Default Style Register
Daycare.com Forum
Daycare Center and Family Home Forum>Need Help Before I Cave
Josiegirl 10:10 AM 01-21-2014
It's the 2nd day of an 11 month old and she refuses to nap. They admitted she's always been rocked to sleep. Unfortunately she fell asleep in my arms yesterday at 11 and slept 45 minutes. That was it for the day. Today she tried to and I wouldn't let her. I put her down in the pac n play awake and she cried for 30 minutes as I went in and tried to quiet her off and on. I finally got her up and made her last until after lunch(she did surprisingly good!). Then I put her down after noon with the other kids. She has yet to fall asleep. I go in about every 10 minutes or so, try to quiet her but all she does it cry, reach up, and want me to take her out.
Tell me not to cave. She's exhausted, poor thing, but has no clue how to fall asleep.
How long does this take?
Reply
Play Care 10:18 AM 01-21-2014
Originally Posted by Josiegirl:
It's the 2nd day of an 11 month old and she refuses to nap. They admitted she's always been rocked to sleep. Unfortunately she fell asleep in my arms yesterday at 11 and slept 45 minutes. That was it for the day. Today she tried to and I wouldn't let her. I put her down in the pac n play awake and she cried for 30 minutes as I went in and tried to quiet her off and on. I finally got her up and made her last until after lunch(she did surprisingly good!). Then I put her down after noon with the other kids. She has yet to fall asleep. I go in about every 10 minutes or so, try to quiet her but all she does it cry, reach up, and want me to take her out.
Tell me not to cave. She's exhausted, poor thing, but has no clue how to fall asleep.
How long does this take?
At the risk of being flamed, I would NOT go back in. A firm "SHHH, friends are sleeping!" would be my extent with a 2 yo. Then I would monitor the situation from the outside door (more to make sure she didn't escape) and get her when quiet time is over. I would also NOT put up with it for more than a week, tops. Mom and Dad created this, they can find a way to work it out.
Reply
Cat Herder 10:19 AM 01-21-2014
The more you cave, the longer it takes.
Reply
Heidi 10:22 AM 01-21-2014
DONT CAVE!


UNLESS...you want to be playing this little game for the next 2 years, assuming you don't term her by then.


again....



DONT CAVE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I think you need to go in one last time, and say "It is nap time. I will come back when nap is over".

Then, when nap is over (other kids are getting up), go in, bright and sunny, and say "oh, nap is over...time to play". If she sleeps 10 minutes or 3 hours, you do the same thing. Start making some noise before you go in, so she knows you're coming. It has to be different than the quiet before and during nap. I sing "It's time to wake up, it's time to wake up, it's time to wake up now...it's time to wake up" loudly, to the tune of Happy Birthday. That means...naps over. Start singing it down the hall. Do it EVERY TIME. She'll learn to wait for it.
EVENTUALLY...

At 11 months, I'd give her a 45 minute nap in the am, then down with the others. She sleeps, she doesn't sleep, doesn't matter. Nap time is nap time. YOU decide...
Reply
coolconfidentme 10:35 AM 01-21-2014
Originally Posted by Josiegirl:
It's the 2nd day of an 11 month old and she refuses to nap. They admitted she's always been rocked to sleep. Unfortunately she fell asleep in my arms yesterday at 11 and slept 45 minutes. That was it for the day. Today she tried to and I wouldn't let her. I put her down in the pac n play awake and she cried for 30 minutes as I went in and tried to quiet her off and on. I finally got her up and made her last until after lunch(she did surprisingly good!). Then I put her down after noon with the other kids. She has yet to fall asleep. I go in about every 10 minutes or so, try to quiet her but all she does it cry, reach up, and want me to take her out.
Tell me not to cave. She's exhausted, poor thing, but has no clue how to fall asleep.
How long does this take?
I'm really not trying to be mean, but she has trained you to come in when she cries. You need to take the control back. Do NOT go in about every 10 minutes or so. There is a difference between a hurt cry & a pick me up cry. If you don't know which cry it is, make a small noise outside of the room. If she pauses to hear it, she isn't hurt & just wants to be picked up. DON'T DO IT!!
Reply
lovemykidstoo 10:36 AM 01-21-2014
Originally Posted by Play Care:
At the risk of being flamed, I would NOT go back in. A firm "SHHH, friends are sleeping!" would be my extent with a 2 yo. Then I would monitor the situation from the outside door (more to make sure she didn't escape) and get her when quiet time is over. I would also NOT put up with it for more than a week, tops. Mom and Dad created this, they can find a way to work it out.
She's an 11 month old, not 2. I have had it take up to 3 or 4 weeks for that age. She's just adjusting. I think that she's not going to get it for a little bit. She's probably just scared. This is a whole new place and whole new people for her. Make sure her needs are met and have minimal contact with her when she's supposed to be sleeping. When you go in, just give her a pat and leave.
Reply
MyAngels 10:39 AM 01-21-2014
Originally Posted by Heidi:
DONT CAVE!


UNLESS...you want to be playing this little game for the next 2 years, assuming you don't term her by then.


again....



DONT CAVE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I think you need to go in one last time, and say "It is nap time. I will come back when nap is over".

Then, when nap is over (other kids are getting up), go in, bright and sunny, and say "oh, nap is over...time to play". If she sleeps 10 minutes or 3 hours, you do the same thing. Start making some noise before you go in, so she knows you're coming. It has to be different than the quiet before and during nap. I sing "It's time to wake up, it's time to wake up, it's time to wake up now...it's time to wake up" loudly, to the tune of Happy Birthday. That means...naps over. Start singing it down the hall. Do it EVERY TIME. She'll learn to wait for it.
EVENTUALLY...

At 11 months, I'd give her a 45 minute nap in the am, then down with the others. She sleeps, she doesn't sleep, doesn't matter. Nap time is nap time. YOU decide...


I've had it take anywhere from 2 days to 2 weeks. Hang in there.
Reply
cara041083 10:40 AM 01-21-2014
I agree. Don't go back in. It will be rough the first day and then tomorrow will be a lil better and then a lil better. After a few days she will get used to nap time at such and such time and it won't be an issue any longer
Reply
Josiegirl 10:41 AM 01-21-2014
It's now been 1 1/2 hours and she's still crying. Ugh. Problem is she's never been allowed and shown how to fall asleep. I can't expect her to do it all in one nap time. Poor thing. They did her a great dis-service by always rocking her to sleep if they expected her to enter daycare. Now they're expecting me to fix it.
On the report I sent home yesterday I told her I was giving them a 2 week trial period which is standard procedure.

So now...quiet time will be over in another half hour, do I just let her up and keep her up? She'll be hungry and want a bottle and I can 99.99% guarantee she'll fall asleep as she drinks it.

It's been so long since I had a difficult transition with little ones.
Reply
renodeb 10:42 AM 01-21-2014
I agree, I would not go back in. I'm not sure I understand. Is this the child's second day with? Usually when a parent has admitted that the child is rocked at home I rock them for a little, then each day I rock for a little less time then I lay them down and walk out. Usually by the end of the first week the are pretty weaned off of the rocking thing. Maybe give it a week of just laying her down and don't cave!
Deb
Reply
cara041083 10:45 AM 01-21-2014
Originally Posted by Josiegirl:
It's now been 1 1/2 hours and she's still crying. Ugh. Problem is she's never been allowed and shown how to fall asleep. I can't expect her to do it all in one nap time. Poor thing. They did her a great dis-service by always rocking her to sleep if they expected her to enter daycare. Now they're expecting me to fix it.
On the report I sent home yesterday I told her I was giving them a 2 week trial period which is standard procedure.

So now...quiet time will be over in another half hour, do I just let her up and keep her up? She'll be hungry and want a bottle and I can 99.99% guarantee she'll fall asleep as she drinks it.

It's been so long since I had a difficult transition with little ones.
I would keep her in there for the rest of quite time and then if she falls asleep, let her sleep. But then I would let the parents know that she needs to be able to go to sleep on her own in a play pin and that you cannot rock her to sleep. It will take help from the parents if its gona work. But I would repeat this everyday and one day it will all fall into place. .
Reply
Heidi 10:48 AM 01-21-2014
Originally Posted by Josiegirl:
It's now been 1 1/2 hours and she's still crying. Ugh. Problem is she's never been allowed and shown how to fall asleep. I can't expect her to do it all in one nap time. Poor thing. They did her a great dis-service by always rocking her to sleep if they expected her to enter daycare. Now they're expecting me to fix it.
On the report I sent home yesterday I told her I was giving them a 2 week trial period which is standard procedure.

So now...quiet time will be over in another half hour, do I just let her up and keep her up? She'll be hungry and want a bottle and I can 99.99% guarantee she'll fall asleep as she drinks it.

It's been so long since I had a difficult transition with little ones.
She's been crying all that time. At this point, wait until everyone else is up as I suggested above. She needs to learn the connection between the routine.

Does anyone else take a morning nap?

If not, I'd skip it. She's awfully young for one nap, but I couldn't go through all that drama 2x a day, and it's obviously hard on her.

Let her see everyone else getting ready for nap, take her around to wave night night to all the other kids, and then put her in her bed. Lay her down, tuck her in, and say "Night night. I will come get you when nap is over". Then walk out and stay out until you've determined nap is over. Now, get her up FIRST, and let her see you get the other kids up. Like I said, I think a song helps. Or, set a clock radio in the room she's in for wake-up time, and then she'll learn you open the door when the clock-radio comes on, not before.
Reply
Josiegirl 10:49 AM 01-21-2014
Well now wait a minute, I thought(for the ones that say don't go in until naptime is over) we were supposed to go in, talk quietly to them, reassure them, something like every 5-10 minutes, making that time between, a little longer. Am I not remembering that right?

I've got a 9 yo SA today that is like a lil mama and she's begging me to let her go cuddle with her. So that makes me feel even guiltier.
I can do this. I can do this. Just wish the parents had done it before.
Reply
daycarediva 10:50 AM 01-21-2014
Originally Posted by renodeb:
I agree, I would not go back in. I'm not sure I understand. Is this the child's second day with? Usually when a parent has admitted that the child is rocked at home I rock them for a little, then each day I rock for a little less time then I lay them down and walk out. Usually by the end of the first week the are pretty weaned off of the rocking thing. Maybe give it a week of just laying her down and don't cave!
Deb
This is what I would try. Rock for 5 minutes day 1, then 2 minutes day 2 & 3, a minute or less day 4 and nothing day 5+.

I would also shush her "Shhh shhh friends are sleeping. It's nap time." and leave. No checks (if she can see/hear you). No patting. No eye contact if you can manage it.

Yes, her parents did do her a huge disservice. She will probably adjust and be fine as long as you stick to it. I would realllly encourage her parents to get on board. An 11mo fast becomes an 18mo and a 2+ year old who is still rocked to sleep. I have a dck who is still rocked to sleep at home, and they are transitioning to big girl bed, now their solution is to lay next to her and pat. She's 2! Goodness!
Reply
daycarediva 10:52 AM 01-21-2014
I do checks on YOUNG infants learning to self soothe, an 11mo KNOWS if she screams you will come check/get her. I think rechecking will just amp up her cries at this point.
Reply
Heidi 10:58 AM 01-21-2014
Originally Posted by Josiegirl:
Well now wait a minute, I thought(for the ones that say don't go in until naptime is over) we were supposed to go in, talk quietly to them, reassure them, something like every 5-10 minutes, making that time between, a little longer. Am I not remembering that right?

I've got a 9 yo SA today that is like a lil mama and she's begging me to let her go cuddle with her. So that makes me feel even guiltier.
I can do this. I can do this. Just wish the parents had done it before.
Sure, when they're 7 months old. But, she's not, and every time you go in there, you know she's getting MORE pissed off. I think it's rip-the-bandaide-off-all-at-one now.

Poor baby...and poor you. I KNOW you're not loving this. Hang in there...

If you're using the sleep-training method, then it's 5 minutes, then 7, then 10, then 12, etc. Each length is longer, and NO talking. Just go in, lay her down, walk out. She's just supposed to know she's not forgotten.

After nap, give her a little extra cuddle time, if you can . Alhtough, it sound like she'll fall asleep THEN....
Reply
Play Care 11:08 AM 01-21-2014
Originally Posted by lovemykidstoo:
She's an 11 month old, not 2. I have had it take up to 3 or 4 weeks for that age. She's just adjusting. I think that she's not going to get it for a little bit. She's probably just scared. This is a whole new place and whole new people for her. Make sure her needs are met and have minimal contact with her when she's supposed to be sleeping. When you go in, just give her a pat and leave.
Oops! For some reason I read 2 yo off to clean my glasses!
Reply
lovemykidstoo 11:32 AM 01-21-2014
Originally Posted by Play Care:
Oops! For some reason I read 2 yo off to clean my glasses!
hahaha!!!!
Reply
Heidi 01:08 PM 01-21-2014
Josie...did she ever end up falling asleep?

If she falls asleep for even 10 minutes, you're on the road there. Remember that. The hard part for her right now is FALLING asleep on her own. The STAYING asleep is secondary.
Reply
Unregistered 03:17 PM 01-21-2014
How long would you leave a child to cry though...? Wouldn't leaving them in a crib for over an hour be considered neglect?
Reply
Josiegirl 03:27 PM 01-21-2014
Thank you everybody. I guess a huge part of me feels guilty letting a baby cry. For some reason it feels like it goes totally against 'mother's nature'.

I let her cry until most of the other kids were waking up anyways. I went to get her, she gulped down 6 oz. and fell right to sleep sitting up. I knew she would. I laid her back down in the p'n'p and left the door open so she'd hear all the noise. She slept almost 40 minutes, her parents came maybe half an hour later and couldn't understand why she was grumpy. I asked dcm how long she naps at home. I was told sometimes 30 minutes and sometimes she'll take 2 2hr. naps at her grandmas. But evidently she falls asleep drinking the bottle.

Guess we'll keep working on this. I have no other kids that nap in the a.m. and since she fights it so dang much, I'll probably just keep her awake til the others lay down. But 2 hours of baby crying. Eeks.
Reply
Heidi 04:12 PM 01-21-2014
ok...now that makes a little sense.

I would taper off, honestly.

Getting her used to you, used to sleeping alone in a bed, AND going to sleep without a bottle all at once seems like a lot to ask.

I'd put everyone else to bed as she sees. Then, take her in the room, lay her down with the bottle. Room dark, sit nearby, let her drink bottle. When she falls asleep, take it away and tuck her in, then leave.

Each day, put a little less in the bottle, and water it down a little, too. Offer full-strength formula only by cup.

You have to stay with her when she drinks that bottle for safety reasons.

I had a girl years ago who went to sleep with a bottle. AT THREE! My daughter was a week older, and it seemed soooo weird to think they were the same age. Said girl also had completely black teeth. Poor girl!

I did the above, although I could talk to her, so after she got to know me and felt safe, I just said "C...no more". By then, she was getting half a bottle with water only.
Reply
Josiegirl 04:22 PM 01-21-2014
Heidi, thank you, that sounds really good to me! I'm going to try that starting tomorrow.
I have to admit, with every one of my own babies I was a rocker and a cuddler, they were terrible nappers. BUT the difference being was that I was their caregiver. If I'd expected someone else to care for them, hopefully I would've trained them for the reality of group care.
Reply
Heidi 05:01 PM 01-21-2014
Originally Posted by Josiegirl:
Heidi, thank you, that sounds really good to me! I'm going to try that starting tomorrow.
I have to admit, with every one of my own babies I was a rocker and a cuddler, they were terrible nappers. BUT the difference being was that I was their caregiver. If I'd expected someone else to care for them, hopefully I would've trained them for the reality of group care.
I got lucky...in a way.

My oldest had siezures, and in order to combat them, he was on Phenobarbital for the first 6 months of his life.

Don't know if that was why he was so mellow, or if it was just his temperament (he is still pretty mellow at 24), but he set the precident for me. He slept through the night at 6 weeks, napped on his own when I put him in his bassinet (on his tummy per doctor recommendation at the time). He was just SO easy most of the time. So, I just expected all my babies to be that way. Since he was my first baby experience, he taught ME.

So, that's how I've always been with my own kids and dck's. Sure, I held them and cuddled them. But, I never want them dependent on that to sleep. So, although they started out sleeping on my chest, I'd end up moving them to their bed after a while. I'd keep encouraging longer and more wakeful periods on their own. I'd lay them down with a book propped up near them and do housework nearby. If they cried, I'd comfort, but with a belly rub and soft words, not always picking them up. If that didn't do the trick, THEN I'd hold them or feed them or whatever. Basically, my instinct was to interfere the least I could and still support and love them. Not out of laziness, but because I wanted to see what they could do for themselves. Turns out, even a 5 week old has SOME skills.

Anyway...I digress....again...

In all these years, the one thing I've learned is that the older a child is, the harder it is to change their patterns. People think "oh, I will sleep train when he is 6 months...but they don't. Then, baby is sitting up, and they don't because he looks so pathetic sitting there bawling. Soon enough, he's standing on the crib, and gosh, we don't want him to get hurt and fall over. I say, get them comfortable with it early, and the poor little stinkers don't have to pay for it later. It's a gradual process, but we end up making it this harsh CIO thing because we are given no choice. I HATE that! It's IS hard to listen to, and it feels wrong, because it's unfair to baby. Still, it's going to feel just as bad, if not worse, when she's yelling "Josieee......" as well as screaming her head off.
Reply
Josiegirl 10:45 AM 01-22-2014
sigh This isn't working. I gave her the bottle to lay down with. She completely refused to lay down. Dcm told me today she gave her oldest dd a bottle of water to lay down with til she was 3 yo. I have a feeling I won't get much support from mom and dad.
Reply
Heidi 11:37 AM 01-22-2014
then, I'm afraid it's going to have to be tough love. I suggest you turn on every fan in the house...and the stove vent...and the bathroom hood.

So sorry....

I was really trying to help you avoid the CIO, but I really think it's the only way. Truth is, at 11 months, I wouldn't even give her ANY bottles at my house anymore. She's supposed to be done with them next month.

Pick a ritual, and stick to it 100% every day. I'd go with one nap only. No way you can put her and you through that 2x every day.

Also, Do NOT let her fall asleep anywhere else in the am. One 5 minute snooze in the corner may power her up long enough to get a second wind.


Oh, and don't apologize to her about having to go to bed. She's a LUCKY little girl to have a nice, warm, cozy bed to rest in. You will see her after she has a nice rest, and then you can PLAY! YAY!

If she isn't whipped into shape by next Friday, give yourself permission to term.
Reply
craftymissbeth 12:17 PM 01-22-2014
Originally Posted by Josiegirl:
sigh This isn't working. I gave her the bottle to lay down with. She completely refused to lay down. Dcm told me today she gave her oldest dd a bottle of water to lay down with til she was 3 yo. I have a feeling I won't get much support from mom and dad.
This is your chance to whip her into shape so I would nix the bottle at nap time. I would begin offering bottles at meal times only. In a month she's going to be off bottles altogether so there's no reason to let her get used to a bottle at nap while she's with you, kwim?

I have to say that when it comes to naps I'm pretty "strict", though.
Reply
Josiegirl 03:09 PM 01-22-2014
Same scenario as yesterday, wouldn't nap, until naptime was over and I put her in the highchair at snack time, gave her a bottle, she promptly fell asleep. I put her in the pack n play, she slept a whole whopping 15 minutes. She was an angel until about 10 this a.m., then ever since she either cried or needed to be held. At one point I put her in the bedroom just so I could get away from her crying and neediness for a few minutes and give some attention to some of the others.
It's so hard cause I've come to really like the parents and love their other little girl who comes here. They're nice people. Just softies.
Reply
Heidi 03:14 PM 01-22-2014
Originally Posted by Josiegirl:
Same scenario as yesterday, wouldn't nap, until naptime was over and I put her in the highchair at snack time, gave her a bottle, she promptly fell asleep. I put her in the pack n play, she slept a whole whopping 15 minutes. She was an angel until about 10 this a.m., then ever since she either cried or needed to be held. At one point I put her in the bedroom just so I could get away from her crying and neediness for a few minutes and give some attention to some of the others.
It's so hard cause I've come to really like the parents and love their other little girl who comes here. They're nice people. Just softies.
You're just going to have to keep at it...sorry... She will eventually get it, I promise.

I would only give her cups of formula, though...no more bottles.
Reply
Jack Sprat 11:27 AM 03-11-2014
Thank goodness I found this! I have a newbie (12 months) here as well. Same scenario! This is her 2nd day. At home she is used to being rocked to sleep with a bottle and naps with mom. Yesterday and today she fell asleep in the van on way home from dropping DD at school. Yesterday she napped for 45 min and screamed for 30 minutes. Today she woke up when I laid her down but, went back to sleep. She has slept for 45 min, coughed pretty hard and woke up. She is crying off and on now. A mad as hell kind of cry. Part of me wants to go and rock and give her the bottle but, I know in the long run that will create more issues. She does great all morning, but I know she is exhausted! She is used to sleeping till 8. She arrives here at 7. I have thought about doing two naps but, like a PP said I can't stand the thought of going through this twice a day. Her parents are expecting there 2nd in May, and are hoping that the bottle and naps can be figured out by then. Thing is I don't see them doing Ferber or CIO but, I did explain that just because she does it here doesn't mean it will be like that at home

OP how is your little one doing?
Reply
Heidi 11:55 AM 03-11-2014
Originally Posted by Jack Sprat:
Thank goodness I found this! I have a newbie (12 months) here as well. Same scenario! This is her 2nd day. At home she is used to being rocked to sleep with a bottle and naps with mom. Yesterday and today she fell asleep in the van on way home from dropping DD at school. Yesterday she napped for 45 min and screamed for 30 minutes. Today she woke up when I laid her down but, went back to sleep. She has slept for 45 min, coughed pretty hard and woke up. She is crying off and on now. A mad as hell kind of cry. Part of me wants to go and rock and give her the bottle but, I know in the long run that will create more issues. She does great all morning, but I know she is exhausted! She is used to sleeping till 8. She arrives here at 7. I have thought about doing two naps but, like a PP said I can't stand the thought of going through this twice a day. Her parents are expecting there 2nd in May, and are hoping that the bottle and naps can be figured out by then. Thing is I don't see them doing Ferber or CIO but, I did explain that just because she does it here doesn't mean it will be like that at home

OP how is your little one doing?




Yes...update, please?
Reply
Josiegirl 03:57 PM 03-11-2014
Unfortunately, I never made it the 2 week trial period. The dcps are wonderful(I have their other dd) but they were hoping I'd be the one to train their littlest into napping after 11 months of being rocked to sleep. I told the dcps halfway into the 2nd week that it was affecting me and the care I was offering the rest of the group. What clinched the decision for me was having chest pains during the night before I told them and I was really starting to hate each day. I went back and forth so many times, and apologized over and over because I really did feel badly about failing them. But without her here, it's been nice. They found another dc and the part that kinda bothers me is they never tried to work with me on her sleeping issues but did as soon as they had to look for other dc.

I hope, Jack Sprat, your outcome is better than mine. But if it starts affecting you, and the rest of your kiddos, don't beat yourself up if it doesn't work out.
Reply
blandino 04:15 PM 03-11-2014
Originally Posted by Josiegirl:
They found another dc and the part that kinda bothers me is they never tried to work with me on her sleeping issues but did as soon as they had to look for other dc.

.
Yes, that can be quite annoying. But it is simply their misplaced anger/frustration. They SHOULD be irritated at themselves for causing this whole fiasco. However, people are quite horrible at letting the blame fall on themselves. They will blame you, in some ways (i.e. not trying to work on it), but they will fix it for another DCP.

It's very obnoxious, but the biggest lesson I have seen being a provider, is that people will blame everyone for their own issues, except themselves.
Reply
Laurel 04:35 PM 03-11-2014
I had a problem with a baby that age. He wouldn't sleep at all. So I tried different things and nothing worked. Finally, after months, I told the parents that I had a plan but if it didn't work then I wouldn't be able to watch him anymore. Wow, did they shape up and he was sleeping in a week and well.

It turns out that he would wake up at about 6 a.m. and they would give him a bottle and let him go back to sleep and arrive at 9 a.m. to my house. Once they stopped that and kept him up he slept at my house (and his at night). I didn't know what was going on at their house but I knew they did all kinds of things to get him to sleep at night including putting him in their bed and rocking him, etc.

I told them that I just couldn't work an 11 hour day with no break. They completely understood and said they would work on it. My plan was changing my whole nap system around. I decided to do like they must do in centers. Usually each child here has their own room to sleep in. I decided to have 3 in a room and I stayed in it (the one with my computer in it so I wouldn't feel like I wasn't getting a break). I took my two mat nappers and put his crib in the middle of the two of them. My idea was to have them show the baby how to sleep. The two and three year old 'really' got into this. They were still to 'show him' how big kids slept. He could lie down and still see them.

Then I set up a routine. After lunch, I'd put them down, make the room fairly dark, and put this music on youtube http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vU0fYzuypXg. Gosh, I even love this music and it goes for 8 full hours. It repeats about 5 or 6 songs. We use it every single day now. I rub backs if needed but don't have to do the baby's at all.

The combination of giving the parents an ultimatum (and I hated to cause they are wonderful) and doing my plan has worked and is still working. Yesterday though before lunch we were walking home from the park and he fell asleep in his stroller. Even that 15 minutes made him not nap AT ALL yesterday. So the key was once he gets up in the a.m. he stays up until nap.

Hope that helps.

Laurel
Reply
Jack Sprat 08:14 AM 03-12-2014
Dcb was very tired this morning. I wanted to avoid morning nap but, today she really needed it. I changed her laid her down at 9:30 she screamed till 9:40 when I went to check on her. Well, she had pooped. So, changed that. Held her for a minute really no more then that and laid her back down. She was sitting up, eyes closed, head swaying, screaming! I did try to lay her down. That was a mistake! Now, its quite in there has been for about 5 minutes. We do lunch at 11 so I will be waking her a little before then. She is doing great other then sleeping.
Reply
Heidi 10:41 AM 03-12-2014
Originally Posted by Jack Sprat:
Dcb was very tired this morning. I wanted to avoid morning nap but, today she really needed it. I changed her laid her down at 9:30 she screamed till 9:40 when I went to check on her. Well, she had pooped. So, changed that. Held her for a minute really no more then that and laid her back down. She was sitting up, eyes closed, head swaying, screaming! I did try to lay her down. That was a mistake! Now, its quite in there has been for about 5 minutes. We do lunch at 11 so I will be waking her a little before then. She is doing great other then sleeping.
Mine that age ( from 6-18 months or so) get a nap right after breakfast for 45 minutes (I wake them up), and then a full afternoon nap with the others at 12:15/12:30 (3 hours).

Here's my suggestions, amend as you need:

We have the same routine after breakfast and lunch. We eat together, then we read a story, then we sing the nighty night song (nighty nighty nighty night, nighty nighty nighty) dumb, but simple and a good "cue". You can make up your own song. Mine has no real tune...

Then I take each one to their bed (wave night night). My advice is take any other nappers first, then her, and have her see that other's are napping, too (unless in the am no one is...still try to stick as close to the ritual as possible). Put her in bed, say "I will come back when nap is over", tuck her in, and walk away. THE END.

After 45 minutes, go into the room singing "It time to wake up" brightly and loudly (tune of Happy Birthday), so she can hear you coming, and wake her up. Roses and sunshine...oh, did you have a nice nap? blah blah blah. Next nap, same thing, only longer time period. I have one who does not sleep as long, but he has a couple toys and a book (allowed here...no stuffed toys) and his pacifier, and he is learning to play and wait if he wakes up early. I still tell him "if you wake up early, you can play or look at your book. I will come back when nap is over".

The 8 month old here sometimes wakes up early. I go in, give paci, and say whisper "it's still nap time. Your friends are still sleeping. I will come back when nap is over". I will go in ONE time, and only after he's slept. It rarely happens, though, because even he will play quietly and wait now, on those rare occasions he wakes early.

Then, at the end of nap time...same thing again. Loud singing, same song.

My kids started singing along to the nighty night song at 10 or 11 months. It's hilarious to have 3 babies/toddlers singing with you, bobbing their heads back and forth.
Reply
Jack Sprat 11:07 AM 03-12-2014
Originally Posted by Heidi:
Mine that age ( from 6-18 months or so) get a nap right after breakfast for 45 minutes (I wake them up), and then a full afternoon nap with the others at 12:15/12:30 (3 hours).

Here's my suggestions, amend as you need:

We have the same routine after breakfast and lunch. We eat together, then we read a story, then we sing the nighty night song (nighty nighty nighty night, nighty nighty nighty) dumb, but simple and a good "cue". You can make up your own song. Mine has no real tune...

Then I take each one to their bed (wave night night). My advice is take any other nappers first, then her, and have her see that other's are napping, too (unless in the am no one is...still try to stick as close to the ritual as possible). Put her in bed, say "I will come back when nap is over", tuck her in, and walk away. THE END.

After 45 minutes, go into the room singing "It time to wake up" brightly and loudly (tune of Happy Birthday), so she can hear you coming, and wake her up. Roses and sunshine...oh, did you have a nice nap? blah blah blah. Next nap, same thing, only longer time period. I have one who does not sleep as long, but he has a couple toys and a book (allowed here...no stuffed toys) and his pacifier, and he is learning to play and wait if he wakes up early. I still tell him "if you wake up early, you can play or look at your book. I will come back when nap is over".

The 8 month old here sometimes wakes up early. I go in, give paci, and say whisper "it's still nap time. Your friends are still sleeping. I will come back when nap is over". I will go in ONE time, and only after he's slept. It rarely happens, though, because even he will play quietly and wait now, on those rare occasions he wakes early.

Then, at the end of nap time...same thing again. Loud singing, same song.

My kids started singing along to the nighty night song at 10 or 11 months. It's hilarious to have 3 babies/toddlers singing with you, bobbing their heads back and forth.
We are similar with routine here. All my others are one nap a day kids. We read books right after lunch and do diaper changes. The older ones (2's) know the routine and handed her some books today. She comes in the room with me and watches them pick out their lovies, I tuck each one in and start their nap time music. I tell them "happy nappy and love you little men" and off I go. I took her in to her nap room. Closed curtains, said "good night world" cue the crying , turned on Pandora to Chopin, laid her down, and left the room. She did cry but, has been quiet for 19 minutes. I think she is getting better. The first day her nap was maybe 30 minutes. This morning she woke up after 45 min. But, she was happy and ready for lunch. DCM said she has been eating more at home then she has in months, she is also eating well here. I did mention that it may be because she only gets bottle right before nap and has to sit and drink it or I have to be holding her. DCM said at home she is allowed to have it whenever.
Reply
Heidi 11:11 AM 03-12-2014
Originally Posted by Jack Sprat:
We are similar with routine here. All my others are one nap a day kids. We read books right after lunch and do diaper changes. The older ones (2's) know the routine and handed her some books today. She comes in the room with me and watches them pick out their lovies, I tuck each one in and start their nap time music. I tell them "happy nappy and love you little men" and off I go. I took her in to her nap room. Closed curtains, said "good night world" cue the crying , turned on Pandora to Chopin, laid her down, and left the room. She did cry but, has been quiet for 19 minutes. I think she is getting better. The first day her nap was maybe 30 minutes. This morning she woke up after 45 min. But, she was happy and ready for lunch. DCM said she has been eating more at home then she has in months, she is also eating well here. I did mention that it may be because she only gets bottle right before nap and has to sit and drink it or I have to be holding her. DCM said at home she is allowed to have it whenever.
Oh, you've got this!

I think I would just try the morning nap, if she needs one, as early as feasible. That way, she will sleep in the afternoon, too, and you'll get that break. Mine are here at 7-7:30, though, so the are up at 6:15 already. If they could sleep later, they'd probably drop the a.m. nap now.
Reply
Jack Sprat 11:09 AM 03-13-2014
Originally Posted by Heidi:
Oh, you've got this!

I think I would just try the morning nap, if she needs one, as early as feasible. That way, she will sleep in the afternoon, too, and you'll get that break. Mine are here at 7-7:30, though, so the are up at 6:15 already. If they could sleep later, they'd probably drop the a.m. nap now.

Going to try that! Today she sat in the little rocking chair and slept for 30 minutes. She probably would have slept longer but, it was lunch time. She cried today for 20 minutes before she stopped. At one point when I looked in she was standing in the corner scratching the pack n play quietly! I think she like the scratchy noise.
Reply
Heidi 11:51 AM 03-13-2014
Originally Posted by Jack Sprat:
Going to try that! Today she sat in the little rocking chair and slept for 30 minutes. She probably would have slept longer but, it was lunch time. She cried today for 20 minutes before she stopped. At one point when I looked in she was standing in the corner scratching the pack n play quietly! I think she like the scratchy noise.

Yeah! She is learning to self-soothe.

So...what time does she get there? Why is she falling asleep in the rocker? I personally, would not allow it. Sorry, but I'd sweetly get her up immediately and say "I know you're tired, it's almost rest time...we sleep in our beds at rest time".

If she needs a morning nap, she needs it early, otherwise, she waits. It's ok if she's a little crabby until she gets used to it.

Can you move lunch and nap up a little for a couple weeks, then once she's used to the routine, you can push it back?
Reply
Jack Sprat 12:09 PM 03-13-2014
She sat down in the chair while I was making lunch. Honestly, I thought about waking her up but, didn't as it made it easier to get lunch fixed. She gets here at 7a. So an early morning nap around 8:30 I think would be perfect. Although that screaming business kills me. We eat lunch at 11:00 so I really don't want to move it to an earlier time. I could even do an 8:15 nap. We eat breakfast at 7:45. She usually eats before she gets here(and with us) and of course has a bottle with her when she arrives. She did wake up after 40 min today. I peeked in and she was laying down, but crying. I watched her for a bit and she is now back asleep. I feel horrid and really want to go in and hold her. But, I do know in the long run this is best for her.

DCM has asked me to help wean her from the bottle. At this point that is the least of my concerns. I explained to mom that my first goal was to get her to nap. Then we would work on the bottle. She gets it at nap time only so it (to me) isn't as big of a deal as the sleeping thing. I also explained again lol that just because it happens at daycare doesn't mean it will happen at home.
Reply
Heidi 12:26 PM 03-13-2014
Originally Posted by Jack Sprat:
She sat down in the chair while I was making lunch. Honestly, I thought about waking her up but, didn't as it made it easier to get lunch fixed. She gets here at 7a. So an early morning nap around 8:30 I think would be perfect. Although that screaming business kills me. We eat lunch at 11:00 so I really don't want to move it to an earlier time. I could even do an 8:15 nap. We eat breakfast at 7:45. She usually eats before she gets here(and with us) and of course has a bottle with her when she arrives. She did wake up after 40 min today. I peeked in and she was laying down, but crying. I watched her for a bit and she is now back asleep. I feel horrid and really want to go in and hold her. But, I do know in the long run this is best for her.

DCM has asked me to help wean her from the bottle. At this point that is the least of my concerns. I explained to mom that my first goal was to get her to nap. Then we would work on the bottle. She gets it at nap time only so it (to me) isn't as big of a deal as the sleeping thing. I also explained again lol that just because it happens at daycare doesn't mean it will happen at home.
That's pretty early for lunch already then, agreed. Totally understand that about letting her fall asleep then, too. It's a real challenge to get lunch on the table some days!

I'd lay her down for a short nap right after breakfast, like you said. Maybe you could drop the mid-day bottle first? She'll in theory be full of lunch. Maybe just let her have a cup of formula with lunch, then whatever she doesn't finish goes in the bottle. If she drinks it all, skip the bottle completely. Bet she won't even notice that.
Reply
Scout 05:05 PM 03-13-2014
Last summer I started an 11 mo old that also got rocked to sleep. I had no choice but, to let him cry(and he would scream) until he didn't cry anymore and just gave up. I ended up after a day or 2 putting 2 toys in his pnp and for his morning nap would leave him in there with the toys until he got the hang of it. It only took about a week. He is such a great sleeper now! I put him in there, kiss his cheek, put music and a fan on and say "night buddy, see you in a bit" and walk out. I think she just has to get used to the fact that you are not going in.

A few weeks ago I started a 15 mo and she is in the same room with the above little boy. She would talk and talk for an hour and a half for the first week or so and then only sleep 45 min-1 hr. Now, I have an empty pnp between them and I hang a blanket over the side of the empty one so she can not see him. She is now a pretty good napper too! Only talks for about 5 min and then gets quiet and goes to sleep for 2 hours or longer! Don't give in!!
Reply
misslori50 03:45 PM 03-16-2014
Originally Posted by lovemykidstoo:
She's an 11 month old, not 2. I have had it take up to 3 or 4 weeks for that age. She's just adjusting. I think that she's not going to get it for a little bit. She's probably just scared. This is a whole new place and whole new people for her. Make sure her needs are met and have minimal contact with her when she's supposed to be sleeping. When you go in, just give her a pat and leave.
I agree. Wouldn't a 11 month old still be taking 2 naps a day.
Reply
Jack Sprat 05:25 AM 03-17-2014
Most that I have known took two naps till 18 months. I don't think she has ever napped well at home. So the whole nap transition is going to be hard.

When she arrives with her bottle in hand I have been taking it and putting it away. She doesn't complain. So its milk at breakfast and lunch from sippy, milk at nap from bottle and water at snack if she is here for snack. Today she doesn't arrive till 11. So I'm not sure what her morning will be like. I know she sleeps till at least 8 and will sometimes take a 45 minute morning nap at home.

I plan on keeping same routine and nap time for her today as on her early arrival days.
Reply
Jack Sprat 12:27 PM 03-18-2014
Today I turned on the vacuum. DCM said she was afraid of it. I vacuumed and she didn't blink an eye. So it got me thinking maybe that would help with nap time. I already have the humidifier going and music. Not sure if its the vacuum, her getting used to our routine, or her not sleeping "at all" last night like dcm said. All I know is she has been asleep for an hour! The longest time ever since she began. I will be doing the same tomorrow. Hoping for same results!
Reply
Lyss 01:01 PM 03-18-2014
Originally Posted by Jack Sprat:
Today I turned on the vacuum. DCM said she was afraid of it. I vacuumed and she didn't blink an eye. So it got me thinking maybe that would help with nap time. I already have the humidifier going and music. Not sure if its the vacuum, her getting used to our routine, or her not sleeping "at all" last night like dcm said. All I know is she has been asleep for an hour! The longest time ever since she began. I will be doing the same tomorrow. Hoping for same results!


I had a difficult napper that only napped with a noisy box fan on high (not pointed at her) or a waterfall cd on fairly loud, it was like night and day.
Reply
Tags:cio, cry it out, ferberizing, motion soothing, self sooth
Reply Up