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  #1  
Old 12-03-2015, 06:02 PM
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Default DCF Just Termed Without Notice

I just been termed by a DCF, with out notice and they do not want to give me one either.

My dd bit dcb a four times during a 2 month period, she bit in retaliation to him stealing a toy from her or hitting her. One time I did not see the bite another time, I was distracted at pick up and got interrupted when I want to tell them.
I was always honest with how and why it happened.

DCM recently had surgery and been home while DCB comes. DCM has not been able to pick DCB up for a few weeks and he knows she is home. DCM says DCB has gotten more aggressive. DCM says DCB is getting more aggressive. DCB is true boy (not sure how to word that) but he climbs, plays in the dirt, he dumps things, he strong (upper body, He plays tug of war with his family's dog) -- he is a real boy type. I did not see anything wrong with his "aggression", he was just being a boy. He was not hurting any one.

Last time she bit was before Thanksgiving but did not leave until today. They kept bringing him for full days even though dcm was home and off restrictions. I sent him home when he was not feelong well and DCD still wanted him to come the next day.

This is the 4th family this year. One DCM lost her job, another DCF I termed, Drop in that contract expired and now this one.

Ugh. I am so upset. This DCB, I looked forward to coming and missed him when he was not here. I even had gotten him a gift for Christmas.


How did you feel after a DCF termed you?
Should I push the no notice, since my dd was the biter?
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  #2  
Old 12-03-2015, 08:19 PM
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It's always hard when a family leaves. As much as I try not to take it personally I still do.

If they signed a contract that says they have to give notice I'd push it. If not, I'd let it go.

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Old 12-04-2015, 04:02 AM
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It's always hard when a family leaves. As much as I try not to take it personally I still do.

If they signed a contract that says they have to give notice I'd push it. If not, I'd let it go.

I agree with this.
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Old 12-04-2015, 04:30 AM
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I wouldn't push it. He's prolly staying with his mom or some other cheaper option. I also think they'll blame your child and possibly say petty comments.
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Old 12-04-2015, 04:39 AM
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What does your contract say?
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  #6  
Old 12-04-2015, 08:55 AM
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What does your contract say?
Contract says 2 week notice.
This is not the first daycare they left. He got bit and unexplained injuries at the last place.
They plan on sending him to the new daycare in town when it opens or when mom goes back to work.

(I blame DCD, he has poor communication skills and was uncomfortable to talk to. He has been doing most drop offs and all pick ups. I had a great relationship and open communication with DCM.)

So do I have a leg to stand on since, it was my dd who bit?
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Old 12-04-2015, 09:06 AM
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Originally Posted by Devastated View Post
Contract says 2 week notice.
This is not the first daycare they left. He got bit and unexplained injuries at the last place.
They plan on sending him to the new daycare in town when it opens or when mom goes back to work.

(I blame DCD, he has poor communication skills and was uncomfortable to talk to. He has been doing most drop offs and all pick ups. I had a great relationship and open communication with DCM.)

So do I have a leg to stand on since, it was my dd who bit?
Unless it says in your contract that biting is considered an immediate termination and breach of contract (which I doubt it does) they still owe you the two weeks.

I had a biter who just wouldn't learn (took like 4 months). This is how two years olds learn - so frustrating. It's just a part of life and withdrawing your child over it is silly imo. They probably can't afford it right now and are looking for excuses.
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  #8  
Old 12-04-2015, 09:18 AM
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Unless it says in your contract that biting is considered an immediate termination and breach of contract (which I doubt it does) they still owe you the two weeks.
This is dependent on several details.

Does your handbook or policies state how you as the provider will deal with biting or aggressive behavior that causes physical harm to others? Any documentation in regards to how (detailed) being managed?

If not, the family may have been well within their rights to pull their child out of care regardless of WHO it was that bit their child. As a parent you couldn't make me continue bringing my child somewhere that he/she was not safe.

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Originally Posted by NillaWafers View Post
I had a biter who just wouldn't learn (took like 4 months). This is how two years olds learn - so frustrating. It's just a part of life and withdrawing your child over it is silly imo. They probably can't afford it right now and are looking for excuses.
The biter isn't the one that should learn.... while biting IS not acceptable it IS normal for certain ages and they don't learn not to bite, they are taught alternate methods of getting what they need/want....it's the caregiver that needs to learn how to find that or how to teach that to each child.

Also terming because of biting isn't silly. Human bites can cause all sorts of other issues and not only that but are one of THE most painful types of bites a person can ever endure.

Being bit once is one thing...being bit multiple times and I'd pull my child out immediately and without notice.

SAFETY trumps all else.
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  #9  
Old 12-04-2015, 09:39 AM
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This is dependent on several details.

Does your handbook or policies state how you as the provider will deal with biting or aggressive behavior that causes physical harm to others? Any documentation in regards to how (detailed) being managed?

If not, the family may have been well within their rights to pull their child out of care regardless of WHO it was that bit their child. As a parent you couldn't make me continue bringing my child somewhere that he/she was not safe.



The biter isn't the one that should learn.... while biting IS not acceptable it IS normal for certain ages and they don't learn not to bite, they are taught alternate methods of getting what they need/want....it's the caregiver that needs to learn how to find that or how to teach that to each child.

Also terming because of biting isn't silly. Human bites can cause all sorts of other issues and not only that but are one of THE most painful types of bites a person can ever endure.

Being bit once is one thing...being bit multiple times and I'd pull my child out immediately and without notice.

SAFETY trumps all else.
Sure it all depends on the contract. It depends on the severity of the bites too. With my biter I redirected every time and tried to keep situations where it normally occurred from happening. She still managed to bite despite my best efforts. I guess I just feel for OP because it's a hard situation to be in. Especially when it's your own kid. I know feeling guilty about the bites would make me want to just let it go. But being out two weeks of money right before Christmas is hard too.
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Old 12-04-2015, 09:53 AM
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Sure it all depends on the contract. It depends on the severity of the bites too. With my biter I redirected every time and tried to keep situations where it normally occurred from happening. She still managed to bite despite my best efforts. I guess I just feel for OP because it's a hard situation to be in. Especially when it's your own kid. I know feeling guilty about the bites would make me want to just let it go. But being out two weeks of money right before Christmas is hard too.
Oh I sympathize with the provider too....especially given the time of year.

I agree that it's a tough situation to be in but in my experience the parent of the child that is bitten is usually the party that receives the sympathy and the benefit of the doubt unless the provider can PROVE she what lengths she went to in order to prevent the biting from happening.
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  #11  
Old 12-04-2015, 10:08 AM
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I agree with BC. You probably won't have a leg to stand on to push the notice period.

How did you not see a bite? The child didn't cry? As a parent I would be LIVID that it happened numerous times. I probably would have termed without notice the first time my child was sent home with a bite mark- without the provider even TELLING me!
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  #12  
Old 12-04-2015, 11:14 AM
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If my child was biting this child repeatedly no way would I enforce the two weeks notice. I would instead ask if that was why they terminated and if it was I would apologize profusely.

I would not keep my child at a daycare where they were being bitten. Especially if this was not the first place it had been happening. I feel kind of bad for him and his family
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  #13  
Old 12-04-2015, 02:17 PM
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Originally Posted by Devastated View Post
I just been termed by a DCF, with out notice and they do not want to give me one either.

My dd bit dcb a four times during a 2 month period, she bit in retaliation to him stealing a toy from her or hitting her. One time I did not see the bite another time, I was distracted at pick up and got interrupted when I want to tell them.
I was always honest with how and why it happened.


DCM recently had surgery and been home while DCB comes. DCM has not been able to pick DCB up for a few weeks and he knows she is home. DCM says DCB has gotten more aggressive. DCM says DCB is getting more aggressive. DCB is true boy (not sure how to word that) but he climbs, plays in the dirt, he dumps things, he strong (upper body, He plays tug of war with his family's dog) -- he is a real boy type. I did not see anything wrong with his "aggression", he was just being a boy. He was not hurting any one.

Last time she bit was before Thanksgiving but did not leave until today. They kept bringing him for full days even though dcm was home and off restrictions. I sent him home when he was not feelong well and DCD still wanted him to come the next day.

This is the 4th family this year. One DCM lost her job, another DCF I termed, Drop in that contract expired and now this one.

Ugh. I am so upset. This DCB, I looked forward to coming and missed him when he was not here. I even had gotten him a gift for Christmas.


How did you feel after a DCF termed you?
Should I push the no notice, since my dd was the biter?
Because of what I bolded in the quote above, I would not request a formal, paid termination notice. The child has been bitten multiple times, 1 time went unnoticed by you, and 1 time went without the parents being notified by you when you did know. Regardless of whether you were or were not trying to "hide" something, the parents probably perceive the lack of notification as such. I also feel the statement about the biting being in retaliation would sound like you are excusing your child's biting, and feel that they should as well, rather than trying to find a solution to the issue. I'd let it go.
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  #14  
Old 12-04-2015, 02:41 PM
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I sympathize with you.
My child was a biter too (18 month at the time).
It took about a month to stop the behavior. During that time, he was removed from any space where he could bite one of the daycare children. Whether it was with Dad, on me (lap or carrier) or in a pack n' play.

Personally, if it were me, I'd let them leave without the two week notice.

In the future, if it ever happens with another child, I'd suggest having a conference with the parents and letting them know YOU have a plan in place, what it is and how you plan to protect their child. Although biting may be normal to US, it's usually not seen as normal or acceptable to our clients/parents. All they see (and rightfully so) is that their child got hurt in your care.
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  #15  
Old 12-04-2015, 02:45 PM
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Because of what I bolded in the quote above, I would not request a formal, paid termination notice. The child has been bitten multiple times, 1 time went unnoticed by you, and 1 time went without the parents being notified by you when you did know. Regardless of whether you were or were not trying to "hide" something, the parents probably perceive the lack of notification as such. I also feel the statement about the biting being in retaliation would sound like you are excusing your child's biting, and feel that they should as well, rather than trying to find a solution to the issue. I'd let it go.
I have to agree with this.

If you turn the tables and put yourself in the dcm place, how would you feel if it was your daughter being bitten?

I am sorry you are having to deal with this. I would just let it go.
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Old 12-04-2015, 04:02 PM
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I have to agree with this.

If you turn the tables and put yourself in the dcm place, how would you feel if it was your daughter being bitten?

I am sorry you are having to deal with this. I would just let it go.
Sadly, she did not bite until she was biten by another dcg. She stopped for months until she got bit by another dcg.
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Old 12-04-2015, 04:44 PM
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Because of what I bolded in the quote above, I would not request a formal, paid termination notice. The child has been bitten multiple times, 1 time went unnoticed by you, and 1 time went without the parents being notified by you when you did know. Regardless of whether you were or were not trying to "hide" something, the parents probably perceive the lack of notification as such. I also feel the statement about the biting being in retaliation would sound like you are excusing your child's biting, and feel that they should as well, rather than trying to find a solution to the issue. I'd let it go.
No I am not trying to excuse my dd, I am just ußing the definition that I found on the web when I was trying to find solutions. When I read the different types of biters, she fit the "retaliation biter" definition. So truthful, I should of fouced some on getting him to stop stealing, pushing and hitting. He even pulled he hair this last week. (Which she did not retaliate in anyway except to scream stop it)

I blame dcd anyways, he insisted on dcb coming no matter what. Even when dcb did not feel good.

As for not finding the bit. I looked dcb over, I could not see any thing. He stopped crying. The bite was found in a location that I did not think to look. I was so upset when dcm texted. Sadly, my feelings did not translate over my reply text, as hard as I tried.

Like I said I had great communication with dcm. I was keeping dcm up to date with what was going on, how she was doing and the research that I found was applying. I even went as far as getting dd a teething necklace.
But since dcd won't say more than a few words to me and I never saw dcm anymore, I droped the ball on updating them. They never knew that I was trying different things or how it was going.
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Old 12-04-2015, 04:48 PM
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Sadly, she did not bite until she was biten by another dcg. She stopped for months until she got bit by another dcg.
I understand this, however looking at it from this mothers perspective, I don't blame her for not wanting to send the child back there to possibly get bitten again. Doesnt matter who did it, what matters is that it was not being taken care of in the right way to be stopped and her child was not safe.
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Old 12-04-2015, 08:14 PM
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I never understand why some parents get so upset about a bite from another child?? I have been doing daycare for over 20 years (infants and toddlers) and, while I have fortunately only had a couple of biters in my 10 years of doing home daycare (and also had understanding parents while working thru this issue with these kids), when I worked in daycare centers it was rare that a day went by without a child being bitten in the toddler room. Some kids are biters. Unfortunately, that is how some express their frustration at this age. It's a phase and perfectly normal (unacceptable, but normal) toddler behavior. A child that bites is not a bad child. They just need to be watched carefully and taught a different way to communicate and handle their frustration.

Not once have I ever seen a child have a serious reaction or require medical treatment from being bitten by another child. Does it hurt? It really, really does but they are fine a few minutes later. While obviously it is possible for a child to be bitten severely enough that medical attention is required that is not usually the case. It's over and forgotten within minutes for them yet some parents are just outraged by it! I think having your toddler bitten by another toddler occasionally when in a daycare setting is something you have to accept is going to happen.
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Old 12-04-2015, 08:36 PM
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I never understand why some parents get so upset about a bite from another child?? I have been doing daycare for over 20 years (infants and toddlers) and, while I have fortunately only had a couple of biters in my 10 years of doing home daycare (and also had understanding parents while working thru this issue with these kids), when I worked in daycare centers it was rare that a day went by without a child being bitten in the toddler room. Some kids are biters. Unfortunately, that is how some express their frustration at this age. It's a phase and perfectly normal (unacceptable, but normal) toddler behavior. A child that bites is not a bad child. They just need to be watched carefully and taught a different way to communicate and handle their frustration.

Not once have I ever seen a child have a serious reaction or require medical treatment from being bitten by another child. Does it hurt? It really, really does but they are fine a few minutes later. While obviously it is possible for a child to be bitten severely enough that medical attention is required that is not usually the case. It's over and forgotten within minutes for them yet some parents are just outraged by it! I think having your toddler bitten by another toddler occasionally when in a daycare setting is something you have to accept is going to happen.
Bites that break skin can be very serious. Yes they happen, but they can be serious. And quite frankly for a child to be bitten over and over by another child is abuse. No, it isn't the adult doing it, but it is still abusive if it isn't stopped. There is no difference in an adult abusing a child and another child doing it IMHO. And the reason why the child is biting doesn't really matter, unless that reason can be used to stop it. I would be very upset if my child was bitten four times and noting seemed to be helping, and I would pull my child for their safety. One bite or maybe two I could understand. It does make it harder if the providers child is doing the biting, because you can't very well term your own child.
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Old 12-04-2015, 10:01 PM
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Bites that break skin can be very serious. Yes they happen, but they can be serious. And quite frankly for a child to be bitten over and over by another child is abuse. No, it isn't the adult doing it, but it is still abusive if it isn't stopped. There is no difference in an adult abusing a child and another child doing it IMHO. And the reason why the child is biting doesn't really matter, unless that reason can be used to stop it. I would be very upset if my child was bitten four times and noting seemed to be helping, and I would pull my child for their safety. One bite or maybe two I could understand. It does make it harder if the providers child is doing the biting, because you can't very well term your own child.
Abuse?? Toddler on toddler abuse?

I currently have 3 toddlers in my care. One has a problem with pushing. Pushes the other kids multiple times every single day (often for no apparent reason and sometimes really hard). I have another that hits. With his hands or he will just whack someone with whatever toy happens to be in his hand. The 3rd just likes to follow the others around and steal whatever they are playing with and run away. All of these things would certainly be considered abusive...if they weren't toddlers! But they are toddlers and these are all normal behaviors in a toddler. We have to teach them and work with them not to do these things but it doesn't happen over night. It takes time and patience.

Biting is also normal behavior for some toddlers. It is unusual, in my experience, that a child bites just occasionally. Either a kid is a biter or they're not. What makes one kid a biter but not another I don't know but it is what it is and it could just as easily be your child doing the biting. The child that bites another child is not being abusive to that child anymore than the child that hits or pushes another child. They are just being toddlers. They have yet to learn that these are not appropriate ways to handle themselves.

This child was bitten 4 times in 2 months. That is not excessive to me. A child that is going thru a biting phase and spends his/her day with other similarly aged children will likely try to bite multiple times every single day! If your child is comes home with 4 bites in a day or a week then yeah, your provider is not on top of the situation but if your going to put your toddler in a place with other toddlers they may come home with a bite now and then.

Biting is not a fun phase for anyone involved but it really isn't as big of a deal as some people make it out to be and it isn't so easy to stop. But, bites don't usually break the skin and even when they do it is highly unlikely to be serious or require any more attention then some TLC.

It could just as easily be your child doing the biting...What then?
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Old 12-05-2015, 05:44 AM
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Abuse?? Toddler on toddler abuse?

I currently have 3 toddlers in my care. One has a problem with pushing. Pushes the other kids multiple times every single day (often for no apparent reason and sometimes really hard). I have another that hits. With his hands or he will just whack someone with whatever toy happens to be in his hand. The 3rd just likes to follow the others around and steal whatever they are playing with and run away. All of these things would certainly be considered abusive...if they weren't toddlers! But they are toddlers and these are all normal behaviors in a toddler. We have to teach them and work with them not to do these things but it doesn't happen over night. It takes time and patience.

Biting is also normal behavior for some toddlers. It is unusual, in my experience, that a child bites just occasionally. Either a kid is a biter or they're not. What makes one kid a biter but not another I don't know but it is what it is and it could just as easily be your child doing the biting. The child that bites another child is not being abusive to that child anymore than the child that hits or pushes another child. They are just being toddlers. They have yet to learn that these are not appropriate ways to handle themselves.

This child was bitten 4 times in 2 months. That is not excessive to me. A child that is going thru a biting phase and spends his/her day with other similarly aged children will likely try to bite multiple times every single day! If your child is comes home with 4 bites in a day or a week then yeah, your provider is not on top of the situation but if your going to put your toddler in a place with other toddlers they may come home with a bite now and then.

Biting is not a fun phase for anyone involved but it really isn't as big of a deal as some people make it out to be and it isn't so easy to stop. But, bites don't usually break the skin and even when they do it is highly unlikely to be serious or require any more attention then some TLC.

It could just as easily be your child doing the biting...What then?
If my child had been bitten 4 times (I definitely consider that repeatedly), it would certainly be a big deal to me. Sure, as providers we know that it is developmentally normal, but as a parent, that would be of little comfort to me. Our children depend on us to protect them. I wouldn't keep sending them back to a place where I knew there was a good chance they'd be bitten again.
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Old 12-05-2015, 06:23 AM
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Abuse?? Toddler on toddler abuse?

I currently have 3 toddlers in my care. One has a problem with pushing. Pushes the other kids multiple times every single day (often for no apparent reason and sometimes really hard). I have another that hits. With his hands or he will just whack someone with whatever toy happens to be in his hand. The 3rd just likes to follow the others around and steal whatever they are playing with and run away. All of these things would certainly be considered abusive...if they weren't toddlers! But they are toddlers and these are all normal behaviors in a toddler. We have to teach them and work with them not to do these things but it doesn't happen over night. It takes time and patience.

ETA: I just watched a news story a bit ago about people double dipping at parties and such. They discussed how it transfers things from SARS to salmonella. Bodily fluids can carry illness and disease and a bite that breaks the skin potentially gives these things a path right into the body.

Biting is also normal behavior for some toddlers. It is unusual, in my experience, that a child bites just occasionally. Either a kid is a biter or they're not. What makes one kid a biter but not another I don't know but it is what it is and it could just as easily be your child doing the biting. The child that bites another child is not being abusive to that child anymore than the child that hits or pushes another child. They are just being toddlers. They have yet to learn that these are not appropriate ways to handle themselves.

This child was bitten 4 times in 2 months. That is not excessive to me. A child that is going thru a biting phase and spends his/her day with other similarly aged children will likely try to bite multiple times every single day! If your child is comes home with 4 bites in a day or a week then yeah, your provider is not on top of the situation but if your going to put your toddler in a place with other toddlers they may come home with a bite now and then.

Biting is not a fun phase for anyone involved but it really isn't as big of a deal as some people make it out to be and it isn't so easy to stop. But, bites don't usually break the skin and even when they do it is highly unlikely to be serious or require any more attention then some TLC.

It could just as easily be your child doing the biting...What then?

Yes, it is abusive if it is hurting a child repeatedly. I see no difference in my hitting a child and hurting him and another child doing the same thing. Sure kids have spats, and as long as we deal with them and it doesn't keep happening that is fine. But when it keeps happening it becomes abusive. I do feel for the provider, because it isn't easy to deal with a biter. But I also think that by terming the parents did what they felt they needed to do to protect their child, which is their job. Should they have communicated with the provider about it? Yes, for sure they should have. But those are two different issues.
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Old 12-05-2015, 07:45 AM
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I just been termed by a DCF, with out notice and they do not want to give me one either.

My dd bit dcb a four times during a 2 month period, she bit in retaliation to him stealing a toy from her or hitting her. One time I did not see the bite another time, I was distracted at pick up and got interrupted when I want to tell them.
I was always honest with how and why it happened.

DCM recently had surgery and been home while DCB comes. DCM has not been able to pick DCB up for a few weeks and he knows she is home. DCM says DCB has gotten more aggressive. DCM says DCB is getting more aggressive. DCB is true boy (not sure how to word that) but he climbs, plays in the dirt, he dumps things, he strong (upper body, He plays tug of war with his family's dog) -- he is a real boy type. I did not see anything wrong with his "aggression", he was just being a boy. He was not hurting any one.

Last time she bit was before Thanksgiving but did not leave until today. They kept bringing him for full days even though dcm was home and off restrictions. I sent him home when he was not feelong well and DCD still wanted him to come the next day.

This is the 4th family this year. One DCM lost her job, another DCF I termed, Drop in that contract expired and now this one.

Ugh. I am so upset. This DCB, I looked forward to coming and missed him when he was not here. I even had gotten him a gift for Christmas.


How did you feel after a DCF termed you?
Should I push the no notice, since my dd was the biter?
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Originally Posted by daycare View Post
I understand this, however looking at it from this mothers perspective, I don't blame her for not wanting to send the child back there to possibly get bitten again. Doesnt matter who did it, what matters is that it was not being taken care of in the right way to be stopped and her child was not safe.


OP states that DCM was at home but they continued to send the child on and off after the last bite, which was before Thanksgiving.

If my child was getting hurt, I would end care right then.

So it makes me wonder , why they kept coming back, especially if DCM was at home.

As Judge Judy would say "if it was so bad, why did you keep taking him there?"




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Originally Posted by daycarediva View Post
I agree with BC. You probably won't have a leg to stand on to push the notice period.

How did you not see a bite? The child didn't cry? As a parent I would be LIVID that it happened numerous times. I probably would have termed without notice the first time my child was sent home with a bite mark- without the provider even TELLING me!

Honestly this happen to me once, a bite happened and the child cried. When I asked what happen, I was told xx bit xx on the shoulder. I looked the shoulder over and could not find a thing. I told mom that xx admitted to biting her child but I could not find the bite. The next day, she came in and showed me a bruise, oval shaped that she found on the childs shoulder. There was no teeth marks, dcm even agreed.
Also, he did not cry for long, as soon as I gave him a hug he stopped, he never held his shoulder either.
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Old 12-05-2015, 11:25 AM
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OP states that DCM was at home but they continued to send the child on and off after the last bite, which was before Thanksgiving.

If my child was getting hurt, I would end care right then.

So it makes me wonder , why they kept coming back, especially if DCM was at home.

As Judge Judy would say "if it was so bad, why did you keep taking him there?"







Honestly this happen to me once, a bite happened and the child cried. When I asked what happen, I was told xx bit xx on the shoulder. I looked the shoulder over and could not find a thing. I told mom that xx admitted to biting her child but I could not find the bite. The next day, she came in and showed me a bruise, oval shaped that she found on the childs shoulder. There was no teeth marks, dcm even agreed.
Also, he did not cry for long, as soon as I gave him a hug he stopped, he never held his shoulder either.
I agree with you about them sending the child back. I also said the parents shouldn't have just quit with no notice or communication. The parents handled this wrong for sure in every way. I see this as two different issues. We don't know for sure they quit over the biting, because they never discussed it. BUT the biting does need to somehow be stopped. And it is harder as the providers own child because you can't term your own child.
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Old 12-05-2015, 04:11 PM
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OP states that DCM was at home but they continued to send the child on and off after the last bite, which was before Thanksgiving.

If my child was getting hurt, I would end care right then.

So it makes me wonder , why they kept coming back, especially if DCM was at home.

As Judge Judy would say "if it was so bad, why did you keep taking him there?"
.
Maybe they didn't leave because of the biting itself but left over the way the provider handled it.

She seemed to be defending her child alot and elaborated on all the bad things DCB did to her child.
She even blamed DCD for poor communication.
She also admitted to being distracted at pickup and not telling the parents about a bite that happened.
She also says she dropped the ball on keeping parents apprised of the situation and what she was doing about it.

Sounds like the provider may be the reason they left.
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Old 12-06-2015, 09:51 AM
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Yes, it is abusive if it is hurting a child repeatedly. I see no difference in my hitting a child and hurting him and another child doing the same thing. Sure kids have spats, and as long as we deal with them and it doesn't keep happening that is fine. But when it keeps happening it becomes abusive. I do feel for the provider, because it isn't easy to deal with a biter. But I also think that by terming the parents did what they felt they needed to do to protect their child, which is their job. Should they have communicated with the provider about it? Yes, for sure they should have. But those are two different issues.
You really see no difference between an adult hitting a child and a toddler hitting another toddler?
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Old 12-06-2015, 10:00 AM
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I sympathize with you.
My child was a biter too (18 month at the time).
It took about a month to stop the behavior. During that time, he was removed from any space where he could bite one of the daycare children. Whether it was with Dad, on me (lap or carrier) or in a pack n' play.

Personally, if it were me, I'd let them leave without the two week notice.

In the future, if it ever happens with another child, I'd suggest having a conference with the parents and letting them know YOU have a plan in place, what it is and how you plan to protect their child. Although biting may be normal to US, it's usually not seen as normal or acceptable to our clients/parents. All they see (and rightfully so) is that their child got hurt in your care.
Bitting isn't normal or acceptable behavior, though. At the age children bite (have enough teeth to bite) they should be able to talk. I.e. Say "Mine!" and pull a toy away instead of getting their toy taken away and bitting back. Most children who bite are nonverbal and/or special needs. I'm noticed 9 times out of 10, people who are ok with bitting usually were or their children are/were. My old boss used to get pissed at me when I would say bitting isn't a good sign and I later found out her son was a bitter.
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Old 12-06-2015, 10:12 AM
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Bites that break skin can be very serious. Yes they happen, but they can be serious. And quite frankly for a child to be bitten over and over by another child is abuse. No, it isn't the adult doing it, but it is still abusive if it isn't stopped. There is no difference in an adult abusing a child and another child doing it IMHO. And the reason why the child is biting doesn't really matter, unless that reason can be used to stop it. I would be very upset if my child was bitten four times and noting seemed to be helping, and I would pull my child for their safety. One bite or maybe two I could understand. It does make it harder if the providers child is doing the biting, because you can't very well term your own child.
I've seen MULTIPLE cases where children bite other children (sometimes younger children bitting older before/after care children) and make them bleed. Also, some children won't let go. I have a four year old ESL student like this. He learned through violence (he wasn't only a biter) he could get his way at home. One day I had enough of it and but him in time out for pushing a little girl on the floor for taking "his" seat. He bite me. Me being me, I pretended it didn't hurt and tried to pull him off. He twisted my skin and literally bit a piece of skin off of my hand. It wouldn't stop bleeding and I had to get stitches. Some children literally bite like a dog. I can only imagine how he could have hurt other children.
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Old 12-06-2015, 10:12 AM
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Bitting isn't normal or acceptable behavior, though. At the age children bite (have enough teeth to bite) they should be able to talk. I.e. Say "Mine!" and pull a toy away instead of getting their toy taken away and bitting back. Most children who bite are nonverbal and/or special needs. I'm noticed 9 times out of 10, people who are ok with bitting usually were or their children are/were. My old boss used to get pissed at me when I would say bitting isn't a good sign and I later found out her son was a bitter.
I haven't found this to necessarily true, in my experience. Children do lash out in frustration, even if they are able to say "Mine". That doesn't mean I have excused it, of course. When it has happened here, I have removed all opportunities for the child to bite again. They became my shadow after one biting incident.
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Old 12-06-2015, 12:08 PM
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I've seen MULTIPLE cases where children bite other children (sometimes younger children bitting older before/after care children) and make them bleed. Also, some children won't let go. I have a four year old ESL student like this. He learned through violence (he wasn't only a biter) he could get his way at home. One day I had enough of it and but him in time out for pushing a little girl on the floor for taking "his" seat. He bite me. Me being me, I pretended it didn't hurt and tried to pull him off. He twisted my skin and literally bit a piece of skin off of my hand. It wouldn't stop bleeding and I had to get stitches. Some children literally bite like a dog. I can only imagine how he could have hurt other children.
For future reference, "feed" the bite rather than pulling. If you push (gently!) towards the mouth most children and animals will release, but if you pull it can break the skin. I know that's not the most helpful thing now, though :/
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Old 12-06-2015, 12:35 PM
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You really see no difference between an adult hitting a child and a toddler hitting another toddler?
Being hit, kicked, shoved, pushed, bit or whatever is mean, violent behavior. Yes there is a difference in that we need to teach them differently, but to say "oh it is just a kid being a kid" is not acceptable. Abuse is abuse I don't care who or why someone is being bullied or abused it is still wrong and has to be stopped. When an adult says "oh well that's what kids do", the adult is neglecting the children involved. I am not saying that two toddlers KNOW that hitting or biting is wrong, but we have to put a stop to it and teach them better. If a child is getting "beat up" (bitten, hit, kicked whatever), it is abuse.
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Old 12-06-2015, 12:38 PM
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For future reference, "feed" the bite rather than pulling. If you push (gently!) towards the mouth most children and animals will release, but if you pull it can break the skin. I know that's not the most helpful thing now, though :/
That doesn't excuse the bite though, or take away the risk. And sometimes the bite itself breaks the skin, without being pulled. When we were kids, my neice who is ten months older than I was a biter. She bit all the time, just for attention. She broke my skin often. Of course then the way the parents handled it was "bite her back" but for one thing it didn't work and the other thing was I could never catch her anyway so she would run and she knew I couldn't catch her.
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Old 12-06-2015, 02:08 PM
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You really see no difference between an adult hitting a child and a toddler hitting another toddler?
Not in the act itself but in children it has to do with mastering impulse control and being able to stop and make the right choice.

Adults (most.. Lol!) have the capacity/maturity to do that.

BIG difference.
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Old 12-06-2015, 03:40 PM
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Not in the act itself but in children it has to do with mastering impulse control and being able to stop and make the right choice.

Adults (most.. Lol!) have the capacity/maturity to do that.

BIG difference.
Yes, this. But we as adults cannot allow it be continue over and over. (I know you aren't suggesting we should BC just clarifying my point).
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Old 12-06-2015, 04:05 PM
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Yes, this. But we as adults cannot allow it be continue over and over. (I know you aren't suggesting we should BC just clarifying my point).
I agree!

I think that 99% of all biting that happens in daycare (excluding the first time) is due to supervision issues.
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Old 12-07-2015, 11:12 AM
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I think that 99% of all biting that happens in daycare (excluding the first time) is due to supervision issues.
Totally agree and in a home daycare even more so. I have worked nearly exclusively with toddlers for over 5 years in a centre and in that time saw a LOT of toddlers (plus my toddler placements at other centres). I have only seen 1 toddler bite. That's it! ONE. I don't think biting is normal behavior. I think it is a learned response that is being perpetuated by the fact that there are no consequences. In a centre we had 1 teacher for 5 toddlers and in a home daycare the ratio is much lower. Once we figured out we had a biter we came up with strategies and reasons for why this biting behavior was happening and we nipped it in the bud. Once we nipped the biting in the bud (through shadowing and seperating mostly) the child started scratching so we put mittens on her daily.

Allowing another child to bite or scratch or otherwise bully another child is unacceptable and can have life long repercussions for the victim of that abuse.
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Old 12-07-2015, 06:04 PM
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I agree!

I think that 99% of all biting that happens in daycare (excluding the first time) is due to supervision issues.
Yup

One bite in 21 years of doing daycare. That one bite happened my first year. Never happened again.

Biting isn't normal if supervision is consistent and precise. Knowing pre biting ESCALATION is the key.
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Old 12-08-2015, 09:45 AM
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Abuse?? Toddler on toddler abuse?

I currently have 3 toddlers in my care. One has a problem with pushing. Pushes the other kids multiple times every single day (often for no apparent reason and sometimes really hard). I have another that hits. With his hands or he will just whack someone with whatever toy happens to be in his hand. The 3rd just likes to follow the others around and steal whatever they are playing with and run away. All of these things would certainly be considered abusive...if they weren't toddlers! But they are toddlers and these are all normal behaviors in a toddler. We have to teach them and work with them not to do these things but it doesn't happen over night. It takes time and patience.

Biting is also normal behavior for some toddlers. It is unusual, in my experience, that a child bites just occasionally. Either a kid is a biter or they're not. What makes one kid a biter but not another I don't know but it is what it is and it could just as easily be your child doing the biting. The child that bites another child is not being abusive to that child anymore than the child that hits or pushes another child. They are just being toddlers. They have yet to learn that these are not appropriate ways to handle themselves.

This child was bitten 4 times in 2 months. That is not excessive to me. A child that is going thru a biting phase and spends his/her day with other similarly aged children will likely try to bite multiple times every single day! If your child is comes home with 4 bites in a day or a week then yeah, your provider is not on top of the situation but if your going to put your toddler in a place with other toddlers they may come home with a bite now and then.

Biting is not a fun phase for anyone involved but it really isn't as big of a deal as some people make it out to be and it isn't so easy to stop. But, bites don't usually break the skin and even when they do it is highly unlikely to be serious or require any more attention then some TLC.

It could just as easily be your child doing the biting...What then?
It is lack of proper/adequate supervision. NO child deserves to be hurt, especially repeatedly, all in the name of a "phase".

Yes, children DO go through phases, but OUR job is to separate, identify triggers, and prevent injuries until the child gains enough self control to regulate their own behavior.

I don't tolerate any physical violence towards other children. I have a 3 strikes bite policy, but honestly after the first bite (or bite attempt) the child is so shadowed/supervised that it NEVER occurs again. Same with all other physical aggression. I also do not keep kids who don't quickly learn not to physically hurt others. I have an excellent reputation for safety.

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I agree!

I think that 99% of all biting that happens in daycare (excluding the first time) is due to supervision issues.
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