and I was watching them wiping it on our table where we all eat. Of course I sanitized it but we have 11 kids here. What to do, what to do???....
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JLH 09:26 AM 02-13-2014
Originally Posted by nannyde:
The go out rule would never protect you.

One reg doesn't supercede a basic care expectation. You had the option to refuse the child at the door.

Once she was left in your care you were obligated to do the right thing.
I find this viewpoint very interesting. I truly never thought of it this way. I worked in a lot of different centers before opening my home daycare and kids always went out, with or without a coat. I guess I just assumed that I was following policy. I never saw sending him out in the snow with only a sweater as me being in the wrong. I just assumed that mom was wrong for not bringing a coat but I still had to take him out because I was obligated to do so. Maybe I should talk to my licensor to find out what to do next time this happens. I can only imagine how mad mom will be when she gets a call from me telling her that she needs to bring a coat or her son can't stay!!!
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Heidi 10:33 AM 02-13-2014
Originally Posted by Cat Herder:
1. Originally, I would have sent Mom, with kid, home for the coat. Appropriate clothing was a condition of attendance.

Now, I have spares of everything because I got tired of the drama involved in enforcing this policy (I can't stand waiting for them to come back and having the kid miss out on breakfast/circle time. It throws off the day for the whole group. ). Since I was no longer enforcing this policy I removed it from my contract.


2. If the drama of enforcing a policy makes you fear losing clients then you will need a plan B so you no longer NEED to enforce the policy.


***As far as telling Mom that kid got the cold virus from being outside, I'd probably have left the entire topic alone. It is no longer widely held that cold temperatures can cause viruses. It is also frowned upon to "play the blame game" with illnesses in childcare because it can come back to bite you later...

http://www.niaid.nih.gov/topics/comm...ges/cause.aspx

Ugh, I did not see posts 5-9. Raises fist to windstream.

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Heidi 10:38 AM 02-13-2014
Originally Posted by nannyde:
If the children don't have proper outdoor gear you have to stay in. It was the Moms decision to BRING them with no coat but it's on you that the kid was taken out in cold weather without a coat.

This is something that would get you in a WHOLE lot of trouble here. It could land you with DHS and child protective at your door.

Parents can't give you permission to do the wrong thing. Once you accepted the kid in the house without proper winter gear you know that your group can not go outside.

Sorry not what you want to hear but I hope it helps you next time. I ended up purchasing a ton of winter gear in all sizes because I got sick of dealing with parents bringing them in complicated, ill fitting, and inappropriate weather gear. It takes a lot of real estate but it solved my problem.
We actually have it in our regs about having to go outside, and in the "commentary" section, it suggests that a provider keep extra clothes on hand. Basically, they are saying there is no excuse NOT to go out, other than it truly being too cold (which is different depending on the age of the children in question, per the chart we were provided).
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CraftyMom 10:38 AM 02-13-2014
Originally Posted by JLH:
His mom brings him in sweaters, cardigans, or sweatshirts almost every day. I didn't notice no coat at drop off because she won't leave items in their cubby. She brings everything back and forth in a diaper bag every day, including any jackets or warm clothes when they have them. They do not transition well at all and there's usually crying involved so I didn't see no coat until they were gone. Sometimes she brings puffy vests for them. Silly me for assuming that because the news reported that we were expecting record breaking lows she would have actually brought her kids with winter coats. I can't keep them inside because it is a violation of licensing. What I will do from now on is put her kids in borrowed coats. I may take pics of them in the coats too and put them on our website so she can see that if she won't ensure her kids are warm, I will, even if they are wearing ugly coats. I really don't know what else to do. I'm not trying to do wrong but at the same time this mom challenges me on several of my rules (immunizations, no outside food or toys, me not giving parents free vacation time) and in the year and a half they've been here I think she kept one of them home once for being sick. Every other time they are sick they still come to daycare. Mom doesn't want to miss work for her kids but it's no problem if there's a trip to take, a wedding to go to, or she needs a day off for a random interview for a better job. I just don't understand this mentality. She certainly didn't complain last week when I sent a child home with diarrhea so her kids wouldn't catch it, or the week before that when I wouldn't allow a child with croup to return without a doctor's note because I didn't want her kids to catch it. Now that everyone is back healthy, her kids come in wiping snot everywhere, with temps of 99.5, and sleeping all day long. Sometimes I just feel like I can't win with these parents. Don't worry though, her kids came in this morning and she spent 15 minutes telling me how her kids were not sick. Meanwhile, my hubby is my assistant and woke up so sick with their cold this morning that I told him to basically take the day off. An hour later her kids had snot down to their lips and I was watching them wiping it on our table where we all eat. Of course I sanitized it but we have 11 kids here. What to do, what to do???....
Call mom now and send them home. One sick dck is bad enough this is twice the germs infecting your daycare
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Luna 11:02 AM 02-13-2014
Originally Posted by CraftyMom:
Call mom now and send them home. One sick dck is bad enough this is twice the germs infecting your daycare
I agree. After all that, there is no question what to do.
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My3cents 11:04 AM 02-13-2014
Originally Posted by JLH:
Mom brings her kid with no coat in the snow. We play outside. Kid freezes. Kid comes sick the next day with a cold. A few days later sister gets it. Now I have 4 yr old and 2 yr old both with thick green snot everywhere and they are both smearing it with their fingers and wiping it all over my house. I watch 4 year old wipe his nose on my couch. I watch 2 year old touch her snot with her finger, smear it around her nose, and smear it on my chair as I'm taking her temp. 2 year old is extra fussy. I ask her if she wants to lay down and she says yes. I lay her down and she instantly falls asleep and sleep over 5 hours today in middle of playroom. I text mom to give a head's up that kids are not feeling well and I'll let her know if they get worse and she needs to pick them up, slipping in the fact that little one got it from brother who came sick the day after no coat in the snow. Mom comes to pick up and says that they look fine. I tell her that little one was extra fussy and slept all day, they both have green snot that they were wiping all over the furniture and toys, and we have more medically fragile children than hers that a simple cold like this could make very sick (new toddler very prone to croup and a child with illness induced asthma). Also, that these kids just got done being sick and many parents had to miss days of work so we are trying to prevent these kids from getting sick again. Mom says they are too little to know about germs. I agreed but reply to mom that almost all of our older kids (3-5 year olds) know how to cough into their elbow and wipe their noses rather than wiping snot on the furniture and toys but we will continue to work on teaching her kids. I tell mom they can return tomorrow if they are feeling better but we will have a full house of kids tomorrow so little one can't be sleeping all day. We both say that hopefully little one slept it off today and will feel better tomorrow and mom leaves but I can tell she is irritated.
I feel proud of myself for saying my piece and standing my ground but I always worry about parents pulling when I make them mad. It leaves me with a feeling, like I'm in trouble for something, for days after I have a conversation with a parent like this.
So.... I'm trying to get a little more backbone without chasing people off because up until recently I've been a pushover and I'm sick of my family being sick all the time. Do you think I went wrong anywhere? How would you have handled this? I really felt like I was trying to do the right thing by trying to stop the spread of illness for our medically fragile kids but now with the worry of losing income it makes me wonder if I even should have said anything to the mom. What would you have done?
have not read beyond the bolded above yet- I will. but here is my take on this..

Why would you take a child out with no coat??? Call the parents and make them bring the child a coat or take the child home with them. Now on to read the rest
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My3cents 11:14 AM 02-13-2014
Originally Posted by nannyde:
If the children don't have proper outdoor gear you have to stay in. It was the Moms decision to BRING them with no coat but it's on you that the kid was taken out in cold weather without a coat.

This is something that would get you in a WHOLE lot of trouble here. It could land you with DHS and child protective at your door.

Parents can't give you permission to do the wrong thing. Once you accepted the kid in the house without proper winter gear you know that your group can not go outside.

Sorry not what you want to hear but I hope it helps you next time. I ended up purchasing a ton of winter gear in all sizes because I got sick of dealing with parents bringing them in complicated, ill fitting, and inappropriate weather gear. It takes a lot of real estate but it solved my problem.
I questioned myself for a minute, brief minute.......and I also agree that a cold would not just present itself the next day. Green is usually infection somewhere.

Thanks Nan, thought I was loosing my mind as being the only one to see the obvious issue here-
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My3cents 11:15 AM 02-13-2014
Originally Posted by cheerfuldom:
the only thing I would recommend is to leave the medically fragile children out of the scenario because by mentioning them, it seems you are favoring their needs over the other families needs. It would be best to just say "this is our illness policy, the kids have to go home because they are clearly ill and I dont provide sick care" and leave it at that. I think you over explained things by talking about other kids, germs and sanitary issues......those are all legitimate concerns, for you. This parent doesnt need to know all your reasons and by overexplaining, it seems like you are trying to validate your reasons, which you don't need to do. just send them home and thats that. Insist these kids have weather appropriate clothing and let mom know that you will turn them away at the door if she comes without it again. A coat is mandatory. end of story.

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My3cents 11:19 AM 02-13-2014
Originally Posted by JLH:
Nanne De, Actually, I was following our rules. Our licensing rules state that all kids must go out EVERY day, unless the weather poses a threat such as high winds or temps below 0. It's up to the parents to bring a coat but we HAVE to go out. Technically, yes I could call CPS here because it's a CPS offense to bring kids without proper, weather appropriate clothing. The sad part is that the family is well off and just didn't buy coats because they "couldn't find any cute enough". Ugh!
lets use some common sense here please-

Should have called parents to pick up sick kid, and bring a coat or no stay.

You took a kid outside with snow with no coat?
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My3cents 11:21 AM 02-13-2014
Originally Posted by Naptime yet?:
Maybe you should go to the thrift store & buy the ugliest brightest pink coat you can find & show DCM at pick up that this is what her son wears when you go outside. Apologize that it's not cute enough, but at least he will be warm when he rolls around in the snow.
in humor yes I get you-...... but why would you want to do that to the child? I am afraid this provider might take you up on this
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My3cents 11:23 AM 02-13-2014
Originally Posted by Blackcat31:
If children do not arrive with the proper clothing, I do not accept them into care.

If I don't notice they are missing something until later, I call the parent at work and tell them they need to come pick up their child immediately or bring the proper supplies.

I don't lend, borrow or purchase clothing for other people's children.

I know it makes life easier for some providers but I have NO issues following through on my "come prepared or you can't stay" policy.

I have very rarely had a repeat incident with the same child/parent.

I have extra clothing because sometimes the extras get dirty- we play, we play a lot, and I love messy play I don't have extras for a non complying parent. I don't tolerate that. I am not asking for much with this request.
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My3cents 11:31 AM 02-13-2014
Originally Posted by JLH:
I find this viewpoint very interesting. I truly never thought of it this way. I worked in a lot of different centers before opening my home daycare and kids always went out, with or without a coat. I guess I just assumed that I was following policy. I never saw sending him out in the snow with only a sweater as me being in the wrong. I just assumed that mom was wrong for not bringing a coat but I still had to take him out because I was obligated to do so. Maybe I should talk to my licensor to find out what to do next time this happens. I can only imagine how mad mom will be when she gets a call from me telling her that she needs to bring a coat or her son can't stay!!!
Who is the boss of your daycare? You or the Mom

You need rules, handbook, policy book, contract and backbone.
Having a parent mad at me is the last thing I am going to worry about. Your job is to care for the child and children in your home.

Your probably a lovely person but your lacking big time common sense with running a daycare. I say this in kindness to you.
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Luna 11:37 AM 02-13-2014
Originally Posted by My3cents:
in humor yes I get you-...... but why would you want to do that to the child? I am afraid this provider might take you up on this
My spare winter coat for my dcks is pink with a big gold crown embroidered on the back and ruffles all around the hood, wrists and waist. My little boys have worn it often and they couldn't care less. They wear pink mittens and hats. They just want to be able to play outside and be comfortable. No one has ever protested the colour. One is a 5 year old and he has never complained about wearing a pink coat.
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Babyluver21 11:42 AM 02-13-2014
While the child should not have gone out w/o a coat in the snow, it is not what made the child sick. Despite a popular belief, you cannot get sick from getting wet, being chilly, being hot, being outside without a coat,. (Though you CAN get hypothermia (too cold) or hyperthermia (overheating) if not dressed properly and that can be pretty darn dangerous) Germs cause illness, i.e.: bacteria, viruses, fungi, parasites, amoebas; those sorts of things. Knowing this, the child PROBABLY was already getting ill (incubation w/o symptoms is very common in colds or URI) and considering the child was ill the NEXT day, the cold was incubating most likely, for at least 7 days, maybe more, and the parent would not have known the few days prior. However, GREEN signifies 'still contagious' in most situations, especially when accompanied by fever. Thus, that would have been reason enough to send the child home. You'll want to sterilize your house and exclude any children in their contagious period until they are fever-free. Colds can last a couple weeks (sometimes more) but if there is no fever, it's usually OK to keep the children in care. See your state's policy on illness if you need more info so that you can pass along to parents. It makes your life easier if you have it to hand out around each September.
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e.j. 12:45 PM 02-13-2014
Originally Posted by JLH:
Sometimes I just feel like I can't win with these parents.
There's a whole lot of truth in this statement. There are parents who just aren't going to be happy no matter what you do so... enforce your policies and concentrate on making you happy instead. I know it's not easy; I struggle with having to enforce my policies all the time but you will be miserable if you allow parents to walk up one side of you and down the other.

I get that your regulations say you have to go outside everyday; mine do too, although they also add "weather permitting". Unfortunately, exceptions beyond the regulations need to be made at times. Record breaking lows and a kid who doesn't have a coat to keep him warm in those temperatures would be one of those times. Imagine if dcb got frost bite from being outside without the proper attire. Your licensor wouldn't be patting you on the back saying, "Oh, no problem. The regs say you had to bring him outside no matter what." You can be sure you'd be held accountable, not the parent, because he was in your care.

I know you thought you were doing the right thing by following your state's regulation on outdoor play. If an exception can't be made, you really have no choice but to speak with the parent and tell her her child needs a winter coat and you will have to exclude him from care until either she buys him one or the weather warms up.
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JLH 02:26 PM 02-13-2014
Originally Posted by nannyde:
The go out rule would never protect you.

One reg doesn't supercede a basic care expectation. You had the option to refuse the child at the door.

Once she was left in your care you were obligated to do the right thing.
Originally Posted by My3cents:
Who is the boss of your daycare? You or the Mom

You need rules, handbook, policy book, contract and backbone.
Having a parent mad at me is the last thing I am going to worry about. Your job is to care for the child and children in your home.

Your probably a lovely person but your lacking big time common sense with running a daycare. I say this in kindness to you.
I have common sense; my 3 kids have coats, hats, and gloves that they wear when we go outside in the cold. I have a contract and an 11 page long Parent Handbook that HAS to be signed as part of the enrollment process. The Parent Handbook clearly states that children must come dressed appropriately for the weather and outdoor play, and the parents of all 10 of the other kids enrolled don't seem to have a problem following this. I even have added into my monthly newsletters from time to time how children need to be dressed appropriately for outdoor play, and "we recommend rain boots, winter jackets, hats, and gloves" this time of year. This parent fights me on so many policies. It's hard to put my foot down and lose $800 a month of my family's income (especially when we are very low income with 3 kids, this is our only income, and we don't even have a working car because we can't afford to get it fixed) but I think the backlash I've received on here makes it pretty clear to me what I need to do. Probably best to let this family go before my licensor sees how many policies they try to break and blames it on me for not putting my foot down; as they argue/give excuses/break my policies on immunizations, bringing coats, bringing shoes, not bringing in toys that are choking hazards for the wee ones, not bringing outside food, not bringing sick kids, not bringing in siblings when one kid is home sick, not allowing kids to play in the front yard because it's unsafe, bringing homemade foods instead of store bought for birthdays, etc, etc, etc. When I start thinking about it, it really does all add up and adds a lot of unnecessary stress to my life... I feel bad for the kids, but at the same time I do have a business to run.
Please, let's also keep in mind that there wasn't 4 feet of snow on the ground and the child wasn't in a t-shirt. He was in a hooded sweater that the mom brought for him because she thought it was sufficient, and it had just begun snowing and it wasn't even cold enough yet for it to stick. The real cold temps didn't begin until the next day. Once I saw he looked too cold and wasn't playing we brought him in. Also, I did tell mom at pick up, once again, that he needs to bring a coat EVERY DAY.
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CraftyMom 02:43 PM 02-13-2014
Originally Posted by JLH:
I have common sense; my 3 kids have coats, hats, and gloves that they wear when we go outside in the cold. I have a contract and an 11 page long Parent Handbook that HAS to be signed as part of the enrollment process. The Parent Handbook clearly states that children must come dressed appropriately for the weather and outdoor play, and the parents of all 10 of the other kids enrolled don't seem to have a problem following this. I even have added into my monthly newsletters from time to time how children need to be dressed appropriately for outdoor play, and "we recommend rain boots, winter jackets, hats, and gloves" this time of year. This parent fights me on so many policies. It's hard to put my foot down and lose $800 a month of my family's income (especially when we are very low income with 3 kids, this is our only income, and we don't even have a working car because we can't afford to get it fixed) but I think the backlash I've received on here makes it pretty clear to me what I need to do. Probably best to let this family go before my licensor sees how many policies they try to break and blames it on me for not putting my foot down; as they argue/give excuses/break my policies on immunizations, bringing coats, bringing shoes, not bringing in toys that are choking hazards for the wee ones, not bringing outside food, not bringing sick kids, not bringing in siblings when one kid is home sick, not allowing kids to play in the front yard because it's unsafe, bringing homemade foods instead of store bought for birthdays, etc, etc, etc. When I start thinking about it, it really does all add up and adds a lot of unnecessary stress to my life...
I too have one parent that fights me on EVERY policy. She does not win though, but in the past I have let parents win by making exceptions and learned the hard way and through this forum that I cannot allow parents to win, it isn't worth the stress. ALL my other families abide by the policies no problem, but this one, for some reason thinks she has a say in my policies, NOPE! She tries, but I stand my ground. It's one of the hardest parts of this job, aside from dealing with parents in general, a non compliant parent just makes it worse. I now have zero tolerance for non compliance. This came over the last year, after living and learning and realizing that if a parent gets upset and wants to go somewhere else then so be it, my day will be less stressful and I'll find a new child with parents that comply.
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nannyde 05:27 PM 02-13-2014
Originally Posted by JLH:
I have common sense; my 3 kids have coats, hats, and gloves that they wear when we go outside in the cold. I have a contract and an 11 page long Parent Handbook that HAS to be signed as part of the enrollment process. The Parent Handbook clearly states that children must come dressed appropriately for the weather and outdoor play, and the parents of all 10 of the other kids enrolled don't seem to have a problem following this. I even have added into my monthly newsletters from time to time how children need to be dressed appropriately for outdoor play, and "we recommend rain boots, winter jackets, hats, and gloves" this time of year. This parent fights me on so many policies. It's hard to put my foot down and lose $800 a month of my family's income (especially when we are very low income with 3 kids, this is our only income, and we don't even have a working car because we can't afford to get it fixed) but I think the backlash I've received on here makes it pretty clear to me what I need to do. Probably best to let this family go before my licensor sees how many policies they try to break and blames it on me for not putting my foot down; as they argue/give excuses/break my policies on immunizations, bringing coats, bringing shoes, not bringing in toys that are choking hazards for the wee ones, not bringing outside food, not bringing sick kids, not bringing in siblings when one kid is home sick, not allowing kids to play in the front yard because it's unsafe, bringing homemade foods instead of store bought for birthdays, etc, etc, etc. When I start thinking about it, it really does all add up and adds a lot of unnecessary stress to my life... I feel bad for the kids, but at the same time I do have a business to run.
Please, let's also keep in mind that there wasn't 4 feet of snow on the ground and the child wasn't in a t-shirt. He was in a hooded sweater that the mom brought for him because she thought it was sufficient, and it had just begun snowing and it wasn't even cold enough yet for it to stick. The real cold temps didn't begin until the next day. Once I saw he looked too cold and wasn't playing we brought him in. Also, I did tell mom at pick up, once again, that he needs to bring a coat EVERY DAY.
Jlh I'm here for you not against you. I am trying to teach you a way to think to protect you. I'm not here to scold you or hurt you. The idea that parents can't give you permission to do the wrong thing and the concept that once the child is on your soil that you are mandated to do the right thing takes TIME and experience to learn and apply.

Please take my words as a consideration not harm.

Tori
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craftymissbeth 05:41 PM 02-13-2014
I don't think you necessarily need to let the family go. But you DO need to stand up for yourself, your policies, and this CHILD. I say this in the most living, respectful way possible... you are completely wrong. Yes, your regs say that all children must go outside daily... but common sense says that you don't take a child outside without a coat, gloves, hat, etc. when it is cold outside. If this child gets hypothermia or frost bite I guarantee you that you will be held responsible.

I say if you're considering terming anyway then there's absolutely no harm in putting your foot down and using your backbone. Your child either has all of the outerwear he needs or he stays home. They'll either do as you ask or leave... which won't be a big deal because you're considering terming anyway. I see this as an awesome opportunity to sharpen your backbone skills.

***that was all said in a loving sweet way***
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TwinKristi 05:47 PM 02-13-2014
What about asking that they leave a jacket at your daycare? I know there's other issues but if this is ongoing maybe that could help. I hate to see anyone being held hostage by a family who's not following the rules. Rather then just jumping to term, why not have a little sit down meeting and give them a list of the issues you're having on a regular basis (not every little nit-picky thing but the big ones) and they're on a 60 day probation or something? I don't know! Good luck! I really do understand the feeling. I lost 2/3 of my income in Oct-Dec and literally it was by the grace of God (and dh...) that we got through. But the money we used from my income was no longer there and we had extra expenses on top of it. It's hard!
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Cradle2crayons 12:05 AM 02-14-2014
Although I sometimes do have extra supplies in case something gets torn or dirty, I don't provide clothing for parents that can afford it themselves.

If a parent can afford but won't purchase shoes, jacket etc, I have been know to go buy what the child needs and invoicing the parent.

I cover my butt in my policies by stating if I have to purchase amenities for a child that he parents are refusing to provide, I will buy and the parents will reimburse me.

I've rarely had to do that, but I will if I have to.

I agree with nan here and he others. Rules are great but you can't use the a s an excuse to out a. Hold ind anger. End of story. In the end, the well being and safety if the child is top priority.

And really, to be honest, it's not the parents fault they are breaking policies if the Provider allows them to do it.

If you aren't going to hold parents accountable then why even have policies to begin with ?
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My3cents 10:42 AM 02-18-2014
Originally Posted by Luna:
My spare winter coat for my dcks is pink with a big gold crown embroidered on the back and ruffles all around the hood, wrists and waist. My little boys have worn it often and they couldn't care less. They wear pink mittens and hats. They just want to be able to play outside and be comfortable. No one has ever protested the colour. One is a 5 year old and he has never complained about wearing a pink coat.
I have never had anyone protest the colors either- I use what I have for spare clothing- I don't do it to embarrass a child or parent. It is just what I have on hand. The parents do bring clothes in fast when they go home in spare clothing.
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Tags:appropriate clothing, colds, enforcing policies - consistency, provider responsibility, safety issues, training courses, virus, viruses
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