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  #101  
Old 06-04-2010, 04:33 PM
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Default to frustrated mommy...and everyone else

wow this was a heated discussion!!...and alot was said on both parts...

first off i am a mom of 4 kids (9-17 years old) and i will tell you they all needed and napped!!!

i am also a daycare provider IN AYLMER...Two 9 daycare kiddies...ages 20 months-5 years...AND ALL MY KIDDIES NAP OR AT LEAST REST...EACH DAY....

some days are harder than others...but THE GENRAL RULE IS IF THEY HAVE BEEN OUTSIDE ....THEY NAP....

WHEN THE CPE HAS BEEN IN DURING NAP TIME THEY ALWAYS COMMENT HOW WELL MY KIDDIES SLEEP....

I DO HAVE 1 LITTLE ONE (OFF TO SCHOOL THIS FALL) WHO FIGHTS HIS NAP AND WILL TRY AND DISTURB THE REST....HE IS MOVED TO ANOTHER AREA SO HE CAN NOT WAKE THE OTHERS...
EVEN HIM HE NEEDS A NAP OR IS WINNY....

as for $$$$ and holidays....YES IN QUEBEC WE CAN PUT IT INTO OUR CONTRACT....BUT THAT IS IF YOU ARE PRIVET...

ONCE YOU ARE SUBVENTED....THE PARENTS HAVE TO PAY THERE PORTION...BUT THE GOVERNMENT DOES NOT PAY THERE PORTION....CURRENTLY WE ARE FIGHTING THIS...WE ARE WITH A UNION.....AND ARE WORKING ON MAKING THESE CHANGES...

GOOD LUCK WITH YOUR SITUATION.....AND I AM SAD TO HERE THAT YOU HAVE HAD TO HAVE 2 KIDS IN 2 DIFFRENT DAYCARES...ESPECIALY THAT YOU ARE RUNNING AROUND TILL 6 PM...NOT EASY ON ANYONE!!

Last edited by Michael; 04-08-2011 at 01:53 PM.
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  #102  
Old 06-07-2010, 03:48 AM
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Default Napping

That is right, I forgot that the government doesn't pay their portion.

Both kids are in the same daycare now, that is why I am fighting so hard to keep them there.

The lady went on vacation for two weeks, and we put the kids in another daycare temporarily. My 3.5 year old slept very well, and now that she is back at the normal daycare she is sleeping again. It has been two weeks and she had one day where she was resistant to sleep. The lady says she has to stay in the room a long time with her, but I think she has gotten used to it now.

She is sleeping very well at home, although we have an odd day where she will play in her room rather than sleeping. I just worry that if she is resisting nap now, what will happen when she gets closer to 4. Hopefully by then she will be more emotionally mature and will be able to rest quietly without waking the others.

I also notice the days she complained that my little one didn't nap were rainy days where they didn't get outside. She is very good about taking them outside in the summer though. They walk 10 blocks to a park almost every day, and since my daughter is the oldest she walks while the other kids ride in the stroller.
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  #103  
Old 06-07-2010, 05:43 AM
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WOW!!! I can't believe this! We are cleaning up after the daycare children- sweeping, doing dishes, cleaning off tables, highchairs, putting away toys, washing bibs, blankets, sometimes clothes, towels, washclothes, getting afternoon activity together, running copies, the list goes on and on with everything!!!!
Ditto, Ditto, Ditto!! But you forgot about PAPERWORK!! There is an infinite amount of paperwork that goes along with running any business, especially daycare. Just the food program that I am on, costs me 30-40 minutes a day because I have to report who I fed and what I fed them, each and every night. If they show up on Tuesday and Monday's meals are not recorded, I don't get reimbursement for that. Then there's taxes (keeping track of everything everyday so it doesn't take a week to do the taxes at tax time), reporting to DHS, reading updated laws, revising contracts and policies, etc. Then there's the curriculum planning! Just try to turn on a computer with the kids running about. And if you're open 12+ hours a day, then by the time you do the "housework" and paperwork after hours, you have spent 16 hours on daycare and ZERO on your own family.
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  #104  
Old 06-07-2010, 11:27 AM
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I am a parent of a 4 year old and to be honest, I am appalled at the comments made by some daycare providers on this message board. Wow. Ms. Sue: "It's not the child with the issue- it's the parents - as usual". How presumptuous and wrong you are. I am a teacher, and we are taught that the parents are the first and most important "teachers" of their children.

My son, even though he does not need a nap would always nap given the opportunity-- placed in a quiet dark room...of course he would. So would I. And this was the case at his in-home daycare. I spoke with the provider, whom he loved, and she was as stubborn as you all, and said all kids must rest for those two hours. Since he was the oldest child at daycare, she was UNWILLING to make an exception for him. And since he regularly fell asleep, she did not listen to me, and ASSUMED that I was WRONG and she was RIGHT.

When he was at home, he never napped and was fine. He would go to bed at a reasonable hour (8:00) and wake up around 7:00. When he would go to daycare and had a nap, he consistently said "I'm not tired! I'm not tired!" at night and would be up until 10:30. This was not due to my LACK of parenting skills or ability. He was TRULY not tired.

Turns out, I pulled him from his daycare which he loved for this VERY reason. He is now at Montessori preschool and flourishing. They do not require a nap and he is doing lovely, on a regular schedule and learning/playing for two extra hours instead of being forced to nap. I am so happy I made this decision.

Parents know best. And if you are unwilling to meet a reasonable request in the best interest of the child then you shouldn't be practicing daycare.
AMEN!!!!!! I am a home Daycare Provider, and I do NOT force naps on those who do not benefit from them. The little ones nap in bedrooms and the bigger ones play quiet games or visit my play yard. Why is that so hard? Why must Providers be so regimented and FORCE naps upon kids? Every kid is different. They have different needs. Providers, of all people, should recognize and respect this. Let the kids be individuals. Yes, there are exceptions. There are kids who will try to refuse, but they really do need one or else they are hellions. I'm speaking of the ones who genuinely do not benefit from a nap, and in fact stay up late because of it. It's not healthy. I so wish Providers would recognize this. As far as your break, I'm sure you have times where kids are playing independently when you can sit down with a cup of tea for 10 minutes. Or when most of them are napping and just your non-nappers are up, I'm sure you can find some time to clean your kitchen. The non-nappers are old enough to play for a time while you get your chores done. I just don't get it, and I never will.
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  #105  
Old 06-07-2010, 11:44 AM
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AMEN!!!!!! I am a home Daycare Provider, and I do NOT force naps on those who do not benefit from them. The little ones nap in bedrooms and the bigger ones play quiet games or visit my play yard. Why is that so hard? Why must Providers be so regimented and FORCE naps upon kids? Every kid is different. They have different needs. Providers, of all people, should recognize and respect this. Let the kids be individuals. Yes, there are exceptions. There are kids who will try to refuse, but they really do need one or else they are hellions. I'm speaking of the ones who genuinely do not benefit from a nap, and in fact stay up late because of it. It's not healthy. I so wish Providers would recognize this. As far as your break, I'm sure you have times where kids are playing independently when you can sit down with a cup of tea for 10 minutes. Or when most of them are napping and just your non-nappers are up, I'm sure you can find some time to clean your kitchen. The non-nappers are old enough to play for a time while you get your chores done. I just don't get it, and I never will.
Why are you assuming a provider would force a child to nap? I don't provide care to children who don't need a full afternoon nap. I'm not FORCING anyone. As soon as they have outgrown nap time they leave.
The "individuals" and "exceptions" don't attend my day care.

I "recognize" that there are children of ALL ages.. from birth to age five that don't need sleep. I hear that all the time from the parents. I BELIEVE them and I BELIEVE you when you say it. I agree. I just don't provide day care to those kids. See?

I won't accept a ten minute break here and there. I want a full two and a half hour break every day in my twelve hour day. I "need" that. I'm an "individual" and an "exception" that I have to have a break. Why is it that you can understand that a child may need "individual" and "exception" but you don't believe the adult may need the same consideration?

I say "let the providers be individuals".
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  #106  
Old 06-07-2010, 12:02 PM
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AMEN!!!!!! I am a home Daycare Provider, and I do NOT force naps on those who do not benefit from them. The little ones nap in bedrooms and the bigger ones play quiet games or visit my play yard. Why is that so hard? Why must Providers be so regimented and FORCE naps upon kids? Every kid is different. They have different needs. Providers, of all people, should recognize and respect this. Let the kids be individuals. Yes, there are exceptions. There are kids who will try to refuse, but they really do need one or else they are hellions. I'm speaking of the ones who genuinely do not benefit from a nap, and in fact stay up late because of it. It's not healthy. I so wish Providers would recognize this. As far as your break, I'm sure you have times where kids are playing independently when you can sit down with a cup of tea for 10 minutes. Or when most of them are napping and just your non-nappers are up, I'm sure you can find some time to clean your kitchen. The non-nappers are old enough to play for a time while you get your chores done. I just don't get it, and I never will.
I would love to send non-nappers out into the yard to play but that's against licensing regs here. I have to be on the same floor as sleeping children AT ALL TIMES. That means no going to clean my kitchen for me so I get to do that while the kids eat. And obviously kids can't go outside if I can't directly supervise them.

I'd love to let them play quietly in the playroom while the nappers napped. I've tried. It doesn't work.

I don't think any of us who require a quiet time during the day are "forcing" kids who don't benefit from a nap to nap. We are enforcing a quiet time, where kids need to lay down and rest, NOT necessarily sleep. It is in my licensing regs that I must allow a quiet environment away from any activity for children under 5 to nap for 2 hours.

Please don't jump down everyone's throat because they require a naptime. If you don't, great, that works for you. It's NOT what would work for a lot of us.

If the parents aren't happy with it, they can move along to the next provider who don't have little ones who NEED their sleep.
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  #107  
Old 06-07-2010, 12:09 PM
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This is the song that never ends.......
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  #108  
Old 06-07-2010, 01:13 PM
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This is the song that never ends.......
Yes, it goes on and on, my friend.......
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  #109  
Old 06-07-2010, 04:01 PM
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OK, Joyce, it's fine for you to choose to let your kids skip naptime if you'd like, but it's my choice to NOT let them skip their naptime. They don't have to sleep. No one is forced to sleep, they just have to lay quietly. As far as letting kids go outside to play during nap, that is not something that I let even older kids do on their own. I always have my daycare kids in my line of sight and I never let them play outside without supervision. I don't have a single parent complaint regarding naptime policies. I don't have any kids that don't nap at naptime either. By the time naptime rolls around, they are all so tired that they are trying to go down for nap before it's even naptime yet. Also, some states have a required rest time for children under a certain age. My kids that are under 6 years old are required to have a rest time on a daily basis. No exceptions, no special cases.
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  #110  
Old 06-08-2010, 11:15 PM
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Why are you assuming a provider would force a child to nap? I don't provide care to children who don't need a full afternoon nap. I'm not FORCING anyone. As soon as they have outgrown nap time they leave.
The "individuals" and "exceptions" don't attend my day care.

I "recognize" that there are children of ALL ages.. from birth to age five that don't need sleep. I hear that all the time from the parents. I BELIEVE them and I BELIEVE you when you say it. I agree. I just don't provide day care to those kids. See?

I won't accept a ten minute break here and there. I want a full two and a half hour break every day in my twelve hour day. I "need" that. I'm an "individual" and an "exception" that I have to have a break. Why is it that you can understand that a child may need "individual" and "exception" but you don't believe the adult may need the same consideration?

I say "let the providers be individuals".
This wasn't directed at you. Sorry if you thought so. Obviously if the nap issue is covered in your interview and you only accept those who NEED the nap, you are not forcing anything. I feel that some do force it, however. That is based on various comments I have read here over the months. Nobody specific. As to the issue of our breaks, I'm sorry you don't agree, but I just think this is our job and little breaks here and there should be sufficient. Yes, every adult is an individual and therefore has different needs than others, but we are adults and should be able to handle a 10-hr day with several small breaks and downtime. It's just my opinion. Thanks for listening!
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  #111  
Old 06-08-2010, 11:26 PM
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This wasn't directed at you. Sorry if you thought so. Obviously if the nap issue is covered in your interview and you only accept those who NEED the nap, you are not forcing anything. I feel that some do force it, however. That is based on various comments I have read here over the months. Nobody specific. As to the issue of our breaks, I'm sorry you don't agree, but I just think this is our job and little breaks here and there should be sufficient. Yes, every adult is an individual and therefore has different needs than others, but we are adults and should be able to handle a 10-hr day with several small breaks and downtime. It's just my opinion. Thanks for listening!
i agree - there are plenty of times for breaks throughout the day. if you were working outside of the home would you be able to do your laundry or clean the kitchen, OR have a 2-2.5 or 3 hour break even if you work 12 hours? NOOO!

i woke up a little boy the other day because he had slept 2.5 hours and skipped breakfast. his mom said i could've let him sleep and i told her i didn't want him staying up all night. parents know when you let them sleep. my son hardly goes to his grandma's anymore cus it's OBVIOUS after he's been to her house - he wants to stay up all night. youre right about there being providers that force naps - and there are ones that get downright mean about it because they think that's their break time. i've always heard that the kids don't have to sleep if they lay quietly, look at a book, etc., but i've never seen it. what i have seen is kids being told to go to sleep and threatened if they don't.
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  #112  
Old 09-15-2010, 02:45 PM
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I have a 4 year old who has to lay on a mat for 1 and a half hours at her preschool/day care center. She can't get her little body to rest/sleep. The teachers reward the resting sleeping children with stickers. So every day my daughter comes home crying thinking she did something wrong because she gets no reward. Every child is different. To force a 4 year old to lay on a mat for that long doing nothing is bizarre to me. Could someone please post the Maryland state regulation that says child care workers must force a child to lay on a mat for 2 hours.

I think I read that regulation at one point and it states that a child care center must offer a nap area and a rest period but it is up to the child if he/she wants to nap or rest. I understand the need for quiet time but please this is crazy the way you think you can force children to sleep or sit still on a mat when their bodies are not able to do so.
Stop and really think about the power struggle you are creating. The feeling of shame you are creating in these children when you are telling them to do this and if they don't something is wrong with them.
You are interrupting the regulation all wrong. This regulation was to support and understand the needs of the child not to give the care giver a break.

Read and reread the regulation with each individual child in mind. Then please, please listen to the parents who knows more about their own child then the person in government that wrote a regulation that is being misused.
"Quite time" is needed for both provider and children being cared for however your child should also be rewarded for being quite during this time also. I agree making every child sleep is a power trip and only creates more exhaughtion for the child and provider. Not allowing other good and rewarded options is sad to see for children whom have outgrown a routine nap.
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  #113  
Old 09-24-2010, 03:00 AM
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I am a parent of a 4 year old and to be honest, I am appalled at the comments made by some daycare providers on this message board. Wow. Ms. Sue: "It's not the child with the issue- it's the parents - as usual". How presumptuous and wrong you are. I am a teacher, and we are taught that the parents are the first and most important "teachers" of their children.

My son, even though he does not need a nap would always nap given the opportunity-- placed in a quiet dark room...of course he would. So would I. And this was the case at his in-home daycare. I spoke with the provider, whom he loved, and she was as stubborn as you all, and said all kids must rest for those two hours. Since he was the oldest child at daycare, she was UNWILLING to make an exception for him. And since he regularly fell asleep, she did not listen to me, and ASSUMED that I was WRONG and she was RIGHT.

When he was at home, he never napped and was fine. He would go to bed at a reasonable hour (8:00) and wake up around 7:00. When he would go to daycare and had a nap, he consistently said "I'm not tired! I'm not tired!" at night and would be up until 10:30. This was not due to my LACK of parenting skills or ability. He was TRULY not tired.

Turns out, I pulled him from his daycare which he loved for this VERY reason. He is now at Montessori preschool and flourishing. They do not require a nap and he is doing lovely, on a regular schedule and learning/playing for two extra hours instead of being forced to nap. I am so happy I made this decision.

Parents know best. And if you are unwilling to meet a reasonable request in the best interest of the child then you shouldn't be practicing daycare.
Sounds just like my son, except the preschool/childcare was trying to get my son to nap 3 hours. He is now in Montessori too and loves it. I am finding that good preschool teachers/caregivers are difficult to find.
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  #114  
Old 09-28-2010, 02:23 PM
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Default Kicked out of daycare because 3.5 year old wont sleep

Well, it has finally happened. My 3.5 year old (4 in Jan) has been kicked out of her daycare because after 2 hours of laying on her mat, she just can't fall asleep. Are there any subsidized daycares in Aylmer that do not require their children to sleep? I also have an almost 2 year old. I would like to keep them in the same place, but I guess that might be impossible. I am so discouraged right now. I've called one place on magarderie, but there was only 1 available at the moment. She hasn't given us a time limit, but she is getting a 5 month old baby soon, and I am sure she is anxious to be rid of the older child. She really wants to keep the baby of course, since she loves babies. Please let me know if anybody has any space. We are near Champlain Park.
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  #115  
Old 09-30-2010, 02:39 PM
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I understand most of you daycare providers need "a break" from the kids, but children should not be taught, raised, like a cookie cutout, I too have a 4 1/2 year old who does fall asleep at her preschool who is allowed to sleep 2 hours and then when we put her in bed at 8:30 every night (with no tv by the way as we don't allow any toys, tv. No stimulants in their room only in their playroom) she will sit in her bed for an hour quietly and just can not fall asleep. When I have her she will sleep for an hour and then she goes to be at 8:30 the minute she hits her head on the pillow. She also wakes up no matter what time she goes to sleep by the way at 7:00 am like clock work.

At this age every pediatrician I have talked to agrees each child is different and should not be treated the same, so just because a daycare provided needs "a break" is not in my book reason to make a child sleep for 2 hours, it is not healthy, there bodies no what they need. To assume it is the parents fault or just because other 4 year olds do it your way, doesn't mean it is right!

Last edited by Michael; 09-30-2010 at 02:48 PM.
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  #116  
Old 09-30-2010, 07:17 PM
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i didn't make the kids nap at a certain time - or at all if they didn't want/need to. i only had 4 kids though so i didn't have to run like a "center." i was able to be flexible with meal times and pretty much cater to each child's/parent's individual needs. it was something i wanted to do because i got frustrated when my own children were in daycare and were forced to nap or came home starving. i also didn't go outside if it was too cold because i didn't have to abide by the daycare standards. of course, i charged more than the avg. rate in my area because in order to do this, i couldn't keep as many children, but the parents i had valued the way i operated so it wasn't a problem. if cost is a concern though -you are probably going to be looking into centers where they have a lot of children at one time. when that's the case, they aren't going to fool with one kid who doesn't want to nap. it's usually someone getting paid minimum wage and it's a miracle they even show up.
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  #117  
Old 10-05-2010, 09:04 AM
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Cool Tell them to get a new provider if they dont like what you do

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i run a family daycare and in the state of maryland it is a requirement that the children get a 2 hour nap/rest period. I give all the kids a nap from 12:30-2:30 -ish. I have one parent who told her 4 year old, not to nap at my house anymore. I do not insist that she sleep, but lay down quietly. She is allowed to read books, etc., as long as she is quiet for the other kids. She is the 1st one asleep everyday. She falls asleep within 5 minutes of laying down. Her parents have always allowed her to stay awake at night till 10:30-11:30 from the time she was an infant. Now they think she is staying awake that late because of the nap. I need to add, she is only here part-time, but goes to bed everynight that late. Every child i have ever watched including my own, have taken naps and still go to bed by 8-8:30. I feel that the parents are blaming me and my nap policy for their child not going to bed at night, when i feel it is their lack of dicipline on getting their child on a decent schedule. Any opinions would be appreciated, however, with all the new centers opening around us, i cannot afford to tick people off. In my area, alot of home providers are struggling and i know they can go just about anywhere.
you is doing what you have to run your place i use to work in a daycare and the parents blam you for ever thing they do. Look you have to tell the parent that the rules is that ever child most take a nape ever day or just dont move read a book. Look if they dont like your rules then they need to find a new provider because you dont need know body to be tick off ever time they pick up they kids just dont for get you have feeling just like them. My 3 kids take naps ever day and still going to bed ever night on time that parent just wanted to say some thing because kids can take a nap and still go to bed on time
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  #118  
Old 10-06-2010, 06:32 AM
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you is doing what you have to run your place i use to work in a daycare and the parents blam you for ever thing they do. Look you have to tell the parent that the rules is that ever child most take a nape ever day or just dont move read a book. Look if they dont like your rules then they need to find a new provider because you dont need know body to be tick off ever time they pick up they kids just dont for get you have feeling just like them. My 3 kids take naps ever day and still going to bed ever night on time that parent just wanted to say some thing because kids can take a nap and still go to bed on time
Ditto I agree with you on this one
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  #119  
Old 10-10-2010, 09:25 PM
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Wow as a parent my fears about how childcare providers assume they know more about your child than you do have been confirmed. I have gone rounds and rounds with three daycares insisting that my 4 1/2 year old no longer needs to nap but I am only his mother what do I know. Now before you all say I just don't know how to put my child to bed you should all know on the weekends when he hasn't taken a nap I HAVE ABSOLUTELY NO PROBLEM PUTTING MY CHILD TO BED, he is in bed by 8 no problem. His current center has a nap time from 1-3 or when the wake up. 2 hours is way too long and 3 is way too late to be waking up. I honestly would have no problem with a 30 min nap at say noon but anything more than that is excessive. Just because a child will go to sleep doesn't mean they need the sleep. If you put me on a cot and turned off the lights in the middle of the day at my work I would nod off too, and you know what I would be kept up when it was time for me to go to sleep. For those of you that won't wake up a child, shame on you I too have arrived at 4pm to find my child just woken up because he fell asleep at the end of naptime, gosh he must have finally nodded off out of the bordom of expecting a 4 yr old to sit quietly in the dark for 2 hours and "read". I guess those of you that require by contract that you get a 2 hour break in the middle of the day better stick to running your own daycare because no other jobs out there get to take 2 hours off in the middle of theday. Also if you would like to know as a parent what annoys us about daycare workers is that somehow you act like we work for you and we are to do as you say, well I hate to tell you YOU WORK FOR ME FOLLOW THE RULES I HAVE SET FORTH FOR MY CHILD OR I WILL FIRE YOU
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  #120  
Old 10-11-2010, 07:55 AM
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Wow as a parent my fears about how childcare providers assume they know more about your child than you do have been confirmed. I have gone rounds and rounds with three daycares insisting that my 4 1/2 year old no longer needs to nap but I am only his mother what do I know. Now before you all say I just don't know how to put my child to bed you should all know on the weekends when he hasn't taken a nap I HAVE ABSOLUTELY NO PROBLEM PUTTING MY CHILD TO BED, he is in bed by 8 no problem. His current center has a nap time from 1-3 or when the wake up. 2 hours is way too long and 3 is way too late to be waking up. I honestly would have no problem with a 30 min nap at say noon but anything more than that is excessive. Just because a child will go to sleep doesn't mean they need the sleep. If you put me on a cot and turned off the lights in the middle of the day at my work I would nod off too, and you know what I would be kept up when it was time for me to go to sleep. For those of you that won't wake up a child, shame on you I too have arrived at 4pm to find my child just woken up because he fell asleep at the end of naptime, gosh he must have finally nodded off out of the bordom of expecting a 4 yr old to sit quietly in the dark for 2 hours and "read". I guess those of you that require by contract that you get a 2 hour break in the middle of the day better stick to running your own daycare because no other jobs out there get to take 2 hours off in the middle of theday. Also if you would like to know as a parent what annoys us about daycare workers is that somehow you act like we work for you and we are to do as you say, well I hate to tell you YOU WORK FOR ME FOLLOW THE RULES I HAVE SET FORTH FOR MY CHILD OR I WILL FIRE YOU
Well, first, let me say, there are providers out there who WILL work with you on your child's schedule. However, YOU need to find the provider who, from the beginning, agrees to not nap your child. Don't wait until he has been there for awhile and then complain about it. I am one of those providers who would be willing to work with a parent on this, but only if I am asked and treated in a respectful manner.

Now, to an extent, I agree that you should be able to make some of the decisions for your child....especially something like sleep schedule, within reason. However, this comment "well I hate to tell you YOU WORK FOR ME FOLLOW THE RULES I HAVE SET FORTH FOR MY CHILD OR I WILL FIRE YOU" Is WAY off base. You are not your providers employer, and you do not have the right to dictate every "rule" that you set forth....that would be completely unreasonable. What if we did this for EVERY parent who walked through our doors? We would go absolutley crazy trying to meet the demands of numerous parents who do not understand the dynamics of group care. We would then end up out of business, because it would drive us to the point of hating our work.

If you want a caregiver for your child that strictly adheres to "the rules that you set forth" then I suggest you find a Nanny who will work in your home. Whom you will also pay taxes for, unemployment insurance for, workers comp for. THEN you are an employer.
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  #121  
Old 10-11-2010, 08:07 AM
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Well, first, let me say, there are providers out there who WILL work with you on your child's schedule. However, YOU need to find the provider who, from the beginning, agrees to not nap your child. Don't wait until he has been there for awhile and then complain about it. I am one of those providers who would be willing to work with a parent on this, but only if I am asked and treated in a respectful manner.

Now, to an extent, I agree that you should be able to make some of the decisions for your child....especially something like sleep schedule, within reason. However, this comment "well I hate to tell you YOU WORK FOR ME FOLLOW THE RULES I HAVE SET FORTH FOR MY CHILD OR I WILL FIRE YOU" Is WAY off base. You are not your providers employer, and you do not have the right to dictate every "rule" that you set forth....that would be completely unreasonable. What if we did this for EVERY parent who walked through our doors? We would go absolutley crazy trying to meet the demands of numerous parents who do not understand the dynamics of group care. We would then end up out of business, because it would drive us to the point of hating our work.

If you want a caregiver for your child that strictly adheres to "the rules that you set forth" then I suggest you find a Nanny who will work in your home. Whom you will also pay taxes for, unemployment insurance for, workers comp for. THEN you are an employer.
What Crystal said.

Furthermore, most states do have rules stating that all children MUST have a rest period during the day. Even for school agers. Most (all?) states even mandate how long that rest period is to be. In my state, we HAVE to provide that quiet time, but children are NOT required to sleep. Kids that don't sleep (in my care) have other options--books, puzzles, coloring quietly, watching a show (the only TV time we have usually), and possibly other quiet options depending on the age of the child in question. If you don't like the options your center is using, find another one. Centers, on the whole, tend to be a lot more inflexible in their options than, say, a family child care.

We (as a family child care provider) do NOT get a "two hour break" in the middle of the day. During that time, we are eating our own lunch (maybe), cleaning, preparing the afternoon's activities, doing paperwork, lesson and activity planning, cleaning, documenting the morning's activities, cleaning, and maybe, if everyone naps the whole time (which is rare) we have time to catch five minutes to ourselves to kick back and relax.

If you truly want everything in your control, get a nanny. Or stay home with your child yourself.
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  #122  
Old 10-13-2010, 03:35 AM
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Cool 4 year old nap time

Most experts say that a child can definitely do without a nap by age 4. I am an school administrator, who has worked in schools, daycares, and after-school programs and I can safely say that I agree with the experts on this one. Daycare providers and schools are in existence to assist the parent in either care and/or education of the child. I understand that daycare providers need breaks because they usually work at home alone. But mandating that a child must go to sleep is not assisting the parent when they need to get the child to sleep at 8:00pm for at least an 11 hr. sleep period. If you leave a child down for more than an hour of course he will fall asleep eventually but that could be because of pure boredom. I believe that any child after age 4 who is taking more than a 30 nap is being set up for being lazy later in life. So if your child sleeps 11 hrs. at night and then take a 2 hour nap during the day, then you should question that parenting also. Because after all we are training the children to function in the world that we live in. not some make believe world where they can sleep half their lives.

I now send my 4 year old to 5 hr preschool program in town and he complain of having to sleep right after meals he says that it makes him feel bad. Of course these teachers also give rewards for the ones that go to sleep. I cannot see the sense in this program. The school opens at 8:30 and the children start routines at 9:00am. Somewhere between10-12 they have a 45 Min play on the playground and eat lunch and are down for a nap until I pick him up at 2:00pm. And the saddest thing about this program is that there are two teachers per class. Everyday he struggles to go to sleep and he really ends up not going to sleep until 11:00 and he moans and groans the whole time because he wants to do something. And it is even worst if it not his karate or soccer day. My poor baby much rather go to the gym with me in their daycare then to the preschool program. I am thankful I have the flexibility with my work to change my schedule around and work out a better plan for him and so I try to pick him up before nap. This ensures that he is fed, showered and in the bed by 8:00pm without any hassle.

I believe if a child get plenty of exercise and activity during the day, that it does not matter how bad the parenting is at home that child will be down for the count by 7:45 unless his home environment have people hanging from the chandeliers. And I have know cases where this was true.

So Daycare providers please stop forcing sleep time for children 3.5 and 4. Let's start acclimating them to the real world. Change do not happen over night. We as parents and school administrator and their future teachers need your help.
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  #123  
Old 03-01-2011, 11:39 PM
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Default Is it common to ot even provide books during the two hour nap?

I find this whole thread fascinating and very relevant to what I'm going through right now. Though I understand the need to require rest in the preschools, my five year old hasn't napped in two years and really needs to have provisions made for him at naptime.

I was horrified to learn that during this two hour required rest time at his preschool, he wasn't even allowed to read books because it apparently caused many of the other kids to want books and therefore disrupted the class. (though, only about 40% of the kids in the class nap). This is a large daycare facility with smaller rooms and 16 kids crammed on the floor and forced to rest for two hours. When I enrolled, I was told there would be accommodations made for those children who do not nap. (Like taking them to quiet room). But they have since stopped that because they don't have the staff to take care of the separate group of kids and still cover lunch and break time.

The school is now agreeing to allowing the non-nappers to have a book after 60 minutes. I still think that is WAY too long. My poor son is beginning to hate school because of this. He's too young to start not wanting to go to school!

I guess I will have no choice but to pull him from this school, which is so sad because I really love their program and convenience in location. Such a frustrating situation.
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  #124  
Old 03-02-2011, 05:58 AM
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I find this whole thread fascinating and very relevant to what I'm going through right now. Though I understand the need to require rest in the preschools, my five year old hasn't napped in two years and really needs to have provisions made for him at naptime.

I was horrified to learn that during this two hour required rest time at his preschool, he wasn't even allowed to read books because it apparently caused many of the other kids to want books and therefore disrupted the class. (though, only about 40% of the kids in the class nap). This is a large daycare facility with smaller rooms and 16 kids crammed on the floor and forced to rest for two hours. When I enrolled, I was told there would be accommodations made for those children who do not nap. (Like taking them to quiet room). But they have since stopped that because they don't have the staff to take care of the separate group of kids and still cover lunch and break time.

The school is now agreeing to allowing the non-nappers to have a book after 60 minutes. I still think that is WAY too long. My poor son is beginning to hate school because of this. He's too young to start not wanting to go to school!

I guess I will have no choice but to pull him from this school, which is so sad because I really love their program and convenience in location. Such a frustrating situation.
This is a super old thread but I am going to respond.
First, a 5-year old would not be required to nap at my house. They would be given quiet activities to do at nap time completely away from the younger ones. This would be the case as long as they can play quietly and independently. If this is not the case, then they have to put toys away and read books only. Anyone under 5 though requires a rest period here. I don't have it as a written rule but I do my best to weed out the non-nappers during the interview process. If I find later that a child doesn't nap, they still have to lay and rest. And yes, in my house they might have to lay up to an hour on occasion. Through trial and error I've learned not to let any child up until the last child has fallen asleep. This can take anywhere from 40-min to an hour some days. I do this for the exact reason that you stated - if the others see one kid doing something other than resting - they will ALL want to do it and no one will nap. Toddlers and peschoolers who have not had a nap are not a fun bunch.

Many people/facilities will SAY they make accommodations but won't actually do it. They may want to but can't due to staffing or other concerns. Since your son is 5, I am going to guess that he just missed the cutoff age to start school this year. If you and your son like all the other aspects of this preschool then I would consider staying and dealing with it until he starts kindergarten. It's only a couple more months. If there are other things that you don't like about the preschool then pull him.
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Old 03-02-2011, 10:16 AM
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This is a super old thread but I am going to respond.
First, a 5-year old would not be required to nap at my house. They would be given quiet activities to do at nap time completely away from the younger ones. This would be the case as long as they can play quietly and independently. If this is not the case, then they have to put toys away and read books only. Anyone under 5 though requires a rest period here. I don't have it as a written rule but I do my best to weed out the non-nappers during the interview process. If I find later that a child doesn't nap, they still have to lay and rest. And yes, in my house they might have to lay up to an hour on occasion. Through trial and error I've learned not to let any child up until the last child has fallen asleep. This can take anywhere from 40-min to an hour some days. I do this for the exact reason that you stated - if the others see one kid doing something other than resting - they will ALL want to do it and no one will nap. Toddlers and peschoolers who have not had a nap are not a fun bunch.

Many people/facilities will SAY they make accommodations but won't actually do it. They may want to but can't due to staffing or other concerns. Since your son is 5, I am going to guess that he just missed the cutoff age to start school this year. If you and your son like all the other aspects of this preschool then I would consider staying and dealing with it until he starts kindergarten. It's only a couple more months. If there are other things that you don't like about the preschool then pull him.
Thanks for the response. I'm struggling with the decision to bother changing schools for just a few months and your feedback helps. Yes, he *just* turned five so he starts Kindergarten in the fall. There are little things here and there that trouble me about the pre-school (ie lack of good communication to the parents) but nothing major. And that I feel they told me all the great things they do at the school just to sell me on it, but in reality, it doesn't work well for their business. Therefore the children suffer at naptime to accommodate for the teacher's break time.

And what I struggle with is that here in the Bay Area, CA, there is such a large number of offerings that I know I could easily find something more nurturing for him. But I'm afraid the change for him might not be worth it. But my heart breaks just picturing him starring at the ceiling all that time.
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  #126  
Old 03-02-2011, 01:19 PM
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Default nap time is not break time, it is torture to make a none sleeping child lie

Honestly -

I have horrible memories of this as a child myself. It is against state regulations in as many states as I felt like checking - quiet time, yes, making a child who is awake lie down more than 30 minutes - illegal and abusive.

Further-

Break time is when you have an assistant come in and cover - one who is background checked and tested. If you are self employed and don't cover yourself for breaks, that is simply unwise- and you should not punish innocent children or cheat their parents for it.

Cleaning and maintenance and cooking dinner are not what you are being paid for. You are being paid to care for children - those who need a 2 hour nap and those who don't.
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  #127  
Old 03-02-2011, 08:34 PM
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Honestly -

I have horrible memories of this as a child myself. It is against state regulations in as many states as I felt like checking - quiet time, yes, making a child who is awake lie down more than 30 minutes - illegal and abusive.

Further-

Break time is when you have an assistant come in and cover - one who is background checked and tested. If you are self employed and don't cover yourself for breaks, that is simply unwise- and you should not punish innocent children or cheat their parents for it.

Cleaning and maintenance and cooking dinner are not what you are being paid for. You are being paid to care for children - those who need a 2 hour nap and those who don't.
Punish children? Cheat their parents? Call it what you want to call it...this is how we do it here. My parents know how I run things here and have no problem with it. At present, all of my dckids are nappers so I am not faced with this issue.

And yes, cleaning and maintenance and cooking dinner IS what I am being paid for. In order for the children that I care for to remain healthy and safe I must clean and sanitize my home. I must do maintanance to keep it in good order and repair so that no one gets hurt. I must cook healthy, balanced dinners that are often served as lunch to the daycare kids the next day.

You should consider registering. I believe that I have seen quite a few of your unregistered posts tonight and it seems you are just stirring the pot.
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  #128  
Old 03-03-2011, 09:32 PM
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Default The issue for me is about depriving books during nap

Well, I registered and I was the one who posted #123 & #125. I fully understand the need for Daycare workers to have their breaks and to take time to catch up. Gosh, as a Mom, I sometimes stick the kids in front of the TV for 30 minutes just to try and do housework too.

My only concern is that my child is left for a full hour (a lot of times it was TWO hours) deprived of any books or activities as to not cause a disruption to any other kids who were either sleeping, or to discourage the non-nappers to chat and play. I just find that a full hour of doing NOTHING is too excessive and not developmentally appropriate. I would ask if there are any adults out there who could stand laying on a floor mat and starring at a ceiling for a full hour. Now imagine what that is like for a four/five year old when time passes so much slower for them.

I know now this school is not the right fit for our family. What's unfortunate is we were told non-nappers would be given quiet activities to do when we enrolled.
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  #129  
Old 03-04-2011, 06:03 AM
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I know now this school is not the right fit for our family. What's unfortunate is we were told non-nappers would be given quiet activities to do when we enrolled.
I am pleased to see you register.

I think if a parent knows the provider's method and agrees to it/with it, there should be no debate. If the caregiver is not doing what you contracted for/agreed too, you have every right to be dissatisfied.
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  #130  
Old 03-04-2011, 08:43 AM
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Well, I registered and I was the one who posted #123 & #125. I fully understand the need for Daycare workers to have their breaks and to take time to catch up. Gosh, as a Mom, I sometimes stick the kids in front of the TV for 30 minutes just to try and do housework too.

My only concern is that my child is left for a full hour (a lot of times it was TWO hours) deprived of any books or activities as to not cause a disruption to any other kids who were either sleeping, or to discourage the non-nappers to chat and play. I just find that a full hour of doing NOTHING is too excessive and not developmentally appropriate. I would ask if there are any adults out there who could stand laying on a floor mat and starring at a ceiling for a full hour. Now imagine what that is like for a four/five year old when time passes so much slower for them.

I know now this school is not the right fit for our family. What's unfortunate is we were told non-nappers would be given quiet activities to do when we enrolled.
Glad to see your register.

Did you consider offering to pay for a staff assistant for him during nap? If you went to the Director and said that you would fully pay for a staff assistant I think you would be met with a hug and a "when do you want to start".
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  #131  
Old 03-07-2011, 01:39 AM
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Frustrated Mommy, I feel really horrible that you say this provider "hates" toddlers and is always complaining about your child Maybe your child isn't sleeping because the atmosphere isn't comfortable at all for her? Unless you are exaagerating daycare lady's feelings, I would not want my child anywhere that she is hated, simply because of her age!
I completely agree and kept reading to see who would finally say it. In my opinion it is irresponsible of the parent to put the child in an environment that does not like the child. Period. The provider was direct with the parent about their preference for younger children. Now the parent is complaining that she prefers her 18 month old?! The daycare lady told the parent this fact UP FRONT! The parent is lucky this is the only issue the 3 year old is having. How could you put your child in an environment that does not like her?! This is your kid! Why are parents so desensitized?!

I am a parent and a provider. I have 2 boys, 4 and 2. My 4 year old goes to half day pre-k everyday, comes home at 12, eats lunch and then naps from 1-3. The bedtime routine starts at 7:30 with lights out at 8:15 pm. On the odd day he does not need a nap he reads in bed. No sleep issues. None.

The 3 year olds problem is not napping. The problem is she is forced to endure in an environment where she is not wanted or welcome. Obviously, refusing to nap is her attempt to get the parent's attention. Dear parent, please show your child some love and respect and find a more loving caring situation for her.
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  #132  
Old 03-07-2011, 01:57 AM
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Default Funny . . .

well I hate to tell you YOU WORK FOR ME FOLLOW THE RULES I HAVE SET FORTH FOR MY CHILD OR I WILL FIRE YOU[/quote]

Perhaps you are referring to a Nanny? We are not them. In order to make a statement like that you also have to cough up 500 - 800 dollars per week. Not the 140-200 you are paying.
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  #133  
Old 03-07-2011, 09:00 AM
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Thumbs up

It's really quite simple, my house, my policies, my rules.......if they do not work for you this is not the place to enroll your child. I have a home daycare with 5-6 children ages 2-5 who nap from 1-3 daily. They are all asleep within 10 min of laying down and parents have no bedtime issues. Kids need sleep. Bottom line, if the policies set forth by the provider do not work for you, don't enroll. You are no my "boss" and cannot fire me lol, you can certainly disenroll your child from care but I will not change my policies for any parent. If you cannot find a child care setting that works for you then you need a nanny.
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  #134  
Old 03-23-2011, 11:51 AM
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Question my daughter won't nap at daycare

For the last six weeks, my 4 year old daughter has been not taking her nap at daycare. I keep asking the teacher what has changed and I get no answers. She won't even stay on her mat for quiet time. I have tried everything- I send her with books, colors, paper, headphones for music- and she just refuses. Something changed in the classroom and I do not know how to help her. She takes naps on weekends- no arguments or anything. She knows it is quiet time and she lays on her bed and falls asleep withing 20-30 minutes- she has been like that for about 2 years. I do not know what to do about napping at school- the teachers only complain and do not try to get to the root of the problem. She likes going to school, so I do not want to take her out, but something is going on. I have already taken away her activities at night as punishment and if she does nap she gets rewarded. I have tried keeping her up late and waking her up early, but that does not help. I am out of ideas. Last week was spring break and instead of 28 kids in the class, there were 15; so she napped everyday. But now this week, everyone is back and she has not napped or behaved at naptime. Help- I do not know what to do.
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  #135  
Old 04-07-2011, 12:31 PM
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Unhappy To Nap or Not to Nap

Been a long and drawn out thread. My wife has an in home day care and I telecommute. So yes I am home as well.

The policy here is NAP time ranges from 12:30 ~ 3:00 depending on the daily activities. I have in 11 years only seen 1 child not take a nap. All have gone down without a fuss and gotten up by 3:00.

Problem began when one family moved into a new home, the infant twins had to sleep with the mother & father while the nursery was being put together. The nursery has taken about 3 months to finish. During this time the 3 year old began to wake up in the middle of the at night and join the family in the master bedroom at 3 am.

This habit has been going on for nearly 3 months. The parents are now requesting that the 3 year old NOT NAP so as to sleep through the night.

The child is so tired that he can't stay awake, but the parents are demanding my wife's assistance in keeping the child from his NAP.

Clearly the parent knows best.
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  #136  
Old 04-08-2011, 11:41 AM
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I am very surprised to hear daycare providers speak this way in a public forum.

I am the parent of a 3 1/2 yr old who does not need a nap. On weekends, she is quite happy and content, goes to bed at 8-8:30pm tops, getting up at the same time as we would on weekdays when we go to daycare, 7:30am ish.

Yet on weeknights, I cannot get her to sleep. This is not a question of discipline, as I have no issue on the weekends when she does not take a nap. The only difference is the daycare nap of approx 2 hours. She usually falls asleep around 10:30 - 11pm. Almost exactly 2 hours later...see the link!

I find your comments on parents to be generalizations that are not helpful to parents and children. Some children may need a nap while others do not...you shoudl be able to adapt your practices to these facts.
Would YOU work a 10.5 hour day with NO breaks? What if you could have a break, but your coworker threw a fit if you took one, because it was inconvenient to him? No, kids should not be forced to sleep, but a rest time. Yes.
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  #137  
Old 04-08-2011, 01:19 PM
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At Frustrated Mommy: First mistake was putting your toddler with someone who didn't take them. You should have said-that is fine I will keep looking or leave your child where she was and put the baby were she would be taken. Your provider also should have been more strong and just said no. Is your daughter the only non-infant there? If so she probably isn't being given enough stimulation-activities,crafts, pre-school things, outdoor time. She should be with children her own age. Also if she is going to sleep when you get her home and then going to bed a little bit later she probably isn't sleeping very well because she isn't tired. My biggest advice is to have her around children her own age and just plain tire her out! You already went through this with your youngest-someone who wouldn't take toddlers-why do it with your oldest? Is your husband on board with any of this. Is there anyway he could take her to childcare? I know if I don't get a break during the day my family pays for it later because I'm so mentally and physically exhausted by 6 at night that I don't want to do anything-dinner, laundry, clean-up. I just want to go to bed.
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  #138  
Old 04-08-2011, 03:32 PM
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Why are you assuming a provider would force a child to nap? I don't provide care to children who don't need a full afternoon nap. I'm not FORCING anyone. As soon as they have outgrown nap time they leave.
The "individuals" and "exceptions" don't attend my day care.

I "recognize" that there are children of ALL ages.. from birth to age five that don't need sleep. I hear that all the time from the parents. I BELIEVE them and I BELIEVE you when you say it. I agree. I just don't provide day care to those kids. See?

I won't accept a ten minute break here and there. I want a full two and a half hour break every day in my twelve hour day. I "need" that. I'm an "individual" and an "exception" that I have to have a break. Why is it that you can understand that a child may need "individual" and "exception" but you don't believe the adult may need the same consideration?

I say "let the providers be individuals".
I'm surprised this works. I wouldn't take my child anywhere that I knew she had to leave once she quit napping. Kids quit napping at all different ages. I also would never tell a DCF that they were done because DCK didn't sleep. Really?
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  #139  
Old 05-16-2011, 07:13 PM
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Angry

I have a three year old who struggles to go to sleep after a nap at daycare. Please note that she arises at 7:00 a.m., an goes to sleep at 8:00 p.m., without a nap. The process to get her to sleep is the same that I have implemented since she was eighteen months; pajamas, quite time, brush our teeth, say our prayers and then lay quitely (no TV, outside noise, talking, etc.) However, when she does take a nap at daycare and wakes up at 2:00, she is cranky during the evening and does not go to sleep until 11:30 p.m. During the weekends I have a rule that she does have to lay down for quite time. I work a full time job, as well as my husband, with a small baby. When I am working my full time job, I do not get a 2-3 hour break of silence. Please read on Kids Health (or talk to a pediatrician) on how much sleep a toddler/preschooler needs before letting a child sleep until 4. A child needs structure and if he/she is falling alseep at your home/center until 4 there is definitely a problem with structure. Try putting the shoes on the other foot (because I have done both) and see which is easier; working a full time job with a child who doesn't go to sleep because the provider lets them sleep all day because it is easier, or being a provider who lets kids sleep 2-3 hours while they have a chance to catch up on laundry, dishes, planning, etc. When my child stays up until 11:30 p.m., me and my husband still have to play catch up on everyday duties and responsibilities. Really?
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  #140  
Old 05-17-2011, 03:10 AM
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I have a three year old who struggles to go to sleep after a nap at daycare. Please note that she arises at 7:00 a.m., an goes to sleep at 8:00 p.m., without a nap. The process to get her to sleep is the same that I have implemented since she was eighteen months; pajamas, quite time, brush our teeth, say our prayers and then lay quitely (no TV, outside noise, talking, etc.) However, when she does take a nap at daycare and wakes up at 2:00, she is cranky during the evening and does not go to sleep until 11:30 p.m. During the weekends I have a rule that she does have to lay down for quite time. I work a full time job, as well as my husband, with a small baby. When I am working my full time job, I do not get a 2-3 hour break of silence. Please read on Kids Health (or talk to a pediatrician) on how much sleep a toddler/preschooler needs before letting a child sleep until 4. A child needs structure and if he/she is falling alseep at your home/center until 4 there is definitely a problem with structure. Try putting the shoes on the other foot (because I have done both) and see which is easier; working a full time job with a child who doesn't go to sleep because the provider lets them sleep all day because it is easier, or being a provider who lets kids sleep 2-3 hours while they have a chance to catch up on laundry, dishes, planning, etc. When my child stays up until 11:30 p.m., me and my husband still have to play catch up on everyday duties and responsibilities. Really?
I'm pretty sure every parent I've ever provided childcare for has provided me with some version of this story when their kids start the "bedtime games" stage. I wake my DCK's up if they are still sleeping at the end of naptime but I'm a firm believer that MOST children do not get enough sleep on a daily basis so I will NEVER give up afternoon naps here for children under 5. In fact my own 7 year old and my 5 year old niece regularly lay down for quiet time and fall asleep on days off school and still go to bed. It's not the nap...its the routine and consistency at bedtime at home in 99% of cases.
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  #141  
Old 05-17-2011, 04:45 AM
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I had to stop naps with my 3 year old in order for him to go to bed at 8:00. If he took a 2 hour nap he'd be up until 10:00. Perhaps it was selfish of me but I was a SAHM and I was the one that needed that after 8:00 quiet time. I was pretty fried by then.

It doesn't make sense with the original poster that they wanted the child to stay up during nap time and then they kept her up late at night. A child needs a good 10-12 hours of sleep a day and with that child crashing and burning first, it was obvious that she needed that nap. I'm surprised she wasn't falling asleep in her dinner! Poor thing.
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  #142  
Old 05-17-2011, 05:53 AM
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I have a three year old who struggles to go to sleep after a nap at daycare. Please note that she arises at 7:00 a.m., an goes to sleep at 8:00 p.m., without a nap. The process to get her to sleep is the same that I have implemented since she was eighteen months; pajamas, quite time, brush our teeth, say our prayers and then lay quitely (no TV, outside noise, talking, etc.) However, when she does take a nap at daycare and wakes up at 2:00, she is cranky during the evening and does not go to sleep until 11:30 p.m. During the weekends I have a rule that she does have to lay down for quite time. I work a full time job, as well as my husband, with a small baby. When I am working my full time job, I do not get a 2-3 hour break of silence. Please read on Kids Health (or talk to a pediatrician) on how much sleep a toddler/preschooler needs before letting a child sleep until 4. A child needs structure and if he/she is falling alseep at your home/center until 4 there is definitely a problem with structure. Try putting the shoes on the other foot (because I have done both) and see which is easier; working a full time job with a child who doesn't go to sleep because the provider lets them sleep all day because it is easier, or being a provider who lets kids sleep 2-3 hours while they have a chance to catch up on laundry, dishes, planning, etc. When my child stays up until 11:30 p.m., me and my husband still have to play catch up on everyday duties and responsibilities. Really?
For "me".. I know I can't work twelve hours straight and I can't keep a business running year after year... decade after decade if I limit my hours to an eight hour day where I could work straight. I also can't find clients who can afford the extra fee for supervision when kids are up and playing during nap so I can have the eleven/twelve hour day. My fee structure IS based on an afternoon break period. If I give that up then I HAVE to charge a lot more money.

I completely understand that there are many children from newborn on who don't need naps and have parents who don't want them to nap. There's no age group where the requests for no nap reside. I've had EVERY age group from six months up to five.

I became clear in that I won't argue or comprimise whether a kid needs a nap or not. If they don't need one they can't be HERE during nap. Nap is for ME. I need a break every day... a long quiet break every day. Minus illness or adjustments of newborns into care... I get it EVERY day.

That's what "I" need. It's not about the kid or about his parents. It's about ME and what "I" need to continue to offer this service year after year. It's about what it takes to keep ME healthy. I haven't missed a single day of work in 17 years... not one. Haven't called in once for being sick. I am happy in my job and I love love love my kidlets.

I KNOW what it takes to keep ME happy so I choose to only work with families who have children that need a FULL afteroon nap.
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  #143  
Old 05-17-2011, 07:21 AM
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I have a three year old who struggles to go to sleep after a nap at daycare. Please note that she arises at 7:00 a.m., an goes to sleep at 8:00 p.m., without a nap. The process to get her to sleep is the same that I have implemented since she was eighteen months; pajamas, quite time, brush our teeth, say our prayers and then lay quitely (no TV, outside noise, talking, etc.) However, when she does take a nap at daycare and wakes up at 2:00, she is cranky during the evening and does not go to sleep until 11:30 p.m. During the weekends I have a rule that she does have to lay down for quite time. I work a full time job, as well as my husband, with a small baby. When I am working my full time job, I do not get a 2-3 hour break of silence. Please read on Kids Health (or talk to a pediatrician) on how much sleep a toddler/preschooler needs before letting a child sleep until 4. A child needs structure and if he/she is falling alseep at your home/center until 4 there is definitely a problem with structure. Try putting the shoes on the other foot (because I have done both) and see which is easier; working a full time job with a child who doesn't go to sleep because the provider lets them sleep all day because it is easier, or being a provider who lets kids sleep 2-3 hours while they have a chance to catch up on laundry, dishes, planning, etc. When my child stays up until 11:30 p.m., me and my husband still have to play catch up on everyday duties and responsibilities. Really?
Find a provider who offers those services. Really.

I don't ever get it when parent's post this kind of thing. It isn't brain surgery...if your provider doesn't offer the services you require, find another one who does! It's really nothing to be angry or snippy about. It's like getting angry at your Dr.'s office because the don't offer botox...there is nothing wrong with you, nothing wrong with the doctor, you are just looking for services that your Dr. doesn't provide so you need to go see a different doctor.

You wouldn't decide that you wanted your child to learn Chinese and then insist that your daycare provider change her program to accommodate that, would you? So why in the world should she change her program to suit your non-napping child?
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  #144  
Old 06-03-2011, 01:27 PM
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ALL of the children i keep have naptime. ALL of them. Its in the contract and that is my "break" time(if you want to call it that). I too tell the parents that we have a 2 hour quiet time regardless of if your child sleeps or not. Period! Now if these parents were to take them to a larger center they would have to have quiet time also. I had a parent one time tell me that she doesn't use sippy cups at home (her kids were 1 and 4 at the time) and that the only time they are allowed to drink is when they are sitting at the table. I told her that they will be using sippy cups while at my house cause i don't want it on the carpet or furniture. Her rebuttlle......well if there sitting at the table they won't get it every where. Ok that just ticked me off........My response was i don't make the children sit at the table everytime they need a drink and that all the kids in my care WILL be using sippy cups including yours. That parent brings a regular cup every morning an that cup gets dumped out into a sippy cup! So i guess what my point is that if the child is sleeping at your house then let her sleep cause she is not getting the proper sleep at home. And i would just stand your ground on this. Just a word of advice.........Don't ever ever portray yourself as a push over cause they WILL push you over and over and over. Stand your ground, your house, your rules!!

This is what makes in home daycares look bad. Parents are parents and their ideas should be used, at least within reason. People like you make it hard to trust! You just said you do whatever you think is best, no matter what the parents want. YOUR KID, YOUR RULES!!!
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  #145  
Old 06-03-2011, 02:52 PM
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YOUR KID, YOUR RULES!!!
YES you are correct. So the parent needs to find a provider who provides the services to the "rules" they have for their childs care.

It's not a difficult concept. Find the place that does child care the way you want your child to be cared for. If the daycare doesn't offer a "no nap" service then you find one that does.

We AGREE with you. We just don't want to provide that service.

If you want your kid to have sushi then you don't take them to McDonalds. It aint personal.
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  #146  
Old 06-03-2011, 03:20 PM
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This is what makes in home daycares look bad. Parents are parents and their ideas should be used, at least within reason. People like you make it hard to trust! You just said you do whatever you think is best, no matter what the parents want. YOUR KID, YOUR RULES!!!
I will be a respectful as possible.

I believe you missed the part where the provider told the Mother that she would NOT be willing to compromise her policies.

At the point the Mother left her child in the care of the provider, AFTER she was informed, she AGREED to the terms of service.

It really is simple.

We are not being deceptive. Not every provider offers every service. If yours does not offer something you are looking for, find a provider who does.

Trust that she will not change her policies when she tells you, point blank, that she will not.
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Old 06-03-2011, 03:22 PM
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YES you are correct. So the parent needs to find a provider who provides the services to the "rules" they have for their childs care.

It's not a difficult concept. Find the place that does child care the way you want your child to be cared for. If the daycare doesn't offer a "no nap" service then you find one that does.

We AGREE with you. We just don't want to provide that service.

If you want your kid to have sushi then you don't take them to McDonalds. It aint personal.
Nan. I did not see your post...I had not refreshed my page since I started eating my dinner....
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  #148  
Old 06-03-2011, 04:02 PM
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Nan. I did not see your post...I had not refreshed my page since I started eating my dinner....


The whole idea that we force kids to nap....
that we shouldn't have a say about what services we offer....
that we are to just DO as we are told..

GETS OLD

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Old 06-04-2011, 06:32 AM
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I've been a provider for over 12 years and have only had one child whose parent requested no naps so their 4 yo child would sleep at night. Which I accomodated. Then the child bragged before and after nap about how *she* got to do fun things while the rest had to nap. I then had 5 children all resisting, and I worked my tail off trying to please them all during quiet time. By the end of my 11 hour day my bladder was bursting, tummy growling, the dog was "cleaning" up the messes for me and I was so exhausted that I had no "me" left for my own family. I endured this for months. Hardly the non-accomodating provider portrayed here. You know what I finally found out? This child obviously couldn't keep secrets (hence all the other children knowing about her special treatment) and she started sharing how her evenings were each night. I finally asked mom and dad if these things were true and they were

1.) She skipped nap here, but fell asleep daily in the car ride home or as soon as they got home and slept til dinner. Stayed up until nearly midnight in mom and dads bedroom watching things like South Park. Yes. South Park. Because it was her favorite show and she "knew better" than to imitate it.

2.) They would drive her to the store or fast-food restaurant late at night when she wouldn't sleep to quell the tantrums that she wasn't tired, with the promise that after the treat she would willingly try to sleep. Yup. Special treats for the poor thing, she wanted to please them oh so much but just couldn't.

3.) They didn't request no naps on their own. She had told them to make me stop them. She was making the rules for herself through mom and dad.

4.) I had also been asked to stop serving her foods she didn't like. Because the Doctor had "suggested" cutting out certain foods to "help her sleep". Asked for a drs note and then was told they were experimenting with this on their own, and had built off of a small suggestion the dr had made. This child later bragged to the other children that she got mommy to make me give her what she wanted to eat. The child thought it was great fun to point out that she was in control, not me.

I finally told the parents that if this child didn't stop sharing these things with the other children her special fun time would stop. They were all trying to get on board with this "I don't have to do what you ask, my mommy will tell you so". I just started to spin everything into a way that made them sound more like extra rules for her instead of accomodations. "Oh, too bad you arent allowed to take naps, we love our naptime" "Sorry you arent allowed to have carrots, they are cut into really cool little shapes today!" You know what, she started begging for these "priveledges" back. Mom backed her right up. I could eat lunch again! Yay!

It was a control thing. The OP is not the exact situation, but I wanted to give a side that would let you know *why* we are hesitant to change our routine for one. It took me almost a year to fix the disruption this caused, and to find out it was for a child's whim or that a parent that hid the fact that they allowed naps (it's not really a nap if it's the car ya know) from me that whole time has made me a bit anxious to encounter it again. I am not inflexible, just a victim of one bad experience. We are programmed to learn from negative experiences, it is total instinct. I have to slow down and remind myself, not all parents are like this. Just like not all home providers are the same either.

BTW - I still have this child. Surprising, I know. But in my eyes, the child was merely doing what she had been allowed to do and she had already been in 5 care situations by the time I got her. She needed to belong somewhere, and I was willing to start over for her sake. We communicated both sides and I still allow her to not sleep if she wishes so long as the other children are none the wiser, and she doesn't need to me to engage her in activities the whole time. I periodically check with the parents about car naps and late nights, and adjust her day if necessary, but we are all good most of the time. Mom no longer asks me to make exceptions for her. What Kim says goes. I now love this child. She knows she is loved as well, so there is no need to be the "special" one. She knows she is special to me.

I would love to have a parent being honest and trying to make it work. Compromise works for me and builds strong relationships with my clients. Yes, I prefer them to all nap. Yes, you prefer them to go to bed earlier. Sometimes we just have to meet in the middle somewhere so we both stay sane lol. I have never terminated a child for not napping. I didn't term my own, and I love my dc kids nearly as much as them.

I hope you find a place that can work for you. Please don't think that providers that require naps are all evil and selfish. My policies portray me as one of those as well. BUt the reality is that I will bend over backwards in an attempt to find a solution that works as long as the relationship is positive on all other levels. But I'm human and appreciate a lunch break as much as the rest of the employed population.
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  #150  
Old 06-04-2011, 10:13 AM
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Wow as a parent my fears about how childcare providers assume they know more about your child than you do have been confirmed. I have gone rounds and rounds with three daycares insisting that my 4 1/2 year old no longer needs to nap but I am only his mother what do I know. Now before you all say I just don't know how to put my child to bed you should all know on the weekends when he hasn't taken a nap I HAVE ABSOLUTELY NO PROBLEM PUTTING MY CHILD TO BED, he is in bed by 8 no problem. His current center has a nap time from 1-3 or when the wake up. 2 hours is way too long and 3 is way too late to be waking up. I honestly would have no problem with a 30 min nap at say noon but anything more than that is excessive. Just because a child will go to sleep doesn't mean they need the sleep. If you put me on a cot and turned off the lights in the middle of the day at my work I would nod off too, and you know what I would be kept up when it was time for me to go to sleep. For those of you that won't wake up a child, shame on you I too have arrived at 4pm to find my child just woken up because he fell asleep at the end of naptime, gosh he must have finally nodded off out of the bordom of expecting a 4 yr old to sit quietly in the dark for 2 hours and "read". I guess those of you that require by contract that you get a 2 hour break in the middle of the day better stick to running your own daycare because no other jobs out there get to take 2 hours off in the middle of theday. Also if you would like to know as a parent what annoys us about daycare workers is that somehow you act like we work for you and we are to do as you say, well I hate to tell you YOU WORK FOR ME FOLLOW THE RULES I HAVE SET FORTH FOR MY CHILD OR I WILL FIRE YOU
Ahahahahahaha! I'm sorry, this post is hilarious!

If you don't like the RULES, then take your child elsewhere. Better yet, stay HOME with your child and see what it's like in the real world. Did you know that in the real world there are also rules that have to be followed? They're called LAWS. You feel that the rules don't apply to you. I wonder how many laws don't apply to you. This is what you are teaching your child now at 4 1/2. Just wait until he reaches his teen years - you're in for a bumpy ride.

The child that refuses to rest will 9 times out of 10 will wake those that do need a rest with their shinanigans. Sorry about geeking but "the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few".

But.. like I said, if you don't like it and feel your child isn't being treated right, by all means, find a place that is a better fit or take care of him yourself.
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Old 06-13-2011, 02:46 PM
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I have a 4 year old who has to lay on a mat for 1 and a half hours at her preschool/day care center. She can't get her little body to rest/sleep. The teachers reward the resting sleeping children with stickers. So every day my daughter comes home crying thinking she did something wrong because she gets no reward. Every child is different. To force a 4 year old to lay on a mat for that long doing nothing is bizarre to me. Could someone please post the Maryland state regulation that says child care workers must force a child to lay on a mat for 2 hours.

I think I read that regulation at one point and it states that a child care center must offer a nap area and a rest period but it is up to the child if he/she wants to nap or rest. I understand the need for quiet time but please this is crazy the way you think you can force children to sleep or sit still on a mat when their bodies are not able to do so.
Stop and really think about the power struggle you are creating. The feeling of shame you are creating in these children when you are telling them to do this and if they don't something is wrong with them.
You are interrupting the regulation all wrong. This regulation was to support and understand the needs of the child not to give the care giver a break.

Read and reread the regulation with each individual child in mind. Then please, please listen to the parents who knows more about their own child then the person in government that wrote a regulation that is being misused.

I completely agree with you and am glad you posted. I've worked at day care centers for a few years now, with all ages. I don't understand why some teachers think the quiet time is suddenly their "break time." Four year old children (and younger) DO need rest, yes, but every child is different. To force a child to lay still for that long if they CLEARLY do not need rest is just ridiculous to me. There are plenty of quiet activities for children to do; read, color, even bring in a small game with headphones if they are that active. Believe me, I know that it's hard to have some kids trying to rest who REALLY, REALLY need sleep while Little Johnny is screaming his head off. But this mother is completely right. There are some children who are just simply non-nappers, active children, and the idea that they go home each day crying/without a sticker like their friends makes me so sad/angry for them. She is exactly right in saying that it creates a feeling of shame in them. They do not understand the adult reason for needing to have them all laying down. And this parent is correct in saying that long, excessive naps DO disrupt sleeping patterns at home. For one poster here who said that it's all a matter of the routine at home being "wrong," that's just insulting. You have no idea what the routine is of these parents who probably do have a good night time routine, lights off at a certain time no exceptions, and still struggle with their children not sleeping because of a long nap at school being forced. The government regulation is definitely being misused by some teachers and it's sad that parents have no say in their own children's daily routine.
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Old 06-14-2011, 01:25 AM
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Thank you for this post. I also have a 4 year old at daycare. She is having the same issues. I am appalled as well. We live in MA and they are required to give students rest time, but one teacher forces my daughter to take a nap. I have tried to provide the school with a doctors note, and dolls for my daughter to sit and play with quietly. The center director agreed, stating my daughter would be woken after 1/2 hour if she falls asleep. I agree, it is hard enough leaving your children and now after reading all the comments of daycare providers it makes it even harder
Some people really should not work with children or families. Nap time is not Breaktime- for providers to play on the computer! Some children are more active than others-my daughter is up all night on school nights, but when she is kept home, or is home on weekends has a beautiful sleep routine. It is clear to me what the problem is-She is awake for-what 4 hours of her day-why would she want to sleep at night. Not all parents have the liberty of staying home and caring for their own children-most of us put our children there because we have to! Get another job-if you can't put children's health before your break time!

Furious in MA!
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  #153  
Old 06-14-2011, 06:20 AM
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Some people really should not work with children or families. Nap time is not Breaktime- for providers to play on the computer! Some children are more active than others-my daughter is up all night on school nights, but when she is kept home, or is home on weekends has a beautiful sleep routine. It is clear to me what the problem is-She is awake for-what 4 hours of her day-why would she want to sleep at night. Not all parents have the liberty of staying home and caring for their own children-most of us put our children there because we have to! Get another job-if you can't put children's health before your break time!

Furious in MA!
You are correct-some children are more active than others. I have some in my care that are active BUT my STATE still requires me to provide a rest time for the children and will ask what time do the children rest. This is a state rule/law that we have to follow.

I have children come very early in my day-6:30 and if I don't lay them down till 1:00 they have been up 6.5 hours not 4 and are tired-you must take your child to childcare late in the morning and that would make sense of why she isn't tired. The majority of my children are here 9.5-11 hours a day-they definitely need rest.

Parents have asked me not to lay children down for rest time but then when I show them the rule nothing more is said. One parent was surprised when child left here for another childcare and guess what they had to have resttime there also. It is funny because the ones that the parents don't want to fall asleep alsways seem to do the majority of the time. You can't make a child sleep it comes naturally if the child is tired.

Just recently one of mine didn't fall asleep but did rest. Guess what-within minutes after rest time this child was crying because she was tired (she told me this) and ended up in time out because she started being not nice to the other ones here. At pick-up time her mom wasn't happy with her because she knows how this child can be without a nap but didn't blame me for her not sleeping. She just let the child know that she would be sleeping alot earlier at home tonight-that threw the eveing routine for them at home all out of wack.

True, alot of people do not get to stay home and work. My children are pretty much all grown but I keep doing this because it is my career and one I have built up and very proud of. My suggestion to you is maybe look for another provider that fits your childs energy level better or start your own childcare. That is seriously how I started my childcare-I wasn't happy with care my child was receiving and was able to make more doing this than the job I was at. Then you are the rule maker for your child.

The last thing I would suggest is contact your state and ask for a childcare providers handbook that lists all the rules and regulations for your state. I bet you would be amazed and the things we have to follow and do in order to "stay home with our children".
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Old 06-14-2011, 12:07 PM
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Some people really should not work with children or families. Nap time is not Breaktime- for providers to play on the computer! Some children are more active than others-my daughter is up all night on school nights, but when she is kept home, or is home on weekends has a beautiful sleep routine. It is clear to me what the problem is-She is awake for-what 4 hours of her day-why would she want to sleep at night. Not all parents have the liberty of staying home and caring for their own children-most of us put our children there because we have to! Get another job-if you can't put children's health before your break time!

Furious in MA!

This post is so offensive that it's hard to decide what to address first.

Naptime for my daycare kids IS breaktime for me and I can use my computer as I see fit. When it's naptime/rest time for my daycare kids, then that means that whatever the kids are doing, it needs to be done quietly if the child isn't sleeping. That means that I won't be engaging the kids who aren't sleeping in any way other than making sure that whatever they are doing, they are doing it quietly. It's not fair to have a lot of noise that prevents the kids who want to sleep from getting rest.

For all of the parents who have kids who fight bedtime, first off, I understand how frustrating it is because my daughter was the worst when it came to bedtime. It wasn't the daycare's fault. She never slept at daycare (but she did rest quietly or just did quiet rest time activities and wasn't disruptive) and still she fought bedtime. It's not always a clear case of "it's all daycare's fault that my kid won't go to bed". Sometimes kids just fight bedtime. Furthermore, if a kid is active, then what would you suggest that the provider do during naptime with the child? You are thinking about this from a parent's point of view and that's fine for you. You know what you want for your child and that's super. Guess what? Unlike you, I have to keep everyone's best interest in mind as a provider.

When I have the kids in my care napping/resting, I am absolutely putting their health first. Kids need time during the day to unwind. They may not want to sleep and that's OK, but they do need some down time during the day. I never force kids to go to sleep, but they always fall asleep when it's naptime. Sleep is too important for health and growth to be used as a means to make sure that your kid goes to sleep on your schedule. Sure, if you knew what she did every day that she was at daycare and you knew for a fact that it was the same thing that you do with her on the weekends and any other day that she might be home with you, then maybe you could say that she doesn't need a nap but daycare schedules are usually a whole lot different. If your child is falling asleep at naptime at daycare, it's most likely because she needs the sleep then.

Providers aren't trying to make life hard for the parents by having a nap time. Providers aren't trying to be lazy, either.

Wow. Just wow.
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Old 06-24-2011, 04:48 AM
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Laundry Duchess:

I disagree completely that you discipline a child a whole day after the incident. You find a disciplinary routine that works i.e. time out that is age appropriate and discipline him/her in the moment. Then you forget about it as they would as well! Especially off to the next day. That would only confuse the child and make them think they did nothing wrong, as maybe the next day they hadn't. The more consistent you are the more consistent the child's behavior will become. Period. Even if the parents don't discipline at their home, children are smart enought to pick up on differnt house, center, whatever...different rules.



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Originally Posted by laundryduchess@yahoo.com View Post
have you just simply told him, when you yell at nap you will get no craft time. Period. Hes 4, not a baby. He seems smart. Be straight with him. when he arrives say Little Billy, if you scream at my home you will have to lose an activity. If your quiet, you get the activity.

Make it story time or playdough time or whatever,... something that happens BEFORE nap remind him the first day during the activity that if he screams he will not do the activity the next day. If he does scream,.... the next day say,.. Billy, you dont get to play (the activity) today because of your behavior yesterday. Im sorry but you chose to throw a fit, you need to go sit while we do the activity. Then when you lay them down say ,.. Billy,.. if you scream today you will not do the activity tomorrow. It will be fresh in his mind that he missed out because of his behavior. I bet it will take one day,.. possibly two to fix this issue. If it doesnt work the first day pick something really fun to exclude him from. And if anyone wants to flame me go ahead. Thats how it works here,.. You behave and get fun things,.. You misbehave and you dont. Amazingly,.. the kids behave,.. listen and after a time or two missing a fun thing,.. they magically "get it". My opinion,.. you dont give a tantrum a reward. and any attention is attention even if its to say,.. hush, be quiet,.. stop yelling,.. Bad behavior is ignored,..Ignored behavior is not being re-enforced. the bad behavior that gets no attention is no longer getting them attention so its not worth the effort. They see that good behavior is rewarded with fun things,... the world keeps spinning and everyone is friends.
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  #156  
Old 06-24-2011, 08:30 PM
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or ignore them in hopes they will sleep.

Break time is when you have an assistant come in and cover for you.

If you can't do this, and you need families whose children need naps, search for that in interviews, make a no drop offs after x o'clock rule. I am not aware of any state with a requirement for sleep, or that allows non sleepers to be kept down for more than 30 minutes, if that. Get a quiet corner, play nap time DVDs (aligned with your learning units).

You can create a quiet, engaging time for this child, and others who will come. Its up to you to decide if you are willing to.

If you are a parent with a nap time issue, and your provider is forcing your non-sleeping child to stay on a mat or cot longer than 30 minutes, call your state agency.
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Old 06-27-2011, 09:37 AM
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If a 4 year old doesn't sleep here, that's okay with me. At this point they are two months away from kindergarten. If they are enrolled in afternoon classes then they need to adjust to no naps anyway.

They lay down on their mats the same time everyone else does. Like someone else mentioned if they aren't asleep after about 30 mins, I give them books to look at/read. If after an hour they are still wide awake, they can get up and do quiet activities in whatever room I'm in. We'll talk quietly while I do what I need to.. it's a chance to spend some time with them on their level without the younger ones' needs in there. It's also understood that for the last however long before "wake up" time I will have a cup of coffee and read, and that is "my" time.

I don't believe every four year old needs a nap anymore. Quiet time yes, but not necessarily sleep. If they have a good solid sleep at night, some can go without the nap in the afternoon. With kindergarten only a couple of months away it's a good time to start getting them used to a full day without a nap.
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Old 07-06-2011, 09:18 PM
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I put my 3.5yr old religiously to bed at 7pm every night. Before bedtime, there's no stimulation, no tv, no juices, no sugar, etc. The room is dark, she has a sound machine, no toys in the crib, and can't hear us downstairs. By the end of a long weekend, she's on a great schedule falling asleep at 7:15 with no problem and waking at 7:30am the next morning. But when she goes back to daycare, within 2 days, although she goes to bed at 7pm, she's up talking until 9:30pm. We got to bed at 9pm on most nights so I can only wonder how long she goes talking for. I remind her not to talk but she forgets. She'll play pretend, count her fingers, etc. in the dark. Fridays are worse as those are the days the daycare provider takes it "easy" and the kids all "sleep" a little extra so she can plan her weekend. I discovered she puts my kid down at 12:30pm and gets her up at 3:30pm. After an almost quarter night's sleep and being put in bed 3.5hrs later, she just can't fall asleep. I spoke with the provider who stated that since I have to wake her at 6:30am on weekdays (I work full-time), that's the reason she gives her extra naptime. She intentionally misses my point that my daughter is put in bed at 7pm every single night. It hurts to hear my daughter bored for 2.5hrs a night upstairs and to think of her locked up in some room so this lady can take a break. I'll be putting her in preschool as soon as I can afford it. When she went to a licensed public daycare, she was not having any sleep issues & had more stimulation to exercise her body and mind.
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Old 07-06-2011, 09:31 PM
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I am shocked at how many daycare owners are up past 1am on weekdays on this thread. People are usually worn out when they spend day in and out with kids. Makes me wonder what your "secrets" are to being able to stay up so late & face a bunch of kids the following morning before parents have to be at work. My cousin runs her own in-home daycare. If you e-mail her at anytime of the day, she'll respond within minutes. Makes me wonder what people are paying her for other than to standby like a correctional officer with a bunch of inmates.
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Old 07-07-2011, 03:11 AM
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The post here are getting more and more amusing. Putting your child to bed at 7:00pm. Hmm, guess you don't want to spend time with your child, yet you are condenscending to a provider to putting a child down for a nap during the 8 to 10 hours they have them during the day. You can't possible spend more than 2 to 3 hours with your own child if you put them to bed at 7:00pm. Then to be "shocked" at how many providers are up at 1am. And you know this how????? The time posted on "my" post is wrong, and I specifically set it up that way. And really, what business is it of anyone's what time any of us go to bed, many people function quite well on 5/6 hours sleep. Don't judge people you know nothing about. And in our state, you don't go to kindergarten till you are 5, and even the dc centers have naptime for soon to start kindergarteners, they stop giving naps 1 week before they start.
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Old 07-07-2011, 03:49 AM
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I put my 3.5yr old religiously to bed at 7pm every night. Before bedtime, there's no stimulation, no tv, no juices, no sugar, etc. The room is dark, she has a sound machine, no toys in the crib, and can't hear us downstairs. By the end of a long weekend, she's on a great schedule falling asleep at 7:15 with no problem and waking at 7:30am the next morning. But when she goes back to daycare, within 2 days, although she goes to bed at 7pm, she's up talking until 9:30pm. We got to bed at 9pm on most nights so I can only wonder how long she goes talking for. I remind her not to talk but she forgets. She'll play pretend, count her fingers, etc. in the dark. Fridays are worse as those are the days the daycare provider takes it "easy" and the kids all "sleep" a little extra so she can plan her weekend. I discovered she puts my kid down at 12:30pm and gets her up at 3:30pm. After an almost quarter night's sleep and being put in bed 3.5hrs later, she just can't fall asleep. I spoke with the provider who stated that since I have to wake her at 6:30am on weekdays (I work full-time), that's the reason she gives her extra naptime. She intentionally misses my point that my daughter is put in bed at 7pm every single night. It hurts to hear my daughter bored for 2.5hrs a night upstairs and to think of her locked up in some room so this lady can take a break. I'll be putting her in preschool as soon as I can afford it. When she went to a licensed public daycare, she was not having any sleep issues & had more stimulation to exercise her body and mind.
Seven p.m. is a REALLY early bedtime for a child this age. All my kids go to bed around eight thirty/nine p.m.. They have a full evening with their parents.

Your little one wants her Mommy. She wants to be up and have FAMILY time in the evenings with you. If she went to bed at nine p.m. after having the seven to nine p.m. time as a FAMILY time with you then she would most likely conk out at sleep.

Kids need at least five hours of AWAKE time EVERY day with their parents. Not including transportation time to the day care.
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  #162  
Old 07-07-2011, 03:52 AM
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I am shocked at how many daycare owners are up past 1am on weekdays on this thread. People are usually worn out when they spend day in and out with kids. Makes me wonder what your "secrets" are to being able to stay up so late & face a bunch of kids the following morning before parents have to be at work. My cousin runs her own in-home daycare. If you e-mail her at anytime of the day, she'll respond within minutes. Makes me wonder what people are paying her for other than to standby like a correctional officer with a bunch of inmates.
You might be seeing time differences on the threads. I don't know how that works. Unless I was off the next day I wouldn't be up that late. And yes I have a cousin who thinks that if I'm able to answer emails instantly that I couldn't possibly be doing anything but standby like a correctional officer with a bunch of inmates.

We all have them there cousins... the ones always trying to find fault... the ones always trying to tell you how to do your business.... and none of them actually DO child care.
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Old 07-07-2011, 04:34 AM
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By the end of a long weekend, she's on a great schedule falling asleep at 7:15 with no problem and waking at 7:30am the next morning. But when she goes back to daycare, within 2 days, although she goes to bed at 7pm, she's up talking until 9:30pm. We got to bed at 9pm on most nights so I can only wonder how long she goes talking for.
I can't believe you are going to sleep BEFORE you know your own child is asleep! That could be dangerous unless you are an extremely light sleeper.


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I discovered she puts my kid down at 12:30pm and gets her up at 3:30pm. After an almost quarter night's sleep and being put in bed 3.5hrs later, she just can't fall asleep.
If she is crashing and burning at 12:30 and sleeping until 3:30, she NEEDS it.

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I spoke with the provider who stated that since I have to wake her at 6:30am on weekdays (I work full-time), that's the reason she gives her extra naptime.
In other words, she is little miss cranky pants from 6:30-12:30 because she hasn't gotten enough sleep. You are telling us she is asleep from 7:15-7:30 but I'm detecting a Pinocchioism here.

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Originally Posted by Unregistered View Post
When she went to a licensed public daycare, she was not having any sleep issues & had more stimulation to exercise her body and mind.
Since you are so unhappy with your provider, I think it may be time to move on. You will find that a licensed public daycare requires children to nap during the day as well. You probably had your daughter there when she was quite a bit younger and needed more sleep. I doubt she took a shorter nap. 2 hours is pretty standard. 2 hours is when they START to lay down to nap but they don't all fall asleep immediately. Good luck!


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I am shocked at how many daycare owners are up past 1am on weekdays on this thread. People are usually worn out when they spend day in and out with kids. Makes me wonder what your "secrets" are to being able to stay up so late & face a bunch of kids the following morning before parents have to be at work. My cousin runs her own in-home daycare. If you e-mail her at anytime of the day, she'll respond within minutes. Makes me wonder what people are paying her for other than to standby like a correctional officer with a bunch of inmates.
So you think your cousin is the norm? Do YOU have children? Because if you do, I see that you are up and on the computer at 12:31 AM.
It's quite possible that some of these child care providers have skewed sleep schedules due to the after dinner crash and burn which may have resulted in a nap during their family time. When I had a young baby, I used to work from home on the computer from 8:00-12:00. It wasn't unusual for me to be posting on a "fun" forum at 1:00 AM.
Keep in mind that not all members here are full time daycare providers.
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  #164  
Old 07-07-2011, 04:41 AM
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Also regarding emails...in this day and age it's very easy to have email access on a phone. I get a text when I have a new email for example. I can check it in the yard with the kids and quickly reply. I usually say something like..."in the yard, will write back with details at naptime when I'm inside." if it's anything lengthy or requires my brain to reply. lol

I also post facebook pics from my phone outside and update my facebook status. My parents like seeing updates as the day goes on if someone does something funny or amazing!! I sent a mom video of her dd from my backyard at 4pm yesterday when she mastered something she's been attempting for days.

Don't assume that all providers are slacking, eating bon bons and letting the kids run wild.
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Old 07-07-2011, 06:31 AM
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Seven p.m. is a REALLY early bedtime for a child this age. All my kids go to bed around eight thirty/nine p.m.. They have a full evening with their parents.

Your little one wants her Mommy. She wants to be up and have FAMILY time in the evenings with you. If she went to bed at nine p.m. after having the seven to nine p.m. time as a FAMILY time with you then she would most likely conk out at sleep.

Kids need at least five hours of AWAKE time EVERY day with their parents. Not including transportation time to the day care.
I have a family that there children are in bed about 7:30 every night (except church night) and they are in elementary school (upper grades). My husband and brothers all had to be in bed at 7:00 while in elementary school. This was even during the summer time. They can all tell you that it was still bright and sunshiny out when they were in bed. It was dinner, showers then bed every night.
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Old 07-07-2011, 10:28 AM
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My 7 year old goes to bed at 7:30pm most nights. She still needs 12 hours sleep or she's a miserable cranky mess. I rarely let her stay up past 8pm even in the summer. The last fireworks she watched she was up until 10:30 and was a hysterical heap of tears on the floor by the time we got home because I made her hold my hand after she kept dawdling behind us.
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Old 07-07-2011, 12:22 PM
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The difference is those kids are in school all day and not expected to nap.

A child that's been in daycare all day, where a rest period is usually enforced, does not need to be in bed at 7am. My dd3 naps about 1.5-2 hours day and goes to bed between 8-8:30. We close the door and she closes her eyes and that's her until 6:30-7am. If she wasn't napping, she'd be in bed earlier, but because she's still happy and not requiring rest at 7, why on earth would I cut my day with her short? And I'm WITH her all day long
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Old 07-12-2011, 12:55 PM
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Cool An analogy..

Imagine having a birthday party for 8 children under the age of 5 at your house, with no other parents there to help you. Now do that for 10-11 hours a day, 5 days a week. Make sure to plenty of meals and activites! Oh, and no one has had a nap? arrrggggg!!!!
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Old 07-12-2011, 02:32 PM
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I am shocked at how many daycare owners are up past 1am on weekdays on this thread. People are usually worn out when they spend day in and out with kids. Makes me wonder what your "secrets" are to being able to stay up so late & face a bunch of kids the following morning before parents have to be at work. My cousin runs her own in-home daycare. If you e-mail her at anytime of the day, she'll respond within minutes. Makes me wonder what people are paying her for other than to standby like a correctional officer with a bunch of inmates.
keep in mind that we have members from all across the U.S and Canada--even Alaska, I believe. Your 1 AM might be their 10 PM...they might be up with a restless wakey infant, have insomnia, or not have to get up at 6 AM the next day. Also..you were up at 12:30 so what gives??
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Old 08-10-2011, 12:00 AM
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My son is 4 1/2 and is being forced to take naps by his daycare. He hasn't slept before 10:00 since preschool let out a month ago - and yes, he has a regular bedtime, he just cant sleep and is crying in his bed. There is no reason for a 4 year old child to take a nap other than the laziness of the daytime caretaker. My boy walked into daycare this morning (and many mornings before ) proclaiming that he wanted to sleep at night not in the day but once again his wish was not honored. I guess thats what minimum wage gets you.
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Old 08-10-2011, 09:13 AM
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My son is 4 1/2 and is being forced to take naps by his daycare. He hasn't slept before 10:00 since preschool let out a month ago - and yes, he has a regular bedtime, he just cant sleep and is crying in his bed. There is no reason for a 4 year old child to take a nap other than the laziness of the daytime caretaker. My boy walked into daycare this morning (and many mornings before ) proclaiming that he wanted to sleep at night not in the day but once again his wish was not honored. I guess thats what minimum wage gets you.
Well, since YOU are his parent and his daycare situation is clearly not working for him, what are YOU doing to fix it?

If the current provider doesn't offer the services you need, shouldn't you be looking for one that does? What does wage have to do with it? This is simply about what services ARE offered, versus which ones ARE NOT offered.

As his parent, why don't you set about "honoring" his wishes? Or, is that too much work? Much easier to complain than to fix, I suppose.
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Old 08-10-2011, 09:32 AM
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My son is 4 1/2 and is being forced to take naps by his daycare. He hasn't slept before 10:00 since preschool let out a month ago - and yes, he has a regular bedtime, he just cant sleep and is crying in his bed. There is no reason for a 4 year old child to take a nap other than the laziness of the daytime caretaker. My boy walked into daycare this morning (and many mornings before ) proclaiming that he wanted to sleep at night not in the day but once again his wish was not honored. I guess thats what minimum wage gets you.
This is SO sad.

Why would you take your child somewhere where they are FORCING him to do something HE doesn't want to do and YOU don't want him to do? Why are you allowing him around a minimum wage employee who is lazy? Why would you take him back many mornings and stand there and LISTEN to him say the words that he doesn't want to sleep during the day and then LEAVE........ HIM....... THERE? You KNOW his wishes are not being honored and you walk away?

He needs a PARENT to make sure his wishes are HONORED and he is not FORCED to do something he doesn't want and clearly doesn't need. YOU have to make sure that happens.... YOU
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Old 08-10-2011, 09:45 AM
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My son is 4 1/2 and is being forced to take naps by his daycare. He hasn't slept before 10:00 since preschool let out a month ago - and yes, he has a regular bedtime, he just cant sleep and is crying in his bed. There is no reason for a 4 year old child to take a nap other than the laziness of the daytime caretaker. My boy walked into daycare this morning (and many mornings before ) proclaiming that he wanted to sleep at night not in the day but once again his wish was not honored. I guess thats what minimum wage gets you.
If it's so important to you that his caretaker honour his wishes then you need to find him a caretaker who will. This is not on them...you were the one who dropped him off there.

My own children go to bed between 7:30-8pm. We just recently moved my 8yo's bedtime to 8pm. They like their sleep.
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Old 08-10-2011, 11:57 AM
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I am a little sad by the comments from some parents on this thread. There are great providers and not so great providers. Just as there are great people in your (parents) line of work and not so great people.

We are all human. Most of use work our butts off trying to make sure we provide a great enviroment and we even use whatever little income is left over to put twoards toys, equiptment, and whatever we think your child will like.

It is your choice who you leave your child with. Like Nannyde said.

We are hard working citizens too. We try to please every parent in the ways we can.

I guess I just wanted to say, I am working just like you. I like my job and I try very hard to do it well, just as I am sure you do to. So to read the things you wrote makes me very sad for the future daycare providers. Parents are setting up expectations that no ONE human can live up to. There is usually only ONE of us...all day long. And we still put on a happy smile for you after a long hard day. And its amazing that we still find joy in our job when parents constently fight our program and put us down.
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Old 08-10-2011, 12:19 PM
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My son is 4 1/2 and is being forced to take naps by his daycare. He hasn't slept before 10:00 since preschool let out a month ago - and yes, he has a regular bedtime, he just cant sleep and is crying in his bed. There is no reason for a 4 year old child to take a nap other than the laziness of the daytime caretaker. My boy walked into daycare this morning (and many mornings before ) proclaiming that he wanted to sleep at night not in the day but once again his wish was not honored. I guess thats what minimum wage gets you.
If you have an issue with your son's childcare provider, then you need to address it. You are keeping your child in a daycare setting that you aren't comfortable with. Why is it the provider's job to "honor" your son's wishes in relation to naptime? What about the wishes of the other children in her care? I guess that their wishes aren't as important as your son's.

Of course he's proclaiming that he doesn't want to nap. Not many kids start their day looking forward to nap. Some kids are determined to get out of naptime and will cry about how much they don't like naptime. What are the rest time requirements for the state that you live in? She may have a required rest time for children that are under the age of 6.

I don't force my daycare kids to sleep but we do have a rest time. Within five minutes of laying down, they are all sleeping. You may not think that a 4 year old doesn't need a nap but if a 4 year old falls asleep, then that's a pretty clear sign to me that the child is tired.

What if a 4 year old child who doesn't have naptime is loud and is not able to do quiet activities while the other kids sleep? It seems pretty unfair to the other kids.

Have you considered a nanny? You might need one in order to have your child's "wishes" honored.
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Old 08-10-2011, 12:28 PM
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I am shocked at how many daycare owners are up past 1am on weekdays on this thread. People are usually worn out when they spend day in and out with kids. Makes me wonder what your "secrets" are to being able to stay up so late & face a bunch of kids the following morning before parents have to be at work. My cousin runs her own in-home daycare. If you e-mail her at anytime of the day, she'll respond within minutes. Makes me wonder what people are paying her for other than to standby like a correctional officer with a bunch of inmates.
I am up every evening very late. I get up every morning before the sun does. 7 days a week.
I have never napped in my adult life.
I do not smoke, drink alcohol, do drugs or take any other kind of product that helps keep me awake and/or alert.
I am simply one of those people who requires very little sleep.
I am NEVER cranky or moody. (I have no idea why...I just feel happy and joyful to be alive everyday.)
I am always smiling and laughing with those around me....especially my daycare kids.

I hate when people lump others together in a group and make such stupid assumptions and stereotypes.
Just like all the parents and the children we encounter are vastly unique, so is every childcare provider.


I'll be sure to check and see if you have a response around 1:00 a.m. tonight.
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Old 08-10-2011, 12:45 PM
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I have a 4 year old who has to lay on a mat for 1 and a half hours at her preschool/day care center. She can't get her little body to rest/sleep. The teachers reward the resting sleeping children with stickers. So every day my daughter comes home crying thinking she did something wrong because she gets no reward. Every child is different. To force a 4 year old to lay on a mat for that long doing nothing is bizarre to me. Could someone please post the Maryland state regulation that says child care workers must force a child to lay on a mat for 2 hours.

I think I read that regulation at one point and it states that a child care center must offer a nap area and a rest period but it is up to the child if he/she wants to nap or rest. I understand the need for quiet time but please this is crazy the way you think you can force children to sleep or sit still on a mat when their bodies are not able to do so.
Stop and really think about the power struggle you are creating. The feeling of shame you are creating in these children when you are telling them to do this and if they don't something is wrong with them.
You are interrupting the regulation all wrong. This regulation was to support and understand the needs of the child not to give the care giver a break.

Read and reread the regulation with each individual child in mind. Then please, please listen to the parents who knows more about their own child then the person in government that wrote a regulation that is being misused.
This is what I have to say about this. I don't disagree with you, however, there are also lots of children in this group setting that DO nap and need the full rest time. If your child's individual needs don't work at this center or in group child care, then find a place where their needs are being met. I expect the children who are getting stickers are getting them for laying quietly and respecting the other children's right to nap. Your child's needs don't come before the needs of the group. Not in group care, not in this setting. Sure, we want what's best for the kids, but if you're looking for individualized care you need to hire a nanny or babysitter that can provide the kind of one-on-one care you're looking for.

What about the parent that has a 4 year old and says, my child is only sleeping an hour because another child is allowed to be up and playing during rest. She's crabby and is not enjoying her evening soccer practice because she isn't resting long enough. The needs of the group will always win out in group child care. If the majority of the group needs to rest for 2.5 hours, then all the children will rest quietly for 2.5 hours.

If your child has outgrown nap time, then it is up to you to find care that suits her individual needs rather than criticize the care being provided to a group of children that seem to be well suited to this naptime rule.
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  #178  
Old 08-10-2011, 12:50 PM
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I am shocked at how many daycare owners are up past 1am on weekdays on this thread. People are usually worn out when they spend day in and out with kids. Makes me wonder what your "secrets" are to being able to stay up so late & face a bunch of kids the following morning before parents have to be at work. My cousin runs her own in-home daycare. If you e-mail her at anytime of the day, she'll respond within minutes. Makes me wonder what people are paying her for other than to standby like a correctional officer with a bunch of inmates.
I wonder what YOUR secrets are that you have to post on here as an unregistered guest.
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  #179  
Old 08-10-2011, 12:58 PM
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I just have to say that I LOVE the tag for this post......"the post that would not end". Amen!
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  #180  
Old 08-10-2011, 01:43 PM
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My son is 4 1/2 and is being forced to take naps by his daycare. He hasn't slept before 10:00 since preschool let out a month ago - and yes, he has a regular bedtime, he just cant sleep and is crying in his bed. There is no reason for a 4 year old child to take a nap other than the laziness of the daytime caretaker. My boy walked into daycare this morning (and many mornings before ) proclaiming that he wanted to sleep at night not in the day but once again his wish was not honored. I guess thats what minimum wage gets you.
Seriously? Careful about all that looking down your nose - you just might trip.

I find it so ironic that someone thinks so little of the person they are putting in charge of their most precious gift. Sad indeed.
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  #181  
Old 08-10-2011, 04:44 PM
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If you e-mail her at anytime of the day, she'll respond within minutes.

Me, too..

My computer says "You've got mail". The children then chant "You got mail, You got mail, You got mail" to the music of Nany-nany-boo-boo..

Once I was even told "MS. ***, your chair wants you."

So I walk over to my desk to see what it is. Usually it is a parent, but occasionally it is a toy or curriculum sale...
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  #182  
Old 08-12-2011, 06:00 AM
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Im sorry and Im gonna get everyone crazy again, but when I first read Frustrated's post, I didnt believe it! There, I said it.
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  #183  
Old 08-22-2011, 10:47 PM
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Thanks for all the comments. Just another bit of info here. She has been sleeping in her parents bed since birth and just about a month ago, they tried to get her in her own room. Needless to say, the child told me on Monday, that her mom just moved her bed into her parents room. I am just going to do as I always have and have her take a nap with the other kids. She very clearly runs her household, but I will not allow her to run my daycare. I do need that break every day, and actually look forward to catching up on the laundry and cleaning at nap time. It is the only way, I can get my own chores done.

"She very clearly runs her household, but I will not allow her to run my daycare."???

I thought it was the parents to blame and not the child?
You Miss, are the very reason why I am a stay at home Mom. I can only imagine how you treat that little girl during the time in which she is at your house and Im sure if her parents knew that you were in need of some sort of assistance from a forum they most certainly wouldnt have their child in your care.

As for the others who run daycares out of their homes, I agree with the your house your rules policy.
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  #184  
Old 09-22-2011, 10:18 AM
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I too have children that will sleep till 4. But they didn't fall asleep till 2:30 or so. So, my point is, maybe she didn't fall asleep till towards the end of nap time, and I WON"T wake a sleeping child unless it is getting close to pick up time. At age 4, taking a 2/3 hour nap is common at my house. These kids get up early in the morning and their days are very busy.

As far as your child not wanting to go to bed at night. It has nothing to do with the nap at childcare, I would say it has more to do with how it is simply done at home. Kids have a way to get what they want at home.

I too have went thru the "Please don't let them sleep for more than 1 hour" because they won't go to sleep at home. Hmm, take out the tv and dvd player from their bedroom. Put them to bed at a descent time, shut out the light, and discipline them when they disobey. This is what is frustrating, the provider gets the blame for a child not wanting to sleep, yet the parent lets the kid lay in bed and watch tv.....this was the situation with me.

I have a kindergartener in my care, goes in the morning, and he gets back at 12:30, eats, and takes a 1 1/2 to 2 hour nap everyday. His days are very busy. I also have a first grader in my care, no school days, she lays down also, her choice to look at books or do something queitly, and 99% of the time she rolls over and goes to sleep.
I am a mother of 3 children ages 15, 5 and 4. I also ran a day care in my home for a while. I believe it is a joint effort by the parents and the providors to do what is best for the children. I see providors on this thread blasting parents. Maybe these are issues that should be talked about among the parents and the providors. After all, isnt that why many people choose a home day care instead of a larger center. That being said....my 4 year old has always been a good sleeper and was always in bed by 8 pm. There is NO tv and NO video games in his room which he has shared since birth with his brother that is one year older. Lately he has been having trouble falling asleep, he is simply not tired enough and we ARE a highly active family. He does nap at daycare but on weekends he doesnt. He naps at daycare because it is a routine he is used to. I feel he is ready to either stop napping or have shorter naps now. Due to him not being able to fall asleep until later, we have trouble getting him up in the morning. We are a dual career family and have to be up and out early in the morning. I know there is no definitive answer to this issue but I think it is a case by case basis. I was actually uncomfortable after reading some of these responses with the tone in what some providors are saying. I believe as a providor you have a responsiblity not to complain about the people who pay you to take care of their children in a public forum, bring those issues to the parent and you never know, it MAY just be a misunderstanding that can be cleared up really easily. Communication helps in so many ways.
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  #185  
Old 10-13-2011, 10:56 PM
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OMG. That is all I can say. I know that there has been tons of posts on nap problem issues so indstead of asking I thought I'd search...........and this is what I ended up reading untill 1 in the morning.
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  #186  
Old 10-13-2011, 11:29 PM
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I would say two hours is a healthy amount of time for a four year old
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  #187  
Old 10-18-2011, 07:49 PM
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I am a parent of a 4 year old and to be honest, I am appalled at the comments made by some daycare providers on this message board. Wow. Ms. Sue: "It's not the child with the issue- it's the parents - as usual". How presumptuous and wrong you are. I am a teacher, and we are taught that the parents are the first and most important "teachers" of their children.

My son, even though he does not need a nap would always nap given the opportunity-- placed in a quiet dark room...of course he would. So would I. And this was the case at his in-home daycare. I spoke with the provider, whom he loved, and she was as stubborn as you all, and said all kids must rest for those two hours. Since he was the oldest child at daycare, she was UNWILLING to make an exception for him. And since he regularly fell asleep, she did not listen to me, and ASSUMED that I was WRONG and she was RIGHT.

When he was at home, he never napped and was fine. He would go to bed at a reasonable hour (8:00) and wake up around 7:00. When he would go to daycare and had a nap, he consistently said "I'm not tired! I'm not tired!" at night and would be up until 10:30. This was not due to my LACK of parenting skills or ability. He was TRULY not tired.

Turns out, I pulled him from his daycare which he loved for this VERY reason. He is now at Montessori preschool and flourishing. They do not require a nap and he is doing lovely, on a regular schedule and learning/playing for two extra hours instead of being forced to nap. I am so happy I made this decision.

Parents know best. And if you are unwilling to meet a reasonable request in the best interest of the child then you shouldn't be practicing daycare.
Thank you!!!!!! Some people just aren't fit to be providers.
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  #188  
Old 10-19-2011, 08:49 AM
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Default very funny, my laugh for the day! and thankyou too!

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Some people really should not work with children or families. Nap time is not Breaktime- for providers to play on the computer! Some children are more active than others-my daughter is up all night on school nights, but when she is kept home, or is home on weekends has a beautiful sleep routine. It is clear to me what the problem is-She is awake for-what 4 hours of her day-why would she want to sleep at night. Not all parents have the liberty of staying home and caring for their own children-most of us put our children there because we have to! Get another job-if you can't put children's health before your break time!

Furious in MA!
For one you CANNOT force a child to nap, its merely a quiet time for those that need to nap or wind down. I'm CERTAIN the 4yr old in question is sleeping because he/she is exhausted because they are getting a lot of activity compared to being at home. For the children that don't nap most daycares have the child read on their mat ect. and fyi all providers use this time wisely to pick up, clean or plan activities.

The parents that complain about naps are always the ones that put them to bed early at night because they don't want to deal with them. And I hope when your child naps on the weekend your not on the computer, lol...
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  #189  
Old 11-02-2011, 02:42 PM
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Hello, I was having problems with my son's daycare provider requiring my son to take long naps, or lay on a cot quietly for 2-3 hours each day.

My son is 4.5 yrs old, his bedtime is 8:30pm every day, and we wake up at 7:30am every day. He would get dropped off at daycare around 8:30am every weekday. This was an in-home daycare, and she cared for about 6 other children during the day, too. Age ranged from 2 yrs-5yrs. As soon as I began bringing my son there, he began having sleeping problems at night. Before, he was always OUT at 8:30pm, when I put him in bed. But with this new daycare and the naps, he wasn't falling asleep until 10pm, but we still had to wake up at 7:30 each day, so this wasn't working. I went to the provider, explained that my son did not need a 2 hour nap and I questioned her and asked why he wasn't allowed to play or watch a movie, or SOMETHING, she told me that she needed 2-3 hours for her "break" and all the kids were required to lay quietly. I took my son out of this daycare, and got him into another one where he does not have to take naps because he is FOUR YEARS OLD and no longer needs one. Sure, he fell asleep, if you were forced to lay on a cot for 2-3 hours, would you not fall asleep???? How freaking boring is that??

What I do not understand is why do you need a 2-3 hour break? I work 8+ hours a day, too, and I get a 30-min lunch @ work, I do not get 2-3 hours to do whatever I please! I clean, do laundry, get on the computer, enjoy free time, etc, on the WEEKENDS or nights after my child falls asleep. I don't take a big honkin' break right in the middle of my work day, who does that!!? I was paying this lady to care for my son, if I tell you he does not need a nap, then he doesn't. I pay you! I have to do what my boss @ work tells me, what is the difference here? I expect the providers to do what is best for my child, & I will be the one to tell you what is best for my child, thank you very much.
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  #190  
Old 11-02-2011, 08:34 PM
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Hello, I was having problems with my son's daycare provider requiring my son to take long naps, or lay on a cot quietly for 2-3 hours each day.

My son is 4.5 yrs old, his bedtime is 8:30pm every day, and we wake up at 7:30am every day. He would get dropped off at daycare around 8:30am every weekday. This was an in-home daycare, and she cared for about 6 other children during the day, too. Age ranged from 2 yrs-5yrs. As soon as I began bringing my son there, he began having sleeping problems at night. Before, he was always OUT at 8:30pm, when I put him in bed. But with this new daycare and the naps, he wasn't falling asleep until 10pm, but we still had to wake up at 7:30 each day, so this wasn't working. I went to the provider, explained that my son did not need a 2 hour nap and I questioned her and asked why he wasn't allowed to play or watch a movie, or SOMETHING, she told me that she needed 2-3 hours for her "break" and all the kids were required to lay quietly. I took my son out of this daycare, and got him into another one where he does not have to take naps because he is FOUR YEARS OLD and no longer needs one. Sure, he fell asleep, if you were forced to lay on a cot for 2-3 hours, would you not fall asleep???? How freaking boring is that??

What I do not understand is why do you need a 2-3 hour break? I work 8+ hours a day, too, and I get a 30-min lunch @ work, I do not get 2-3 hours to do whatever I please! I clean, do laundry, get on the computer, enjoy free time, etc, on the WEEKENDS or nights after my child falls asleep. I don't take a big honkin' break right in the middle of my work day, who does that!!? I was paying this lady to care for my son, if I tell you he does not need a nap, then he doesn't. I pay you! I have to do what my boss @ work tells me, what is the difference here? I expect the providers to do what is best for my child, & I will be the one to tell you what is best for my child, thank you very much.
Be prepared...they will tell you that you are NOT the boss. You are paying for their service. If the program doesn't fit your needs, you need to find one that does. I hadn't ever realized quite how hot of a topic napping was until I started coming here.
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  #191  
Old 11-02-2011, 09:58 PM
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I was paying this lady to care for my son, if I tell you he does not need a nap, then he doesn't. I pay you! I have to do what my boss @ work tells me, what is the difference here? I expect the providers to do what is best for my child, & I will be the one to tell you what is best for my child, thank you very much.
If you were my at MY daycare, I would tell you to take your precious money & hit the road. YOU ARE NOT MY BOSS. "THANK YOU VERY MUCH!" I can very easily fill your position with a parent who knows how to read my handbook and follow my policies. No one puts a gun to your head and forces you to sign a contract for your daycare. It's up to YOU to determine where YOU want to put your child. Don't sign a contract and enroll your child if YOU are not happy with the rules. You WILL NEVER find a good daycare provider for your child if you keep up the attitude that you are their boss and they will do as they're told. If you want that, then you need to hire a nanny and shell out 4 times as much as you are paying for daycare right now. Parents like you are the ones we providers have nightmares over.
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  #192  
Old 11-02-2011, 10:38 PM
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Default Still Not Understanding This Big "Break"

Ok, you're right about the contract thing. It was not explained well in this provider's contract.

She stated that "Naps vary depending on daily activities, but usually last 2-3 hours and children are allowed to stay awake but must remain quiet if they cannot sleep" This is very vague and I should've addressed this at first, but I understood "children are allowed to stay awake but must remain quiet" as - my child will be allowed to play quietly with other children his age while the younger ones sleep. When actually, it was "your child will lay there and do nothing for 2-3 hours while I take care of personal things". My son was allowed to "read a book" while laying there. He cannot read, and no book you give him will entertain him and keep him quiet for 2-3 hours, he is going to get bored, and he will want to get up, but you will lay him back down and tell him to hush and he will eventually fall asleep out of boredom.

I was angry at this provider because she was disrupting my son's normal sleep schedule so that she could take her break. I do not get this. Why are you expecting us to pay you when you are taking such a large break? This is just unacceptable. & yes, technically, the parents are your boss. We write your paychecks, so make sure you make your nap policy very clear, and make sure that it caters to children who are old enough to stay awake. Make sure you are making the parents happy, the children happy, and if you are not happy then maybe this isn't a good line of work for you.

You do not need such a large break, nobody needs a break like that. You do not need to make a child lay there so that you can accomplish things that every other parent/person-who-has-a-job makes time to accomplish on the weekends, or after work. That is just ridiculous, and I refuse to pay someone to take a break like that while my son is laying there.
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  #193  
Old 11-03-2011, 03:07 AM
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Ok, you're right about the contract thing. It was not explained well in this provider's contract.

She stated that "Naps vary depending on daily activities, but usually last 2-3 hours and children are allowed to stay awake but must remain quiet if they cannot sleep" This is very vague and I should've addressed this at first, but I understood "children are allowed to stay awake but must remain quiet" as - my child will be allowed to play quietly with other children his age while the younger ones sleep. When actually, it was "your child will lay there and do nothing for 2-3 hours while I take care of personal things". My son was allowed to "read a book" while laying there. He cannot read, and no book you give him will entertain him and keep him quiet for 2-3 hours, he is going to get bored, and he will want to get up, but you will lay him back down and tell him to hush and he will eventually fall asleep out of boredom.

I was angry at this provider because she was disrupting my son's normal sleep schedule so that she could take her break. I do not get this. Why are you expecting us to pay you when you are taking such a large break? This is just unacceptable. & yes, technically, the parents are your boss. We write your paychecks, so make sure you make your nap policy very clear, and make sure that it caters to children who are old enough to stay awake. Make sure you are making the parents happy, the children happy, and if you are not happy then maybe this isn't a good line of work for you.

You do not need such a large break, nobody needs a break like that. You do not need to make a child lay there so that you can accomplish things that every other parent/person-who-has-a-job makes time to accomplish on the weekends, or after work. That is just ridiculous, and I refuse to pay someone to take a break like that while my son is laying there.
During my HUGE "break" I normally do the following:

Dishes from lunch and the morning.
Clean the dining room. Wipe down table, chairs, sweep and mop.
Prep snack for the PM.
Sweep hallways and front entrance.
Clean DC bathroom.
Paperwork
Eat lunch
Sterilize any toys that were mouthed that morning.
Prep any craft materials for the next day.
Lay out jackets, hats, mitts and boots for pm walk.

Lots of time left there to eat bon bons and watch soap operas.

We also work 10+ hour days NOT 8 hour days like the majority of the Monday to Friday workforce. Some of us work 12+ hour days...something I couldn't do. We also work very long stretches with no break at all. How often at your job do you need to "hold it" until you nearly burst because you can't leave your desk. It happens daily in our profession.

I DO NOT work for you. I provide a service and you pay for that service under my terms. The onus is on you to make sure you understand those terms and ask questions. If you don't like the terms you need to look elsewhere for service that fits your needs.

I totally understand that you want your child to go to bed easily for you but your child needs a rest and your DCP deserves a break. With all due respect if your child is falling asleep then they're tired and need a nap. I've had true non-nappers and they don't fall asleep.
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  #194  
Old 11-03-2011, 06:24 AM
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HeI expect the providers to do what is best for my child, & I will be the one to tell you what is best for my child, thank you very much.
You say: I know my baby best and I know what's best for my baby.

I say: I know my business best and I know what's best for my business.

What's best for my business is a LONG full afternoon break. It wouldn't work for your baby that you know best but it does work for my business that I know best.
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  #195  
Old 11-03-2011, 07:15 AM
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Default Sorry this is so long. If you take the time to read all of this, I'm impressed!

That IS really all it comes down to, that I need to find a provider who fits the needs of my child. But a lot of providers have these nap requirements, or "lay there for up to 3 hours" requirement. It made it difficult to find one that really didn't require that she take a long break. I understand that this is your business and you make the rules, I just don't understand how you expect to have happy customers, happy people that are willing to pay you and keep paying you, when you do not offer any services for children who do not need naps. No, my son does not need a nap. He will eventually fall asleep if he is made to lie quietly for such a long time. I would even do that, I guess I should make time at work for my three hour nap. I know you need time to clean up, do your paperwork, etc. But that should not take 2-3 hours, and you do not require that children sleep so that you can have that time. You make time as you go along.

I actually have hired a nanny to care for my son while I am at work, I ended that because I realized that I wanted my son to be around other kids, and get used to playing with kids his age. I completely understand that you need to take care of other things, but sometimes (all of the time, for me) these things need to be taken care of after work, or on the weekends. I take my work home with me every day; I work on it after I'd had time with my son, after he goes to sleep. On the weekends, I can stay up later after he falls asleep, because I do not have work the next day. I have worked 12 hour shifts. Before my son was born, I was at my office until 9pm sometimes. (I am an attorney and sometimes extensive research is required). I DID NOT take a 2-3 hour break. That is absurd. How would it be a 12 hour shift if I am taking a 3 hour break? That makes this a four hour shift, a long break, and then a five hour shift.

It is not required in my state that every child under a certain age have this quiet time. It is truly very difficult to find a provider that does not need this large break. I liked the "home-setting" and wanted an in-home daycare for him. This is not an option for us due to the nap thing, I refuse to change my son's great sleep schedule to accommodate a daycare. It is hard work to get a child on a sleep schedule, I will not be ruining that for the sake of someone's break. I am your client, you are not mine. I have my son in enrolled in a center now, as you know, this was not my first choice, but I am happy about it now. This center has a four year old class where the children do not have to rest quietly if they do not need to. My son does not get cranky and irritable due to the lack of a nap. He truly does not need a nap.

I don't appreciate anyone telling me that my child needs a nap after I have told them that he doesn't. I just want providers to PROVIDE what a child needs. This is the job you choose, you need to do that job. If you are unable to do that, your services are useless to me and I do not need you. Meaning, you will lose a client and lose money.

Last edited by Blackcat31; 11-03-2011 at 08:21 AM.
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  #196  
Old 11-03-2011, 08:04 AM
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That IS really all it comes down to, that I need to find a provider who fits the needs of my child. But a lot of providers have these nap requirements, or "lay there for up to 3 hours" requirement. It made it difficult to find one that really didn't require that she take a long break. I understand that this is your business and you make the rules, I just don't understand how you expect to have happy customers, happy people that are willing to pay you and keep paying you, when you do not offer any services for children who do not need naps. No, my son does not need a nap. He will eventually fall asleep if he is made to lie quietly for such a long time. I would even do that, I guess I should make time at work for my three hour nap. I know you need time to clean up, do your paperwork, etc. But that should not take 2-3 hours, and you do not require that children sleep so that you can have that time. You make time as you go along. I actually have hired a nanny to care for my son while I am at work, I ended that because I realized that I wanted my son to be around other kids, and get used to playing with kids his age. I completely understand that you need to take care of other things, but sometimes (all of the time, for me) these things need to be taken care of after work, or on the weekends. I take my work home with me every day; I work on it after I'd had time with my son, after he goes to sleep. On the weekends, I can stay up later after he falls asleep, because I do not have work the next day. I have worked 12 hour shifts. Before my son was born, I was at my office until 9pm sometimes. (I am an attorney and sometimes extensive research is required). I DID NOT take a 2-3 hour break. That is absurd. How would it be a 12 hour shift if I am taking a 3 hour break? That makes this a four hour shift, a long break, and then a five hour shift. It is not required in my state that every child under a certain age have this quiet time. It is truly very difficult to find a provider that does not need this large break. I liked the "home-setting" and wanted an in-home daycare for him. This is not an option for us due to the nap thing, I refuse to change my son's great sleep schedule to accommodate a daycare. It is hard work to get a child on a sleep schedule, I will not be ruining that for the sake of someone's break. I am your client, you are not mine. I have my son in enrolled in a center now, as you know, this was not my first choice, but I am happy about it now. This center has a four year old class where the children do not have to rest quietly if they do not need to. My son does not get cranky and irritable due to the lack of a nap. He truly does not need a nap. I don't appreciate anyone telling me that my child needs a nap after I have told them that he doesn't. I just want providers to PROVIDE what a child needs. This is the job you choose, you need to do that job. If you are unable to do that, your services are useless to me and I do not need you. Meaning, you will lose a client and lose money.
But we are happy to loose the money when you leave. That's the part you don't get. If we don't provide the "no nap" service then we KNOW when you say your child doesn't need a nap (whether as an infant or a five year old... same difference to us) then we KNOW you are going to move onto what works for your kid.

You want home providers to offer a service but you couldn't find one that did. That should tell you something right there. Just because YOU don't believe the provider should have a three hour break mid day doesn't mean the majority of the people on the ground actually DOING child care don't believe it. You are looking for something in the market that precious few provide.

Believe me you... if you were a provider who was willing to do a twelve hour haul without a BIG break mid day... you would be killing it in your business. Providers KNOW that we loose kids once the parent believes the child no longer needs a nap. We GLADLY have them move on..... it doesn't bother us a bit and it doesn't matter to us to what AGE your child is.

I would give up this business TODAY if I couldn't find customers that had children who needed a FULL afternoon nap every single day.

I can't do it so I don't offer it. It's not personal. Doesn't have a single thing to do with you... your kid... what your kid needs. I don't do nap for the sake of the children. I do nap for the sake of me.

You have a right to believe that I am wrong. You have a right to believe that my needing this long break is bad business.

I have the right to believe I'm doing it right for the last eighteen years and making bank doing it right. My money hasn't been affected a single thin dime over nap in 18 years. You saying it does or it should doesn't affect my bank balance at the end of the month.
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  #197  
Old 11-03-2011, 08:55 AM
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The whole "I have the right to believe/you have the right to believe" does not fix the fact that it is DIFFICULT to find a provider to care for a child for a full day, without naps. I just wish that providers were a little flexible. And yes, it took me a good deal of time to find a provider (had to be a center) that did not need the children nap so they could get a large break.

Let me show you an example of why I think this is wrong: You hire a landscaping crew to work on your yard for 5(about half your day, correct?) hours every Tuesday(9:00 am to 2:00 pm). You come home and find that they are taking a 1.5 hour break in the middle of their 5 hours(about half your break, correct?). This means that they are not working on your yard for 5 hours. They claim that they need this 1.5 hours to clean their equipment, eat some lunch, and just chill a little bit and get prepared for the next 2 hours of yard work. You would say "What?!" And you would fire them and hire a crew that actually worked on your yard for 5 hours.

Yes, perhaps this landscaping company would stay in business because some of their clients are still happy with the overall result of the yard work, and they don't mind the break. But, some people would NOT be happy about paying this company for 5 hours, when they only actually work on the yard for 3.5 hours. The company that needs the extra-long break would not be nearly as profitable as the company that worked 5 hours. All that other company would need to do is advertise "We Do Not Take 1.5 Hour Breaks When We Are Being Paid To Work 5 Hours". And they would win more clients.

I KNOW you need a break. But 3 hours, really? Maybe you could put in a 30 minute or an hour long movie for the older kids and take your break then. Parents are paying you A LOT of their hard-earned money because they think you are working equally as hard. I am just asking that some of you consider the needs of 4-5 year olds who are not yet in school and also are old enough to stay awake during the day.

This was truly a horrible issue with every in-home provider I considered. Why does it have to be so difficult to find someone to accept $600-$900 a month on the grounds that my child be cared for and NOT be told to lie on a cot for 3 hours? This is really a limited service, it SHOULD NOT be this difficult to find a provider to provide service to the mother of a normal four year old who doesn't need a nap. He is starting school next year, he will not be allowed to nap then. He does not need it, he functions great without it. He is happy, healthy, active and he is tired at 8:30pm. Can't any of you be willing to accommodate these children?

The center my son is at now is expensive, compared to the average price in my area. I know there are older children, who are not in school, who do not need naps. And I know that not all of the mothers of these children can afford to pay for this center my son attends. It would be such a great thing if you considered other options for children who do not nap. If you've been banking on the MUST TAKE LONG BREAK policy, maybe you should try banking on things for older kids to do during little-kid-nap-time. You make like the result of your efforts. I would guess it would make for an even better bank account and happier clients.

Last edited by Blackcat31; 11-03-2011 at 09:26 AM.
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  #198  
Old 11-03-2011, 09:14 AM
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Zoe Zoe is offline
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Oh my goodness! What is WITH THIS THREAD!? Do parents really get their answers from this thread regarding 4 year old nap times? Everyone sing it with me!!!: This is the thread that doesn't end....yes it goes on and on my friend!
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  #199  
Old 11-03-2011, 09:16 AM
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Mandy_Jane Mandy_Jane is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Unregistered View Post
I have worked 12 hour shifts. Before my son was born, I was at my office until 9pm sometimes. (I am an attorney and sometimes extensive research is required). I DID NOT take a 2-3 hour break. That is absurd. How would it be a 12 hour shift if I am taking a 3 hour break? That makes this a four hour shift, a long break, and then a five hour shift.
Obviously your mind can not encompass the thought that having 6-10 children around CONTINUOUSLY, is not the same as having QUITE time alone doing research on a case. I could handle 12 hours of ME time ANY DAY with no break. It's a no brainer, But add 10 kids in to the mix who need CONSTANT attention, diaper changes, feedings etc, and it's a WHOLE DIFFERENT BALLGAME. Why on earth you would compare childcare to quite time researching a case is beyond me. They are NO WHERE NEAR the same and do not require the same mental commitment.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Unregistered View Post
I don't appreciate anyone telling me that my child needs a nap after I have told them that he doesn't. I just want providers to PROVIDE what a child needs. This is the job you choose, you need to do that job. If you are unable to do that, your services are useless to me and I do not need you. Meaning, you will lose a client and lose money.
And I don't appreciate anyone telling me how to run my business. Plain and simple. Read my policies and take them or leave them. That's up to you. I assume you DO know how to read? Choose the childcare facility that works for you and your child after you have read and agreed to their policies.
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  #200  
Old 11-03-2011, 09:19 AM
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mismatchedsocks mismatchedsocks is offline
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Question:

Family daycare providers, who really gets a 3 hour break? I mean when I have infants I have no break ( for the last 6 years actually, this is the first time in a long time that ALL my kids are sleeping at one time, and in a few months another newborn starts, so there goes that "break")

And when I am not taking care of infants, or checking on the kids, changing poop that happens while they sleep ( a big one this month!?) I am getting art set up for next art, preparing snack and dinner. I also email parents, upload pictures to website from morning FOR parents, and then maybe I can go pee by myself, put my feet up and relax for 30 minutes of a 12 hour day.

Now I know parents work, lets say 8 hour days with 30 minute lunch. After work for these parents, who preps for the next days work, cleans up their work station, and does work related things at night? MOST leave after 8 hours, go pee during day whenever they want, eat lunch in silence, maybe even go out to eat, then work a few more hours, and head home. They DO NOT however, stay after work, not getting paid to clean their desk, get things ready for next day, etc. If these are things us as providers should do after work, then really I would work 13-14 hour days.

Just a thought.
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