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  #1  
Old 09-22-2010, 05:40 AM
DancingQueen DancingQueen is offline
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Default Give Me Strength - Tell Me This Will End

I mentioned 2yr dcb that was hitting, pushing etc. non stop.

Today he has been in TO 3 times (he has been here 1 hour) and he just bit my daughter so bad that he almost broke skin.

I am at the end of my rope - but this HAS to work out because I can't afford for it not to.

I've had him in the same room as me this past week (someone here suggested it) and it has lessened the incidents. But it isn't solving it all together. The only reason it is limiting it is because I catch him mid air or mid push. But he doesn't care that I'm right there.
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Old 09-22-2010, 05:49 AM
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Some things you should look into our is there lack of parenting at home, does the child seem different then the other children like he may be special needs such as ADHD, SPD, etc.. Talk to the parents about his behavior DAILY they need to know what their Son is doing so they can address this with him at home also. Also does his behavior seem normal of what a 2 year old does or does it seem more aggressive? If time out isnt working and it doesnt sound like it is you have to find what will work such as telling him if he misbehaves today he has to sit with you when you go outside to play, go to the park, etc. you have to find what bother him the most as that will sink in more.
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Old 09-22-2010, 06:10 AM
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do you have my kid, because i don't know what to do either. Its so bad that this kid tries to chock the other dcg. The other day I saw him push her on her face so he grabbed her juice cup out of her hand and ran and he didn't care either that i saw him. I put him in time out so much the other day it was crazy, but his idea of time out is, is that after a few seconds he would leave so I would put him back. Then after that didn't work I put him in a highchair and made him sit there. then he got mad and he ripped his glasses off. I've talked to mom but she was no help. I think he's hitting because his brother is hitting him and maybe mom or dad but dad likes to watch the kickboxing on tv and I think he's repeating it. I'm at my wits end, that I can't even go to the bathroom. I can't even take them outside because of this behavior.
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Old 09-22-2010, 06:12 AM
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If you haven't talked to the parents you need to. Then praise the heck out of any good behaviors he shows. Have him be your helper getting projects ready, picking the book to read, etc. Give him more resposibilities. Also, talk to him and listen. He sounds like he doen't know how to express his emotions so bites and hits because it works. He gets attention.

If you have given all of these things a very good try, i'd start to adverstise his spot. I think you have grounds for terming if you choose to do so.
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Old 09-22-2010, 10:29 AM
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thanks for letting me vent earlier. Sometimes just the venting alone makes me feel better.

*I do tell mom. Every day. Even today after the bite I texted her. She is a wonderful (single) mom really trying her best but this kid is ridiculously coddled. She says "I try time-outs with him at home but he just cries and cries and I don't know what to do" I give her advice when she asks (and she does ask) but I don't want to overstep.

*I think he is rarely around other children (except for here) so mom doesn't get to see much of this and the few times she does I think he is getting the "that wasn't very nice - now say sorry" and he smiles and says sorry and everything is hunky dory. I've caught him saying sorry AS he is swinging here. I think mom needs to see him around other kids more often and I think she needs to react strongly when he pulls this stuff.

*I don't believe there are other factors (like ADD or ADHD) in play here. I'm going with my gutt of course because I'm not qualified to make that sort of call. But I've been around kids my entire life and I just don't see it here.

*He ACTS like a kid that doesn't know how to express himself. But he isn't. He speaks clearly - better than any of my other kids. If someone is in his space he uses his words. If he wnats something he asks for it. If someone hits him he shouts NO HIT. He has great speach for his age.

My own take on it is it is as if he has a box around him (we all do though, don't we?) and he doesn't want people in his box. IF they go in his box he pushes them out. but here is the tricky part. If he brings his box to you then you still get pushed out. If he walks to close to someone he pushes them out of his box. So he'll charge down my hallway just knocking kids out of the way as he goes.
He also is flabbergasted when someone hits him. So you'd think that would help - but it doesn't.
If someone has something he appears to think he should get to just take it. He walks up to kids all day long and takes things away from them. and if they defend they get hit or bit.
the other thing I've noticed is if anyone is having any sort of fun he has to not only be a part of it - but push everyone else away from it.
So if I am sitting on the couch reading a book to one dcg while everyone is playing and he sees dcg smile. he will come up to the couch - sit next to her - and attempt to push her off the couch.
and it isn't just attention from me. If my dd and dcb are on a chair watching a show he will pull dcb off the chair to sit there.
or
if someone is dancing in the kitchen to the music I put on. He will yell at them to stop - push them out of he way and dance right where they were dancing.

It makes our days so miserable

He isn't here on Thursdays and I LIVE for Thursdays.

I have open spots and I'm not getting any calls right now - I can't lose his income.
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  #6  
Old 09-22-2010, 12:03 PM
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I had this same type of problem with a child once, and after I found myself at wits end I decided that it was not fair to the other children to contantly have to defend themselves so I bought one of those big, folding play yards and set it up at one end of the room and put him in it with a several toys and things to do during free play time. It wasn't my aim to punish him, really, just to protect the other kids from being constantly pushed, hit and bitten. I thought it would be upsetting to him, but actually he liked it just fine, and his parents were on board with it too, since the alternative was going to be me terminating his care. It took a good bit of time, but eventually he just outgrew the aggressive behavior and I was able to eliminate the play yard gradually as he learned to manage his feelings better.
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Old 10-13-2010, 05:54 AM
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ok - no end in sight.
I'm losing it.
He just won't keep his hands to himself.
His mom is in complete denial. Sometimes I think we're talking about 2 separate kids.
I texted her this morning because he's been hitting (aggressively) all morning.
I wanted to know if something was off - maybe he didn't sleep or woke up "off".
She said she is at a loss because he is such a good boy. He is never around other kids so I told her she needs to haev him around other kids more or she'll never see what I see and I think that he needs to have HER respond to these behaviors as well as me.
She said she brought him to a birthday party this weekend and he was an angel. There was a girl there that was aggressive and mean and he handled it well and never hit back or anything. She was saying how this girl was so mean and a bully.
Well guess what? THAT IS YOUR KID HERE!!!

I'm at the point where I may need to consider removing him. I don't want to because financially I can't do it - but really - at what cost do I keep him here?
I adore his mom I really do and I don't want to have to term him. But I see NO end in sight at all.

How do you term someone? EEEEK
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Old 10-13-2010, 06:03 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sbschildcare View Post
ok - no end in sight.
I'm losing it.
He just won't keep his hands to himself.
His mom is in complete denial. Sometimes I think we're talking about 2 separate kids.
I texted her this morning because he's been hitting (aggressively) all morning.
I wanted to know if something was off - maybe he didn't sleep or woke up "off".
She said she is at a loss because he is such a good boy. He is never around other kids so I told her she needs to haev him around other kids more or she'll never see what I see and I think that he needs to have HER respond to these behaviors as well as me.
She said she brought him to a birthday party this weekend and he was an angel. There was a girl there that was aggressive and mean and he handled it well and never hit back or anything. She was saying how this girl was so mean and a bully.
Well guess what? THAT IS YOUR KID HERE!!!

I'm at the point where I may need to consider removing him. I don't want to because financially I can't do it - but really - at what cost do I keep him here?
I adore his mom I really do and I don't want to have to term him. But I see NO end in sight at all.

How do you term someone? EEEEK
DO you have something written in your contract- regarding termination? I have - I have the right to terminate this contract at anytime due to behavorial, causes harm to other children, or if the rules and policies are not followed. Have they paid thru the week? It depends on what is in your contract, on what you can do. I once had a boy that bit within the first hr. of being here his first day, I place him in time out, he kicked and kicked the door in the timeout room so much, I had to call his Mom, he didn't return, he also kicked andhit me, placing him in there. WOW!!!!! He didn't return!!
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  #9  
Old 10-13-2010, 06:07 AM
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this is my wording.


Quote:
A deposit of one week’s tuition is required, which will be applied to the child’s last enrollment period. This deposit will be forfeited if care is terminated with less than two weeks notice.

This contract may be terminated at any time, for any reason by either party with proper notice. Proper notice will consist of written or verbal notice to the provider not less than two weeks prior to the child’s last day of care. If you choose to terminate care with less than proper notice, you agree to forfeit the entire deposit. In addition to the deposit, regular tuition charges will apply for the remaining time your child is in care and will be prorated for the number of days your child remains.

If at any time, after consultation with the parent or guardian, I feel that you or your child pose a safety risk to myself or any of the children in my care, I will give you as much written notice as possible that care is terminated. This action will be reserved for extreme cases only, and I will first attempt to resolve any issues with you before resorting to termination of care. Under these conditions, forfeiture of the deposit will be at my discretion.
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Old 10-13-2010, 06:10 AM
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[quote=sbschildcare;46939]thanks for letting me vent earlier. Sometimes just the venting alone makes me feel better.
"My own take on it is it is as if he has a box around him (we all do though, don't we?) and he doesn't want people in his box. IF they go in his box he pushes them out. but here is the tricky part. If he brings his box to you then you still get pushed out. If he walks to close to someone he pushes them out of his box. So he'll charge down my hallway just knocking kids out of the way as he goes.
He also is flabbergasted when someone hits him. So you'd think that would help - but it doesn't.
If someone has something he appears to think he should get to just take it. He walks up to kids all day long and takes things away from them. and if they defend they get hit or bit.
the other thing I've noticed is if anyone is having any sort of fun he has to not only be a part of it - but push everyone else away from it.
So if I am sitting on the couch reading a book to one dcg while everyone is playing and he sees dcg smile. he will come up to the couch - sit next to her - and attempt to push her off the couch.
and it isn't just attention from me. If my dd and dcb are on a chair watching a show he will pull dcb off the chair to sit there."


I think you just nailed your solution right on the head. My SIL had a boy exactly like this when she was doing daycare (this is when I was a working mom and she was watching my then 18 mo daughter). She actually caught this boy choking MY DD and leaving red marks on her neck!!! I was so distraught over this, I almost pulled my daughter from my SIL daycare even though she was family. Thank god my SIL caught this, b/c he would have seriously injured or killed her had it continued. If something like this happens to one of the other dck's in your care, you may end up having everyone take their kids out b/c of this one little boy. It is NOT fair for your kids and other dck's either. They deserve to have a safe environment where they are not constantly in fear that this boy will be violent with them.

My SIL had one solution to this since his mom wasn't much help. For a couple weeks after his offense against my daughter, he had to carry a hoola hoop around EVERYWHERE he went. If he sat down, it was on the ground in the middle of his hoola hoop. He had his own personal space this way and no one could even get close. He also could not play or do anything other than follow my SIL around wherever she went. Believe it or not, it really did work. He was much less violent after this, but she still never let him leave the room without her being right by his side. She never trusted him again.

A two year old is too young to carry around a hoola hoop all day long, BUT I think you could easily get a big box, cut the top and bottom off, and attach a pair of elastic suspenders to the sides. You may have to make a few adjustments for them to stay on the boys' shoulders, but this way he will be stuck inside a box all day long, not able to reach or hit anybody. He'll still be able to walk around without having to carry the box. If you need help visualizing, look up how to make a Thomas the Train homemade costume. This way, no one can invade his space. If he cannot keep his hands to himself, he should not be allowed to get near anyone.

Hang in there, and don't be afraid to term if it doesn't work out. Advertise his space ASAP so hopefully you get a replacement soon.

Last edited by Lilbutterflie; 10-13-2010 at 06:12 AM. Reason: The quote box didn't show up
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  #11  
Old 10-13-2010, 06:20 AM
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first off IMO just because acts he like this does NOT mean its adhd or special needs as a PP said....thats crazy even say suggest that IMO

its very normal at this age to express themselves with hitting,pushing,biting esp. when their language skills are still developing.

I praise the good behaviors. i had a biter in care who bit ...but only the less aggressive kids. i had to shadow his every move, bring him w/me everywhere. it was tough! its a decision you need to weigh. if its causing others to get hurt on a daily basis i would consider terminating. i personally would not want my child gettting hurt at daycare every day esp. bitting...i have a 3 bite rule. third time the child gets a 2 wk notice. to terminate. ....sometimes it takes a paretn to be warned w/term. for them to acknowledge the problem.

now i did have a past biter who was a single child so she wasnt around many kids for long periods like daycare. mom was awesome and i felt was honest.
we both felt she only did it here. i had to find the cause so i could address it. turned out she just lacked communication skills and used biting to communicate her anger (sharing,taking turns,etc) ...she was 16months at the time it started. i sadly had to terminate because she didn't understand and others were getting hurt. i cant risk loosing many parents vrs. one...mom understood but WAS hurt...i just expressed that i cant risk others...some kids are just more prone to aggressive behavior.

i think what your doing is good esp. communicating w/the parents.
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Old 10-13-2010, 06:27 AM
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I did want to add that one thing that drives me batty with mom.
She KNOWS he does this every day - sometimes all day long.
So she texts me 1/2 way through the day to ask how he is doing
I respond with the truth (which isn't always good) and she doesn't say another word
doesn't even acknowledge what I've said.
That bugs the shat out of me
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Old 10-13-2010, 06:36 AM
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Do not be afraid to term a biting, hitting, pushing kid. If you are worried about losing his income, you need to think about losing the other well-behaved kids' incomes as the parents pull their kids out due to injury. Set a limit of the # of incidents you are willing to tolerate and tell mom that you are at your final warning. At least, that's what I would do
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Old 10-13-2010, 07:11 AM
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I termed for aggressive behavior. Well, it was more than just that, but that was the start of it.

20mo dcb started hitting, pushing, screaming/screeching. One day he was mad at me and turned around to stomp on the infant who was laying on the floor playing. Thank God I saw what he was going to do and grabbed his arm so he didn't actually make contact, but it was very close! Told mom about it and she begged me to work with him for 2 more weeks to see if we could combat this. I did, it didn't really get any better, and then mom started flaking out, so I termed them

I agree with the others who said you don't want all your well behaved children to leave because of this one aggressive child!
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Old 10-13-2010, 07:31 AM
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Not sure how this would work for you, but I had a super aggressive/mean child in care. Every time he had an incident, I documented and when he reached 3 "incident reports" in one day, I called mom and had him picked up immediately. We did this almost daily for two weeks. I told mom up front that I was willing to work with her to solve this problem but I also had to look out for the safety of the other children as well. I say work with her because this is her child and should be her problem to fix, not yours. I know it is sometimes a burden to parents to have to leave their jobs to pick up their kids, but come on, it is their child and they should have to figure out a plan of action for their child's behaviors. If this child were in school, that is exactly what would happen. I was always taught that people fix problems only when the problem becomes theirs. Right now it sounds like this kids problem is yours. It should belong to the parent. You can assist and aid her in what ever way you two work it out, but ultimately, this is her child and she needs to figure out a way to discipline him. I've had to take this plan of action 3 times in 16 years and all 3 times, the issue was solved in a positive manner because the parent (who is the child's ultimate source of authority and guidance) took control. One of those children is now 13 and is my summer helper.....couldn't be a better kid!!!

On a side note, I TOTALLY agree with the other gals, you are gonna start having other families leave if this little one continues behaving this way.
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Old 10-13-2010, 07:43 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by missnikki View Post
Do not be afraid to term a biting, hitting, pushing kid. If you are worried about losing his income, you need to think about losing the other well-behaved kids' incomes as the parents pull their kids out due to injury. Set a limit of the # of incidents you are willing to tolerate and tell mom that you are at your final warning. At least, that's what I would do
I agree!!! It is not worth keeping and having your child or worse another child getting hurt or bitten!!! Be careful, you may start loosing other children, families because of this one!!!
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Old 10-13-2010, 07:54 AM
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BentlyBands I did NOT say it WAS ADHD I said LOOK into every possiability. Its people like YOU who have NO idea HOW HARD it is to have a SPECIAL NEEDS CHILD. I WISH I had someone tell me something was wrong with my Son when he was 2 and just as agressive as this little boy instead of saying it was NORMAL toddler behavior because it was NOT he is SPECIAL NEEDS and I didnt find out till he was 5 BECAUSE everyone kept saying his behaviors where normal when they where NOT luckly he has gotten the help he needs and is doing well BUT his toddler years would of been ALOT easier for him if he would of gotten the help he needed then.
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Old 10-13-2010, 08:19 AM
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I was curious to see if there was any progress with the biter. I also wanted to share a few things that I've picked up along the way that have helped me because although toddlers and biting is relatively normal behavior, it does not mean it is acceptible behavior.

It's great that you are working with the child to get him to stop but I would suggest keeping it even more simple. Keep shadowing him but try to make it seem as though you are not doing it so that he doesn't realize that you are giving him extra attention. Remember that with kids negative attention is still attention to them, they might actually be biting to get attention. Intervene when he is about to do something or has done something and firmly and calmly but simply say "No bite", "No hit", "No throw" etc. Be careful not to get angry with him or show frustration. Stay calm and don't overreact because this reaction might excite him even more.

I found that instead of using time outs for a child that bites just saying "No bite" and then moving him as far away as possible from the other child and ignoring the biter for a few minutes works better. Then you can focus on the child that was biten. He may then realize that "Hey, when I bite she doesn't pay attention to me. She pays attention to the person that I bite".

Also I occasionally remind the biter that "Biting hurts, owie" when the child is not doing any biting at all. This just reminds them that biting is not ok. Then a quick hug and big smile and say "Thank you for not biting" or "You're being so good. No biting yay!". Be excited when he is being good (positive reinforcement) and following the rules.

You know I took a training about discipline and behavioral challeges and they actually say to avoid asking the parent to pick up the child after biting/hitting because this can actually reinforce the habit of biting. Usually toddlers bite/hit because they are jealous, overly tired, teething, frustrated, angry, there have been recent major changes at home or in daycare, the child has too much structure, not enough structure, or just to see what happens. Remember that they are toddlers and learning about their surroundings and cause & effect. Also being picked up and taken home because they are being "bad" can add to any anxiety.

You can talk to the mom again and show her what your routine is at daycare and what you do if this happens and then ask her what her routine is at home and suggest that she stick to it religiously (or create a routine if she doesn't have one already) and adopt your method of handling the biting issue so she can do this at home. Having a routine and being consistent in both the daycare and at home can relieve some of his anxiety. Oh and make sure that mom is giving him enough sleep at home. This method has worked for me and the kids that I have/had had and actually pretty much works well whether it's biting, hitting, pushing or throwing things at kids. Keep us posted.
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Old 10-13-2010, 09:30 AM
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MarinaVanessa those are all great suggestions - a lot of them I've used with him but a few I might try.
I think the hardest part is that he does NONE of this behavior at home. But part of the reason is that he is NEVER challenged at home. As I've said before he is an only child lives with mom, gramma and grampa. He gets anything he wants whenever he wants it. He is catered to constantly and they admit to it.
Gramma said "we don't say no to him because we don't need to - the stuff he wants is all with in reason"
So the child is NEVER told no. LOL
So when he comes here he thinks that every toy he can have whenever he wants it. Every seat he wants to sit in, every book he wants to read.. etc....
So those instances make sense to me.
the times when he just walks up to someone and slaps them.. those are the times I just don't see coming and I don't understand what is behind it.
Today he was getting in the car seat.. he has to pass my 1 year old in her seat to get to his seat. She didn't touch him at all.. He swats at her and yells "NO HIT"
I saw the entire transaction - she wasn't even looking in his general direction.
Or today when my daughter was playing with her magna doodle and he wanted to watch. She let him watch - then she handed him the pen and let him have a turn. He took the pen thens pit on the magnadoodle and pushed her and said "NO HIT" ?????
When it is about sharing or him taking toys or someone in his space - I can usually catch those mid-swing. But the ones like I just described? I just don't see them coming. They are often times whenI'm RIGHT THERE when I have him in the same room as me so no one gets hurt. And he always stops after and smiles at me with that "I'm the sweetest little boy in the world" smile. And it is quite honestly getting hard for me to treat each new instance as a single event. By time 3pm rolls around I've had it. And I think I start showing my frustration.

This morning I went into the living room to turn off the TV
I went to walk down the hall to the play room and I notice he isn't in the play room.
I asked my dd where he was and she said "he went that way"
I head back down the hall and he is sitting in the time out chair with that same smile on his face
I asked him why he was there and he said "I bit Ella"(mydd)
I go into the play room and ask Ella if he bit her and she started getting teary eyed and showed me his teeth clearly on her arm. I asked her why she didn't tell me and she said "I didn't want him to have to go to time out again"
She loves this little boy. And so do I. But c'mon!
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Old 10-13-2010, 09:34 AM
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He took the pen thens pit on the magnadoodle
that should read
Quote:
He took thep en then SPIT on the magnadoodle
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Old 10-13-2010, 09:43 AM
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that kiddo has to go.
You will start to lose your other clients if you don't term the naughty lil guy.
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Old 10-13-2010, 09:47 AM
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I would document every time, it will be a pain,.. maybe make a deal out of it,.. Isaac, this is your occurance notebook. Each time you are mean to someone or have to go to time out we will write the reason why. date and mention every single thing, what happened, what you did. Then I would give the other kids hand stamps for good behavior,... at pickup time,.. and then when he asks for his get out the notebook,... read through what happened. "sorry Isaac, maybe tomorrow you wont have any " writes". And you can have a handstamp too. But today you did not behave and you will not get a handstamp. Maybe on fridays, let the kids who had 3 or more handstamps watch 5 min of cartoons before nap? (Ive done this and it worked for me)
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Old 10-13-2010, 10:52 AM
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Yes document, document, document. This boy is a toughie but you nailed it right on the head. He doesn't do this at home because at home there is no one to compete with and he is never challenged. If you are adamant to try to resolve the issue or at least work with them I would highly encourage that they punish at home for something done in DC. I wouldn't normally feel this way but it seems like he is not being taught that this behavior is wrong at home because he has no reason to challenge them. For example, if he bites then have one/many toys taken away at home. "Today you bite [child]. No toy" or something like that.

It seems to me like you have already tried many things and it is just not working out. He knows that its wrong, he put himself in time out for crying out loud, but he still does it. Obviously he thinks that the punishment isn't that bad. *sigh* I don't think you have a choice here but to either send home or to terminate. You have tried many things already. Now you have to think about the rest of the group.
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  #24  
Old 10-13-2010, 11:07 AM
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I had the same kid today sit on the younger one, but mom keeps saying thats how they play at home (the 2 brothers) but come on, I now send him to the corner all the time, I don't put up with nothing anymore. Sometimes he spends more time in the corner sometimes only once a day. Like yesterday, mom is telling me how he threw his glasses under her bed and she couldn't find them, well here he gets punished if he takes his glasses off (the other kids also tell me) how are his eyes going to get better if he doesn't wear them. And then he poured coffee on the library books and mom had to pay for the damage, and she just made up an excuse, oh he was tired, he's 2 give me a break.
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Old 10-13-2010, 08:16 PM
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I term'd a dcg a couple of months ago for similar behaviors - I just couldn't leave the room without hearing another of her "victims" scream - it was terrible. Lots of explaining to the other dcps.....AND it was hard b/c I adored her, but her Mom was in complete denial and was beginning to question ME and whether I was being truthful. I cannot explain to you the RELIEF on the faces of my other dcps when they found out she would no longer be with us. The days are peaceful now. Good luck!
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Old 10-13-2010, 09:12 PM
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Originally Posted by Iowa daycare View Post
I agree!!! It is not worth keeping and having your child or worse another child getting hurt or bitten!!! Be careful, you may start loosing other children, families because of this one!!!
i agree. my son was being bitten on a daily basis, usually multiple times, by the same kid when he was in daycare. she didn't bite anyone else - just him - and the teachers said it was for no reason. she'd just run up and bite him and he never retaliated. they tried observing and documenting to find her "triggers" but there really weren't any. finally, my husband and i went together to talk to the director and told her she would either have to move the biter, move my son (to another room) or we were taking him out - and i mentioned how sad it was that a "good kid" was going to have to leave because of an out of control child. luckily, this was a center so she had the ability to move the kid to another room and get her away from him. i know you don't have that option, but parents won't tolerate their "good kid" being bullied for very long. if you have to lose a child, it should be the one causing the trouble.
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