For those of you who have read my past threads on my recent Licensing Complaint and how my appeal was handled -

Just when I thought the insults were behind me ...

Today I received the second of two huge manilla envelopes - this one sent directly from my licensing analyst, containing yet another 20 pages of photocopied articles from the internet and Headstart which address appropriate discipline for toddlers (same basic information all over again which of course, suggested "verbally expressing behavior expectations" and "time out/removing the child for a minute or two" to short-circuit the undesired behavior - which is, of course, exactly what I got a citation for. (Apparently, they didn't think the first 20 pages were sufficient.) But this time it didn't stop there ...

Also included was a flyer (hand-highlighted!) which advertised local classes on Anger Management and a flyer from Catholic Charities for a sliding-scale personal counselor.

No ... I am not kidding ... I wish I was.

Someone help me check myself here, please. No one has ever complained or observed me losing my self-control with any child in my care. That inference wasn't even brought up in the investigation about the time-outs I gave the terminated child in this case.

Am I crazy or is this over-reaction bordering on personal harassment? I feel like my personal character is being attacked ... and by someone who doesn't even know me and has never observed me behave any other way than professional. Can they really do this?

I don't understand ... someone enlighten me. Like the Energizer Bunny - it just keeps going, and going, and ...

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YOU ARE NOT CRAZY !! It is the most violating and insulting feeling you can imagine. (I responded to your original post, telling my story about the little girl who was hit in the eye with a ball, and mom called DHS who brought CPS to investigate abuse).

We told our DHS monitor that it was personal harassment and slander (they had to call our other DCP to see if they had noticed anything odd). That qualifies as slander in my book.

The part that gets me, is that it is so one sided - you just have to sit there and take it. Someone can say whatever they want about you and file a completely unsubstantial complaint , and you are just a sitting duck.

I almost get the feeling, that the supervisor who wrote you the letter before - somehow has taken the DCM's side or heard her story first and is inclined to believe her. It also (to me) sounds like she is not getting an accurate depiction of what happened.

I have told your story to no less than 3 people, who were all shocked. A former daycare client, said to me "Well what about the personal rights of the children his actions were endangering ? Do the other children in care not have personal rights ? It makes me want to write a book. Good grief.

I am so incredibly sympathetic to you right now. I am so sorry this is happening.

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You should contact a lawyer. I think you may have a case. This worker seems to think that you have anger issues but what I don't understand is why because it was not in the original complaint. Have you received the written complaint yet? Did it say anything about anger? It sounds to me like she either knows the parent (had that happen before after terming a client and it was ridiculous although I still came out fine) or that when she came to start the investigation on you she was offended by something you said or did. I'm not saying you did anything but I once had a worker get upset because I called her the wrong name twice. I was busy working with the kids as she was doing my yearly unannounced spot check and because I didn't coddle her and forgot her name she felt I was rude to her. I didn't know I was supposed to offer her tea and biscuits!

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(((sigh))) ... thanks. I read your story too and felt the same for you. The whole system of checks and balances is just not working, in my opinion.

and I am finally beyond the point of looking for comfort with it - (SO many wonderful providers here reached out and have given support!) ... but now I think that the State has stepped outside the box and is attacking my personal character without provocation.

I used to be a Store Manager for Starbucks - can you imagine if I had been coached and written up because a customer complained that I was rude to them during a visit to my store (whether I agreed or not) and was told that I needed to do things differently moving forward ... then two months later sent me a packet to my home address with information hand highlighted on local anger management classes and personal counseling??? They could never get away with that. Can you say lawsuit?

I'm just sitting here with my jaw on the floor ...

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I have no advice for you. I just want to offer support. That is something I couldn't imagine, and it would make me start rethinking my career choice.

The only worse feeling than people implying that you may be mentally unstable, is the fact that people are not trusting that you are taking good care of the children.

Just keep your head up. These people are a$$holes and have nothing better to do but abuse thr copy machine. ((hugs))

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The truly sad thing about all this is that before long, the good providers who pull their hair out trying to keep up with and follow all these nutty rules are going to give up. All that will be left are the cheap, watch TV all day, with 25 kids, smoke on the porch type providers that are operating outside the law.

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you need to go above the person who is sending you this stuff. Call a lawyer, this isn't right. I'm a person who would go down to the office and make a public appearance. I would also ask for cps for their reconds and go above their heads. I'm mean but I would make that mom who called and caused all this stink, make her life hell too. I would call cps and make a complaint on her (selfish and pety but she needs to see how it feels) I would also find out if the child is in another daycare and talk to them. See if mom has said something.

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Absolutely make a stink about this OP

but do NOT call CPS out of vengence. That is horrible advice countrymom and I am not afraid to call you out on it. CPS is there for children that need help....not immature adults seeking revenge....shame on you for suggesting that.

Focus on getting your name cleared as best as possible OP and do not let this situation bring out the worst in you.

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This, unfortunately has already begun to happen where i live. It's really scary when I see what is happening here.

Kimberli, I read your other thread but never had a chance to comment. I don't really have any advice, but just feel really terrible for you. This is one of the most insane things I have ever heard. I do agree with the others about contacting a lawyer. Something just isn't right here, and you need to fight this the proper way. I know this is a very hard and difficult situation for you, but don't let them get away with attacking your character this way with the anger management talk, fight it, legally.

I am just so very sorry you are having to deal with this. Hugs.

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I have always wondered if we are allowed to contact and/or discuss a child/family in care with another known previous or present provider. Is that legal? It seems like breathing in California breaks some type of rule! I have the child's previous daycare listed in my records and truly wanted to reach out to them just to see if they had any issues with said family but felt it wouldn't be just?!?

Mom had told me that where child was prior to my care was a woman with only her own older children and I had no reason to doubt it at that time, but now I have researched on my end only to find the lady was licensed for 14 kids by the State ... hmmmmm.

I have no idea where he is in care right now, but I feel for his new provider immensely. If everyone in the State of California just 'terms' kids who need constant redirection like my Licensing Analyst suggested I should have done, then these parents will find themselves playing daycare roulette. I hope DCM doesn't do to someone else what she's done here ... but then again, maybe that would show her true colors.

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Thanks. ... I was really just to the point of cutting my losses and letting sleeping dogs lie and accepting the fact that I might be denied my application to expand this year, but they just won't stop with the badgering about how 'broken' I am as a provider - and now as a person. I was moving on, but once again, I feel like I have to decide whether to just swallow my pride and turn the other cheek or consider fighting. I just HATE to stir the pot and make my own life more miserable. This has been hard for my entire family. But ... I do think I owe it to myself to at least seek a lawyer's perspective. If they tell me this is acceptable, I will just have to be the bigger person ... again.

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so they cited you for correcting the child and removing him from the situation for a minute or 2 ( time out) AND then sent literature telling you that is what you should do?

I would ask for clarification on that for sure. Send it to the rep and supervisor and the investigating person

something like this. I am confused. I was cited for verbally correcting a child under 2 and removing him from the situation for ---- minutes ( time out)
But now I was sent literature on how I should have handled the situation and that is what it says to do.

so I may not tell a child no. I may not remove him from the area when he is violent. But I am to verbally tell him it is not allowed and remove him from the area to reset his thinking? This seems to be the samee thing just written in a better way.

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As everyone else has said, I'm sorry this bizarre stuff is happening. I would definitely address the information in the packaging. It may turn out that this woman is doing on her own for some odd purpose but is outside the operating parameters for licensing.

It leads me to something I've wondered about. I know that complaints against a provider are usually left on your public record (in most states, I guess.) But, is there a record of the mom who apparently had the most abused child in history if her record of complaints could be tracked? It seems like repeated complaints should be taken into consideration.

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This is CA for you.

DO NOT go down to licensing and confront these people. That will only blow up in your face. DO NOT call CPS on this mother, that will also come back to haunt you.

Wait until the person you need to speak to returns this month. Just continue to document every single little thing you get from licensing.

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Kimberli....

I would definitley be contacting an attorney. You ARE being harrassed.

Would you please refresh my memory and tell me EXACTLY what the licensor wrote on your investigation paperwork. I would like to do some research for you.

Big hugs and hang in there.

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Ditto the others--this is harassment and you need legal help.

I'm sorry you're going through this. I can barely imagine how stressful and upsetting this must be.

I hope this works out in your favor, quickly.

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Agree with this OP.

And frankly, I'm not sure why you haven't done so already.


I also don't understand why you haven't gotten a second opinion from someone even further up the chain of command.

I would absolutely not stand for being treated that way.

Not only would I be all over licensing (in a very respectful but persistent way slowly working my way up) but I'd be retaining a lawyer and suing as well. Period.



Being the bigger person has nothing to do with bending over........

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I agree with this. I would NOT let this situation simply go...It was bad enough what has happened so far. Maybe your analyst did not realize her supervisor already sent out a packet of paperwork and they didn't mean to be duplicating it. I've experienced MAJOR communication issues when dealing with CA licensing!

However, that being said, I would definitely address the fact that you received both of them and insist on a "face to face" with the Manager of that office, as well as, the supervisor and analyst involved.

Years ago, I had an issue with an analyst harassing me and behaving in a very unprofessional manner and tried to handle it through certified letters to her supervisor. It basically went nowhere and I insisted on all parties involved sit down with me and their manager to discuss the problem in person. By getting all parties together, it was easy to go through my list of bullet points and address each one individually and write down a specific response to them. I even told them I was tape recording the entire meeting, because I wanted proof of what transpired. I never had to hire an attorney and the situation resolved itself once I became "proactive" and did this. They realized that I truly wanted to comply and wanted clear and concise answers to their conflicting information on regs.

Because they cited you for doing what it appears the literature they are sending you "says to do"...I would most definitely be asking some specific questions!

Best of luck!

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You can contact anyone you want and at this point it might be helpful to collect any information you can. When I had my horrible experience, I was able to find out that a previous provider had an issue with this same daycare dad, who'd filed a bogus complaint on me too and it was useful to bring this to the table, when I had my meeting with them.

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I also believe that there was more to the complaint than just saying you put the child in time out. If they are addressing "anger management" they were likely told by this parent that something more went on. It just doesn't add up that they would do this for no reason. I would definitely be asking some pertinent questions in regards to this too!

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I would call them and talk to them. What happens if she did this to them too. Maybe she has a history of doing this.

when the bus driver called on me, I was so shocked. here was a lady who only saw me for 2 weeks and called cas on me. I never talked to this women face to face or anything. cas works so slow here, but it was agonizing because I could have lost everything over a comment. (my kids who were 7,9 and 11 where misbehaving and I said to the bus driver jokingly that she can spank the kids if they misbehave on the bus) well she called and told cas that I said that I beat my children. I knew who called right away. So I started to do some digging. Apparently she called on alot of people, cas was busy out here. bus driver lost her job.

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I am so sorry you are going through this. The only thing that I want to add that I don't think was said is that I absolutly would NOT call any other providers who cared for this child. IMHO the mom can turn it into you stalking the child. I know and every sane person would know thats not what it is but the mom could spin it that way. Just my thought

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agree ... and this is exactly how I am choosing to roll right now.

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I appealed the original citation to the Licensing Supervisor - it took over a month but in response, I received a berating letter reprimanding me and suggesting that I needed to completely review my business and my discipline policy and consider whether I am even 'fit' to watch children under the age of 3.

I then contacted the Child Care Law Advocate for So. Cal. and she is out of her office without a replacement until the end of October.

Subsequently, large packets of data on discipline have been sent to me - first from the Licensing office and more recently from my Licensing Analyst. The packets were different articles & brochures, but contained the same sort of material. The second packet had the suggestion of Anger Management Classes, Cooperative Parenting Classes and a flyer on Catholic Charities Personal Counseling.

I recontacted the Child Care Law Center and all they really gave me was a referral for the bar association for legal representation. I am not really in the financial position to hire an attorney, but I am hoping to at least have a consultation somewhere and get a 'legal' perspective.

I am also going to contact the Child Care Advocate when she returns the end of this month.

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My Investigation Report Citation of 8/17/12 reads:

Deficiencies:

102423(a)(1) Personal Rights. Each child receiving services from a family child care home shall be accorded dignity in his/her personal relationships with staff, residents and other persons. Child #1 was placed in time-out multiple times in a day because of the child's behavior.

Plan of Correction:

The licensee has terminated the child as of 8/8/12 and the parent was given a refund for the last 3 days of the week. The licensee has to submit to CCL a written discipline plan on how she is going to handle difficult children in the future so as not to violate the children's rights. Send this to CCL by 8/17/12

Contact RCOE for additional literature on disciplining of children.

... I appreciate your support. Really, really.

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When I was going through my ordeal, I had NO idea these resources were out there. I also had no financial means to hire an attorney and felt my only recourse was to meet this situation head on. I was not going to allow lies and slanderous statements from a malicious individual go on record without a fight for justice. I absolutely despise and resist confrontation and avoid it at all cost.

However, I was pleasantly surprised once I met with the licensing personnel in person and the manager heard me out with his subordinates present. I was respectful, but insisted on some answers and fortunately they realized they were very wrong in their treatment of me and did a complete 180.

If I had realized there was someone who would fight this situation on my behalf, I know I would have contacted them in a heart beat. It sucks that you have to wait, but be patient and don't let it eat away at you or stress you out. I always believe & trust that the truth will prevail!

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I'm sorry....BUT this really makes me crazy, especially since you said the literature they sent you specifically says to do just what you did?!?!

I just don't see how you don't have a case against them harassing you & contradicting themselves????

People must be held accountable for their actions and this licensing office is definitely in need of a reality check!

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DITTO this. It does sound to me that the parent some how knows someone in licensing or the analyst personally.

I WOULD get an attorney. We ALL have a right to be protected legally ESP when your profession is at stake. If they REALLY feel that they you violated that child's rights and endangered him then they can tell it to a judge!!

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In California at least, we are never allowed to see the complaint or even know who complained about us. We can't read it, we can't look at it - we only get to answer questions that are asked directly to us by the analyst who is investigating the complaint.

My analyst never mentioned anything about anger. I have never been anything but courteous to her during her visits, though she never shows me the same respect in return. She is rude, cold and attempts to be intimidating whenever possible.

This time when she was investigating this complaint, two of my adult daughters were in the kitchen having coffee when she came. One who is 22 lives with me, the 20 year old was visiting. The analyst made a point of telling me that it wasn't really appropriate for my daughters to be 'visiting' during daycare hours because my responsibility was to the children in my care, and they would be a distraction from what I was supposed to be doing. I guess she forgot this is their kitchen too.

She must really be a miserable woman. I do feel for someone who is so unhappy. But ... that certainly doesn't mean that it's okay for her to take out her own issues on myself and my family.

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She probably didn't want an adult witness to her behavior.

After reading both these threads I'm wondering if you can find an attorney who would take this on a contingency basis. Definitely worth looking into.

All of this makes me glad I don't live in California .

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IN CA you're guilty until proven innocent. You have no rights, IMHO. You can't know who your accussor is, can't know what the complaint is. Even a criminal has the right to face their accussor in court and to know what the accussation is.

When I had my last inspection, my 18 yo granddaughter was here. My analyst said hello to her when I introduced her. He said, "Be sure to get her fingerprinted so she can be left alone with the kids." She had turned 18 the week before.

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Yep. So true.

And both of my girls are fingerprinted and attached to my home.

She said the same thing to me ... "in case you ever want to leave the kids alone with them." My response was that I would not do that because they aren't CPR/First Aid certified.

They can't drink coffee in the kitchen ... but they can watch my 6 daycare kids.

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I truly feel sorry you are in this predicament. I think your documentation of the stuff they were sending you is grounds for an appeal. Is it too late to appeal??? Honestly, I am not sure about a lawsuit. Yes, you have every right to be insulted, but I'm not sure the state was negligent, libel, or harassing. The licensing person, however, is very unprofessional. Her comments about your adult daughters is way out of line. I an not sure if anyone has suggested this yet, but can you file a complaint with her supervisors?

If california wants to outlaw use if time out altogether, so be it. Until then, I feel it is their duty to set more definable guidelines. If their literature directly contradicts their citation they gave you, sounds like an appeal is do-able and win-able. Curious to know if the highlighted literature they sent you makes any mention of multiple time outs, as opposed to one time use? So just to be clear....does any of the regs DIRECTLY state multiple time outs and/or use of time outs under two years of age is expressly prohibited? So confusing.......

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[quote=countrymom;269627]...... I would call cps and make a complaint on her (selfish and pety but she needs to see how it feels) I would also find out if the child is in another daycare and talk to them.

In my state, making a false or misleading report to DCF is a crime.

Calling around to find the child in another daycare could also be considered harassment or stalking, also a crime.

Sorry, totally unprofessional. Shockingly so, in fact.

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Two months before my child turned 18, I was told to get the paperwork in for her background check so that it would get done. If it wasn't done she couldn't live in the house!!!!!

Ticked me because they left before the kids got here and came home after childcare hours. Made me soooooooooooooo

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