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Daycare Center and Family Home Forum>CA - I Called Licensing to Ask A Question About Bleach
MarinaVanessa 12:00 PM 02-27-2012
I remember when I went to my orientation before becoming licensed that one of the things that was covered was about cleaning. We were told to make a bleach/water solution to disinfect surfaces and that it must be made daily in order for it to work properly as well as being told that "natural" disinfectants were not yet approved for cleaning in childcare.

Today I called licensing because I wanted to know WHY the bleach/water solution had to be made daily (as in what happens to the solution to make it less potent). I just really wanted to know and do you know what I was told?!?!

I was told that in CA that we aren't required to use any particular cleaning supplies to disinfect anything including toys . We can use whatever we wanted and that the bleach/water solution thing was from CDR (Child Development Resources). I told her that I was confused and told her about my licensing orientation and she said that CDR staff conducts the orientations in my area. "It's a CDR thing" were her exact words.

So anyway, I just thought I'd share. I'm now going to pack up my bleach and am converting to either homemade or natural disinfectant.
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daycare 12:05 PM 02-27-2012
Originally Posted by MarinaVanessa:
I remember when I went to my orientation before becoming licensed that one of the things that was covered was about cleaning. We were told to make a bleach/water solution to disinfect surfaces and that it must be made daily in order for it to work properly as well as being told that "natural" disinfectants were not yet approved for cleaning in childcare.

Today I called licensing because I wanted to know WHY the bleach/water solution had to be made daily (as in what happens to the solution to make it less potent). I just really wanted to know and do you know what I was told?!?!

I was told that in CA that we aren't required to use any particular cleaning supplies to disinfect anything including toys . We can use whatever we wanted and that the bleach/water solution thing was from CDR (Child Development Resources). I told her that I was confused and told her about my licensing orientation and she said that CDR staff conducts the orientations in my area. "It's a CDR thing" were her exact words.

So anyway, I just thought I'd share. I'm now going to pack up my bleach and am converting to either homemade or natural disinfectant.
UGGGHHH I hate calling the DOD...... I call sometimes to ask questions and I get different answers depending on who I talk to.

I got an email a few months back from the county health coordinator that was covering this very topic. The email was introducing new environmental friendly cleaning agents. Her final closing in the email stated that they are NOT approved for center or HDC use and that we have to continue the bleach water solution.

I have been told this before too just as you were......Just to talk to someone else who told me no, you have to use the bleach water solution....lol

I just use the mix.....lol

Way too much grey area in our darn rules
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AmyLeigh 12:17 PM 02-27-2012
Thanks for clarifying. I have been looking in the reg's and have not found anything written down. Now I know why!
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MarinaVanessa 12:19 PM 02-27-2012
Originally Posted by daycare:

I just use the mix.....lol

Way too much grey area in our darn rules
I know what you mean. Bleach just won't work for me when the kids are here. It's so hard on the nose . On top of that I have granite countertops. Do you know what happens when you disinfect granite with bleach? It etches it all up and scratches it. I use rubbing alcohol on those no matter what. Fine or no fine.

I should have asked for it in writing. I'm calling her back
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daycare 12:27 PM 02-27-2012
Originally Posted by MarinaVanessa:
I know what you mean. Bleach just won't work for me when the kids are here. It's so hard on the nose . On top of that I have granite countertops. Do you know what happens when you disinfect granite with bleach? It etches it all up and scratches it. I use rubbing alcohol on those no matter what. Fine or no fine.

I should have asked for it in writing. I'm calling her back
I ask for an email address and then ask my questions via email so I get them in wrirting..
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spud912 12:37 PM 02-27-2012
I'm not in California but I can tell you that I used to be a regulator and bleach loses its concentration over time and the only way to ensure the proper concentration is to make it fresh at least once a day (or more depending on your circumstances). When you test the concentration of "bleach," you are actually testing for the correct chlorine bonds. The things that mainly affect the chlorine bonds are temperature, bacteria/viruses, and other minerals in the water. Chemically speaking, the bonds break and form other bonds, causing the chlorine to not be effective when attempting to kill bacteria and viruses.

Chlorine is the only sure-fire way to kill norovirus on surfaces (the most common culprit of the "stomach flu"). Otherwise, ammonia-based sanitizers (like Lysol or 99% of other bleach-free sanitizers) are effective against many other bacteria/viruses, but they just won't kill off norovirus.

In the kitchen I use ammonia-based sanitizers unless someone who has been in the kitchen came down with noro-like symptoms. In the playroom and bathroom, I use chlorine-based sanitizers. Basically, anywhere that may come into contact with feces gets chlorine.
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MarinaVanessa 12:56 PM 02-27-2012
Originally Posted by spud912:
I'm not in California but I can tell you that I used to be a regulator and bleach loses its concentration over time and the only way to ensure the proper concentration is to make it fresh at least once a day (or more depending on your circumstances). When you test the concentration of "bleach," you are actually testing for the correct chlorine bonds. The things that mainly affect the chlorine bonds are temperature, bacteria/viruses, and other minerals in the water. Chemically speaking, the bonds break and form other bonds, causing the chlorine to not be effective when attempting to kill bacteria and viruses.

Chlorine is the only sure-fire way to kill norovirus on surfaces (the most common culprit of the "stomach flu"). Otherwise, ammonia-based sanitizers (like Lysol or 99% of other bleach-free sanitizers) are effective against many other bacteria/viruses, but they just won't kill off norovirus.

In the kitchen I use ammonia-based sanitizers unless someone who has been in the kitchen came down with noro-like symptoms. In the playroom and bathroom, I use chlorine-based sanitizers. Basically, anywhere that may come into contact with feces gets chlorine.
So what do I do about my countertops? Chlorine and ammonia etch the surface and the only recommended non-abrasive disinfectant that I know of is rubbing alcohol. That won't do the job?
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spud912 01:08 PM 02-27-2012
Originally Posted by MarinaVanessa:
So what do I do about my countertops? Chlorine and ammonia etch the surface and the only recommended non-abrasive disinfectant that I know of is rubbing alcohol. That won't do the job?
I definitely understand, that was an argument we always had. I personally would just use what you are currently using unless licensing says otherwise. I've had children vomit on my carpet before and I did not sanitize with bleach (obviously....I don't want camouflage white/brown carpets). I just clean it to the best of my ability, sanitize with something that doesn't ruin the surface, and hope that (1) it wasn't noro and (2) nobody catches what caused the vomiting. Unless somebody smears feces, vomits, or touches everything in the kitchen (while experiencing symptoms of vomiting/diarrhea/low-grade fever), then I think you're fine. If any of those do happen, then I'm sure the one-time use of chlorine won't affect the counters too much (whereas carpets/upholstery, not so much).
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AmyLeigh 10:52 AM 02-28-2012
Originally Posted by spud912:
I'm not in California but I can tell you that I used to be a regulator and bleach loses its concentration over time and the only way to ensure the proper concentration is to make it fresh at least once a day (or more depending on your circumstances). When you test the concentration of "bleach," you are actually testing for the correct chlorine bonds. The things that mainly affect the chlorine bonds are temperature, bacteria/viruses, and other minerals in the water. Chemically speaking, the bonds break and form other bonds, causing the chlorine to not be effective when attempting to kill bacteria and viruses.

Chlorine is the only sure-fire way to kill norovirus on surfaces (the most common culprit of the "stomach flu"). Otherwise, ammonia-based sanitizers (like Lysol or 99% of other bleach-free sanitizers) are effective against many other bacteria/viruses, but they just won't kill off norovirus.

In the kitchen I use ammonia-based sanitizers unless someone who has been in the kitchen came down with noro-like symptoms. In the playroom and bathroom, I use chlorine-based sanitizers. Basically, anywhere that may come into contact with feces gets chlorine.
I checked the label on my Lysol can. It includes rotavirus wa in it's list of viruses that it is effective on.
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Meeko 12:18 PM 02-28-2012
Basic rule of thumb.....if a "reg" isn't actually IN print, IN the official regs........it's not a reg. Don't let anyone bully you otherwise.

Each state is different...but if it's not officially on paper, do your own thing.

I was told this by a licensing rules trainer and it has always helped me when you get three different "rules" from three different "experts"

Rule not on official paper? Doesn't exist.

Thankfully Utah has very easy to read licensing manuals. The reg is listed. Underneath is why the rule is in place and under that is the penalty for breaking that rule. (Some regs are minor/others major safety concerns) We can look it up online either alphabetically or by topic.

They are very good about trying to make all licensors on the same page, so we don't get one saying something is OK and another telling us we broke a rule.

The only thing providers worry about is making sure we know the reg manual. We never worry about inspectors making their own decisions.

If it's not in the reg book........it doesn't exist......rinse...repeat.....

We can use bleach solution or other things. If we DO use bleach, it must be made daily. If we chose to use other things, it must be clearly labelled and state on that label that it kill germs in ten minutes or less. If we meet that, we're good.
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sharlan 01:23 PM 02-28-2012
I have never had anyone from licensing ask or even address the issue of sanitizing.

I wipe my counters and table down with hot soapy water during the day. I bleach them down at night after dinner.
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spud912 01:54 PM 02-28-2012
Originally Posted by AmyLeigh:
I checked the label on my Lysol can. It includes rotavirus wa in it's list of viruses that it is effective on.
Rotavirus is completely different from norovirus. Rotavirus is very serious and frequently requires a hospital visit, hence the vaccination. Norovirus is very common and hardly ever requires a visit to the doctor since it's usually over within a day or two (although very unpleasant when you do have the symptoms). Most people have had norovirus sometime in their life.

Norovirus fact sheet from CDC:
http://www.cdc.gov/ncidod/dvrd/revb/...-factsheet.htm

Rotavirus fact sheet:
http://www.bt.cdc.gov/disasters/pdf/rotavirus.pdf
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AmyLeigh 02:11 PM 02-28-2012
Oops, sorry. Got them mixed up.
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AmyLeigh 02:31 PM 02-28-2012
Oops, sorry. Got them mixed up.
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MrsB 08:05 AM 02-29-2012
Our state regs state bleach only and has to made each day.

Although I love bleach and use it often. I have many surfaces I can't use it on. My countertops are black so it leaves a white film, my floors are wood, carpet obviously can't use bleach. I make a squirt bottle of bleach and water every day and use it on what I can, i have appropriate cleaners for my other surfaces.

When my licensing specialist comes for inspection. I show her my bleach, made daily. She doesnt ask to see my other cleaners or ask to watch me clean the counters. I usually do my cleaning with cleaners after the daycare kids are gone. Partly so they aren't exposed, partly because that means more time for my time/space %.
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Tags:bleach, california - regulations, disinfectants
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