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Daycare Center and Family Home Forum>I Said No! Whoa Backbone!
EchoMom 09:44 PM 07-11-2012
So my pick ups are all at about 5-5:30pm but one family is 6pm at the latest on their contract. Today DCD was about to leave then got out of the car to come back and say, "Oh, I forgot, I have a quarterly meeting tomorrow, is it okay if I pick Baby up at 6:15 or 6:30?"

I said No before I even thought about it! Ack! I'm usually VERY accommodating of schedule changes, but not this one, not staying open later than the latest already! I said, "Oh no that's pretty late. Sorry, is there someone else who can pick her up? Most of my families pick up by 5:30 and after 6 is just too late. A couple minutes would be alright but anything more is just too late." He walked away slightly miffed saying, "Oh, I just thought this one time..."

I shouldn't have even said a couple minutes is okay, but man, I can't believe I said no! Plus, what the heck?! He forgot to ask me until the day before??? His wife always gives me weeks ahead notice whenever she wants to change the schedule by a bit, but that's always during the day not late after.

I got an email from DCM asking me to clarify my policies because when they signed up 6 months ago I said I offered extended hours at $10/hour if agreed upon. She wasn't nasty and we emailed nicely and ironed it out. I just simply explained that I just don't offer that anymore. No one has ever needed it and I already work 55 hours a week and I'd rather have the time with my family than the extra $10. Whoa, I said that?! Oh my! Backbone!

Now the hard part, I've never ever charged a late fee, I've been too chicken to do it. But I specifically told DCD that anything more than a couple minutes after six would be too late. So now, if he does it anyway, I'm going to HAVE to charge him because I specifically said no... I'm curious to see who picks up DCbaby and when. Ah!

I HATE the business side of this!!! Ugh!!! Makes me nervous!!!!
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melskids 04:01 AM 07-12-2012
To a parent 6:15 or 6:30 IS only a couple minutes late...lol so you didn't REALLY say no.

I would def. charge him, and next time he asks, just say "no" with no explaination. The more you say, the more they can twist and pull the meaning of your words, kwim?
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Mom&Provider 04:27 AM 07-12-2012
Good for you!

I had to laugh at the pp'er too...of course parents only think its a few minutes late to come that late!! LOL! I mean, you don't really have a life outside of caring for thier child do you?! LOL! Good for you in sticking to your rules!
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EchoMom 04:48 AM 07-12-2012
You're right, I shouldn't have said a couple minutes, it's just hard to say no and I got nervous! We'll see what happens today...
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saved4always 04:54 AM 07-12-2012
Don't let mom throw that part of your contract at you...you said it says "if agreed upon". Well, you don't agree on your side so tomorrow is a "no". I would just be ready for mom or dad to try to fuss about that clause. And I would put out a notice to all as an addendum to your policies that you no longer offer the "extended hours". Just to keep this from happening again. I have never been open to working later. Good job on saying "no" right off! That is so difficults sometimes....I know I wan to please people so I really have to work on that "no".
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melskids 04:56 AM 07-12-2012
I totally understand! But you know how it goes....

Provider says "a few minutes"

Parent hears "a half hour"

Provider says "no illnesses"

Parent hears "except what tylenol will help"

Provider says "no sippy cups from home"

Parent hears "juice jug from the gas station on the way is OK"

Provider says "no toys from home"

Parent hears "paper clips, hairbrushes, coins from my purse are not toys"

Provider says "your child needs diapers"

Parent hears " my child needs diapers next week after I go shopping on the weekend"



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SilverSabre25 05:09 AM 07-12-2012
Go you!! Feels so good, doesn't it?

I do offer extended care to families who need it, but that's partly because of the clientele I serve right now--families with nontraditional needs (not 9-5 M-F for both parents every week). So I'm often willing to accommodate odd hours, but when I don't want to, I phrase it like there's something that particular day that's a problem-- "Oh, no, I'm sorry, not Thursday; we have something going on that night."

That way I don't have to make the parent feel rejected. Not that it's always a bad thing, but you know how dcps are...sometimes it's all personal to them.
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Hunni Bee 05:12 AM 07-12-2012
Originally Posted by melskids:
I totally understand! But you know how it goes....

Provider says "a few minutes"

Parent hears "a half hour"

Provider says "no illnesses"

Parent hears "except what tylenol will help"

Provider says "no sippy cups from home"

Parent hears "juice jug from the gas station on the way is OK"

Provider says "no toys from home"

Parent hears "paper clips, hairbrushes, coins from my purse are not toys"

Provider says "your child needs diapers"

Parent hears " my child needs diapers next week after I go shopping on the weekend"


I couldn't have said it better myself. I love it!!
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Truly Scrumptious 06:36 AM 07-12-2012
Parents are selfish and think the whole world revolves around them and their "precious".
They always think that their lives are far more important than ours.
I know it's hard to confront parents because we don't want to create an awkward situation. But, providers can't allow themselves to be a doormat.

Most of us don't do child care for the fun of it. It's a living. We rely on the income for our families. So, anytime we have to enforce a rule, we take the chance of losing a family and with that, losing income.

Well my family might have to eat peanut butter and jelly sandwiches until I fill a slot, but my parents are going to follow the rules are they are out!
Its been a process getting comfortable doing this, but now that I have....it's actually easier than I thought.

We all know we can pretty much deal with anything the kids dish out....it's the parents that make our job hard. Jeff Johnson (a provider and author) told us once in a workshop he was teaching....that he thought the greatest invention would be to make a giant tube (like the ones the banks use for deposits) and the parents just put the kid in and "shoot" them into the day care at drop off and we "shoot" them out at pick up. (Same for payments).....I agree.
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Blackcat31 06:46 AM 07-12-2012
Originally Posted by Truly Scrumptious:
Parents are selfish and think the whole world revolves around them and their "precious".
They always think that their lives are far more important than ours.
I don't necessarily think parents are selfish, I just think that unless you have a job (like daycare etc.) it is just really difficult to see past your own needs and the world in which you live.

I think that being a child care provider takes a special kind of person and one of the traits of that "special kind of person" has is being able to really think perspectively from not only our own views but from other people's viewpoints as well.

I think that parents SHOULD be concerned about their families first and foremost but I also think it would be awesome if they were able to put themselves in my shoes or other people's shoes once in a while too but since that doesn't come naturally to everyone, we kind of have to teach them how to do that....and if we can't teach them how to do that, then we need to be continually "on them" about our rules and policies so that we aren't going crazy and living in the venting thread.....kwim?

Either way, I think it was awesome that OP stood her ground and put her family first (I think these same kinds of "special people" tend to be natural givers and put other people's needs before their own) so good for you OP.

Once you do use that backbone, it does become easier and easier and soon, you do it and don't even realize you do.
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EchoMom 06:48 AM 07-12-2012
LOL Blackcat, "living in the venting thread.." LOL Too funny!
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melskids 07:30 AM 07-12-2012
Blackcat is right.

It's not just daycare parents, but friends, family, husbands , etc. If we don't communicate our needs openly and honestly, and be upfront with people (respectfully and professionally, of course) then how are they going to know?
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clep 07:57 AM 07-12-2012
Originally Posted by melskids:
Blackcat is right.

It's not just daycare parents, but friends, family, husbands , etc. If we don't communicate our needs openly and honestly, and be upfront with people (respectfully and professionally, of course) then how are they going to know?
This is true in most cases. A few it has not been.

I have a large, very clear contract. I go through it very clearly upon the meet and greet. I find that even when they agree to it and it is very clear, parents can at times try to negotiate or even demand different terms based upon their "feelings".

True story: I had two children in my care for about a year. Parents are nice, children are nice. They paid on time. A few glitches with lack of boundaries with the parents letting their children run the show, but nothing major. I have a trial contract and if all goes well after that, parents sign a permanent contract. At that time they pay the first and last month's fees. These parents decided to provide me only two weeks notice that they were leaving so she could be a SAHM. I was so happy for them, but that does not change the fact that it is very hard to fill two spots in two weeks. I let them know they can provide the proper 30 days notice and apply their last months prepaid fees as in our contract or provide the two weeks notice and forego their last months fees. They expressed how much they needed the money as they are losing her income but understood. They gave me notice in writing and it was very nice, sharing what a wonderful provider I have been etc, etc.

After they were gone I received an email stating a large amount of false claims with child neglect and abuse being among those claims. They would however not go any farther with the claims if I agreed to give them 1400 bucks back!!!! Actual blackmail and in writing. Ahaha. I reminded them of the wonderful notice they gave me, that they left their children in my care for the last two weeks before they left and that I do not cave to blackmail.

Never heard from them again. Goes to show though that even with a contract people still demand what they want. That was my worst case so far, but several it has happened through the years that people want what they want so they will manipulate and do whatever they can. One of the main reasons actually I am closing down my day home.
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Truly Scrumptious 08:01 AM 07-12-2012
Originally Posted by melskids:
Blackcat is right.

It's not just daycare parents, but friends, family, husbands , etc. If we don't communicate our needs openly and honestly, and be upfront with people (respectfully and professionally, of course) then how are they going to know?
Oh....you are exactly right. The problem with day care parents is that even after providers have "let them know" they will still push the limits if allowed.
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Springdaze 08:13 AM 07-12-2012
I just get upset because I get that we are in the business of watching kids, but after hours when I ask someone to watch my kids or help ME, I hear crickets!
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littlemissmuffet 10:03 AM 07-12-2012
Originally Posted by Blackcat31:
I don't necessarily think parents are selfish, I just think that unless you have a job (like daycare etc.) it is just really difficult to see past your own needs and the world in which you live.
That is pretty much the definition of selfish.


Definition of SELFISH

1: concerned excessively or exclusively with oneself : seeking or concentrating on one's own advantage, pleasure, or well-being without regard for others

2: arising from concern with one's own welfare or advantage in disregard of others <a selfish act>

3: being an actively replicating repetitive sequence of nucleic acid that serves no known function <selfish DNA>; also: being genetic material solely concerned with its own replication <selfish genes>

— self·ish·lyadverb
— self·ish·nessnoun
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littlemissmuffet 10:14 AM 07-12-2012
I agree that this parent is selfish.

By him coming in and "asking" (when we all know damn well that he truly believed the OP would never say NO to him) for a 30 minute late pick-up with barely any kind of notice when most companies don't organize a quarterly overtime meeting without considerable advance notice shows he has zero respect for the provider. He EXPECTED her to say "Yeah, sure, no problem" and do it. If he didn't EXPECT her to say yes, why did he walk away from her a mumble under his breath "Oh, I just thought this one time..."
She said no. He should have said "Hey no problem, we'll figure it out", not try and guilt her. That IS selfish.
I have seen way too many parents not even bother exhausting all other options before coming to me and asking a child to stay later, simply because it's more convenient and I'm already watching them, what's a few more minutes. That IS selfish.
For the mom to then email you and question you on your policy of extended hours at $10/hour IF agreed upon was also selfish. All she read was extended hour of care for next to nothing! She completely disregarded the "IF AGREED UPON" portion. What exactly needed to be clarified about this policy???? SELFISH, indeed.
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Blackcat31 10:29 AM 07-12-2012
Originally Posted by littlemissmuffet:
That is pretty much the definition of selfish.


Definition of SELFISH

1: concerned excessively or exclusively with oneself : seeking or concentrating on one's own advantage, pleasure, or well-being without regard for others

2: arising from concern with one's own welfare or advantage in disregard of others <a selfish act>

3: being an actively replicating repetitive sequence of nucleic acid that serves no known function <selfish DNA>; also: being genetic material solely concerned with its own replication <selfish genes>

— self·ish·lyadverb
— self·ish·nessnoun
Yeah, you are totally right....that does fit the definition of selfish.

I guess I was looking at the motivator more than the actual act...kwim? I don't think parents are INTENTIONALLY being selfish.
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Truly Scrumptious 10:29 AM 07-12-2012
Originally Posted by littlemissmuffet:
I agree that this parent is selfish.


I have seen way too many parents not even bother exhausting all other options before coming to me and asking a child to stay later, simply because it's more convenient and I'm already watching them, what's a few more minutes. That IS selfish.
You are so right...happens to me too!
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Bella99 10:56 AM 07-12-2012
I probably would have just agreed to. 15-30 minutes is hardly much, it's a cartoon with a coloring book while you clean up from the day. 10$ is 2 starbucks coffees
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littlemissmuffet 11:00 AM 07-12-2012
Originally Posted by Bella99:
I probably would have just agreed to. 15-30 minutes is hardly much, it's a cartoon with a coloring book while you clean up from the day. 10$ is 2 starbucks coffees
The OP is already WORKING a 55 hour week (I'm betting this is strictly hands on daycare time with children present and doesn't include the countless hours of cleaning, paperwork, shopping, etc.) - 15 to 30 minutes might mean the world to her and her family.

It's not necessarily the fact that the parent asked - it's that both mom and dad wouldn't take NO for an answer. You simply cannot expect that when you ask for something (even if money is attatched) that you will get your way.
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DaisyMamma 11:06 AM 07-12-2012
HA! to me a couple of minutes is 5 MAX. lol! Silly parents
It's hard to not keep talking and adding on an explanation, once you say no a couple of times you get used to it.


Originally Posted by melskids:
To a parent 6:15 or 6:30 IS only a couple minutes late...lol so you didn't REALLY say no.

I would def. charge him, and next time he asks, just say "no" with no explaination. The more you say, the more they can twist and pull the meaning of your words, kwim?

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MyAngels 11:08 AM 07-12-2012
Originally Posted by Bella99:
I probably would have just agreed to. 15-30 minutes is hardly much, it's a cartoon with a coloring book while you clean up from the day. 10$ is 2 starbucks coffees
Oh heck no, 15-30 minutes of my time is worth a lot more than that .

Not to mention that "just this one time" could easily become "just this one time this week." That's a slippery slope I'm not willing to traverse.

Good for you, OP, for using your backbone!
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my3ps 11:34 AM 07-12-2012
It's crazy what 30 minutes can mean. I changed my closing time at the beginning of the year and now close at 5:30pm instead of 6pm....oh WOW I regained my sanity! 30 minutes to me and my family is huge! Good for you OP!
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nanglgrl 03:09 PM 07-12-2012
Originally Posted by melskids:
I totally understand! But you know how it goes....

Provider says "a few minutes"

Parent hears "a half hour"

Provider says "no illnesses"

Parent hears "except what tylenol will help"

Provider says "no sippy cups from home"

Parent hears "juice jug from the gas station on the way is OK"

Provider says "no toys from home"

Parent hears "paper clips, hairbrushes, coins from my purse are not toys"

Provider says "your child needs diapers"

Parent hears " my child needs diapers next week after I go shopping on the weekend"


You just made me laugh so hard. I want to make this into a poster and hang it in my daycare.
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Preschool/daycare teacher 04:01 PM 07-12-2012
A provider also never knows when "15-30 min late" will actually turn into 30-45 min late by the time a parent shows up. So I'm a firm believer in "no" to late. It has happend too many times when I'm closing, and to me even 5 min late seems like forever. There's always traffic or some other unforseen obstacle that seems to come up. I can just imagine dcd walking in at 6:45 and saying, "The meeting ran late and I couldn't call since I was in the middle of it, and then traffic was awful on the way here!" Which could be true and could easily happen, but that provider has still had to put in a longer day than she'd wanted to and her whole family has now been greatly inconvenienced.
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EchoMom 06:11 PM 07-12-2012
UPDATE!!!! So today DCD was NOT late, but he did confront me about the situation! He wasn't nasty or yell or anything terrible like that, but he was manipulative and sublty bullying me. He asked me again about the extended hours policy (which by the way he never asked if he could pay me for the extended hours option, he just asked if it was okay if he was thirty min. late!).

DCD kept pushing me talking about my contract says he can have extended hours and I explained that it says "if agreed upon" that it's if I agree, if I'm available and am up for doing it. He kept pushing the issue and I said, "DCD, I am not OBLIGATED to work after hours for you." (Whoa! I said that?!) I was very professional, not nasty or anything, but FIRM.

Then he went on to say that if my policies change I need to tell them so they know. I said, "Yes, as I told your wife in email, I do not have any policy changes at this time but there will be changes in effect Jan.1 to the policies, rates, and contract." Then he said, "Yeah, so what are the new rates going to be????"

I was scared to death to say it because I didn't want to talk about this so soon since it's not until January. Currently infants are $150/week. So I had to gather up all my courage not to waffle about it and just say flat out, "$200." He said, "Whoa!!! Right up there with everyone else huh???" And I said, "Actually the 2 daycare centers just one block from here charge $263 and $253 per week so it's still a deal. Yes I'm raising them because I have a waiting list and inquiries for infant care constantly. I provide excellent care in a Montessori way."

Well, he was pretty much shocked about the rates and the heat of the conversation was slowly building so that was it and he left. I was shaking after he left I was so nervous to have to be so bold.

So.................... Guess what!!!!!!! He texted me a couple hours later tonight and APOLGIZED for being short with me!!! I can't believe it!!!!

So what do you all think happened?? He said "I thought about our conversation earlier and I want to apolgize for being short with you." This is a family that had a very similar thing happen way back when we signed contracts together. He tried to manipulate and bully me into an arrangement I wasn't comfortable with. I emailed them after and said I didn't think it would be a good fit, cancel agreement. The mom emailed me back basically groveling and compromised so as not to lose me.

So do you think the dad really apologized on his own? Or do you think he told his wife about the talk and she made him apologize?

What an emotional rollercoaster!!!
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EntropyControlSpecialist 06:17 PM 07-12-2012
Originally Posted by glenechogirl:
UPDATE!!!! So today DCD was NOT late, but he did confront me about the situation! He wasn't nasty or yell or anything terrible like that, but he was manipulative and sublty bullying me. He asked me again about the extended hours policy (which by the way he never asked if he could pay me for the extended hours option, he just asked if it was okay if he was thirty min. late!).

DCD kept pushing me talking about my contract says he can have extended hours and I explained that it says "if agreed upon" that it's if I agree, if I'm available and am up for doing it. He kept pushing the issue and I said, "DCD, I am not OBLIGATED to work after hours for you." (Whoa! I said that?!) I was very professional, not nasty or anything, but FIRM.

Then he went on to say that if my policies change I need to tell them so they know. I said, "Yes, as I told your wife in email, I do not have any policy changes at this time but there will be changes in effect Jan.1 to the policies, rates, and contract." Then he said, "Yeah, so what are the new rates going to be????"

I was scared to death to say it because I didn't want to talk about this so soon since it's not until January. Currently infants are $150/week. So I had to gather up all my courage not to waffle about it and just say flat out, "$200." He said, "Whoa!!! Right up there with everyone else huh???" And I said, "Actually the 2 daycare centers just one block from here charge $263 and $253 per week so it's still a deal. Yes I'm raising them because I have a waiting list and inquiries for infant care constantly. I provide excellent care in a Montessori way."

Well, he was pretty much shocked about the rates and the heat of the conversation was slowly building so that was it and he left. I was shaking after he left I was so nervous to have to be so bold.

So.................... Guess what!!!!!!! He texted me a couple hours later tonight and APOLGIZED for being short with me!!! I can't believe it!!!!

So what do you all think happened?? He said "I thought about our conversation earlier and I want to apolgize for being short with you." This is a family that had a very similar thing happen way back when we signed contracts together. He tried to manipulate and bully me into an arrangement I wasn't comfortable with. I emailed them after and said I didn't think it would be a good fit, cancel agreement. The mom emailed me back basically groveling and compromised so as not to lose me.

So do you think the dad really apologized on his own? Or do you think he told his wife about the talk and she made him apologize?

What an emotional rollercoaster!!!
Wow.
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saved4always 06:41 PM 07-12-2012
Originally Posted by melskids:
I totally understand! But you know how it goes....

Provider says "a few minutes"

Parent hears "a half hour"

Provider says "no illnesses"

Parent hears "except what tylenol will help"

Provider says "no sippy cups from home"

Parent hears "juice jug from the gas station on the way is OK"

Provider says "no toys from home"

Parent hears "paper clips, hairbrushes, coins from my purse are not toys"

Provider says "your child needs diapers"

Parent hears " my child needs diapers next week after I go shopping on the weekend"



That was hysterical, cuz it is often too true.....
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saved4always 06:54 PM 07-12-2012
Originally Posted by glenechogirl:
UPDATE!!!! So today DCD was NOT late, but he did confront me about the situation! He wasn't nasty or yell or anything terrible like that, but he was manipulative and sublty bullying me. He asked me again about the extended hours policy (which by the way he never asked if he could pay me for the extended hours option, he just asked if it was okay if he was thirty min. late!).

DCD kept pushing me talking about my contract says he can have extended hours and I explained that it says "if agreed upon" that it's if I agree, if I'm available and am up for doing it. He kept pushing the issue and I said, "DCD, I am not OBLIGATED to work after hours for you." (Whoa! I said that?!) I was very professional, not nasty or anything, but FIRM.

Then he went on to say that if my policies change I need to tell them so they know. I said, "Yes, as I told your wife in email, I do not have any policy changes at this time but there will be changes in effect Jan.1 to the policies, rates, and contract." Then he said, "Yeah, so what are the new rates going to be????"

I was scared to death to say it because I didn't want to talk about this so soon since it's not until January. Currently infants are $150/week. So I had to gather up all my courage not to waffle about it and just say flat out, "$200." He said, "Whoa!!! Right up there with everyone else huh???" And I said, "Actually the 2 daycare centers just one block from here charge $263 and $253 per week so it's still a deal. Yes I'm raising them because I have a waiting list and inquiries for infant care constantly. I provide excellent care in a Montessori way."

Well, he was pretty much shocked about the rates and the heat of the conversation was slowly building so that was it and he left. I was shaking after he left I was so nervous to have to be so bold.

So.................... Guess what!!!!!!! He texted me a couple hours later tonight and APOLGIZED for being short with me!!! I can't believe it!!!!

So what do you all think happened?? He said "I thought about our conversation earlier and I want to apolgize for being short with you." This is a family that had a very similar thing happen way back when we signed contracts together. He tried to manipulate and bully me into an arrangement I wasn't comfortable with. I emailed them after and said I didn't think it would be a good fit, cancel agreement. The mom emailed me back basically groveling and compromised so as not to lose me.

So do you think the dad really apologized on his own? Or do you think he told his wife about the talk and she made him apologize?

What an emotional rollercoaster!!!
Good for you for standing your ground and telling him how it is! My guess is mom made him apolgize. She was probably sweating bullets that he messed up thier awesome daycare deal. Sounds like you can fill thier spont in an instant so don't take any bullying from that DCD! I loved that "obligated" part, by the way.
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EchoMom 06:02 AM 07-13-2012
I still can't believe he apologized! Wasn't expecting that! This morning he dropped off with no word about the issue at all. Good, I did not want to rehash anything again. :P
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