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  #1  
Old 08-18-2011, 09:29 PM
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Default State Licenser Visit from Heck!!!

Hi, I have been a licensed and certified family child provider for 9 years now and have been providing daycare another 15 years. I have had 6 new licensors. Today was visit # 2 for this licensor this year. I can't believe some of the things that I got written up for! My biggest hit was her telling me that my 12 yr old daughter can no longer, hold any children, take any care of them , no disipline (when I'm in the other room), no diaper changes and no feeding babies bottles and can't walk SA children to or from school. She had her babysitting certificate and would never be left alone w/dckiddos. She is devastated!!!!! I got wrote up because my 5yr old dcb and my 8yr olf dcg were using sippy cup lids, they usually don't but we have temporarily moved our kids table into carpeted area, not because they don't know how to use a cup!!!! I forgot to wash my new 6wk old dcb's hands after diaper change!! I was written up for just rinsing cups w/water at lunchtime. I am to wash w/dishsoap and hot water at every refill. A child I hadn't had in a month, came back today @ 9:30 a.m. with a body/arm cast, and when licensor looked in my medical journal @ 10:00a.m. I had not written that info in yet. I could go on and on and on...... about everything she wrote me up for and verbally acoust me with. I about told her to shove the license you know where. If I didn't love my dckiddos so..... much! I can't stand the thought of losing any of them! Sorry for the length of words, but I really needed to vent.

Last edited by Michael; 08-18-2011 at 10:25 PM.
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Old 08-18-2011, 10:22 PM
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Welcome to the Forum!
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Old 08-18-2011, 11:09 PM
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um...wow.

Others will add this, too, but you need to ask them to show you these regs in writing. Sounds like someone (not you...) was having a terrible day and was, to put it nicely, losing touch with reality a bit.

It has never, in my entire life, occurred to me to wash an infant's hands after a diaper change...if it weren't VERY late I'd have even more to say. But perhaps it's better I don't, lol.

What insanity!

And, welcome to the forum.
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Old 08-19-2011, 12:07 AM
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I have never been written up for anything in 11 years of being licensed but the visit I had 3 years ago,I remember being so afraid of what the kids would do, I just made them all sit down and read to them the whole time while she did her
inspection. She thought I was the greatest thing since sliced bread but inside I was shaking and my heart was pounding.
Some licensers are very power hungry and like to mess with you.
My best advise is to be very nice and ask them if you could fix things before she leaves maybe she won't write it down.
I have never heard of an age limit on sippy cups, or why you would have to keep a medical record for injuries that didn't happen at your home.
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Old 08-19-2011, 05:10 AM
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Originally Posted by Karen's Castle View Post
My biggest hit was her telling me that my 12 yr old daughter can no longer, hold any children, take any care of them , no discipline (when I'm in the other room), no diaper changes and no feeding babies bottles and can't walk SA children to or from school.

This 12 year old would count into my ratios.

I got wrote up because my 5yr old dcb and my 8yr old dcg were using sippy cup lids, they usually don't but we have temporarily moved our kids table into carpeted area, not because they don't know how to use a cup!!!!

I have the same regs. I no longer keep kids past age four because of the School Age regs.

I forgot to wash my new 6wk old dcb's hands after diaper change!!

Same reg here. You have to take them to warm running water and wash with soap every diaper change BUT the soap container cannot be within their reach.

I was written up for just rinsing cups w/water at lunchtime. I am to wash w/dish soap and hot water at every refill.

Ours is warm, soapy water with bleach added at each refill. I now prefill 3 cups, labeled per child (water, juice, milk) before they arrive then toss in dishwasher after use.. MUCH easier.

A child I hadn't had in a month, came back today @ 9:30 a.m. with a body/arm cast, and when licensor looked in my medical journal @ 10:00a.m.
I had not written that info in yet.

I understand. I had notary seals expire once (within 30 days of getting them ) without noticing. That deemed some child forms invalid...was written up as if they were never even in existence.

I could go on and on and on...... about everything she wrote me up for and verbally acoust me with..
I am sorry that happened. It is getting really hard to stay in this business with the constant changing of rules and regs.

After 17 years in business without an injury or complaint, I have never had issues until this past year, suddenly out of the blue.

I hope your weekend goes better
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Old 08-19-2011, 08:39 AM
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If you do not see her "violations" in the WRITTEN rules.......don't accept them. Each state is different (for example, we only have to wash a diapered child's hands if they touched fecal matter during the change.) A licensor can not write you up on their whim or their opinion.

In the past 25 years I have only had one licensing inspection that went badly. She was in a bad mood and wrote me up on things I knew were bogus. (My eldest adult son lived in the house at the time, but did not help in the day care in any way,,,,but she wrote me up because he did not have first aid training or a food handlers permit.) She told that because he picked up one of the day care babies in front of her and said "Hi Sweetie" that he had to have all the same training etc as I did. He had the background check as he lived in the house and that was all he needed. I wrote to head office and they rescinded it. Never settle if you think it's not fair.

If it's not specifically written in the regs...they can't write you up. What they "think" doesn't matter.

Another thing she wrote me up on was that my husband was my helper and his first aid and cpr card was just barely out of date. She wrote me up. But the reg says "at least one provider must have first aid and cpr" Mine was up to date. My husband didn't even have to have one at all! Again...it was rescinded by HQ.

I know my regs inside and out and know I can argue head to head if necessary. At my last surprise inspection we got 100% perfect. But she almost wrote me up on something (don't remember what) and then said "Oh! Sorry! that's a center reg...not home day care....I get so confused!!" So they are only human too! Never just sit there. Question them if you think it's bogus.

ASK TO SEE THE WRITTEN REG.
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Old 08-19-2011, 08:45 AM
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And this folks, is why I won't get licensed. I would rather keep fewer children and not deal with a a license.
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Old 08-19-2011, 09:09 AM
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And this folks, is why I won't get licensed. I would rather keep fewer children and not deal with a a license.
Ditto. Good Lord.
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Old 08-19-2011, 09:24 AM
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I am sorry that happened to you. I would look up the exact rules in the book and try to find ways to make them easy to follow. Some are very silly.
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Old 08-19-2011, 09:43 AM
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Ditto. Good Lord.
Yup, Double Ditto...Yikes you guys!! I am super proud of those certified!! If I was made to be here in AZ I would too. But I don't bc of these very things plus, I can only handle 4...not to mention my 2. I'd go nutz. Hats off to all of you Certified Providers!! I hope you all have a Wonderful Fri. Sorry OP that your Lic. visit went the way it did. I agree with all the rest. Ck your reg's. in writing to make sure there legit and call lic. to have them corrected. I am not sure how that works on correcting if there's been an error. Sorry this happened to you!!
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Old 08-19-2011, 10:12 AM
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are the 5 and 8 year olds that don't know how to use cups special needs? If so a note from parents or doctors saying they are unable to use a regular cup should help you. If not I would be making this a goal. With some of my kids over the years I have to be one to wean them off the sippy cup and it seems like there is a trend to keep kids on them longer and longer by the parents.

If you can't break them right now consider getting them reusable sports bottles that are more age appropriate for that group.
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Old 08-19-2011, 10:25 AM
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I'm curious about this sippy cup matter too. I don't allow cups beyond the hard wood floor (milk and juice) but I do allow water cups. I have a 3.5 yo DCG that is very clumsy. When she started, DCM told me give her all drinks out of a sippy. I'm not going to go against a parents request...especially when it's so minor.

Also, do cups with lids and straws violate this regulation too?!

All kids grow and mature differently. JMO but who is the state to say that by the time a child hits a certain age, they must only be allowed drinks out of regular cups?!
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Old 08-19-2011, 12:04 PM
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I think so many of the states rules are just stupid. Every year at re-licensing time I think about quiting because I dread the visit. I get very very crabby for weeks just thinking about it because I know that my licensor will come up with some new dumb rule they want me to follow. For the first 16 years of childcare my licensor never came up with anything, but then I got a new lic. and boy he just loved to find something petty to write me up on, otherwise he was not doing his job. When I said I was just going to quit daycare he said "oh no, don't do that, your one of the good ones" I laughed and said really, then why the pettiness. He said because it is one of the rules and sited examples of why it was a rule. BTW, the thing I was fighting was that he wanted locks put on my two sons rooms. They were then 18 & 19. He said if they were not in their bedroom that the doors had to be locked. Even thought their bedrooms were upstairs were no kids were allowed, and I had to have a gate blocking the stairway. I yi yi, it drives me crazy.
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Old 08-19-2011, 12:11 PM
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Wow I thought CA had some crazy regs to follow... but after reading OP, I'm thinking it's crazy everywhere! Just a different kind of crazy!!!!

Try not to let it get you discouraged!
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Old 08-19-2011, 12:19 PM
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They have to add and change the rules each year, because it's job security for someone at state level. Stupid...but true.

Our state is only allowed to make changes once a year. Any new regs are in force on January 1st each year. I check the written rules about every four to six months. Right before my scheduled visit and during the year. I go over each and every one. That way I KNOW I am 100% in compliance when I get a visit.

An inspector can talk up a storm all they want. If they can't back it up and show me that exact thing written in black and white in the regs...then it's just hot air and heaven help anyone who tried to write me up on it.

I am well known by the licensing staff here in my county. They know I run a good day care and they know I know the regs as well as they do and that I am not shy in standing my ground. So they don't mess with me.
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Old 08-19-2011, 01:01 PM
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Bless your heart! I'm so sorry this happened... I'm waiting on mine to show up anyday now and of course like a previous poster said I'm crabby and nervous on how my kiddos will act, ugh. My husband says (cause he's not here lol) that "you can't help how they will act" however, it just looks really bad when they do and reflects on us as providers. Hope you have a good weekend!
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Old 08-19-2011, 01:20 PM
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I can totally understand the licensor having an issue with the OP's 12 year old having those responsibilities......she should not be disciplingin the children, she should not be walking them to/from school alone, she should not be changing diapers. The other stuff with the 12 year old seems out of line, but the ones I listed would be HUGE no-no's here.

I also think, regardless of where in the house the children sit, that 5 and 8 is way too old for a sippy cup...ridiculous to be written up for it, but I understand the licensor being irritated by it.

The other stuff is petty, but I totally understand being written up for the 12 year old having such high levels of responsibility with other people's children.
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Old 08-19-2011, 01:26 PM
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I agree Crystal in that those responsibilities are not what I would want for my daughter, but it is fully legal and ordinary in many places. This is straight from the resource center.

Babysitter Safety - What Parents and Sitters Need to Know

How do I go about choosing a babysitter?

Get a trusted friend or family member if possible.
Get recommendations from friends.
Trade childcare with friends who have kids.
Do not hire a sitter under age 12.
Watch your child’s reaction when you tell them a sitter they know is coming, and listen to what your child says about the sitter afterward.
Meet the sitter in advance, and check references.
Make sure he or she knows CPR and first aid.
Ask whether young sitters have taken the American Red Cross babysitter class. If not, encourage them to take it. If you have a sitter aged 12 to 15 that you like, offer to pay for them to take the class. (the OP's daughter had this)
Have them spend time with you and your kids, and see how they interact with the kids. A good strategy is to hire them first as a “mother’s or father’s helper,” and have them watch the kids while you are home getting something done.
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Old 08-19-2011, 01:35 PM
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Originally Posted by Catherder View Post
I agree Crystal in that those responsibilities are not what I would want for my daughter, but it is fully legal and ordinary in many places. This is straight from the resource center.

Babysitter Safety - What Parents and Sitters Need to Know

How do I go about choosing a babysitter?

Get a trusted friend or family member if possible.
Get recommendations from friends.
Trade childcare with friends who have kids.
Do not hire a sitter under age 12.
Watch your child’s reaction when you tell them a sitter they know is coming, and listen to what your child says about the sitter afterward.
Meet the sitter in advance, and check references.
Make sure he or she knows CPR and first aid.
Ask whether young sitters have taken the American Red Cross babysitter class. If not, encourage them to take it. If you have a sitter aged 12 to 15 that you like, offer to pay for them to take the class. (the OP's daughter had this)
Have them spend time with you and your kids, and see how they interact with the kids. A good strategy is to hire them first as a “mother’s or father’s helper,” and have them watch the kids while you are home getting something done.
Oh, I realize it is okay to babysit at 12, but I have never heard of any licensing agency allowing them to participate in Daycare care of children. That's why I can understand the licensor writing that up.
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Old 08-19-2011, 01:43 PM
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Oh, I realize it is okay to babysit at 12, but I have never heard of any licensing agency allowing them to participate in Daycare care of children. That's why I can understand the licensor writing that up.
Gotcha....

I googled it before I responded this morning.... I thought the same thing you did. I wanted to make sure you knew it, too.

Here they have to be 18 and fingerprinted to help me with actual hands on care.
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Old 08-19-2011, 02:51 PM
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Gotcha....

I googled it before I responded this morning.... I thought the same thing you did. I wanted to make sure you knew it, too.

Here they have to be 18 and fingerprinted to help me with actual hands on care.
Different in every state of course! Here helpers must be above 16 and have direct supervision. My 16 year old helps us out on Fridays when school is out and when my numbers are lower, so my son or I can have a three day weekend. But she can never be left alone (other than bathroom breaks).
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Old 08-19-2011, 03:07 PM
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Different in every state of course! Here helpers must be above 16 and have direct supervision. My 16 year old helps us out on Fridays when school is out and when my numbers are lower, so my son or I can have a three day weekend. But she can never be left alone (other than bathroom breaks).
It definitley is different in every state. Here, your assistant can be as young as 14, but not left alone with the children. But, just because they can, doesn't mean they should, if you KWIM.

My own children have always helped in the daycare, as they choose, but have never been allowed, even at 18, to discipline them, change their diapers, etc. I feel the parents pay me to do those things. My children are just additional playmates and an extra pair of eyes.
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Old 08-19-2011, 09:43 PM
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I run a FAMILY DAYCARE, every member in my household has interactions with my DCkids. They are taking everything that makes my daycare mine and turning it into a house with center rules. My 12 year old daughter is a big part of their lives, she is of course not allowed to take over care, she was just trying to save trouble. As far as her changing diapers, she had just passed her Babysitting course and was excited to hold the baby and yes occasionally change diapers with me standing right beside her.
The Licensor said that by allowing SA children to use sippy lids on tupperware cups was causing them to have a developmental issues, these kids most of the time don't use them, they all know how to drink from cups! I just had to temporarily move the kids table into carpeted area. Between it being the third day w/6wk old and first day 2 yr old with body cast w/ arm cast. I just wanted to save just a little mess/stress for myself.
I DID ask her to show me where in the rules it states especially about my daughter and she just showed me the definition of PROVIDER and said that it was just so... obvious that it doesn't need to be in the policy book.
I'm not looking for sympathy, I just needed to vent and just say how SAD, that my family daycare is just falling apart just because of how one person interpretated the rules! SAD!! btw I am going to slowly let families go as they turn SA and in 2 years I will be so.. happy not to be put in these situations again. I am allowed to care for 3 children without being regulated.
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Old 08-19-2011, 10:10 PM
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Sorry to hear about your inspection! It makes me nervous for when I get licensed. I want to have 7 kids because less than that it gets boring and the day gets long. I need to keep busy. Vent all you need to because it helps us providers realize all the little bumps in the road to watch out for. Remember tomorrow is a NEW day. I would argue about the sippy cups because you probably had newer carpeting and it was probably only for a week. The kids were old enough to answer if the sippy's were just for the week or not because that wouldn't cause them issues. I personally would have just had my shampoo machine for the carpet ready to go or told parents they would be using sippy cups for the week unless it was water. I see it both ways for the 12 year old daughter helping and i'm sure it broke her heart. You could always check into your rules and just let them know you saw it from her babysitter's certificate point of view and was your helper, yet still apologize if the rules are clear that she wasn't suppose to help at all. It looks better if you show them you want to better your daycare and will take pointers, but I wouldn't let everything slide.
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Old 08-20-2011, 02:12 PM
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Our observer was just here this week (for us to move up in our states quality rating system), and at a very bad time of day. She came during nap time and one 3 y old was awake (fighting nap like crazy because someone new was there and she wanted to see her.

We knew if we let her up to play, she would fight nap every day and expect to be able to get up from that day on. Plus she does not know the meaning of quiet. If she gets tired of us telling her to be quiet, she'll throw a loud screaming fit. But normally she goes to sleep with no problem, and she's one who really NEEDS a nap), so we didn't dare let her up. There was also a 4 yr old awake, but it was his first day back after the summer off and was too excited to sleep, plus he'd come in late after sleeping in late, and we knew if we let him do anything, the 3 yr old would have to get up also, and he would expect it every day also, although he's always been a good napper as well. Then after the children woke up and we went about our routine of putting cots away, putting shoes on, potty breaks, wash hands for snack, etc, it was awful. Mainly because of 3 yr old and 4 yr old who didn't take a nap (wouldn't you know it? I knew they needed that nap).

At one point I'm kneelng down, eye level, telling them to use their walking feet, and they just completely ignored me running around the building, laughing and giggling, spitting on each other, and then running circles around and around me while I told them to use walking feet. Ahhh! I know it looked like we had no control over the children (but normally they don't act like that). During snack they didn't want to eat what we served, and wanted to get up and play (our rule is that we don't get up til everyone's finished and we dismiss everyone at once. I think it's just good manners), but they really frown on that. UGH. Then 3 yr old would NOT put her shoes on so we could go outside. I'd get ready to help her (although normally we make them put their own shoes on if they know how, but this time she wouldn't do it herself) and she'd run away from me, laughing.

Owner had to go get the school agers off the bus, so she brought 4 of the children who were already ready to go outside with her, while I got the rest of them ready to go to go outside to play. We walked out the door in time for a 4 yr old to see the other half of the group walking down the drive with the owner to get the schoolagers, and she started to run away to go with them. I called her back and tried to comfort her, saying that tomorrow would be her turn, but she was sobbing that she couldn't go with them today. The whole time this lady just stands there with no emotion on her face and I can only imagine what she was thinking of us by this point. She followed us to the playground to look at it, then left to go back inside and finish her paperwork without saying a word to me. But before she left she told the owner we had passed with flying colors! I just knew she would have a list of things we did wrong and hwy we couldn't move up to the next level, but apparently not?

Our licensor had just been here the day before, but it went fine since all the children were asleep for nap But I hate having ANYone from state there, because if they're awake, the children just do NOT act like themselves and always "forget" the rules. And it just makes me nervous having someone watching me like that.

Sorry it got so long. Just wanted to say I don't like inspections either, no matter how well I know the regulations. Sorry your's went like that. Especially for your daughter who wants to help out.
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Old 08-20-2011, 10:00 PM
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Old 08-20-2011, 10:21 PM
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I am not running a preschool, I am the owner of a state licensed and county certified Family Childcare. And I have NEVER in all the years of owning my daycare, been written up for 1 thing not related to paperwork, much less 9 items in one visit!! My daycare is semi-structured, but in my world, why can't we just let our kids be kids and use their imaginations without somebody guiding every detail? I'm talking about infants on up. I understand that some providers want their own type of daycare, but mine is mine and my dc parents and I are all neighbors, know each others families and are terribly dissapointed in someone telling me that my 12 yr old can't continue to be an active roll in their children's life! My feelings on running a family daycare is not that I could EVER take the place of the children's parent's, it's my place to make sure the dc children are SAFE and HAPPY and they are a big part of our families life. That happens when you care for children 12 hours a day! Just like in every family, older siblings "help" not do the caring of the children, I care for all the children in this household and yes I am the provider, my daughter is just an added bonus of love and tenderness to these children. I am very lucky to have the most wonderful dc families! I am truly blessed and will continue to protect, love and keep safe these beautiful children. It just made me SAD! And I am very thankful to all who allowed me to vent! Thanks!!!
I opened my home childcare business when my oldest was just 6 weeks old. My children grew up with dcks in our home. I never allowed them to discipline anyone, but they were always hands on with helping out...not in the diapering area ever!...But would hold a bottle or comfort an infant. They were all fingerprinted with criminal background checks once they turned 18 and have since moved out of my home. I never looked at them as someone to assist, but I would have been offended if licensing said they could not contribute in a positive way. I think the state loses site of some positive attributes and unfortunately it's like anything else...control and rules sometimes over ride common sense.
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