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Daycare Center and Family Home Forum>Would You Turn Unlicensed Providers In?
aDCProvider 02:15 PM 07-24-2014
In my state you cannot care for even one unrelated child in your home, EVER, without being licensed.

I keep coming across mother posting on care and craigslist for unlicensed home daycare. My business has been suffering due to a lull in interest, but these woman are charging 30-50% less per day than licensed home daycares.

I'm so tempted to send screenshots of the ads to my licensor. I know my state has been cracking down on unlicensed providers for some time now.

WWYD?
Blackcat31 02:20 PM 07-24-2014
yep.

without regret.

NOT because I was hurting for clients but because it is simply wrong.

To me, it isn't any different than turning in poachers or thieves.
Heidi 02:22 PM 07-24-2014
Yep!

I also flag them on CL
MrsSteinel'sHouse 02:32 PM 07-24-2014
yes! if it is illegal I absolutely would.
cheerfuldom 02:36 PM 07-24-2014
Yes I would and I have.
LysesKids 02:43 PM 07-24-2014
Originally Posted by aDCProvider:
In my state you cannot care for even one unrelated child in your home, EVER, without being licensed.

I keep coming across mother posting on care and craigslist for unlicensed home daycare. My business has been suffering due to a lull in interest, but these woman are charging 30-50% less per day than licensed home daycares.

I'm so tempted to send screenshots of the ads to my licensor. I know my state has been cracking down on unlicensed providers for some time now.

WWYD?
See in my state it's legal, however I have been a licensed provider in states where it's not... if it's considered illegal in your particular state, YES; In states where you can run legally license exempt with a few kids, NO
Second Home 02:45 PM 07-24-2014
I wish they cracked down around here . I see so many ads where they say upfront that they are unlicensed . All people doing child care , even 1 child must be licensed.

I have flagged ads . And i plan to ask during my next inspection what they are doing to stop unlicensed daycare .
LysesKids 02:49 PM 07-24-2014
Originally Posted by Heidi:
Yep!

I also flag them on CL
You can take up to3 kids unlicensed in Wisconsin unless law changed in the last few years... why flag them?
TwinKristi 02:58 PM 07-24-2014
Originally Posted by LysesKids:
You can take up to3 kids unlicensed in Wisconsin unless law changed in the last few years... why flag them?
The OP said he's in a state where it's illegal. The person you quoted is in WI which has nothing to do with the OP. You flag it because it's illegal for them to be operating.
LysesKids 03:01 PM 07-24-2014
Originally Posted by TwinKristi:
The OP said he's in a state where it's illegal. The person you quoted is in WI which has nothing to do with the OP. You flag it because it's illegal for them to be operating.
The lady in WI says she flags too that's why I questioned it... WI law says you can watch 3 kids without a license, so why is she flagging CL ads ?
MotherNature 03:54 PM 07-24-2014
If it's illegal, then yup, definitely.
NightOwl 04:49 PM 07-24-2014
Yep. And I flag.
DaveA 04:52 PM 07-24-2014
If it was illegal, without thinking twice.
Heidi 05:00 PM 07-24-2014
Originally Posted by LysesKids:
You can take up to3 kids unlicensed in Wisconsin unless law changed in the last few years... why flag them?
Oh...I don't flag legally exempt.

I flag the lady and her (grown) daughter who advertise that they do daycare 24 hours a day, and put right in their ad "we don't take state funding and we don't do tax-time claiming". uh.. yeah...
LysesKids 05:41 PM 07-24-2014
Originally Posted by Heidi:
Oh...I don't flag legally exempt.

I flag the lady and her (grown) daughter who advertise that they do daycare 24 hours a day, and put right in their ad "we don't take state funding and we don't do tax-time claiming". uh.. yeah...
I understand that so much. We have CL ads saying we will beat any rates on CL; they are asking for a heap of trouble license exempt or not, because I've seen offers for 60 week locally. It's crazy because I know I can get 125-135 week as a license exempt (I do organics) ; I also claim taxes and am on the food program...
Heidi 06:07 PM 07-24-2014
Originally Posted by LysesKids:
I understand that so much. We have CL ads saying we will beat any rates on CL; they are asking for a heap of trouble license exempt or not, because I've seen offers for 60 week locally. It's crazy because I know I can get 125-135 week as a license exempt (I do organics) ; I also claim taxes and am on the food program...
Yeah, as long as someone is LEGAL, I'd stay out of it. I actually wouldn't care if I knew someone had 4 kids once in a while instead of 3. What gets me is people who take 10 or 12 without a license. Even WITH a license, I can only take 8.
Unregistered 06:42 PM 07-24-2014
I don't even know how you guys have time/know about these ads. Seems a little petty. I also think it's extreme that some state require a license to basically be a nanny (have one child). I wouldn't turn anyone in, because one I probably wouldn't know (I have a life to lead and am too busy to be a nosey body). Two, there's no way to know if someone is licensed or not. I also think things like this take away from real cases of abuse. I mean, should the government be inspecting a person who's caring for one kid (in some states) and probably not doing anything wrong or the foster family that's feeding the child dog food? Things like this is why REAL abuse usually doesn't get taken care of at all in a lot of cases, because the social workers are too busy with this bs,
Heidi 06:58 PM 07-24-2014
Originally Posted by Unregistered:
I don't even know how you guys have time/know about these ads. Seems a little petty. I also think it's extreme that some state require a license to basically be a nanny (have one child). I wouldn't turn anyone in, because one I probably wouldn't know (I have a life to lead and am too busy to be a nosey body). Two, there's no way to know if someone is licensed or not. I also think things like this take away from real cases of abuse. I mean, should the government be inspecting a person who's caring for one kid (in some states) and probably not doing anything wrong or the foster family that's feeding the child dog food? Things like this is why REAL abuse usually doesn't get taken care of at all in a lot of cases, because the social workers are too busy with this bs,
So...if your neighbor drove around without a license, you'd be ok with that? I mean...he knows how to drive, right? So what if you spent the time studying the rules, taking the required tests, and paying the fees?

Or how about the lady down the street from your restaurant who's a good cook? The state requires a license and heath inspection for restaurants, but so what? She's a good cook! So, she sells tamale's at 3/4 the price you do, and you go through all the work of dealing with inspectors, but that's just fine? Not only that, she has the nerve to advertise what she's doing illegally?

I've done my share of internet research and been a mother for 24 years. So, when someone in the family is sick, I generally do a good job diagnosing it. When my husband had appendicitis a few years ago, I called it. I'm pretty smart that way. I think maybe I'll open a 1/2 price clinic in my living room.

In all seriousness, I don't spend hours trolling craigslist looking for illegal providers. But, when I posted my ad and looked at a few others, I thought it was pretty blatant to admit that this person was not only providing illegal care, but committing tax fraud to boot.

If you don't like the laws, lobby to have them changed. One child equals a license DOES seem ridiculous. But so does a lady and her 2 pre-teen daughter who homeschool "watching" 15 kids.
LysesKids 07:09 PM 07-24-2014
Originally Posted by Unregistered:
I don't even know how you guys have time/know about these ads. Seems a little petty. I also think it's extreme that some state require a license to basically be a nanny (have one child)
First off a nanny doesn't work in her own home, she goes to the family home and falls under federal law for pay; that means minimum wage plus OT after 40hrs... something alot of us legal providers don't get (I could only hope);. If a childcare is working under the table, what are you hiding? Disability pay, Food stamps? Something to think about if one isn't running legal. Petty or not, we run legal, and those that don't... to bad, not sad
craftymissbeth 07:50 PM 07-24-2014
Originally Posted by Unregistered:
I don't even know how you guys have time/know about these ads. Seems a little petty. I also think it's extreme that some state require a license to basically be a nanny (have one child). I wouldn't turn anyone in, because one I probably wouldn't know (I have a life to lead and am too busy to be a nosey body). Two, there's no way to know if someone is licensed or not. I also think things like this take away from real cases of abuse. I mean, should the government be inspecting a person who's caring for one kid (in some states) and probably not doing anything wrong or the foster family that's feeding the child dog food? Things like this is why REAL abuse usually doesn't get taken care of at all in a lot of cases, because the social workers are too busy with this bs,
I've never really searched Craigslist since my area doesn't use it for advertising, but I belong to A LOT of Facebook swap groups and many of those posts show up directly in my news feed. In my state, we have a website where you can search for providers to see their licensing info as well as regulation compliance issues and inspection information.

Also in my state, you must be licensed if you watch kids in your own home for more than 20 hours a week total. This isn't ridiculous; it's to protect families, IMO. They inspect our homes regardless of whether we have 0 children or 12 so that the children and families are protected... a nanny works out of the family's home and that family can live however they please.

Also in my state , it's licensing that responds to complaints of illegally unlicensed providers, not CPS (DCF here). Therefore, the "real abuse" victims are unaffected by the decision to turn in unlicensed providers.
midaycare 08:17 PM 07-24-2014
Originally Posted by Unregistered:
I don't even know how you guys have time/know about these ads. Seems a little petty. I also think it's extreme that some state require a license to basically be a nanny (have one child). I wouldn't turn anyone in, because one I probably wouldn't know (I have a life to lead and am too busy to be a nosey body). Two, there's no way to know if someone is licensed or not. I also think things like this take away from real cases of abuse. I mean, should the government be inspecting a person who's caring for one kid (in some states) and probably not doing anything wrong or the foster family that's feeding the child dog food? Things like this is why REAL abuse usually doesn't get taken care of at all in a lot of cases, because the social workers are too busy with this bs,
This is not done by social workers where I live.
Unregistered 10:06 PM 07-24-2014
Originally Posted by midaycare:
This is not done by social workers where I live.
In my area it is, because this would be reported as child abuse. In my area, you don't have to licensed for a certain amount of children. Even if it was a center that licensed, it's CPS/a social worker going. Honestly, it is petty because the root of it money. If they were running these "illegal" daycares for free, would you report them? I hope everyone who's a legal eagle, knows all their laws and knows sometimes laws can contradict other laws. I don't condone doing things that are illegal, you aren't a cop. If you're reporting people willy nilly, I hope your behind is always covered. I once had a friend who very upstanding and lived in an apartment. New obnoxious neighbor came in. They got into an argument about something. New neighbor was a lawyer and had lots of lawyer coworkers and friends and government official friends. It eventually ended with my friend getting evicted and having police reports in their name. I'm just saying it's easy to get someone someone for not doting their Is, but just make sure you're always crossing your Ts.
CraftyMom 05:59 AM 07-25-2014
I'll add that when you are licensed it is not only you the provider being licensed, it is your HOME. They make sure the home is a safe environment for kids to be in. No safety hazards, no criminals or sex offenders living in or visiting the home, cleanliness, a safe outside play area, no one has any illnesses, just to name a few of the things regulated by licensing.

Sure a sahm may be wonderful with children and takes excellent care of them, but the home also needs to be inspected.

Even with my license, I am only qualified to care for children in THIS home. If I move I need to get relicensed.
permanentvacation 06:12 AM 07-25-2014
Dang skippy I would.... and have. I call the unlicensed person from a phone number that I do not use in my daycare ad. I act like I have a child I might want them to watch and ask all the questions a caller would ask me about daycare. I get their address and then I call my supervisor with their information. I have to make that 'fake' phone call because the supervisors won't bother taking the time to investigate anything themselves. But if we call them with the name, address, phone number, and tell them that the unlicensed person offered to watch my child for a specific price on a consistent basis at their house, then the supervisor will go to the unlicensed person's house.
Crazy8 06:35 AM 07-25-2014
if it is illegal yes I would report them. But I find it really crazy that some states are so strict. You can't babysit one child without being licensed?? Wow. I wonder if some people even know this. I mean, if I wasn't looking to be a professional daycare provider, just wanted to watch a child to earn a few bucks I wouldn't even expect that I'd need a license to do so.
craftymissbeth 06:49 AM 07-25-2014
Originally Posted by Unregistered:
In my area it is, because this would be reported as child abuse. In my area, you don't have to licensed for a certain amount of children. Even if it was a center that licensed, it's CPS/a social worker going. Honestly, it is petty because the root of it money. If they were running these "illegal" daycares for free, would you report them? I hope everyone who's a legal eagle, knows all their laws and knows sometimes laws can contradict other laws. I don't condone doing things that are illegal, you aren't a cop. If you're reporting people willy nilly, I hope your behind is always covered. I once had a friend who very upstanding and lived in an apartment. New obnoxious neighbor came in. They got into an argument about something. New neighbor was a lawyer and had lots of lawyer coworkers and friends and government official friends. It eventually ended with my friend getting evicted and having police reports in their name. I'm just saying it's easy to get someone someone for not doting their Is, but just make sure you're always crossing your Ts.
Yes, I would report regardless of how much they charge. For me, this issue isn't about them being my "competition". In fact, I don't even see other licensed providers as my competition, either. I'd report just because I feel like if they can't go through the process of becoming licensed then they're hiding something and it should be checked out. I just want the kids they watch to be safe.
Play Care 06:51 AM 07-25-2014
Originally Posted by Crazy8:
if it is illegal yes I would report them. But I find it really crazy that some states are so strict. You can't babysit one child without being licensed?? Wow. I wonder if some people even know this. I mean, if I wasn't looking to be a professional daycare provider, just wanted to watch a child to earn a few bucks I wouldn't even expect that I'd need a license to do so.
I agree that it seems ridiculous, and I'm willing to bet most people wouldn't bother turning in someone who truly had one or two kids. In my state the rule is two children if you are unlicensed. The issue I've run into is that the illegals have 5 or 6 kids in their care. And most of them are former licensed providers to they know they are breaking the law.
momofboys 07:01 AM 07-25-2014
Originally Posted by craftymissbeth:
Yes, I would report regardless of how much they charge. For me, this issue isn't about them being my "competition". In fact, I don't even see other licensed providers as my competition, either. I'd report just because I feel like if they can't go through the process of becoming licensed then they're hiding something and it should be checked out. I just want the kids they watch to be safe.
In my state you don't have to be licensed but I think it's a bit over-the-top to assume that they are hiding something simply because they aren't licensed.
permanentvacation 07:29 AM 07-25-2014
For those saying they wouldn't worry about someone illegal that just has a couple of kids.

In my area, the unlicensed illegal babysitters are literally running legal daycare providers out of business. There is a ratio of about 4 illegal babysitters to every 1 legal daycare provider here. The illegals charge $75 while the going rate of legal daycare is $120-140. That rate is for 2-5 year olds. So many parents are hiring the illegal babysitters to save money which has made us legal providers who can legally have 8 children and typically would have a full load of 8 kids, now many of us can only get about 4 kids! The illegals are literally running many of us out of business! So, yes! We DO Have to worry about the illegals even if they only have a couple of kids, because if there are 50 illegals with only 2 kids each, that's 100 kids in the area that the illegals are taking from us!
permanentvacation 07:31 AM 07-25-2014
Oh, I forgot to say that when I turn the illegals in, I also send a copy of their ad into my supervisor to prove that they are advertising to watch children that are not related to them on a consistent basis for a fee.
Blackcat31 07:33 AM 07-25-2014
Originally Posted by momofboys:
In my state you don't have to be licensed but I think it's a bit over-the-top to assume that they are hiding something simply because they aren't licensed.
I agree but at the same time, if they aren't hiding anything...why not just get a license (or do things legally)..kwim?

I know it's about time, money and the sometimes lengthy process you have to go through to get licensed but imagine if we applied that same logic to a driver's license.

"Oh, he's a great driver! Never had an accident ever. But he's too busy to get a license or take the training/test to get one so he never bothered".

(Now mind you he legally cannot get proper insurance if he doesn't have a license)

That ^^^ would be all fine and dandy until the ONE day he did have an accident. Even if the accident was NO CAUSE of his own. 4 other cars involved and a couple of injuries.

Now WHO is in trouble? ...and getting out of that trouble is more than likely going to take alot longer and cost alot more than it would have had he just gotten the license in the first place and covered his tushie.
LysesKids 07:34 AM 07-25-2014
Originally Posted by craftymissbeth:
Yes, I would report regardless of how much they charge. For me, this issue isn't about them being my "competition". In fact, I don't even see other licensed providers as my competition, either. I'd report just because I feel like if they can't go through the process of becoming licensed then they're hiding something and it should be checked out. I just want the kids they watch to be safe.
Not everyone who runs unlicensed has something to hide... in my state they won't license me because I take 4 or less kids, and yes i still have over site, but only because I am on food program & I care for Foster kids; I run licensed whenever possible, but even TN has gotten rid of registration for providers not having enough kids to get licensed; thats not my fault... I run like I am licensed still but the state has rules in place that don't always make sense.

AR was the same way... Either take enough kids to get licensed or stay legally license exempt with fewer kids. Registration is really no longer an option because the state thinsk it's to much of a pain to essentially license homes that don't have alot of kids.
KiddieCahoots 07:35 AM 07-25-2014
Originally Posted by aDCProvider:
In my state you cannot care for even one unrelated child in your home, EVER, without being licensed.

I keep coming across mother posting on care and craigslist for unlicensed home daycare. My business has been suffering due to a lull in interest, but these woman are charging 30-50% less per day than licensed home daycares.

I'm so tempted to send screenshots of the ads to my licensor. I know my state has been cracking down on unlicensed providers for some time now.

WWYD?
The thing about reporting the illegally run daycares, we're from the same state, and I don't know about everybody else, but we would be on CL all day flagging posted adds. There are usually that many unlicensed posting adds. Scary!
Blackcat31 07:36 AM 07-25-2014
Originally Posted by LysesKids:
Not everyone who runs unlicensed has something to hide... in my state they won't license me because I take 4 or less kids, and yes i still have over site, but only because I am on food program & I care for Foster kids; I run licensed whenever possible, but even TN has gotten rid of registration for providers not having enough kids to get licensed; thats not my fault... I run like I am licensed still but the state has rules in place that don't always make sense.

AR was the same way... Either take enough kids to get licensed or stay legally license exempt with fewer kids. Registration is really no longer an option because the state thinsk it's to much of a pain to essentially license homes that don't have alot of kids.
So you are legally licensed or legally unlicensed?
melilley 07:38 AM 07-25-2014
Originally Posted by Crazy8:
if it is illegal yes I would report them. But I find it really crazy that some states are so strict. You can't babysit one child without being licensed?? Wow. I wonder if some people even know this. I mean, if I wasn't looking to be a professional daycare provider, just wanted to watch a child to earn a few bucks I wouldn't even expect that I'd need a license to do so.
I think that some states, mine included,are a little ridiculous, we have to have a license for even 1 unrelated child. And I also think that a lot of people do not know this. One provider around here posted an ad on cl telling illegal providers that you have to be licensed and also gave the state website, but there were still people advertising illegal care, some even retaliated and responded that they basically didn't care.
A while ago a woman got in trouble because she allowed sa kids to go to her house, in the driveway to catch the bus and she got in trouble! Now that is ridiculous!
melilley 07:47 AM 07-25-2014
I don't turn them in because honestly, I don't think anything would be done. I do flag them though, but that doesn't seem to matter either.
I do agree with every one who said that it is a big deal to run illegally. If your state allows you to take care of children without a license, then that's legal and fine, but if your state requires you to be licensed then you need to be! I put a tremendous amount of time and money into becoming licensed because that's the legal way and the illegal providers need to do the same!
aDCProvider 07:50 AM 07-25-2014
Originally Posted by KiddieCahoots:
The thing about reporting the illegally run daycares, we're from the same state, and I don't know about everybody else, but we would be on CL all day flagging posted adds. There are usually that many unlicensed posting adds. Scary!
This is the first time I considered turning one in. Also, I don't bother going through craigslist and have never flagged anyone. It's just that this one really bugged me because she's been doing this for a long time and from her photos and description she is not following the ratio limit and charging pennies compared to what licensed daycares charge. I'm hurting for business and this illegal daycare has been operating over capacity for about 50% of what I charge and in my area these illegal daycares are hurting business for the rest of us who follow the laws and regulations!

Nothing will be done anyway because I don't have an address, only a phone number.
Unregistered 07:52 AM 07-25-2014
Originally Posted by permanentvacation:
For those saying they wouldn't worry about someone illegal that just has a couple of kids.

In my area, the unlicensed illegal babysitters are literally running legal daycare providers out of business. There is a ratio of about 4 illegal babysitters to every 1 legal daycare provider here. The illegals charge $75 while the going rate of legal daycare is $120-140. That rate is for 2-5 year olds. So many parents are hiring the illegal babysitters to save money which has made us legal providers who can legally have 8 children and typically would have a full load of 8 kids, now many of us can only get about 4 kids! The illegals are literally running many of us out of business! So, yes! We DO Have to worry about the illegals even if they only have a couple of kids, because if there are 50 illegals with only 2 kids each, that's 100 kids in the area that the illegals are taking from us!
It may be because there's a lot of children in my area, but I've noticed the parents who want to spend a certain amount or less, don't go to legal places anyway. They would hire a babysitter (which is legal here) or have family help out if those providers were gone. As the saying goes, you can't get blood from a stone. Are most people cheap? Yes. If those parents using these people really don't have 140 they're not going to magically find it if the illegals go away. I do feel bad for people who do the right thing and aren't making it, you're not alone. Many people do the right thing and struggle financially. All of you so gun ho to shut down illegals without knowing if there is abuse, should think of where are those children going to go? Not think of it as potential customers.
Unregistered 07:59 AM 07-25-2014
Originally Posted by Blackcat31:
I agree but at the same time, if they aren't hiding anything...why not just get a license (or do things legally)..kwim?

I know it's about time, money and the sometimes lengthy process you have to go through to get licensed but imagine if we applied that same logic to a driver's license.

"Oh, he's a great driver! Never had an accident ever. But he's too busy to get a license or take the training/test to get one so he never bothered".

(Now mind you he legally cannot get proper insurance if he doesn't have a license)

That ^^^ would be all fine and dandy until the ONE day he did have an accident. Even if the accident was NO CAUSE of his own. 4 other cars involved and a couple of injuries.

Now WHO is in trouble? ...and getting out of that trouble is more than likely going to take alot longer and cost alot more than it would have had he just gotten the license in the first place and covered his tushie.
This is not what this is like at all, though. This is like someone driving around with insurance and you report them, because you feel they shouldn't have a car or a car that is nicer than your car. Most people are admitting, even subtly, it's not really about the kids/abuse. It's about money. Like I said, report until your heart is content. If you even accidentally cross the line or forget to dot an i, don't be surprised when the boom comes down on you. Just as when you fear HORROR stories of the abuse some children are going through, pat yourself on the shoulder for reporting a person who had one kid. Do I think people should be doing illegal care? No, but there's a difference between that and real child abuse. I can get behind reporting someone with a lot of children or who is hurting them in some fashion, but not someone who has 2 or 3 kids and just not licensed.
Play Care 08:01 AM 07-25-2014
Originally Posted by LysesKids:
Not everyone who runs unlicensed has something to hide... in my state they won't license me because I take 4 or less kids, and yes i still have over site, but only because I am on food program & I care for Foster kids; I run licensed whenever possible, but even TN has gotten rid of registration for providers not having enough kids to get licensed; thats not my fault... I run like I am licensed still but the state has rules in place that don't always make sense.

AR was the same way... Either take enough kids to get licensed or stay legally license exempt with fewer kids. Registration is really no longer an option because the state thinsk it's to much of a pain to essentially license homes that don't have alot of kids.
If you are legally unlicensed then you are legal. The OP seems to be specially speaking about illegal providers - those who can and should be licensed but make the decision not to.
KidGrind 08:04 AM 07-25-2014
I have reported illegally unlicensed or uncertified providers.

I am have no issue with legally unlicensed/uncertified/unregistered providers.
Blackcat31 08:04 AM 07-25-2014
Originally Posted by Unregistered:
I don't even know how you guys have time/know about these ads. Seems a little petty. I also think it's extreme that some state require a license to basically be a nanny (have one child). I wouldn't turn anyone in, because one I probably wouldn't know (I have a life to lead and am too busy to be a nosey body). Two, there's no way to know if someone is licensed or not. I also think things like this take away from real cases of abuse. I mean, should the government be inspecting a person who's caring for one kid (in some states) and probably not doing anything wrong or the foster family that's feeding the child dog food? Things like this is why REAL abuse usually doesn't get taken care of at all in a lot of cases, because the social workers are too busy with this bs,
Originally Posted by Unregistered:
In my area it is, because this would be reported as child abuse. In my area, you don't have to licensed for a certain amount of children. Even if it was a center that licensed, it's CPS/a social worker going. Honestly, it is petty because the root of it money. If they were running these "illegal" daycares for free, would you report them? I hope everyone who's a legal eagle, knows all their laws and knows sometimes laws can contradict other laws. I don't condone doing things that are illegal, you aren't a cop. If you're reporting people willy nilly, I hope your behind is always covered. I once had a friend who very upstanding and lived in an apartment. New obnoxious neighbor came in. They got into an argument about something. New neighbor was a lawyer and had lots of lawyer coworkers and friends and government official friends. It eventually ended with my friend getting evicted and having police reports in their name. I'm just saying it's easy to get someone someone for not doting their Is, but just make sure you're always crossing your Ts.
Originally Posted by Unregistered:
It may be because there's a lot of children in my area, but I've noticed the parents who want to spend a certain amount or less, don't go to legal places anyway. They would hire a babysitter (which is legal here) or have family help out if those providers were gone. As the saying goes, you can't get blood from a stone. Are most people cheap? Yes. If those parents using these people really don't have 140 they're not going to magically find it if the illegals go away. I do feel bad for people who do the right thing and aren't making it, you're not alone. Many people do the right thing and struggle financially. All of you so gun ho to shut down illegals without knowing if there is abuse, should think of where are those children going to go? Not think of it as potential customers.
Are you a provider providing care illegally?

Seems you have a vested interest in presenting the illegal provider's point of view.

Originally Posted by Unregistered:
All of you so gun ho to shut down illegals without knowing if there is abuse, should think of where are those children going to go? Not think of it as potential customers.
It's not my problem where they go. I am not looking for new customers.

There are plenty of providers providing care LEGALLY that can take them. There are also lots of family members and friends that can probably pitch in too.

But either way, I wouldn't hesitate to report anyone providing care illegally.
Unregistered 08:08 AM 07-25-2014
Originally Posted by Blackcat31:
Are you a provider providing care illegally?

Seems you have a vested interest in presenting the illegal provider's point of view.



It's not my problem where they go. I am not looking for new customers.

There are plenty of providers providing care LEGALLY that can take them. There are also lots of family members and friends that can probably pitch in too.

But either way, I wouldn't hesitate to report anyone providing care illegally.
Yes, I'm providing illegal child care. *Eyeroll* You know, that's the sort of thing people would admit online. *Eyeroll* I also like how since you don't have any valid counterpoints, you're not accusing me of things. What's next? Since this is online, I guess I'm going to either be called a Nazi or compared to Hitler. Nice behavior, moderator.

I love your compassion.
Play Care 08:10 AM 07-25-2014
Originally Posted by Unregistered:
This is not what this is like at all, though. This is like someone driving around with insurance and you report them, because you feel they shouldn't have a car or a car that is nicer than your car. Most people are admitting, even subtly, it's not really about the kids/abuse. It's about money. Like I said, report until your heart is content. If you even accidentally cross the line or forget to dot an i, don't be surprised when the boom comes down on you. Just as when you fear HORROR stories of the abuse some children are going through, pat yourself on the shoulder for reporting a person who had one kid. Do I think people should be doing illegal care? No, but there's a difference between that and real child abuse. I can get behind reporting someone with a lot of children or who is hurting them in some fashion, but not someone who has 2 or 3 kids and just not licensed.
I'm not sure what you are trying to get at? Is an illegal provider going to what? Try to sue someone they *think* turned them in? How would that conversation even go? "Yes your honor, I knew I was breaking the law, but she toooooold on me!" The illegal would have to prove the provider was the one who turned them in - and I'm fairly sure it's a confidential process. Since most illegals *advertise* they wouldn't have a leg to stand on in court.

Frankly I don't turn in illegals as I feel OCFS (not CPS in my state, BTW) should do their own darn job. Thankfully the illegals make it easy by posting on CL, Facebook, etc.
MsLisa 08:13 AM 07-25-2014
Call me paranoid but...
This post comes out and I get a message on my FB page this morning:
"Just wondering, are you certified by the state? Do you have a children/teacher ratio?.

I can't help but wonder if I was targeted.

No i am not licensed, in PA I can have up to 4 before needing one (4:1). I don't plan on having more then that anyway. I'm lucky to just get one! lol.

THIS is why I didn't want to call myself a daycare.....
But i'll be damned, I'm not changing my stuff over again after all that work. Nope.
KiddieCahoots 08:16 AM 07-25-2014
Originally Posted by Unregistered:
In my area it is, because this would be reported as child abuse. In my area, you don't have to licensed for a certain amount of children. Even if it was a center that licensed, it's CPS/a social worker going. Honestly, it is petty because the root of it money. If they were running these "illegal" daycares for free, would you report them? I hope everyone who's a legal eagle, knows all their laws and knows sometimes laws can contradict other laws. I don't condone doing things that are illegal, you aren't a cop. If you're reporting people willy nilly, I hope your behind is always covered. I once had a friend who very upstanding and lived in an apartment. New obnoxious neighbor came in. They got into an argument about something. New neighbor was a lawyer and had lots of lawyer coworkers and friends and government official friends. It eventually ended with my friend getting evicted and having police reports in their name. I'm just saying it's easy to get someone someone for not doting their Is, but just make sure you're always crossing your Ts.
That's just it, we work very hard to comply with the laws by crossing our T's and dotting our I's. Why should an illegally run childcare not have to abide by the same regulations, especially if it boils down to the safety of children? Imh, do you think we are having a blast trying to jump through all the hoops they set for us to maintain our legal establishments?

Your getting into the nitty gritty of politics on this, and I agree with you that politics stink! But, you could do that on any subject and we'd be here all day, and then some discussing it.

Yes....your right about government officials and their friends, it comes down to who you know. I'm sure we could all share stories on this too. It doesn't mean we should throw in the towel and all become illegal, or turn our heads to the ones that are.
Blackcat31 08:19 AM 07-25-2014
Originally Posted by Unregistered:
Yes, I'm providing illegal child care. *Eyeroll* You know, that's the sort of thing people would admit online. *Eyeroll* I also like how since you don't have any valid counterpoints, you're not accusing me of things. What's next? Since this is online, I guess I'm going to either be called a Nazi or compared to Hitler. Nice behavior, moderator.


I'm not arguing anything so I fail to see why I would need valid counterpoints.

I am genuinely asking you a question.

There was no malice, no alterior motives or hidden agendas...I am curious as to why you feel so strongly about protecting illegal child care providers.

However, since you have no valid reply you instead choose to focus on the "rules" you feel I am suppose to adhere to as a moderator. ??

So rules apply when they suit you but not other times?


Originally Posted by Unregistered:
I love your compassion.
Thanks, I love my compassion too.
Play Care 08:25 AM 07-25-2014
Originally Posted by MsLisa:
Call me paranoid but...
This post comes out and I get a message on my FB page this morning:
"Just wondering, are you certified by the state? Do you have a children/teacher ratio?.

I can't help but wonder if I was targeted.

No i am not licensed, in PA I can have up to 4 before needing one. I don't plan on having more then that anyway. I'm lucky to just get one! lol. So my "child/teacher" ratio is 4:1.

THIS is why I didn't want to call myself a daycare.....
If you are LEGALLY unlicensed you have nothing to fear I would message back something like "per PA law only those with more than 4 children need to have a license. As I never go over this number I do not hold a license. - LEGALLY." I'd then go on to say what you do have (current first aid/CPR, any degrees or certifications, etc) what's the worst that can happen? Someone from the office of day care comes out to check and sees that you operate legally unlicensed?

I do not understand why every time this topic comes up, LEGALLY unlicensed providers get upset. If you're legal, then your legal...
spinnymarie 08:25 AM 07-25-2014
Originally Posted by Unregistered:
Just as when you fear HORROR stories of the abuse some children are going through, pat yourself on the shoulder for reporting a person who had one kid. Do I think people should be doing illegal care? No, but there's a difference between that and real child abuse. I can get behind reporting someone with a lot of children or who is hurting them in some fashion, but not someone who has 2 or 3 kids and just not licensed.
The only real way to know that a provider is doing right by the children and NOT hurting them in some way is if the provider is licensed as required by their state.

This could just as easily go down as someone reporting an illegal provider who had 2 or 3 kids and is abusing them. Or reporting an illegal provider who leaves children in the home alone. Or an illegal provider caring for 40 kids each day in a tiny house and children are getting hurt. And I have read articles on each of these real-life scenarios in illegal provider's homes.

Should we berate providers that call Child Protection for cases that end up being closed? In truth, that was technically a 'waste of time' for that Child Protection worker, if the claim did not end in taking the child out of the home or a remediation plan for the family. And yet, that same agency REQUIRES us to call on *any* suspicion.

It is always advisable to call CPS any time you are suspicious of children not being treated well, and that includes illegal providers.
Unregistered 08:27 AM 07-25-2014
Originally Posted by Play Care:
I'm not sure what you are trying to get at? Is an illegal provider going to what? Try to sue someone they *think* turned them in? How would that conversation even go? "Yes your honor, I knew I was breaking the law, but she toooooold on me!" The illegal would have to prove the provider was the one who turned them in - and I'm fairly sure it's a confidential process. Since most illegals *advertise* they wouldn't have a leg to stand on in court.

Frankly I don't turn in illegals as I feel OCFS (not CPS in my state, BTW) should do their own darn job. Thankfully the illegals make it easy by posting on CL, Facebook, etc.
There are so many laws. Do you know them all? What if you accidentally broke one? Or did something to comply with one law that broke another? I'm just according to the logic everyone is using here, if you did (no one here would because you all know every law on Earth ) you're guilty until proven innocent. As I said before, with anything (not just child care), make sure you're doting your is and crossing your ts, because maybe one day someone will return your favor. As I said, my friend got into a fight with an annoying neighbor (not about daycare) and neighbor turned out to be a lawyer. Every little pinky toe my friend got out of line, there was legal trouble.

http://www.menshealth.com/best-life/crimes Look at this. Most of these I knew, but two shocked me. Did you know all of these things were illegal? I'm just saying, it's all fun and games to call the authorities on people. If you're even in the hot seat don't feel bad.
Blackcat31 08:28 AM 07-25-2014
Originally Posted by MsLisa:
Call me paranoid but...
This post comes out and I get a message on my FB page this morning:
"Just wondering, are you certified by the state? Do you have a children/teacher ratio?.

I can't help but wonder if I was targeted.

No i am not licensed, in PA I can have up to 4 before needing one (4:1). I don't plan on having more then that anyway. I'm lucky to just get one! lol.

THIS is why I didn't want to call myself a daycare.....
But i'll be damned, I'm not changing my stuff over again after all that work. Nope.
In any advertising, I include my license number.

It is not required but I choose to do it.

If I were you, I would just add a clause (maybe a footer to your ads) stating you are a LEGALLY unlicensed provider that adheres to all the rules and regulations of your state in accordance to ratios and etc.

That would cover you if anyone is wondering.
MsLisa 08:29 AM 07-25-2014
Originally Posted by Play Care:
If you are LEGALLY unlicensed you have nothing to fear I would message back something like "per PA law only those with more than 4 children need to have a license. As I never go over this number I do not hold a license. - LEGALLY." I'd then go on to say what you do have (current first aid/CPR, any degrees or certifications, etc) what's the worst that can happen? Someone from the office of day care comes out to check and sees that you operate legally unlicensed?

I do not understand why every time this topic comes up, LEGALLY unlicensed providers get upset. If you're legal, then your legal...
Thank you for clarifying that for me. I didn't know there was such thing as legally unlicensed, so please forgive me.
I was merely caught off guard by the peculiarity of the post here & then receiving a message in the same nature. I am still relatively semi-new to this, and as these ladies know, I don't want to step on the toes of the pros.
permanentvacation 08:42 AM 07-25-2014
Guest,


You're illegal aren't you.
Unregistered 08:43 AM 07-25-2014
Originally Posted by permanentvacation:
Guest,


You're illegal aren't you.
I'm also a Nazi officer.
Unregistered 08:44 AM 07-25-2014
Originally Posted by permanentvacation:
Guest,


You're illegal aren't you.
It's very sad, I'm accused of breaking the law because I'm not petty and truly care about the welfare of child (not solely money).
MrsSteinel'sHouse 08:47 AM 07-25-2014
Originally Posted by Blackcat31:
I agree but at the same time, if they aren't hiding anything...why not just get a license (or do things legally)..kwim?

In Ohio now they only want you licensed if you are taking state funded children. I was told that they didn't want to license you otherwise. That is their only reason for licensing. Pissed me off. So your child only deserves a licensed provider if they are on state assistance! grrr
daycare 08:48 AM 07-25-2014
A Friday feeding occurred!! Lol

I think the thing that bothers me is when people set up illegally and the ones with no real intent to do anything but make some fast money are what do me in.

They don't create safe situations/environments for the children and then when things go south "we" daycare providers that spend countless hours in trainings, reinvest in the health and safety of these children take the hit for it.

We see it in the media all the time.

Regardless of how it's done if it's illegal then yes you should be turned in.
Heidi 08:54 AM 07-25-2014
Originally Posted by Unregistered:
There are so many laws. Do you know them all? What if you accidentally broke one? Or did something to comply with one law that broke another? I'm just according to the logic everyone is using here, if you did (no one here would because you all know every law on Earth ) you're guilty until proven innocent. As I said before, with anything (not just child care), make sure you're doting your is and crossing your ts, because maybe one day someone will return your favor. As I said, my friend got into a fight with an annoying neighbor (not about daycare) and neighbor turned out to be a lawyer. Every little pinky toe my friend got out of line, there was legal trouble.


http://www.menshealth.com/best-life/crimes Look at this. Most of these I knew, but two shocked me. Did you know all of these things were illegal? I'm just saying, it's all fun and games to call the authorities on people. If you're even in the hot seat don't feel bad.
Apples and oranges...

You're justifying KNOWINGLY breaking the law. Do we all know every law? Nope. If we accidentally break one and get caught, we'll deal with the consequences.

Those of us who are licensed occasionally get non-compliance statements. Maybe we missed a piece of paperwork, or our SA kid left an outlet plug out. We deal with the consequences. We're human beings, and in my state, at least, there are over 750 licensing rules. That's a lot!

The big difference, you KNOW that you are blatantly breaking the law. You can't claim "oops!". You're doing it maliciously, and you are saying "damn the consequences and everyone else!" Does that mean you're providing "bad" care? I don't know, honestly. Do I think you SHOULD need a license for caring for 1 unrelated child? Nope. But, in your state, apparently enough people thought you should. So, either don't do it, or get a license. If you don't like the rules, get them changed. Plead your case to your legislators. Rally on the capitol. Whatever. Just don't say "it's okay, because I don't agree with the law".

Lastly, if anything ever happens to a child in your care, and you are running illegally, you homeowners or renters insurance will NOT cover you or help you in any way. If you are accused of abuse, you are not protected. If a child falls and gets hurt, you are not protected. So, when you're cashing you check every week, you might want to consider what it could cost your family in the long run. Maybe it's worth the trouble of getting regulated after all.
MrsSteinel'sHouse 08:57 AM 07-25-2014
Originally Posted by Unregistered:
Yes, I'm providing illegal child care. *Eyeroll* You know, that's the sort of thing people would admit online. *Eyeroll* I also like how since you don't have any valid counterpoints, you're not accusing me of things. What's next? Since this is online, I guess I'm going to either be called a Nazi or compared to Hitler. Nice behavior, moderator.

I love your compassion.
This is not about compassion, this is about legal and illegal child care.

I personally feel that all states should have a minimum of registration for anyone providing childcare in their home to any more than 1 child. Just basic they have had CPR, first aid and the basic childcare course. I feel that if your taking money as a provider you should at least have to register.
Play Care 08:57 AM 07-25-2014
Originally Posted by Heidi:
Apples and oranges...

You're justifying KNOWINGLY breaking the law. Do we all know every law? Nope. If we accidentally break one and get caught, we'll deal with the consequences.

Those of us who are licensed occasionally get non-compliance statements. Maybe we missed a piece of paperwork, or our SA kid left an outlet plug out. We deal with the consequences. We're human beings, and in my state, at least, there are over 750 licensing rules. That's a lot!

The big difference, you KNOW that you are blatantly breaking the law. You can't claim "oops!". You're doing it maliciously, and you are saying "damn the consequences and everyone else!" Does that mean you're providing "bad" care? I don't know, honestly. Do I think you SHOULD need a license for caring for 1 unrelated child? Nope. But, in your state, apparently enough people thought you should. So, either don't do it, or get a license. If you don't like the rules, get them changed. Plead your case to your legislators. Rally on the capitol. Whatever. Just don't say "it's okay, because I don't agree with the law".

Lastly, if anything ever happens to a child in your care, and you are running illegally, you homeowners or renters insurance will NOT cover you or help you in any way. If you are accused of abuse, you are not protected. If a child falls and gets hurt, you are not protected. So, when you're cashing you check every week, you might want to consider what it could cost your family in the long run. Maybe it's worth the trouble of getting regulated after all.


KiddieCahoots 08:58 AM 07-25-2014
Originally Posted by Unregistered:
It's very sad, I'm accused of breaking the law because I'm not petty and truly care about the welfare of child (not solely money).
We do not claim to know all the rules, but we try damn hard to accomplish them as required to do so BECAUSE we care of the welfare of children. That is in part why we are here reaching out to each other....to learn!

You apparently do not know all the rules either, otherwise you wouldn't get so critical to people that do a good job caring for the welfare of children.
Heidi 08:59 AM 07-25-2014
No, you SAID you are running illegally. Also, you're the one who keeps bringing up the Nazi crap. No one else has even mentioned it. I doubt anyone equates someone who cares for too many kids without a license with someone who packs people into work camps, tortures and kills them. It's kind of a ridiculous comparison.
MrsSteinel'sHouse 09:05 AM 07-25-2014
Originally Posted by Unregistered:
It's very sad, I'm accused of breaking the law because I'm not petty and truly care about the welfare of child (not solely money).
No you are "being accused of breaking the law" if you are illegally running a childcare.
LysesKids 09:06 AM 07-25-2014
Originally Posted by Blackcat31:
So you are legally licensed or legally unlicensed?
Legally license exempt, but I have all the background clearance and other licensing requirements needed for the state because of Foster kids... CPR/first aid the whole shebang

I have been licensed/registered in 4 states, legally license exempt in 2
KiddieCahoots 09:10 AM 07-25-2014
Originally Posted by daycare:
A Friday feeding occurred!! Lol

I think the thing that bothers me is when people set up illegally and the ones with no real intent to do anything but make some fast money are what do me in.

They don't create safe situations/environments for the children and then when things go south "we" daycare providers that spend countless hours in trainings, reinvest in the health and safety of these children take the hit for it.

We see it in the media all the time.

Regardless of how it's done if it's illegal then yes you should be turned in.
Lol! Friday feeding.......

And when it's in the media, it brings down daycare as a whole.
melilley 09:12 AM 07-25-2014
Originally Posted by Unregistered:
This is not what this is like at all, though. This is like someone driving around with insurance and you report them, because you feel they shouldn't have a car or a car that is nicer than your car. Most people are admitting, even subtly, it's not really about the kids/abuse. It's about money. Like I said, report until your heart is content. If you even accidentally cross the line or forget to dot an i, don't be surprised when the boom comes down on you. Just as when you fear HORROR stories of the abuse some children are going through, pat yourself on the shoulder for reporting a person who had one kid. Do I think people should be doing illegal care? No, but there's a difference between that and real child abuse. I can get behind reporting someone with a lot of children or who is hurting them in some fashion, but not someone who has 2 or 3 kids and just not licensed.
That has nothing to do with whether or not you are doing something ILLEGAL. Being unlicensed in a state where you are required to be licensed is ILLEGAL. It has nothing to do with having 1 or 10 kids or if they are abusers or not. The fact is that people are running illegal day cares out of their homes. While I agree that some rules/regulations are ridiculous, we still have them and they need to be followed whether you agree with them or not.

This issue will always be debated and there will always be people who think it's OK to operate illegally.
permanentvacation 09:27 AM 07-25-2014
If anyone is doing anything ILLEGALLY, they should be turned over to the authorities. If you are illegally watching children, illegally taking items from a store, illegally selling drugs, illegally driving a car, whatever it is that you are doing, if it is ILLEGAL, than it is ILLEGAL and you should have to suffer the consequences.
midaycare 09:37 AM 07-25-2014
Originally Posted by Unregistered:
This is not what this is like at all, though. This is like someone driving around with insurance and you report them, because you feel they shouldn't have a car or a car that is nicer than your car. Most people are admitting, even subtly, it's not really about the kids/abuse. It's about money. Like I said, report until your heart is content. If you even accidentally cross the line or forget to dot an i, don't be surprised when the boom comes down on you. Just as when you fear HORROR stories of the abuse some children are going through, pat yourself on the shoulder for reporting a person who had one kid. Do I think people should be doing illegal care? No, but there's a difference between that and real child abuse. I can get behind reporting someone with a lot of children or who is hurting them in some fashion, but not someone who has 2 or 3 kids and just not licensed.
I went through a lengthy process here to get licensed. I had to spend money, go to class, and have in home evaluations. It was stressful and a pita, but I had to do it. You have to be licensed in Michigan. Why should others not have to do what I had to?
Annalee 09:42 AM 07-25-2014
Originally Posted by midaycare:
I went through a lengthy process here to get licensed. I had to spend money, go to class, and have in home evaluations. It was stressful and a pita, but I had to do it. You have to be licensed in Michigan. Why should others not have to do what I had to?
In my state, when I mention there are persons I know keeping too many children with NO license, licensing tells me they are NOT allowed to go in these unlicensed homes unless their is a complaint but by law, they can come to my daycare anytime....makes alot of sense doesn't it?????
Unregistered 09:52 AM 07-25-2014
Originally Posted by Heidi:
No, you SAID you are running illegally. Also, you're the one who keeps bringing up the Nazi crap. No one else has even mentioned it. I doubt anyone equates someone who cares for too many kids without a license with someone who packs people into work camps, tortures and kills them. It's kind of a ridiculous comparison.
LOL Are you serious? Nice reading comprehension skills. I was BEING SARCASTIC, S T U P I D. Got it? I know that might be too much for your pea brain. P.S. I get most you care, because it's about M O N E Y. Like I said, pat yourself on the back. When the government and CPS is too busy checking on your competition and not on real abuse, give yourself a gold medal.
Unregistered 09:58 AM 07-25-2014
Originally Posted by midaycare:
I went through a lengthy process here to get licensed. I had to spend money, go to class, and have in home evaluations. It was stressful and a pita, but I had to do it. You have to be licensed in Michigan. Why should others not have to do what I had to?
The last line tells it all. It's not about the children or possible abuse. It's about being petty. You know what? Licensed centers abuse children, too. It's not so clean and cut. I think you should be licensed or if you're not only take as many as nonlicensed legally can, but I think people who don't know the going ons should mind their business. I find it funny people are complaining about low business, but you're on CL all day. Maybe you should spend more time marketing your center. I also think parents can tell what providers (licensed or not) CARE for their children and which ones are in it solely for money.
Blackcat31 10:01 AM 07-25-2014
Originally Posted by Unregistered:
LOL Are you serious? Nice reading comprehension skills. I was BEING SARCASTIC, S T U P I D. Got it? I know that might be too much for your pea brain. P.S. I get most you care, because it's about M O N E Y. Like I said, pat yourself on the back. When the government and CPS is too busy checking on your competition and not on real abuse, give yourself a gold medal.
Well, this was starting to look like a good conversation/debate but you had to go and ruin it.

Pat yourself on the back.

Name calling says MORE about YOU than it does about the person you are talking to.

Please find another board to contribute to as none of us appreciate an unregistered user pretending to know it all and then acting like a spoiled toddler that didn't get their way.
Unregistered 10:04 AM 07-25-2014
Originally Posted by Blackcat31:
Well, this was starting to look like a good conversation/debate but you had to go and ruin it.

Pat yourself on the back.

Name calling says MORE about YOU than it does about the person you are talking to.

Please find another board to contribute to as none of us appreciate an unregistered user pretending to know it all and then acting like a spoiled toddler that didn't get their way.
I'm back to say this. I like how me being rude got me banned, but you were rude to me and accused me of running an illegal day care. When you're pointing a finger at me, MODERATOR, four are back to you.
craftymissbeth 10:13 AM 07-25-2014
Originally Posted by LysesKids:
Not everyone who runs unlicensed has something to hide... in my state they won't license me because I take 4 or less kids, and yes i still have over site, but only because I am on food program & I care for Foster kids; I run licensed whenever possible, but even TN has gotten rid of registration for providers not having enough kids to get licensed; thats not my fault... I run like I am licensed still but the state has rules in place that don't always make sense.

AR was the same way... Either take enough kids to get licensed or stay legally license exempt with fewer kids. Registration is really no longer an option because the state thinsk it's to much of a pain to essentially license homes that don't have alot of kids.
In my previous comment, I mentioned that in my state you have to beicensed if watching children for a total of 20 hours or more per week. I'm referring to ILLEGALLY unlicensed providers. Guess I should have specified again.

And when I say "something to hide"... well, if they're running illegally then THATS something to hide. Ugh, I'm not saying every illegal provider is doing terrible things.., I'm saying that they should be reported because they're doing something ILLEGAL.
Blackcat31 10:21 AM 07-25-2014
Originally Posted by Unregistered:
I'm back to say this. I like how me being rude got me banned, but you were rude to me and accused me of running an illegal day care. When you're pointing a finger at me, MODERATOR, four are back to you.
I didn't accuse you of anything.

I asked you a question that you refused to answer.

NOT the same thing.

Plus, how do you know I actually have all 5 of my fingers?

Maybe there are only 3 pointing back at me.... don't make assumptions...it will always come back to bite you.
Annalee 10:22 AM 07-25-2014
Originally Posted by LysesKids:
Not everyone who runs unlicensed has something to hide... in my state they won't license me because I take 4 or less kids, and yes i still have over site, but only because I am on food program & I care for Foster kids; I run licensed whenever possible, but even TN has gotten rid of registration for providers not having enough kids to get licensed; thats not my fault... I run like I am licensed still but the state has rules in place that don't always make sense.

AR was the same way... Either take enough kids to get licensed or stay legally license exempt with fewer kids. Registration is really no longer an option because the state thinsk it's to much of a pain to essentially license homes that don't have alot of kids.
You are in my state of TN and licensing will license you for a FCC for up to 7 children if you want.....might not be feesible if you only keep 4 but you can get a license. I am group so I keep 12 + 3 school age with an assistant... If I chose to keep 4 or under, I would avoid licensing and the whole QRIS thing, in my opinion, but you CAN get a license if you desire one.
craftymissbeth 10:22 AM 07-25-2014
Originally Posted by Unregistered:
There are so many laws. Do you know them all? What if you accidentally broke one? Or did something to comply with one law that broke another? I'm just according to the logic everyone is using here, if you did (no one here would because you all know every law on Earth ) you're guilty until proven innocent. As I said before, with anything (not just child care), make sure you're doting your is and crossing your ts, because maybe one day someone will return your favor. As I said, my friend got into a fight with an annoying neighbor (not about daycare) and neighbor turned out to be a lawyer. Every little pinky toe my friend got out of line, there was legal trouble.

http://www.menshealth.com/best-life/crimes Look at this. Most of these I knew, but two shocked me. Did you know all of these things were illegal? I'm just saying, it's all fun and games to call the authorities on people. If you're even in the hot seat don't feel bad.
Before I decided to begin watching children in my home you better believe I made sure it's legal. Not educating yourself about the law is an extremely poor excuse for breaking it. Try again, unreg.
craftymissbeth 10:30 AM 07-25-2014
Originally Posted by Unregistered:
LOL Are you serious? Nice reading comprehension skills. I was BEING SARCASTIC, S T U P I D. Got it? I know that might be too much for your pea brain. P.S. I get most you care, because it's about M O N E Y. Like I said, pat yourself on the back. When the government and CPS is too busy checking on your competition and not on real abuse, give yourself a gold medal.
Hell yeah it's about money... I own a business for the sole purpose of making money, paying my bills, and taking care of my family. Of course I genuinely LOVE my dcks.. I'm very attached to them, but in the end of it all it IS about the money.

If I didn't know better, I'd say you sound a whole lot like our old friend QOTP.
LysesKids 10:32 AM 07-25-2014
Originally Posted by craftymissbeth:
In my previous comment, I mentioned that in my state you have to beicensed if watching children for a total of 20 hours or more per week. I'm referring to ILLEGALLY unlicensed providers. Guess I should have specified again.

And when I say "something to hide"... well, if they're running illegally then THATS something to hide. Ugh, I'm not saying every illegal provider is doing terrible things.., I'm saying that they should be reported because they're doing something ILLEGAL.
...and up to 20 hrs week is limited to 1 kid at 20 hrs or 2 kids at 10 hrs each... I was registered in KCMO right on the border when the laws changed in KS. I understood what you meant about the illegal providers.
LysesKids 10:40 AM 07-25-2014
Originally Posted by Annalee:
You are in my state of TN and licensing will license you for a FCC for up to 7 children if you want.....might not be feesible if you only keep 4 but you can get a license. I am group so I keep 12 + 3 school age with an assistant... If I chose to keep 4 or under, I would avoid licensing and the whole QRIS thing, in my opinion, but you CAN get a license if you desire one.
Tried... turns out if I still had a 750 sq ft ranch home it wouldn't be a problem for licensing even with 4 kids, but a brand new 784 sq ft singlewide is lol.

Yep, I lost getting a license because I moved out of a small home with mold last year and bought a brand new one but unless I can turn it into a doublewide, they won't touch me. I can take vouchers, I'm on food program; I even do respite for foster babies ( that did require the state to do complete background)... heck I even have a federal passport issued after 9/11 and the feds don't leave any criminal records untouched, but nope can't get licensed here unless I sell the house
craftymissbeth 10:41 AM 07-25-2014
Originally Posted by LysesKids:
...and up to 20 hrs week is limited to 1 kid at 20 hrs or 2 kids at 10 hrs each... I was registered in KCMO right on the border when the laws changed in KS. I understood what you meant about the illegal providers.
If you understood, then I'm not getting why you felt I was talking about unlicensed providers in general...since you went on to explain how you're legally unlicensed. If your state lets you run unlicensed then I'm glad for you... I wish I COULD run unlicensed. But my opinion is that if a person is illegally unlicensed then they DO have something to hide. Just my opinion.
Annalee 10:44 AM 07-25-2014
Originally Posted by LysesKids:
Tried... turns out if I still had a 750 sq ft ranch home it wouldn't be a problem for licensing even with 4 kids, but a brand new 784 sq ft singlewide is lol.

Yep, I lost getting a license because I moved out of a small home with mold last year and bought a brand new one but unless I can turn it into a doublewide, they won't touch me. I can take vouchers, I'm on food program; I even do respite for foster babies ( that did require the state to do complete background)... heck I even have a federal passport issued after 9/11 and the feds don't leave any criminal records untouched, but nope can't get licensed here unless I sell the house
Got it! A single-wide is a definite NO-NO for licensing.. Sorry bout that!
Annalee 10:46 AM 07-25-2014
Originally Posted by craftymissbeth:
If you understood, then I'm not getting why you felt I was talking about unlicensed providers in general...since you went on to explain how you're legally unlicensed. If your state lets you run unlicensed then I'm glad for you... I wish I COULD run unlicensed. But my opinion is that if a person is illegally unlicensed then they DO have something to hide. Just my opinion.
Illegally unlicensed do have things to hide and there are lots of those in my county......but if licensing won't fix it, who will???? The state will wait till something bad happens and then it will be like "why didn't someone go in there?"
craftymissbeth 10:51 AM 07-25-2014
Originally Posted by Annalee:
Illegally unlicensed do have things to hide and there are lots of those in my county......but if licensing won't fix it, who will???? The state will wait till something bad happens and then it will be like "why didn't someone go in there?"
Luckily, my two county surveyors are very good about going out to illegally unlicensed providers homes and getting the scoop. It's a completely confidential process here to report them, we do have to have a name and address. I know I've heard that so many areas of the country have problems with licensing being understaffed, but I live in the largest (by size, not population) county in my state and one full time and one part time surveyors do a great job at keeping up. Now, I don't like either of those ladies for personal reasons, but I'll admit they keep up very well.

At my annual inspection in march, I was told that they've been shutting down illegal providers like crazy. Here, it's a $500 fine for every day you run illegally. That's way more money than just getting licensed, so I just don't get it.
MrsSteinel'sHouse 10:53 AM 07-25-2014
Originally Posted by craftymissbeth:

If I didn't know better, I'd say you sound a whole lot like our old friend QOTP.
That is EXACTLY what I was thinking!!
MsLisa 10:53 AM 07-25-2014
...never mind...
daycare 10:56 AM 07-25-2014
Originally Posted by MrsSteinel'sHouse:
That is EXACTLY what I was thinking!!
OMG I thought that same exact thing.....but I thought that it was made were that person was not able to gain access again???
craftymissbeth 10:58 AM 07-25-2014
Originally Posted by daycare:
OMG I thought that same exact thing.....but I thought that it was made were that person was not able to gain access again???
It seems like she came back a time or two using different IP addresses. I have no idea if it's really her, but it could be possible.
melilley 11:02 AM 07-25-2014
Originally Posted by craftymissbeth:
Hell yeah it's about money... I own a business for the sole purpose of making money, paying my bills, and taking care of my family. Of course I genuinely LOVE my dcks.. I'm very attached to them, but in the end of it all it IS about the money.

If I didn't know better, I'd say you sound a whole lot like our old friend QOTP.
I was thinking the same exact thing about QOTP!
KiddieCahoots 11:04 AM 07-25-2014
Originally Posted by craftymissbeth:
If I didn't know better, I'd say you sound a whole lot like our old friend QOTP.
Could beeee.......but then again, most ignoramuses sound like that. .........
Blackcat31 11:09 AM 07-25-2014
Originally Posted by craftymissbeth:
It seems like she came back a time or two using different IP addresses. I have no idea if it's really her, but it could be possible.
Originally Posted by melilley:
I was thinking the same exact thing about QOTP!
Originally Posted by KiddieCahoots:
Could beeee.......but then again, most ignoramuses sound like that. .........
Her speech patterns were more "educated" and didn't contain so many grammatical errors.

She also came with arguable content and not just a bunch of flimsy examples and baseless assumptions.

Also, as "annoying" as she was she didn't resort to name calling until her farewell post.
aDCProvider 11:22 AM 07-25-2014
Guess I haven't been here long enough....who is QOTP?

Also, didn't realize this would start such a heated debate?! I kind of feel bad for getting everyone riled up right before the weekend.
Blackcat31 11:26 AM 07-25-2014
Originally Posted by aDCProvider:
Guess I haven't been here long enough....who is QOTP?

Also, didn't realize this would start such a heated debate?! I kind of feel bad for getting everyone riled up right before the weekend.
No worries.

This is not an old topic. Search illegal child care in the search bar and see how many threads come up.

There are always going to be those couple of subjects that get everyone going so I wouldn't worry about it.

As for Queen of the Playground (QotP)....she was just the latest in a long line of pot stirrers and drama mama's that keeps the forum on it's toes.

People like that are good for two things:

Keeping us entertained and setting a perfect example of what not to do.
aDCProvider 11:30 AM 07-25-2014
Originally Posted by Blackcat31:
No worries.

This is not an old topic. Search illegal child care in the search bar and see how many threads come up.

There are always going to be those couple of subjects that get everyone going so I wouldn't worry about it.

As for Queen of the Playground (QotP)....she was just the latest in a long line of pot stirrers and drama mama's that keeps the forum on it's toes.

People like that are good for two things:

Keeping us entertained and setting a perfect example of what not to do.
Oh, I do remember her, must have missed her last words, don't remember any drama like that!
LysesKids 11:35 AM 07-25-2014
Originally Posted by craftymissbeth:
If you understood, then I'm not getting why you felt I was talking about unlicensed providers in general...since you went on to explain how you're legally unlicensed. If your state lets you run unlicensed then I'm glad for you... I wish I COULD run unlicensed. But my opinion is that if a person is illegally unlicensed then they DO have something to hide. Just my opinion.
I get the illegal part, but some people didn't know there was a difference until this thread started... The thread started out as would you turn unlicensed providers in, it didn't say illegal unlicensed and somewhere along the line alot of people who didn't know there are actually two different types of unlicensed figured it out.

I myself have been turned in when i was in complete compliance because someone didn't know the rules - they assumed providers posting on CL in Kansas city had to follow the new KS rules; I literally lived one block off state line in MO and was a registered provider that took vouchers. People were turning all unlicensed providers in regardless of which side of border you lived in... it still happens because people assume instead of looking up reg's
Blackcat31 11:40 AM 07-25-2014
TONS of other threads about this subject.

https://www.daycare.com/forum/showthread.php?t=71991

https://www.daycare.com/forum/tags.p...egal+providers

https://www.daycare.com/forum/tags.p...llegal+daycare
Annalee 11:41 AM 07-25-2014
Originally Posted by LysesKids:
I get the illegal part, but some people didn't know there was a difference until this thread started... The thread started out as would you turn unlicensed providers in, it didn't say illegal unlicensed and somewhere along the line alot of people who didn't know there are actually two different types of unlicensed figured it out.

I myself have been turned in when i was in complete compliance because someone didn't know the rules - they assumed providers posting on CL in Kansas city had to follow the new KS rules; I literally lived one block off state line in MO and was a registered provider that took vouchers. People were turning all unlicensed providers in regardless of which side of border you lived in... it still happens because people assume instead of looking up reg's
It is so easy to cheat on the rules if you are unlicensed....many are on the food program and count children as related when they are NOT so they can keep more kids.....just like the old saying "a few bad apples spoil the bunch". THe rule is here you can keep 4 non-related and as many as you want related with no guidelines.....and NO ONE checks it! I have to pay annual health fee, business license, daycare license, property tax, meet material demands of QRIS, etc... and these illegal providers have to do NOTHING!!!!! But NO ONE will check it out!!!!!
melilley 11:43 AM 07-25-2014
Originally Posted by LysesKids:
I get the illegal part, but some people didn't know there was a difference until this thread started... The thread started out as would you turn unlicensed providers in, it didn't say illegal unlicensed and somewhere along the line alot of people who didn't know there are actually two different types of unlicensed figured it out.

I didn't know that there was a difference until I came to this forum. In my state you have to be licensed/registered if you care for any unrelated children and I just assumed that it was the same in every state.
Heidi 11:49 AM 07-25-2014
Originally Posted by LysesKids:
I get the illegal part, but some people didn't know there was a difference until this thread started... The thread started out as would you turn unlicensed providers in, it didn't say illegal unlicensed and somewhere along the line alot of people who didn't know there are actually two different types of unlicensed figured it out.

I myself have been turned in when i was in complete compliance because someone didn't know the rules - they assumed providers posting on CL in Kansas city had to follow the new KS rules; I literally lived one block off state line in MO and was a registered provider that took vouchers. People were turning all unlicensed providers in regardless of which side of border you lived in... it still happens because people assume instead of looking up reg's
My apologies to the OP if she simply meant unlicensed. As long as it's legally unlicensed, I have no issues with it.

Me, I don't go out of my way to sleuth around wondering who's legal and who's not. It's really only when it's blatant (like everybody talks about how so-and-so has 15 kids or if she's advertising "I don't do tax time claiming") that I bother. If my next door neighbor cared for 3 kids under age 7 normally, and one day I saw she had 4, I wouldn't call 911. If I knew they were parked in front of the TV all day eating Cheetos in a filthy house, while she was in the other room watching soaps, or playing outside unattended, I would probably report it.

Some people here will say 4 or 15...doesn't matter. I'm more "spirit of the law" than "letter of the law" myself, but that's just how I roll.
LysesKids 11:53 AM 07-25-2014
Originally Posted by MsLisa:
Not to change the topic but.....
Turns out, after to some internet digging, the woman who asked me about my license/ratio.... is an owner of licensed daycare 20 min away from me! What nerve! She posts on the same CL and everything. But seriously, is it really that cut throat? I mean I would never do that! I got my ducks in a row, why bother me? *sigh*
Sorry some providers go that far... I had a center in AR open right down the street 3 years ago that wanted to know how I ran, what I charged etc.. (owner called me direct). It's all right there on my website people. Don't expect me to explain the Eco certs to you, you'll have to earn that one yourself lol

Seriously, was I that big of a threat to a 50 + kid center ( I had 5 kids at most) because I was within .5 miles? Apparently I was, she set her rates to undercut mine - she was out of business within 2 months also lol.
Tags:illegal providers, legally exempt, legally unlicensed, licensed providers, unlicensed providers
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