Default Style Register
Daycare.com Forum
Daycare Center and Family Home Forum>Termination Gone Wrong
Growing1atime 11:30 AM 08-13-2011
Hi. I am new here. But I needed a place to find support for my Daycare. Glad I found this forum. Frist a little background. I have not received my license yet. I applied 3 months ago. CA is slow. I got a call two days ago to set up my inspection and it is in just a couple of weeks. But I have started caring for children due to financial reasons. I know it is not good, but not feeding my four kids was worse of the two.

Here is my issue: I had to terminate care of a child and the termination went horrible. The reasons I terminated care are because the dck is 10mths and very needy. He has been sick for 3 weeks and the mom just kept bringing him. He had a very bad ear infection. One of my children is a 9mth old baby. I had reservations about taking on another infant but the DKM really wanted me to take him since she couldn't find good care other places.

After 2 mths in my care it became apparent to me that I couldn't provide the care this child needed and still care for my own children. He was in my care for 50-55 hours per week. With school starting and sports I want to move my daycare to more parttime children. I have twins that are here 2 days a week and are gone by 1:30 or 2:30 everyday, and another 2 year old here only 3 days a week.

The dck I terminated had caught roseola and hadn't been here for three days so I called on Friday to give them a two week notice. I offered them a refund on the three days they missed to soften the blow.

The mom showed up to my house yelling, ranting and cussing. Said horrible things and said she was going to report me to licensing.

I had a feeling she was unstable. Now I know she is. Now I have this sick feeling that licensing is going to show up at my door. But I have already applied I have everything ready. All I need is the inspection. I am wondering how bad it is going to be?

Also, I am worried that the DKM is going to create other problems. Being so new at this I am a little freaked. She threw a piece of folded up paper at my face after barging in my house. What am I exposing my family to?

Any words of advice would be great.
Reply
Zoe 01:47 PM 08-13-2011
What are the regulations in your state about taking in kids when you're unlicensed? Were you over the allowed number of children? Because if this dcm reports you it might be a problem for you becoming licensed.

If you are following the rules, then I would call your licensor and tell him/her about what is going on. Sometimes when a parent is terminated they want to "get revenge" and make false claims about you. Giving the licensor a heads up will help you out. Tell the truth about what happened.
Reply
nannyde 02:36 PM 08-13-2011
If I'm understanding you correctly you have been operating an illegal day care and are in the process of getting licensed to do legal care.

If that's correct then you have to understand that clients who are willing to hire illegal child care are going to be clients who you have a TON of problems with. You can't have it both ways.

You can't operate illegally and draw in all clients who will behave properly, parent well, and treat you and your home with respect. It isn't going to happen.

So you took the risk and the inevitable happened. Now you will have to answer to licensing before you even get licensed.

The best advice I can give is to be honest with the licensening and take whatever sanctions you have to take.
Reply
mom2many 03:15 PM 08-13-2011
I just looked up the Ca regs regarding operating w/out a license. It states that if the Dept. has reason to believe that family child care is being provided w/out a license, the agency shall:

1. Conduct a site visit to determine if this is true and if continued operation will be dangerous to the health and safety of the children in care.

2. Notify the unlicensed provider in writing of the requirements for such licensure.

3. Issue a Notice of Operation in Violation of Law if it is found and documented that continued operation of the family daycare home will be dangerous to the health and safety of the children. Situations endangering the health and safety of the children include, but not limited to:

(A) Evidence of physical or mental abuse.
(B) Children left unattended or left with a minor.
(C) Clear evidence of unsanitary conditions.
(D) Fire safety/fire hazards.
(E) Unfenced or accessible pools or other bodies of water.
(F) Hazardous physical plant.

4. Issue of Notice of Operation in Violation of Law if the unlicensed provider does not apply for a license within 15 working days from the date of notification.

The Dept. shall have the authority to issue an immediate civil penalty pursuant to Section 102393 and Section 1596.891 of the Health and Safety Code which provides:

(1) A person who violates Section 1596.80 of the Health and Safety Code may be liable for an immediate assessment of civil penalties in the amount of $200 per day.

(2) The penalty specified in Section 102357 shall be imposed if the operator of an unlicensed facility refuses to seek licensure or the operator seeks licensure and is denied but continues to operate.

If I'm understanding all of this correctly, I believe since you have already applied and are just waiting on your inspection, they might not implement a fine or shut you down, as long as you pass all of the Health and Safety requirements and have everything else completed...CPR and Health and Safety courses completed.
Reply
cheerfuldom 05:41 PM 08-13-2011
I think you should call the licensor and just get going with whatever consequences you may face. As for what this mother did, it was uncalled for but to be honest, you broke the rules and you can't ask for others to follow the rules when you aren't. I understand having to feed your family but you should have figured something else out....now you have to face whatever consequences are there. Nanny is right, you can't expect to find families that respect authority if you yourself are not doing that. This mom was wanting her and her child to be the exception to your rules, but weren't you doing the same thing to the state of CA? Hopefully you learned your lesson and are able to move forward. Its hard starting a daycare and I definitely feel for the predicament.
Reply
Growing1atime 06:00 PM 08-13-2011
Yes I have everything ready for licensing. I have my CPR & First Aid, Health and Safety Class. I have completed the Live Scan background check. I have the earthquake kits ready to go. My house is completely safe. They could come today and do an inspection and I would pass. I wish they would!!!

I know I am operating illegally. I took that chance. I guess I didn't really think about it in terms of the type of parents I would get. The other two parents of the kids I have in my care are GREAT! They appreciate everything I do for their children. I think I just have to stock this up to a hard lesson.
Reply
Growing1atime 06:22 PM 08-13-2011
Originally Posted by cheerfuldom:
I think you should call the licensor and just get going with whatever consequences you may face. As for what this mother did, it was uncalled for but to be honest, you broke the rules and you can't ask for others to follow the rules when you aren't. I understand having to feed your family but you should have figured something else out....now you have to face whatever consequences are there. Nanny is right, you can't expect to find families that respect authority if you yourself are not doing that. This mom was wanting her and her child to be the exception to your rules, but weren't you doing the same thing to the state of CA? Hopefully you learned your lesson and are able to move forward. Its hard starting a daycare and I definitely feel for the predicament.
If I understand you correctly you are saying I deserved to have someone storm into my home with my own children here and have them act the way they did because I offered care for her child with out a license. That suggests that by having a license your childcare is some how safer, better. What does a license really do? They don't monitor your care. They don't monitor your contracts or your menu's or your schedules. My neighbor has had a licensed daycare for 5 years and they just came to her house for the first time a month ago they were there for one hour. They checked to make sure she wasn't over capacity, that she had proper paper work. That was it. How does that have anything to do with the types of parents you get.

I was hoping for more help on how to handle scary dcm's & dcd's but I can see I am only going to be made to feel less than. Really nice forum.
Reply
mac60 06:32 PM 08-13-2011
Seriously, because a person is an unlicensed provider does not mean they are a magnet for bad parents/families. In our state you don't have to be licensed, I have in 12 years only ever had 1 family ask if I was, and the dad piped up and said what does it matter, what matters is the person caring for our child. Until you have been in a situation where you had to choose to do something to buy food for the table, or let your kids go hungry, and the big one, waiting for the gov't entities to get off their duff and do their job, none of us have the right to judge others. I know someone right now who has been working on getting licensed/registered for more than 1 year, and everytime she turns around, there is 1 more thing. It is rediculous. This person came for advice, not to be badgered.
Reply
countrymom 06:37 PM 08-13-2011
maybe someone will post during the week day, most of us enjoy some kid free time on the weekend (ok, I held a yard sale) most people who get upset, say things they don't mean. I would keep everything you have, any phone messages from the dcm or email messages. She's angry and she's taking it out on you. I would wait for a few days till dcm cools her lid and becomes level headed.
Reply
Unregistered 06:37 PM 08-13-2011
I do not agree with anyone deserving this! I also don't agree that being unlicensed means you are setting yourself up to take on horrible clients like this. I was not licensed when I first started my daycare and had excellent and considerate families. One family had both parents whom were doctors and they scrutinized everything, but were extremely happy! The interesting thing was that many parents didn't even care. They knew that being licensed didn't really ensure the quality of care their child was receiving. Look how many states don't even require a license for a certain number of kids in a person's care! I'm not saying its okay to break the law and not follow regulations, but I also don't think anyone who is merely waiting to get things finalized has crossed the line and deserves this type of feedback.
Reply
countrymom 06:38 PM 08-13-2011
Originally Posted by mac60:
Seriously, because a person is an unlicensed provider does not mean they are a magnet for bad parents/families. In our state you don't have to be licensed, I have in 12 years only ever had 1 family ask if I was, and the dad piped up and said what does it matter, what matters is the person caring for our child. Until you have been in a situation where you had to choose to do something to buy food for the table, or let your kids go hungry, and the big one, waiting for the gov't entities to get off their duff and do their job, none of us have the right to judge others. I know someone right now who has been working on getting licensed/registered for more than 1 year, and everytime she turns around, there is 1 more thing. It is rediculous. This person came for advice, not to be badgered.
I agree!!!!
Reply
Unregistered 06:46 PM 08-13-2011
Ahhh Nannyde - Once again the voice of authority. Or of "badgering". I've never had a parent ask if I am registered. (I am.) I've only had wonderful parents. But somehow magically if I weren't, they'd all be less wonderful? Could you maybe sometime try to actually help the people who are asking questions instead of being so judgmental and so quick to make broad statements which may not even apply to the original question?
OP - I wish you all the best. Hope everything works out well for you.
Reply
cheerfuldom 07:36 PM 08-13-2011
I did state that I felt this DCM's behavior was uncalled and did sympathize with your predicament. However, I personally am a big believer in karma. Thats just my own personal thing. I hope you stick around because this forum is very helpful at times but its important to remember that when you put your situations out there for critique or support, you can't control what others will post back. I stand by what I said and you are welcome to disregard it. As for how to avoid crazy parents, there is no full proof way. You did mention you had sort of a bad feeling about this parent so I would say, definitely go with your gut at interviews. You don't have to have a clear reason in order to say no, you don't want them in your daycare. Thats the joy of running your own business. Try a trial period (should be outlined in your contract). For me, if it is not working within two weeks, its not going to work and I go ahead and term them. In my experience, time almost always makes things worse, not better. It depends on the issue but in general, that is how I feel. Again, hope you get this figured out and get your license quickly. Normally, you can attract a higher quality family when you are abiding by the rules and finding families that respect that fact. Good luck!
Reply
sharlan 07:41 PM 08-13-2011
I'm afraid that you aren't going to find much sympathy. What you did was illegal, and sadly you are going to have to pay the consequences. It is up to your inspector, but the fines can be up to $200 a day.

Having that paper is more important for your protection than it really is for the parents. When my kids were little, I used both licensed and non licensed, neither one was better than the other.

IMHO, it just wasn't worth it for me to risk it. It took me 5 mos to get my license. My home was ready for inspection, fingerprints were filed, classes taken, etc. the day I turned in my paperwork. I called and told them I was ready for inspection and it still took another 3 mos.

DSS WILL come knocking on your door within 10 days (I believe) of the call. They will not give you any warning. Make sure that your home is spotless and everything is absolutely perfect. Make sure that you have all the proper paperwork complete and signed. Make sure that your roster is complete and updated.

Some of the inspectors are lax, others are hardnosed. I've dealt with both.
Reply
nannyde 07:51 PM 08-13-2011
Originally Posted by Unregistered:
Ahhh Nannyde - Once again the voice of authority. Or of "badgering". I've never had a parent ask if I am registered. (I am.) I've only had wonderful parents. But somehow magically if I weren't, they'd all be less wonderful? Could you maybe sometime try to actually help the people who are asking questions instead of being so judgmental and so quick to make broad statements which may not even apply to the original question?
OP - I wish you all the best. Hope everything works out well for you.
Well at least you can give me that I was CORRECT on the last licensing conversation we had friend.

Are you suggesting that your parents don't have any way of finding out if you are registered without asking you? You don't use that to advertise?

You have only had wonderful parents? How long you been doing this unregistered?

My answer was too broad? Here: I'll be specific: If you are operating illegally as soon as you give a parent a NO they will use the fact that you are illegal against you.
Reply
Sugar Magnolia 09:25 PM 08-13-2011
I feel for you. You wanted to do the right thing, but you took a gamble and sadly something bad happened. I hope stuff works out for you, but hey now, illegal means its not legal and that's why there's.....well...a penalty of some sort to be paid. Unkind people exist and bad things happen to good people sometimes. I am pretty strongly opinionated on illegal operation of a child care being a very bad thing, but this just sounds like you're a case of avoidable hardship. I'm sorry that happened, but I think you'll be ok from reading the statute posted here. Peace. And what's your favorite tree? Mine is the Magnolia Welcome. And thanks for becoming compliant and legally approved.
Reply
Sugar Magnolia 09:37 PM 08-13-2011
Originally Posted by nannyde:
If you are operating illegally as soon as you give a parent a NO they will use the fact that you are illegal against you.
Oh and this too. The unkind, selfish people of the world can and will use DCF as a weapon and tool of harassment; a very harsh and bitter truth.
Reply
Unregistered 02:01 AM 08-14-2011
Originally Posted by nannyde:
Well at least you can give me that I was CORRECT on the last licensing conversation we had friend.

Are you suggesting that your parents don't have any way of finding out if you are registered without asking you? You don't use that to advertise?

You have only had wonderful parents? How long you been doing this unregistered?

My answer was too broad? Here: I'll be specific: If you are operating illegally as soon as you give a parent a NO they will use the fact that you are illegal against you.
I am responding to your questions even though we have not had any prior "licensing conversations" and I am not your friend. When I was not licensed, I was upfront and honest and told the parents. I did not need to advertise and it was strictly by referral and word of mouth only.

AND YES I did have WONDERFUL parents! I did this for 3 years before I became licensed. The parents did not care, but I did!

You are also VERY wrong in that, ANY disgruntled parent will call and complain to their licensing agency...being licensed makes no difference in this matter and I can say from experience that ANYTIME you tell a parent "NO" you run the risk of them doing this...operating Illegally has NO bearing on this whatsoever!
Reply
sahm1225 12:29 PM 08-14-2011
The mom might just be making empty threats to scare you into taking her daughter back. If she was unstable and kind of crazy, then I dont see her actually calling and following up on a complaint. .

I know of one provider who was shut down because of a complaint (she was running unlicensed. To her defense, our county takes almost 2 years to issue a license). The complaint actually got her her license quicker (1 year instead of the 2 years it took me!) But because she was on their radar, she was terrified of anything and everything during that time...

When they did the inspection/complaint visit, the representative was nice about it and told her that she was over her capacity and what she had to do. They gave her 2 days to notify all parents that she was closed.
Reply
Meeko 04:22 PM 08-14-2011
My answer was too broad? Here: I'll be specific: If you are operating illegally as soon as you give a parent a NO they will use the fact that you are illegal against you.[/quote]

This! Nannyde is bang on with this. A disgruntled parent IS going to do whatever they want to "get back" at a provider they are upset with. Illegal day care is just ammo for their use.

Now illegal is different from unlicensed. Don't mix the two. Many providers are unlicensed and yet operate within the law. But if you are illegal and the parent knows it......be prepared for fallout when things go south. It's a given.
Reply
Christian Mother 04:30 PM 08-14-2011
In the state of AZ you don't have to be lic. to own or operate a daycare. As long as you aren't being compensated for more then 4 kids after that you need to be lic. Everyone who's interviewed with me are just fine with me not being state ran. One family I took on asked at the interview if I was state lic. and I told them I was not and didn't plain on ever getting lic. She ran her own lic. daycare out of her home and now had to return back to work bc she lost all her kids due to the economy. It's never been a issue since. I know quite a few daycares in AZ who are not lic. and a lot of people perfer that both ways. I could still operate the way I am not if I decided later to go and get lic. it wouldn't be a problem. I think lic. would be happy to switch me over from unlic. to lic. I just plan on not ever get lic. I only care for 3 to 4 kids a day. I couldn't watch anymore then that....

Good luck Tree...you will find both criticism and praise here....best to just shrug it off and take the good with the bad. I don't think anyone really means you harm or anything like that just honesty. Shrug it off. This is a great place to learn and bounce ideals off. Not everyone agree with everyone. You'll find that we all generally love each other but we do fight amongst ourselves.
Reply
familyschoolcare 05:53 PM 08-14-2011
Originally Posted by Unregistered:
I am responding to your questions even though we have not had any prior "licensing conversations" and I am not your friend.
I think Nannyde was trying to be nice and polite by referring to you as a friend. Friendship has many levels and if you do not consider her a friend does that mean she is an enemy. Lighten up she was just being polite.
Reply
MamaBear 05:53 PM 08-14-2011
I'm a licensed daycare provider in California and I cant imagine operating without my license. Just the risk alone of being found caring for more than one family without the license & getting fined for EVERY day of care (@ $200 per day) is enough to scare me from doing that. That will cost a lot more than the money that is made during that period of time. I had my license guy come see me and clear me for licensing within a month because all of my paperwork was complete and good to go. I would just say be careful & wait for your license to clear! It's all done for good reasons. The licensing people dont mess around.
Reply
e.j. 07:41 PM 08-14-2011
Originally Posted by TheTree:
Now I have this sick feeling that licensing is going to show up at my door. But I have already applied I have everything ready. All I need is the inspection. I am wondering how bad it is going to be?

Also, I am worried that the DKM is going to create other problems. Being so new at this I am a little freaked. She threw a piece of folded up paper at my face after barging in my house. What am I exposing my family to?
What's done is done; not much you can do to change it now. Try not to lose sleep over what happened. There are some licensors who are very black and white in their thinking but most are reasonable human beings and will probably cut you some slack, especially since you've already set up a time to be inspected and are working toward being licensed.

I'm not in the same state as you are but our state's day cares are highly regulated. Like you, I started my day care just prior to applying for my license and stated that fact in the paperwork I submitted to the state. Although it is illegal to operate a day care in our state without a license, the licensor who came out to inspect my home never said a word about me operating without a license. He inspected my home, said I had a great set-up and granted me the license. That was just about 16 years ago.

I also spoke with someone who had been operating for years without a license and was recently reported by someone anonymously. Licensing went to her home, explained that she would need a license to continue to operate. They walked her through the process and she's now licensed. (She did have to close until she got her license, but otherwise, there were no major repercussions.)

I'm not advocating that anyone operate without a license. If you're supposed to have one, you should have one. I'm just saying that as long as you're working toward it, which you were, it may not be a huge deal. Just explain the situation if you get a call or visit. You may find that the licensor is reasonable to work with.

As far as what you may be exposing your family to...... well, anytime you work with the public and invite them into your home, you take on a certain amount of risk. If you can get clients by word of mouth, it helps to limit that risk somewhat. If you have to set up an interview, be sure to have your husband or another adult in the house so you're not alone. Go with your gut; if a family doesn't feel right, don't take them on. The more experience you gain, the easier it gets to weed out the crazies before they become your problem. Good luck.
Reply
Lucy 08:59 PM 08-14-2011
Originally Posted by TheTree:
If I understand you correctly you are saying I deserved to have someone storm into my home with my own children here and have them act the way they did because I offered care for her child with out a license. That suggests that by having a license your childcare is some how safer, better. What does a license really do? They don't monitor your care. They don't monitor your contracts or your menu's or your schedules. My neighbor has had a licensed daycare for 5 years and they just came to her house for the first time a month ago they were there for one hour. They checked to make sure she wasn't over capacity, that she had proper paper work. That was it. How does that have anything to do with the types of parents you get.

I was hoping for more help on how to handle scary dcm's & dcd's but I can see I am only going to be made to feel less than. Really nice forum.
Don't judge the forum on a couple bad replies. This is a great resource. We're not all like that.
Reply
Unregistered 09:09 PM 08-14-2011
Originally Posted by familyschoolcare:
I think Nannyde was trying to be nice and polite by referring to you as a friend. Friendship has many levels and if you do not consider her a friend does that mean she is an enemy. Lighten up she was just being polite.
Sorry I have read her posts and she was NOT being nice or polite! Who are you kidding!?! She was being self righteous and condescending!

I agree with Mama Bear and unfortunately doing daycare in your home, does open you up to the public and negative circumstances. Listen to you instincts and if a parent or child is causing red flags then term them ASAP.
Reply
GretasLittleFriends 10:29 PM 08-14-2011
In Minnesota I could only care for one family at a time without being licensed. It took FOREVER to get my license. It was over a year, and to no fault of my own. Our county is small, and my licensor had things that kept coming up. My hubby suggested that I call the licensors supervisor and explain that it would be much cheaper for the county and the state to come do my interview/inspection than it would for our family to go on welfare. At times just before I got my license I was thinking I would actually have to go fill out those forms. Needless to say, I got my inspection, and my license. Less than two weeks later I had several more kids enrolled. I had two mom's waiting for me to get my license.

Waiting sucks, and trying to be self-sufficient can be very difficult...

Difficult parents, I have no advice.
Reply
familyschoolcare 10:41 PM 08-14-2011
Originally Posted by Unregistered:
Sorry I have read her posts and she was NOT being nice or polite! Who are you kidding!?! She was being self righteous and condescending!
I find it interesting that when Nannyde speaks/writes her mind and gives her honest opinion based on her years of day care experience people find her to be self righteous and condescending. But when other people do the same thing nothing is said/written about them. Just wondering what is up with that.

I do not find her to come off any or less self righteous, condescending or any other negative word than some of the other people on the forum but yet she is the only one people seam to call out on it.
Reply
Unregistered 12:24 AM 08-15-2011
It seems like a part time pair of twins and an infant, plus your own four is not crossing the line for private care. I am also not sure I would knock it. I think you might consider charging a bit more and staying private. My good friend just made 170.00 caring for two little ones in LA for one day. The idea that being "legal" makes you money is a good one if you want to max a ratio. The idea that better parents will follow the paper is just plain wrong. Better paying parents are more interested in a smaller ratio, which is more often a private arrangement. Its kind of the difference between day care and child care.
Reply
Former Teacher 04:18 AM 08-15-2011
Originally Posted by familyschoolcare:
I find it interesting that when Nannyde speaks/writes her mind and gives her honest opinion based on her years of day care experience people find her to be self righteous and condescending. But when other people do the same thing nothing is said/written about them. Just wondering what is up with that.

I do not find her to come off any or less self righteous, condescending or any other negative word than some of the other people on the forum but yet she is the only one people seam to call out on it.
And the people WHO do, are always the unregistered ones

Don't feed the trolls
Reply
mac60 04:45 AM 08-15-2011
It is my understanding that in some states, while you are waiting months and months and sometimes 1 to 2 years to get licensed or registered, you can care for children legally because you are in the process. Because sometimes the county/gov't just drags their ass and do not do things in a timely manner. Not everyone can wait the county out for months and years before they bring in an income.
Reply
familyschoolcare 08:13 AM 08-15-2011
Originally Posted by Former Teacher:
And the people WHO do, are always the unregistered ones

Don't feed the trolls
I had not notice that I will have to pay more attention
Reply
Blackcat31 09:20 AM 08-15-2011
OP~ You broke the law. period. It really doesn't matter what your reasons were. If providing childcare for x amount of children without a license is illegal then you will be faced with the possiblity of being punished. It doesn't matter how safe or unsafe you were being. It doesn't matter how well you did or didn't care for the children. If you were operating illegally, then it was against the law. Why is this part so hard to understand?

Say you took all the required driving courses and tests but just didn't go get your actual drivers license with your photo and paid the fee to do so and still drove a car. If you got pulled over, you would get a ticket for driving without a license. Doesn't matter how safe or knowledgeable you were/are. It is illegal.

I also waited almost 6 months to get my license. I didn't start providing care for anyone until I actually got my license I had my whole (separate) house ready and continued to pay the mortgage and bills there even without any kids. Why? Because I wasn't willing to break the law!

In order to feed my own children I took another job knowing full well I would quit as soon as my daycare license arrived. I did what I needed to do to pay my bills and feed my kids WIHTOUT being illegal.

As for the mom who turned you in, it happens. Licensed or not, you will run into your fair share of parents who will report you for whatever they feel when termed. It happens. licensed or not. This parent was just the one who let the cat out of the bag. If you hadn't been operating illegally, this would have been a completely different scenario.

IMPO, if you were willing to break the law because you felt validated enough to do so, it says alot about your character in general.
Reply
dEHmom 12:05 PM 08-15-2011
with regards to the comment about unlicensed being bad, unsafe or whatever else was stated.

Being unlicensed doesn't mean you'll get the bad parents. But being unlicensed in a state where you are required to be licensed, quite possibly could. They know full well that a license is required and choose to put their child in an illegal daycare, that tells me bad parents. Knowing that you will be getting your licensed anytime might change that opinion a little bit.

I am sorry to hear that you are going through this op, and I hope it all works out well for you. I am unlicensed, but I am not required to be licensed. I also have great parents.

As for how bad it will be when/if she calls licensing, I cannot offer advice on that as I do not know. Hopefully the things she said were just threats in an attempt to get back at you. She broke your rules, she is the lesser of the 2 by acting so immaturely. It's always better and will always get you farther to remain calm, and mature, and she did not do that. I wish you well.
Reply
Sally 12:16 PM 08-15-2011
I hope you can ignore some of the negative responses, there are licensed providers that are jealous of the other ones; licensed or not. Believe me, you will get those parents REGARDLESS of the type of daycare you run. In fact, it boils down to taking good precautions and SCREENING them throughly. I've done this many many years, but I look them up on every network available to me. Facebook, PPL search, county records ect. before I even do the interview. After that, go by your instincts and if they seem like they are going to be trouble don't pick them up because it won't be worth it. If you are really strict about about screening them, that will make all the difference.

At this point just chalk it up to one of those learning experiences. Either way your fine, because you could end up deciding to watch a few kids privately. But Good luck and hang in there!
Reply
Unregistered 12:24 PM 08-15-2011
Originally Posted by TheTree:
If I understand you correctly you are saying I deserved to have someone storm into my home with my own children here and have them act the way they did because I offered care for her child with out a license. That suggests that by having a license your childcare is some how safer, better. What does a license really do? They don't monitor your care. They don't monitor your contracts or your menu's or your schedules. My neighbor has had a licensed daycare for 5 years and they just came to her house for the first time a month ago they were there for one hour. They checked to make sure she wasn't over capacity, that she had proper paper work. That was it. How does that have anything to do with the types of parents you get.

I was hoping for more help on how to handle scary dcm's & dcd's but I can see I am only going to be made to feel less than. Really nice forum.
Oh ya alot of people on this forum think they are better then everyone else. She can report you all she wants alls you have to say is the children you are watching you are not getting paid for and there is NOTHING they can do at all.
Reply
Sugar Magnolia 12:32 PM 08-15-2011
Sally, I think if you read the replies closely, you will find that just about no one was saying unlicensed is "bad", as long as your state says you are not required to be licensed. Illegal is not the same as unlicensed, and the OP admitted it was, in fact, illegal in her state. We are a supportive group, but its hard to support illegal. Many are unlicensed, and that's just fine. No one would imply that unlicensed providers are bad providers. But Tree is becoming legal, and there was widespread support for her doing that.
Reply
daycare 12:46 PM 08-15-2011
Originally Posted by Sugar Magnolia:
Sally, I think if you read the replies closely, you will find that just about no one was saying unlicensed is "bad", as long as your state says you are not required to be licensed. Illegal is not the same as unlicensed, and the OP admitted it was, in fact, illegal in her state. We are a supportive group, but its hard to support illegal. Many are unlicensed, and that's just fine. No one would imply that unlicensed providers are bad providers. But Tree is becoming legal, and there was widespread support for her doing that.
That was a great way to word it.


The thing is that you were doing something that is against the law. In California, they make it very clear in the orientation what the consequences are should you not follow the rules. They even tell you that you cannot operate without a License.
Usually you won't get good quality people who are willing to participate in breaking the law. In the state of California, you can only care for one family at a time without having a proper lic.

I don't think anyone meant that you get bad people when you don't have a lic. I think they just meant that if you are doing something illegal and you get people to participate in an illegal activity/business you are not going to get the best of quality of people in it. I really am sorry to hear this and hope that things don’t get blown out of proportion by this mother.
Best of luck to you….
Reply
MyAngels 12:58 PM 08-15-2011
Originally Posted by Unregistered:
Oh ya alot of people on this forum think they are better then everyone else. She can report you all she wants alls you have to say is the children you are watching you are not getting paid for and there is NOTHING they can do at all.
So you would have her compound the problem by not only lying herself, but have her ask her current daycare parents to lie as well? That's bad advice, no matter how you look at it.
Reply
Cat Herder 01:07 PM 08-15-2011
My take on it...

Illegal Daycare = Parents who have no/less moral/ethical problems with Illegal activities and like/need the lower rates this offers. The actual quality of care varies.

Unlicensed Daycare = People who have checked out the rules/regs and LIKE the lower ratios, less Government interference and lower rates this offers. The actual quality of care varies.

Licensed Daycare = People who know they will pay more but will have more government oversight, stricter standards, random inspections and more resources available. The actual quality of care varies.

The main point, I guess, is that OP gambled and lost this hand. I do hope it does not stop her from getting her license...it very well may.
Reply
Sally 01:24 PM 08-15-2011
Originally Posted by Unregistered:
I do not agree with anyone deserving this! I also don't agree that being unlicensed means you are setting yourself up to take on horrible clients like this. I was not licensed when I first started my daycare and had excellent and considerate families. One family had both parents whom were doctors and they scrutinized everything, but were extremely happy! The interesting thing was that many parents didn't even care. They knew that being licensed didn't really ensure the quality of care their child was receiving. Look how many states don't even require a license for a certain number of kids in a person's care! I'm not saying its okay to break the law and not follow regulations, but I also don't think anyone who is merely waiting to get things finalized has crossed the line and deserves this type of feedback.

I can only speak for myself but I get a lot of kids that come from TT, KC, ect. The parents realize that there are too many kids and they are not being watched properly. Whereas I work with a small group, and have good references. So there are many parents that realize having a license does not make a good provider.

I'm legal but could care a less if someone babysits in a state that requires a license. Thats too much government control, and I believe its more to do with getting their taxes than protecting children. Especially in CA.
Reply
Crystal 01:39 PM 08-15-2011
Tree......relax and try not to worry too much.

I am in California. I am very familiar with the regulations and how licensing operates, so I am going to share what I know with you.

It is likely you will get a visit from licensing. Licening is required to investigate any allegation within 72 hours for non-emergency and 36 for emergency violation. They are going to tell you that you have to stop caring for the children immediately, until you are licensed. If you comply with that, they will not likely fine you and you will still have your licensing inspection. It is in your best interest to not care for the children any longer, until you have your license. I would inform the parents of the children enrolled today, you may lose them....but if they value your services they will likely find an alternate person to care for their children temporarily. If you meet all licensing regs on the day of your inspection for licensure, you can begin caring for children immediately.....you don't have to wait for your license to come in the mail. So, your parents would only need to find care for the next two weeks.

Now, all of that applies UNLESS the children you are caring for right now do not attend together. If you have two families enrolled and the children from family one attend three part time days and the child from family two attend two OTHER part time days, then that is okay.

If that is the case, you'll need to show your contracts to licensing when they show up to investigate. The contracts should list the days and times the children are in care.

Be honest and tell them that you were caring for the child from the other family as well, but you terminated services for that family which resulted in you being in compliance.
Reply
sharlan 01:44 PM 08-15-2011
Originally Posted by Unregistered:
Oh ya alot of people on this forum think they are better then everyone else. She can report you all she wants alls you have to say is the children you are watching you are not getting paid for and there is NOTHING they can do at all.
WOW! This is the best advice I've seen yet, NOT! Lying to DSS, under any circumstances, is not a good idea.

I don't really think that anybody thinks they're better than everyone else. We all have different life experiences that make us on way or another. Everyone has a different way of explaining themselves. I'm "wordy" at times, others are more factual, cut and dried.
Reply
Michelle 02:12 PM 08-15-2011
You will be fined $200 every day that you had more than one family in care.
So, just tell them you operated illegally only for the days that your part time came so you won't be fined so much. I would never operate with out a license!
I know it takes a while but it's not worth it!

What county are you in?
Reply
Crystal 02:23 PM 08-15-2011
102357 OPERATION WITHOUT A LICENSE 102357
(a) If the Department has reason to believe that family child care is being provided without a license, the
licensing agency shall:
(1) Conduct a site visit to:
(A) Determine whether the home is operating without a license.
(B) Determine whether continued operation of the facility will be dangerous to the health
and safety of the children in care.
(2) Notify the unlicensed provider in writing of the requirements for such licensure.
(3) Issue a Notice of Operation in Violation of Law if it is found and documented that continued
operation of the family child care home will be dangerous to the health and safety of the children.

Situations endangering the health and safety of the children shall include, but not be limited to:
(A) Evidence of physical or mental abuse.
(B) Children left unattended or left with a minor.
(C) Clear evidence of unsanitary conditions.
(D) Fire safety/fire hazards.
(E) Unfenced or accessible pools or other bodies of water.
(F) Hazardous physical plant.
(4) Issue a Notice of Operation in Violation of Law if the unlicensed provider does not apply for a license within 15 working days from the date of notification.

102357 OPERATION WITHOUT A LICENSE (Continued) 102357
(b) The Department shall have the authority to issue an immediate civil penalty pursuant to Section 102393
and Section 1596.891 of the Health and Safety Code which provides:
(1) A person who violates Section 1596.80 of the Health and Safety Code may be liable for an
immediate assessment of civil penalties in the amount of two hundred dollars ($200) per day.
(2) The penalty specified in Section 102357(b)(1) shall be imposed if the operator of an unlicensedfacility refuses to seek licensure or the operator seeks licensure and is denied but continues to
operate.

(c) Section 102357 shall be applied pursuant to Section 1596.892 of the Health and Safety Code.
NOTE: Authority cited: Section 1596.81, Health and Safety Code. Reference: Sections 1596.80, 1596.81(b),
1596.890, 1596.891, 1596.892 and 1597.61, Health and Safety Code
Reply
Tags:fines, illegal providers, inspection, inspection - unannounced, termination, termination - gone bad
Reply Up