I had my first unannounced inspection, ever, today. I've always had the analyst call a few days in advance to see if I was still in business.

I got my first violations today. I got a class A deficiency for my 2 tomato plants in the back yard. I got a class B because it had been 7 mos since we had a fire drill. The tomato plants were moved while he was here so I didn't get a fine. We have until Friday to have a fire drill.

I was also told that we have to cover the top of the air conditioners so that kids can't drop rocks down to the blades.

I was also told about the 1% milk and juice. So now I have to follow that.

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Wondering what the deal with the tomato plants was?

We have a giant garden, I have never heard about having to do anything licensing wise in regards to it


The only time I've ever heard about covering an A/C is during the winter to protect the unit....does it even operate properly with a cover on it?

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I am a type B (in home) provider in Ohio. All of our visits are unannounced. Are you a center?

A/C I would think a barrier around it to prevent the kidlets from being able to get to it.

Do you have pea gravel?

Tomatoes???

What is up with juice... I never serve any but curious

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What is the deal with the fire drills.

I was told to have them atleast two times a year and it did not matter if they where evenly spaced.

I even asked so I should have them once every 6 or 7 months and my lic rep said a that would work do 2 or so a year just be sure to mark them down some how. Not sure how she would know if we realy had a drill or if I just wrote down that we did.

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Fire Drill monthly here!

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In CA we can only serve 4 oz of 100% juice a day. We can only serve 1% milk, which I hate and have refused to serve so far.

"All homes shall conduct fire and disaster drills at least once every six months, and document the date and time of each drill." "The licensee must conduct a fire drill with the daycare children and proof of the correction must be submitted to the Department by 8/24/2012."

Tomato leaves are poisonous.

Evidently they've had some injuries lately where kids have dropped rocks down into the blades of the ac units and the rocks have shot back out.

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We have to have monthly fire drills and storm drills April-October.

Do you have to have the AC covered if your using it? Isn't that a hazard?

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In TN, we get annual visits from the fire marshall where we show our monthly fire drill card. Also, all licensing visits are unannounced with exception to the re-evaluation paperwork. After the state-mandated assessment with FCCERS-R, your stars are determined. If you get no stars, you will receive at least six unannounced visits, but if you get three stars (highest), you will receive only three unannounced visits annually. On top of that, group child care homes also receive bi-annual visits from the health/environmentalist checking things like the tomato plants you mentioned, however, I have never been counted off for that. In addition to this, we receive four visits a year from the food program checking the milk and juice you mentioned. Many times I feel I spend more time watching the door to see who is coming in rather than watching the kids.

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1. Seriously, they dinked you for having tomato plants. Isn't the new rave have your kids outside playing and doing gardens! I so wish they would make up their minds. 90% of people choose tomatos to plant because they don't take up much room.

2. We only have to serve the 1% milk if we are on the food program. I didn't think you were on it so how can they make you serve it. So you are probably going to be in my boat and have kids not drinking their milk now.

3. Our air unit is on the roof so I don't have to worry about that one.


Sorry you had these violations. It amazes me that the state once us doing things but makes it hard to do it right.

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It's not only food program rules regarding milk. It's also licensing.

I would ask where in the regs it states anything Aboht the ac unit
I just had a surprise inspection and nothing was mentioned about my AC unit and it's where the kids could touch it, but I dont let them to that back half of the yard.

Ca is soooooo grey with their rules. Ugh. Sorry Sharlan. That stinks

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Oh, our liscensing says nothing about our food. Thats what the food program is for.

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Soooo sorry Sharlan. That is so depressing ! I just had my unannounced inspection and my inspector did not look at my food, I find that kind of odd. I don't do a garden but have thought about it, I will be sure to avoid those tomato plants !! I hope you can recover from all this I know it must make your heart sink, we all put our best into our business.

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I fully accept the responsibility for the two deficiencies. I have no one else to blame but myself. I'm really just happy that that was all he found to cite me for. In 28 years, those were the only two deficiencies that I have been cited for.

The AC thing is something they're doing in our area because of injuries that have happened this summer. It's not in the regs. I wasn't given a deficiency for it, just something they're asking to be done.

The milk was just a verbal, hey, did you know about bill AB such and such that states you have to serve 1% milk. I told him that I had 5 gals of 2% and would continue to serve it until it was gone. He said they can't check, but saw when the kids asked for glasses of hot chocolate milk and my granddaughter gave them cold, plain milk. I have no idea why they would ask for hot chocolate when it was over 100* outside, but they did.

I knew tomato plants were poisonous, but I've never given it a thought because I've never had a kid chew on a leaf. I was able to move the plants immediately, but he still gave me the A deficiency. I had to post the site violations notice for 30 days and have my parents all sign a letter that they had been notified.

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I wouldn't cover the A/C unit, that doesn' seem safe...could you build some sort of simple little fence around it so they can't get to it? Use garden poles and chicken wire or something?

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He suggested chicken wire and zip ties. My dh was not impressed with that idea.

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I have mine separated with a "play yard" from Walmart. I ordered a couple extra links to make it big enough. Hope this helps!

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Lowes has a/c "protectors". They don't cover the top though! Mine us tall enough that the kids can't reach over it.

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What are they willing to acept as proof of the fire drill? I have woried for sometime that I can not prove we had a fire dril? I do write them down is the realy enougph. I am in Santa Clara County and like I said they told me one or twice a year.

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I am near you and you are correct. You only have to have them every six months. there is a form that they give you when you started your daycare that is called a fire/disaster drill log. I think you can create your own too, as long as you track the date, time and number of children that were in your care on that day.

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All you have to do is document:
1 - type of drill (fire or earthquake)
2 - date and time
3 - number of children (I write down the names)
4 - evacuation location

You can write it on a calendar or on a log. As long as you have written down that you did it along with all the particulars, that's acceptable. They take your word for it. I hadn't done one in 7 mos, so I was a month behind.

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I just had my inspection earlier this month and also have tomatoe plants. I was not told to remove them i wonder if she even saw them. Im near you sharlan in riverside county. I hate how they are so inconsistant. Sorry to hear how that went. So this was your very first unannounced. Wow crazy. By the way i love the field trips youtake the kids too

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He classified it under poisonous materials (detergents, poisons, cleaning supplies, etc).

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So sorry to hear that Sharlan. Live and leran, huh?!

Don't let it get you down.

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Here ya go, I just created a log for you.

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In all honesty, I'm happy that that's the worst he could come up with.

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Yeah, not bad really! Especially with 0 unnanounced visits in all the years you have been in business!

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I've always had the analyst call to ask if I was still in business. If that's not saying, hey, I'm on my way, I don't know what is.

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That stinks . I hope there is somewhere to specify that it was a tomato plant, not a cleanser left out for the kids to play with. We had our surprise inspection today, too. Must be that time of year.

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That's right...he obvously had to stretch to find something. So you are actually doing very, very well and can be proud of your business.

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They are random here too, which makes sense. I need to keep up a few areas now that I think about it

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For the first time in 26 years, I had an analyst call me to ask if I was still doing daycare. She showed up the next day for an unannounced visit. I was due for a visit in August, but having it come a month early---just 3 days after having my daughter's wedding at our home with 100+ guests was a bit much! It went great, but I was stressed wondering if I'd gotten everything back into place!

That same week I had a mandatory training meeting with my food program. They discussed in detail the 1% milk being used for children 2 years and up. Even said we could add chocolate flavoring to make it taste better?! Seriously, you are concerned with calories and are going to allow this???????

When licensing showed up and stayed during afternoon snack, she told me I could only serve one cup of juice per day. I questioned this, since I had JUST been to the training meeting the night before. She assured me it "WAS THE LAW"! Not wanting to argue the point, I let it go.

That night I emailed my food program rep and asked about this. She adamantly denied that this was NOT a law and that it was merely "a suggestion by a university" She said, "Licensing is NOT able to dictate food guidelines and that is strictly 100% mandated by the USDA & only them! It was almost like there was a power struggle going on between the two agencies. She assured me that as long as I followed the USDA guidelines for the menus I was fine. Once again CA has it's issues and as a provider, I can only shake my head and do the best I can!

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I also find it strange that they want to know about your food & beverages.

I feel for you. I had a couple of citations from the state in the past few weeks. It's really stressful. ((((((((HUGS))))))))))

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Actually, the food program monitor is incorrect. It became law on January 1st:

1596.808. (a) Commencing January 1, 2012, except as provided in
subdivisions (b) and (c), a licensed child day care facility shall comply with
all of the following requirements for beverages served by the day care
provider to children in the provider’s care:
(1) Whenever milk is served, serve only lowfat (1 percent) milk or nonfat
milk to children two years of age or older.
(2) Limit juice to not more than one serving per day of 100-percent juice.
(3) Serve no beverages with added sweeteners, either natural or artificial.
“Beverages with added sweeteners” does not include infant formula or
complete balanced nutritional products designed for children.
(4) Make clean and safe drinking water readily available and accessible
for consumption throughout the day.

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I think this was last August the poster was talking about. I think I actually remember her posting about it.

We are allowed here to add chocolate, strawberry (poweder/syrup) and olvatine flavoring to milk.

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Ah...didn't realize it was in August. That must be why she was only informed of it.

Good info to have now though

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Is this USDA or your states ruling?

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Crystal is correct. I believe it is only a CA law but will check.

I was aware of the law, but decided to play dumb until licensing knocked on my door. Well licensing knocked on my door. Plus, my youngest grandson asked for chocolate milk right in front of the analyst. I was out of chocolate, but he was given a glass of 2% milk in front of the analyst.

I do not like 1% milk so I don't buy it. I did promise my analyst that I would switch when I finished the 5 gals I had in the fridge. So this weekend, I will switch.

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States regulation. I pulled that from the licensing website.

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AB 2084 (BROWNLEY), Chapter 593, Statutes of 2010 Affects: Child Care Centers (CCCs) and FCCHs – No Action Required until January 2012. Subject: Nutritious Beverages in Child Care Facilities
Summary: AB 2084 added Section 1596.808 to the Health and Safety Code related to nutritious beverages and affects all licensed child care facilities. The law will not go into effect until January 1, 2012 and will allow the department to adapt the provisions by bulletin, as specified. The new law requires CCCs and FCCHs to comply with the following beverage provisions:
• Whenever milk is served, serve only lowfat (one percent) milk or nonfat milk to children two years of age or older.
• Limit juice to not more than one serving per day of 100 percent juice.
• Serve no beverages with added sweeteners, either natural or artificial. “Beverages with added sweeteners” does not include infant formula or complete balanced nutritional products designed for children.
• Make clean and safe drinking water readily available and accessible to children throughout the day.
The law provides for the following exceptions to the bill’s requirements regarding beverages served at a licensed child day care facility:
• If a child has a medical necessity documented by a physician that includes the need for “medical food” as defined by Section 109971 of the Health and Safety Code, a licensed child care facility shall be exempt from complying with the beverage requirements to the extent necessary to meet the medical needs of that child.
• This section shall not apply to beverages at a licensed child day care facility that are provided by a parent or legal guardian for his or her child.The CDSS will only determine compliance during a regularly scheduled, authorized inspection, and shall not be required to conduct separate and independent visits. Since this law will not go into effect until January 1, 2012, specific implementation procedures will be published prior to that date.

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As my analyst said the other day, there is a lot of rumor and misinformation out there.

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Do your parents provide food and drink for their children? That would let you off the hook on that one. However, the reg only does not apply IF the parents provide it.

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I decided to check the CCFP regs on Milk and juice. So far, I have found nothing about juice, but did find that the milk requirements have changed and children over two must be served 1% (or lower fat) milk. This is from a the Monitor's handbook:

Offering technical assistance to providers is an important part of a monitor’s job. Providers may need to be reminded that the meal pattern requirements for milk have changed. Whole and reduced-fat (2%) milks may not be served to participants over two years of age because they contain high amounts of saturated fat.
Fat-free and low-fat (1/2%-1%) milk options have the same amount of calcium and important nutrients as whole and reduced-fat milks, but much less fat. Explaining these changes and the reasons behind them, as part of the technical assistant you provide, may help providers remember these important meal pattern requirements.substitutions because of a disability. Food intolerance is when there is a reaction to a food, such as a stomachache. A medical professional might recommend that the food is avoided, but does not order that the child cannot have it. A disability is condition where a medical professional finds that an impairment limits a life activity (such as breathing) to the extent that the food should not be eaten at all by the child, and orders it by addressing the above points.
Parents or guardians may ask for non-dairy milk substitutions without providing a medical statement. For example, if a parent has a child who follows a vegan diet, the parent can submit a written request to the child’s caretaker asking that soy milk be served in lieu of cow’s milk. The written request must identify the medical or other special dietary need that restricts the diet of the child.
As part of your review, make sure appropriate documentation for all substitutions is on file.
If a provider is making substitutions for an enrolled child with a disability or intolerance, make a note of that on your review paperwork. If the provider does not have a proper medical note on file, you will have to disallow those meals that do not meet the meal pattern requirements.

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I provide all food and beverages. I don't want to deal with seperate jugs of milk for each child so I will switch. I knew the law, but was being a butt-head about it.

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I haven't had a chance to read this, but thought it would be good for all FCCP to have. It is the USDA Food Program Monitor's Handbook for FCCH:

http://www.fns.usda.gov/cnd/care/Pub...ring_Homes.pdf

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double post

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Thank you for sharing, Crystal. I don't belong to a food program, nor will I join one. But I will read the manual.

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I just emailed my food monitor rep for the 2nd time regarding this. The mandatory training I attended was just last month and ONLY the 1% milk was discussed. They actually told us we could use flavorings to make the milk more appealing and said nothing about limiting juice.

I have been with this food program for over 20 years and they have always been on top of things and keeping us informed of changes and new policies, so when she told me the California Advocates are merely recommending this, I had no reason to doubt it.

I am anxious to hear what her response will be to all of this!

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We have to do 3 fire drills a year and a tornado drill a year and I just write them in my sign in/out sheets.

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Tell her to check AB2084.

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I had done that this past July and did it again just now. I actually copy and pasted it to her email this time, so she could read it herself. Last month she was so adamant that it wasn't a "law", but clearly the Gov did sign it in 2010, so I'm not sure why she told me that.

My food program is conducting it's mandatory meetings with all of the providers right now and mine was the first one to be held. I wanted to make sure they were giving the providers the correct info, since it contradicted what licensing was saying!

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Why wouldn't your food program know what your state required? I just don't get that. I do think though the state needs to let the food program run the food portion and they do the rest.

Another thing I don't understand is why isn't the food program the same for all 50 states? Its the same agency!

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I'm not really sure what the difference is between a "law" and an "Assembly Bill".

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According to wikipedia a bill is a proposed law under consideration by a legislature.[1] A bill does not become law until it is passed by the legislature and, in most cases, approved by the executive. Once a bill has been enacted into law, it is called an act or a statute.

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But being in the food program is not mandatory e
Where as all state licensing rules are.

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Personally, I think the state should stay out of it. But they didn't ask my opinion. If I want to serve the kids soda 3xs a day (I don't), that should be between me and the parents.

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I believe one of the reasons for the state to do this was because school's were selling soda, juice, candy etc on campus. When they began requiring school's to remove vending machines and discontinue sales of these items, they enacted it for child care as well. The reasoning is the obsesity epidemic amongst children. I for one fully support it. We may not be able to stop parents from giving it in excessive amounts ( I am NOT saying all parents do this) but we can require that child care providers, where children spend a vast majority of their time, to limit it. I have heard of providers giving kool-aid all day long, which I am sure is not the norm, but it stops people like that from giving kids stuff they really don't need, nor should be having.

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I agree! I'm all for healthy food choices, but the state should let the USDA figure out what is okay to serve and stick to their own business! My food program rep is forwarding all of the info I sent her this morning to her state reviewer. She is going to let me know what transpires!

Once again, I think this forum is a great resource to us as providers! It's great being able to communicate and learn from others!

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I hear what you are saying. But the thing is that unless you are on a USDA food program they would have no way to control it.

What is sad about CA is that it is extremely easy to get licensed. AND, not to sound horrible (don't flame me) a lot of the people here in CA are from other countries that don't have a good education. Trust me, I see them every time I go for a cert class or something of this sort. They are asking questions that make me want to fall out of my chair. Ones that you and I would say "REALLY"?? are you REALLY asking that question??

So I do think it is proper for the state to step in and lay down some kind of ground rules. There are people that have a great sense of logic, sadly, there are a some that do not.

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CA is not the only state to adopt some food/drink rules. KS requires 1% or skim milk and basically follows the same regulations as the food program. That's why you might as well be on a food program here because the requirements are the exact same (without the pay or inspections though). The 1% milk didn't start until May, but they've always had food regulations that were similar to the food program.

For the original post from August--I have to do monthly fire drills and tornado drills from April-October. I wish it was only 2 per year.

KS can check too to see if we're serving the correct milk. All the surveyor would have to do is open the fridge. I've never had a surveyor stay for a meal; she justs asks what I served or will be serving.

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I am scare of inspection I am so not prepare for that. But at the same time I do not have any official enrollment right now, so I wonder how the inspection would even work...oh well.

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Okay...So here is the response I received from my food program rep after she contacted her State Reviewer.

The State Reviewer wrote to her and said:

"No, you are not missing a thing and you always do your research.

The USDA and the Assembly Bill are currently at odds. The CACFP regulations currently allow flavored milks but for licensing under the AB, flavored milks are not allowed. There are also some juice restrictions under the AB. As you know, the proposed CACFPmeal pattern will be coming out soon and we expect perhaps some closer alignment between the two but, of course, we don't know for sure. So ,yes, serving flavored milks is noncompliant with licensing requirements.

From this email, it appears that the State reviewer is not even really concerned with making sure the Food Program informs their providers in the training meetings. This is baffling to me!

She agrees there is a conflict between the Federal guidelines and what the State has deemed okay, but she never says anything about letting the providers know about this!

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Why am I not surprised about this? One hand never seems to know what the other one is doing in CA.

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Read up on AB1872.

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I read that earlier & thanks for posting that! I actually copy and pasted that info and sent it to my food program rep in an email.

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If you're a Type B (as am I) why are you having any inpections at all? Are you registered through somewhere?

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lol... I get what you mean, We only drink nonfat milk but if someone told me that I had to serve whole milk or something, I think I would be a butt head too!

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