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daycare 01:29 PM 01-18-2012
able to sit at the table and eat with fork or spoon?________

able to put on own shoes_____________?

Able to follow two commands?___________ex: sit down and put on your shoes?

able recognize letters in their name or at least the first letter?_________

stop taking a nap??


Of course I know we cannot compare one child to the next, I am just wondering if my expectations are too high. I have been teaching preschool for almost 4 years and for some reason it feels like kids these days are regressing more and more. Or should I say that what my 2&3 year olds could do then, my 3-5 year olds cant now......Hope that makes sense...
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Christian Mother 01:38 PM 01-18-2012
Originally Posted by daycare:

able to sit at the table and eat with fork or spoon? between 2 and 3

able to put on own shoes: 2 yrs

Able to follow two commands?ex: sit down and put on your shoes? For me it starts younger then 2 yrs of age as some of mine start to understand giving toys back and saying please and thank you's not to mention at 2 they are putting their clothes back on after going to the bathroom. Some need assistance but pretty much have it.

able recognize letters in their name or at least the first letter? 2 yrs and older..at least that is when I've noticed my 2's being able to recognize their letters and sounds and being able to point out which is there special letter.


Of course I know we cannot compare one child to the next, I am just wondering if my expectations are too high. I have been teaching preschool for almost 4 years and for some reason it feels like kids these days are regressing more and more. Or should I say that what my 2&3 year olds could do then, my 3-5 year olds cant now......Hope that makes sense...


With my son...I tried so hard to teach him the alphabet and for some reason he cld not retain any of it..but as soon as he was placed in a preschool at 3 yrs with a bilingual teacher he picked up very quickly...I have a back ground in teaching i am not sure why I couldn't get my own son to recognize letter s and sounds but another can...it cld just be teaching style or I suck or being in a class room with other children helped him focus...I just cldn't get him to focus on me. But with other children here at the age of 2 had it down...letters and sounds and being able to pick up objects with a letter on it and telling me what it is and the sound. Blows me away...some of them either do well with this or do well in other areas like shapes and colors beyond the circle and square I'm talking about prism, sphere, cone, hexagon, octagon, pentagon...etc.
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daycare 01:47 PM 01-18-2012
Originally Posted by Christian Mother:

With my son...I tried so hard to teach him the alphabet and for some reason he cld not retain any of it..but as soon as he was placed in a preschool at 3 yrs with a bilingual teacher he picked up very quickly...I have a back ground in teaching i am not sure why I couldn't get my own son to recognize letter s and sounds but another can...it cld just be teaching style or I suck or being in a class room with other children helped him focus...I just cldn't get him to focus on me. But with other children here at the age of 2 had it down...letters and sounds and being able to pick up objects with a letter on it and telling me what it is and the sound. Blows me away...some of them either do well with this or do well in other areas like shapes and colors beyond the circle and square I'm talking about prism, sphere, cone, hexagon, octagon, pentagon...etc.
my son stayed in the play stages for a very long time. he turned 4 in sept and he just now started picking things up and being able to retain it. I was also like you not able to get his focus. I think a lot of it has to do with the fact that its hard to separate home from school. He has a really hard time understanding that transition. especially when the weekends come and go.

I have some kids now that are what I consider way behind. a 3 & a 4 year old still in diapers with no hope to PT soon, can't dress herself, cant put her shoes on, can't sot at the table long enough to eat a meal, can't take more than one direction EVER.

i think that a lot of it has to do with that they are both the youngest in the family and have been babied for a very long time. But they are about to get a rude awaking cuz both moms are about to have babies....
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queenbee 02:06 PM 01-18-2012
able to sit at the table and eat with fork or spoon? By 18 Months. Children are MORE than capable of using utensils and sitting at the table once they reach 18 months (normal developing children, of course).

able to put on own shoes? Age 2.

Able to follow two commands? Age 2

able recognize letters in their name or at least the first letter? Between ages 2 & 3.

stop taking a nap?? Never! I'm kidding, but I only have children 4 and under and all take naps. My summer dcgirls are 5 & 6 and they are still required to take a nap during the summer. They are usually the first to fall asleep.
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Meyou 02:12 PM 01-18-2012
able to sit at the table and eat with fork or spoon?_I expect them to be able to eat messy things with a spoon without an explosion by 2. I sit them at the table once they start finger foods. _______

able to put on own shoes__2 for most pairs___________?

Able to follow two commands?___2.5________ex: sit down and put on your shoes?

able recognize letters in their name or at least the first letter?____3_____

stop taking a nap?? when they go to school.
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Ariana 03:10 PM 01-18-2012
Originally Posted by daycare:
able to sit at the table and eat with fork or spoon?________ starts at 18 months

able to put on own shoes_____________? 3yrs

Able to follow two commands?___________ex: sit down and put on your shoes? an 18 month old should follow 2 commands, but not able to put on shoes

able recognize letters in their name or at least the first letter?_________ 3-4yrs

stop taking a nap??3-4yrs


Of course I know we cannot compare one child to the next, I am just wondering if my expectations are too high. I have been teaching preschool for almost 4 years and for some reason it feels like kids these days are regressing more and more. Or should I say that what my 2&3 year olds could do then, my 3-5 year olds cant now......Hope that makes sense...
This is kind of what my expectations are based on my educaton and experience. All kids are different though!!
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daycare 03:19 PM 01-18-2012
so by the looks of everyone else's expectations, I am not expecting too much.

I guess I have my work really cut out for me.
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Ariana 03:27 PM 01-18-2012
Originally Posted by daycare:
so by the looks of everyone else's expectations, I am not expecting too much.

I guess I have my work really cut out for me.
Could it be an issue with over praising creating a "lazy" attitude? Maybe trying some descriptive praise to get them intrinsically motivated might help. When kids feel that they are doing things to feel good about themselves inside they tend to push themselves more than kids who are doing it for the external praise. Look up Descriptive Praise for more info....
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Michael 05:49 PM 01-18-2012
Here are some milestones from another thread. https://www.daycare.com/fastfacts/de...ilestones.html
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Hunni Bee 07:09 PM 01-18-2012
Originally Posted by daycare:
i think that a lot of it has to do with that they are both the youngest in the family and have been babied for a very long time. But they are about to get a rude awaking cuz both moms are about to have babies....
Its sad that they would set their own children up for that. It's going to heartbreaking to them when the babying stops, and the parents are going to find themselves frustrated and sad when they realize they have INFANTS who four years apart in age

I'm starting believe my 2 year old nephew has a speech delay. Not because he isn't talking, but because the words and thought processes are there but the pronunciation isn't. By the time it makes it from his brain to his mouth, its gobble-de-gook. BUT, his self help skills are excellent. He can dress himself with help, feed himself without a mess, cleans up wonderfully, do a two-part instruction...and not only is he the baby, he's the only person under 18 in the entire family.

Its just that we have high expectations of him, and I think that plays a large part in loving your kid. You can have a beautiful ball of clay, but if you do not work with it...you're going to have a lovely lump. JMHO.
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Abigail 09:14 PM 01-18-2012
You could always have a "Gaining Independence Week" and tell parents please work on letting your child get dressed or shoes on or try a meal at the table....allow plenty of extra time....find a cute article on it and that should help you along!

I think the answers are all over the board. I have a very indepent 19 month old who can put her shoes on and jacket on and hat on just fine, but she can't just sit and eat so she stays in the highchair still. I've worked with many kids who are almost 4 and throw tantrums when mom/dad comes for them to put on their shoes for them and their jacket.

I make the extra time for the kids to gain independence. This week has been focusing on HELP PLEASE for when they need assistance instead of whining. I have three between 19 and 24 months and they're all going to be great at self help skills!
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Meyou 04:16 AM 01-19-2012
Daycare, I've had some DCK's over the years that were completely babied and couldn't do anything for themselves. The most memorable was a 4 year old boy who couldn't even pull jogging pants up and down and asked to be carried up and down stairs. I "tough loved" him. One day I took his pants off and told him he could play when he put them on. It took allllll morning and much screaming but we had no futher problems with teaching him to dress himself. He still struggled but once I showed him he could do it himself his attitude changed. He really thought he couldn't do anything.
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SilverSabre25 05:13 AM 01-19-2012
Originally Posted by Ariana:
Could it be an issue with over praising creating a "lazy" attitude? Maybe trying some descriptive praise to get them intrinsically motivated might help. When kids feel that they are doing things to feel good about themselves inside they tend to push themselves more than kids who are doing it for the external praise. Look up Descriptive Praise for more info....
Alfie Kohn: Five Reasons to Stop Saying Good Job


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SilverSabre25 05:19 AM 01-19-2012
able to sit at the table and eat with fork or spoon?___by two for spoon, 2.5 for fork_____

able to put on own shoes___really depends on the shoe, but I expect attempts by about 2.5______?

Able to follow two commands?___should be by 18 mos to 2_____

able recognize letters in their name or at least the first letter?__depends a LOT on how much they've been worked with, but usually by 3 to 3.5____

stop taking a nap?? MOST children, 3.5 or 4

Almost all these things though, depend highly on how much exposure they've had to it and how much freedom they are given to try, and fail, and try again, and be given constructive help.
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Heidi 10:31 AM 01-19-2012
Originally Posted by SilverSabre25:
Alfie Kohn: Five Reasons to Stop Saying Good Job

Interesting article. I'm not sure I agree 100%, but I will try to be more mindful of mindlessly saying "good job" constantly.

I say I don't totally agree, because to me, part of the message when you say "good job" is that you should "please your elders", and I don't know that this is entirely wrong. It's one thing not to give your child negative messages about who they are, but is there really anything wrong with giving them positive messages, AND the message that they should try to please you on occasion? Should they live to please others, no. Should they care what their parents or caregivers or teachers think, you bet! Eventually, they will internalize those messages, but a 2 year old hasn't. They are not going to do something out of the goodness of their heart. lol

The word "Respect" is thrown around alot in early childhood ed. Respectful interactions with children, etc. There should almost be two words for respect. The kind of respect you have for another human being; that is what children should recieve. I actually think it's disrespectful to lie to a child. Make them THINK they have a choice, for instance, when they don't. "Could you please pass the salt" is a choice. "Could you please sit down on that chair (vs. standing)" is not a choice. It's more honest to say "I want you to sit down" or the old "chairs are for sitting on", or even "sit down".

Then there is the kind of respect one EARNS, by being a parent, a grandparent, a police officer, the boss, etc. A child has not earned that sort of respect, and sometimes I think that's where people get sidetracked?

Gosh...who asked for a speech from me? no one...sorry!
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wdmmom 10:53 AM 01-19-2012
[quote=daycare;187327]able to sit at the table and eat with fork or spoon?________

able to put on own shoes_____________?2 1/2

Able to follow two commands?___________ex: sit down and put on your shoes?2 1/2

able recognize letters in their name or at least the first letter?_________about 2 1/2

stop taking a nap?? 5
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BigMama 11:01 AM 01-19-2012
Originally Posted by daycare:
able to sit at the table and eat with fork or spoon?________ They sit at the table with us when they start eating solid foods. I expect them to make an attempt with utensils at age 1 and to be fairly capable of plate-to-mouth by 18 mos.

able to put on own shoes_____________? If they have sensible shoes without a million buckles, clasps, ties, zippers, snaps, strings, closures, and other doodads, I expect them to TRY to put their shoes on by age 2 with success getting them on their feet by 2 1/2.

Able to follow two commands?___________ex: sit down and put on your shoes? By age 2.

able recognize letters in their name or at least the first letter?_________ Depending on how long they have been in child care, by age 3.

stop taking a nap?? 4-41/2


Of course I know we cannot compare one child to the next, I am just wondering if my expectations are too high. I have been teaching preschool for almost 4 years and for some reason it feels like kids these days are regressing more and more. Or should I say that what my 2&3 year olds could do then, my 3-5 year olds cant now......Hope that makes sense...
I think the biggest difference with children now is that so many of them aren't taught self-help skills! They don't even TRY to put on their shoes or coat. They just stand there and wait because they are dressed like a doll at home. I know parents are in a hurry and need to get out the door, but these are life skills these children need to know. I have AWESOME DCP's but most of them don't teach self-help skills at all. Many of my parents are surprised that I expect their child to pull their pants up after a diaper change or trip to the potty. Many were surprised that I taught the 2's and 3's jacket flips. I am very big on the kids at least trying to do things for themselves. I don't expect them to get their shoes on the right feet or be able to tie them, but if we are getting ready to go outside, I expect them to try to put their shoes on.
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daycare 11:46 AM 01-19-2012
Originally Posted by BigMama:
I think the biggest difference with children now is that so many of them aren't taught self-help skills! They don't even TRY to put on their shoes or coat. They just stand there and wait because they are dressed like a doll at home. I know parents are in a hurry and need to get out the door, but these are life skills these children need to know. I have AWESOME DCP's but most of them don't teach self-help skills at all. Many of my parents are surprised that I expect their child to pull their pants up after a diaper change or trip to the potty. Many were surprised that I taught the 2's and 3's jacket flips. I am very big on the kids at least trying to do things for themselves. I don't expect them to get their shoes on the right feet or be able to tie them, but if we are getting ready to go outside, I expect them to try to put their shoes on.
OMG you described it to a T

yes parents treat them as though they are dolls. I have had this discussion with parents and I tell them that I understand during the work week that it is hard to teach them these skills, but that at night before the tub or bed, or even on weekends they need to start teaching them to dress and undress.

I have a 3.5 year old that cant even push her sleeves up to wash her hands???? WTH
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Ariana 12:02 PM 01-19-2012
Originally Posted by bbo:
Interesting article. I'm not sure I agree 100%, but I will try to be more mindful of mindlessly saying "good job" constantly.

I say I don't totally agree, because to me, part of the message when you say "good job" is that you should "please your elders", and I don't know that this is entirely wrong. It's one thing not to give your child negative messages about who they are, but is there really anything wrong with giving them positive messages, AND the message that they should try to please you on occasion? Should they live to please others, no. Should they care what their parents or caregivers or teachers think, you bet! Eventually, they will internalize those messages, but a 2 year old hasn't. They are not going to do something out of the goodness of their heart. lol

The word "Respect" is thrown around alot in early childhood ed. Respectful interactions with children, etc. There should almost be two words for respect. The kind of respect you have for another human being; that is what children should recieve. I actually think it's disrespectful to lie to a child. Make them THINK they have a choice, for instance, when they don't. "Could you please pass the salt" is a choice. "Could you please sit down on that chair (vs. standing)" is not a choice. It's more honest to say "I want you to sit down" or the old "chairs are for sitting on", or even "sit down".

Then there is the kind of respect one EARNS, by being a parent, a grandparent, a police officer, the boss, etc. A child has not earned that sort of respect, and sometimes I think that's where people get sidetracked?

Gosh...who asked for a speech from me? no one...sorry!
It's not about respect it's about intrinsic motivation. Doing something because it feels good for you to do it inside, being proud of yourself, instead of just doing it to get a pat on the head. Studies have shown that children who are intrinsically motivated are kinder. They are kind because being kind makes you feel good. Most people are only kind to get external recognition. Does that make sense? Children who are told "good job" or praised incessantly for no real reason suffer from low self esteem and studies have also shown that they drop out of school and don't finish college etc (I've read Alfie's book!). You can still say "good job" just describe what's good about it. Like saying "good job at trying to put on your coat by yourself" so the child really knows you're paying attention AND you're praising that he's being independant rather than following your rules. This increases self esteem.

Anyway I could go on and on but the book explains everything beautifully and I agree with it 100%!!
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WImom 12:12 PM 01-19-2012
Originally Posted by BigMama:
I think the biggest difference with children now is that so many of them aren't taught self-help skills! They don't even TRY to put on their shoes or coat. They just stand there and wait because they are dressed like a doll at home. I know parents are in a hurry and need to get out the door, but these are life skills these children need to know. I have AWESOME DCP's but most of them don't teach self-help skills at all. Many of my parents are surprised that I expect their child to pull their pants up after a diaper change or trip to the potty. Many were surprised that I taught the 2's and 3's jacket flips. I am very big on the kids at least trying to do things for themselves. I don't expect them to get their shoes on the right feet or be able to tie them, but if we are getting ready to go outside, I expect them to try to put their shoes on.
SOOO TRUE!! Yes, all my parents here are so impressed when a child can do something here ie: jacket flips, get on shoes, etc. I spend alot of time with self help skills here because I have to. Now I do have a 2 dc girls (ones 2y and one is 3y) that can zip jackets, put them on without flipping them, get socks on, bascially not one thing they can't do. I can tell those parent's taught them which makes me happy!
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Heidi 12:23 PM 01-19-2012
Originally Posted by Ariana:
It's not about respect it's about intrinsic motivation. Doing something because it feels good for you to do it inside, being proud of yourself, instead of just doing it to get a pat on the head. Studies have shown that children who are intrinsically motivated are kinder. They are kind because being kind makes you feel good. Most people are only kind to get external recognition. Does that make sense? Children who are told "good job" or praised incessantly for no real reason suffer from low self esteem and studies have also shown that they drop out of school and don't finish college etc (I've read Alfie's book!). You can still say "good job" just describe what's good about it. Like saying "good job at trying to put on your coat by yourself" so the child really knows you're paying attention AND you're praising that he's being independant rather than following your rules. This increases self esteem.

Anyway I could go on and on but the book explains everything beautifully and I agree with it 100%!!
Thanks Ariana-

I am not disagreeing completely, believe me! I guess my philosophy is about balance. For some reason, we seem to be extremists in this country about things. Phonics vs. sight words, punitive vs. permissive, democrat vs. repulican..lol.

I am not a fan of stickers or other external rewards, but have used those systems on occasion to get a specific result. I also talk alot about making good choices and doing the right thing. But I WANT them to follow my rules, and I LIKE my rules, because this is my house, and we've worked hard everything we have. I honestly dont care if THEY (the adorable children that I love) feel bad because they have to follow MY rules.

So sometimes, when I say something, and I just want it done, because I am the parent/caregiver, and I've earned the right to be the "boss" around here. No arguments, no "but how about how I feel?", no negotiation. Some things are negotiable (do you want your red coat or your blue coat), some things are not (get one of them on and get your rear in the car, we are leaving). I just feel like we often get the message from the experts that we are not supposed to ever "lay down the law" for fear we might hurt sa child's self esteem. I also worry that we have a whole generation comming up with TONS of self-esteem, and no respect for authority. Yes, the praise is a form of manipulation, but we need to use whatever tools we have in our toolbox. It's still a long way from sending out to the yard for a switch...lol..

Please don't think I'm arguing or being snarky! I actually agree with the article, for the most part, I am just trying to stick in the "grain of salt" IE: balance...
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Ariana 12:52 PM 01-19-2012
I don't think you're being snarky at all!! Everyone has a different viewpoint on things. I do strongly recommend the book though. It has a lot of great viewpoints that I had never considered and it's helped me a lot. I also don't follow it 100% because I agree that it is about balance. I just think that parenting styles have to change because kids these days are so entitled and just plain mean. I don't want to raise a kid like that!!
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Blackcat31 01:13 PM 01-19-2012
Originally Posted by bbo:
Thanks Ariana-

I am not disagreeing completely, believe me! I guess my philosophy is about balance. For some reason, we seem to be extremists in this country about things. Phonics vs. sight words, punitive vs. permissive, democrat vs. repulican..lol.

I am not a fan of stickers or other external rewards, but have used those systems on occasion to get a specific result. I also talk alot about making good choices and doing the right thing. But I WANT them to follow my rules, and I LIKE my rules, because this is my house, and we've worked hard everything we have. I honestly dont care if THEY (the adorable children that I love) feel bad because they have to follow MY rules.

So sometimes, when I say something, and I just want it done, because I am the parent/caregiver, and I've earned the right to be the "boss" around here. No arguments, no "but how about how I feel?", no negotiation. Some things are negotiable (do you want your red coat or your blue coat), some things are not (get one of them on and get your rear in the car, we are leaving). I just feel like we often get the message from the experts that we are not supposed to ever "lay down the law" for fear we might hurt sa child's self esteem. I also worry that we have a whole generation comming up with TONS of self-esteem, and no respect for authority. Yes, the praise is a form of manipulation, but we need to use whatever tools we have in our toolbox. It's still a long way from sending out to the yard for a switch...lol..

Please don't think I'm arguing or being snarky! I actually agree with the article, for the most part, I am just trying to stick in the "grain of salt" IE: balance...
There is a BIG difference between self-esteem from entitlement vs self-esteem from overcoming failure,mistakes and hardships.

Your statement above made me think of a good article I read in last months Reader's Digest about the different types of self-esteem and how the kids of this generation feel entitled to it versus earning it as generations before.
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Heidi 01:24 PM 01-19-2012
Originally Posted by Ariana:
I don't think you're being snarky at all!! Everyone has a different viewpoint on things. I do strongly recommend the book though. It has a lot of great viewpoints that I had never considered and it's helped me a lot. I also don't follow it 100% because I agree that it is about balance. I just think that parenting styles have to change because kids these days are so entitled and just plain mean. I don't want to raise a kid like that!!
I will see if my R&R has it. I love reading! :-)
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