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Daycare Center and Family Home Forum>Potty Training---Child Refuses Potty
Babybear911 12:05 PM 04-24-2013
So bit of a pickle. I have 3 kids potty training at daycare. No biggy for me...but new situation I have never had to deal with before. The parent who is adamant that their child potty train...but child is freaked out, scared, or just not ready?

Scenario---- One child is excited, loves practicing (sitting on potty just because they think they have to go) to second child who only occassionally (once a day) uses potty to the third child who refuses to use potty.

The "Refusal" child Pee's and poops in underwear all day long and when I ask if they can use potty before we go outside, field trips, park ect..****ns other direction and flips out (cries and screams at me) if you bring potty to them?? Parents insist potty training is to proceed even though I've mentioned child shows NO interest! Child now just uses underwear like a diaper!

This has been going on for over a month. Should I just keep child peeing and pooping in underwear (I'm feeling it to be a lot of work for clean up for me ---even with me not washing the child's clothes but bagging them) The entire process of potty training should be for the "child" to have interest and take the lead where the caregivers/parents just gently remind them to use potty?

In the 6+ years I've run daycare I have never seen anything like this before. Parents usually support my suggestion of not pushing potty training and or appreciate I'm trying to care for 4 other children and use pull ups! (much easier clean up then poop and pee going all over trying to take clothes off! (I know...I left quite a visual for everyone! Lol. But seriously! Im feeling a bit frustrated! What would you daycare providers do???

Blah! Suggestions please!
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AmyKidsCo 12:12 PM 04-24-2013
My policies state that potty training must begin at home and that children can come in underwear after they've been accident-free at home for a week. I would tell the parents that the child isn't ready to potty train yet and that if they continue to push they could turn it into a power-struggle and cause it to take longer. In nice words, of course.
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cheerfuldom 12:14 PM 04-24-2013
I don't allow children to wear undies only until they are accident free here at daycare for two solid weeks. That means they use pullups or cloth trainers/plastic pants in the meantime. There is no way in hell that I would clean up constant accidents for a month!!!

*notice "accident free at daycare" policy. I don't trust parents to be honest about accidents at home. I have been doing daycare for 6 years as well and find the vast majority of parents to misrepresent the truth or straight out lie when it comes to potty training. I tell them when undies are okay in my home, not the other way around!
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Evansmom 12:15 PM 04-24-2013
Oh boy I feel for ya! But in no way do I ever let kids who aren't fully potty trained be in undies in my house. Multiple potty accidents are not a sanitary environment for the other children and constantly cleaning them up takes you away from the kids.

Here is my potty training policy. I will support what the parents are doing at home but training but be started and successful with parents before we start here. Child wears disposable pull ups or diaper while training until they go 2 full weeks without one time wetting the diaper or pull up. If they have more than one accident per week after they start wearing undies they go right back to diapers or pull ups until they are dry again for 2 full weeks.
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JoseyJo 12:33 PM 04-24-2013
We also do not allow underwear at daycare until the child is accident free *at daycare* for at least a week. Too many parents push underwear too fast. Personally I don't even like pullups and we prefer to potty train in diapers until the child is able to pull down their pants and get on the potty by themselves, wipe and pull back on their pullup/underwear and pants.

We did have one little one whose mom was adamant that she had potty trained him over the weekend and wanted him in underwear. I told her we would try it, and if he had 1 accident it would be back in pullups/diapers until accident free at daycare for a week- he never had an accident, even at nap!
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mnemom 01:19 PM 04-24-2013
I would not allow them to wear underwear until they were consistently going in the potty for 2 weeks. I have set times that everyone tries to use the potty. Those are the same times that I change the diapered ones too. If they are older than 18 months, I ask them if they would like to sit on the potty before being diapered again. I would take a HUGE step back from potty learning right now, and encourage the parents to wait a bit longer because the child seems really stressed.
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Babybear911 02:35 PM 04-24-2013
Thank you everyone!! You have all given me the information I needed! Today I will be having a little conversation with the parents.

Cheers!!
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clep 02:39 PM 04-24-2013
I will not support a parent in their quest to push their child to potty teach before they are ready. It is obvious this particular child isn't ready.

I usually tell them nicely that their child is not ready and I won't be continuing the process here. I always use the line....."It's no big deal. It's not like little ____ will be going to kindergarten in diapers"...with a big smile on my face. I do explain I will not traumatize a child and go about explaining what things I will do in the meantime to aid in their child being ready. I basically let them know how I will work with them, but not against the child.

In eight years I have only had one parent really insist, and after about six months of the issue with her I termed.

I put children in underwear from day one of potty teaching. We go through a two week prep first though. After the week of prep and from the first day of physically potty teaching, I have never had a child take more than five days from beginning to end, with the exception of the one I mentioned above who wasn't ready. Day one and two are at home and the other three days are with me. I might have a child wet their pants two or three times in total. If a child is ready, it doesn't look like it does with the child you have.
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nannyde 02:40 PM 04-24-2013
Originally Posted by cheerfuldom:
I don't allow children to wear undies only until they are accident free here at daycare for two solid weeks. That means they use pullups or cloth trainers/plastic pants in the meantime. There is no way in hell that I would clean up constant accidents for a month!!!

*notice "accident free at daycare" policy. I don't trust parents to be honest about accidents at home. I have been doing daycare for 6 years as well and find the vast majority of parents to misrepresent the truth or straight out lie when it comes to potty training. I tell them when undies are okay in my home, not the other way around!
Yes potty success is second only to illness misrepresentation for parental lying.
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cheerfuldom 07:57 PM 04-24-2013
Originally Posted by nannyde:
Yes potty success is second only to illness misrepresentation for parental lying.
I know right? I hate to say "lying" because I do think that parents are not well informed on reasonable expectations for potty readiness....especially in a daycare settings. I do think that sometimes it comes from them being so excited for progress that they feel one pee in the potty means they are close to the finish line for training. The rest of the parents are just tired of paying for diapers or tired of other people asking when Junior will be potty trained. A good handout about potty readiness and your policy is a must have for all daycare providers! Hand it out starting as soon as the kid can walk and give the same thing to the parents every 3 to 6 months so they have the reminder! Post it to your website, FB page, parent newsletter and keep it fresh in their minds. when they try to push things on you, give them another copy with a smile
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Meyou 02:06 AM 04-25-2013
This is slightly off topic but related to parent potty delusions....

I'm doing some drop in this week for another provider who is having a baby. Day 1 4 year old DCG spilled water in her lap and had a tiny accident on route to the potty. The accident was mostly due to the fact that the child was in multiple layers and had trouble undressing fast enough. She held most of it but a dribble escaped. Not a big deal.

Well, the next morning mom explained to me in a condescending voice that DCG has been doing so, so well and two accidents was really too much. I explained that one was water and one was technically not an "accident" in my mind. She then told me in a sickly sweet annoying voice that DCG needs to be reminded often about potty and not to forget today so there were no more accidents. (Lady, did you hear my explanation at all?)

It was all I could do not to say back to her in the same sickly sweet voice that 4yo DCG's who needed constant reminders should be wearing diapers because they aren't actually trained yet.
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Patches 05:57 AM 04-25-2013
Originally Posted by Babybear911:
So bit of a pickle. I have 3 kids potty training at daycare. No biggy for me...but new situation I have never had to deal with before. The parent who is adamant that their child potty train...but child is freaked out, scared, or just not ready?

Scenario---- One child is excited, loves practicing (sitting on potty just because they think they have to go) to second child who only occassionally (once a day) uses potty to the third child who refuses to use potty.

The "Refusal" child Pee's and poops in underwear all day long and when I ask if they can use potty before we go outside, field trips, park ect..****ns other direction and flips out (cries and screams at me) if you bring potty to them?? Parents insist potty training is to proceed even though I've mentioned child shows NO interest! Child now just uses underwear like a diaper!

This has been going on for over a month. Should I just keep child peeing and pooping in underwear (I'm feeling it to be a lot of work for clean up for me ---even with me not washing the child's clothes but bagging them) The entire process of potty training should be for the "child" to have interest and take the lead where the caregivers/parents just gently remind them to use potty?

In the 6+ years I've run daycare I have never seen anything like this before. Parents usually support my suggestion of not pushing potty training and or appreciate I'm trying to care for 4 other children and use pull ups! (much easier clean up then poop and pee going all over trying to take clothes off! (I know...I left quite a visual for everyone! Lol. But seriously! Im feeling a bit frustrated! What would you daycare providers do???

Blah! Suggestions please!
This child is not ready and needs to be in a diaper! (or pull up although I think that would be a waste the way he's soiling his underwear)
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kelliott 11:06 AM 04-26-2013
i don't run a daycare..i am a parent whose child is in daycare though.. my son is 2 and will be 3 in june.. i started potty training him the day he turned 2!.. i tried rewards/snacks after every potty/poop on the toilet..i tried large amounts of praise/clapping and "you did it!!"s... last week is his first week in regular underwear and he has not had a single accident-even at night!... basically what i'm getting at is, he is not ready. i had a hard time with training my boy and would even cry about it out of frustration sometimes!... children are not stupid, and some just take longer to develop.. just like learning the ABC's, counting, reading levels in grade school!... when they are ready, they will be ready, and you will know it... tell the parents to give it time..!

with my son, i take him to daycare in his underwear and advise the DCP that if he has an accident a pull up is %100 okay and absolutely neccessary as there are other kids to clean up after and watch as well!..regular underwear first, after the FIRST accident, a pullup is put on my child until pick up.. i also do not require them to wash his peed on or pooped on clothes!.. though that would be nice
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nanglgrl 12:37 PM 04-26-2013
Originally Posted by kelliott:
i don't run a daycare..i am a parent whose child is in daycare though.. my son is 2 and will be 3 in june.. i started potty training him the day he turned 2!.. i tried rewards/snacks after every potty/poop on the toilet..i tried large amounts of praise/clapping and "you did it!!"s... last week is his first week in regular underwear and he has not had a single accident-even at night!... basically what i'm getting at is, he is not ready. i had a hard time with training my boy and would even cry about it out of frustration sometimes!... children are not stupid, and some just take longer to develop.. just like learning the ABC's, counting, reading levels in grade school!... when they are ready, they will be ready, and you will know it... tell the parents to give it time..!

with my son, i take him to daycare in his underwear and advise the DCP that if he has an accident a pull up is %100 okay and absolutely neccessary as there are other kids to clean up after and watch as well!..regular underwear first, after the FIRST accident, a pullup is put on my child until pick up.. i also do not require them to wash his peed on or pooped on clothes!.. though that would be nice
You are absolutely correct, children train when they are ready. Good for you at sticking to it for almost a year and getting him trained! I'm confused though about what you said about your son. You said he doesn't have accidents at home but when he has one at your providers house you let her put him in a pullup and don't require her to wash his clothing? So is he having them at daycare and not at home? Please understand that your provider is being very accommodating by letting him have one accident before putting him in a pull up. A lot of providers require that a child be accident free for 2 weeks before they can wear underwear at daycare because we can not maintain a sanitary environment otherwise.
I'm sure it would be nice if your provider would clean up your child's underwear after he has an accident but that this is against state regulations in some states and is not considered best practices for childcare.
Thank your provider for being so accommodating and keep trying to put yourself in her shoes.
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kelliott 01:15 PM 04-26-2013
Originally Posted by nanglgrl:
You are absolutely correct, children train when they are ready. Good for you at sticking to it for almost a year and getting him trained! I'm confused though about what you said about your son. You said he doesn't have accidents at home but when he has one at your providers house you let her put him in a pullup and don't require her to wash his clothing? So is he having them at daycare and not at home? Please understand that your provider is being very accommodating by letting him have one accident before putting him in a pull up. A lot of providers require that a child be accident free for 2 weeks before they can wear underwear at daycare because we can not maintain a sanitary environment otherwise.
I'm sure it would be nice if your provider would clean up your child's underwear after he has an accident but that this is against state regulations in some states and is not considered best practices for childcare.
Thank your provider for being so accommodating and keep trying to put yourself in her shoes.
i first asked my provider if they would be okay with me putting him in regular underwear.. i had explained to them that he had been doing very well and not having accidents in his pullups. they, too, had told me he had been doing very well using the toilet there so both parties felt comfortable putting him in regular underwear.. since he's started on regulare underwear he hasn't had a single accident-at bedtime, at home, or at daycare. i know accidents happen though so i just advised them that IF an accident occured a pullup was fine by me for the rest of the day. i also do not require her to clean his underwear/outfit as he has a backup in his daycare cubby everyday. a simple tied plastic baggy with his dirty clothes if fine by me..

*he is doing so well and i'm super proud of him!!!
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Unregistered 06:15 PM 12-31-2015
I would either clean up the messes or expect the parents to move the kid if you refuse to cooperate with them. Find motivators for the kid. Some kids need cloth to motivate them to train. I have a 3 year old who is pretty well trained at home. pee trained at school but has issues with poop. The school gave up on him and he had been telling them but not soon enough in underwear. Mind you since he has been back in diapers he won't tell them anymore. Gee wonder why. He also has IBS so we have to adjust expectations for that. Have seen issues where they are denying a kids request to potty, not a good idea with IBS. When you gotta go you gotta go. If I place him in a diaper or pullup it is a guarantee poop in the pants if he is naked or in loose underwear he uses the facilities on his own unprompted. Runs off and takes care of business. I am in the process if getting him on a waitlist for another school because of the issues. They also refuse to put him in cloth which would drive the message home quick what he needs to do. So to all of you who are pro diaper pullup or until no accidents some parents will pull their kids from you because they know it does not always work. If this is your policy be prepared to loose kids over it.

So from the daycare perspective I understand the frusteration, however from parental experience, you can sabatoge the parents work with your ideal world.
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spedmommy4 07:05 PM 12-31-2015
Originally Posted by Unregistered:
I would either clean up the messes or expect the parents to move the kid if you refuse to cooperate with them. Find motivators for the kid. Some kids need cloth to motivate them to train. I have a 3 year old who is pretty well trained at home. pee trained at school but has issues with poop. The school gave up on him and he had been telling them but not soon enough in underwear. Mind you since he has been back in diapers he won't tell them anymore. Gee wonder why. He also has IBS so we have to adjust expectations for that. Have seen issues where they are denying a kids request to potty, not a good idea with IBS. When you gotta go you gotta go. If I place him in a diaper or pullup it is a guarantee poop in the pants if he is naked or in loose underwear he uses the facilities on his own unprompted. Runs off and takes care of business. I am in the process if getting him on a waitlist for another school because of the issues. They also refuse to put him in cloth which would drive the message home quick what he needs to do. So to all of you who are pro diaper pullup or until no accidents some parents will pull their kids from you because they know it does not always work. If this is your policy be prepared to loose kids over it.

So from the daycare perspective I understand the frusteration, however from parental experience, you can sabatoge the parents work with your ideal world.
This thread a few years old. I don't think many of the original posters are going to chime in on this.

Also, it's not a frustration issue in group care, it's a sanitation issue. I have three kids of potty training age. I don't potty train and none of my parents have questioned this. I have two classrooms and both are carpeted. If all three of the kids were potty training and having a normal number of accidents here, my carpets would be unsanitary. (Plastic covers don't always contain the mess)

It also takes up significant staff time to change kids clothes, bag them, and store them. During the time me or my staff is doing this, the other person is solely responsible for the other 11 kids. And finally, the smell of multiple kids "accident clothes" in bags gets gross really quick.

If a client doesn't want to work with me after I explain this, I wouldn't miss them.
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auntymimi 10:54 AM 01-01-2016
Originally Posted by Patches:
This child is not ready and needs to be in a diaper! (or pull up although I think that would be a waste the way he's soiling his underwear)
I have a sneaking suspicion that child is put back into diapers when home. No way would mom/dad continue to clean up messes like that either. Child is sent to daycare in undies hoping the provider will train. Or mom/dad has child sit on potty every half an hour until child goes, however long that takes, which may account for why dck freaks out when asked about using the potty at daycare. Probably a bit of both.
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spedmommy4 11:50 AM 01-01-2016
Originally Posted by auntymimi:
I have a sneaking suspicion that child is put back into diapers when home. No way would mom/dad continue to clean up messes like that either. Child is sent to daycare in undies hoping the provider will train. Or mom/dad has child sit on potty every half an hour until child goes, however long that takes, which may account for why dck freaks out when asked about using the potty at daycare. Probably a bit of both.
Possibly. The other potty training issue I keep encountering is punishment in potty training. I have had two parents now that came down hard on the kids for normal toileting accidents. (Time outs, negative comments) This led to increased accidents, kids that freaked out when asked to use the potty, and regression. Potty training has become a non negotiable policy issue here because parents seem to fall in either one extreme or the other. They are either too gung ho or are going to wait to potty train until junior goes to college.
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Unregistered 09:26 PM 01-01-2016
Originally Posted by auntymimi:
I have a sneaking suspicion that child is put back into diapers when home. No way would mom/dad continue to clean up messes like that either. Child is sent to daycare in undies hoping the provider will train. Or mom/dad has child sit on potty every half an hour until child goes, however long that takes, which may account for why dck freaks out when asked about using the potty at daycare. Probably a bit of both.
I work in a large daycare and this method is used. IMO, it doesn't work. Due to missing kinder cut off, I've had five year olds in my room who were NOT potty trained. They had no medical issues and would ask to go to the bathroom literally every 20-40 minutes. It's doable, because have a building floater and aides, but really they're not ready for kinder. One year, I had the younger sibling of a past student. The mother was exactly like the poster on here. She was like "They called me to come get X. I couldn't believe they change her/him". Um, that's not how public school works. After a few times with that, the child was fully potty trained. I think part of the reason this is rampant is because disposable diapers really aren't good. When my dd was born, I switched to cloth, because she kept getting rashes. She just shy of 18 months when she was potty trained. She has a cousin who is younger than her but older than my second child, it really confirmed my belief in cloth when her cousin was THREE (also a girl) and had no interest in using the toilet. She would just crouch in a corner and poop. Stink up the room and be fine with it.
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auntymimi 06:05 AM 01-02-2016
Personally, and this may not be a popular opinion, I believe when kids are truly ready to train (can detect the feeling of having to go, verbalize it, remove clothing, and make it to the toilet on time) it takes very little actual "training". I believe potty learning, from a training standpoint, involves teaching children to verbalize, helping them learn self care skills, and exposing them to the way the rest of us take care of our need to "go". You can't actually teach recognizing the sensation of needing to use the toilet, or the ability to hold it until they can do so. That, only the child can do. When adults use timers, ect. I believe it mucks up the whole system. First "train" them to use words. "Train" them to remove clothing and pull them back up, wash their hands. Let them see, and explain, how mom, dad, and siblings take care of their potty needs. If you do all of these things first, they will begin to use the toilet on their own as soon as they're ready. This, of course, is assuming there are no developmental delays, ect. I think when we push too hard to fast (sitting a non verbal child on the potty every 30 mins, ect.) we put the cart before the horse and the whole process takes much longer than it should, or you end up with older kids having "accidents" because kindergarten teacher doesn't remind kids to potty every 45 min, or jr. figures out it's a GREAT way to get extra attention from adults.
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spedmommy4 07:08 AM 01-02-2016
Originally Posted by auntymimi:
Personally, and this may not be a popular opinion, I believe when kids are truly ready to train (can detect the feeling of having to go, verbalize it, remove clothing, and make it to the toilet on time) it takes very little actual "training". I believe potty learning, from a training standpoint, involves teaching children to verbalize, helping them learn self care skills, and exposing them to the way the rest of us take care of our need to "go". You can't actually teach recognizing the sensation of needing to use the toilet, or the ability to hold it until they can do so. That, only the child can do. When adults use timers, ect. I believe it mucks up the whole system. First "train" them to use words. "Train" them to remove clothing and pull them back up, wash their hands. Let them see, and explain, how mom, dad, and siblings take care of their potty needs. If you do all of these things first, they will begin to use the toilet on their own as soon as they're ready. This, of course, is assuming there are no developmental delays, ect. I think when we push too hard to fast (sitting a non verbal child on the potty every 30 mins, ect.) we put the cart before the horse and the whole process takes much longer than it should, or you end up with older kids having "accidents" because kindergarten teacher doesn't remind kids to potty every 45 min, or jr. figures out it's a GREAT way to get extra attention from adults.
. No arguments here. I feel like most parents haven't figured this out though. I have had young twos getting "trained" with rewards and punishment. . And I have had 4 year olds who were clearly ready but the parents didn't want to put in the effort. Like you, I believe that toilet learning is individual to each child. IME, the newer generation of parents isn't receiving any information on how to watch for the readiness signs and support their child's efforts.
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Unregistered 04:00 PM 02-13-2016
As a parent I have had to bug the director to find out issues like mines bms are messed up at school despite dietary changes. At home normalized out with doerary changes. Well as a parent if I am not told and you wonder why he is not training well at school think again. Might be a medical issue I had to get into a fight with the doctors office to get him medication to stop him from having issues at school. Mysteriously starts using the potty after that. Not allowed underwear yet but making progress. He is much different at home so without their input there is little chance of sucess. Mind you I am taking him to a different doctor as soon as I can get into a different ped GI. What he is suggesting works but is not a longterm solution. No real diagnostics have been done to explain some things. Also a jerk too. Still am of the opinion if you are being paid to train them in cloth than do it. Think about that too. Make sire there are no underlying issues. Training a child with IBS is completely different than normal. A kid with IBS has 3 different cramps and an immediate need for the facilities not a you can wait. If the parents dont know they cannot fix the problem. I can see from sanitation there is a point where you do have to do the work and listen to the parents. Some kids do not train in diapers. Some kids need a swift kick in the rear end to progress to the next level and if you wait. They will be in diapers in kindergarten
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Unregistered 07:12 PM 02-13-2016
Originally Posted by Unregistered:
. They will be in diapers in kindergarten
The saying used to be "Don't worry. They won't go to kindergarten in diapers."
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Josiegirl 12:15 PM 02-14-2016
What about the almost 4 yo who did pretty well for a few weeks, she knew what she was doing here(except for bm.s), then she starts refusing to use the potty at all? She hasn't come since before Christmas but did come and visit for a couple hours one afternoon. And she's still squatting behind shelves to poop, yelling at everybody to go away.
She'll be back in April and I just assumed she'd be potty-trained by then, being 1 month shy of 4 yo.

It's truly frustrating when you know they're ready but they're in control. What do you do then??
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Josiegirl 12:16 PM 02-14-2016
Originally Posted by Unregistered:
The saying used to be "Don't worry. They won't go to kindergarten in diapers."
Exactly! Sadly, that doesn't always apply anymore.
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Ariana 06:15 PM 02-14-2016
Originally Posted by auntymimi:
Personally, and this may not be a popular opinion, I believe when kids are truly ready to train (can detect the feeling of having to go, verbalize it, remove clothing, and make it to the toilet on time) it takes very little actual "training". I believe potty learning, from a training standpoint, involves teaching children to verbalize, helping them learn self care skills, and exposing them to the way the rest of us take care of our need to "go". You can't actually teach recognizing the sensation of needing to use the toilet, or the ability to hold it until they can do so. That, only the child can do. When adults use timers, ect. I believe it mucks up the whole system. First "train" them to use words. "Train" them to remove clothing and pull them back up, wash their hands. Let them see, and explain, how mom, dad, and siblings take care of their potty needs. If you do all of these things first, they will begin to use the toilet on their own as soon as they're ready. This, of course, is assuming there are no developmental delays, ect. I think when we push too hard to fast (sitting a non verbal child on the potty every 30 mins, ect.) we put the cart before the horse and the whole process takes much longer than it should, or you end up with older kids having "accidents" because kindergarten teacher doesn't remind kids to potty every 45 min, or jr. figures out it's a GREAT way to get extra attention from adults.
. Great advice too!
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Play Care 05:47 AM 02-15-2016
Originally Posted by Josiegirl:
What about the almost 4 yo who did pretty well for a few weeks, she knew what she was doing here(except for bm.s), then she starts refusing to use the potty at all? She hasn't come since before Christmas but did come and visit for a couple hours one afternoon. And she's still squatting behind shelves to poop, yelling at everybody to go away.
She'll be back in April and I just assumed she'd be potty-trained by then, being 1 month shy of 4 yo.

It's truly frustrating when you know they're ready but they're in control. What do you do then??
With my older DD we had to keep a close eye on her and put her on the potty when we saw her start to do the hide and squat she was pee trained but had constipation issues and was afraid of pooping on the potty. We finally realized she wasn't going to magically "get it" on her own.

But we are her parents and IMO, that was OUR job.
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Tags:potty trained - not, potty training
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