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  #1  
Old 06-25-2018, 04:01 PM
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Default Parents Having A Copy of Your License

So just received an email from the licensing dept. As of July 1 all parents need to be provided a copy of our license for the childcare.

We all ready have to have one hanging on our wall-that to me is providing a copy to the parents. Not sure why we need to give them a physical copy to have.

I ask no other profession for a copy of their license.
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Old 06-25-2018, 07:03 PM
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Grrrrrr

What state?
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Old 06-25-2018, 07:48 PM
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That's dumb! The parents who never would have noticed the absence of a posted license will also never notice the absence of being handed one. Only serves to inconvenience the provider just a tiny bit more than they already have been!
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Old 06-25-2018, 11:32 PM
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Interesting, now does your hair dresser (or anyone else that needs to be licensed to provide a service) need to give you a copy of their license? If one business is required to do this than why not all? Or why is child care singled out?

Honestly If I had to do this I would scan it in, shrink it, and attach it as a photo into my hand book or at the bottom of the contract.
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Old 06-26-2018, 04:42 AM
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Originally Posted by 284878 View Post
Interesting, now does your hair dresser (or anyone else that needs to be licensed to provide a service) need to give you a copy of their license? If one business is required to do this than why not all? Or why is child care singled out?

Honestly If I had to do this I would scan it in, shrink it, and attach it as a photo into my hand book or at the bottom of the contract.
That was what I was thinking. I'd shrink it to the size of a dime.
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Old 06-26-2018, 05:47 AM
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I am all for it.

If that becomes the norm, running an illegal childcare will become exceptionally difficult to pull off. Penalties will also become stiffer. The charges would then include fraud because the parent would expect a copy of their license. Fake licenses would bring bigger charges.

We have to give parents a State handbook that summarizes the rules, their rights, responsibilities and gives them all of the contact information they need should things go south. I think that started back in the early 2000's. Our inspections are posted online, too.

One more step to make it harder for others to cheat the system is cool with me.
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Old 06-26-2018, 06:21 AM
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Originally Posted by Cat Herder View Post
I am all for it.

If that becomes the norm, running an illegal childcare will become exceptionally difficult to pull off. Penalties will also become stiffer. The charges would then include fraud because the parent would expect a copy of their license. Fake licenses would bring bigger charges.

We have to give parents a State handbook that summarizes the rules, their rights, responsibilities and gives them all of the contact information they need should things go south. I think that started back in the early 2000's. Our inspections are posted online, too.

One more step to make it harder for others to cheat the system is cool with me.
I agree with you in theory. The reason I consider it a waste of time is IMHO most parents using an illegally unlicensed daycare know but don't care until it bites them in the butt. I have to have my license posted "prominently" where parents can see it. Parents who care if I'm licensed usually ask right away. The ones who don't wouldn't notice if I had a flashing neon arrow pointing at it. I have to hand out a summary also. The back page is for the parents to sign, tear out, and return stating they've been given it by the provider. If I don't point it out and specifically say they have to return it I almost never get it back.

If this is part of actually a real plan to enforce rules on illegal daycare I'm all for it. Call me skeptical but this sounds like a classic "do nothing while looking busy" move.
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Old 06-26-2018, 07:04 AM
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If this is part of actually a real plan to enforce rules on illegal daycare I'm all for it. Call me skeptical but this sounds like a classic "do nothing while looking busy" move.
It has been discussed for years in public meetings. It also makes it easier to prove parents knew and hold them liable for choosing illegal care if something happens. I'd imagine it would not be a fun topic to defend in divorce or civil court, either.
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Old 06-26-2018, 07:04 AM
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Originally Posted by Cat Herder View Post
I am all for it.

If that becomes the norm, running an illegal childcare will become exceptionally difficult to pull off. Penalties will also become stiffer. The charges would then include fraud because the parent would expect a copy of their license. Fake licenses would bring bigger charges.

We have to give parents a State handbook that summarizes the rules, their rights, responsibilities and gives them all of the contact information they need should things go south. I think that started back in the early 2000's. Our inspections are posted online, too.

One more step to make it harder for others to cheat the system is cool with me.
It would be great... if parents knew what to expect when interviewing. Most don't know the regulations or what they're suppose to be informed on.
Heck, some don't even look through the paperwork at all.
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Old 06-26-2018, 07:04 AM
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I agree with you in theory. The reason I consider it a waste of time is IMHO most parents using an illegally unlicensed daycare know but don't care until it bites them in the butt. I have to have my license posted "prominently" where parents can see it. Parents who care if I'm licensed usually ask right away. The ones who don't wouldn't notice if I had a flashing neon arrow pointing at it. I have to hand out a summary also. The back page is for the parents to sign, tear out, and return stating they've been given it by the provider. If I don't point it out and specifically say they have to return it I almost never get it back.

If this is part of actually a real plan to enforce rules on illegal daycare I'm all for it. Call me skeptical but this sounds like a classic "do nothing while looking busy" move.
I agree with this ! Same here most parents dont even ask if I am licensed or care. I am the one that brings it up.
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Old 06-26-2018, 07:56 AM
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I see this as a logical way to address situations where parents do not know the differences in licensing classes.... certified or registered or licensed exempt or operating illegally all together.

Also isnít Oregon a state that allows a license holder and provider to be two different people? I thought I read something about additional training requirements for providers that arenít the license holders and the requirement to provide a copy of the license is one way the state is addressing this confusion.

I dunno I read a ton of state rules and changes and recently itís been harder to keep track as every state seems to trying to ďstep it upĒ from previous rules/regulations.

In my state (MN) our license must be posted in the physical facility but we also have a licensing look up site that allows the public to access almost ALL license holder,s information (including citations and fines) for anyone licensed under DHS.

This includes Family/Center child cares, foster care, short/long stay residential services, group homes and assisted living facilities etc...
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Old 06-26-2018, 08:14 AM
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My husband said to put it into my handbook but this starts July 1 and I'm not redoing handbooks for everyone.

I have never asked another profession who has to be licensed to have a copy.

It is to help with illegal childcare's but I rarely have anyone ask me about any of my "credentials". I bring it up, show the the "wall of fame" with all my certificates, license, etc.

I guess we also have to now show them with finding our states website that shows all our inspections, any valid findings, etc.

Wonder what will happen the first time someone's license is posted in someone else's house because we now have to hand them out?

Then with the push which is mainly from our community but I can see it in the future becoming a rule, for childcare providers to have to call when a child doesn't show up when scheduled.

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Old 06-26-2018, 08:40 AM
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Originally Posted by Cat Herder View Post
I am all for it.

If that becomes the norm, running an illegal childcare will become exceptionally difficult to pull off. Penalties will also become stiffer. The charges would then include fraud because the parent would expect a copy of their license. Fake licenses would bring bigger charges.

We have to give parents a State handbook that summarizes the rules, their rights, responsibilities and gives them all of the contact information they need should things go south. I think that started back in the early 2000's. Our inspections are posted online, too.

One more step to make it harder for others to cheat the system is cool with me.
YEP, Totally agree with this.....too many have let their license go but kept the same ratios and parents think they are still licensed.
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Old 06-26-2018, 09:42 AM
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YEP, Totally agree with this.....too many have let their license go but kept the same ratios and parents think they are still licensed.
That happens a lot around here; I have run into 3 this year alone, meanwhile I stick to the legal limit of 4 (I only have 1 at this time) and charge slightly more & I can't get kids because the illegals are undercharging everyone around.
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Old 06-26-2018, 09:50 AM
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I'd just print out a copy on paper watermarked with either "void" or "copy" across the face. Here, all information on my license is available online anyway, so there's really no issue of privacy (I gave up any hope of privacy long ago ).
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Old 06-26-2018, 10:04 AM
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I have never asked another profession who has to be licensed to have a copy.
In what type of situation would you need one?

No other profession is even comparable to child care so just curious what type of profession you feel this is also applicable?
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Old 06-26-2018, 10:29 AM
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In what type of situation would you need one?

No other profession is even comparable to child care so just curious what type of profession you feel this is also applicable?
I guess I was thinking of other providers who must have a license, like doctors usually hang their degrees and license to practice medicine on their office walls. Or nail/beauty salons, restaurants, ect. I dont think the services are comparable, but needing a license to operate is fairly standard. I guess I just dont get the point. I can understand how it may help show culpability to the parents, but it kind of seems like a waste of paper. On a side note, the amount of paper our government seems to waste with new regulations is kind of ironic since we have a whole bureaucracy dedicated to protecting the environment. they really need to get on the same page!
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Old 06-26-2018, 10:50 AM
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In what type of situation would you need one?

No other profession is even comparable to child care so just curious what type of profession you feel this is also applicable?
Lots of other professions need a license but do not need to hand them out, they just post on their walls for clients to see.

Doctors, Dentist, Nail Techs, Plumbers, Electrician's, Car Mechanics, Hair Stylists, Teachers, etc.

Then if you don't have a license for what your profession is but run a business you may need to have a business license but I'm never handed one of those either.
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Old 06-26-2018, 12:07 PM
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Originally Posted by Cat Herder View Post
I am all for it.

If that becomes the norm, running an illegal childcare will become exceptionally difficult to pull off. Penalties will also become stiffer. The charges would then include fraud because the parent would expect a copy of their license. Fake licenses would bring bigger charges.

We have to give parents a State handbook that summarizes the rules, their rights, responsibilities and gives them all of the contact information they need should things go south. I think that started back in the early 2000's. Our inspections are posted online, too.

One more step to make it harder for others to cheat the system is cool with me.
Agree!

I actually REALLY like this! We are now mandated to give parents access to our online licensing site. It's sparked great conversations with families about legal/illegal and what licensing entails.

We are to display our license prominently, as well as our inspection history.

I would just update my handbook to reflect the license, make it tiny, and send home parents a contract addendum with copy of the regulation.

Increasing parent education and awareness is a good thing, imo.
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Old 06-26-2018, 12:48 PM
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Default Sorry, I donít think I was clear...

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Originally Posted by Country Kids View Post
Lots of other professions need a license but do not need to hand them out, they just post on their walls for clients to see.

Doctors, Dentist, Nail Techs, Plumbers, Electrician's, Car Mechanics, Hair Stylists, Teachers, etc.

Then if you don't have a license for what your profession is but run a business you may need to have a business license but I'm never handed one of those either.
I know other professions need a license.

(bolder) how would that even be useful or necessary?

You also said earlier that you donít ask other professions for a copy so I am curious which profession youíd ask and why.
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Old 06-26-2018, 12:53 PM
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I guess I was thinking of other providers who must have a license, like doctors usually hang their degrees and license to practice medicine on their office walls. Or nail/beauty salons, restaurants, ect. I dont think the services are comparable, but needing a license to operate is fairly standard. I guess I just dont get the point. I can understand how it may help show culpability to the parents, but it kind of seems like a waste of paper. On a side note, the amount of paper our government seems to waste with new regulations is kind of ironic since we have a whole bureaucracy dedicated to protecting the environment. they really need to get on the same page!
Isnít most required paperwork in fcc a waste of paper?

I know lots of other professions that require a license, my question was why would a consumer NEED a copy (as their business is not comparable to child care).

CK used that logic as to why she thought it unfair to require Oregon providers to supplya copy so I was just curious why sheíd want or need one..
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Old 06-26-2018, 01:59 PM
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In what type of situation would you need one?

No other profession is even comparable to child care so just curious what type of profession you feel this is also applicable?
You donít need a copy of you providers license either. There is literally zero reason for it. Part of the required paperwork in my state includes collecting a receipt proving you provided them with licensingís contact info.
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Old 06-26-2018, 02:26 PM
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No one I have toured has ever asked to see my posted one (we are required to have a license here and we are required to post it). So if I had to hand them out, same would hold true, that not a single one would know that I am supposed to hand them one. So, this doesn't solve the problem of illegal, unlicensed places starting people up with care and providing care because obviously the parents wouldn't know they need to be handed a license copy- just like they already don't know I have to be licensed and have my license posted. If an illegal, unlicensed place never mentions it, the parents would assume it's legal just because they don't know anything about licensing.
I like the idea of every family getting a copy if regs. But I don't want to be responsible for printing and handing out. They should get it themselves from licensing! Ha, yeah right. Once it takes a little effort, never mind, they don't want it after all!
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Old 06-26-2018, 03:36 PM
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Originally Posted by Blackcat31 View Post
I know other professions need a license.

(bolder) how would that even be useful or necessary?

You also said earlier that you donít ask other professions for a copy so I am curious which profession youíd ask and why.
Nail/Hair Stylist-many run these out of their homes and how would I know if they are licensed through my state to do hair/nails and if they have a license to run out of their home

Electricians/plumbers/contractors-I would like to see their license before they come into where ever I'm needing their services and make sure they have something show they are licensed to do the service I have hired them for. If I'm having someone do work for me, want to make sure they know what they are doing and two they are licensed to do this job.

Real Estate Agent-Really don't want to get through the process of trying or buying a house to find out they aren't a real agent.

Insurance Agent

The list could honestly go on and on but I guess the point is, there are many professions out there that need a license but we don't ask or feel the need to see their license. I know I have read stories and I'm sure you all have where someone isn't the profession they say they are and your like how could that happen.

I feel what is happening is states are letting to many people slip through the cracks and because of the states mistakes, we know have to go through the extra steps in order to make things right.
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Old 06-26-2018, 04:36 PM
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Originally Posted by Blackcat31 View Post
Isnít most required paperwork in fcc a waste of paper?

I know lots of other professions that require a license, my question was why would a consumer NEED a copy (as their business is not comparable to child care).

CK used that logic as to why she thought it unfair to require Oregon providers to supplya copy so I was just curious why sheíd want or need one..
I guess it would also be a way for fake DRs or fake nurses etc to be charged same as an unlicensed provider. Oh wait I guess we assume all DRs are legit and deserve the respect of not assuming they are

I know of two DRs off hand who did not have a license to practice medicine but did it anyway in my province. Handing over a license might have prevented them from working for years.

I definitely see the point and think if it this way for providers it should be this way for all professions requiring a license to interact with the public. I feel it sends a message that many providers are operating without a license and it immediately assumes guilt and it is now up to the parents to police them. Why not employ people (or more people) to check licenses if they truly are worried.

Most providers here are legally unlicensed and we have been mandated to provide a written signed agreement explaining this to parents when they sign up. It makes legally unlicensed providers look bad. Why not make unlicensed providers illegal....oh wait we supply 85% of childcare!!
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Old 06-26-2018, 04:57 PM
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I guess it would also be a way for fake DRs or fake nurses etc to be charged same as an unlicensed provider. Oh wait I guess we assume all DRs are legit and deserve the respect of not assuming they are

I know of two DRs off hand who did not have a license to practice medicine but did it anyway in my province. Handing over a license might have prevented them from working for years.

I definitely see the point and think if it this way for providers it should be this way for all professions requiring a license to interact with the public. I feel it sends a message that many providers are operating without a license and it immediately assumes guilt and it is now up to the parents to police them. Why not employ people (or more people) to check licenses if they truly are worried.

Most providers here are legally unlicensed and we have been mandated to provide a written signed agreement explaining this to parents when they sign up. It makes legally unlicensed providers look bad. Why not make unlicensed providers illegal....oh wait we supply 85% of childcare!!
This is what I'm thinking-why daycare providers and not everyone who holds a license to work in their profession.
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Old 06-26-2018, 05:14 PM
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This is what I'm thinking-why daycare providers and not everyone who holds a license to work in their profession.
I personally think it is because of the way our profession is viewed in society. We are mostly seen as uneducated, lazy people who are trying to scam the system/parents. We are not seen as professionals deserving of trust. We need to be policed at every turn.
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Old 06-26-2018, 09:07 PM
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I see this as a logical way to address situations where parents do not know the differences in licensing classes.... certified or registered or licensed exempt or operating illegally all together.

Also isn’t Oregon a state that allows a license holder and provider to be two different people? I thought I read something about additional training requirements for providers that aren’t the license holders and the requirement to provide a copy of the license is one way the state is addressing this confusion.
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You don’t need a copy of you providers license either. There is literally zero reason for it. Part of the required paperwork in my state includes collecting a receipt proving you provided them with licensing’s contact info.
Maybe, maybe not ..... Oregon seems to have a specific issue (?)

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No one I have toured has ever asked to see my posted one (we are required to have a license here and we are required to post it). So if I had to hand them out, same would hold true, that not a single one would know that I am supposed to hand them one. So, this doesn't solve the problem of illegal, unlicensed places starting people up with care and providing care because obviously the parents wouldn't know they need to be handed a license copy- just like they already don't know I have to be licensed and have my license posted. If an illegal, unlicensed place never mentions it, the parents would assume it's legal just because they don't know anything about licensing.
True but it sure covers DHS’s butt

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I like the idea of every family getting a copy if regs. But I don't want to be responsible for printing and handing out. They should get it themselves from licensing! Ha, yeah right. Once it takes a little effort, never mind, they don't want it after all!
I’m required to give parents a summary of my state’s Family Child Care reglations/requirements—- I do it electronically via e-mail.
No additional cost or real time loss on my part.
I require parents to reply so I have proof.

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Nail/Hair Stylist-many run these out of their homes and how would I know if they are licensed through my state to do hair/nails and if they have a license to run out of their home

Electricians/plumbers/contractors-I would like to see their license before they come into where ever I'm needing their services and make sure they have something show they are licensed to do the service I have hired them for. If I'm having someone do work for me, want to make sure they know what they are doing and two they are licensed to do this job.

Real Estate Agent-Really don't want to get through the process of trying or buying a house to find out they aren't a real agent.

Insurance Agent

The list could honestly go on and on but I guess the point is, there are many professions out there that need a license but we don't ask or feel the need to see their license. I know I have read stories and I'm sure you all have where someone isn't the profession they say they are and your like how could that happen.
You are legally entitled to a copy though if you ask.

As I said previously, child care just isn’t comparable to any other business. Being a service provider for ANYTHING other than children just isn’t as regulated. When children are involved it invokes a different set of logic.

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I feel what is happening is states are letting to many people slip through the cracks and because of the states mistakes, we know have to go through the extra steps in order to make things right.
Exactly what so many providers (Annalee, Cat Herder etc) have been venting about.... Oregon just seems to be later in joining the circus...

I’ve been saying it forever... child care as we know it (knew it) will be non-existent before too long.

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This is what I'm thinking-why daycare providers and not everyone who holds a license to work in their profession.
A bad manicure or even a leaky plumbing job just isn’t comparable to providing care to a child.

As always it boils down to liability.
Depending on who’s tush is on the line or in the spotlight at the moment. *sigh*
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Old 06-27-2018, 12:09 PM
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I would argue that most parents would be more concerned that their plumber didnít have a license than their DCP! Toilets are precious!
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Old 06-27-2018, 12:58 PM
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I would argue that most parents would be more concerned that their plumber didnít have a license than their DCP! Toilets are precious!
My preschool toilet clogged first time in 21 years. Plumber came out and unpluggled-10 min work for 95 dollars. Had to have it done though as I wasn't about to clean out my entire private bathroom for the kiddo's to use.
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Old 06-27-2018, 02:51 PM
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Originally Posted by Country Kids View Post
My preschool toilet clogged first time in 21 years. Plumber came out and unpluggled-10 min work for 95 dollars. Had to have it done though as I wasn't about to clean out my entire private bathroom for the kiddo's to use.
Wish I could charge $95 for 10 minutes of work!
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  #32  
Old 06-28-2018, 01:38 PM
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One more thing for parents to throw on the floor of their car....

I have a copy hanging in my entry and parents can go online and check my record with licensing any time they want. In fact, I give them the web address and suggest they do so....as they should with any provider they are considering.

But giving yet another piece of paper is a waste.
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Old 06-28-2018, 01:54 PM
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Originally Posted by Cat Herder View Post
I am all for it.

If that becomes the norm, running an illegal childcare will become exceptionally difficult to pull off. Penalties will also become stiffer. The charges would then include fraud because the parent would expect a copy of their license. Fake licenses would bring bigger charges.

We have to give parents a State handbook that summarizes the rules, their rights, responsibilities and gives them all of the contact information they need should things go south. I think that started back in the early 2000's. Our inspections are posted online, too.

One more step to make it harder for others to cheat the system is cool with me.
That probably depends on what state you're in. Here in WI you can care for up to 3 unrelated children under 7 (no limit on how many over 7 or related children) without being regulated. Many parents don't know that, so when they're told the provider doesn't need to be licensed they believe it.

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I personally think it is because of the way our profession is viewed in society. We are mostly seen as uneducated, lazy people who are trying to scam the system/parents. We are not seen as professionals deserving of trust. We need to be policed at every turn.
To be fair, there are a lot of uneducated people calling themselves child care providers and a lot of scammers out there, who ruin it for the rest of us.
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Old 06-28-2018, 04:15 PM
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I guess now after they sent out a email last week stating we need to start handing them out starting July 1, they are taking a vote on it.

WHY THEN SEND AN EMAIL SAYING WE HAVE TO DO THIS IF IT ISN'T A FOR SURE THING.

There was a meeting of some kind today and after hearing about how no one was happy with this they decide to vote on this.

I think nothing should go out till it is a for sure thing!
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Old 06-29-2018, 08:15 AM
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Now we do not need to give parents a copy of our license.

The state will be sending us paperwork stating the parent has seen the license and is signing off the paperwork to confirm this. It then goes into the file of the child.

Not sure how this will stop illegal childcare's as it is only for children who are enrolled into your childcare, not interviewing.
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