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  #1  
Old 12-07-2010, 04:18 PM
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Question Your Baby Can Read

Good or Bad?
This was a conversation started in another thread and I didn't want to hijack the tread by continuing the debate there.

I think teaching kids to read is a great tool in communication. We talk about the words, the pictures, they get practice saying new words, they learn new vocabulary, and they have fun doing it.

Kids younger than 5 can learn to read by sight but cannot learn to read by phonetics. The sight reading does not reduce their ability to learn phonetics. If done right children taught to read by sight will naturally develop the decoding skills used in phonetics.

I use flash cards with my kids. I have just the word on one side and a picture and the word of the other side. We speed through both sides. They are given time to look at them and handle them. I have them all laminated so they will hold up. They love doing them and have learned to read many of the words. I look at it as a step above labeling everything which I also do. I also view it as a step up from books that label pictures with a one to one correspondence. Both of these latter techniques have been used to teach reading for years.

I don't use any of the electronic based supplements but have begun to make books to correspond with the words and give them more exposure to the words as well as exposure to seeing them in sentences.

I'm just wondering others' takes on this type of program.
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Old 12-07-2010, 04:47 PM
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Your baby can read, but should she? No, IMO. Your baby should coo and drool and learn how to sit up, crawl, learn how to walk, play patty-cake, learn that he/she is loved, learn how to love, feel secure. Read? No, your baby has 13 long years in school to learn that. A reading baby is not developmentally appropriate imo.

Can a 3 or 4 year old learn to read? Maybe, but really why should they? unless they really want to and are developmentally ready to. They have a long, long time to learn how to read, let them play with toys, learn how to socialize, learn their colors and shapes, let them paint and glue and cut and color. I find the earlier and earlier approach to formal education ridiculous!
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Old 12-07-2010, 05:00 PM
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Here is a really good article on the subject from Psychology Today.

http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/...can-read-overb
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Old 12-07-2010, 05:08 PM
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Originally Posted by daysofelijah View Post
Your baby can read, but should she? No, IMO. Your baby should coo and drool and learn how to sit up, crawl, learn how to walk, play patty-cake, learn that he/she is loved, learn how to love, feel secure. Read? No, your baby has 13 long years in school to learn that. A reading baby is not developmentally appropriate imo.

Can a 3 or 4 year old learn to read? Maybe, but really why should they? unless they really want to and are developmentally ready to. They have a long, long time to learn how to read, let them play with toys, learn how to socialize, learn their colors and shapes, let them paint and glue and cut and color. I find the earlier and earlier approach to formal education ridiculous!
I completely agree.
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Old 12-07-2010, 05:36 PM
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Originally Posted by daysofelijah View Post
Your baby can read, but should she? No, IMO. Your baby should coo and drool and learn how to sit up, crawl, learn how to walk, play patty-cake, learn that he/she is loved, learn how to love, feel secure. Read? No, your baby has 13 long years in school to learn that. A reading baby is not developmentally appropriate imo.

Can a 3 or 4 year old learn to read? Maybe, but really why should they? unless they really want to and are developmentally ready to. They have a long, long time to learn how to read, let them play with toys, learn how to socialize, learn their colors and shapes, let them paint and glue and cut and color. I find the earlier and earlier approach to formal education ridiculous!


i agree. i taught kindergarteners and first graders to read (including my own) with no problems and they never spent their time using flash cards and remembering words beforehand. they should learn comprehension, decoding, vocab, etc as they learn to read and that program offers none of that.

my professors all spoke badly of these "reading programs" and as teachers with years of experience who all held doctorates and taught hundreds of kids to read, i trust them over some guy trying to sell flash cards or an overly anxious parent. i don't see why a one or two year old would need to read - kids are expected to BEGIN learning to read in kindergarten - even the "smart ones."
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Old 12-07-2010, 05:41 PM
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Babies should be engaged with their entire body and all their senses. "Lessons" on reading are completely inappropriate at this age for many of the reasons listed above and in the other thread.

Why would we want a baby to read? So the parents can brag?? I just don't get it. It does not make a baby smarter. And there seems to be evidence that it may even cause difficulties when the child starts to actually read (not recognition, sounding out words and such...).

JMHO
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Old 12-07-2010, 06:30 PM
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here we learn holistically (sp?) we have an all encompassing learning environment where we learn as we go. We do not do flash cards (sight words) until they are long gone from my house. I focus on crawling, walking, shoes, coats, etc,... not reading. Here they learn how things feel taste smell and sound. They learn that mushy things sometimes taste good and sometimes not. They learn how crawling on tile and carpet are the same but different. They learn so many things,... I think that reading is just rushing,.. and refuse to do it. Our "circle time " which I hate that term, lol. we dont sit in a circle, only learn about circles, so I dont call ours circle time. We call it sharing time. We share our time together learning about things. We share songs, observations, ideas and concepts. I think that while the early years are the perfect window for learning language,.. it should be verbal. I feel the same about babies reading as I do infants potty learning,. but there are people who do it. But Its not for me.
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Old 12-07-2010, 08:45 PM
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i don't think people realize what sight words really are. that's not meant as an insult...i didn't know until the time came in my training to start teaching children to read. before that, i would assume, like most people that sight words were any words a child could recognize by just looking at them -and they are....BUT there are only a select "few" words that are supposed/meant to be "sight words."

it's called the dolch list - there's a diff. list according to grade, but it's basically the most common words that appear in text "I, do, not, to, a" etc. you can get a copy of it online. if you WANT to teach kids sight words with cards or through games...use that list and those words. it's mostly words that have no "rules."

kids need to learn to read - LEARN...not memorize words, and they aren't capable of learning/comprehending the "rules of reading" until kindergarten/first grade. then, they still don't need any special cards or anything else. they need age appropriate books and someone that knows the basic rules. once again, i didn't know the rules until i was learning how to teach reading.

one example (which only a 5/6 year old could understand) is:

"i do not like to ride a bike." "i, do, not, to, a" are all TRUE sight words. hopefully they know these already or will know them very quickly when learning to read.

the other words "like, ride, bike" can be taught with one simple rule (assuming they already know letter sounds which they should). that would be "when there's an e on the end...the e "pinches that i and makes it say it's name..iiiii!"

so, if they know the e on the end makes the vowel long (or say it's name) they not only can read like, ride, and bike.....but they can read mice, rice, dice, nice, etc. even if you're not there.....

same rule applies with the other vowels. "made" the e "pinches the a and makes it say it's name...aaaa" made, fade, wade, cave, etc.

there are always exceptions to every rule, but for the most part - the rules apply and kids in k/1st are able to understand them. therefore, they'll be able to decode words for the rest of their lives (i'm still coming across words i've never seen, and i didn't have a flashcard for them, but i can read them). there are many rules - that's just one example.

sorry for the long lesson, but i've done it/seen it/know it works - and in a LOT less time than it would take to try to get a child to MEMORIZE words by sight that were never intended to be remembered.

Last edited by QualiTcare; 12-07-2010 at 08:52 PM.
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Old 12-07-2010, 09:15 PM
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In my opinion parents push these types of programs so that they can brag about their kids.
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Old 12-07-2010, 09:36 PM
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I also don't like these programs. I think children have enough formal school years ahead of them why rush this? My parenting style is kids need to be kids. My second grader reads at a fourth grade reading level we didn't do any of these your baby can read stuff and she is exceeding at school so why rush things. I agree with laundry mom babies need to drool and coo and snuggle on my lap. My youngest is in kindergarten and is doing the sight words I love seeing her face light up when she sees those words in the books we read just like my dcbs face lit up when he learned he can make really cool vibrating noise with his mouth on the side of my cheek. He is 9 months. Point being he wouldnt have the same reaction with looking at a card saying a word at least in my opinion.
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Old 12-07-2010, 09:38 PM
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I also don't like these programs. I think children have enough formal school years ahead of them why rush this? My parenting style is kids need to be kids. My second grader reads at a fourth grade reading level we didn't do any of these your baby can read stuff and she is exceeding at school so why rush things. I agree with laundry mom babies need to drool and coo and snuggle on my lap. My youngest is in kindergarten and is doing the sight words I love seeing her face light up when she sees those words in the books we read just like my dcbs face lit up when he learned he can make really cool vibrating noise with his mouth on the side of my cheek. He is 9 months. Point being he wouldnt have the same reaction with looking at a card saying a word at least in my opinion.
i think on top of parents having bragging rights....they think their kids will be far ahead in school and teachers will be impressed. they will NOT! there is NO expectation for kids to be able to read when they come to school.

i'd love to see "newtodaycare's" opinion on this.
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Old 12-08-2010, 07:00 AM
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I have little vocab cards and flash cards...basically the kids just tell me what the picture is of and thats it. They love doing it and learn new words for pictures.

All I meant by my comment is why spend that darn much money for something so silly. You can easily get the same effect from other things. That was all I meant. To each his own..but IMO its a gimmick.
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Old 12-08-2010, 07:02 AM
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Originally Posted by daysofelijah View Post
Your baby can read, but should she? No, IMO. Your baby should coo and drool and learn how to sit up, crawl, learn how to walk, play patty-cake, learn that he/she is loved, learn how to love, feel secure. Read? No, your baby has 13 long years in school to learn that. A reading baby is not developmentally appropriate imo.

Can a 3 or 4 year old learn to read? Maybe, but really why should they? unless they really want to and are developmentally ready to. They have a long, long time to learn how to read, let them play with toys, learn how to socialize, learn their colors and shapes, let them paint and glue and cut and color. I find the earlier and earlier approach to formal education ridiculous!
ditto!

no baby should be reading IMO....just crazy those who spead the money on something like this.

let children BE children!
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Old 12-08-2010, 08:47 AM
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"My" babies don't read but we do try to teach them a few words in sign language. We do "hungry", "thirsty", "tired", "mom", "dad", "thank you", "please", and "hello". Helps with the "communication frustration" I don't force any of them to learn, I just do it casually and soon enough they pick it up and use the signs. ALL my kids from age 2-5 use the please and thank you signs without even thinking about it. They just do it 'cuz they are used to it.
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Old 12-08-2010, 12:19 PM
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We use sign language too. Some day I hope to be a Japanese immersion day care and I'll still do ASL.

I am helping them explore their world completely. Reading is automatic for us and we do it so often throughout the day I think it's a good thing to help children make more and more sense of their world and expand their knowledge.

I do it to enrich their vocabulary. I give them 10 different cards a week which adds up to 500 new words a year. I could care less if they can actually read them. The point is to let them learn if they want to. I'm offering them a way to explore their world more fully without reliance on adults. I love it when they look at books that I never read to them and read some of the words trying to decipher the story.

I also wanted to make it clear that this takes 20 seconds to do so I am in no way preventing them for developing in other areas. I spend about 5 minutes with each child individually daily doing words, quantity recognition, and a book. We talk, laugh, and enjoy ourselves.

"Your baby should coo and drool and learn how to sit up, crawl, learn how to walk, play patty-cake, learn that he/she is loved, learn how to love, feel secure."

Babies are capable of way more than this. They love new things and learning 500 new words a year is a great place to start.
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Old 12-08-2010, 12:37 PM
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I wish I HAD done something like this with my sons when they were toddlers! My oldest has had the most difficult time learning his sight words, and I really think I missed a valuable teaching window when he was 2 and 3 years old. He's 10 now, and is still way behind on reading, and of course that affects every other subject too. My 8 year old was behind when he started kindergarten, although he picked it up quicker than my oldest. I've been doing daycare since my youngest was 11 months, and she's 3 now. She knows so much more than her brothers did at that age because of the things we do at circle time. Reading, writing, counting, adding, subtracting -- all in very short sessions, all with lots of fun, practical examples, but all completely necessary skills for kindergarten. I don't believe a "baby" can read with comprehension, but I do think any pre-reading skills you can teach that baby can't be a bad thing!
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Old 12-08-2010, 05:30 PM
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Default As a teacher..

I taught pre-k, kindergarten, first and second grade before doing daycare. I'm almost done with my Masters in Reading Education, so I can offer you some statistics...

Do kids under 5 need to be drilled with sight words? Definitely not. Should they be taught letters and sounds? Absolutely, when they are interested and able. Studies have shown that kids' abilities at age 3-5 is highly predictive of their reading ability through 6th grade. Is this stat. always true and things can never change? Of course not, but I think it has powerful implications.

Preschoolers need to do the cutting, coloring, socializing, learning colors and numbers...and letters and numbers. It should not be PUSHED on them by any means but by approaching it in a fun way (such as leap frog games and movies), you are putting the kids at a great advantage for later in life.

I work with 3-5 year olds only, mainly for this reason. Under 3 years old, children should not be pushed with formal education. They should be talked to and have things pointed out to them, in order for them to develop rich vocabulary and meaningful experiences. However, sight words? There is really no reason, at all.

Just my opinion.
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Old 12-08-2010, 05:53 PM
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newtodaycare, I'm curious. With your educational background (particularly that almost-reading degree!) what's your take on the Montessori approach to reading, of teaching the sounds before the names of the letters? Although I am not a Montessori expert, I admit to being highly intrigued by this approach and Montessori schools seem to have a lot of success with this. What's your professional opinion?
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Old 12-08-2010, 07:21 PM
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I've never had direct experience with Montessori students (only what I've read in research)...but I personally think it would be more confusing than teaching letters and then sounds. Obviously, it works for some kids (since kids in these schools come out just fine).

Letters and then sounds is what I've learned in every psych. and educ. class I've taken. It seems like a logical progression to me, and clearly I've seen it work as well.

Kids process concrete thoughts (and have a hard time with the abstract), so being able to see "A" before learning the 'a' sound gives them something visual to relate it to.
Again, I don't think it'd be impossible the other day, but I've very pleased with the results I've seen from the other (more typical) instruction.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SilverSabre25 View Post
newtodaycare, I'm curious. With your educational background (particularly that almost-reading degree!) what's your take on the Montessori approach to reading, of teaching the sounds before the names of the letters? Although I am not a Montessori expert, I admit to being highly intrigued by this approach and Montessori schools seem to have a lot of success with this. What's your professional opinion?
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Old 12-08-2010, 08:57 PM
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well, i think the kids still SEE the letters and feel them- but instead of learning the name of the letter - they learn the sound.

like if you held up the letter A - they would say the sound instead of saying "A"...but still have the visual.

i think it's an interesting concept. it's hard to change and try something like that in public schools because of standards, deadlines, etc. - you do what you KNOW works.

kids look at words with the letter C all the time and want to make the "s" sound because C's name sounds like seee and they learn the letter name first. i'd be willing to bet kids who learn the sounds first don't do that.
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Old 12-09-2010, 02:45 AM
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Studies have shown that kids' abilities at age 3-5 is highly predictive of their reading ability through 6th grade.
Can you tell me what studies you are referring to and what "abilities"? Do the studies include children from all economic backgrounds?
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Old 12-09-2010, 08:46 AM
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Originally Posted by MommyMuffin View Post
I have little vocab cards and flash cards...basically the kids just tell me what the picture is of and thats it. They love doing it and learn new words for pictures.

All I meant by my comment is why spend that darn much money for something so silly. You can easily get the same effect from other things. That was all I meant. To each his own..but IMO its a gimmick.
Im new to this forum and already find topics that I have a issue with too! Its nice to see both sides though .

With saying this I had a parent with whom wanted me to have their 22 month old sit with his bottle and watch "Your baby can read" a few times a day. They told me they give him his evening bottle and sit him on the couch to watch it. Mind you the child was 22months, still on infant formula and was given a bottle (my options of cups, trainers, weaning proved nothing) during the day and night. Due to this insistence I had to add a area in my contract on TV education. It states that children would not watch TV (educational or not)more than half hour each daycare day if at all as I feel children learn better with hands on education. This is IMO and what they do with their children on their time is not of my concern.

These parents used this as a "babysitter" and then expected their child to come out above average. They couldnt figure out why their son wasn't learning the words when "he watches the show at least twice a day". If you use this as a teaching tool ALONG with hands on learning and coaching then they may have seen progress. I have not personally used the cds they gave me so I'm just using my opinion. Placing the almost 2 yr old on the couch with a bottle in front of the TV isn't going to teach anything. In fact I had many setbacks with this child and when they finally left my care do to re-locating to the mothers home country I was enthralled.

To each parent and educator their own and if I decide to try it I might have a different idea to back it. All the kids in my care seem to being doing pretty good at their own pace.
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Old 12-09-2010, 07:55 PM
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Yikes!
erin's daycare...
My brain stopped working when I read "22 month old with bottle"......
Oh brother!.....what do they it will be easier to transition a 2 year old from a bottle to a cup?!!!! Good luck with that!
Where do these parents come from?
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Old 12-10-2010, 06:21 AM
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The mother was Austrailian and the father was American. My son was weaned off the bottle at a year almost on the dot and I always told them I was trying with cups during the day with their son but they never seemed concerned with that as they were with him working on his "reading". Before they left the mom said "I was thinking of trying to potty train him before we re-located but then he might regress when we get there". How about first trying to get him off the bottle AND then work on the other things like potty training or reading or even doing simple tasks like engaging me? That wouldve been better but they were....off....

Because of them I had to add things with my contract about educational videos and other more pressing issues. Like fleas.

Needless to say, the kid STILL couldnt read after a year on his parents "program". I dont blame that specific educational system though...
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Old 12-10-2010, 03:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nannyde View Post
Can you tell me what studies you are referring to and what "abilities"? Do the studies include children from all economic backgrounds?
I wish I could share a video clip with you..but I can only view it through my online grad class. It's a Child psychologist speaking who references this type of research and it says that the general idea, of preschool experiences predicting later performance, prove true in "American schools".

Obviously, there are expections and people work hard to succeed in difficult life situations-but these numbers are averages.
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Old 03-21-2011, 06:34 AM
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I definitely think that learning words by sight instead of by phonetics is NOT really reading. It will not help them learn to spell or to read new words they've never seen before.

However, my family of 3 dck's (ages 3, 4, 4) purchased Your Baby Can Read system about a month ago. The parents have worked with them about once or twice a week for this time period. In this time, I have noticed the 3 yo is starting to dissect the words she says. For ex: she would say "V-V-Violin!" emphasizing the V sound. Then she would say, "Violin starts with V". She was not doing this before. And now one of the 4 yo boys has started to write letters on his paper trying to spell words. We purchased hermit crabs two weeks ago; and he wrote on a piece of paper "T-A-T-R" and said "We should name him Tater! Look! I spelled it!" He has never tried to spell words before. In fact, every time we try to sit down and do any sort of learning activity; he is the most difficult one to engage. I'm not saying this progress is b/c of the system, but it seems to be.

I mentioned their progress to dcm. She then tells me that she is finding she doesn't have enough time to really work with them like she wants to. She asked if she could bring the whole system and leave it at my house for me to do with them. I told her I could not guarantee that I would do it everyday b/c I have my own things planned to do with them during the day; but I would give it a try. Plus, I have my own DS who is 3 that I would like to try it with.

She brought everything in this morning. I'll give it a shot. I am a skeptic, but I think it won't hurt to give it a valiant effort.
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Old 03-21-2011, 08:13 AM
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Originally Posted by QualiTcare View Post
the other words "like, ride, bike" can be taught with one simple rule (assuming they already know letter sounds which they should). that would be "when there's an e on the end...the e "pinches that i and makes it say it's name..iiiii!"

It is hilarious that this topic has come up since we just did all this with my daughter yesterday. It's funny to me because I haven't heard anyone explain this since I was in elementary (and sometimes on tv) and we did it yesterday and now it's come back up again.


We showed my daughter examples like this and then taught her the difference in the sound:

rat rate

mat mate

hat hate

mad made

you get my drift.
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Old 03-21-2011, 08:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DBug View Post
I wish I HAD done something like this with my sons when they were toddlers! My oldest has had the most difficult time learning his sight words, and I really think I missed a valuable teaching window when he was 2 and 3 years old. He's 10 now, and is still way behind on reading, and of course that affects every other subject too. My 8 year old was behind when he started kindergarten, although he picked it up quicker than my oldest. I've been doing daycare since my youngest was 11 months, and she's 3 now. She knows so much more than her brothers did at that age because of the things we do at circle time. Reading, writing, counting, adding, subtracting -- all in very short sessions, all with lots of fun, practical examples, but all completely necessary skills for kindergarten. I don't believe a "baby" can read with comprehension, but I do think any pre-reading skills you can teach that baby can't be a bad thing!
girls develop faster than boys. And every child is different. Everyone in any grade does not read at the same level, even if they've all received the exact same learning tools throughout.
Some kids get it and some kids don't. It's the same as math, some kids are math whiz's and some are not.

I think it's important to engage kids when they want to, but never force them. Forcing a kid turns them off of learning. And can also make them feel like failures.

What if you had a 3 yo, 4 yo, and 5yo in your care. You did the same thing at the same time with all 3 of them. What if the 2 younger ones were girls and the older one a boy. And what if the 3 and 4 yos started reading first? The little 5 yo boy isn't going to feel too great.


I noticed with every kid that i've been around, just before entering kindy, they start taking books, and since they don't know the words, they look at the pictures and make up their own stories. I think this is where children learn to read. By looking at the pictures, figuring out what is going on, and then putting words to it. So what if it's not the words in the book. Eventually they will get it. Doesn't mean don't work with them, but just let them explore the books as they would anything else.

And what worries me the most, is the kids that are being forced to "read' before they are ready to, what critical development are they missing out on? How long will it be before it is figured out what went wrong with this system.
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Old 03-21-2011, 08:31 AM
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youretooloud youretooloud is offline
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It does work. I've seen actual babies who can read.

But, it takes work, every day... every day, the baby needs to watch the videos and work with the flash cards.

I, personally don't see the point. I'd rather just let a baby be a baby and explore the whole world, and I think an hour or more a day out of their little lives is too much.

I probably wouldn't do it with my own child, but I don't think it's absolutely wrong. We parent how we choose, and I don't see a benefit, or a drawback to it really.
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Old 03-21-2011, 08:38 AM
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My son was reading before he was two years old.... something he did all on his own. Along with being autistic he has Hyperlexia... this was a huge blessing to him and us as he didn't develop any sort of functional verbal language until he was nearly 5 years old... so we were able to do a lot of communicating with him through the written word.
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