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Daycare Center and Family Home Forum>Changing Contract to Incl. Only Working Hours
Mom&Provider 01:36 PM 01-11-2013
When needed, I get that every parent needs (even deserves) to go shopping or get their hair done in peace (you know like we can on weekends! ), but one of my DCF's has pushed what is fair IMO and is making it a habit to go about their lives while I watch their child and they 'get things done'. I feel taken advantage of really, like I'm just here for their convenience and not really being respected.

My hubby says that I am open, so they have every right to do what they want after drop off, but I want to change this way of thinking. DCM/D have come into my home at pick-up many times since they began here last fall saying things like 'I saw you walking the kids to the school earlier, I went home to nap before coming, I'm just so tired', 'sorry I'm late, I wanted to get dinner started at home first' and 'had a great day at the spa...I was almost bored!'. At first I wasn't bothered, but now it's becoming a normal thing and I'm finding that I'm becoming upset with them, especially when they arrive late when I know they have the day off.

My question is, can anyone share with me how they word in their contract that you are only available to watch their child(ren) while they are at work, not during days off etc? Do you find it works or do parents just then lie about days they have off so they still have a day to themselves? I'm thinking its the way this family is and I can't change it...anyone have any advice?
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daycare 01:59 PM 01-11-2013
Originally Posted by Mom&Provider:
When needed, I get that every parent needs (even deserves) to go shopping or get their hair done in peace (you know like we can on weekends! ), but one of my DCF's has pushed what is fair IMO and is making it a habit to go about their lives while I watch their child and they 'get things done'. I feel taken advantage of really, like I'm just here for their convenience and not really being respected.

My hubby says that I am open, so they have every right to do what they want after drop off, but I want to change this way of thinking. DCM/D have come into my home at pick-up many times since they began here last fall saying things like 'I saw you walking the kids to the school earlier, I went home to nap before coming, I'm just so tired', 'sorry I'm late, I wanted to get dinner started at home first' and 'had a great day at the spa...I was almost bored!'. At first I wasn't bothered, but now it's becoming a normal thing and I'm finding that I'm becoming upset with them, especially when they arrive late when I know they have the day off.

My question is, can anyone share with me how they word in their contract that you are only available to watch their child(ren) while they are at work, not during days off etc? Do you find it works or do parents just then lie about days they have off so they still have a day to themselves? I'm thinking its the way this family is and I can't change it...anyone have any advice?
well here is my advice, don't worry about what they are doing with their time while you have their kids.

Charge late fees when they show up late to pick up...Maybe you can raise that fee if you are bothered by it that much.

I look at it like this. They pay me on time, maybe late here and there, no biggie. I charge the late fee and it's not happening all too often that I am bothered by it.

I have a DCM that has massive anxiety. she can only handle so much of her son before she can't take it anymore. It's not her fault. I could not care less what she is doing. BUT if it ever got to the point where she was not paying or picking up on time then it would be a issue for me
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hhdc 02:12 PM 01-11-2013
I agree with daycare and it will make it easier for you to not worry about what they are doing.

It seems to me if they have contracted hours than they can do what they want/need to do. Yes, I get that is can be frustrating to hear about their leisurely day while you are caring for their children but that is part of the job.
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wdmmom 02:13 PM 01-11-2013
Originally Posted by Mom&Provider:
When needed, I get that every parent needs (even deserves) to go shopping or get their hair done in peace (you know like we can on weekends! ), but one of my DCF's has pushed what is fair IMO and is making it a habit to go about their lives while I watch their child and they 'get things done'. I feel taken advantage of really, like I'm just here for their convenience and not really being respected.

My hubby says that I am open, so they have every right to do what they want after drop off, but I want to change this way of thinking. DCM/D have come into my home at pick-up many times since they began here last fall saying things like 'I saw you walking the kids to the school earlier, I went home to nap before coming, I'm just so tired', 'sorry I'm late, I wanted to get dinner started at home first' and 'had a great day at the spa...I was almost bored!'. At first I wasn't bothered, but now it's becoming a normal thing and I'm finding that I'm becoming upset with them, especially when they arrive late when I know they have the day off.

My question is, can anyone share with me how they word in their contract that you are only available to watch their child(ren) while they are at work, not during days off etc? Do you find it works or do parents just then lie about days they have off so they still have a day to themselves? I'm thinking its the way this family is and I can't change it...anyone have any advice?
First off, your dh has ZERO right to put his 2 cents worth in your business. My husband knows better than to interfere.

My daycare families contract care with me and know my rules in advance. They don't have to like them but they do have to follow them. If your husband wants to do daycare, than he can sign families up and have his own policies.

I have it specifically worded in my contract that daycare is permitted during work hours only. I do not offer services for haircuts, grocery shopping, etc. I will, however, provide services for a funeral if advance notice is given.

There IS a difference between daycare and babysitting. Daycare is where a child goes while a parent WORKS or goes to school.

Babysitting is care for when a parent naps, gets their nails done, goes to tan, etc.

You need to find out their work hours and tell them. You work 7-4pm, great, your new designated drop off time is 645am and your pick up time is 415pm. Additional time is going to be charged at a rate of $10 for every 15 minutes or $20 per hour or whatever your preference is.

Failure to comply will result in immediate termination.

What it sounds like to me is they want center options (come and go as you please) for home daycare price. Sorry, it just doesn't work that way.
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daycare 02:20 PM 01-11-2013
Originally Posted by wdmmom:
First off, your dh has ZERO right to put his 2 cents worth in your business. My husband knows better than to interfere.

My daycare families contract care with me and know my rules in advance. They don't have to like them but they do have to follow them. If your husband wants to do daycare, than he can sign families up and have his own policies.

I have it specifically worded in my contract that daycare is permitted during work hours only. I do not offer services for haircuts, grocery shopping, etc. I will, however, provide services for a funeral if advance notice is given.

There IS a difference between daycare and babysitting. Daycare is where a child goes while a parent WORKS or goes to school.

Babysitting is care for when a parent naps, gets their nails done, goes to tan, etc.

You need to find out their work hours and tell them. You work 7-4pm, great, your new designated drop off time is 645am and your pick up time is 415pm. Additional time is going to be charged at a rate of $10 for every 15 minutes or $20 per hour or whatever your preference is.

Failure to comply will result in immediate termination.

What it sounds like to me is they want center options (come and go as you please) for home daycare price. Sorry, it just doesn't work that way.
you can have that rule that you have, but do you really think that the parents are 100% honest with you about always being at work.

I find that they will just being to lie to you if you try to enforce a policy like that.. I guess if you have enough of a wait list, you can term the families that you find out that they lied to you. But you do have to find that out first ...
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wdmmom 02:27 PM 01-11-2013
Originally Posted by daycare:
you can have that rule that you have, but do you really think that the parents are 100% honest with you about always being at work.

I find that they will just being to lie to you if you try to enforce a policy like that.. I guess if you have enough of a wait list, you can term the families that you find out that they lied to you. But you do have to find that out first ...
Yes, I really do think they tell me the truth! I work for families that enjoy their children and want to spend as much time with them as possible.

I've caught 1 family in a lie and they were termed. (DCM took the day off (called work because she wasn't answering her cell and was late picking up. They told me she hadn't been all day.) She told me she was stuck on a call and was going to be 15 minutes late. (Odd when work was only about 7 minutes away) and I found out through FB that she was out with friends at a bar out of town drinking!
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daycare 02:45 PM 01-11-2013
Originally Posted by wdmmom:
Yes, I really do think they tell me the truth! I work for families that enjoy their children and want to spend as much time with them as possible.

I've caught 1 family in a lie and they were termed. (DCM took the day off (called work because she wasn't answering her cell and was late picking up. They told me she hadn't been all day.) She told me she was stuck on a call and was going to be 15 minutes late. (Odd when work was only about 7 minutes away) and I found out through FB that she was out with friends at a bar out of town drinking!
We you say in one post your family want to spend ever min with their kids but then say in another that they are dropping to you and going out for the day?????

Well not sure I understand.
I would have to say that if you have this policy then you are going to create a lot if unnecessary time chasing down your parents to see if they are telling the truth or not. Once you do, you may be teeming a lot of families

But that is what I think.
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daycare 02:46 PM 01-11-2013
Originally Posted by daycare:
We you say in one post your family want to spend ever min with their kids but then say in another that they are dropping to you and going out for the day?????

Well not sure I understand.
I would have to say that if you have this policy then you are going to create a lot if unnecessary time chasing down your parents to see if they are telling the truth or not. Once you do, you may be teeming a lot of families

But that is what I think.
Btw how do you know that the mom was not our at a work related event in another city. When I worked in sales we often celebrated with my boss, clients and co-workers at meetings out of town.
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hgonzalez 02:53 PM 01-11-2013
It's hard to to feel taken advantage of when parents do things like that, though. I completely understand that we get paid for so many hours, but how many times have we worked while we were sick, overwhelmed, etc. while a parent was out 'getting things done'.

It is really frustrating, but unfortunately we are stuck in this position.
I have said things like 'so is pickup time going to be different then?', just to let the parents know I am aware and a little frustrated.

Try not to let it bother you, but I know it is difficult.
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Blackcat31 03:10 PM 01-11-2013
Originally Posted by Mom&Provider:
When needed, I get that every parent needs (even deserves) to go shopping or get their hair done in peace (you know like we can on weekends! ), but one of my DCF's has pushed what is fair IMO and is making it a habit to go about their lives while I watch their child and they 'get things done'. I feel taken advantage of really, like I'm just here for their convenience and not really being respected.

My hubby says that I am open, so they have every right to do what they want after drop off, but I want to change this way of thinking. DCM/D have come into my home at pick-up many times since they began here last fall saying things like 'I saw you walking the kids to the school earlier, I went home to nap before coming, I'm just so tired', 'sorry I'm late, I wanted to get dinner started at home first' and 'had a great day at the spa...I was almost bored!'. At first I wasn't bothered, but now it's becoming a normal thing and I'm finding that I'm becoming upset with them, especially when they arrive late when I know they have the day off.

My question is, can anyone share with me how they word in their contract that you are only available to watch their child(ren) while they are at work, not during days off etc? Do you find it works or do parents just then lie about days they have off so they still have a day to themselves? I'm thinking its the way this family is and I can't change it...anyone have any advice?
First this is a hot button topic for alot of providers because many feel we can't "control" what parents do and many feel that they can. I am not going to argue and I am not going to try and get you to be one way or another.

You feel taken advantage of and that is that. You are asking a specific question and not necessarily for additional reasons why this is not a good idea or why it is...right? I have waivered back and forth about this topic throughout my career and can definitely see both sides.

What I think you should do in your situation is talk with your parents.

It is EXTREMEMLY important for providers and parents to have a trusting and respectful relationship. If you are feeling taken advantage of, then just talk with your parents and let them know that you feel that your services are for parents who are working.

Let them know that when they use you for when they run errands, nap or stand in the neighbor's yard popping the heads of dandelions it makes you feel disrespected and used. Let them know that you prefer that they hire a babysitter to do those things and only use your services for when they need to work.

I understand why some parents do this and whether I agree or disagree, it is YOUR issue to deal with if it bothers you...kwim? So because of that, you might just have to write up a notice telling parents that. I can help you word that letter if you want...just let me know.

Also fwiw, my DH is my sounding board too and because we are married, I feel that his opinion does count and that he has a right to give it since everything daycare effects me, which in turn effects him.

I think men think things are a lot more black and white than we are and since your DH isn't the one feeling disrespected, he isn't really understanding why you are having trouble with this.
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Heidi 03:25 PM 01-11-2013
Originally Posted by Blackcat31:
First this is a hot button topic for alot of providers because many feel we can't "control" what parents do and many feel that they can. I am not going to argue and I am not going to try and get you to be one way or another.

You feel taken advantage of and that is that. You are asking a specific question and not necessarily for additional reasons why this is not a good idea or why it is...right? I have waivered back and forth about this topic throughout my career and can definitely see both sides.

What I think you should do in your situation is talk with your parents.

It is EXTREMEMLY important for providers and parents to have a trusting and respectful relationship. If you are feeling taken advantage of, then just talk with your parents and let them know that you feel that your services are for parents who are working.

Let them know that when they use you for when they run errands, nap or stand in the neighbor's yard popping the heads of dandelions it makes you feel disrespected and used. Let them know that you prefer that they hire a babysitter to do those things and only use your services for when they need to work.

I understand why some parents do this and whether I agree or disagree, it is YOUR issue to deal with if it bothers you...kwim? So because of that, you might just have to write up a notice telling parents that. I can help you word that letter if you want...just let me know.

Also fwiw, my DH is my sounding board too and because we are married, I feel that his opinion does count and that he has a right to give it since everything daycare effects me, which in turn effects him.

I think men think things are a lot more black and white than we are and since your DH isn't the one feeling disrespected, he isn't really understanding why you are having trouble with this.
I agree, once again, with BC. I'm in the camp of I-dont-care-what-they're-doing, but I can definately get irritated when someone brings their children from open to close, or worse yet, is late, while they take off day after day, or worse yet, lie to me. The family I terminated last year had children with HUGE behavioral issues, and mom regularly dropped off the kids in her jeans-something that indicated she was not working that day. Or, she'd tell me afterwards that she did x or y that day.

When my children were little, I needed alone time sometimes, too, but I told my provider, and it wasn't constant.

As for hubby, mine is the same way. If he tells me something bad about his work, I empathize. If I tell HIM something, he usually tries to give me "advice". It irritates me, too, but he's got a lot of good qualities, so oh well. I generally say something like "I wasn't asking for a critique, I was just telling you how I feel because you are supposed to be my FRIEND". lol
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MarinaVanessa 03:36 PM 01-11-2013
I have both "Business Hours" (the hours that I am willing to offer childcare) and "Contracted Hours" (the times that I will care for a particular child).

Here's how I have it worded ....

Handbook:
Daycare Hours
The daycare’s regular business hours are Monday through Friday 7:00 a.m. to 6:00 p.m. however these hours are not necessarily the hours that a client is allotted to bring their child. Unless a client is a drop-in client, hours for care will be discussed and a schedule will be set which includes a fair amount of commuting time and this will become the child’s “scheduled hours”. Care will be provided for children only during their contracted scheduled hours.

Any changes to a child’s full or part-time schedule must be discussed and reassessed and will depend on the ability for the childcare provider to meet the child’s new needs. Each time that changes to a child’s full or part-time schedule are needed a new contract must be signed.


Contract:
1. Business Hours
a. [DAYCARE] normal hours of operation are Monday through Friday from 7:00 a.m. to 6:00 p.m.
b. These hours are available for care of children but are not necessarily the hours that are allotted to the client for child care. The client’s allotted time is listed below.
2. Hours of Care
a. The parties have agreed that care provided for the child will be for:
(choose one option).

[] Full-Time: Full-time care is defined as a minimum of four (4) days a week with a maximum of fifty (50) hours a week and a maximum of ten (10) hours per day.
[] Part-Time: Part-time is defined as three (3) or less days a week, a maximum of 29 hours per week and a maximum of ten (10) hours per day.
b. The parties have agreed to the following schedule of care:
[] Monday Hours __________ [AM/PM] to __________ [AM/PM]
[] Tuesday Hours __________ [AM/PM] to __________ [AM/PM]
[] Wednesday Hours __________ [AM/PM] to __________ [AM/PM]
[] Thursday Hours __________ [AM/PM] to __________ [AM/PM]
[] Friday Hours __________ [AM/PM] to __________ [AM/PM]

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daycare 03:41 PM 01-11-2013
I do it the same exact way that you do it MV

I have a lot of non- working mothers or mothers that work from home, so they are often out doing who knows what.....lol
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melilley 03:42 PM 01-11-2013
Originally Posted by MarinaVanessa:
I have both "Business Hours" (the hours that I am willing to offer childcare) and "Contracted Hours" (the times that I will care for a particular child).

Here's how I have it worded ....

Handbook:
Daycare Hours
The daycare’s regular business hours are Monday through Friday 7:00 a.m. to 6:00 p.m. however these hours are not necessarily the hours that a client is allotted to bring their child. Unless a client is a drop-in client, hours for care will be discussed and a schedule will be set which includes a fair amount of commuting time and this will become the child’s “scheduled hours”. Care will be provided for children only during their contracted scheduled hours.

Any changes to a child’s full or part-time schedule must be discussed and reassessed and will depend on the ability for the childcare provider to meet the child’s new needs. Each time that changes to a child’s full or part-time schedule are needed a new contract must be signed.


Contract:
1. Business Hours
a. [DAYCARE] normal hours of operation are Monday through Friday from 7:00 a.m. to 6:00 p.m.
b. These hours are available for care of children but are not necessarily the hours that are allotted to the client for child care. The client’s allotted time is listed below.
2. Hours of Care
a. The parties have agreed that care provided for the child will be for:
(choose one option).

[] Full-Time: Full-time care is defined as a minimum of four (4) days a week with a maximum of fifty (50) hours a week and a maximum of ten (10) hours per day.
[] Part-Time: Part-time is defined as three (3) or less days a week, a maximum of 29 hours per week and a maximum of ten (10) hours per day.
b. The parties have agreed to the following schedule of care:
[] Monday Hours __________ [AM/PM] to __________ [AM/PM]
[] Tuesday Hours __________ [AM/PM] to __________ [AM/PM]
[] Wednesday Hours __________ [AM/PM] to __________ [AM/PM]
[] Thursday Hours __________ [AM/PM] to __________ [AM/PM]
[] Friday Hours __________ [AM/PM] to __________ [AM/PM]
I like the way you worded this! This way the parent pays for contracted hours even though you are open more than they contract they know the exact times they can pick up and drop off, it's not a free for all. Now this way I wouldn't have a problem with a parent doing what they want as long as they drop off and pick up per contracted hours!
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wdmmom 03:43 PM 01-11-2013
Originally Posted by daycare:
We you say in one post your family want to spend ever min with their kids but then say in another that they are dropping to you and going out for the day?????

Well not sure I understand.
I would have to say that if you have this policy then you are going to create a lot if unnecessary time chasing down your parents to see if they are telling the truth or not. Once you do, you may be teeming a lot of families

But that is what I think.
Where did I say they go out for the day? The families I have now are very nice and very reliable. I have no beef with any of them. A majority of them live farther away and work nearby. I really dont seethem driving to me if theyre not going to work. And, if theyre home sick, they always tell me theyll be home and to contact them if dck shows symptoms. 85% of the time if a parent is sick, the kids stay home with them.

I dont chase families around. I also dont get overly involved. Ive termed ONE family for multiple violations. This happened to be one.

The dcm I termed lied. Lied about being at work, lied about being late (45 minutes beyond closing time and had been at a pub drinking!! She didnt have a sales job and I called work after she didnt answer her cell. They told me she hadnt been in that day.

If families can't be honest with me, I just dont want to work for them. To me its accepting dirty money.
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daycare 03:54 PM 01-11-2013
Originally Posted by wdmmom:
Where did I say they go out for the day? The families I have now are very nice and very reliable. I have no beef with any of them. A majority of them live farther away and work nearby. I really dont seethem driving to me if theyre not going to work. And, if theyre home sick, they always tell me theyll be home and to contact them if dck shows symptoms. 85% of the time if a parent is sick, the kids stay home with them.

I dont chase families around. I also dont get overly involved. Ive termed ONE family for multiple violations. This happened to be one.

The dcm I termed lied. Lied about being at work, lied about being late (45 minutes beyond closing time and had been at a pub drinking!! She didnt have a sales job and I called work after she didnt answer her cell. They told me she hadnt been in that day.

If families can't be honest with me, I just dont want to work for them. To me its accepting dirty money.
not that I want to argure about it....but in your first post you mention this

I wanted to get dinner started at home first' and 'had a great day at the spa...I was almost bored!'. At first I wasn't bothered, but now it's becoming a normal thing and I'm finding that I'm becoming upset with them, especially when they arrive late when I know they have the day off.


then you said.....
Yes, I really do think they tell me the truth! I work for families that enjoy their children and want to spend as much time with them as possible.

and you also said you termed a mom for taking the day off work to go out drinking??


I do have a hard time understanding english so it could be me....Like I said I am just confused to what you mean
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Blackcat31 04:17 PM 01-11-2013
Originally Posted by daycare:
not that I want to argure about it....but in your first post you mention this

I wanted to get dinner started at home first' and 'had a great day at the spa...I was almost bored!'. At first I wasn't bothered, but now it's becoming a normal thing and I'm finding that I'm becoming upset with them, especially when they arrive late when I know they have the day off.
I think you are misunderstanding....those words (above) were what the OP, which is Mom&Provider, said in her first post not wdmmom's post.

I think you might be merging two different posters into one.


Originally Posted by daycare:
then you said.....
Yes, I really do think they tell me the truth! I work for families that enjoy their children and want to spend as much time with them as possible.

and you also said you termed a mom for taking the day off work to go out drinking??
She did say those things, but in response to you.
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daycare 04:19 PM 01-11-2013
now you know why I don't understand half the stuff I read.....lol
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Starburst 04:20 PM 01-11-2013
If it really bothers you that much I would put something like this in the contract(you can reword it if you want):
"Due to the high demand of affordable child care with a flexabile schedule and the importance of family involvement in a child's life, I try to make it a point that children are only in my care when their parents are at work/ in school.Parents are encouraged to tell me if their work/school/ or child care needs schedules change." then add that to your new policy and have them sign and date it.

This part is optional if you want to add it and you can change whatever you want:
"... as a (wife and/or parent) myself I do understand that it is important to have some alone time to have fun or work on your marraige. I may occationally offer date nights or slumber parties outside of regular daycare hours they are not requested only days that I agree to and only if enough sign ups (at least 3-5 people) for a small addintional fee (cheaper than a babysitter rate: like $15 per child/family for 3 or 4 hours); I will/will not except infants/toddler or children under 3. If you pick up your child later than the agreed time you will be subject to an aditional fee of ($5 every 15/30 minutes) doors will close at (9pm, 10pm-whatever you want). If your child/ren spends the night it is $25 per child/family, if you did not pay this before it will be added to your next bill and is subject to late fees. I {do/do not} offer sibling discounts.
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Blackcat31 04:20 PM 01-11-2013
Originally Posted by daycare:
now you know why I don't understand half the stuff I read.....lol
Don't feel bad....it happens to me too and I was born and raised here
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snips&snails 05:31 PM 01-11-2013
I charge for the scheduled days regardless of whether they work or not - if you want them to keep their children with them when they aren't working, are you going to deduct this from their tuition? I do write specific hours in each contract & I would certainly be ticked off if they were late for these reasons!!
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Kim 06:25 PM 01-11-2013
I switched this fall to contracted hours and it's been so much better for me. I also shortened my hours and close at 5 now since I started noticing that my latest pick ups were the parents that were running errands after work. They didn't NEED care past 5. I now have certain hours I am available to provide care but each family has contracted hours within those available hours. This is what I have in my handbook: Care is available Monday through Friday between the hours of 6:30am and 5:00pm. Each child’s days and hours of care are determined with each family to accommodate the hours needed for work and commute times.

I personally don't care what my parents do while their kids are here BUT I think it's unfair to the child to be left in care for 10-11 hours when it's not necessary. And I also notice that my worst behaved kids are those left in care the longest. Their behavior is definitely effected when they aren't getting the attention they need from their parents. I don't care if they don't go to work or if they leave work early to run errands. I make it very clear that parents need to be honest about not being at work for the day. In an emergency I don't want to waste time calling two or three phone numbers to reach them. I've had parents drop off their kids and go play golf. Makes no difference to me as long as they return by their contracted pick up time.
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cheerfuldom 09:08 PM 01-11-2013
I havent had a huge issue with this particular scenario. I actually have the opposite issue where parents rush in to snatch little angel like i am the devil that keeps them away from their child.

anyway, I dont care what they do with the time I provide daycare, as long as I get paid. I offer 10 hours max but there is only on family that takes that and they do work that whole time.
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CozyHome 09:30 PM 01-11-2013
Wow, I don't personally care if my dcparents are at work or at home or whatever. But if I call their cell phone when I need them if their child vomits, etc. they had better answer pronto! I do my dcparents the courtesy of always telling them where we are going every morning, to the park or library or staying in or playing outsid on my property. I expect them to tell me where they will be as well. This is for safety or emergency reasons only. I don't care what the parents are doing.
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Meeko 05:29 AM 01-12-2013
I personally don't give a hoot what the parent is doing after they drop off.

But heaven help anyone who picks up late.
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Mom&Provider 05:42 AM 01-12-2013
Thanks everyone for your responses. I knew it was a hot topic and one we often think about.

I'm definately not the type of provider that cares 100% of the time that parents are at work and not shopping etc. but, my issue was that this family is taking it to new levels and making it a regular thing AND almost rubbing it in my face at pick-up. Also like another person said, it's not that they bring them so they can do whatever, its that they drop them off the second I open and don't pick-up till I close - that's a long day and when DCM isn't around 95% of the time to even get her little one into bed at night due to her job, I'd hope she would show more interest in being in her childs life. Obviously none of my business, but that doesn't mean I have to agree.

Recently what set me off was DCM saying in the morning, 'bye X, Mommy is going to work', only for her to arrive at my place right at closing and say to me during our daily follow-up about her child 'oh, didn't I tell you I was off today?'

I think I will take BC's advice and just talk specifically to this family. I want them to know I am here to take care of their child, but my concern is that I'm turning into a babysitter as someone else mentioned also and not being viewed as a professional or at least I dont feel like I am to them!
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Heidi 06:16 AM 01-12-2013
Originally Posted by Mom&Provider:
Thanks everyone for your responses. I knew it was a hot topic and one we often think about.

I'm definately not the type of provider that cares 100% of the time that parents are at work and not shopping etc. but, my issue was that this family is taking it to new levels and making it a regular thing AND almost rubbing it in my face at pick-up. Also like another person said, it's not that they bring them so they can do whatever, its that they drop them off the second I open and don't pick-up till I close - that's a long day and when DCM isn't around 95% of the time to even get her little one into bed at night due to her job, I'd hope she would show more interest in being in her childs life. Obviously none of my business, but that doesn't mean I have to agree.

Recently what set me off was DCM saying in the morning, 'bye X, Mommy is going to work', only for her to arrive at my place right at closing and say to me during our daily follow-up about her child 'oh, didn't I tell you I was off today?'

I think I will take BC's advice and just talk specifically to this family. I want them to know I am here to take care of their child, but my concern is that I'm turning into a babysitter as someone else mentioned also and not being viewed as a professional or at least I dont feel like I am to them!
Totally agree, especially about the behavior part. That's been my experience, too. With my termed family, most times the mom spent a maybe a half hour in the morning and a little over an hour in the evening with her kids. Oh, except the 20 minutes they were in the car each way, which was TOTAL CHAOS. Screaming, crying, nashing of teeth the whole way, both ways, each day.
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mbullette 07:13 AM 01-12-2013
I honestly would not worry about how they spend their day while you watch their child. You are getting paid so I wouldn't be worried. If they are late then charge a late fee. If its a habit of coming late then charge a higher late fee and they will get the hint. I have a mom who has Monday's off and her child still comes here. She cleans her home, goes shopping and schedules her appointments that day. As long as I am getting paid I dont care what she is doing.
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Hazel 07:59 AM 01-12-2013
For me, my house is open. I am available 7:30am to 5:30pm, Monday thru Friday. I don't give a hoot what the parent is doing... I am doing my job. Now, does that mean I don't get irritated when a kid is dropped off at the crack of dawn and then picked up at the last possible second bc the parents went home to nap? Or start dinner? No. But I keep it to myself.
Do I get annoyed that one DCF and I have agreed that since mom gets stuck at work (works locally and lives far) I would be ok with the extra 15 or so mins once or twice a week, yet when DCD (who is a graduate student taking online classes) needs to pick up bc DCM is working really late, HE also waits till the last possible second? Yes! Bc I feel I give them a break by not charging for the extra 15 or so mins then he could give ME a break by coming a bit early..... But they are a great family! Love them to death! Have been with me for a year and a half with 2 kids and have another on the way that is planning to join our group.
Do I get annoyed that one dad works as a bartender and mostly weekends, brings DCG for social interaction, but drops off when I open (right after he drops older son off at school) yet picks up when I close and not when he goes out to get son from school? And has even been 1 hour late bc he fell asleep and didnt answer phone when I called and called? Yes! But again, awesome family! Sweet kid!
My point is, everyone has their way of doing things. If you feel they are taking advance of you, then you need to change your policies. I think, for me, I would loose business if I worked it that way. Plus, they would probably just lie!
I personally hate to go shopping and have to listen to other peoples kids screaming and crying and often think "good lord! Leave them home!" bc my kids are big now and I have enough of toddlers during the 50 hours I care for them. Does that mean I don't LOVE kids? Heck no! Just that I understand why parents do what they do! Lol
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Hazel 08:05 AM 01-12-2013
Originally Posted by mbullette:
I honestly would not worry about how they spend their day while you watch their child. You are getting paid so I wouldn't be worried. If they are late then charge a late fee. If its a habit of coming late then charge a higher late fee and they will get the hint. I have a mom who has Monday's off and her child still comes here. She cleans her home, goes shopping and schedules her appointments that day. As long as I am getting paid I dont care what she is doing.
I had the same thing. When they signed up with 2 kids, dad was deployed and mom off Fridays. They contracted 5 days bc this gives mom a day to get her stuff done and be able to spend quality time with her kids on the weekend. She comes later in the mornings (later than when she's working) and picks up earlier than normal. Sometimes she gets called into work as well, so it just made sense to reserve those 2 spots bc she could need them at any time. I'm happy to hear about her day when she picks up!
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Willow 12:15 PM 01-13-2013
I am definitely one that cares.

I care because how a parent chooses to parent definitely trickles down to that child's behavior and overall demeanor while they are in my care.

20 some years ago I saw the opinion voiced in the parent handbook my parents got from my little sisters daycare provider. The handbook sat in our vehicle for the longest time lol, and it was the only reading material. Even at that age it made complete sense to me.



If a parent is excessively leaving their child with everyone under the sun and does not care to spend their free time with them guaranteed that's going to affect the child in a very negative way. I always grow to love the kids in my care and would really struggle seeing one being hurt in that way.

I've seen kids with stay at home mom's grow into out of control heathens because mom refused to take the kids anywhere and when she was home she wasn't ever really "present." To the contrary, I nannied for a pair of doctors once who spent an incredibly amount of time away from their three, despite that every single free second they had was spent with their kids. The kids knew they were a priority and it did made a HUGE difference in how they grew as people. I myself was raised for much of my early childhood by a single mother who was working on finishing highschool while working literally day and night. The fact that on her free time everywhere she went she WANTED me with made all the difference in the world. If she felt she had to leave me behind just to function it would have crushed me and my self esteem. I needed that time with her, desperately.


Therefor I make it incredibly clear during interviews which family dynamics I prefer and will accept. I point blank discuss that kids benefit from running errands and whatnot with their parents, they NEED that time to learn how to behave in public, and if there is a personal outting that needs to happen that's fine, but it's not what *I'M* here for. I'm here so parents can earn a living and financially support their families, it's what separates me from a daycare provider and a babysitter. If they need some free time babysitter hours they can ask and I am willing to discuss my availability, but as a licensed provider that's not what I do.

As well as discussing in depth and directly how I feel about this topic I also have a bit in my parent handbook about it.

I don't feel my parents lie to me.

Honesty is a huge part of our working relationship and I wouldn't continue on with a family I didn't trust.


My families have to work, full time, and they love and miss their kids when they have to leave them. Those are the only families I choose to work with and it's got nothing to do with trying to "control" anyone. It's no different than having any other preference for certain types of families.
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providerandmomof4 06:19 PM 01-13-2013
Originally Posted by Kim:
I switched this fall to contracted hours and it's been so much better for me. I also shortened my hours and close at 5 now since I started noticing that my latest pick ups were the parents that were running errands after work. They didn't NEED care past 5. I now have certain hours I am available to provide care but each family has contracted hours within those available hours. This is what I have in my handbook: Care is available Monday through Friday between the hours of 6:30am and 5:00pm. Each child’s days and hours of care are determined with each family to accommodate the hours needed for work and commute times.

I personally don't care what my parents do while their kids are here BUT I think it's unfair to the child to be left in care for 10-11 hours when it's not necessary. And I also notice that my worst behaved kids are those left in care the longest. Their behavior is definitely effected when they aren't getting the attention they need from their parents. I don't care if they don't go to work or if they leave work early to run errands. I make it very clear that parents need to be honest about not being at work for the day. In an emergency I don't want to waste time calling two or three phone numbers to reach them. I've had parents drop off their kids and go play golf. Makes no difference to me as long as they return by their contracted pick up time.
I completely agree with the above provider The children know and act accordingly when they are the first to come and the last to get picked up. I feel bad for them. I have one dcb who says everyday, "I am always here more than anyone! Gheesh!" I know little guy....I wish just once mom or day would take a day with him or even come get him a few hours early. Just once in a while?
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mamac 07:46 AM 01-14-2013
Originally Posted by MarinaVanessa:
Unless a client is a drop-in client, hours for care will be discussed and a schedule will be set which includes a fair amount of commuting time and this will become the child’s “scheduled hours”. Care will be provided for children only during their contracted scheduled hours.]
Hi Everyone. I'm a new provider (as soon as I get some calls!) and I've been reading a LOT on this forum and getting some great ideas to fine tune my contract as well as what not to put up with from parents. Love this site but it's been the cause of many sleepless nights lately!

MarinaVanessa: From what I've seen, many of your contract policies are similar to what mine are. I'm wondering what you define your drop-in care as? I would like to fill a day here or there if I'm available but I also don't want to be taken advantage of, although technically they would pay more per week for drop in care vs. FT care.
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MarinaVanessa 09:36 AM 01-14-2013
Originally Posted by melilley:
I like the way you worded this! This way the parent pays for contracted hours even though you are open more than they contract they know the exact times they can pick up and drop off, it's not a free for all. Now this way I wouldn't have a problem with a parent doing what they want as long as they drop off and pick up per contracted hours!
The only reason that I do it this way is because I want families to know up front that I won't care generally care for a child earlier than 7am or later than 6pm so I have "Business Hours". Then I have the contracted hours so that they know that they can't sent their littles to DC all day from open to close without being charged extra (that's how I discourage all day-ers).

As long as they are paying me for the time that their contracts says I don't really care what they do during the day. They just have to pick up on time and if they drop-off late I want to know in advance so I can plan for the day.
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MarinaVanessa 09:42 AM 01-14-2013
Originally Posted by mamac:
Hi Everyone. I'm a new provider (as soon as I get some calls!) and I've been reading a LOT on this forum and getting some great ideas to fine tune my contract as well as what not to put up with from parents. Love this site but it's been the cause of many sleepless nights lately!

MarinaVanessa: From what I've seen, many of your contract policies are similar to what mine are. I'm wondering what you define your drop-in care as? I would like to fill a day here or there if I'm available but I also don't want to be taken advantage of, although technically they would pay more per week for drop in care vs. FT care.
Send me your email in a PM and I'll email you a copy of my drop-in contract to give you an idea of how I do drop-in.

In a nutshell drop-in clients need to call me to ask and reserve a drop-in appointment in advance and check if I have room. If I do I won't reserve a spot until it's paid in advance. If they don't want to pay yet they don't have to but I can fill it with another client that pays first (happens frequently).

I have a daily rate of $40/day for 10 hours and any time after that is $5 per hour (or part of). I charge for every partial hour. Or they can pay $5 per hour if they don't need a full 10 hours but there's a 4 hour minimum even if they don't need 4 hours of care. A SAHM that needs 2 hours of drop-in care to go to a Dr's appt. would still pay $20. I don't offer a weekly discounted rate, it's part of the downfall of being drop-in.
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Country Kids 09:44 AM 01-14-2013
So what do you guys do with parents that fill it out for the entire day and then use the time for work?

I have some parents that need me from open to sometimes closing. Depending on work loads at work, meetings, commutes and things like that? Do you make them put down their exact work hours and then charge them for late fees if they are late from work (actually working) and not out doing errands etc.?
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melilley 10:23 AM 01-14-2013
Originally Posted by mamac:
Hi Everyone. I'm a new provider (as soon as I get some calls!) and I've been reading a LOT on this forum and getting some great ideas to fine tune my contract as well as what not to put up with from parents. Love this site but it's been the cause of many sleepless nights lately! .


Hi! I too am a new provider, well I will be as soon as my license arrives in the mail! I agree, I have also had many sleepless nights due to this site! Most people on here are very helpful, I have had many questions about my contracts, policies, among other things and just about everything I have asked or needed advice on has been answered and I too have gotten many great ideas! I just love this forum!
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Unregistered 10:58 AM 01-14-2013
I do NOT have open-close hours. When I am contacted to interview and asked what my "hours" are I let them know I base my hours on parent need. I ask them what hours they need care and if it works for me I interview. Each contract specifies hours and that is when their child can attend. It took me a few years to decide this works best for me and keeps my frustration level down in terms of parents wanting care when it's not needed. Occasionally some still have a day off or get off work early and leave their kids the contracted time and that's just fine with me. I just don't want to raise these kids, I want to provide a safe and fun place for them when parents can't be with them.
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MarinaVanessa 01:40 PM 01-14-2013
Originally Posted by Country Kids:
So what do you guys do with parents that fill it out for the entire day and then use the time for work?

I have some parents that need me from open to sometimes closing. Depending on work loads at work, meetings, commutes and things like that? Do you make them put down their exact work hours and then charge them for late fees if they are late from work (actually working) and not out doing errands etc.?
I do it one of two ways, they can either contract me from open to close and pay my weekly fee of $176/wk ($160 regular rate for 50 hours plus the extra 5 hours a week since I am "open" 11 hours a day) and they pay it every week whether they use up all of the time or not but their spot is guaranteed or they pay me the regular rate of $160/wk and arrange with me ahead of time for the extra hour and pay $5 an hour but it may not be guaranteed.

I personally don't mind offering evening and/or weekend child care occasionally so this is something that parents sometimes take advantage of. Sometimes they need it to do "me" things and others it's so catch up on work. I don't really mind what they do with this time as long as it's not a regular occurrence.
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Willow 01:45 PM 01-14-2013
Originally Posted by Unregistered:
I do NOT have open-close hours. When I am contacted to interview and asked what my "hours" are I let them know I base my hours on parent need. I ask them what hours they need care and if it works for me I interview. Each contract specifies hours and that is when their child can attend. It took me a few years to decide this works best for me and keeps my frustration level down in terms of parents wanting care when it's not needed. Occasionally some still have a day off or get off work early and leave their kids the contracted time and that's just fine with me. I just don't want to raise these kids, I want to provide a safe and fun place for them when parents can't be with them.
This EXACTLY!!!

Can't be with them being the key word there - not won't!!!


I have no desire to enable people who had kids they had no intention of ever spending any time with.
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daycare 02:29 PM 01-14-2013
after reading a few post, I understand more of what you are saying.

I guess what it comes down to, is that this one family just does not sound like the right fit. You are looking for "family" people. People that don't want their kid there unless they have to be there.

In this case, it does sound like maybe they just don't see an issue with what they are doing, becuase they are just a different type of family people.


two years ago I was in a situation where I was taking care of two kids from 6am to 7pm. The parents were very wealthy and told me they needed the kids in care that long so they could work. Which I found out later, mom just did no want to deal with them. I terminated them from care when I found that out.

I told her that they only way that she would get good at parenting her child was to START doing it herself. She didn't like that so well, but I didn't care at that point. There were a lot of other things wrong in that whole set-up. I just really could not belive that someone would have not one, but two kids and then not want to have any part in raising them. They only wanted to do the fun stuff or the stuff that she wanted people to see.......................

I would give this family another warning and then let them go if they are not on schedule.
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melilley 03:25 PM 01-14-2013
[quote=daycare;308133]

I guess what it comes down to, is that this one family just does not sound like the right fit. You are looking for "family" people. People that don't want their kid there unless they have to be there.

In this case, it does sound like maybe they just don't see an issue with what they are doing, becuase they are just a different type of family people.


t/QUOTE]

You are so right about the different type of family people. Some parents honestly don't care if other people are raising their children, to them it is normal. I don't know if you ever watch Wife Swap, but there was a rich family on the show once and they had a nanny. Well the nanny did everything with the kids from taking them to the extra curricular activities, to being with them at home etc... all while the parents went out and did what they wanted to do. The woman that swapped with them was appalled and so was I. But the rich family thought it was normal to have the nanny basically raise their kids; they saw nothing wrong with leaving them with the nanny and doing what they wanted to do.
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Tags:contracted hours, contracted hours vs open hours
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