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Old 09-09-2011, 01:25 PM
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Default Picking Up Toys...What Do You Think

Here's the sept. newsletter that was sent to me today. I admit I am already having a "grouchy" sort of day, so this may not be as bad as I'm taking it...but what do you all think?

The parts that really bother me the most are

1-Avoid sending the message that those who pick up are better than those who don't. OF COURSE they're not better people but they are good "cleaner uppers" and I will praise them for their work! Just as I might praise the "not so good cleaner upper" for something else!

2-Adults should plan to do most of the cleaning up I have NO problem helping with clean up, but even my babies "help" put things away. By the time my kids are about 2.5-3 they can really clean up with very little help from me.

3-It is a very complex and difficult task Don't see it now and have never seen cleaning up as complex and difficult for kids IF the adult doesn't let the room go to complete chaos. Of course it's the adults resposibility to make sure it's not crazy messy in the room!
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Old 09-09-2011, 01:34 PM
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I think it depends on the age of the kid and what their home routine is like..there are very few who "like" to clean up..I think we are all that way. We love to do certain things but we dread housework or more mundane tasksnbut we also know they are things that muct be done. I always pitch in and help my lil ppl with cleanup if they are helping but I won't if they don't. If I have to cleanup, I may put the items up for a days bc they didn't help but typically they will get involved if adults do and make it fun.

I think they need to learn responsibility and being part of a family/group that does things together for the greater good personally.

Last edited by Michael; 09-09-2011 at 04:28 PM.
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Old 09-09-2011, 01:35 PM
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As a pre k teacher I would agree that visual cues/pics work well to help kids see what you want them to do!
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Old 09-09-2011, 01:48 PM
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Sorry...none of that horse **** in my day care!

I was taught to clean up after myself and I made my own kids do the same and I will make my day care kids clean up after themselves too.

It is NOT hard and even the little ones soon learn exactly where things go and that when I say clean up....we clean up. It's not up for debate.

Good grief...who decided that the kids are in charge????????????????? I posted earlier about one of my BA school kids sarcastically telling me that cleaning up or not is "his" choice. I used "my" choice and sent him to time out for being sassy.

That said...I find that most of the time praise works wonders. I will say "Suzie! Great job cleaning up!" The other kids will try extra hard to outdo Suzie and I make sure I praise any child who is putting things away. The room is clean in a second.
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Old 09-09-2011, 02:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Meeko60 View Post
Sorry...none of that horse **** in my day care!

I was taught to clean up after myself and I made my own kids do the same and I will make my day care kids clean up after themselves too.

It is NOT hard and even the little ones soon learn exactly where things go and that when I say clean up....we clean up. It's not up for debate.

Good grief...who decided that the kids are in charge????????????????? I posted earlier about one of my BA school kids sarcastically telling me that cleaning up or not is "his" choice. I used "my" choice and sent him to time out for being sassy.

That said...I find that most of the time praise works wonders. I will say "Suzie! Great job cleaning up!" The other kids will try extra hard to outdo Suzie and I make sure I praise any child who is putting things away. The room is clean in a second.
I agree wholeheartedly!
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Old 09-09-2011, 02:42 PM
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As someone who is REALLY, REALLY bad about not making the kids clean up, I think this article is junk. (I am working on it, though.)

I would never berate, or belittle a child who isn't doing the clean up to my satisfaction, but I wouldn't say it's that difficult of a task if broken down into small areas.
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Old 09-09-2011, 02:50 PM
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Wow....that's all I have to say!
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Old 09-09-2011, 03:01 PM
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I don't care what the author does but it surely isn't happening here!
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Old 09-09-2011, 03:05 PM
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What is the deal with the boy comments?

If I flick the lights it tells boys to run around?

Kinda makes it look like he thinks boys are not as good as people who aren't boys.
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Old 09-09-2011, 03:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blackcat31 View Post
What is the deal with the boy comments?

If I flick the lights it tells boys to run around?

Kinda makes it look like he thinks boys are not as good as people who aren't boys.
I was wondering who was going to mention this first.

Who is this person? Very odd comments indeed.
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Old 09-09-2011, 03:50 PM
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Clean up time is one of the most debatable transition issues.

It's only a debate if there is an option not to do it.

When children are asked to clean up toys, the act of cleaning up uses a different part of the brain than getting toys out.

That's cool. Let's use both sides.

It is a very complex and difficult task.

Difficult is GOOD. Complex is GOOD.


Piaget said that children have to develop “reversibility” before they are capable of reversing actions.

They only have to develop reversability if they have ACCESS to undo things they aren't able to reverse.

When a child gets out a puzzle and slams it against the table upside down, it doesn’t mean that he/she knows how to reverse that action.

That's why you only give them access to the things they know how to reverse.


If they do not have that cognitive skill they are most likely going to leave the puzzle unfinished.

That's why you start with puzzles with two pieces... then three... then six... and on and on. When they do puzzles you have them DO as many pieces as they are able to put back.

Children are often surprised when the adult says, “Don’t forget to finish your puzzle and put it where it belongs.”

No surprises here. They only get puzzles they will willingly do without adult involvement. If they abandon them then they are saying they aren't ready for them. Fair enough.

The argument for cleaning up, that is often expressed by adults, is that it prepares children for the future.

I have them clean because that's what I want them to do TODAY. I don't do it to prepare them for the future. I do it to have the floor cleaned up today.

There is no evidence that cleaning up as a young child produces adults who are better at cleaning up. In reality sometimes the opposite occurs.

There is evidence that when you have them clean up then the floor is cleaned today. When you have them put the doll house back... the dolls are back in their place... the cribs are back in their place... the blankets are back... the babies are back.

That's evidence enough for me.

If clean up time is the major focus, children are not going to want to play with anything for fear they might have to pick it up.

Clean up is not a major focus. I don't focus on them taking it out or putting it back. I tell them to go play toys. I tell them to clean up. It's expected of them to do both with the same energy... the same tone... the same.

Adults often give the message that children who “pick up” are better than children who do not “pick up.” Is that really true?

I don't even consider better. I consider whether everything is put back so that when they come back to play it is "righted" and ready for good self entertainment play. I don't have any child who will not pick up. If they resist cleaning then they have MORE to clean.
With every refussal they have more to do. Very quickly they understand that the small amount they are being told to do is better than the large amount they are being told to do when they resist.

THAT'S the math. You do THIS amount... at THIS time... which is never more than they can do in a few minutes. OR... you do THIS more amount... and then more... and then more.

I say "do you want to clean this" and then wave one hand to the small area ... or "do you want to clean this" and wave my hand at the big area?

When they realize the little amount is quick and easy and the bigger amount is harder they ALWAYS choose to do the smaller amount. It only takes one period of escalating the amount to get them to do the small reasonable amount we allow to be out at one time.

If they decide to challenge it as they get older we do rinse and repeat. Once they are old enough to know how much more more is they kindly do their little share.

I am hoping that adults are looking for creative, playful, energetic, lively children that might need to play with lots of material without regard to worrying about cleaning it up.....

We don't have creativity or livliness when it's time to clean. Everything has it's place. When it's time to get them out they know where they are and what to do with them. When it's time to put them back they know where they are to go and what to do with them.

•Adults should plan on doing most of the cleaning up

I never clean toys. EVER The kids clean all the toys every day. I haven't paid a penny to a staff assistant to clean toys. The older kids teach the younger ones what to do as they toys become more complicated to sort and return.

•Do not expect that all children will finish playing at the same time

They all finish playing at the same time.


•Make individual warnings rather than group announcements

We say "clean toys little spud muffins" They all stop playing and clean the toys.

•Do not expect that children will clean up the way you would

I have an organized playroom so they DO clean up as I would have an adult clean up. If my three year old cleans the room it will look identical to the way I would clean the room.... if I cleaned toys.. which I do not.

•Avoid flicking the lights, it sends children messages, especially boys, to run around fast

No light flicking. Just say the words 'clean up"

•Let children who want to help with the clean up process assist

No... you clean up your side of the room where you play. If there is some kind of unusual thing happening where a kid leaves or becomes ill THEN I would ask the others to pitch in on their side and do their work. If all is well you won't have anyone who wants to help have to do any more than the ones who don't want to.

•Use visual warnings, especially for boys, ex.
Picture cards of children picking up

Geeze I must be raising boy child geniuses because I haven't ever had to do anything other than use my voice to get them to clean toys. If they refuse they just get more to do.

I do NOT praise kids for cleaning toys. I don't praise them when they take it out and I don't praise them when they put it back.

Praise is a slippery slope. When used for common every day expectations it can be an escalator and a distractor.

Use it wisely.

My clean up rules: If you can walk you can work. If you can get it out you can put it back. If I allow you access to something to get out that you can't get back then that's on me.

Allowing appropriate access is the key. We have base floor toys and then the toys that WOULD be more difficult to clean are by invite only.

We don't allow the amount of toys out to get beyond their abilities.

I have now officially spent more time writing about clean up then I will spend talking to kids about clean up in the next year.

Last edited by Michael; 09-09-2011 at 04:26 PM.
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Old 09-09-2011, 04:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nannyde View Post
Clean up time is one of the
most debatable transition
issues.


It's only a debate if there is an option not to do it.

When children are
asked to clean up toys, the
act of cleaning up uses a
different part of the brain
than getting toys out.


That's cool. Let's use both sides.

It is a
very complex and difficult
task.


Difficult is GOOD. Complex is GOOD.


Piaget said that children
have to develop
“reversibility” before they
are capable of reversing
actions.


They only have to develop reversability if they have ACCESS to undo things they aren't able to reverse.


When a child gets
out a puzzle and slams it
against the table upside
down, it doesn’t mean that
he/she knows how to
reverse that action.


That's why you only give them access to the things they know how to reverse.


If they
do not have that cognitive
skill they are most likely
going to leave the puzzle
unfinished.


That's why you start with puzzles with two pieces... then three... then six... and on and on. When they do puzzles you have them DO as many pieces as they are able to put back.

Children are
often surprised when the
adult says, “Don’t forget to
finish your puzzle and put it
where it belongs.”


No surprises here. They only get puzzles they will willingly do without adult involvement. If they abandon them then they are saying they aren't ready for them. Fair enough.

The argument for cleaning
up, that is often expressed
by adults, is that it prepares
children for the future.


I have them clean because that's what I want them to do TODAY. I don't do it to prepare them for the future. I do it to have the floor cleaned up today.


There is no evidence that
cleaning up as a young child
produces adults who are
better at cleaning up. In
reality sometimes the
opposite occurs.


There is evidence that when you have them clean up then the floor is cleaned today. When you have them put the doll house back... the dolls are back in their place... the cribs are back in their place... the blankets are back... the babies are back.

That's evidence enough for me.


If clean up time is the major
focus, children are not going
to want to play with anything
for fear they might have to
pick it up.


Clean up is not a major focus. I don't focus on them taking it out or putting it back. I tell them to go play toys. I tell them to clean up. It's expected of them to do both with the same energy... the same tone... the same.



Adults often give the
message that children who
“pick up” are better than
children who do not “pick
up.” Is that really true?


I don't even consider better. I consider whether everything is put back so that when they come back to play it is "righted" and ready for good self entertainment play. I don't have any child who will not pick up. If they resist cleaning then they have MORE to clean.

With every refussal they have more to do. Very quickly they understand that the small amount they are being told to do is better than the large amount they are being told to do when they resist.

THAT'S the math. You do THIS amount... at THIS time... which is never more than they can do in a few minutes. OR... you do THIS more amount... and then more... and then more.

I say "do you want to clean this" and then wave one hand to the small area ... or "do you want to clean this" and wave my hand at the big area?

When they realize the little amount is quick and easy and the bigger amount is harder they ALWAYS choose to do the smaller amount. It only takes one period of escalating the amount to get them to do the small reasonable amount we allow to be out at one time.

If they decide to challenge it as they get older we do rinse and repeat. Once they are old enough to know how much more more is they kindly do their little share.


I am hoping that adults are
looking for creative, playful,
energetic, lively children
that might need to play with
lots of material without
regard to worrying about
cleaning it up.....


We don't have creativity or livliness when it's time to clean. Everything has it's place. When it's time to get them out they know where they are and what to do with them. When it's time to put them back they know where they are to go and what to do with them.


•Adults should plan on doing most of the
cleaning up


I never clean toys. EVER The kids clean all the toys every day. I haven't paid a penny to a staff assistant to clean toys. The older kids teach the younger ones what to do as they toys become more complicated to sort and return.

•Do not expect that all children will finish
playing at the same time


They all finish playing at the same time.


•Make individual warnings rather than
group announcements


We say "clean toys little spud muffins" They all stop playing and clean the toys.

•Do not expect that children will clean up the
way you would


I have an organized playroom so they DO clean up as I would have an adult clean up. If my three year old cleans the room it will look identical to the way I would clean the room.... if I cleaned toys.. which I do not.

•Avoid flicking the lights, it sends children
messages, especially boys, to run around
fast


No light flicking. Just say the words 'clean up"

•Let children who want to help with the clean
up process assist


No... you clean up your side of the room where you play. If there is some kind of unusual thing happening where a kid leaves or becomes ill THEN I would ask the others to pitch in on their side and do their work. If all is well you won't have anyone who wants to help have to do any more than the ones who don't want to.

•Use visual warnings, especially for boys, ex.
Picture cards of children picking up


Geeze I must be raising boy child geniuses because I haven't ever had to do anything other than use my voice to get them to clean toys. If they refuse they just get more to do.

I do NOT praise kids for cleaning toys. I don't praise them when they take it out and I don't praise them when they put it back.

Praise is a slippery slope. When used for common every day expectations it can be an escalator and a distractor.

Use it wisely.

My clean up rules: If you can walk you can work. If you can get it out you can put it back. If I allow you access to something to get out that you can't get back then that's on me.

Allowing appropriate access is the key. We have base floor toys and then the toys that WOULD be more difficult to clean are by invite only.

We don't allow the amount of toys out to get beyond their abilities.

I have now officially spent more time writing about clean up then I will spend talking to kids about clean up in the next year.
I love EVERY response! You have very well thought out answers.
I was just too dumbfounded to even come up with ANY responses
My favorite is the "evidence" that the floor is clean today

Here is a link to the author's website. Scary all the teaching he does, awards he's won and the influence he has over so many. I wonder how does someone get to be so "respected" in the field when so many disagree with what he says? He is writing the newsletters that our state DHS sends to all providers so obviously they think he's telling us things we need to know! (That's a serious question!)
Any thoughts on that? Why aren't we all making the money HE makes by telling it like it REALLY IS instead of coming up with some random rules for caregivers? http://www.danieljhodgins.com/
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Old 09-09-2011, 05:04 PM
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I received this same newsletter, and was quite appalled. I'm newly licensed...so wasn't sure if it was appropriate for me to respond...don't want to red flag myself as a complainer, etc....but this article was horrible, and I can't believe the state would send this garbage out.

I think i will respond....you should too! the parts specifically about boys really irked me. it was also as if the whole article was like saying "oh kids aren't capable of following directions and cleaning up, so don't make them feel bad if they don't do it".
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Old 09-10-2011, 05:53 AM
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http://www.joyfulnoisedaycare.com/hodgins.html

This is a link to his other newsletters.

I'll look at them this weekend
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Old 09-10-2011, 07:06 AM
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Who is this guy? What are his credentials? All I can see is that he's a "presenter and an author". He has 1 daughter and she lives in Japan. Hmmm - that tells me something right there.

Cleaning up after themselves is teaching responsibility. Something current society and culture is sadly missing.

Yes, they need some guidance - "Betty, please put the dolls in the doll area." "Johnny, please help Billy put the blocks away."

There's always a new spin on how to raise our children. I see less and less parenting and more and more children running amuck. I'm old fashioned and I don't get this sort of thinking.

My own personal home is very small. My child learned that he could only play with one or two items at a time and had to put them away before he could pull out a 3rd otherwise you just plain couldn't walk in that room!

Putting toys away is NOT a complicated task. Not if you have buckets for everything. It is natural for a child to line up like things in a row. Why isn't it natural to place them in a bucket together?

Sorry - I don't get him - Nutter!
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Old 09-10-2011, 07:22 AM
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OH good grief. That's ridiculous. They help make the mess, they clean it up. End of story. I agree with nanny on most of it but still feel the need to put my own spin on a few parts...

Not sure WHY using both sides of the brain is a problem?!

No evidence that cleaning up as a child makes them clean up as adults? I wanna see a study that was done on this. I want your citation for "no evidence". I also want your citation for a study that was done suggesting the opposite, too--and a website saying, "a scientific study was conducted..." is NOT good enough. Nope, give me the REAL study.

Okay, so children need to develop reversability (I've studied Piaget and honestly, I've never heard of this?!? Unless I forgot). Oo look! I can play the fancy word game too! You model it for them until they reach the zone of proximal development for that skill, at which point you continue to assist as you scaffold them in that skill--gradually letting them take over more of the work, gradually removing yourself from the picture as they learn how to do pieces of the job. (Nanny, not all of us have older kids to teach these skills so we do have to be involved in the process for them to learn it). Putting stuff away isn't reversing an action, it's a different action all together.

You could look at it this way: it's not reversing what they have already done, it is doing something different. Putting the shapes in the bucket is a different skill than dumping them out, sure. So teach them the other skill too. If I had to guess, I'd say that reversing an action has a totally different definition. Even young toddlers are perfectly capable of dumping the bucket, then filling it, then dumping it again, then filling it again...

I can play the fancy term game again! Teaching children to clean up after themselves is pedagogically appropriate as it reinforces specific math concepts, including sorting, matching, and one-to-one correspondence, as well as giving children a sense of accomplishment and responsibility--both very important facets of a child's healthy emotional development. Ba dum ching!

This guy is a crack-pot and I'm tempted to respond as well. Good lord, I've never heard someone insinuate that asking children to clean up is not developmentally appropriate--for heaven's sake, children have been cleaning up after themselves since the dawn of time! Ever read the Laura Ingalls Wilder books?!
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Old 09-10-2011, 07:40 AM
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And while "I like how Sarah is picking up!" is not technically the best thing to say from a praise standpoint (although I admit to being guilty of things like that), I don't see anything wrong with, "John is busy picking up." That is an observation, a statement of fact; there's no value placed on it, no adult definition of good/bad, right/wrong. It's just a fact. You could just as easily say, "Look at Bob, he is busy dumping out the toys. Look at Jane, she is busy smearing poo on the walls. Look at Ronnie, he is busy doing differential calculus at age three." It's just a bland statement.

The reason for the boy comments guys is that he's the author of a book on boys in the classroom--"Boys: Changing the classroom, not the child".
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Old 09-10-2011, 12:56 PM
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http://www.joyfulnoisedaycare.com/Ju...newsletter.pdf


Causes of feeling failure:


•Competition - “Lets see who can pick up the fastest”.
What if a child is slow at it,


If they are slow it takes more time for them to pick up what they have taken out.

I don't do competition for the birth to five crowd. We have an order here and it is based on age. The oldest is the leader. The second oldest is the heir apparent. The third and fourth oldest our our "swing" kids who can adapt easily to being the leader of the youngins or the youngest of the older ones. The youngest are always first in health and safety and last in privledge.

The kids know exactly who is in what role. They know they move up or down based on attendance. Each spot in the order changes where you are and with who and when. It's very predictable. They grow up here so they adapt to the order.



or decides that picking up is
not what he/she is good at.


I don't allow a decision that cleaning up is something you can not be good at.

Does this give the message
that children who are not as fast at picking up are failures
at it?


No it gives the message that the children who are not fast at picking up are going to need more time to pick up and possibly less access to what can be taken out. If the adult JUST gives access to the toys that can easily be taken in and put back then there is no discord or competition.

As the child's picking up skill improves and is at a faster pace then the toys the child has access to become more complicated to pick up and sort to return.



•Standing in line - This invites children to push the
child in front of them.


No pushing. We don't really do stand in line for the birth to five but we do do sit in a line. We have them sit in an order from oldest to youngest. If one of them is froggy they have a spot to sit in that is not within the personal space zone of the ones who sit well.



When they push and get in trouble
they often are punished for something they did not cause.


Yes

If they put their hands on one of the other kids they are in trouble.




•Waiting my turn - This is a skill that is very difficult
for young children.


The way you teach children to wait their turn is by incremental exposures that increase over time. Allow them the success of one minute... then two... then three....

Don't put them in the position where waiting their turn exceeds their ability and don't accept them refusing it because they don't WANT it. It's okay to expect it. It's okay to require it. It's not okay to abuse it by putting them in a position to wait that is beyond their ability.





The longer the waiting time, the more
challenging behaviors occur.


Yes I agree. The conflict comes when the challenging behaviors come with ANY waiting. The conflict comes when the child refuses a waiting time that is reasonable and is conducive to the care and safety of the others.

It's okay to have a child wait while tending to your personal needs, the needs of another child, or the needs of the group. If you are organized, work with deliberation, have a child friendly and safe environment, have enough adults to get the duties done in a reasonable amount of time then the amount of time each child must wait is fair and developmentally appropriate.

What each child learns from infancy thru the age of five in the "laying in wait" times is just as valuable as what they are waiting for. Don't rob them of the experience of having NOTHING to do and NOTHING for them at the moment. That's when they take in... not put out. Taking in is a huge life skill that they learn from the opportunity to be still and take in.

It's the time they see and hear what you DO for others. It's the time they feel what it is like to be the one who doesn't have the adult. It's the time they can watch your loving tender care of the others so they learn they can trust you. It's the time when it's not about them.

That's good for them.

•Asking children to share - Young children don’t
recognize that other children have the same needs as they
have.


I don't know the definition of young but in my home the one to 2.5 year olds aren't expected to share. They have their own area where toys and space are available for them to have on their own without interference. This is a time where we focus on HOW they are playing with the toys, HOW they are accessing them and returning them. It is a time we teach them to respect the space of the other children in their area and to not interfere with what the others are doing.

I purposely have identical multiples of any highly sought after toy. I have the space for them to play with the same things apart. There is no reason to share because they have enough of everything to have their own.

Once we know that they can easily manage single play with lower level toys then we start (in small spurts of time) mixing them in with the children who are co-operatively playing with toys that are more complicated and lend themselves to group play.

This happens around the second year ... some earlier.. some later. That's the average.

Once they begin to play on the "big kids" side then they take on the behaviors of the big kids. The big kids play well together.

We use the big kids to visit on the little kids side to give them the opportunity to play by themselves with the lower level toys and the younger kids.

By mixing in deliberately the older more seasoned players with the younger ones we GRADUALLY show them how to move from parallel play to co-operative play. If they show they can't do that without conflict then we revert back to them having their own area with their own stuff. It only progresses as they progress in skill.


I worry more about children who do not take items
from other children than children who do.


I worry more about the adults understaning who can and can't share and not mixing the two. Mixing the two will land in conflict, hitting, biting, and fighting.

If the adult orchestrates the ins and outs of the play and supervises you will have little to no conflict. If you gradually increase their access to each other and appropriate toys you will see that they seamlessly increase their tolerance. Teach them when they are little what to do with the toys and space and they will naturally do as well with each other.




Expecting them to act like a little adult -
Asking children to adjust to behaviors that are more
“adult like” causes many feelings of failure when they
cannot live up to the expectations.


They are children not adults. They need adult leadership that is intense when they are first learning and then decreases as they become more independent.

They must have SPACE, supervision, appropriate toys, schedule/routine, and rules.
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  #19  
Old 09-10-2011, 01:06 PM
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Hunni Bee Hunni Bee is offline
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I don't see how cleaning up is that big of a deal. We simply do not change from one activity to another without cleaning up from the first. We have a small space, and it must be kept clean. I will not take time from being a provider to clean up massive amounts of toys. My kids are trained from day one. Boys and girls alike. Its not negotiable and its not an issue.

Everything has its own label bin, with pictures and words. If I move something around, I show them. If they need help cleaning, I help - by reminding and delegating. Like Nan said, I don't give them materials that would cause them stress to clean up. If the set has 90 pieces, they get 45 of them.

Its not that complicated to me.
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Old 09-10-2011, 02:13 PM
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nannyde nannyde is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by momofsix View Post
I love EVERY response! You have very well thought out answers.
I was just too dumbfounded to even come up with ANY responses
My favorite is the "evidence" that the floor is clean today

Here is a link to the author's website. Scary all the teaching he does, awards he's won and the influence he has over so many. I wonder how does someone get to be so "respected" in the field when so many disagree with what he says? He is writing the newsletters that our state DHS sends to all providers so obviously they think he's telling us things we need to know! (That's a serious question!)
Any thoughts on that? Why aren't we all making the money HE makes by telling it like it REALLY IS instead of coming up with some random rules for caregivers? http://www.danieljhodgins.com/
I think it's in response to the common understanding now that we can't say no and we can't give any consequence that isn't distraction and bargaining. This plan is to tell you what to do with the kid who you can't say no to.

It's a lot of words but it really comes down to:

If the kid doesn't want to clean they shouldn't be made to do it.

If you care for a group of kids you should do 70 percent of the cleaning. The thirty percent that is done by the kids is done by the ones who happen to be at the stage where they actually like cleaning/sorting. As soon as they outgrow that stage they can just refuse.

We are to be understanding and allow them the no based on the fact that they simply shouldn't be doing something they don't want to do. We are to see their refusal as a biological refusal not a behavioral refusal.

The one thing he isn't being accountable for is who is going to pay for this. If we are going to have a group of kids who don't HAVE to do what they don't want to do and get to do what they want when they want then you HAVE to enough adults to serve them minute to minute individually so they GET what is "age appropriate" minute to minute.

If our kids need their own adult then there has to be enough money to pay an adult for every kid. What he is suggesting is meeting the individual want/need of the kid while the kids care is being paid as a fraction of the adults time. How can that ever work?
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