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Daycare Center and Family Home Forum>Great, just great, face scratch story
lovemykidstoo 05:17 AM 04-10-2018
So yesterday my 2 yr old dcg scratched my dcb 3 yr olds face and a little on his neck. Yup, it was ugly, yes I separated them then for the entire day and now she will be my shadow. . The boys try to take things from her sometimes and she grabs them and squeezes and this is the result. The dcb did not cry at all, everything was fine except for the marks left behind. Unfortunately, this is like the 3rd time this has happened to him by this girl. I texted mom a picture right away and she said she knows things happen and for me not to get upset and that they will talk to him about sharing too etc. Then last night she texted me about a couple of non-daycare stuff. Everything was fine. . This morning she calls me and says he's not coming today that when she said they were going to my house he got really upset and she just couldn't bring him today. She wasn't going to "force" him to come, so grandma is coming today. She also says that he has a scratch by his eye and his eye is a little swollen so he may have to go to the dr. I didn't see any by his eye. I'll attach a picture. She said that she told him that he has to go back to my house tomorrow. He's a 4 day a weeker and I love this family and him. Any ideas on what I can do? I've told her that I'm going to keep them separate and make her go where I go for awhile, but man if he does come back and it happens again, they'll be done for sure. What do you guys think? I pray they come back. Any ideas on what I should do at this point?
Attached: carterscratch4918.jpg (59.3 KB) 
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MomBoss 05:52 AM 04-10-2018
I had this same problem. This little girls nails were always long and when she scratched, it looked horrible. The victims mom would get really upset and all i could really do is tell her i would talk to the childs parents and that she scratches because he takes her toy away. I would tell the scratchers parents that they must keep her nails cut or she would have to wear gloves.
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lovemykidstoo 06:29 AM 04-10-2018
Originally Posted by MomBoss:
I had this same problem. This little girls nails were always long and when she scratched, it looked horrible. The victims mom would get really upset and all i could really do is tell her i would talk to the childs parents and that she scratches because he takes her toy away. I would tell the scratchers parents that they must keep her nails cut or she would have to wear gloves.
I'm really worried that they're going to pull him. She said hahaha no way! I would keep you forever if I could. So I'm hoping it was just a bad morning and he'll be back tomorrow. She is wearing mittens right now lol I put them on yesterday after it happened and have been watching her like a hawk! So how did your situation turn out? Did they keep the nails cut short? Did she still try to scratch?
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MomBoss 06:36 AM 04-10-2018
Originally Posted by lovemykidstoo:
I'm really worried that they're going to pull him. She said hahaha no way! I would keep you forever if I could. So I'm hoping it was just a bad morning and he'll be back tomorrow. She is wearing mittens right now lol I put them on yesterday after it happened and have been watching her like a hawk! So how did your situation turn out? Did they keep the nails cut short? Did she still try to scratch?
They didnt always keep them cut and every time she scratched i would make her parents feel bad for it by telling them that the mom of dcb was really upset. It annoyed me that they knew she was scratching but didnt make sure her nails were cut before daycare. Eventually as she got older, she didnt scratch anymore but i ended up terming the dcb victim because mom was just too much to handle for other things. She made a big deal about everything and i felt she would be a liability some day.
Tell this childs parents they need to make sure their nails are cut before daycare because they have been injuring other children and you cant have that.
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Blackcat31 06:53 AM 04-10-2018
Originally Posted by lovemykidstoo:
I'm really worried that they're going to pull him. She said hahaha no way! I would keep you forever if I could. So I'm hoping it was just a bad morning and he'll be back tomorrow. She is wearing mittens right now lol I put them on yesterday after it happened and have been watching her like a hawk! So how did your situation turn out? Did they keep the nails cut short? Did she still try to scratch?
Did you talk to the DCG's parents?
Were her nails too long? Did the parents clip them?

I'm curious about what the aggressors parents said/did/reacted to this?
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lovemykidstoo 07:50 AM 04-10-2018
Originally Posted by Blackcat31:
Did you talk to the DCG's parents?
Were her nails too long? Did the parents clip them?

I'm curious about what the aggressors parents said/did/reacted to this?
I texted her parents right away too and sent them a pic. They were both very upset about it and said that sometimes she gets upset at home with them and like grabs them with her hand. Kinda like a palm pinch if that makes sense, but she's never sunk her nails in, but that they would trim her nails and put her in time out if she grabs them at home like that.
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Blackcat31 08:02 AM 04-10-2018
Originally Posted by lovemykidstoo:
I texted her parents right away too and sent them a pic. They were both very upset about it and said that sometimes she gets upset at home with them and like grabs them with her hand. Kinda like a palm pinch if that makes sense, but she's never sunk her nails in, but that they would trim her nails and put her in time out if she grabs them at home like that.
This is the 3rd time though.....I'm surprised the parents aren't all over it and making sure her nails are trimmed super short. Sending her to time out isn't a solution for her. It's a punishment and most kids don't learn via punishment.

She needs to be taught a more appropriate way of asking for toys or communicating her needs. That is what I was wonder in regards to her parents.

How does she ask for things at home? Is she simply given what she wants, when she wants it?

I know she is only 2 but I just couldn't accept a response like that from a parent... time out is okay for older kids but I find it completely useless when the child isn't taught an alternative to the unwanted behaviors.

Time out should be a punishment for when kids KNOW better but are still making bad choices.
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lovemykidstoo 08:14 AM 04-10-2018
Originally Posted by Blackcat31:
This is the 3rd time though.....I'm surprised the parents aren't all over it and making sure her nails are trimmed super short. Sending her to time out isn't a solution for her. It's a punishment and most kids don't learn via punishment.

She needs to be taught a more appropriate way of asking for toys or communicating her needs. That is what I was wonder in regards to her parents.

How does she ask for things at home? Is she simply given what she wants, when she wants it?

I know she is only 2 but I just couldn't accept a response like that from a parent... time out is okay for older kids but I find it completely useless when the child isn't taught an alternative to the unwanted behaviors.

Time out should be a punishment for when kids KNOW better but are still making bad choices.
He did say that they would talk to her and when she did that to them at home address it verbally to her, but did add about timeout. I am not a fan of timeout personally.

these kids I have right now are constantly just walking up and grabbing things from other kids. After he was scratched yesterday, he was hitting her in the head with a stuffed animal. I'm like what the hell! Did you not learn the first time? It's like the person that is 2nd to react gets the ax lol. He probably was taking something from her and she nailed him. As much as I try, I cannot see every little thing that happens.
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Blackcat31 08:36 AM 04-10-2018
Originally Posted by lovemykidstoo:
He did say that they would talk to her and when she did that to them at home address it verbally to her, but did add about timeout. I am not a fan of timeout personally.

these kids I have right now are constantly just walking up and grabbing things from other kids. After he was scratched yesterday, he was hitting her in the head with a stuffed animal. I'm like what the hell! Did you not learn the first time? It's like the person that is 2nd to react gets the ax lol. He probably was taking something from her and she nailed him. As much as I try, I cannot see every little thing that happens.
Totally understand that....these kids now days are hard.

It just bothers me that parents usually reply with some type of bottled or generic excuse for the behavior but rarely do any of them take a premptive approach or an active response other than "They don't act that way at home" or "We'll keep an eye out and put them in time out if we see anything"......all of which translates to "sounds like it's YOUR problem not mine" and that bothers me because something as simple as this situation can create massive issue with the provider....

For example, any time a child is injured in care here and they see a Dr, I have to submit a written report to licensing and what happens afterwards can sometimes be a big deal all the while the family has just gone along their merry way having NO clue the impact physical aggression situations an cause for the child care provider.

*sigh*....we (as providers) just can't win sometimes.
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lovemykidstoo 12:28 PM 04-10-2018
Originally Posted by Blackcat31:
Totally understand that....these kids now days are hard.

It just bothers me that parents usually reply with some type of bottled or generic excuse for the behavior but rarely do any of them take a premptive approach or an active response other than "They don't act that way at home" or "We'll keep an eye out and put them in time out if we see anything"......all of which translates to "sounds like it's YOUR problem not mine" and that bothers me because something as simple as this situation can create massive issue with the provider....

For example, any time a child is injured in care here and they see a Dr, I have to submit a written report to licensing and what happens afterwards can sometimes be a big deal all the while the family has just gone along their merry way having NO clue the impact physical aggression situations an cause for the child care provider.

*sigh*....we (as providers) just can't win sometimes.
I just received a text from the dcg's mom that did the scratching and she feels terrible and wants to know what she can do. She wants to know if she shoudl call the other mother. She said this kind of behavior will be watched for at home and halted. So I am glad that she seems to be taking it seriously. I texted the mom of the "victim" this morning about 11 and told her again that I was sorry and what steps I was going to take to "try" to prevent this again and she has not texted me back yet. Last night she was fine and like I said was texting about non-related things. So now that junior had a fit about coming here this morning the world has changed? I told her he didn't even cry when it happened. I am beyond irritated and worried about this.
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rosieteddy 04:33 PM 04-10-2018
When my group started getting more physical I changed up our day.I gave less free time.I planned table activities on arrival .We took a longer walk 3 times a day.Once the child turned 2 they held onto the stroller.It passed after a couple of months .It makes us as providers feel bad when children lash out.Good luck.
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lovemykidstoo 07:28 PM 04-10-2018
Originally Posted by rosieteddy:
When my group started getting more physical I changed up our day.I gave less free time.I planned table activities on arrival .We took a longer walk 3 times a day.Once the child turned 2 they held onto the stroller.It passed after a couple of months .It makes us as providers feel bad when children lash out.Good luck.
That's a great idea. I'm going to be doing more coloring at the table, sensory bins etc. It's still snowing here in Michigan, so outside has been limited. Its supposed to be in the 50's tomorrow, so we can get outside too. I think that has alot to do with it too.
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lovemykidstoo 07:31 PM 04-10-2018
I finally after almost 8 hours received a text back from the mother of the "victim" saying that she hopes I don't think she's a bit** but she is just frustrated that it always seems to be the 1 child that is the one doing all the damage. I totally understand her frustration, I do, but I do think she's making it more than it needs to be. I mean, they're 2 and 3 years old. I told her how I would try to be more diligent and she said she understands I cannot stop every thing 100%, that's impossible. She's not really upset with me, but rather the other child. God help me if this happens again, I will never see them again. Nothing like walking on eggshells.
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momofboys 07:43 PM 04-10-2018
Why won't you term the scratcher? Three times is two times too many! I do understand that she is two but I also wouldn't want my child in an atmosphere where he/she was being scratched by the same person.
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lovemykidstoo 07:48 PM 04-10-2018
Originally Posted by momofboys:
Why won't you term the scratcher? Three times is two times too many! I do understand that she is two but I also wouldn't want my child in an atmosphere where he/she was being scratched by the same person.
Not that I want to stick up for a scratcher, but he does have a tendency to egg her on. He has pushed her down, hit her in the head with a stuffed animal etc. The lasts time she did that, she was playing with something and he went up and started to yank her toy from her. She grabbed him and pinched/scratched. That's been almost 10 months ago since the last time. If I term her, I'd have to term him too. Just because it doesn't leave a mark, doesn't make his behavior any better.
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Denali 08:03 PM 04-10-2018
Originally Posted by lovemykidstoo:
Not that I want to stick up for a scratcher, but he does have a tendency to egg her on. He has pushed her down, hit her in the head with a stuffed animal etc. The lasts time she did that, she was playing with something and he went up and started to yank her toy from her. She grabbed him and pinched/scratched. That's been almost 10 months ago since the last time. If I term her, I'd have to term him too. Just because it doesn't leave a mark, doesn't make his behavior any better.
Sounds like you need to have the boy be your shadow and not the girl. 👍 both children are not free from guilt.
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Play Care 03:10 AM 04-11-2018
When I have a younger group, our free play time is very limited. It's a pain because it means I have to remember to put kids "up" whenever I can't be right with them. But this past year when all my kids have been 3 and under, we haven't really had any physical issues (knocks on wood ) I keep special table toys that I can rotate in and out just for this.

Honestly at this point (third time) I'd be less concerned about laying blame and more on top of getting a solid plan together on my end to end it.
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lovemykidstoo 04:21 AM 04-11-2018
Originally Posted by Denali:
Sounds like you need to have the boy be your shadow and not the girl. 👍 both children are not free from guilt.
Exactly, they have a love/hate relationship.
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lovemykidstoo 04:22 AM 04-11-2018
Originally Posted by Play Care:
When I have a younger group, our free play time is very limited. It's a pain because it means I have to remember to put kids "up" whenever I can't be right with them. But this past year when all my kids have been 3 and under, we haven't really had any physical issues (knocks on wood ) I keep special table toys that I can rotate in and out just for this.

Honestly at this point (third time) I'd be less concerned about laying blame and more on top of getting a solid plan together on my end to end it.
I'm definitely going to implement more structured activities. Coloring at the table, sensory tables at the table Both seated activities away from each other. Outside time is going to increase where they don't really play with each other, they all just run nuts. etc

Mittens on her in the house for awhile hahahaha
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Rockgirl 06:21 AM 04-11-2018
Ugh, I know it’s frustrating when things keep happening.

I’d definitely insist that the scratcher’s nails are cut short, and inspect them at drop off. Also the shadowing.
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Blackcat31 06:43 AM 04-11-2018
....this is all said with a kind heart and not meant to make you feel bad at all but....



Originally Posted by lovemykidstoo:
I finally after almost 8 hours received a text back from the mother of the "victim" saying that she hopes I don't think she's a bit** but she is just frustrated that it always seems to be the 1 child that is the one doing all the damage. I totally understand her frustration, I do, but I do think she's making it more than it needs to be. I mean, they're 2 and 3 years old. I told her how I would try to be more diligent and she said she understands I cannot stop every thing 100%, that's impossible. She's not really upset with me, but rather the other child. God help me if this happens again, I will never see them again. Nothing like walking on eggshells.
I 1000% disagree.

She has every right to be upset and if I were her, I'd be super upset and to be totally honest I'd probably pull my kid from care. immediately.

Once is one thing.
Twice is another.
Three times IS a supervision issue.

Originally Posted by lovemykidstoo:
Not that I want to stick up for a scratcher, but he does have a tendency to egg her on. He has pushed her down, hit her in the head with a stuffed animal etc. The lasts time she did that, she was playing with something and he went up and started to yank her toy from her. She grabbed him and pinched/scratched. That's been almost 10 months ago since the last time. If I term her, I'd have to term him too. Just because it doesn't leave a mark, doesn't make his behavior any better.
The bolded above is EXACTLY why.

You are placing blame on a 3 yr old.

You are justifying a child's aggressive actions as if the other child deserves it. I don't understand that.

ANYTHING that happens on your watch is YOUR responsibility and I am not saying you aren't supervising them but I would have made a point of OVER supervising the first time this happened...the second time it happened I would have eliminated the opportunity for EITHER of the kids to have access to each other. all day. every day.

It's really the only action you can take if you are unwilling to term.

I also disagree that you would have to term them both.
The one that scratches should be terminated. Physical aggression should always be viewed as more dangerous and more of a liability than antagonizing behaviors that somewhat appropriate for that age group.

Physical aggression = NOT developmentally appropriate
Antagonizing behaviors = unwanted behavior but still developmentally appropriate.

Like I said, I am not saying any of this to be mean or hurtful but this is whole situation screams liability and as I read along with what is happening daily, it's like one of those scary movies we watched when we were younger.... I'm reading your posts and whispering to myself "Noooo, don't go down into the basement!"


Please reevaluate this situation and try to look at it from the outside. If you are going to pacify any family, it should be the victims....they're the ones that could create issues for you if they're child is injured again.

I just don't want this to end badly for you.
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lovemykidstoo 07:18 AM 04-11-2018
Originally Posted by Blackcat31:
....this is all said with a kind heart and not meant to make you feel bad at all but....





I 1000% disagree.

She has every right to be upset and if I were her, I'd be super upset and to be totally honest I'd probably pull my kid from care. immediately.

Once is one thing.
Twice is another.
Three times IS a supervision issue.



The bolded above is EXACTLY why.

You are placing blame on a 3 yr old.

You are justifying a child's aggressive actions as if the other child deserves it. I don't understand that.

ANYTHING that happens on your watch is YOUR responsibility and I am not saying you aren't supervising them but I would have made a point of OVER supervising the first time this happened...the second time it happened I would have eliminated the opportunity for EITHER of the kids to have access to each other. all day. every day.

It's really the only action you can take if you are unwilling to term.

I also disagree that you would have to term them both.
The one that scratches should be terminated. Physical aggression should always be viewed as more dangerous and more of a liability than antagonizing behaviors that somewhat appropriate for that age group.

Physical aggression = NOT developmentally appropriate
Antagonizing behaviors = unwanted behavior but still developmentally appropriate.

Like I said, I am not saying any of this to be mean or hurtful but this is whole situation screams liability and as I read along with what is happening daily, it's like one of those scary movies we watched when we were younger.... I'm reading your posts and whispering to myself "Noooo, don't go down into the basement!"


Please reevaluate this situation and try to look at it from the outside. If you are going to pacify any family, it should be the victims....they're the ones that could create issues for you if they're child is injured again.

I just don't want this to end badly for you.
I have said that I absolutely understand her being upset. Of course I do. This has been an issue for the past year and a half. So yup, when dcg was 1 she did it, then again sometime else and then again this week. It's been a big time span. She has not done it to anyone else, which leads me to believe there is a definite personality conflict. I'm really sorry though to say I am not supervising. I can be sitting on the floor right smack next to someone and looking at another child to my left when to my right it happens. If there is a way to stop something like that then I need those super powers. . Its' not as if they were wrestling and I didn't stop it. It was an extremely quick swipe. How would I keep them from having access from each other all day other than what I'm doing by having one on one side of the room and one on the other.

I wouldn't have been surprised if she would have pulled. The part that pissed me off was when I was trying to communicate with her and she ignored me for 8 hours. That part I thought was rude. When she finally did text me back she explained that she was not upset at me at all and was happy with how I watch the kids and knows I can't stop everything 100%. I thought it was a bit much that she said she was thinking of taking him to the dr for a scratch. That is the part that I thought was overreacting. Not to mention, he was totally fine when it happened. Did not wimper, cry, act scared at all. It was only after he went home and the next morning that she said he threw a fit to get in the car and he's done that many many times because he doesn't want to get out of bed, so who knows if it was even related. I am not in any way excusing her (dcg) behavior, I'm just saying that he is an aggressor too. He has hit her in the head with toys, pushed her down etc. Maybe my phrasing on that wasn't clear. I'm saying if someone comes up an hits you in the head, you just may retaliate. Should you? Heck no, but she is 2 years old. So they are playing separately right now and will be for awhile. Shoot I had mittens on her for most of the day yesterday and she actually liked them lol. They BOTH need to keep their hands off each other and we're working on that, trust me.
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mommyneedsadayoff 07:41 AM 04-11-2018
Originally Posted by lovemykidstoo:
Not that I want to stick up for a scratcher, but he does have a tendency to egg her on. He has pushed her down, hit her in the head with a stuffed animal etc. The lasts time she did that, she was playing with something and he went up and started to yank her toy from her. She grabbed him and pinched/scratched. That's been almost 10 months ago since the last time. If I term her, I'd have to term him too. Just because it doesn't leave a mark, doesn't make his behavior any better.
In daycare, it is the behaviors that leave marks that are the WORST for your business...biting being number one. Parents do not want to see marks on their kid and after 3 times, I am surprised mom hasnt pulled yet. I would give her a detailed plan of how you are going to handle this going forward.

First thing for me would be that the 3 year old needs to be shadowed and redirected on how we play with friends. He has to learn about giving people space and he is a role model for younger kids, so when he uses aggression to get what he wants, the younger kids will learn aggression (as well as means of defense, like scratching) in return. I know that group size can be a factor (my max was 5), but when I had children who needed more direct guidance, i would spend a large majority of time hovering, redirecting, being that annoying gnat that would stop them before a behavior occurred, foiling their plans to steal a toy. But, when you spend the time, it pays off. They learn respect for each other and EARN the right for more free play. I allow them much more independence as they figure it all out. You dont want your toddlers learning social skills from each other or there will be mass chaos, so you have to be the model for the older kids, who then model it for the younger ones. As for the 2 year old, she would be separate from the victim and shadowed 100%. She has learned a skill that needs to be unlearned, which means you have to be there to intervene and guide in ALL her interactions with her peers. It is a lot of work and supervision in the short term, but will hopefully pay off for the longterm. And if it's too much right now, I would consider terming.
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