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  #1  
Old 01-20-2012, 10:02 AM
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Default Provider Not Doing Right WWYD?

I took on a client that had been calling me for at least a year trying to get in but couldn't afford my rate. Finally she decided she had enough of her other provider when she didn't pick the child up from the bus stop. Child had to walk alone the providers home a couple blocks away, (age 7). She was willing to pay the extra $100 per month to get him out of there. I took her in and my gosh the sad sad stories I have heard about the other provider. DCM wanted to report her but is afraid of retaliation so she just said her child is safe now that's all that matters.

BUT the child and DCM have told me things that go on there that not only make me mad but that are def against regulations and abusive. Few examples are:

The kids are only given water with meals no milk and the meal is usually mac N cheese, bologna sandwhich or spaghetti. When he saw all the things I served over the past 2 months he is shocked and comments how much he likes the different foods and he likes getting to eat more than once. He obviously didn't like brussle sprouts but he ate them anyway then begged the toddlers to eat theirs so he didn't have to. I asked why he was doing this. He said Lisa didn't allow waste. If a child didnt eat the food it would be scraped onto the other kids and so on until it was all eaten. Worse is she is on the food program so she is cheating and abusing the kids and getting paid for it! She has 10 kids and is only permitted 6 so she's probably cheating the food to save money.

She makes the kids clean up after her dogs and cats food mess and sweep up bird feathers before they can play anything. 1 of the dogs has nipped a few dif kids but it was not reported.

The child said the 18 yr old daughter yells, and hits kids. She pickes the toddlers up by the arm and swings and smacks their bottoms. He said the SA kids don't get hit anymore but the little ones do.

She has babies up to SA and they are all put in 1 small playroom and left alone while she lays on her living room sofa watching TV all day. Her 18 yr old daughter will check on the kids once in a while to get a baby diaper change or give a bottle then the babies go back in the playpen and she shuts the door and leaves. They have a tv in there and toys to keep the kids busy all day. No circle time, no crafts, no music except for what they sometimes hear from the living room. There is no nap time unless a child falls asleep on his own. Kids only come out for lunch. Oh and child told me provider and her daughter "need new clothes because their boobies and stomachs always hang out"

What do I do? There is so much more but you get the idea. I want to report her but I did not witness any of this myself and DCM isn't reporting her. Some kids tell stories but there is just so much here and it comes out at dif times so I think it's the truth for the most part. We will be into a subject and things just come up and he will say "At Lisa's house.... " WWYD?
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Old 01-20-2012, 10:09 AM
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Omg!!!!!!! No advice but those poooooooor kids
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Old 01-20-2012, 10:17 AM
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You are a mandated reporter - make that call.
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Old 01-20-2012, 10:20 AM
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The worst thing that could happen is the person you report this to tells you it isn't enough to make a report. I'd definitely call and tell them what you've been told and maybe talk to mom again and get her permission to give the abuse hotline her information.
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Old 01-20-2012, 10:22 AM
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Oh dear God this makes me so angry!!!! Please please please report her!!!
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Old 01-20-2012, 10:25 AM
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I would call and let the authorities decide what is okay or not. Keep in mind that you are getting all this info from a 4 year old. I would be more concerned about the DCM that let this go on for so long......why did she let her son stay there?!?
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Old 01-20-2012, 10:26 AM
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Originally Posted by Zoe View Post
The worst thing that could happen is the person you report this to tells you it isn't enough to make a report. I'd definitely call and tell them what you've been told and maybe talk to mom again and get her permission to give the abuse hotline her information.
That's what I am afraid of. I have made reports in the past and because I didn't witness the problem with my own eyes it could not be investigated. But the issues weren't as bad as this. I will call today and see what they say. I hate to become a 'tattle tale' if the reports are false kwim?
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Old 01-20-2012, 10:28 AM
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This is all hearsay. Unless you have actually witnessed these things yourself, I would consider it to be hearsay.

I strongly suggest you persuade the person who knows this to be true to report it. If she is no longer attending then she shouldn't fear any type of retailiation.

I have heard dozens of stories from disgruntled parents in regard to their previous providers..... I can't say for certain any of them were true.
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Old 01-20-2012, 10:29 AM
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Originally Posted by cheerfuldom View Post
I would call and let the authorities decide what is okay or not. Keep in mind that you are getting all this info from a 4 year old. I would be more concerned about the DCM that let this go on for so long......why did she let her son stay there?!?
Age 7. I asked her that and she said she needed care and is just a few bucks out of range for assistance and the provider only charged her $15 for a 9 hr day and $5 per day for after school care.

I have seen it before these providers that aren't educated or don't care get kids in by offering low prices and parents bite.
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Old 01-20-2012, 10:31 AM
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Originally Posted by PitterPatter View Post
That's what I am afraid of. I have made reports in the past and because I didn't witness the problem with my own eyes it could not be investigated. But the issues weren't as bad as this. I will call today and see what they say. I hate to become a 'tattle tale' if the reports are false kwim?
Don't be afraid of it. Just be honest with them. They hear this stuff all the time and will be able to make an informed decision on whether it's reportable or not. They can help you with this! You are not a tattle tale, you are doing what is right. Somebody needs to report this even if it does turn out to be inaccurate.

I called once about a girl who had a bruise under her eye and was saying something that sounded like "mommy did it" but I wasn't sure. I called anyway and told them that I really wasn't sure what to do. They calmed me down a lot by taking down the family's information to see if there were any prior incidents and then assured me that sometimes the child is saying "mommy fixed it" and it turns out to be nothing.

On the off chance there really is something going on, it's better for you to be safe than sorry.
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Old 01-20-2012, 10:45 AM
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Originally Posted by Zoe View Post
Don't be afraid of it. Just be honest with them. They hear this stuff all the time and will be able to make an informed decision on whether it's reportable or not. They can help you with this! You are not a tattle tale, you are doing what is right. Somebody needs to report this even if it does turn out to be inaccurate.

I called once about a girl who had a bruise under her eye and was saying something that sounded like "mommy did it" but I wasn't sure. I called anyway and told them that I really wasn't sure what to do. They calmed me down a lot by taking down the family's information to see if there were any prior incidents and then assured me that sometimes the child is saying "mommy fixed it" and it turns out to be nothing.

On the off chance there really is something going on, it's better for you to be safe than sorry.


I feel this child is being specific enough with details to guess that this is true. He's not saying something like "yes she hit me" he's giving detailed accounts of abusive practices that wouldn't naturally occur in a childs head. He's also spontaneously reacting to things the way someone who is abused reacts. Unless the mom is making up these elaborate stories and then getting the kid to tell them to you which is doubtful.
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Old 01-20-2012, 10:51 AM
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Originally Posted by Blackcat31 View Post
This is all hearsay. Unless you have actually witnessed these things yourself, I would consider it to be hearsay.

I strongly suggest you persuade the person who knows this to be true to report it. If she is no longer attending then she shouldn't fear any type of retailiation.

I have heard dozens of stories from disgruntled parents in regard to their previous providers..... I can't say for certain any of them were true.
In my state it doesn't matter if it's hearsay. We are told in training that if you suspect anything at all to report it. Whether it is true or untrue is up to the investigators, not you.

I'd make the call.
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Old 01-20-2012, 10:56 AM
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If I felt strongly that there was something to the stories I'd probably call the provider and invite her to go to a super saturday conference with me. Free mandatory training hours. (I'd just pay for it myself.)

Depending on her response.... I'd help her turn things around OR call my inspector with a heads up and my concerns.

BUT I am in a small town, everyone knows me or my family and I am about the size of a typical 11 year old.... NOBODY is threatened by me....

Not everyone is born knowing Child Development issues or that eating off each others plate is not allowed...YKWIM? My first few years I still put their noses in the corner.... that was what I knew from childhood. The word "cruel" or "abusive" seemed laughable to me for that....
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Old 01-20-2012, 11:00 AM
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I get that, I really do but in this particular situation I am only saying that as a provider we often hear so many different stories about what supposedly goes on at other daycares. If I called every time I heard one of those stories, I would be on the phone ALL the time.

I would be more tempted to do as Catherder said and call my licensor with my concerns rather than calling in and reporting to the CPS department.

I am NOT saying these examples upsetting but I would spend more time encouraging the mom to call and report. Heck, even hold her hand and walk her through the phone call while she uses your phone.
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Old 01-20-2012, 11:12 AM
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Is she registered? If not right there should be a reason you are calling let them discover if everything else is true on their own.
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Old 01-20-2012, 11:23 AM
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You've gotten some really good advice here. I just had one more thought. Do you have a friend that could go and "pretend" to want daycare? Could they maybe just "drop by" her house and say that they heard she did daycare and wanted to see if she had room for their child? Could they see the daycare?

If they could get in and get a tour without it being expected, there would be more than hearsay. This person is horrible IF all of this is true. I have been the victim of malicious gossip and I know how terrible it can be if it isn't true, so I would want some sort of proof, or I'd want to talk to someone else before I turned someone in. Or..... I'd just stop over myself, introduce myself, say "I understand you do daycare in the area too and was just wanting to introduce myself? Mind if I come in?"

Just another thought to add to the pot.
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Old 01-20-2012, 11:33 AM
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that child is giving way too many details. I would call someone and ask them what should you do. also, see if you can drop by the providers house, if this is what is going on it needs to be reported otherwise we are going to be hearing it on the news.
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Old 01-20-2012, 12:36 PM
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that child is giving way too many details. I would call someone and ask them what should you do. also, see if you can drop by the providers house, if this is what is going on it needs to be reported otherwise we are going to be hearing it on the news.
I agree with this.... How sad. I know having a a 7year old myself that they can tell you what's going on and not make up stuff. I hope if this is happening that she is shut down fast.
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Old 01-20-2012, 12:46 PM
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Sounds exactly like my daycare provider from when I was little...right down to the bi*tchy 18yo daughter.... If it wasn't for my mom walking in and witnessing her spanking my 1yo brother with a paddle I would have been there a lot longer, despite me telling my mom to the best of my ability that she was mean.

I'd call and report.
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Old 01-20-2012, 01:34 PM
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Sounds exactly like my daycare provider from when I was little...right down to the bi*tchy 18yo daughter.... If it wasn't for my mom walking in and witnessing her spanking my 1yo brother with a paddle I would have been there a lot longer, despite me telling my mom to the best of my ability that she was mean.

I'd call and report.
I am sorry that happened to you and your brother.
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Old 01-20-2012, 01:38 PM
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I would call and at least see what they say. Also, I would probably beg the mom to call--"Wow, Billy is telling me some terrible things about his old provider...what do you know about it?" and then if it really is true, urge her to call because seriously...that's totally warranted.
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Old 01-20-2012, 05:50 PM
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I called my licensor and he is out until next Friday. When DCM came for pick up I had a talk with her about all of the details her child filled me in on. I told her being an mandated reporter I have to report at least the spanking part for the safety of the children and I wanted to know if she felt ok to tell her own story of her own experiences because I am going to have to explain how I know this and then they will know she knew too. She said she has been thinking about it off and on and after reading the policies in my handbook there was much more wrong doing than she first thought. She said she will take the weekend and go over things and make a list and see what she can do. She said there is another parent still there that has been asking questions about how she was treated and how I am as a provider. I told her they could just be fishing but feel free to send her my way. Hell I'll take all that providers kids in if she can't treat them right. Well 2 anyway. Gotta stick to policies myself.

Thanks for all the advise ladies!! Have a great weekend!

Oh yeah I should highlight that "After I read the policies in your handbook" YES Providers SOME parents actually read our handbooks!
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Old 01-20-2012, 07:02 PM
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Originally Posted by PitterPatter View Post
I called my licensor and he is out until next Friday. When DCM came for pick up I had a talk with her about all of the details her child filled me in on. I told her being an mandated reporter I have to report at least the spanking part for the safety of the children and I wanted to know if she felt ok to tell her own story of her own experiences because I am going to have to explain how I know this and then they will know she knew too. She said she has been thinking about it off and on and after reading the policies in my handbook there was much more wrong doing than she first thought. She said she will take the weekend and go over things and make a list and see what she can do. She said there is another parent still there that has been asking questions about how she was treated and how I am as a provider. I told her they could just be fishing but feel free to send her my way. Hell I'll take all that providers kids in if she can't treat them right. Well 2 anyway. Gotta stick to policies myself.

Thanks for all the advise ladies!! Have a great weekend!

Oh yeah I should highlight that "After I read the policies in your handbook" YES Providers SOME parents actually read our handbooks!
Yeah glad she read the handbook!

second i so hope this provider get turned in that is just cazy. it also hits close to home my son was in a home daycare when he was an infant and my step-daughter went for 3 days. while we had her one summer. she never said anything but i did find out about 3 months later, she would put the kids in the other room with toys and leave them, then my son fell on her fire place and has a permanet scar and she never called me!!
i saw a few signs and was in the process of pulling him when he fell on the fireplace she never even called me! i came and saw it when i was picking him up
so please report her
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Old 01-20-2012, 07:08 PM
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SO french fries and happy meals are bad right
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Old 01-20-2012, 07:57 PM
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Yeah glad she read the handbook!

second i so hope this provider get turned in that is just cazy. it also hits close to home my son was in a home daycare when he was an infant and my step-daughter went for 3 days. while we had her one summer. she never said anything but i did find out about 3 months later, she would put the kids in the other room with toys and leave them, then my son fell on her fire place and has a permanet scar and she never called me!!
i saw a few signs and was in the process of pulling him when he fell on the fireplace she never even called me! i came and saw it when i was picking him up
so please report her
I am sorry that happened to your child as I am for MN Mom and her family! I just don't understand WHY people do this? They should at least be worried about being caught! My Sister had a cruel provider too and Mom never knew for years. Sis thought that's how it was supposed to be in "daycare"

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SO french fries and happy meals are bad right
Well it would be a step up from "Lisa's" meals!
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Old 01-20-2012, 08:01 PM
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It basically comes down to this....

How would you feel if tomorrow on the news you read that something horrible happened in that home and you DIDNT call and report it?

The safety of children must must must come first. Even if you have doubts, or you didnt hear or see it first hand.
You still report it, and let the authorities sort it out.
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Old 01-21-2012, 08:00 AM
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It basically comes down to this....

How would you feel if tomorrow on the news you read that something horrible happened in that home and you DIDNT call and report it?

The safety of children must must must come first. Even if you have doubts, or you didnt hear or see it first hand.
You still report it, and let the authorities sort it out.

I agree ...
Report it.
I have made several reports on one specific provider in my area..
I've had 'potential clients' contact me for child care... come to interview.. and specifically tell me.. My child went to THIS PROVIDER... I showed up to pick my child up.. provider was on the sofa.. asleep.. t.v. remote control in hand.. did not know where in the home my small child was.. .
I reported it. I know it is HEARSAY from a client leaving her care.. but... something like that should be checked out..

I hate to feel like I am 'picking on her'..but.. so many things have been told to me by clients that leave her care and are frantically searching to move their child..

The last straw was..
This provider had attended a CPR class that I hosted.. so.. she calls me one day to find out if I am hosting another class.. As we are talking.. she says... I need to get renewed... I expired such and such date. and.. after last week.. I know I will be getting inspected again..
Someone turned me in for such and such.. so child care licensing was here for random inspection.. I had this .. this.. and this wrong.. blah blah..
Then she tells me. FROM HER OWN MOUTH..
I had to go to the bank today...
so.. I sent my 11 year old son to his room.. locked him and 2 daycare children in the bedroom to watch t.v.. and told him to keep them in there.. and not to go to the front door FOR ANY REASON until I returned from the bank.... because I KNEW that if anyone came to the door... it would be licensing rep conducting another unnannounced visit...

She TOLD ME THAT HERSELF....
I just stood there on the other end of the phone line.. LISTENING..
I said.. wow.. do you think that was SAFE? OH yes.. my son is very smart.. very responsible... they just watched t.v. till I got back...

I reported her..
This was NOT HEARSAY.. she told me this information HERSELF..
It didn't matter.. she never managed to do anything WRONG enough to get shut down.... she was inspected FREQUENTLY...and had allot of various violations.. they would cite her for them.. and return more often.. (every few MONTHS)..
She actually finally shut down on her own... several months ago...
Me.. and all other local providers were so happy that we don't have to hear the stories about her ANYMORE...
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Old 01-21-2012, 02:22 PM
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This is all hearsay. Unless you have actually witnessed these things yourself, I would consider it to be hearsay.

I strongly suggest you persuade the person who knows this to be true to report it. If she is no longer attending then she shouldn't fear any type of retailiation.

I have heard dozens of stories from disgruntled parents in regard to their previous providers..... I can't say for certain any of them were true.
I agree. Parents always say horrible things about previous providers when they are unhappy. You can't make a report about what you heard 2nd hand. You have to have either witnessed or suspect it is going on from your OWN personal knowledge. The PARENT should be reporting in this case (if it's true) because she's the one with experience. It would be like me saying you're a bad provider and calling about you because of something some other parent said that may have just been a way to get me to take the kid. Now, if you get MULTIPLE parents complaining about the SAME person, that's a little different and I'd call and say "this is what 3 parents told me about this person" and they usually (depending on state) will f/u with the parents if they can. But, just be careful. I have been accused of things when I have kicked out parents. I would be PISSED if a provider called about me w/o hearing MY side of the story first.
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Old 01-21-2012, 02:27 PM
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I agree ...
Report it.
I have made several reports on one specific provider in my area..
I've had 'potential clients' contact me for child care... come to interview.. and specifically tell me.. My child went to THIS PROVIDER... I showed up to pick my child up.. provider was on the sofa.. asleep.. t.v. remote control in hand.. did not know where in the home my small child was.. .
I reported it. I know it is HEARSAY from a client leaving her care.. but... something like that should be checked out..

I hate to feel like I am 'picking on her'..but.. so many things have been told to me by clients that leave her care and are frantically searching to move their child..

The last straw was..
This provider had attended a CPR class that I hosted.. so.. she calls me one day to find out if I am hosting another class.. As we are talking.. she says... I need to get renewed... I expired such and such date. and.. after last week.. I know I will be getting inspected again..
Someone turned me in for such and such.. so child care licensing was here for random inspection.. I had this .. this.. and this wrong.. blah blah..
Then she tells me. FROM HER OWN MOUTH..
I had to go to the bank today...
so.. I sent my 11 year old son to his room.. locked him and 2 daycare children in the bedroom to watch t.v.. and told him to keep them in there.. and not to go to the front door FOR ANY REASON until I returned from the bank.... because I KNEW that if anyone came to the door... it would be licensing rep conducting another unnannounced visit...

She TOLD ME THAT HERSELF....
I just stood there on the other end of the phone line.. LISTENING..
I said.. wow.. do you think that was SAFE? OH yes.. my son is very smart.. very responsible... they just watched t.v. till I got back...

I reported her..
This was NOT HEARSAY.. she told me this information HERSELF..
It didn't matter.. she never managed to do anything WRONG enough to get shut down.... she was inspected FREQUENTLY...and had allot of various violations.. they would cite her for them.. and return more often.. (every few MONTHS)..
She actually finally shut down on her own... several months ago...
Me.. and all other local providers were so happy that we don't have to hear the stories about her ANYMORE...
In your case, the provider HERSELF gave you the dirty info about HERSELF. So yes, I would have reported her too.
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Old 01-22-2012, 06:58 PM
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That is absolutely HORRIBLE! If all that really is going on. What I just don't get is how could the mom know this is going on (I'm not talking simple policies like 10 children instead of 6 or something that she may not know the state laws on), but things like making the children eat food from another child's plate if they didn't eat it, or making the children all stay in one room with the door closed while the provider stays in the other, or the 18 yr old being so aggressive and rough with the children... any parent should KNOW that is NOT okay. If her 7 yr old is telling you this stuff, then if it really happend he would have told his mom as well. Meaning his mom was aware of it. But I just don't get why she wouldn't have pulled him out immediately when finding out any of it. No matter how bad she needed childcare, or how much cheaper this provider was than the other providers, she should have pulled her child out and contacted CPS long ago. Even if it meant not having childcare for her son and having to quit her job. No parent should allow that to continue happening to their child. Children come first. Above everything else. I'm not blaming the mom if she was in the dark about ALL of it, but if she knew any of the details her son told you (and surely the son told his mom while he was still at that daycare, if he told you about it after he left) then why would she leave her son in that environment?

But the main thing now is that the mom and son told you, and you did do the right thing by calling licensing. I just can't get over why she didn't pull him out before now if she knew any of this was happening.
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