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Daycare Center and Family Home Forum>Do You Ever Have To Hold Kids Down?
heather 12:02 PM 11-20-2012
Like at nap time or changing time?
Or do you pick them up when it's time to go but they don't come?
I had a 2 1/2 yr old start last week who's not very good at listening, I hate to hold a child that old against their will but I really would not be able to get him out the door or back in again without picking him up. Or get his shoes on, diaper changed, or to stay on his sleep mat... I had to hold him on the mat today at nap time, only for about 5 seconds but I felt bad about it... however he got the point and he really needed the rest.
Is that what everyone else does or is there some secret I don't know about??
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daycare 12:09 PM 11-20-2012
Originally Posted by heather:
Like at nap time or changing time?
Or do you pick them up when it's time to go but they don't come?
I had a 2 1/2 yr old start last week who's not very good at listening, I hate to hold a child that old against their will but I really would not be able to get him out the door or back in again without picking him up. Or get his shoes on, diaper changed, or to stay on his sleep mat... I had to hold him on the mat today at nap time, only for about 5 seconds but I felt bad about it... however he got the point and he really needed the rest.
Is that what everyone else does or is there some secret I don't know about??
I honestly would not care for a child with that behavior, but why not just get a pack and play for nap times??
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SunshineMama 12:17 PM 11-20-2012
I have never had to hold a child down. Aside from keeping a squirming 6-7 month old from falling off a diaper changing table, I think that holding a child down can send the wrong message, and can be viewed by others as very harsh. I would try other behavior modification techniques first. For example, find a way to make putting shoes on fun. Maybe sing a little song or something. As far as getting up at naptime, as soon as they get up you lay them back down. It may take a few (hundred) times of going through this (it gets better each day), but it is a gentle approach that still conveys respect for the child while getting your point across. 2.5 year olds really are into testing boundries consistency will get your point across, but it may take a little longer than you want.
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itlw8 01:28 PM 11-20-2012
pick up yes, hold down never

I give them the evil eye and they lay back down
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daycare 01:35 PM 11-20-2012
Originally Posted by itlw8:
pick up yes, hold down never

I give them the evil eye and they lay back down
yes I am very good at the evil eye too..

One day one of my DCG started to cry on her way to my house. Her mom asked whats wrong. DCG said I don't want Miss X to look at me. So DCM puzzled asked me why doesnt DCG want you to look at her. (BTW she was a very naughty little girl)

I started to laugh and said because I got so tired of telling her NOT to do things that now I just give her the evil eye and she stops dead in her tracks./.

DCM begged me to teach her how I give the evil eye...
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Crystal 01:35 PM 11-20-2012
Um. No. And you shouldn't hold him down on the mat either.
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SilverSabre25 01:48 PM 11-20-2012
I have one right now (young toddler) that has always hated diaper changes and tends to get nasty rashes, and yes I do usually have to pin him so I can clean him up. Otherwise he would never get changed and would thrash and get poo everywhere.

I do have to sometimes pick up a child (again, usually younger toddler but occasionally an older child) who isn't coming when I need them to for some reason--time to go in, time to go out, need to have a private chat, etc.
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LK5kids 01:50 PM 11-20-2012
PIck up to come in, yes.


During nap.....no.
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Blackcat31 01:51 PM 11-20-2012
Originally Posted by heather:
Like at nap time or changing time?
Or do you pick them up when it's time to go but they don't come?
I had a 2 1/2 yr old start last week who's not very good at listening, I hate to hold a child that old against their will but I really would not be able to get him out the door or back in again without picking him up. Or get his shoes on, diaper changed, or to stay on his sleep mat... I had to hold him on the mat today at nap time, only for about 5 seconds but I felt bad about it... however he got the point and he really needed the rest.
Is that what everyone else does or is there some secret I don't know about??
I haven't had to hold anyone down but I have had to put them back on their nap mats at least 1,532,946 times during nap before they got the point and stayed put.
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daycare 01:57 PM 11-20-2012
Originally Posted by Blackcat31:
I haven't had to hold anyone down but I have had to put them back on their nap mats at least 1,532,946 times during nap before they got the point and stayed put.
as hard as it is I hate to say it, but BC is right.....

put them back on their nap mats at least 1,532,946 times during nap before they got the point and stayed put.

when I transition from PNP to nap mat this is normally what happens..
another thing I would do is maybe sit and rub their back until they fell asleep

you can turn it from a battle to a game..

another thing you can try is giving choices.

DCB would you like to put your shoes on or would you like me to put your shoes on??? either way its getting done and he has a say in it, or so he thinks
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Lyss 04:49 PM 11-20-2012
Pick up- Yes
Hold down- no... but I've seen it done. I worked in a center, in a 2yr old class, and we had a very squirmy DCB that the head teacher would hold down by laying her leg across his legs while holding his shoulder down with one hand and patting his back with the other at nap time Which she learned from another teacher in the threes room... This center also used rice tubes, they reminded me of draft guards for door/windows that they would lay across the backs of kids that had a hard time stay still. They weren't that heavy but the idea of being pinned down freaks me out so I could imagine how the kids felt! I only lasted 4 months there.
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shelby 04:57 PM 11-20-2012
Originally Posted by Lyss:
Pick up- Yes
Hold down- no... but I've seen it done. I worked in a center, in a 2yr old class, and we had a very squirmy DCB that the head teacher would hold down by laying her leg across his legs while holding his shoulder down with one hand and patting his back with the other at nap time Which she learned from another teacher in the threes room... This center also used rice tubes, they reminded me of draft guards for door/windows that they would lay across the backs of kids that had a hard time stay still. They weren't that heavy but the idea of being pinned down freaks me out so i didn't like that they did that. That and a few other issues were why I only lasted 4 months there.
I've see that happen too.. which is why I will never work at a center again. My dcb has not been sleeping for the last two days, so what I have done is every time he gets up, I just tell him no, its night , night time and tell him to lay down in my I mean it voice.. finally after 45 mins of this.. He fell asleep...

YOu will just have to make them know you mean business..
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Willow 05:01 PM 11-20-2012
Unless you've been trained how to properly restrain a child and have a legal reason and right to do so I'd say you're treading on some pretty thin liability ice.

As a parent, if I ever heard someone pinned my child down during nap, I'd sue the living crap out of them....after a very blunt and angry verbal confrontation to boot.
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EntropyControlSpecialist 05:12 PM 11-20-2012
No. But, I have had to guide them a million times back to their cot in silence and lay the blanket on top of their back again. After a week of this, they usually understand that nothing fun comes out of them getting off of their cot.
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Crystal 06:45 PM 11-20-2012
Originally Posted by Willow:
Unless you've been trained how to properly restrain a child and have a legal reason and right to do so I'd say you're treading on some pretty thin liability ice.

As a parent, if I ever heard someone pinned my child down during nap, I'd sue the living crap out of them....after a very blunt and angry verbal confrontation to boot.
Yuuuuup!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Naptime stuff with (some) providers really *^$$&$ me off. If you cannot deal with a toddler or preschooler getting up and having to put them back down (even if it is over and over and over) without getting "physical" about it, then you should not be caring for children.

And, yes, indeed, if ever I found that a provider held my child down on a napmat, in any way, shape or form, for one second or one minute....well, lets just say the provider would likely be finding herself held down as well.
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Solandia 07:26 AM 11-21-2012
Originally Posted by Crystal:
Yuuuuup!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Naptime stuff with (some) providers really *^$$&$ me off. If you cannot deal with a toddler or preschooler getting up and having to put them back down (even if it is over and over and over) without getting "physical" about it, then you should not be caring for children.

And, yes, indeed, if ever I found that a provider held my child down on a napmat, in any way, shape or form, for one second or one minute....well, lets just say the provider would likely be finding herself held down as well.
But! what if the child needs physical (hard touches) to calm down? I had a dcb who absolutely needs something heavy on him to relax. Like 2-3 heavy quilts would do it. Think almost swaddling a toddler. That was my alternative to..... His easiest way to fall asleep was to have mom lay partially on top of him/hold him down and/or restrain him. He would "protest" for about 30 sec and then fall into a deep sleep for 2.5 hrs. Obviously, I didn't do that, but it would have made naptime so much easier for everyone involved. Sometimes a hard backrub/massage would work as well.

At first glance it was restraining, but the alternative was this child never getting relaxed enough to the sleep that he had to have to function.

99% of my kids I would use backrub/arm rub and shushing to get to sleep. And in a way, even a light backrub is a form of "getting physical"/holding them down to indicate to the child they must lay down to sleep.
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SilverSabre25 07:28 AM 11-21-2012
Originally Posted by Solandia:
But! what if the child needs physical (hard touches) to calm down? I had a dcb who absolutely needs something heavy on him to relax. Like 2-3 heavy quilts would do it. Think almost swaddling a toddler. That was my alternative to..... His easiest way to fall asleep was to have mom lay partially on top of him/hold him down and/or restrain him. He would "protest" for about 30 sec and then fall into a deep sleep for 2.5 hrs. Obviously, I didn't do that, but it would have made naptime so much easier for everyone involved. Sometimes a hard backrub/massage would work as well.

At first glance it was restraining, but the alternative was this child never getting relaxed enough to the sleep that he had to have to function.
THAT is indicative of a sensory processing problem; that is not a typical need, but one that many children and even adults with sensory issues have. Not saying it was WRONG--it was good that you and mom had solutions to get him to go to sleep. I'm just saying that it's a child with some atypical sensory needs
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Crystal 07:29 AM 11-21-2012
Originally Posted by Solandia:
But! what if the child needs physical (hard touches) to calm down? I had a dcb who absolutely needs something heavy on him to relax. Like 2-3 heavy quilts would do it. Think almost swaddling a toddler. That was my alternative to..... His easiest way to fall asleep was to have mom lay partially on top of him/hold him down and/or restrain him. He would "protest" for about 30 sec and then fall into a deep sleep for 2.5 hrs. Obviously, I didn't do that, but it would have made naptime so much easier for everyone involved. Sometimes a hard backrub/massage would work as well.

At first glance it was restraining, but the alternative was this child never getting relaxed enough to the sleep that he had to have to function.

99% of my kids I would use backrub/arm rub and shushing to get to sleep. And in a way, even a light backrub is a form of "getting physical"/holding them down to indicate to the child they must lay down to sleep.
I would say that is completely different than what the OP is talking about, and if I were to have such a child, there would be a "medical plan" on file, from a medical professional, that indicated such measures were neccessary. A couple of quilts to calm a child with special needs is a big difference than holding a child down on a mat because they refuse to lay down.
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daycare 07:32 AM 11-21-2012
what happened to the OP??

I wanted to say that I hope you get enough ideas from all the ladies here to help you through this issue.

Our job is ever changing and posses new obstacles each and every day. Honestly, if it were not for this form, I would have closed down about a year ago.

Please take the advice you want, and leave the advice you don't. I am sure that you can gain some good knowledge from the people here.

Have you talked with the parents and ask how they deal with the child??
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Heidi 07:37 AM 11-21-2012
Originally Posted by Crystal:
I would say that is completely different than what the OP is talking about, and if I were to have such a child, there would be a "medical plan" on file, from a medical professional, that indicated such measures were neccessary. A couple of quilts to calm a child with special needs is a big difference than holding a child down on a mat because they refuse to lay down.
Perhaps Heather might try that blanket technique. Even if there is no diagnosis, it may do the trick, and it's not in the same ballpark as the holding thing, IMO.

Heather-I am sure you are just trying to figure out what will work, but I'm guessing it feels "wrong" because you asked. I've had to put a hand on a child's back for a few moments in the past, but no longer than a few seconds. More a firm touch and and a bit of back rubbing than a "hold", and with soothing words to accompany it.


As far as picking them up to "make" them do something...I'm more likely to take their hand and guide them firmly than actually pick them up (if they can walk). Then I guide them through the task, and thank them for their cooperation (even if it was minimal). THis is called "guided compliance", and it totally ok, IMO. Usually, if you do this when they are toddlers, by the time they a little older, they get it-that you mean what you say and you expect them to listen.
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Blackcat31 07:39 AM 11-21-2012
Personally, I would like to hear from the OP a little more clarification as to what she means by holding him down.

Seems some are thinking like physically restraining a flailing fighting child against his will and others are thinking something like placing a hand on his back etc so he knows not to get up....

I am confused as to the level of restraint she (OP) means when she says "hold".

I am surprised a couple members here haven't asked for more details or further explaination about the situation.

I am also surprised that they haven't offered an alternative or a supportive solution for the OP's issue or problem rather than immediate criticism

We don't know the routine, the provider, the child or any other details beside what LITTLE she has said so I am kind of suprised at the harsh reactions posted here.
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daycare 07:43 AM 11-21-2012
Originally Posted by Blackcat31:
Personally, I would like to hear from the OP a little more clarification as to what she means by holding him down.

Seems some are thinking like physically restraining a flailing fighting child against his will and others are thinking something like placing a hand on his back etc so he knows not to get up....

I am confused as to the level of restraint she (OP) means when she says "hold".

I am surprised a couple members here haven't asked for more details or further explaination about the situation.

I am also surprised that they haven't offered an alternative or a supportive solution for the OP's issue or problem rather than immediate criticism

We don't know the routine, the provider, the child or any other details beside what LITTLE she has said so I am kind of suprised at the harsh reactions posted here.
Trust me when I say I was taken back at first, but then I had to realize that we are reading between the lines here and only know a portion of this whole story.

Great post BC....
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crazydaycarelady 07:49 AM 11-21-2012
I have held a child down at naptime. By holding I mean the child was laying on their tunny covered with a blanket and I put my hand on their back as a gentle reminder that they are to stay laying down and go to sleep. This seems to calm them and when they hold still for a mintue or two they relax and go to sleep. I have also used a heavy blanket to do the same thing. Not all children need this of course but every once in awhile you get one who fights laying still.
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Crystal 09:19 AM 11-21-2012
Originally Posted by Blackcat31:
Personally, I would like to hear from the OP a little more clarification as to what she means by holding him down.

Seems some are thinking like physically restraining a flailing fighting child against his will and others are thinking something like placing a hand on his back etc so he knows not to get up....

I am confused as to the level of restraint she (OP) means when she says "hold".

I am surprised a couple members here haven't asked for more details or further explaination about the situation.

I am also surprised that they haven't offered an alternative or a supportive solution for the OP's issue or problem rather than immediate criticism

We don't know the routine, the provider, the child or any other details beside what LITTLE she has said so I am kind of suprised at the harsh reactions posted here.
Well, she said she had to hold him down against his will and that she felt bad about it......SO, I would take that to mean that she physically held him down to get her point across that he had to lay down.....as she said "he got the point"

I think she gave plenty of information to for me to draw that conclusion, hence my response.

My advice was, as previously stated, "If you cannot deal with a toddler or preschooler getting up and having to put them back down (even if it is over and over and over) without getting "physical" about it, then you should not be caring for children. " and I stand by that.
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Blackcat31 09:28 AM 11-21-2012
Originally Posted by Crystal:
Well, she said she had to hold him down against his will and that she felt bad about it......SO, I would take that to mean that she physically held him down to get her point across that he had to lay down.....as she said "he got the point"

I think she gave plenty of information to for me to draw that conclusion, hence my response.

My advice was, as previously stated, "If you cannot deal with a toddler or preschooler getting up and having to put them back down (even if it is over and over and over) without getting "physical" about it, then you should not be caring for children. " and I stand by that.
NOT saying I don't agree with you but I do think the OP should clarify or further explain.

She did give some info but I still feel like it isn't enough and although she said hold him down, she did say only for a few seconds, so that leads me to believe that it couldn't have been an all out fight with a resisting kid....kwim?

I was also thinking that rather than come down hard on a provider for seeking help, we should have tried to offer some support or something to help her deal properly with the situation. What if she doesn't come back to the forum and continues to try to deal on her own in an improper manner or maybe what could have been a learning situation for the provider now becomes a dangerous situation for all....kwim?

I guess because some people do not express themselves clearly in text and/or use different words than maybe you or I would have chosen, I just figured that it would a much clearer scenario if OP added some more info about the situation.
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daycare 09:37 AM 11-21-2012
Originally Posted by Blackcat31:
NOT saying I don't agree with you but I do think the OP should clarify or further explain.

She did give some info but I still feel like it isn't enough and although she said hold him down, she did say only for a few seconds, so that leads me to believe that it couldn't have been an all out fight with a resisting kid....kwim?

I was also thinking that rather than come down hard on a provider for seeking help, we should have tried to offer some support or something to help her deal properly with the situation. What if she doesn't come back to the forum and continues to try to deal on her own in an improper manner or maybe what could have been a learning situation for the provider now becomes a dangerous situation for all....kwim?

I guess because some people do not express themselves clearly in text and/or use different words than maybe you or I would have chosen, I just figured that it would a much clearer scenario if OP added some more info about the situation.
Sorry, but I have to agree with BC..

I do agree with you Crystal, but I doubt that the OP will come back because people felt the need to voice their opinion on it rather than offer support and advice for her to FIX the situation.

I feel that a lot of times people tend to throw our their opinions about how Providers do it wrong, and in the end they feel horrible about it.

Why not just offer up some helpful advice to her instead..

Willow and Crystal, the two of you have some of the best advice on here, but you are both very opinionated people. WHICH is awesome, but like BC said now this OP may never come back due to getting slammed instead of getting some really useful advice.

I guess I could say that we all could be helpful instead of hurtful..... Or you can ignore me and just still post your opinions......lol
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Country Kids 09:40 AM 11-21-2012
Please remember she is also from another country. I'm sure there laws are nothing like here. If we can't get 50 states to agree, I'm sure other countries won't be like our laws (what ever state you are from).

I'm not saying holding a child down is correct. I'm saddened though because I see posters on here asking questions and everyone assumes the worst from them. That is one thing bad about the computor-you can't tell from expressions what the person means. I really hope she comes back because I have also seen new providers ask a question, get jumped on and they never, ever come back.

She said she did it for 5 seconds! There is no way you could "hold" a child down for 5 seconds. I'm thinking she meant maybe putting her hand on his back or something.

Please think before typing back a response for someone. Just because someone does not do it like you would does not mean they are a bad provider. I'm starting to see on here from more providers that if you don't do it a certain way you aren't doing it correctly. Or they saying they have never had parents do this/that because they don't allow it. Also, if anyone tries something different with a child it is considered abuse!

We have a wonderful group here and come here for support. No one is above anyone and even when someone is typing their own opinion, it can come across wrong. Please think carefully when typing back and please, please,please read the original post carefully because sometimes we miss things and go by what we read, not what was typed.

Sorry for this being long, but I really want people to feel support here, not judgement.
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Willow 09:58 AM 11-21-2012
Originally Posted by daycare:
Wbut like BC said now this OP may never come back due to getting slammed instead of getting some really useful advice.

I guess I could say that we all could be helpful instead of hurtful..... Or you can ignore me and just still post your opinions......lol

My dilemma is this....

If someone comes up admitting they did X and I view that response as abusive I'm going to stay something about it. In a very strong way. I cannot speak for Crystal but I can tell you on this thread I DID hold back in an attempt not to drive the OP away. There was much much more I felt and wanted to say, believe me..... A provider doing such a thing however does need to realize, and in a very real way, that what they did was not ok. That it was dangerous even. Do you know how many children in the school systems alone who have been improperly restrained and died? You don't have to go to extremes to do serious physical or mental harm to a child in that situation, even inadvertently. The thought makes me beyond angry and in most cases it's an illegal maneuver.

If someone came in and said they were whapping kids with yard sticks to get them to lay down for nap would you feel inclined to gloss over your feelings?

Would you be concerned about hurting Jessica Tata's feelings if she come here and read everything that's been said about her?

It's all on the same page of extremely inappropriate and dangerous conduct to me.


I am friends with a family right now who is suing a school district and it's bus company because a bus driver wrongfully restrained their son. Didn't hurt him (physically anyway, mentally is a whole 'nother story), just restrained him when he wasn't trained to nor had the legal right to do so and continued to even when mom was standing RIGHT THERE and recording it all on her phone. They just did an interview with Dateline and it is set to make national news. The bus driver lost his job immediately and will likely never be able to find work with kids again. That was his life and his livelihood and now it's gone in a flash because he made a poor choice.


I do not feel inclined to soften my words when it comes to the biggies regarding safety and the liabilities of the actions of a person in charge of kids.


All that said I'll agree to disagree and leave this and any of OP's related threads alone from here on out.
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Country Kids 10:03 AM 11-21-2012
Daycare it looks like you and I were posting at the same time!
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daycare 10:04 AM 11-21-2012
Originally Posted by Willow:
My dilemma is this....

If someone comes up admitting they did X and I view that response as abusive I'm going to stay something about it. In a very strong way. I cannot speak for Crystal but I can tell you on this thread I DID hold back in an attempt not to drive the OP away. There was much much more I felt and wanted to say, believe me..... A provider doing such a thing however does need to realize, and in a very real way, that what they did was not ok. That it was dangerous even. Do you know how many children in the school systems alone who have been improperly restrained and died? You don't have to go to extremes to do serious physical or mental harm to a child in that situation, even inadvertently. The thought makes me beyond angry and in most cases it's an illegal maneuver.

If someone came in and said they were whapping kids with yard sticks to get them to lay down for nap would you feel inclined to gloss over your feelings?

Would you be concerned about hurting Jessica Tata's feelings if she come here and read everything that's been said about her?

It's all on the same page of extremely inappropriate and dangerous conduct to me.


I am friends with a family right now who is suing a school district and it's bus company because a bus driver wrongfully restrained their son. Didn't hurt him (physically anyway, mentally is a whole 'nother story), just restrained him when he wasn't trained to nor had the legal right to do so and continued to even when mom was standing RIGHT THERE and recording it all on her phone. They just did an interview with Dateline and it is set to make national news. The bus driver lost his job immediately and will likely never be able to find work with kids again. That was his life and his livelihood and now it's gone in a flash because he made a poor choice.


I do not feel inclined to soften my words when it comes to the biggies regarding safety and the liabilities of the actions of a person in charge of kids.


All that said I'll agree to disagree and leave this and any of OP's related threads alone from here on out.
I hear what you are saying, but I think that you are comparing apples to oranges here....

What I do see is someone seeking HELP...

If a dug attic came to you and asked for help would you slam them and tell them what they are doing is illegal and immoral?? NO, you would help them..

I see this very similar, yet not the same.

This person came looking for help.....Yes, you can tell them please don't do that anymore, that it is not ok to do it and they will risk being in trouble.

I won't tell you how to use your words, all that I am saying is that sometimes words come across the wrong way (thanks computer) scaring people off instead of getting them the MUCH needed help that they are seeking...

Think about it....If you came and asked for help, would you want to be belittled for doing something wrong, or would you want the help that you were looking for.....

It's all how you say it that matters......

It's like saying please look with your eyes only instead of saying DOn't touch that!!!!!

it makes a huge difference
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Willow 10:19 AM 11-21-2012
I hate Dr. Phil....but a good example......

Mothers go to the show looking for help after they've used cold showers, hot sauce, humiliation, degradation and extreme physical exercise as punishments for their small children.

Does the audience give them a pat on the back in encouragement or a collective gasp in shock and a bit of horror? And does the parent's desire to seek help relieve them of any legal responsibility for their previous actions?

I think it's great if someone wants to learn better ways to cope, especially in regards to their interactions with their children, but that new intent doesn't necessarily excuse them from the knee jerk angry reaction many humans many feel towards what's been practiced in the past.


Being honest and realistic is far more helpful than giving a false impression that could lead to higher likelihood that the behavior will be repeated.


Frankly, I am beyond shocked that many here are disgusted and horrified by a parent who mentions all of the art projects her child is bringing home is a bit much.....but want to let this, something that could do real physical and mental harm to the child, slide.
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Crystal 10:22 AM 11-21-2012
Originally Posted by Willow:
I hate Dr. Phil....but a good example......

Mothers go to the show looking for help after they've used cold showers, hot sauce, humiliation, degradation and extreme physical exercise as punishments for their small children.

Does the audience give them a pat on the back in encouragement or a collective gasp in shock and a bit of horror? And does the parent's desire to seek help relieve them of any legal responsibility for their previous actions?

I think it's great if someone wants to learn better ways to cope, especially in regards to their interactions with their children, but that new intent doesn't necessarily excuse them from the knee jerk angry reaction many humans many feel towards what's been practiced in the past.


Being honest and realistic is far more helpful than giving a false impression that could lead to higher likelihood that the behavior will be repeated.


Frankly, I am beyond shocked that many here are disgusted and horrified by a parent who mentions all of the art projects her child is bringing home is a bit much.....but want to let this, something that could do real physical and mental harm to the child, slide.
I totally agree. Especially with the bolded part.
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daycare 10:24 AM 11-21-2012
Originally Posted by Willow:
I hate Dr. Phil....but a good example......

Mothers go to the show looking for help after they've used cold showers, hot sauce, humiliation, degradation and extreme physical exercise as punishments for their small children.

Does the audience give them a pat on the back in encouragement or a collective gasp in shock and a bit of horror? And does the parent's desire to seek help relieve them of any legal responsibility for their previous actions?

I think it's great if someone wants to learn better ways to cope, especially in regards to their interactions with their children, but that new intent doesn't necessarily excuse them from the knee jerk angry reaction many humans many feel towards what's been practiced in the past.


Being honest and realistic is far more helpful than giving a false impression that could lead to higher likelihood that the behavior will be repeated.


Frankly, I am beyond shocked that many here are disgusted and horrified by a parent who mentions all of the art projects her child is bringing home is a bit much.....but want to let this, something that could do real physical and mental harm to the child, slide.
by no means do I say to let it slide......

Willow you are VERY brilliant and have GREAT knowledge when it comes to early education with children...... Is it possible for you to look at this from a TEACHERS prospective than a judgmental one?

I am not saying that I don't agree with you, but as BC and I had stated, we need to hear the person out, ask more questions and get them the help that they need.

THis PERSON OBVIOUSLY needs help......now they may not get that much needed help due to being cyber screamed at for their actions....
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daycare 10:28 AM 11-21-2012
I want to add this....

Frankly, I am disappointed to see two people that are beyond intelligent and some of the most educated on here put someone down instead of helping them.

I guess I am just upset about that and I am voicing it!!!


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Blackcat31 10:29 AM 11-21-2012
I agree that the response to physically restraining and holding down a fighting, flailing child should be harsh and no words/feelings should be held back, HOWEVER that was exactly why I was asking for the OP to clarify.

Set the stage for me, tell me how EXACTLY you were "holding" him down. Was he screaming and fighting or was it something completely different?

I asked for clarification.

I asked for more details so I could give advice or share my unhappiness at any type of physical method of controlling a child but without further explaination, I didn't feel it was supportive or effective to simply bash the OP.
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Country Kids 10:35 AM 11-21-2012
Originally Posted by Blackcat31:
I agree that the response to physically restraining and holding down a fighting, flailing child should be harsh and no words/feelings should be held back, HOWEVER that was exactly why I was asking for the OP to clarify.

Set the stage for me, tell me how EXACTLY you were "holding" him down. Was he screaming and fighting or was it something completely different?

I asked for clarification.

I asked for more details so I could give advice or share my unhappiness at any type of physical method of controlling a child but without further explaination, I didn't feel it was supportive or effective to simply bash the OP.
We may never know-
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heather 01:47 PM 11-21-2012
Hello everyone and thank you for all the suggestions.
What I meant by holding DCK down at nap time, I probably should have said that I replaced him to his mat, and made him lay down, while rubbing his chest and whispering to him.
Yes, i did briefly hold him so that he knew he had to stay there. Had he seemed genuinely scared or upset I would not have held him. I do not want to be big bad or scary, I just needed him to lie down so the other kids could go to sleep. I was laying next to him the whole time and he had freedom of movement on his mat ie to roll over. I think he knew that if he would try to get up I would put him back again. My DS was on the other side of me and I also had to put him back a couple of times and make him lay down.
I wanted lots of ideas so maybe I made the tone of my title a bit controversial so that lots of you would read it and pitch in with your opinions. Thank you for your input.
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Blackcat31 02:22 PM 11-21-2012
Originally Posted by heather:
Hello everyone and thank you for all the suggestions.
What I meant by holding DCK down at nap time, I probably should have said that I replaced him to his mat, and made him lay down, while rubbing his chest and whispering to him.
Yes, i did briefly hold him so that he knew he had to stay there. Had he seemed genuinely scared or upset I would not have held him. I do not want to be big bad or scary, I just needed him to lie down so the other kids could go to sleep. I was laying next to him the whole time and he had freedom of movement on his mat ie to roll over. I think he knew that if he would try to get up I would put him back again. My DS was on the other side of me and I also had to put him back a couple of times and make him lay down.
I wanted lots of ideas so maybe I made the tone of my title a bit controversial so that lots of you would read it and pitch in with your opinions. Thank you for your input.
Thank you for clarifying that! I think what you did and how you did it is not at all out of line. It doesn't sound like you were physically restraining anyone in a "bad" or negative way.

Again, thanks for clarifying and I do hope this little guy learns to nap easily for you in the from now on.
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Crystal 02:32 PM 11-21-2012
Heather, can you tell me, if the way you describe holding him down is accurate, why did you feel bad about it? Originally you describe it as holding him down, now you describe it as lovingly holding him. Which is it? Honestly....if it is the way you most recently described it, then there would be no reason to feel badly, which causes me to question if you are being honest about it or just wanted to ensure other providers aren't questioning your ethics. I could be completely wrong, and if I am I apologize, but it just seems odd to me.

And, as you said you did....why would you intentionally make your post controversial? As you can see, all that did was create 1. anger from some of us who vehemently disagree with restraining a child in the way you originally described and 2. those of us who expressed our anger being berated by a couple of mods.

For future reference, it would be greatly appreciated (by me at least) if you were more clear and not intentionally stirring controversy. If not, then I suppose there will be more of the drama that occurred here today
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Willow 02:47 PM 11-21-2012
Originally Posted by Crystal:
Heather, can you tell me, if the way you describe holding him down is accurate, why did you feel bad about it? Originally you describe it as holding him down, now you describe it as lovingly holding him. Which is it? Honestly....if it is the way you most recently described it, then there would be no reason to feel badly, which causes me to question if you are being honest about it or just wanted to ensure other providers aren't questioning your ethics. I could be completely wrong, and if I am I apologize, but it just seems odd to me.

And, as you said you did....why would you intentionally make your post controversial? As you can see, all that did was create 1. anger from some of us who vehemently disagree with restraining a child in the way you originally described and 2. those of us who expressed our anger being berated by a couple of mods.

For future reference, it would be greatly appreciated (by me at least) if you were more clear and not intentionally stirring controversy. If not, then I suppose there will be more of the drama that occurred here today

Word........
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Blackcat31 02:48 PM 11-21-2012
Originally Posted by Crystal:
and 2. those of us who expressed our anger being berated by a couple of mods.
fwiw~ I was in NO way berating you or anyone. I only asked OP for more explanation or clarification. I didn't call anyone out nor did I point fingers at anyone. You know I am more diplomatic than that.

Personally, I simply felt that the OP didn't offer enough details to make a call one way or another so I asked for more.

I would and do agree 100% with you if the "holding" was a physical restraint in a mean, cruel, humiliating or overly authoritive manner which I was unsure of due to the short original post.

I also did not see what you are now picking up as far as intentional pot stirring (it's been a long day ) but you are correct about that as well, IF the OP was intentionally being vague to simply stir the pot and cause drama, that was not cool.

But if she wanted to start a discussion on the various methods, tips and tricks that providers use to get kids to nap, she definitely could have done it in a more proactive and postive manner.

Either way, I appreciate the clarification and think that she wasn't out of line if her explaination is truthful.
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Crystal 02:54 PM 11-21-2012
BC....call it what you want. I felt you and Daycare were berating us......as you posted your feelings about it more than once, stated we "bashed" the OP, Daycare stated her "disappointment" in us.......whatever.
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Willow 03:03 PM 11-21-2012
I actually don't mind what either said.....

It was their right to speak their mind just as I felt it was my right to speak up about something I thought was really really not ok.


I'm not offended or bothered, except at the notion that this was blown up intentionally to get people's goats....

Obviously if a provider is lovingly holding a child that's one thing and completely fine. To peg it holding a kid down however just to get people talking (ie upset) I agree with BC is uncool.
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Blackcat31 03:21 PM 11-21-2012
Originally Posted by Crystal:
BC....call it what you want. I felt you and Daycare were berating us......as you posted your feelings about it more than once, stated we "bashed" the OP, Daycare stated her "disappointment" in us.......whatever.
What I said was: "I asked for more details so I could give advice or share my unhappiness at any type of physical method of controlling a child but without further explaination, I didn't feel it was supportive or effective to simply bash the OP." which does not at all say anything other than how I felt and what I would do and why. I clearly used the word "I" as in me, not you or anyone else.

Apologies if you felt as though I was berating you. I was not. Either way, you are entitled to your opinion, as am I.

But I just wanted to make it clear that berating you was not my intention.
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heather 12:16 AM 11-22-2012
Originally Posted by :
Heather, can you tell me, if the way you describe holding him down is accurate, why did you feel bad about it? Originally you describe it as holding him down, now you describe it as lovingly holding him. Which is it? Honestly....if it is the way you most recently described it, then there would be no reason to feel badly, which causes me to question if you are being honest about it or just wanted to ensure other providers aren't questioning your ethics. I could be completely wrong, and if I am I apologize, but it just seems odd to me.
Crystal, I think the main thing for me, is not this one nap time example that you all have picked up on, but the title I wrote in general: where is it ok to physically restrain, hold down or pick up a child and at what age?

It's interesting for me that many of you responded negatively to the words "hold down". I find it more positive to hold a child to me, than to push them away (ie in a pack and play). If you are going to take the meaning of the word in a negative or abusive way, then I suppose I would ask "What constitutes holding down?"

I did and still do feel awful about having to put--and momentarily hold--the DCK onto the sleep mat. Yes I was rubbing his back and whispering to him to create a calm and safe atmosphere. One of the children was already asleep. I don't know what I would do differently next time but your comments are all helpful and give me plenty to think about. Perhaps I could move him a bit slower towards the mat leading with his hand, like one PP said, while talking to him and giving him more time to choose to cooperate. He calmed down right away and did not get up again even though I was no longer holding him. The next day he also behaved at nap time. Which tells me that maybe this child needs something like this:

Originally Posted by :
As far as picking them up to "make" them do something...I'm more likely to take their hand and guide them firmly than actually pick them up (if they can walk). Then I guide them through the task, and thank them for their cooperation (even if it was minimal). THis is called "guided compliance", and it totally ok, IMO. Usually, if you do this when they are toddlers, by the time they a little older, they get it-that you mean what you say and you expect them to listen.
In fact I think this describes what I have been doing with him intuitively and what most of us do automatically with our own children. As PP says normally an older toddler does not need this any more thus could be why I don't feel comfortable with it? After a couple of days he is now listening better and I don't need to pick him up to go outside every time. He is still not sitting down with us at meal times (He doesn't eat while he is here) but I can see the living room where he is playing, from our dining room so I decided to let that be his choice. He has never had a problem with being changed thankfully but I know that many children do.
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heather 12:20 AM 11-22-2012
Originally Posted by :
IF the OP was intentionally being vague to simply stir the pot and cause drama, that was not cool.

But if she wanted to start a discussion on the various methods, tips and tricks that providers use to get kids to nap, she definitely could have done it in a more proactive and postive manner.
I'm really sorry but I dont see what was sooooo controversial about my post. I chose a title which I thought would be clear and to the point. Many of you understood my use of the words"hold down" in an abusive way, which I didn't mean at all so I apologize if this was misunderstood. In my original post I don't think I wrote anything to make people think I had abused a child? I merely was asking where the limits are.
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Crystal 08:23 AM 11-22-2012
Heather,

Thank you so much for the clarification and for not taking my "words" as a personal attack on you. I just get really upset when I hear what may be considered "abusive practices" when working with children and I apologize for jumping to that conclusion with you.

I do not think what you have described is wrong in any way. Holding a child (in your arms) or rubbing his back is a perfectly acceptable practice in helping a young child calm down enough to rest.

With the going inside/outside situation, as well as any other situation like that, I use "Limited Choice" .....I would say " Johnny, you have a choice, you can go inside with the rest of your friends on your own, or I can help you by (insert action here...pick up and carry, hold hand and walk in together, etc)" Pause briefly giving him time to respond and then, if he doesn't comply, follow through with the action. EVERY. SINGLE. TIME. This way, he will quickly learn, I can happily go along with my friends, or I can be made to do what I have been asked to do......he will soon decide that he wants to do things the way his friends do. Just make sure you state the "choice" every time, so he knows when he hears those words, what to expect.

Best wishes to you!
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heather 03:56 AM 11-23-2012
is there a moderator still reading this? I would appreciate it if the many inappropriate comments could be removed, or better yet if the whole thread could be deleted.
I posted a question asking childcare workers to share their experiences as to whether they sometimes need to physically restrain/ pick up/ hold down children. I assumed that it was evident that this is sometimes necessary for the child's safety and well being when the child refuses to cooperate and that any childcare worker would do this in an appropriate and caring manner after trying to reason with the child and offer him the choice to do it himself. And that childcare workers would only do this in cases where the child's safety or the wellbeing of the other children was in question.

I am grateful for those of you that assumed I was well meaning and responded helpfully to my question. Others of you apparently have a deep rooted mistrust in human nature and (mis)read way more between the lines than was written.

I did not intend to start a discussion on what consitutes child abuse nor was I looking for negative comments directed at the DCK, who is in general a pleasure to work with. (see the first posting made by daycare) I also do not want to discuss further details about DCK since I have signed a privacy agreement with the family, I only mentioned him briefly to explain why I was interested in the topic.

I would be absolutely appalled if the family of DCK would log on to here and read these comments about children being restrained in schools and dying or about lawsuits. These comments have nothing to do with me but they could be extremely damaging. Many of the comments are very graphic and could be upsetting to a parent to read. What if other parents decided to browse on this forum and read these comments, how does that build trust in our profession? This is supposed to be a forum for support and in the future the moderators should make sure that all the comments are supportive both towards the person posting and the child that is being cared for. Or if the original posting is inappropriate or too vague then it should have been removed as soon as the conversation got out of hand.
Thank you for your understanding.
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Willow 06:09 AM 11-23-2012
Originally Posted by heather:
where is it ok to physically restrain, hold down or pick up a child and at what age?
In response to your original question of holding down, where is is ok to hold down a child and at what age?

Never is the answer.

As far as I know it's at the very least against rules and regulations (at worst against the law) *unless* a licensed provider, teacher or other in charge of children are professionally trained in appropriate holds and have the ability to distinguish when it's appropriate to use them.

The uproar has to do with being educated on how a hold can go very very wrong very very fast. As in, can only take seconds to do irreparable harm.

Originally Posted by heather:
It's interesting for me that many of you responded negatively to the words "hold down". I find it more positive to hold a child to me, than to push them away (ie in a pack and play). If you are going to take the meaning of the word in a negative or abusive way, then I suppose I would ask "What constitutes holding down?"
Holding down - any situation where you physically "hold down" the child against their will. Not hold a leg on the changing table, not hold a hand if they're inclined to go out into the street....but rather applying force downward upon the child's body to restrain and restrict them from movement.

BTW - My alternative to that isn't to "push the kids in my care away" for any reason. I encourage and TEACH them better behaviors rather than physically forcing compliance with my body. Pack and plays are used for sleep and sleep only as is required by most of the country, they are not to be used for punishment purposes or as a management tool for a child who is out of control.


Short of really rare and extreme situations "holding down a child" isn't a method that should ever have to be utilized. Certainly not a typical home daycare setting. If it came down to that for me I'd be calling the parents and letting them know their child was too out of control to be safely dealt with and needed to be picked up. I'd likely suggest some sort of upper level therapeutic care setting with more qualified caregivers for them instead.
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countrymom 06:23 AM 11-23-2012
heather, I completely understand what you are saying. I have seen lots of people hold children down at centers, for saftey reasons and for comfort and for relaxation. I'm shocked that the minute someone said "hold down" you all assumed the worst.

I bet you she had to hold him on her lap to calm him down, some kids are just like this and there is nothing you can do. Gee nothing like making someone feel bad. And why do someone posters only answer when there is something negative written. I never see some posters ever post positive things, only when there is something negative or when there is drama.
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Willow 10:56 AM 11-23-2012
Originally Posted by countrymom:
heather, I completely understand what you are saying. I have seen lots of people hold children down at centers, for saftey reasons and for comfort and for relaxation. I'm shocked that the minute someone said "hold down" you all assumed the worst.

I bet you she had to hold him on her lap to calm him down, some kids are just like this and there is nothing you can do. Gee nothing like making someone feel bad. And why do someone posters only answer when there is something negative written. I never see some posters ever post positive things, only when there is something negative or when there is drama.

If you're referring to me you can address me directly in pm.

Your personal attack is not at all relevant to what is being discussed here and is really inappropriate and incredibly rude.
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countrymom 04:13 PM 11-23-2012
Originally Posted by Willow:
If you're referring to me you can address me directly in pm.

Your personal attack is not at all relevant to what is being discussed here and is really inappropriate and incredibly rude.
funny how you think its you, I never mentioned one persons name, I never quoted anyone I never single out anyone. So if your reading this and you think its you then thats your problem not mine.
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Blackcat31 07:27 AM 11-24-2012
Originally Posted by heather:
is there a moderator still reading this? I would appreciate it if the many inappropriate comments could be removed, or better yet if the whole thread could be deleted.
I posted a question asking childcare workers to share their experiences as to whether they sometimes need to physically restrain/ pick up/ hold down children. I assumed that it was evident that this is sometimes necessary for the child's safety and well being when the child refuses to cooperate and that any childcare worker would do this in an appropriate and caring manner after trying to reason with the child and offer him the choice to do it himself. And that childcare workers would only do this in cases where the child's safety or the wellbeing of the other children was in question.

I am grateful for those of you that assumed I was well meaning and responded helpfully to my question. Others of you apparently have a deep rooted mistrust in human nature and (mis)read way more between the lines than was written.

I did not intend to start a discussion on what consitutes child abuse nor was I looking for negative comments directed at the DCK, who is in general a pleasure to work with. (see the first posting made by daycare) I also do not want to discuss further details about DCK since I have signed a privacy agreement with the family, I only mentioned him briefly to explain why I was interested in the topic.

I would be absolutely appalled if the family of DCK would log on to here and read these comments about children being restrained in schools and dying or about lawsuits. These comments have nothing to do with me but they could be extremely damaging. Many of the comments are very graphic and could be upsetting to a parent to read. What if other parents decided to browse on this forum and read these comments, how does that build trust in our profession? This is supposed to be a forum for support and in the future the moderators should make sure that all the comments are supportive both towards the person posting and the child that is being cared for. Or if the original posting is inappropriate or too vague then it should have been removed as soon as the conversation got out of hand.
Thank you for your understanding.
Heather, while I completely understand why you might want the thread removed/deleted, it is against forum rules to remove or delete any posts or threads.

Admin likes to leave ALL threads/posts so that users (both current and future) can search for and find relevant information that may pertain to an issue or situation they may be experiencing.

I also understand your concern about a DCF possibly finding the thread and reading. This is a common concern. Because this is an open forum, the only advice I can offer in this regard is to maybe PM Michael and request that the entire thread be moved to the Off-Topic section where only registered members can view it. I know that doesn't solve the issue entirely, but it is the only solution I think is available.

In the future, a couple of things you can do to protect your identity as well as those of your DCF's is to post solely in the off-topic section or change any identifying but non-necessary details about the family and/or situation. Other than that, I don't think there is anything else you can do.

fwiw~ I don't think that any family reading what you wrote would be upset at how you handled the situation and I don't think you did anything wrong.

As for those posts/replies you think were unsupportive, taken out of context or blown out of proportion, you need to remember that the posts on this forum are interpreted in hundreds of different ways and from hundreds of different perspectives so there is always going to be a word, a phrase or a situation that is misconstrued or misunderstood or taken in and out of context by it's members.

It doesn't mean you or they did anything wrong or are mistaken in the way they perceive things. It only means that they are applying what you wrote, said and posted from their viewpoints. Thus making "conversation" and multiple posts to further explain necessary and relevant to the discussion.

I am sorry that you feel as though some members took things differently than what you meant, but without being in your shoes or understanding 100% EXACTLY what you meant, it is difficult not to let how one personally feels not impact their thoughts, suggesstions, reactions and words within their posts.

Rarely are situations or issues posted solved or "fixed" with only a couple responses. Several replies, as well as hundreds of different perspectives are often necessary before an OP feels as though he/she has ALL the information they need to make a clear, well thought out decision or has all the tools to implement a plan if action for the issue/problem.

Again, I am sorry if the thread did not go in the direction you had intended and that it did not include your ideal responses or suggestions but when sharing with people from all over the world, that is common and should be expected.

I am glad you reached out for solutions and I am glad that you were able to find one that worked for you.
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Willow 09:47 AM 11-24-2012
Edited....nevermind lol
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Sugar Magnolia 10:14 AM 11-24-2012
None of this is funny, not even remotely. As usual, there is much drama centered around semantics. Yes, the OP used language that led many of us, myself included, to believe she was "holding DOWN", not simply "holding" this child. I think we can all agree that holding down is not ok. Holding and comforting is fine. Nuff said, I think.
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daycaremum 06:36 PM 11-29-2012
Originally Posted by Crystal:
Well, she said she had to hold him down against his will and that she felt bad about it......SO, I would take that to mean that she physically held him down to get her point across that he had to lay down.....as she said "he got the point"

I think she gave plenty of information to for me to draw that conclusion, hence my response.

My advice was, as previously stated, "If you cannot deal with a toddler or preschooler getting up and having to put them back down (even if it is over and over and over) without getting "physical" about it, then you should not be caring for children. " and I stand by that.

Just like you stated Crystal, "SO, I would take that to mean...." It is your interpretation of what she has said. When I read it the first time what jumped out at me was she said she held him down for "like 5 seconds". I would tell her she did nothing wrong. I have worked in centres and it is common practice to "hold" children down. If one child keeps getting out of bed in a room of 16 sleepers, it is mighty disruptive. It is done gently, usually a hand on the back. The OP likely isn't coming back because of the negative response she has gotten. I too would like more information, before jumping all over her. Like I said, I don't think she did anything wrong. You on the other hand are judging her based on a very short description of what she did.
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daycaremum 06:45 PM 11-29-2012
Originally Posted by Crystal:
Heather, can you tell me, if the way you describe holding him down is accurate, why did you feel bad about it? Originally you describe it as holding him down, now you describe it as lovingly holding him. Which is it? Honestly....if it is the way you most recently described it, then there would be no reason to feel badly, which causes me to question if you are being honest about it or just wanted to ensure other providers aren't questioning your ethics. I could be completely wrong, and if I am I apologize, but it just seems odd to me.

And, as you said you did....why would you intentionally make your post controversial? As you can see, all that did was create 1. anger from some of us who vehemently disagree with restraining a child in the way you originally described and 2. those of us who expressed our anger being berated by a couple of mods.

For future reference, it would be greatly appreciated (by me at least) if you were more clear and not intentionally stirring controversy. If not, then I suppose there will be more of the drama that occurred here today
After I posted my last entry I continued to read and saw that the OP came back to explain herself and this is the response you gave her. I don't think she was trying to "intentionally" stir up controversy. She likely quickly posted, and didn't come back for a while to read all the controversy that occurred at the hands of all of us! Crystal, do you own this site? It sounds like you do, or you think you do, you have no right to demand that the OP be more clear with future posts. This is your opinion. I thought she was clear enough for me, I didn't think she did anything wrong from the get-go. I'm genuinely shocked at how you are treating the OP. Just my 2 cents.
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Crystal 07:45 PM 11-29-2012
Hahahaha! This is laughable.

Really? you are going to come back to something that has already been resolved, with the OP NEVER having an issue with my posts.....she was actually quite nice to "talk" to.....and berate me? Whatever
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daycare 07:53 PM 11-29-2012

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mom2many 09:27 PM 11-29-2012
Originally Posted by daycare:

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country girl 05:52 AM 11-30-2012
Originally Posted by Crystal:
Hahahaha! This is laughable.

Really? you are going to come back to something that has already been resolved, with the OP NEVER having an issue with my posts.....she was actually quite nice to "talk" to.....and berate me? Whatever
Pretty sure she was just voicing her opinion Crystal, after all everyone is entitled to one. Isn't that what forums are for??? Something tells me if she had agreed with everything you had said you wouldn't have a problem with her "coming back" to it.

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Crystal 07:10 AM 11-30-2012
LOL! Hey, tell ya what. If it makes ya'll feel better to come here and attempt to start controversy, knock yourselves out! I on the other hand will be enjoying my day in a more positive light. Good day
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daycaremum 07:16 AM 11-30-2012
Yes, I thought everyone was entitled to their opinion and was allowed to post. I only read the thread last night and felt I was also "allowed" to post. Again, you seem to think you are in charge or something. I wasn't trying to stir things up. Just getting out my two cents on the topic and on how you handled it. Sorry I didn't respond in a timely enough manner for your liking, but I don't sit her all day waiting for a chance to respond as soon as a post is made. Also, the OP did take issue with many comments made, as per her request to have the negative posts removed. I'm happy for you if you had a lovely conversation with her privately, I am only responding to what is written on this thread. Funny how everyone's perspective of what is going on and being said can be so different. Anyways, I reserve my right to post when and how I so choose.
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Crystal 07:33 AM 11-30-2012
Oh my I never implied that you cannot post. Please, do, post freely. In fact, if you click on my username you can find ALL of my posts if you'd like to reply to those as well! Enjoy
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Blackcat31 07:41 AM 11-30-2012



I am guesiing it is time to close this thread again.

.....but just for the record, everyone IS entitled to their opinion.
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daycare 07:56 AM 11-30-2012
Originally Posted by Blackcat31:



I am guesiing it is time to close this thread again.

.....but just for the record, everyone IS entitled to their opinion.
don't kill my only entertainment............lol

just kidding.......

But on the serious note, I do hope that it does not spiral out of control.
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Crystal 08:05 AM 11-30-2012
Originally Posted by daycare:
don't kill my only entertainment............lol

just kidding.......

But on the serious note, I do hope that it does not spiral out of control.
No kidding. This is VERY entertaining. I have been LMAO all morning!

No reason for it to spiral out of control. I am not taking anything personally, even though it is meant to be personal
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daycaremum 08:13 AM 11-30-2012
Crystal. I have no interest in reading your comments on other threads. I was referring to this thread only.
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Crystal 08:22 AM 11-30-2012
Originally Posted by daycaremum:
No thank you Crystal. I have no interest in reading your comments on other threads. I was referring to this thread only.
You're welcome.
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tenderhearts 08:44 AM 11-30-2012
I wish I could see your evil eye, because whenever I give my evil eye, it doesn't work with the 2 yr old boy I have lol...
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Unregistered 07:36 PM 11-30-2012
Originally Posted by Crystal:
No kidding. This is VERY entertaining. I have been LMAO all morning!

No reason for it to spiral out of control. I am not taking anything personally, even though it is meant to be personal
Were you really LMAO all morning over this thread? I don't find the content of this thread funny, Crystal. It's actually not a laughing matter at all.
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Crystal 12:16 PM 12-01-2012
Originally Posted by Unregistered:
Were you really LMAO all morning over this thread? I don't find the content of this thread funny, Crystal. It's actually not a laughing matter at all.
Haha! Even funnier that you wasted your time scolding me again! Hope you are enjoying your weekend
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MyAngels 05:09 PM 12-01-2012
Gosh, what's the deal with relatively new members of the forum blasting a long standing member like Crystal?

I would think you might want to get to know the other members a bit first (and let them get to know you, too) before taking such a harsh tone.
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MizzCheryl 02:46 PM 12-02-2012
Originally Posted by Crystal:
Well, she said she had to hold him down against his will and that she felt bad about it......SO, I would take that to mean that she physically held him down to get her point across that he had to lay down.....as she said "he got the point"

I think she gave plenty of information to for me to draw that conclusion, hence my response.

My advice was, as previously stated, "If you cannot deal with a toddler or preschooler getting up and having to put them back down (even if it is over and over and over) without getting "physical" about it, then you should not be caring for children. " and I stand by that.
WOW attitudes like that are what make so many providers apprehensive about seeking support on this board.
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Crystal 07:32 PM 12-02-2012
Originally Posted by Clueless:
WOW attitudes like that are what make so many providers apprehensive about seeking support on this board.
Attitudes like what? What is my attitude like?
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Hunni Bee 08:32 PM 12-02-2012
Originally Posted by MyAngels:
Gosh, what's the deal with relatively new members of the forum blasting a long standing member like Crystal?

I would think you might want to get to know the other members a bit first (and let them get to know you, too) before taking such a harsh tone.
I think it has something to do with it being winter and people looking for entertainment, so they incite needless drama. They also reply to ancient threads and confuse everybody .
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