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Daycare Center and Family Home Forum>Update On Independent Play Issue
mamamanda 07:43 PM 06-29-2014
Ok, so I posted previously about the family in my care who struggles greatly with independent play. I took a lot of your comments to heart and have been extremely consistent in telling dcb 2.5y.o. to "go play" all day long for 4 weeks now. I am so frustrated with the whole situation. Honestly, I would like to term over this, but DH is very against it and it would create a whole new set of issues for me.
So our day starts out with breakfast and circle time and then free play. The second I tell him to "go play" he starts picking on other kids, dumping totes, climbing on furniture, into everything, etc. I give him one warning and say either find something to play with or I will choose for you. He of course refuses screaming, "Don't want to play!" repeatedly at me. Then I move him to a designated blanket with a few activities I've selected for him since he won't choose for himself. I set a timer and make him sit there for 15 minutes. This is not independent play however, because I have to sit there daring him not to get up the whole time. Every time I turn my attention to another child, he is up and into something. Of course it's never the toys.
Then I move him to time out where he continues to scream "Don't want to play." After many failed attempts to keep him on the blanket or in the play area with other kids, I finally move him to a high chair so that he is at least contained. I put toys on the tray and tell him, "Time to play." Then he alternates screaming, "Don't want time out. Don't want to play repeatedly. I feel that its appropriate to let him sit in the high chair with toys for short spans of time, however mom doesn't even make him sit at the table to eat so of course if I ask him to sit there he thinks he is in time out. He throws the toys off the tray and then cries for them. I refuse to pick them up b/c he is doing it on purpose. I set the timer and when he gets up I again say, "Ok. Time to go play. Choose a toy or activity to play with. And the whole process starts over.
Uggh. It is draining. And the other kids are just as sick of hearing him scream as I am. Do you think its ok to insist he sit in the high chair for 15-30 minutes at a time throughout the day if he refuses to stay out of trouble? I feel like I'm restraining him, but I'm not trying to be mean. Just trying to keep him from hurting himself or someone else and encourage him to entertain himself a bit. However, none of the toys stay on the tray for more than about 2 minutes so he ends up just sitting there and crying. I honestly don't know what else to do. The main room we are in is gated off so he can't go elsewhere in the house and it is pretty well baby proofed as far as not much he could get hurt on, but he totally destroys the room in about 5 minutes.
Do you think I"m being unfair to him, or I should I keep being consistent with the "go play or sit in the chair and play" thing?
So our day starts out with breakfast and circle time and then free play. The second I tell him to "go play" he starts picking on other kids, dumping totes, climbing on furniture, into everything, etc. I give him one warning and say either find something to play with or I will choose for you. He of course refuses screaming, "Don't want to play!" repeatedly at me. Then I move him to a designated blanket with a few activities I've selected for him since he won't choose for himself. I set a timer and make him sit there for 15 minutes. This is not independent play however, because I have to sit there daring him not to get up the whole time. Every time I turn my attention to another child, he is up and into something. Of course it's never the toys.
Then I move him to time out where he continues to scream "Don't want to play." After many failed attempts to keep him on the blanket or in the play area with other kids, I finally move him to a high chair so that he is at least contained. I put toys on the tray and tell him, "Time to play." Then he alternates screaming, "Don't want time out. Don't want to play repeatedly. I feel that its appropriate to let him sit in the high chair with toys for short spans of time, however mom doesn't even make him sit at the table to eat so of course if I ask him to sit there he thinks he is in time out. He throws the toys off the tray and then cries for them. I refuse to pick them up b/c he is doing it on purpose. I set the timer and when he gets up I again say, "Ok. Time to go play. Choose a toy or activity to play with. And the whole process starts over.
Uggh. It is draining. And the other kids are just as sick of hearing him scream as I am. Do you think its ok to insist he sit in the high chair for 15-30 minutes at a time throughout the day if he refuses to stay out of trouble? I feel like I'm restraining him, but I'm not trying to be mean. Just trying to keep him from hurting himself or someone else and encourage him to entertain himself a bit. However, none of the toys stay on the tray for more than about 2 minutes so he ends up just sitting there and crying. I honestly don't know what else to do. The main room we are in is gated off so he can't go elsewhere in the house and it is pretty well baby proofed as far as not much he could get hurt on, but he totally destroys the room in about 5 minutes.
Do you think I"m being unfair to him, or I should I keep being consistent with the "go play or sit in the chair and play" thing?
cheerfuldom 08:02 PM 06-29-2014
what is your husband's issue with terming? can you not start interviewing to replace?
craftymissbeth 08:23 PM 06-29-2014
I have two that dump all of our toys. It wouldn't bother me too much except they trip on them and I almost tripped while holding a baby.
My solution was to remove ALL of our toys and to only bring in a small bin at a time. When all of those toys are picked up then I'll bring in a new bin or switch out a couple so they have something new.
If he's hurting people, though, then he doesn't deserve to play with the group. Do you have a superyard or PNP he can go in?
My solution was to remove ALL of our toys and to only bring in a small bin at a time. When all of those toys are picked up then I'll bring in a new bin or switch out a couple so they have something new.
If he's hurting people, though, then he doesn't deserve to play with the group. Do you have a superyard or PNP he can go in?
mamamanda 04:22 AM 06-30-2014
He can climb out of everything I put him in except the high chair. Climbs over gates & out of pnp. He is aggressive with other children. Dh is concerned b/c we need the income & they have more than one child in my care. I am getting ready to take a 6 week maternity leave & it would be hard to get someone to start for 4-8 weeks knowing I will be off for 6 weeks right after that. May be able to make some changes after baby if we can't find a solution.
mamamanda 04:24 AM 06-30-2014
Dumping toys wouldn't be such a big deal except that one of my dck has trouble with balance & falls on them regularly.
Heidi 07:17 AM 06-30-2014
How is he when you during those adult-led activities? Does he participate? Try to participate?
Have you tried modeling some play for him? Maybe he'd benefit from you sitting down and getting him started in play? Start with 15 minutes, then take a minute off each day.
If you have an older child in the group, could that child be involved and maybe more-or-less mentor him a bit?
It sounds like he is sensory-seeking. The "bull in the china shop" kid. Would his parents consider having him evaluated? Maybe he'd benefit from some OT, use of weighted vests, and heavy muscle "work". Even if they won't have him evaluated, maybe you could give him some opportunities to push, pull, lift, etc. Another thought is instead of approaching him with "your naughty" (sort of), you could try "you seem overwhelmed. Let's take some good, deep breaths and then try again".
I;m not diagnosing him, but perhaps some of these things sound like him? If so, you could try some techniques and see if they help. http://www.child-behavior-guide.com/...y-seeking.html
Have you tried modeling some play for him? Maybe he'd benefit from you sitting down and getting him started in play? Start with 15 minutes, then take a minute off each day.
If you have an older child in the group, could that child be involved and maybe more-or-less mentor him a bit?
It sounds like he is sensory-seeking. The "bull in the china shop" kid. Would his parents consider having him evaluated? Maybe he'd benefit from some OT, use of weighted vests, and heavy muscle "work". Even if they won't have him evaluated, maybe you could give him some opportunities to push, pull, lift, etc. Another thought is instead of approaching him with "your naughty" (sort of), you could try "you seem overwhelmed. Let's take some good, deep breaths and then try again".
I;m not diagnosing him, but perhaps some of these things sound like him? If so, you could try some techniques and see if they help. http://www.child-behavior-guide.com/...y-seeking.html
debbiedoeszip 08:53 AM 06-30-2014
I would try to incorporate more gross muscle activities into his day. More running and climbing, movement games, singing and dancing, outdoor exploration, sensory bins. Some kids that age aren't yet entertained by toys or pretend play. They need to move, explore, experience.
AmyKidsCo 01:14 PM 06-30-2014
ITA with Debbie... He sounds like he needs more large motor play! Inside, have you tried play dough? Maybe the effort of manipulating/pounding it will help too.
mamamanda 05:08 PM 06-30-2014
Heidi, I think you hit the nail on the head. He is very sensory seeking, but no matter what I do with him it doesn't seem to be enough. His sister has sensory processing disorder and used to receive several therapies, but mom has declined it saying there is nothing wrong with her and "we" meaning four therapists, an evaluator, and myself need to leave her alone and let her be a normal child. Because of that, I know mentioning having him evaluated would only cause more drama. I was incorporating a lot of the activities I'd seen them do in therapy into our day making it a group activity, not singling her out or anything. Mom got upset and wants me to leave her alone and let her be. He does really well with adult directed activities. He just can't handle any amount of time on his own. When I take him on outings such as to the library he is my best behaved child. I almost think he gets sensory overload because he gets really quiet and barely moves, just taking it all in. He does love playdoh and sensory bins which I use often, but he still tries to eat everything. Again, probably seeking the sensory input. I may try making peanut butter playdoh again so it won't hurt him if he eats it. I did that for a while, but it was extremely messy. Pretty much have to hose him down afterward. lol I have spent A LOT of time modeling play for him. I do sit and play with him quite a bit. It probably sounded like I just want him to entertain himself all day which isn't the case at all. We have a lot of structure to our day with circle time, crafts/coloring, group activities, etc., but we have free play for an hour each morning and each afternoon and those 2 hours of our day are miserable for all. We spend a lot of that time outside, but even then he is trying to climb the fence, tampering with the gates, or picking on other kids. If I put him in the sandbox he throws sand at the kids and gets it in their eyes. Just a really hard case.
Heidi 07:34 PM 06-30-2014
Originally Posted by mamamanda:
Heidi, I think you hit the nail on the head. He is very sensory seeking, but no matter what I do with him it doesn't seem to be enough. His sister has sensory processing disorder and used to receive several therapies, but mom has declined it saying there is nothing wrong with her and "we" meaning four therapists, an evaluator, and myself need to leave her alone and let her be a normal child. Because of that, I know mentioning having him evaluated would only cause more drama. I was incorporating a lot of the activities I'd seen them do in therapy into our day making it a group activity, not singling her out or anything. Mom got upset and wants me to leave her alone and let her be. He does really well with adult directed activities. He just can't handle any amount of time on his own. When I take him on outings such as to the library he is my best behaved child. I almost think he gets sensory overload because he gets really quiet and barely moves, just taking it all in. He does love playdoh and sensory bins which I use often, but he still tries to eat everything. Again, probably seeking the sensory input. I may try making peanut butter playdoh again so it won't hurt him if he eats it. I did that for a while, but it was extremely messy. Pretty much have to hose him down afterward. lol I have spent A LOT of time modeling play for him. I do sit and play with him quite a bit. It probably sounded like I just want him to entertain himself all day which isn't the case at all. We have a lot of structure to our day with circle time, crafts/coloring, group activities, etc., but we have free play for an hour each morning and each afternoon and those 2 hours of our day are miserable for all. We spend a lot of that time outside, but even then he is trying to climb the fence, tampering with the gates, or picking on other kids. If I put him in the sandbox he throws sand at the kids and gets it in their eyes. Just a really hard case.
Wow, yeah...Heidi, I think you hit the nail on the head. He is very sensory seeking, but no matter what I do with him it doesn't seem to be enough. His sister has sensory processing disorder and used to receive several therapies, but mom has declined it saying there is nothing wrong with her and "we" meaning four therapists, an evaluator, and myself need to leave her alone and let her be a normal child. Because of that, I know mentioning having him evaluated would only cause more drama. I was incorporating a lot of the activities I'd seen them do in therapy into our day making it a group activity, not singling her out or anything. Mom got upset and wants me to leave her alone and let her be. He does really well with adult directed activities. He just can't handle any amount of time on his own. When I take him on outings such as to the library he is my best behaved child. I almost think he gets sensory overload because he gets really quiet and barely moves, just taking it all in. He does love playdoh and sensory bins which I use often, but he still tries to eat everything. Again, probably seeking the sensory input. I may try making peanut butter playdoh again so it won't hurt him if he eats it. I did that for a while, but it was extremely messy. Pretty much have to hose him down afterward. lol I have spent A LOT of time modeling play for him. I do sit and play with him quite a bit. It probably sounded like I just want him to entertain himself all day which isn't the case at all. We have a lot of structure to our day with circle time, crafts/coloring, group activities, etc., but we have free play for an hour each morning and each afternoon and those 2 hours of our day are miserable for all. We spend a lot of that time outside, but even then he is trying to climb the fence, tampering with the gates, or picking on other kids. If I put him in the sandbox he throws sand at the kids and gets it in their eyes. Just a really hard case.
He and his sister must have a lot in common.
Maybe mom needs the perspective that "being a normal kid" is not all it's cracked up to be. EVERY person is different from the next. That's something to understand and celebrate; not something to disregard and hide.
Maybe try a different approach. What are his strengths? He's energetic, his gross motor skills are out of this world You just want to help him channel that in a positive way.
"DCM, I think dcb and his big sister have so much in common. I think YOU think that this is a bad thing, but I don't. I think it's something that makes him special. He's energetic, he's always trying to figure out how things' work. I just want that to be a positive thing for him; not something that makes him feel bad about himself. Let's figure out how we can do that, ok?
Your version of that?
Do you think any sort of calming/breathing exercises could help him? He needs some tools to calm the heck down.
Also..are there any charter schools in your area? Traditional school does not sound like something that will be a "good fit" for this guy. If you can get mom to think in terms of "special" vs. "different", she may celebrate vs. deny. Yeah, a little manipulative, but worth a try for his sake (and maybe yours).
Another thought: A lot of kids like this really benefit from martial arts. Something to keep in mind as he gets a little older.
mamamanda 04:57 AM 07-01-2014
Only calming tool I've found to work with him is lotion. When he gets really out of control I get a bottle of lotion & rub his arms & legs while talking really soothing to him. He loves that. I hadn't thought of trying breathing techniques. Will do that this week. That's a good idea about rephrasing it to talk to mom. I will give that some thought. No charter schools in our area that I'm aware of. Thanks for the advice!