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Daycare Center and Family Home Forum>Sleeping In Swings?
playground1 02:23 AM 06-01-2014
I noticed that many of you are commenting that your dck's are sleeping at in a swing (at home). Is this a thing? I've never even heard of anyone doing this on a regular basis. Isn't that terrible for their backs?
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saved4always 05:02 AM 06-01-2014
From my understanding, it is very unsafe for a baby to sleep in a swing as it puts them in a position where they can suffocate. The same for sleeping in infant seats.
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Play Care 05:27 AM 06-01-2014
I gather that for infants the swing motion is very soothing. Parents will say that it's the only way baby will sleep.

Babies have died from sleeping in swings, car seats and other devices (some labeled for sleep ) A couple of issues are that the devices keep babies heads upright, since baby is top heavy his head slumps down, cutting off air to his lungs. Sometimes baby isn't strapped in and gets tangled in the belt, and is strangled. Or falls out of the device and become trapped by the head, strangling that way.

Unfortunately for many providers in the US, we have to take those younger, untrained infants because of our shameful mat leave. So we often wind up with a screaming infant because we can't nap them like that.
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Laurel 07:30 AM 06-01-2014
Originally Posted by Play Care:
I gather that for infants the swing motion is very soothing. Parents will say that it's the only way baby will sleep.

Babies have died from sleeping in swings, car seats and other devices (some labeled for sleep ) A couple of issues are that the devices keep babies heads upright, since baby is top heavy his head slumps down, cutting off air to his lungs. Sometimes baby isn't strapped in and gets tangled in the belt, and is strangled. Or falls out of the device and become trapped by the head, strangling that way.

Unfortunately for many providers in the US, we have to take those younger, untrained infants because of our shameful mat leave. So we often wind up with a screaming infant because we can't nap them like that.
My daughter has done it with my grandson as he was a colic baby and that was the only way he would sleep. But, the back of the seat adjusted so it could be laid not perfectly flat but almost so. He couldn't lift his head so it seemed okay to me. The seat backs do adjust. At least hers did to different positions.

Laurel
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MarinaVanessa 07:39 AM 06-01-2014
Not just in swings. Infants are also sleeping in car seats, Rock n Plays, and other similar devices. I was at a wedding yesterday and talking to friends of mine. Mom is a nurse and they were telling me how they put their baby to sleep in the car seat otherwise they put him on his tummy to sleep. He's 3 weeks old.

I bit my tongue but I must have showed some shock or something because they quickly put in there that at night they put him on his back. She's a nurse for crying out loud. I don't bother telling people anything anymore about safe sleep practices. Many times it is not well received.
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Unregistered 07:50 AM 06-01-2014
I still have parents whose pediatricians tell them to put the baby to sleep in a car seat on top of the dryer. Or in a swing. Or on their side. Or propped up.

Whose advice do YOU think a parent will listen to? Their pediatrician or their daycare person?
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cara041083 07:55 AM 06-01-2014
I don't allow my baby to sleep in a car seat or swing due to all the reasons listed avive. I did use the rock and play as a bassinet for 3 of my kids and then moved them to a crib at age 3 months. My pets doctor re came need it due to really bad acid reflex. But I don't know if I would do it again now that I know what I know.
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Blackcat31 08:03 AM 06-01-2014
Originally Posted by Unregistered:
I still have parents whose pediatricians tell them to put the baby to sleep in a car seat on top of the dryer. Or in a swing. Or on their side. Or propped up.

Whose advice do YOU think a parent will listen to? Their pediatrician or their daycare person?
Parents are free to listen to their pediatrician.

The results however, mean THEY take the risk AND they will have a hard time finding a childcare provider willing to risk her livelihood and sanity dealing with a baby trained to sleep in a manner she cannot LEGALLY allow.

So...who SHOULD they listen to? The person ACTUALLY caring for their child or their pediatrician?
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nannyde 08:05 AM 06-01-2014
Yes it is very common. It will be until we start prosecuting parents for putting their child in danger.

I have had countless parents who claim they did not know it was unsafe but after being fully educated on safe sleep they still continued to put their baby in danger.

In this day and age there is no excuse for parents not to educate themselves about safe sleep. I've had parents discuss attachment parenting so in depth to the point where they feelthey are highly knowledgeable about crying and cortisol research and then act like they don't have a clue about safe sleep.

Even after extensive information and an anecdotal story of one of my family's losing a child to positional asphyxia they persist with swing sleep and unsafe blanket, seat and co sleep sleep.

When babies die at home under parent care due to unsafe sleep it is not being prosecuted. That needs to start happening across the country.
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cara041083 08:09 AM 06-01-2014
Wow I really miss typed my post due to being on my phone lol
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Leanna 08:27 AM 06-01-2014
Originally Posted by nannyde:
Yes it is very common. It will be until we start prosecuting parents for putting their child in danger.

I have had countless parents who claim they did not know it was unsafe but after being fully educated on safe sleep they still continued to put their baby in danger.

In this day and age there is no excuse for parents not to educate themselves about safe sleep. I've had parents discuss attachment parenting so in depth to the point where they feelthey are highly knowledgeable about crying and cortisol research and then act like they don't have a clue about safe sleep.

Even after extensive information and an anecdotal story of one of my family's losing a child to positional asphyxia they persist with swing sleep and unsafe blanket, seat and co sleep sleep.

When babies die at home under parent care due to unsafe sleep it is not being prosecuted. That needs to start happening across the country.
Idk, Nan. Putting babies on their backs to sleep has become a mostly understood practice - that is people know they SHOULD be doing this. But do they necessarily know that they shouldn't have blankets, pillows, positioners, bumpers, and stuffies in the crib? No, I don't feel they do. I still look through fliers and ads and see completely decked out cribs being shown. I just read in Parents magazine that they will now make a commitment to only showing pics of cribs that show safe sleep practices. This hasn't become a completely understood topic yet.

Also, co-sleeping is WIDELY practiced in so many other cultures. How can we respectively communicate to all families in our country that co-sleeping isn't safe here?

As far as swing, car seat, stroller, etc. sleeping. I definitely do not feel as though it is understood that infants should not sleep in these. I was too embarrassed to post under a registered name, but when I first found this forum a few years ago, I made a post about how even with my Bachelor's degree in ECE and my countless hours of professional development and trainings on safe sleep, I NEVER HEARD THIS. So imagine now a young couple having their first child...I can bet that even if they learn "back to sleep" they don't necessarily learn about positional asphyxia.

I understand what you are saying about how parents should educate themselves but if they don't even know (or think they do because the hospital told them about the tummy sleeping part) then how do they know to even look further?

I am not excusing purposefully neglectful behavior, but I just think we need to be doing a much better job with the education piece of this.
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SignMeUp 08:28 AM 06-01-2014
Originally Posted by Blackcat31:

So...who SHOULD they listen to? The person ACTUALLY caring for their child or their pediatrician?
Agreed. It's not what happens though. Personally, I think that pediatricians need to be re-trained on infant sleep environments
You know, as a condition of their license
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Blackcat31 08:34 AM 06-01-2014
Originally Posted by SignMeUp:
Agreed. It's not what happens though. Personally, I think that pediatricians need to be re-trained on infant sleep environments
You know, as a condition of their license
It's just like pediatricians that say a kid should be allowed to be back in care after an illness since they aren't contagious anymore but they are still whiney, clingy and crying most of the day.

Thanks Dr...because HE is0'nt the one caring for that child so...

The child may NOT be contagious but that doesn't mean the child should be back in care.
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nannyde 09:37 AM 06-01-2014
Originally Posted by Leanna:
Idk, Nan. Putting babies on their backs to sleep has become a mostly understood practice - that is people know they SHOULD be doing this. But do they necessarily know that they shouldn't have blankets, pillows, positioners, bumpers, and stuffies in the crib? No, I don't feel they do. I still look through fliers and ads and see completely decked out cribs being shown. I just read in Parents magazine that they will now make a commitment to only showing pics of cribs that show safe sleep practices. This hasn't become a completely understood topic yet.

Also, co-sleeping is WIDELY practiced in so many other cultures. How can we respectively communicate to all families in our country that co-sleeping isn't safe here?

As far as swing, car seat, stroller, etc. sleeping. I definitely do not feel as though it is understood that infants should not sleep in these. I was too embarrassed to post under a registered name, but when I first found this forum a few years ago, I made a post about how even with my Bachelor's degree in ECE and my countless hours of professional development and trainings on safe sleep, I NEVER HEARD THIS. So imagine now a young couple having their first child...I can bet that even if they learn "back to sleep" they don't necessarily learn about positional asphyxia.

I understand what you are saying about how parents should educate themselves but if they don't even know (or think they do because the hospital told them about the tummy sleeping part) then how do they know to even look further?

I am not excusing purposefully neglectful behavior, but I just think we need to be doing a much better job with the education piece of this.
You make good points but my experience is that once they are fully educated and have time to research the information as they have researched attachment parenting, breastfeeding, etc. They still do the wrong thing.

I had a family who had a baby girl. The baby was breastfed and was on a binky constantly. I discussed safe sleep and the Iowa regs three times at the interview. It was a couple of weeks before the kid started.

It didn't take long for me to figure out this baby was sleeping upright in motion the majority of the time. I trained them again and again told them I could not replicate.

I let them know the baby only slept up and in motion. I also let them know that once up and in motion the baby fell asleep IMMEDIATELY. I was required to lay the baby down once she had fallen asleep. Once laid down on a flat surface without motion the baby woke up immediately and started crying. These cycles would get as short as a minute from the point I provided up and motion to the falling asleep to lay back down. I physically could not keep up the cycle.

I knew they were offering non stop motion and up sleep. I was right.

We came up to a holiday break where they would be gone for six days. I know six days of sleep laying down and flat with no motion for six days would result in a baby adjusting and having more than a few minutes of sleep at a time. If they were doing it I could tell.

They came back and the baby was no further along than.day one. They spent the six days when they didn't have to work and held and.rocked her and let her swing sleep the whole time. They had no excuse whatsoever for continuing it except they were willing to put her life at risk so she didn't cry.

I trained them. I provided the research. I copied off the.Iowa code. I offered them the phone number of my client who lost her firstborn to positional asphyxiation. They had a chance to talk to someone who went thru that hell and spends every day in devastation over their mistake.

They knew how dangerous it was and in the end they didn't want the baby to cry. They believed that crying causes increased cortisol and the increased cortisol causes brain damage. They used that to excuse the babies all nighters in swings. They used that as a reason not to remove her out of her car seat after.they drove her around to get her to stop crying. They used that as a reason to hold and rock in the middle of the night even though they were exhausted.

They just didn't want her to cry.

I think that even with extensive education it is going to be very difficult to get compliance. Prosecuting them and prison time would. The media attention on the ones who knew and still did the wrong.thing would.

I think the hospital needs to do training and have documentation that the info is provided and.parents agreed that.they were given the info. I think each state needs to require parents being given a.handout on safe sleep and acknowledge they have received it.
Every well child visit... same thing.

Once the parent has been given the info and resources like the cdc to research then they should be accountable. If they do as my clients and the baby dies they need to be held accountable as you and I.
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Leigh 09:40 AM 06-01-2014
Originally Posted by Leanna:
Idk, Nan. Putting babies on their backs to sleep has become a mostly understood practice - that is people know they SHOULD be doing this. But do they necessarily know that they shouldn't have blankets, pillows, positioners, bumpers, and stuffies in the crib? No, I don't feel they do. I still look through fliers and ads and see completely decked out cribs being shown. I just read in Parents magazine that they will now make a commitment to only showing pics of cribs that show safe sleep practices. This hasn't become a completely understood topic yet.

Also, co-sleeping is WIDELY practiced in so many other cultures. How can we respectively communicate to all families in our country that co-sleeping isn't safe here?

As far as swing, car seat, stroller, etc. sleeping. I definitely do not feel as though it is understood that infants should not sleep in these. I was too embarrassed to post under a registered name, but when I first found this forum a few years ago, I made a post about how even with my Bachelor's degree in ECE and my countless hours of professional development and trainings on safe sleep, I NEVER HEARD THIS. So imagine now a young couple having their first child...I can bet that even if they learn "back to sleep" they don't necessarily learn about positional asphyxia.

I understand what you are saying about how parents should educate themselves but if they don't even know (or think they do because the hospital told them about the tummy sleeping part) then how do they know to even look further?

I am not excusing purposefully neglectful behavior, but I just think we need to be doing a much better job with the education piece of this.

Parents here are educated on safe sleep practices in the hospital. Parents at my daycare are REeducated by me. There is no parent at my home that can claim ignorance-I tell them for the 2nd time that it isn't safe. They choose "unsafe" because it's easier for them. I can't tell you how many times I have told someone to get the bumper out of their crib...the answer is ALWAYS the same "I used them with my last kid(s), and THEY are fine". I think that the safe sleep educators should be parents whose children died because of unsafe practices. Those parents should have to watch a funeral of a baby dead because of carelessness and selfishness.
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BumbleBee 09:55 AM 06-01-2014
Originally Posted by Leigh:
I think that the safe sleep educators should be parents whose children died because of unsafe practices. Those parents should have to watch a funeral of a baby dead because of carelessness and selfishness.
People still won't listen. I say that because my son died from me being careless & selfish. I will note that his death was not safe sleep/positional in nature. I knew a mom with a child who had similar health problems as my son. We both took part in the careless & selfish behavior that led to my child's death. Her kid is still alive, mine isn't. I say all that to say she didn't change. It was right in front of her. The cold harsh reality of a dead child because of careless & selfish behavior didn't deter her in the least. I live with my mistake every day, she lives with her child.
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NightOwl 10:08 AM 06-01-2014
I've been to one such funeral. The child was in my center when he passed and I was the person to perform cpr. Even though he died of SIDS and was sleeping safely, that was still plenty enough to make me so very paranoid about safe sleep practices. I never allowed an infant to sleep in a swing, bouncy seat, or on their tummies again. And threatened to immediately terminate any employee who I found doing so.

I also use Snuza monitors to monitor the sleeping infants' breathing. No one can just sit and watch an infant sleep, right? These devices are so fantastic and give one a certain peace of mind, but are IN NO WAY an excuse for unsafe sleep.
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Leigh 10:09 AM 06-01-2014
Originally Posted by Trummynme:
People still won't listen. I say that because my son died from me being careless & selfish. I will note that his death was not safe sleep/positional in nature. I knew a mom with a child who had similar health problems as my son. We both took part in the careless & selfish behavior that led to my child's death. Her kid is still alive, mine isn't. I say all that to say she didn't change. It was right in front of her. The cold harsh reality of a dead child because of careless & selfish behavior didn't deter her in the least. I live with my mistake every day, she lives with her child.
I am SO very sorry for what you have been through. While MY child has not died from unsafe sleep (I am adamant about safety), I have several friends, family, and acquaintances who have lost children to preventable causes (safe sleep). Their experiences are exactly why I am so hyper-vigilant about safety.
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NightOwl 10:11 AM 06-01-2014
Originally Posted by Trummynme:
People still won't listen. I say that because my son died from me being careless & selfish. I will note that his death was not safe sleep/positional in nature. I knew a mom with a child who had similar health problems as my son. We both took part in the careless & selfish behavior that led to my child's death. Her kid is still alive, mine isn't. I say all that to say she didn't change. It was right in front of her. The cold harsh reality of a dead child because of careless & selfish behavior didn't deter her in the least. I live with my mistake every day, she lives with her child.
Wow, I'm so very sorry for your loss. We'd love to hear your story, if you're comfortable sharing it. If not, that's totally Ok too. I understand all too well. It took me a long time to share mine.
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KiddieCahoots 10:24 AM 06-01-2014
Originally Posted by Trummynme:
People still won't listen. I say that because my son died from me being careless & selfish. I will note that his death was not safe sleep/positional in nature. I knew a mom with a child who had similar health problems as my son. We both took part in the careless & selfish behavior that led to my child's death. Her kid is still alive, mine isn't. I say all that to say she didn't change. It was right in front of her. The cold harsh reality of a dead child because of careless & selfish behavior didn't deter her in the least. I live with my mistake every day, she lives with her child.
Trummynme, I'm so sorry
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KiddieCahoots 10:25 AM 06-01-2014
Originally Posted by Wednesday:
I've been to one such funeral. The child was in my center when he passed and I was the person to perform cpr. Even though he died of SIDS and was sleeping safely, that was still plenty enough to make me so very paranoid about safe sleep practices. I never allowed an infant to sleep in a swing, bouncy seat, or on their tummies again. And threatened to immediately terminate any employee who I found doing so.

I also use Snuza monitors to monitor the sleeping infants' breathing. No one can just sit and watch an infant sleep, right? These devices are so fantastic and give one a certain peace of mind, but are IN NO WAY an excuse for unsafe sleep.
Wednesday, thanks to your story I've purchased 2 Snuza's, written up the parental permission forms, and now use them in my child care.
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NightOwl 10:29 AM 06-01-2014
Originally Posted by KiddieCahoots:
Wednesday, thanks to your story I've purchased 2 Snuza's, written up the parental permission forms, and now use them in my child care.
Oohhhhhhh my gosh!! That's fantastic!! I'm gonna text Salvatore's mom RIGHT NOW and tell her!
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NightOwl 10:34 AM 06-01-2014
Omg.... I'm gonna cry now.... That's so wonderful.
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craftymissbeth 10:41 AM 06-01-2014
I agree that they should have to SEE a baby's funeral.

Although... My nephew died from SIDS in 2008. Even then, my sister sleeps her 6 mo in a car seat, props his bottle with a blanket, swaddled him tightly (my nephew died while swaddled), etc. She has one from before him and two after. She hasn't changed her ways because "the chances of it happening again are extremely low".

Too many parents do what's easiest because a crying baby rattles their nerves and breaks their hearts. Even with all of the education in the world AND experiencing an infant death some people are still too selfish and lazy to change their ways.

I've seen it referenced several times that here that their childrens doctors actually recommended them sleep their babies in swings or car seats. I'd be looking for a new doctor. That doctor won't be held accountable if your baby dies.




Trummy, I'm so sorry for your loss
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craftymissbeth 10:41 AM 06-01-2014
Originally Posted by KiddieCahoots:
Wednesday, thanks to your story I've purchased 2 Snuza's, written up the parental permission forms, and now use them in my child care.
I purchased one, also! I'm just waiting to get a younger infant that I can use it on.
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playground1 10:50 AM 06-01-2014
God, there's so much conflicting information all the time, that it's hard to keep track. When my oldest was a baby, they were telling us to put them on their bellies to sleep and with my last, swaddling was all the rage. (I did swaddle him, with hands out and it worked great for us. That's him picking his nose in my pic.) We can't always just use our instincts anymore, as moms.

I just really want to say to everyone that's lost a little one, I'm so, so sorry. I can't even imagine the pain you must carry. Feel hugged.
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Unregistered 11:40 AM 06-01-2014
"I used them with my last kid(s), and THEY are fine".

^^^This!!!!

Things are always changing because we are learning more! We're doing more studies, seeing more patterns, and creating laws and regulations because some parents don't use common sense. I'm big with carseat safety- my 3yr old still rear faces, and while I get that not everyone is that level of obsessed, if I try explaining why a 3 year old at least needs to be in a 5 point, I get this crap- "I was allowed to roll around in the back of a truck and I was fine!" Yeah, but were you in a severe accident while in that truck? If you had been, would you have been fine?

Sorry, off on a tangent, but the same. Yes, your other kids may have been super lucky, but why take a chance???
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Angelsj 05:18 PM 06-01-2014
Originally Posted by queen_of_the_playground:
God, there's so much conflicting information all the time, that it's hard to keep track. When my oldest was a baby, they were telling us to put them on their bellies to sleep and with my last, swaddling was all the rage. (I did swaddle him, with hands out and it worked great for us. That's him picking his nose in my pic.) We can't always just use our instincts anymore, as moms.

I just really want to say to everyone that's lost a little one, I'm so, so sorry. I can't even imagine the pain you must carry. Feel hugged.
Personally, I don't subscribed to a lot of the stuff floating around. Positioning, swaddling, no swings, co-sleeping, etc. My own infants have slept in many of those places. I do what I have to to follow the regs, but so much changes so often.
What I do think makes ALL the difference in the world is close supervision. All other rules followed, my one and only infant also sleeps in my line of sight at all times, and is checked on every 5 mins, visually, not by monitor.
All the other rules just change too often, and I don't want my dck to be the one that shows a rule doesn't work.
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SignMeUp 05:27 PM 06-01-2014
Originally Posted by Angelsj:
What I do think makes ALL the difference in the world is close supervision....
All the other rules just change too often, and I don't want my dck to be the one that shows a rule doesn't work.
I certainly agree with this part. When my own child was four months old, said child decided to flout the rules by flipping from tummy to back while sleeping, arms spread wide. I watched in horror because this went against the wisdom of the time. I kept a close eye and worried a lot.

That said, the Back to Sleep campaign originally claimed about a 50% reduction in SID (SUID) deaths, if I remember correctly. The numbers slid in recent years, but may be because people got lax about following the guidelines. Hence the new regulations in child care.
The numbers of deaths in my state while infants were at home were shocking to me. Many many times the deaths in child care, but then, parents are not subject to regulation.
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nannyde 06:17 PM 06-01-2014
Originally Posted by Angelsj:
Personally, I don't subscribed to a lot of the stuff floating around. Positioning, swaddling, no swings, co-sleeping, etc. My own infants have slept in many of those places. I do what I have to to follow the regs, but so much changes so often.
What I do think makes ALL the difference in the world is close supervision. All other rules followed, my one and only infant also sleeps in my line of sight at all times, and is checked on every 5 mins, visually, not by monitor.
All the other rules just change too often, and I don't want my dck to be the one that shows a rule doesn't work.
I think what's starting to change is how specific the cause of death is. Now more coroners know the difference between positional death and SIDS.

I don't do that level of supervision. The baby doesn't have that anywhere it goes. I do ten minute rounds and have the babies on a different level from me. I think the proper position in a flat surface bare crib or playpen with a dark cool room and a warm layer that is fitted over clothing is the best to increase the chances of survival. Also I keep the baby centered in the playpen and have open mesh on at least two sides.

I also think being very strict about not allowing sick babies helps too.
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craftymissbeth 06:24 PM 06-01-2014
Every year around Christmas, there's a SIDS get together type thing where we all celebrate the babies lost in our area. There is a surprising number of families who said they were holding their child when they died. I personally believe that there are babies that are simply higher risk all on their own. In the "perfect" condition that particular baby has a much greater chance of dying.
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nannyde 07:37 PM 06-01-2014
Originally Posted by craftymissbeth:
Every year around Christmas, there's a SIDS get together type thing where we all celebrate the babies lost in our area. There is a surprising number of families who said they were holding their child when they died. I personally believe that there are babies that are simply higher risk all on their own. In the "perfect" condition that particular baby has a much greater chance of dying.
Holding them is only perfect when you are wide awake and staring at their chest rise and fall and their face. Holding them while you are exhausted on a cushion surface is deadly.

How many of the ones holding them were doing so while they were trying to get the baby to not cry? How many were in the middle of the night?

When a parent is tired they should not be holding them sitting down on a couch or a chair or in bed.
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Mom of 4 08:22 PM 06-01-2014
Originally Posted by queen_of_the_playground:
I noticed that many of you are commenting that your dck's are sleeping at in a swing (at home). Is this a thing? I've never even heard of anyone doing this on a regular basis. Isn't that terrible for their backs?
My first child had severe apnea, and could not sleep on her back or side. She slept in a swing with monitors on her til about 6 months. My second got RSV, same problem, he was about 6 months when I stopped him there (RSV happened at 3 months and he was on oxygen for over 6 weeks) My twins were also in swings, but they preferred their basinettes. However, when my daughter had PDA diagnosed at 2 weeks, the nurse put her in her normal carseat and let her sleep in that and said til the PDA resolved OR surgery, she'd have to stay that way. The PDA (THANKFULLY) resolved on it's own and she did not need surgery. The confirmation was also at 6 months of age. Her twin brother preferred to lay down and was the ONLY one of 4 that did actually sleep on his back.

My foster child slept upright for a little bit, too, due to breathing issues. He only did that for about a month. Then slept on his back. The other foster child, I got in as an older, so don't know how she slept.

And of course, both of my surrogate babies parents sleep them semi upright with a white semi-soft foamy thing. They are from another country and they sleep their babies semi upright with it. It has a small hole in it too, so their babies don't get flat heads. It can also keep the babies side-sleeping for the parents who needed their babies to be side-sleepers. I never saw one in the US other than the one they brought.

So out of 8 children, all 8 had no issues with SIDS. All are healthy now. In the case of my dd with Apnea, the way she slept may very well have saved her life. We'll never know.
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Angelsj 05:14 AM 06-02-2014
Originally Posted by nannyde:
I think what's starting to change is how specific the cause of death is. Now more coroners know the difference between positional death and SIDS.

I don't do that level of supervision. The baby doesn't have that anywhere it goes. I do ten minute rounds and have the babies on a different level from me. I think the proper position in a flat surface bare crib or playpen with a dark cool room and a warm layer that is fitted over clothing is the best to increase the chances of survival. Also I keep the baby centered in the playpen and have open mesh on at least two sides.

I also think being very strict about not allowing sick babies helps too.
I don't think 10 mins is bad either. That is pretty good supervision. My concern with the simplicity of this latest campaign (ABC) is the parents may be thinking, "Ok, I did the alone, back, crib thing. Now I can leave the baby alone to sleep without checking on them." Or even listening on a monitor, shoot even a camera. I haven't found one yet that can see a small infant breathing.
I just don't feel we have enough info yet to make it so simple. It is also really confusing to parents to allow the baby to sleep in the car in a car seat, but not at home. Again, the reason is close supervision (we are right there in the car) but at home, we walk away and leave the baby to sleep.
We need to find a way to do a lot less cutesy little sayings and a lot more education on WHY these things save babies.
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Annalee 06:03 AM 06-02-2014
Back when they had the loud wind-up swings, I used the swing some to help my son because the dr said the movement helped colic???? Not sure if it did or didn't but on certain afternoons the swing is the only relief I got. It seemed his screaming started at 5pm every day...so the swing is where he went and if he went to sleep I didn't bother him. I felt the swing helped he and I, but luckily the colic seemed to pass after a couple hours each afternoon....so night time went smoothly but if the crying from colic had persisted I probably would have used the swing at night, too. Education has come so far so I don't know what I would have done if the swing was considered like it is now for sleep, but I DO KNOW the swing helped my son calm down and it helped my nerves.
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Heidi 06:12 AM 06-02-2014
Originally Posted by queen_of_the_playground:
God, there's so much conflicting information all the time, that it's hard to keep track. When my oldest was a baby, they were telling us to put them on their bellies to sleep and with my last, swaddling was all the rage. (I did swaddle him, with hands out and it worked great for us. That's him picking his nose in my pic.) We can't always just use our instincts anymore, as moms.

I just really want to say to everyone that's lost a little one, I'm so, so sorry. I can't even imagine the pain you must carry. Feel hugged.

This is so true..

This is not the original study, but it's cited by this organic mattress company.

http://www.healthychild.com/has-the-...ds-been-found/

I don't know that it's ALL the reason for SIDS, but it's totally plausible to me that it contributes.
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nannyde 07:20 AM 06-02-2014
Originally Posted by Angelsj:
I don't think 10 mins is bad either. That is pretty good supervision. My concern with the simplicity of this latest campaign (ABC) is the parents may be thinking, "Ok, I did the alone, back, crib thing. Now I can leave the baby alone to sleep without checking on them." Or even listening on a monitor, shoot even a camera. I haven't found one yet that can see a small infant breathing.
I just don't feel we have enough info yet to make it so simple. It is also really confusing to parents to allow the baby to sleep in the car in a car seat, but not at home. Again, the reason is close supervision (we are right there in the car) but at home, we walk away and leave the baby to sleep.
We need to find a way to do a lot less cutesy little sayings and a lot more education on WHY these things save babies.
The sleep in car seat in car needs to be added to the training. My understanding is that because the car bounces around on the surface of the road and goes.from start to stop and side to side that the baby is naturally bounced around often. This stimulates the repositioning of the head and neck and the baby to deep breathe.

I think parents need to understand that they don't get ALL the information of safety by one billboard or campaign. They have to educate themselves. With technology and content so accessible they are set better than ANY generation before us. They aren't limited to generational learning. They have the world wide web, telephones, and designated public health specialist to consult.

Do the work.

Seriously the amount of time the average parent spends on attachment care education and education education you would think they could spare some safe sleep education.
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Childminder 07:39 AM 06-02-2014
I have that baby/family right now. The parent that sleeps the baby in the carrier.

She is single parent, three under 4 - so 6 weeks, 13month and 3yr old.

I get that she works full time, has three babies and wants to sleep. I get that babies like to feel secure and are used to being all tight in the womb.

But she is making it difficult for me to care for ALL of the children I have in my care if I canNOT hold baby all day long, sleep him in car seats, bouncy seats or in the swing.

Btw, she worked in a daycare for two years. She knows the rules. She knows what's safe!
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drseuss 08:19 AM 06-02-2014
A related question for Nan or anyone else who might like to answer. When do you lay off the constant sleep supervison? Do you do it according to the peak ages for SIDS risk, or do you have a different timetable? Just wondering because I've got two 10-month old infants here.
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MaryF 08:31 AM 06-02-2014
Originally Posted by KiddieCahoots:
Wednesday, thanks to your story I've purchased 2 Snuza's, written up the parental permission forms, and now use them in my child care.

Could I please see your permission form? This thread convinced me to buy the Snuza for my daycare as well.
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Blackcat31 08:38 AM 06-02-2014
Originally Posted by drseuss:
A related question for Nan or anyone else who might like to answer. When do you lay off the constant sleep supervison? Do you do it according to the peak ages for SIDS risk, or do you have a different timetable? Just wondering because I've got two 10-month old infants here.
I provide CONSTANT supervision for sleeping children at ALL ages here.

Everyone sleeps within eye sight at all times.

I do NOT sleep anyone behind a closed door. Ever.

Too much liability for me.

Easier to just have them sleep where I can constantly see them.

I would probably do things differently in my own home with my own children but since the kids I have are not mine, I go above and beyond to ensure safe sleep....so I can sleep at night too.
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craftymissbeth 08:49 AM 06-02-2014
Originally Posted by drseuss:
A related question for Nan or anyone else who might like to answer. When do you lay off the constant sleep supervison? Do you do it according to the peak ages for SIDS risk, or do you have a different timetable? Just wondering because I've got two 10-month old infants here.
I check in all of my kids every 10 minutes, but I stop being obsessive about it once they're crawling and super mobile. I still check on them, but the littler non-mobile infants I check on far more often.
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Heidi 09:11 AM 06-02-2014
Originally Posted by drseuss:
A related question for Nan or anyone else who might like to answer. When do you lay off the constant sleep supervison? Do you do it according to the peak ages for SIDS risk, or do you have a different timetable? Just wondering because I've got two 10-month old infants here.
For me, it's a gradual process. At 6 weeks (the earliest I take them), I sleep them here in the main room with me. Once they seem to be bothered by noise, usually at 3 months or so, I move them to a room nearby and check on them frequently. By 7 or 8 months, they are in further rooms, and I don't really do a lot of checks; just listen at the door occasionally.

I keep them in pnp's as long as I can, and once they are on mats, they're back right near me again.
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drseuss 09:23 AM 06-02-2014
Originally Posted by Blackcat31:
I provide CONSTANT supervision for sleeping children at ALL ages here.

Everyone sleeps within eye sight at all times.

I do NOT sleep anyone behind a closed door. Ever.

Too much liability for me.

Easier to just have them sleep where I can constantly see them.

I would probably do things differently in my own home with my own children but since the kids I have are not mine, I go above and beyond to ensure safe sleep....so I can sleep at night too.
I have an open area where the non-infants sleep on mats, and an adjacent room where infants sleep in their PnPs, with the door open. I am not sitting in the doorway watching them and never leaving that doorway-I am prepping afternoon things and passing by looking in on them every so often. Are you saying that you are sitting there watching the whole nap without doing anything else?

Having mixed ages complicates the situation, but that is FCC.

The information we learn now in the SIDS classes is so frightening. We had some of this info when my children were babies, but I think that if we knew then what they are telling us now, I would have been out of my mind with fear. I had never even heard of positional asphyxiation fifteen years ago. Yikes. When our own babies were in a swing, if they fell asleep there we didn't really think anything of leaving them in the swing for half an hour.
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Annalee 09:31 AM 06-02-2014
Originally Posted by drseuss:
I have an open area where the non-infants sleep on mats, and an adjacent room where infants sleep in their PnPs, with the door open. I am not sitting in the doorway watching them and never leaving that doorway-I am prepping afternoon things and passing by looking in on them every so often. Are you saying that you are sitting there watching the whole nap without doing anything else?

Having mixed ages complicates the situation, but that is FCC.

The information we learn now in the SIDS classes is so frightening. We had some of this info when my children were babies, but I think that if we knew then what they are telling us now, I would have been out of my mind with fear. I had never even heard of positional asphyxiation fifteen years ago. Yikes. When our own babies were in a swing, if they fell asleep there we didn't really think anything of leaving them in the swing for half an hour.
My son (10 now) had his tonsils out when he was 5. When the dr was prepping him he asked me if he slept on a pillow at home which I told him no, he sleeps on his stomach with NO pillow. The dr told me he was surprised he could sleep like that and still get enough air to breath due to his tonsils being so large and near rotten. Point being, I guess there are things that can happen no matter how hard we try as parents...We just do the best we can!!!
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TwinKristi 09:31 AM 06-02-2014
I think there's a few problems with the sleep issues we have with infants.

A) Deaths labeled at SIDS when it's not, like health issues, poor sleeping choices or unsafe sleep practices.
B) Inconsistent info on this subject, DCPs say one thing, Grandma says another, Pediatrician say another, friend (IRL and online) all have their own two cents...
C) Babies having different dispositions and needs for sleeping, some do fine in a crib from day 1, some don't. Parents start to do what they have to do to get baby to sleep, including swings and carseats and such.
D) Aftermarket baby products designed for sleep. Crib bumpers have been scrutinized for years now yet I still see a LOT of parents using them thinking it's protecting their child from hitting their head on the crib. The Nap Nanny deal that's now contributed to the death of 6 (or more?) babies, very much designed for sleeping babies. All the new baby gear that appears to be designed for babies to sleep in... Papasian chair, Rock N Play Sleeper (which IS designed & marketed for sleeping) and such.

I will admit I have personally had my OWN infants sleep in swings, Rock N Play sleeper, carseats, etc. I had never heard of positional asphyxia until recently. I mean, common sense tells you these things can happen, but when driving long distances a sleeping baby is a good thing. When your baby won't sleep anywhere but your arms and the swing, the swing seems like a life saver. The RNP Sleeper was brand new when I had my youngest and it was honestly the only way he would sleep more than a few mins out of my arms.
I also have a friend who's baby was just released from the NICU for apnea spells and now has a monitor on him and has to take caffeine to stimulate his brain to breathe and sleep properly. He was born a couple weeks early but is otherwise healthy. She posts pics of him in his little Papasian chair with his monitors and such. This is her 6th child and I know first hand how hard is it to have a baby who needs to sleep and 5 other kids who need you too.

Luckily the babies I had who went to daycare all slept in cribs and on their own well. The last 2 haven't and it's fine because they've been home with me. But parents who KNOW their child has to attend daycare need to sleep train (and bottle train, etc.) their child and have them ready for group care where they can't be held and put to sleep in a swing. I'm planning on revising my contract and creating a handbook for parents and including info on safe sleep practices and that I only put a child to sleep in a crib with their own sheet, a sleep sack if they're younger, only a blanket if they're older, binkies only if necessary, no stuffies, no attached binkies, etc.
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drseuss 09:31 AM 06-02-2014
Originally Posted by Heidi:
For me, it's a gradual process. At 6 weeks (the earliest I take them), I sleep them here in the main room with me. Once they seem to be bothered by noise, usually at 3 months or so, I move them to a room nearby and check on them frequently. By 7 or 8 months, they are in further rooms, and I don't really do a lot of checks; just listen at the door occasionally.

I keep them in pnp's as long as I can, and once they are on mats, they're back right near me again.
That's the thing with infants, they can only handle the noise and activity while they are newborn and then it disturbs them. To me, having a quiet, separate area of one's own to sleep in is one of the main perks of family care vs. center care.
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Annalee 09:37 AM 06-02-2014
Originally Posted by drseuss:
That's the thing with infants, they can only handle the noise and activity while they are newborn and then it disturbs them. To me, having a quiet, separate area of one's own to sleep in is one of the main perks of family care vs. center care.
I run a fan or sound machine by the pnp. The pnp is in the corner of my large room and I set up my quiet materials on this side of the room. It seems to work!
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Childminder 10:46 AM 06-02-2014
Did everyone read about fans and the reduction of SIDS related incidents?

"Investigators concluded that sleeping with a fan lowers SIDS risk by more than 70%."

[url="http://www.webmd.com/parenting/baby/news/20081006/sleeping-with-fan-may-lower-sids-risk"[/URL]

Has to do with babies not being able to push the carbon dioxide away because their breathing isn't strong enough and they rebreathe expelled air.

I do know of a death when the baby co-slept between both parents and they determined the child wasn't able to breathe in oxygen because all he was able to get was their combined carbon dioxide.
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drseuss 10:52 AM 06-02-2014
Originally Posted by Childminder:
Did everyone read about fans and the reduction of SIDS related incidents?

"Investigators concluded that sleeping with a fan lowers SIDS risk by more than 70%."

[url="http://www.webmd.com/parenting/baby/news/20081006/sleeping-with-fan-may-lower-sids-risk"[/URL]

Has to do with babies not being able to push the carbon dioxide away because their breathing isn't strong enough and they rebreathe expelled air.

I do know of a death when the baby co-slept between both parents and they determined the child wasn't able to breathe in oxygen because all he was able to get was their combined carbon dioxide.
Yes. I always leave a ceiling fan on in each room, and if there's no ceiling fan then a portable fan. Sometimes both. And just to be safe I leave our furnace fan running at all times.
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drseuss 10:53 AM 06-02-2014
Such a small, easy thing to do and according to the stats, very important.
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SignMeUp 10:54 AM 06-02-2014
Originally Posted by Childminder:
Did everyone read about fans and the reduction of SIDS related incidents?
I know that they include using a fan in our SUID training. Don't think I heard 70% though.
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Angelsj 11:02 AM 06-02-2014
Originally Posted by drseuss:
A related question for Nan or anyone else who might like to answer. When do you lay off the constant sleep supervison? Do you do it according to the peak ages for SIDS risk, or do you have a different timetable? Just wondering because I've got two 10-month old infants here.
I check ALL children at least every 30 mins. Most are in my line of sight anyway, so no issues. I do have one that sleeps lightly so he is behind a closed door with a camera monitor. Not sure if that counts as eyesight, but I physically open the door and check on him every 30 mins at the longest. (He is 3 years old)

Infants every 5 mins until they are at least a year old.
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Annalee 11:05 AM 06-02-2014
Originally Posted by Childminder:
Did everyone read about fans and the reduction of SIDS related incidents?

"Investigators concluded that sleeping with a fan lowers SIDS risk by more than 70%."

[url="http://www.webmd.com/parenting/baby/news/20081006/sleeping-with-fan-may-lower-sids-risk"[/URL]

Has to do with babies not being able to push the carbon dioxide away because their breathing isn't strong enough and they rebreathe expelled air.

I do know of a death when the baby co-slept between both parents and they determined the child wasn't able to breathe in oxygen because all he was able to get was their combined carbon dioxide.
yes, a fan helps with SIDS along with being a noise blocker while the infant sleeps!
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Angelsj 11:08 AM 06-02-2014
Originally Posted by Annalee:
I run a fan or sound machine by the pnp. The pnp is in the corner of my large room and I set up my quiet materials on this side of the room. It seems to work!
Agreed. My almost 9 month old sleeps in the middle of the kitchen floor (in a pnp before anyone thinks I have a baby sleeping on the kitchen floor ) with a fan for white noise, for both of her naps, and does quite well.
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Annalee 11:09 AM 06-02-2014
Originally Posted by Angelsj:
I check ALL children at least every 30 mins. Most are in my line of sight anyway, so no issues. I do have one that sleeps lightly so he is behind a closed door with a camera monitor. Not sure if that counts as eyesight, but I physically open the door and check on him every 30 mins at the longest. (He is 3 years old)

Infants every 5 mins until they are at least a year old.
Centers here have to check every 15 minutes but homes are every 30 minutes for licensing! I am a home but I went through the infant/toddler caregiver credential pilot program and they got me in the habit of checking quarterly as well!
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KiddieCahoots 11:13 AM 06-02-2014
Originally Posted by MaryF:
Could I please see your permission form? This thread convinced me to buy the Snuza for my daycare as well.
I'm technology illiterate, so this is typed from the original

Dear Parent,
Early Education and Care has strict policies for keeping infants safe during sleep.
Per policy [606 CMR 7.11(13c) Department of Early Education and Care, Health and Safety, Sleep, Rest and Quiet Activity]; Restraints may not be used on sleeping children under any circumstances. & [606 CMR 7.11 (13e-5)]; ensure that cribs, port-a-cribs, playpens or bassinets used for sleeping infants younger than 12 months of age do not contain pillows, comforters, stuffed animals or other soft, padded materials.
In addition to EEC infant safe sleeping standards, xxxxxx child care has acquired the latest devices to help keep infants safe during sleep and help reduce the risk of SIDS.
Snuza Hero Movement Monitor Devices easily clip onto diapers and are able to monitor your baby's slightest movements, and sound an alert if all movement stops, providing extra security for your baby. No cords, wires, or sensor pads are required.
If you would like to have the use of Snuza Hero Movement Monitor Device for your infant while at xxxxxx child care, please sign and date the parental consent.

I_____________________________request that the Snuza Hero Movement Monitor Device be applied/clipped to my infant________________________
diaper during naps at xxxxxx child care.
________________________________
date
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