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Crystal 12:24 PM 12-17-2012
In light of many recent mass shootings, and because the great gun debate was started in a thread meant to honor victims, I a starting a new thread dedicated to gun control.

I am with those that beleive there needs to be limits as to which weapons are available to the public. I see nothing wrong with being able to own a weapon for protection or hunting, however I see no reason for the general population to have access to high powere assault weapons.

While there is always the (lame) argument that "guns don't kill people, people kill people" the truth of the matter is the people who are the perpetrators of mass shootings could not have killed more than a couple of people as opposed to dozens of people....THAT is why there needs to be limits to the type of weapons that these poeple can legally get their hands on.
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Brent 12:56 PM 12-17-2012
I know that when something like this happens we need to react and hopefully it is a positive result from that action. When you say assault weapons, can we not consider every gun an assault weapon? Assault is an action. Many vehicular incidents can result in a charge of assault with a deadly weapon. A knife, hammer, scissors many tools/instruments can be used to assault, even a baseball bat.

Do you know that the Bushmaster that the killer used is not near as powerful as most hunting rifles?

Taking away something every time a tragedy like this happens will eventually take away all things that can assault others.

What we need IMO is to take care of ourselves/towns/state/country/world…our love, our spirit, our soul. What “makes” people do this is what needs our attention.
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SunshineMama 01:01 PM 12-17-2012
Originally Posted by Brent:
I know that when something like this happens we need to react and hopefully it is a positive result from that action. When you say assault weapons, can we not consider every gun an assault weapon? Assault is an action. Many vehicular incidents can result in a charge of assault with a deadly weapon. A knife, hammer, scissors many tools/instruments can be used to assault, even a baseball bat.

Do you know that the Bushmaster that the killer used is not near as powerful as most hunting rifles?

Taking away something every time a tragedy like this happens will eventually take away all things that can assault others.

What we need IMO is to take care of ourselves/towns/state/country/world…our love, our spirit, our soul. What “makes” people do this is what needs our attention.
Agree.
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MarinaVanessa 01:13 PM 12-17-2012
I have to politely disagree with the assault rifle opinion. I am one of those that owns an AR-15, several hunting rifles and quite a few handguns. Licensing knows that we own them and we have showed them where they and the ammo is kept. I am a responsible gun enthusiast and follow all laws including following the requirements to owning the AR-15.

I think that instead of pointing fingers to place blame on gun control laws or to ban assault rifles our focus should be more on better access to mental health care for the general population. Or if anything, place blame where it is due ... such as the aggressors and perhaps parents if the agressor is a child.

If making something illegal will reduce or remove unwanted behavior and actions then why is that we still have a drug problem in america? Just because drugs are illegal does not make them inaccessible. I don't think that banning assault rifles will help matters because if someone determined to hurt someone can't get a hold of one then they'll simply use a handgun, a shotgun, a bomb, a knife, a brick, a baseball bat, a kitchen knife, a piece of rope ... anything they can get their hands on.
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MamaG 01:16 PM 12-17-2012
Originally Posted by Crystal:
In light of many recent mass shootings, and because the great gun debate was started in a thread meant to honor victims, I a starting a new thread dedicated to gun control.

I am with those that beleive there needs to be limits as to which weapons are available to the public. I see nothing wrong with being able to own a weapon for protection or hunting, however I see no reason for the general population to have access to high powere assault weapons.

While there is always the (lame) argument that "guns don't kill people, people kill people" the truth of the matter is the people who are the perpetrators of mass shootings could not have killed more than a couple of people as opposed to dozens of people....THAT is why there needs to be limits to the type of weapons that these poeple can legally get their hands on.
Sure bet you'd change your mind if we had a civil war and had to fight the oppression of a tyrant in office at the White House. Just sayn.
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Country Kids 01:16 PM 12-17-2012
I urge everyone to please look up and read semi-automatic. It was invented as a hunting rifle in the 1800s, not as an assult rifle. It has been around as a hunting rifle for 100+ years. All it took was 1 and I will repeat it again 1 person to use it wrongly and automatically the gun is a bad thing, not the person.

Throughout time there have been many semi-automatic guns including pistols. These are not automatic weapons as the military uses hence the word semi-automatic.

The mom in this story was a prepper. I'm sure everyone here has heard of the show "Preppers". All those people are armed and most to the extreme. Funny thing you could have one in your neighborhood and never know it. Alot of them don't want people to know they are preppers. Doesn't mean though they will go through and shoot up your neighborhood.

Why should the people who use their guns responsible be punished for what the people that have mental issues do? That would be saying ok, all daycare providers can't have stoves because they may put a pan of oil on the stove and leave to go shopping. Would that be fair? Just because someone owns a gun does not mean the will go around shooting people and also they are not heartless. This tragedy is affecting even people that hunt and own guns. I bet some of the children that were killed had guns in their own homes.

There are people who get behind the wheel of a car after drinking-illegal- and can kill a whole family in a car wreck. In some cases the drinker walks away from it. Are we pushing to make alcohol illegal? We should ban that also! How would that go over. In fact I'm sure there are 20 people that die a day in drunk driving cases but its not medized because it wasn't 20 at one time.

Washingington state has now made pot smoking legal. That should add to the wrecks on our highways! Guess who made it legal-the people because from what I heard it passed some ballot or something. So we are going to let people know get hooked on drugs legally. Interesting!

I have had two instances with the swat team in my town. One there was a standoff and the guy ended up killing himself. The scary thing was they had just moved across town from our neighborhood. You could actually see their house from ours. We lived here for years and had never seen him. He was unstable and lived with his parents. That could have been in our neighborhood just as easily. Once again another unstable person that no one knew about.

The second was on my street. The swat team/police tape/bull horn/the whole bit. They were trying to talk a guy out of something.I think another instance where the guy was off his medication or something.

Once again though, I wonder why its always young men that do this. I don't think there has ever been an instance where its an older man or woman. Its always a guy that is no older then 25 years old. That is another mystery I think that needs to be looked at.

My heart breaks from this tragedy. I had nightmares all weekend from it and cried numerous times. My own child didn't want to go to school today but I did my best in reassuring but after they left the tears rolled down my face. We never know when are time is or how we will go. I also pray for the children in China who were attacked with a knife. I wonder if they will push to ban them know in that country?
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MarinaVanessa 01:16 PM 12-17-2012
Originally Posted by Brent:
I know that when something like this happens we need to react and hopefully it is a positive result from that action. When you say assault weapons, can we not consider every gun an assault weapon? Assault is an action. Many vehicular incidents can result in a charge of assault with a deadly weapon. A knife, hammer, scissors many tools/instruments can be used to assault, even a baseball bat.

Do you know that the Bushmaster that the killer used is not near as powerful as most hunting rifles?

Taking away something every time a tragedy like this happens will eventually take away all things that can assault others.

What we need IMO is to take care of ourselves/towns/state/country/world…our love, our spirit, our soul. What “makes” people do this is what needs our attention.
You and I are of like minds . I must have been typing mine as you were posting yours.

And what you said about the Bushmaster is true. I would never dream of going hunting with one or even my own AR-15.

Originally Posted by MamaG:
Sure bet you'd change your mind if we had a civil war and had to fight the oppression of a tyrant in office at the White House. Just sayn.
This got me to thinking ... what if we were ever invaded? I'd sure hate to have this happen and suddenly find myself not nearly as well armed as the bad guy seeing as to how popular and well-liked the US has become globaly <--- sarcasm. I mean yes we will have our military to protect us and fight for us but if I can't have my own unit posted at my front door then I prefer to have my own weapons capable of keeping me just a little bit safer.
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MamaG 01:19 PM 12-17-2012
Originally Posted by MarinaVanessa:
I have to politely disagree with the assault rifle opinion. I am one of those that owns an AR-15, several hunting rifles and quite a few handguns. Licensing knows that we own them and we have showed them where they and the ammo is kept. I am a responsible gun enthusiast and follow all laws including following the requirements to owning the AR-15.

I think that instead of pointing fingers to place blame on gun control laws or to ban assault rifles our focus should be more on better access to mental health care for the general population. Or if anything, place blame where it is due ... such as the aggressors and perhaps parents if the agressor is a child.

If making something illegal will reduce or remove unwanted behavior and actions then why is that we still have a drug problem in america? Just because drugs are illegal does not make them inaccessible. I don't think that banning assault rifles will help matters because if someone determined to hurt someone can't get a hold of one then they'll simply use a handgun, a shotgun, a bomb, a knife, a brick, a baseball bat, a kitchen knife, a piece of rope ... anything they can get their hands on.


Exactly. Banning some guns only means law abiding citizens can't own them but criminals can and will continue to use then. How does that make sence!
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Play Care 01:23 PM 12-17-2012
I see no reason to have certain types of weapons. The founding fathers were dealing with muskets and bayonettes, not guns that are capable of shooting multiple rounds per second. Had the killer had a knife, he would not have been able to blast his way in to the school, had the Colorado shooter had a baseball bat the chances are good he could have been contained before killing.
No one is saying people can't have guns for hunting, or home defense. But I do find it odd that in a country that has as many guns as we do, we are not any safer for it. In fact our crime/death rates are much higher than most other countries (I think we rank 4th in the world). It says something about a country where it's easier to get a gun then it is to get medication.
And for those who whine "if you don't like it, leave" you obviously have no idea where YOU live. Our country was founded by those who disagreed with the status quo. I will continue to sign petitions and call/write my respresentative to let them know exactly how I feel.

Peace.
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MamaG 01:25 PM 12-17-2012
Originally Posted by Country Kids:
There are people who get behind the wheel of a car after drinking-illegal- and can kill a whole family in a car wreck. In some cases the drinker walks away from it. Are we pushing to make alcohol illegal? We should ban that also! How would that go over. In fact I'm sure there are 20 people that die a day in drunk driving cases but its not medized because it wasn't 20 at one time.
Or lets ban cars!
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MarinaVanessa 01:34 PM 12-17-2012
Originally Posted by Play Care:
And for those who whine "if you don't like it, leave" you obviously have no idea where YOU live. Our country was founded by those who disagreed with the status quo. I will continue to sign petitions and call/write my respresentative to let them know exactly how I feel.
Peace.
I am one of those that believes that if you don't agree with something you have a right to your opinion ... but you don't have a right to force your opinions onto others that do not agree with you. Banning guns is doing just that, you are saying that because you do not believe in having certain types of weapons that I should have to give mine up even though I do not believe in that at all. And just as you will continue to write to your representative and sign petitions, so will I. The only difference is that you are saying that no one should have these types of guns ... I am not saying that everyone should be forced to own one. I think that if one does not believe in having them then it should be their choice not to have one just like if someone does then it should be their right to own one.
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Brent 01:35 PM 12-17-2012
Originally Posted by Play Care:
I see no reason to have certain types of weapons. The founding fathers were dealing with muskets and bayonettes, not guns that are capable of shooting multiple rounds per second. Had the killer had a knife, he would not have been able to blast his way in to the school, had the Colorado shooter had a baseball bat the chances are good he could have been contained before killing.
No one is saying people can't have guns for hunting, or home defense. But I do find it odd that in a country that has as many guns as we do, we are not any safer for it. In fact our crime/death rates are much higher than most other countries (I think we rank 4th in the world). It says something about a country where it's easier to get a gun then it is to get medication.
And for those who whine "if you don't like it, leave" you obviously have no idea where YOU live. Our country was founded by those who disagreed with the status quo. I will continue to sign petitions and call/write my representative to let them know exactly how I feel.

Peace.
I respect your right to push for whatever you believe will help this country.

I also believe the founding fathers would have wanted whatever the British had at their disposal. I our case we are ill prepared for a revolution.

I think ol George Washington would have been fine with a better weapon... just in case.
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Blackcat31 01:38 PM 12-17-2012
I live in a state that has had several school shootings.
The first being in 1966.
The most "well-known" being either Red Lake or Cold Springs.

None of them used assault rifles. 2 of the more well known shootings included a .22 calibur pistol.

I don't believe that banning certain types of weapons will have any impact on this type of thing.

I personally do not hunt. I grew up in a hunting family. I know how to shoot many different types of guns. I do not personally own any guns. If I could afford to, I would.

Two of my immediate family members died at the hands of guns. Do I blame the guns? Nope.

I agree with what Brent said; "What we need IMO is to take care of ourselves/towns/state/country/world…our love, our spirit, our soul. What “makes” people do this is what needs our attention.
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Country Kids 01:39 PM 12-17-2012
Originally Posted by MamaG:
Or lets ban cars!
I always think the doggy in your picture is a sheep laying on hay! He's a cutie and looks very lovable-
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JenNJ 01:39 PM 12-17-2012
On the same day as Sandy Hook, a man in China killed 22 students in a school with a knife. http://worldnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2...-in-china?lite

So no, guns don't kill people. Neither do knives. Or fertilizer. Or remote controls. What kills people is mentally unstable people.

In almost every single mass murder case, behind it lies a disturbed person. Until this country wakes up and realizes that we have a TERRIBLE lack of understanding about mental health, we will continue down this road. Navigating the mental health options in the US is a nightmare. Families cannot help and most of the time the individuals themselves are too unstable to help themselves or even realize they need help.

Read this very interesting blog post from a mother of a mentally ill child. It is really eye opening in many ways.
http://anarchistsoccermom.blogspot.c...thinkable.html
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MarinaVanessa 01:45 PM 12-17-2012
Originally Posted by JenNJ:
On the same day as Sandy Hook, a man in China killed 22 students in a school with a knife. http://worldnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2...-in-china?lite

So no, guns don't kill people. Neither do knives. Or fertilizer. Or remote controls. What kills people is mentally unstable people.

In almost every single mass murder case, behind it lies a disturbed person. Until this country wakes up and realizes that we have a TERRIBLE lack of understanding about mental health, we will continue down this road. Navigating the mental health options in the US is a nightmare. Families cannot help and most of the time the individuals themselves are too unstable to help themselves or even realize they need help.

Read this very interesting blog post from a mother of a mentally ill child. It is really eye opening in many ways.
http://anarchistsoccermom.blogspot.c...thinkable.html
Well said.
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Country Kids 01:48 PM 12-17-2012
Originally Posted by Blackcat31:
I live in a state that has had several school shootings.
The first being in 1966.
The most "well-known" being either Red Lake or Cold Springs.

None of them used assault rifles. 2 of the more well known shootings included a .22 calibur pistol.

I don't believe that banning certain types of weapons will have any impact on this type of thing.

I personally do not hunt. I grew up in a hunting family. I know how to shoot many different types of guns. I do not personally own any guns. If I could afford to, I would.

Two of my immediate family members died at the hands of guns. Do I blame the guns? Nope.

I agree with what Brent said; "What we need IMO is to take care of ourselves/towns/state/country/world…our love, our spirit, our soul. What “makes” people do this is what needs our attention.
Interesting I've never heard of those shootings? Are they more known in your area or country wise?

Everytime they started a showing of school shootings this weekend it all started with Thurston High School. I had been there for things during high school myself and know it is well known place for soccer tournaments. I always get a heavy heart walking past the memorial for the students that died.

Now we have the Clackamas Mall shooting. A friend was telling me that when they were there this weekend, a mom was standing outside the mall trying to convince her child that they would be ok if they went inside. Oh, how sad that our children don't even feel safe to go shopping-. I guess they are still trying to figure that one out as the guy had nothing on him for past arrests/tickets. He was actually suppose to move to Hawaii this last Saturday.
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Binkybobo 01:51 PM 12-17-2012
It's getting all political up in here. Why is that when the givernment pushes for laws that would make it harder for a young man like this to get these weapons everyone gets up in an uproar. BTW, I am fully aware that these guns were registered in his mother's name, but there have been many other cases where this has not been the case. I am not saying ban guns. I'm saying if having to wait a couple of weeks to be cleared to be able to purchase a weapon will save lives why do people have a with it? It is not like we are kids on Christmas morning! I can patiently wait for my background and sanity to be cleared if it will save lives. I know people will still find a way to get guns illegally, but every little bit counts. Honestly, I think that there are probably too many guns floating around for any kind of ban to ever work! I live in TX. Mexico is my neighbor. Good luck trying to take a cowboys gun away!.Have fun wasting money on the war on guns. They'll waste just as much money on this as they have wasted on the war on marajuana! Let's not start a sub-subject on that. We'll just keep digging ourselves deeper in debt for nonsense reasons. It'll be just as successful as the war on alcohol! Prohibition=Epic Fail
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laundrymom 01:56 PM 12-17-2012
Copy & paste this for me, except, I have no ar15 although I asked santa for one.
Originally Posted by MarinaVanessa:
I have to politely disagree with the assault rifle opinion. I am one of those that owns an AR-15, several hunting rifles and quite a few handguns. Licensing knows that we own them and we have showed them where they and the ammo is kept. I am a responsible gun enthusiast and follow all laws including following the requirements to owning the AR-15.

I think that instead of pointing fingers to place blame on gun control laws or to ban assault rifles our focus should be more on better access to mental health care for the general population. Or if anything, place blame where it is due ... such as the aggressors and perhaps parents if the agressor is a child.

If making something illegal will reduce or remove unwanted behavior and actions then why is that we still have a drug problem in america? Just because drugs are illegal does not make them inaccessible. I don't think that banning assault rifles will help matters because if someone determined to hurt someone can't get a hold of one then they'll simply use a handgun, a shotgun, a bomb, a knife, a brick, a baseball bat, a kitchen knife, a piece of rope ... anything they can get their hands on.

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Blackcat31 01:57 PM 12-17-2012
Originally Posted by Country Kids:
Interesting I've never heard of those shootings? Are they more known in your area or country wise?
No, both are rather well known and had TONS of media coverage across the country.

Ricori High Cold Springs MN September 24, 2003 15 yr old shooter. Currently in prison and eligible for parole in 2038. Killed 2 students
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rocori_...chool_shooting

Red Lake (Indian Reservation) Red Lake, MN March 21, 2005 16 yr old shooter. Committed suicide on site. 9 dead, 5 wounded 2 others killed before on campus killings
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_Lake_massacre
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SunshineMama 02:03 PM 12-17-2012
Originally Posted by Binkybobo:
It's getting all political up in here. Why is that when the givernment pushes for laws that would make it harder for a young man like this to get these weapons everyone gets up in an uproar. BTW, I am fully aware that these guns were registered in his mother's name, but there have been many other cases where this has not been the case. I am not saying ban guns. I'm saying if having to wait a couple of weeks to be cleared to be able to purchase a weapon will save lives why do people have a with it? It is not like we are kids on Christmas morning! I can patiently wait for my background and sanity to be cleared if it will save lives. I know people will still find a way to get guns illegally, but every little bit counts. Honestly, I think that there are probably too many guns floating around for any kind of ban to ever work! I live in TX. Mexico is my neighbor. Good luck trying to take a cowboys gun away!.Have fun wasting money on the war on guns. They'll waste just as much money on this as they have wasted on the war on marajuana! Let's not start a sub-subject on that. We'll just keep digging ourselves deeper in debt for nonsense reasons. It'll be just as successful as the war on alcohol! Prohibition=Epic Fail
Many states actually do have wait-times to receive guns. I used to live in NC, and it took up to a week to get clearance for a handgun. The state I live in now does an automatic background check. From my understanding, Connecticut has some of the most stringent gun control laws in our country, yet the law did not protect the innocent. People who are going to commit a crime do not care about the law. The profile of the type of person who is going to shoot up a bunch of children, is the same type of calculated person who would find other ways to get around not having a gun.

By no coincidence all of the worst mass murders in US history have been non-gun:

Worst School Massacre in US history: Bath, Michigan School Massacre. 1927. Murder accomplished with explosives. 44 victims (equal to the Columbine and Virginia Tech massacres combined).

Worst Domestic Terrorist Attack in US History: Oklahoma City, Oklahoma, Alfred P. Murrah Federal Building bombing. 4/19/95. Murder accomplished with a rental truck full of fertilizer based explosives. 168 dead (including many children in an onsite day care).

Worst Foreign based Terrorist Attack in US History: September 11, 2001 attacks on NYC, PA, Pentagon. Murder accomplished with box cutters and commerical airliners. 3,000 people dead.
no guns needed.

This nut case in Colorado put a great deal of time and planning into his attack on the theater - I think it is very likely that if he didnt have access to guns he most likely would have found another weapon to get the job done and if the weapon he chose was explosives the results could have been much worse
the majority of terrorist attacks in recent times, most of which involve car bombs (London), attaché bombs on trains (Madrid), the Sarin gas attack in Tokyo, etc. (and in fact almost all modern terrorist attacks are done without guns)


Sorry this post is difficult to read- I think little fingers got to my computer and spilled some water on it My keyboard is a mess.
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Crystal 02:08 PM 12-17-2012
Originally Posted by MarinaVanessa:
I am one of those that believes that if you don't agree with something you have a right to your opinion ... but you don't have a right to force your opinions onto others that do not agree with you. Banning guns is doing just that, you are saying that because you do not believe in having certain types of weapons that I should have to give mine up even though I do not believe in that at all. And just as you will continue to write to your representative and sign petitions, so will I. The only difference is that you are saying that no one should have these types of guns ... I am not saying that everyone should be forced to own one. I think that if one does not believe in having them then it should be their choice not to have one just like if someone does then it should be their right to own one.
This can go both ways. Why are those of that are opposed to guns (not all guns) made to have the opinion of pro-gun advocates forced on us? Especially when we are seeing, almost daily, innocent people being killed?

Certainly there is to be considered that these people are mentally unstable....but what can we do to prevent these weapons being placed in the hands of those that are mentally disturbed? We cannot prevent it because these weapons are legal, and often we do not recognize that someone is mentally defunct UNTIL they commit these acts of horror. So, these mentally unstable people have access to these weapons and there is nothing anyone can do to stop them.

I am not neccessarily saying ban them altogether....BUT, there MUST be some sort of control in order to prevent this from happening. We cannot just sit around saying guns don't kill people, people kill people.....certainly the person pulls the trigger, but if they didn't have the weapon in the first place, it would not occur.

We can talk about responsible gun ownership until we are blue in the face. That isn't going to prevent unstable people from accessing guns and killing innocent people. SOMETHING has to be done to prevent this type of mass killing.

I wonder how many of these children's parents were advocates of the right to bear arms prior to this happening, and how many felt differently on December 14th.
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Crystal 02:09 PM 12-17-2012
Originally Posted by JenNJ:
On the same day as Sandy Hook, a man in China killed 22 students in a school with a knife. http://worldnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2...-in-china?lite

So no, guns don't kill people. Neither do knives. Or fertilizer. Or remote controls. What kills people is mentally unstable people.

In almost every single mass murder case, behind it lies a disturbed person. Until this country wakes up and realizes that we have a TERRIBLE lack of understanding about mental health, we will continue down this road. Navigating the mental health options in the US is a nightmare. Families cannot help and most of the time the individuals themselves are too unstable to help themselves or even realize they need help.

Read this very interesting blog post from a mother of a mentally ill child. It is really eye opening in many ways.
http://anarchistsoccermom.blogspot.c...thinkable.html
Those children are still alive.....at least I am not seeing anywhere that it is reported that they are dead. The children who were SHOT at Sandy Hook are not.
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Binkybobo 02:10 PM 12-17-2012
Originally Posted by SunshineMama:
Many states actually do have wait-times to receive guns. I used to live in NC, and it took up to a week to get clearance for a handgun. The state I live in now does an automatic background check. From my understanding, Connecticut has some of the most stringent gun control laws in our country, yet the law did not protect the innocent. People who are going to commit a crime do not care about the law. The profile of the type of person who is going to shoot up a bunch of children, is the same type of calculated person who would find other ways to get around not having a gun.

By no coincidence all of the worst mass murders in US history have been non-gun:

Worst School Massacre in US history: Bath, Michigan School Massacre. 1927. Murder accomplished with explosives. 44 victims (equal to the Columbine and Virginia Tech massacres combined).

Worst Domestic Terrorist Attack in US History: Oklahoma City, Oklahoma, Alfred P. Murrah Federal Building bombing. 4/19/95. Murder accomplished with a rental truck full of fertilizer based explosives. 168 dead (including many children in an onsite day care).

Worst Foreign based Terrorist Attack in US History: September 11, 2001 attacks on NYC, PA, Pentagon. Murder accomplished with box cutters and commerical airliners. 3,000 people dead.
no guns needed.

This nut case in Colorado put a great deal of time and planning into his attack on the theater - I think it is very likely that if he didnt have access to guns he most likely would have found another weapon to get the job done and if the weapon he chose was explosives the results could have been much worse
the majority of terrorist attacks in recent times, most of which involve car bombs (London), attaché bombs on trains (Madrid), the Sarin gas attack in Tokyo, etc. (and in fact almost all modern terrorist attacks are done without guns)


Sorry this post is difficult to read- I think little fingers got to my computer and spilled some water on it My keyboard is a mess.
My entire post was devoted to saying how banning guns would be draining and pointless.
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Country Kids 02:15 PM 12-17-2012
It doesn't just happen here:

http://listverse.com/2008/01/01/top-...ool-massacres/


Please note its not just America. It is every where in every area of our world.
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Crystal 02:22 PM 12-17-2012
Originally Posted by Country Kids:
It doesn't just happen here:

http://listverse.com/2008/01/01/top-...ool-massacres/


Please note its not just America. It is every where in every area of our world.
Of course it is not just America. IMO, it doesn't matter where, it just matters that it DOES happen.
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daycarediva 02:25 PM 12-17-2012
Originally Posted by MarinaVanessa:
I have to politely disagree with the assault rifle opinion. I am one of those that owns an AR-15, several hunting rifles and quite a few handguns. Licensing knows that we own them and we have showed them where they and the ammo is kept. I am a responsible gun enthusiast and follow all laws including following the requirements to owning the AR-15.

I think that instead of pointing fingers to place blame on gun control laws or to ban assault rifles our focus should be more on better access to mental health care for the general population. Or if anything, place blame where it is due ... such as the aggressors and perhaps parents if the agressor is a child.

If making something illegal will reduce or remove unwanted behavior and actions then why is that we still have a drug problem in america? Just because drugs are illegal does not make them inaccessible. I don't think that banning assault rifles will help matters because if someone determined to hurt someone can't get a hold of one then they'll simply use a handgun, a shotgun, a bomb, a knife, a brick, a baseball bat, a kitchen knife, a piece of rope ... anything they can get their hands on.
Yes, this! I own guns, have them all inspected by licensing and my dcp's are all aware. I spent a solid YEAR to legally obtain my pistol permit. It would have taken my dh 20 minutes to drive downtown and $200 to obtain the SAME WEAPON illegally.

There is an ILLUSION of gun control. Just like there is the ILLUSION of drug control.
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Country Kids 02:28 PM 12-17-2012
Originally Posted by Crystal:
Of course it is not just America. IMO, it doesn't matter where, it just matters that it DOES happen.
My biggest, biggest question is why all very young boys and men. Seriously, the one that blew up the school in the 20's was higher person in the schools. Then the Texas Bell tower guy was intelligent from what I remember. Does something just snap in their mind.
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My3cents 02:29 PM 12-17-2012
Originally Posted by Crystal:
In light of many recent mass shootings, and because the great gun debate was started in a thread meant to honor victims, I a starting a new thread dedicated to gun control.

I am with those that beleive there needs to be limits as to which weapons are available to the public. I see nothing wrong with being able to own a weapon for protection or hunting, however I see no reason for the general population to have access to high powere assault weapons.

While there is always the (lame) argument that "guns don't kill people, people kill people" the truth of the matter is the people who are the perpetrators of mass shootings could not have killed more than a couple of people as opposed to dozens of people....THAT is why there needs to be limits to the type of weapons that these poeple can legally get their hands on.
I am sorry I commented on the other thread........

Key word here is legally--- If someone wants to cause destruction these weapons are out there, doesn't matter if they are legal or not. I don't think it went through his head that he was using a registered gun when he did what he did. I think it goes beyond gun control and more of a mental issue- Just how I see it. Again my heart aches for these families and kids and loved ones.
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daycarediva 02:29 PM 12-17-2012
I strongly believe that if a person this mentally ill is planning to perpetrate violence on such a massive scale, they will do so, regardless of the legality of it. (of course). Bombs, biological weapons, etc.

If a private citizen had been ARMED at the school, a LOT less lives would have been taken. It takes the police FOR.EV.ER. to respond. If someone was shooting in/near my home, my husband (a licensed, non criminal, mentally stable, sharpshooting, gun owner) would respond within minutes.

If we take the LEGALLY obtained guns away from private citizens, it will only enable illegal weapons and criminals to have that much fear/control over us as a whole.
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daycarediva 02:32 PM 12-17-2012
Originally Posted by Country Kids:
My biggest, biggest question is why all very young boys and men. Seriously, the one that blew up the school in the 20's was higher person in the schools. Then the Texas Bell tower guy was intelligent from what I remember. Does something just snap in their mind.
I have a theory on this, and it is strongly linked to the pharmaceutical medication that these young kids are on. I have a boy in my care diagnosed with bipolar, adhd, AND aspergers. He has a tendency to be violent (towards Mom only so far) and is on a LIST of anti psychotic medications with DANGEROUS, SCARY side effects all of which have gone untested on the growing child's brain. THAT is SCARY,


My cousin shot himself when he was weaned from adderall & an antidepressant in the late 90's. His note said he killed himself before someone else too.
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Angelwings36 02:34 PM 12-17-2012
In Canada it takes up to 60 days to obtain a firearm, after registering, taking a course and going through background checks. People still own guns in our country it's just harder to obtain them. Although I am not in US I also agree that guns should not be banned.

Personally I think people should be pushing for better security in the schools and in public areas where large amounts of people gather at one time.

It boogles my mind when I think about the ratio of teachers to students. My son's Kindergarden class had 22 students to one teacher!! To me that is completely insane. As a home daycare provider I am aware that it is impossible to ensure the safety of children when ratio's are so high. How could one teacher protect 22 students if a tragedy ever hit the school? Then you look at the ratio of students to teacher on the playground which is even less!! Personally I think if these large student to teacher ratios are going to continue then school's should have increased security in order to protect the children. If the government is already willing to sink money in to ban guns then why not sink it in where it should matter the most, in the safety of our children in the school systems?
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Country Kids 02:36 PM 12-17-2012
Originally Posted by daycarediva:
I have a theory on this, and it is strongly linked to the pharmaceutical medication that these young kids are on. I have a boy in my care diagnosed with bipolar, adhd, AND aspergers. He has a tendency to be violent (towards Mom only so far) and is on a LIST of anti psychotic medications with DANGEROUS, SCARY side effects all of which have gone untested on the growing child's brain. THAT is SCARY,


My cousin shot himself when he was weaned from adderall & an antidepressant in the late 90's. His note said he killed himself before someone else too.
Are just boys proned to these types of mental disorders? Thats what I'm not understanding-it seems to be just boys.
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daycarediva 02:43 PM 12-17-2012
Originally Posted by Country Kids:
Are just boys proned to these types of mental disorders? Thats what I'm not understanding-it seems to be just boys.
Yes, boys are much more likely to be diagnosed with these conditions. I can't remember the actual numbers. For instance, aspergers/autism boys are like 90% of the diagnosed cases. There is no medication for autism, but EVERY TIME my son sees his psychologist he gives me the same anti psychotic prescriptions that they give to my dcb with multiple dx's. My son isn't psychotic, he is disabled. He has never been medicated and never will be.
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Binkybobo 02:46 PM 12-17-2012
Why is that suicidal thoughts are a side effect of antidepressants? What's the point?
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Brent 02:50 PM 12-17-2012
The nerve toxin Sarin comes from the castor bean and its not hard to make. Remember the Tokyo subway attack where 13 people died? It was the intent to harm people. Japan didn't ban castor beans.

Guns are also used for defense. If a woman were accosted in her home by five men looking to do evil. What would be the great neutralizer; 911, pepper spray or a handgun? Crime takes just seconds where the police take minutes to respond.

We only hear about the bad stories of guns.
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jen 02:53 PM 12-17-2012
This is the most sensible thing that I have heard on the gun control debate. I appreciate that this guy, one of the strongest backers of the NRA, has the common sense to say, "hey, maybe we should look at this!"


Sen. Joe Manchin (D-W.Va.) said "everything" must be considered to prevent tragedies like Newtown. (Photo by Spencer Platt/Getty Images)


WASHINGTON -- Sen. Joe Manchin (D-W.Va.), one of the strongest backers of the National Rifle Association (NRA) in the Democratic Party, said it is time to sit down and have a "sensible, reasonable" debate about gun control in light of the massacre in Newtown, Conn., and expressed an openness to banning assault weapons.

"It's time to move beyond rhetoric. We need to sit down and have a common-sense discussion and move in a reasonable way. ... Everything has to be on the table," Manchin said in an interview on MSNBC's "Morning Joe" on Monday, adding that he had just come from deer hunting with his family.

Manchin's comments are significant because he has an "A" rating from the NRA for his pro-gun positions, and the organization endorsed him as recently as October 2012.

"Joe Manchin is committed to protecting the Right to Keep and Bear Arms guaranteed to all Americans," NRA Chairman Chris Cox said.

Manchin also appears to be the first senator with an "A" rating from the NRA to go on national television in the wake of the Newtown shooting. On Sunday, David Gregory of NBC's "Meet the Press" said all 31 "pro-gun rights" senators in the new Congress turned down his request to appear on the show. CBS's "Face the Nation" said it ran into a similar problem. Manchin spokeswoman Emily Bittner told The Huffington Post their office had no record of "Meet the Press" reaching out to interview the senator on Sunday.

In Monday's interview, Manchin was critical of assault rifles, saying no hunter needs a weapon like that, although he didn't explicitly say he would back Sen. Dianne Feinstein's (D-Calif.) ban on such weapons, which she has said she will introduce in the new year.

"I don't know anyone who in the hunting or sporting arena that goes out with an assault rifle. I don't know anybody that needs 30 rounds in the clip to go hunting," Manchin said. "I mean, these are things that need to be talked about."

While the NRA has always opposed such a ban in the past, Manchin said he believed the nature of the tragedy in Newtown changed the landscape.

"What's happened -- it's always been to the point when once you open it up, pretty soon you'll give up your whole Second Amendment rights, taking guns away and people not allowed to have guns. That's not what this should be about," Manchin said. "Millions and millions of people are proud gun owners, and they do it responsibly and by the law. So I think opening up and seeing the massacre of so many innocent children, it's changed. It's changed America. We've never seen this happen."

Manchin also said, however, that the NRA should have a seat at the table during the gun control debate.

"What I want to do is I want to call all our friends in the NRA and sit down and have this -- bring them into it," he added. "They have to be at the table."

Since the shooting in Newtown, the NRA has been silent and even took down its Facebook page.

This is a developing story and has been updated.
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canadiancare 03:01 PM 12-17-2012
Originally Posted by JenNJ:
On the same day as Sandy Hook, a man in China killed 22 students in a school with a knife. http://worldnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2...-in-china?lite

So no, guns don't kill people. Neither do knives. Or fertilizer. Or remote controls. What kills people is mentally unstable people.

In almost every single mass murder case, behind it lies a disturbed person. Until this country wakes up and realizes that we have a TERRIBLE lack of understanding about mental health, we will continue down this road. Navigating the mental health options in the US is a nightmare. Families cannot help and most of the time the individuals themselves are too unstable to help themselves or even realize they need help.

Read this very interesting blog post from a mother of a mentally ill child. It is really eye opening in many ways.
http://anarchistsoccermom.blogspot.c...thinkable.html
Just to be clear not a single person died as a result of their knife injuries.

Drinking and Driving is illegal. People who do it anyway are committing a crime that the population has to have faith our law minders will deal with.
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canadiancare 03:05 PM 12-17-2012
also if a shooter walks into a classroom they can stand in the doorway trapping the victims until every last one of them is shot. If someone walks in with a knife, machete, baseball bat pretty well any other easy to obtain weapon they will need to physically approach someone in order to inflict harm- there is a chance that the others can escape/restrain the perpetrator at that time.
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Blackcat31 03:09 PM 12-17-2012
Originally Posted by canadiancare:
Just to be clear not a single person died as a result of their knife injuries.
This time.

The recent stabbings in China only echo a string of similar assaults against school children in 2010 that killed nearly 20 and wounded more than 50.
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canadiancare 03:18 PM 12-17-2012
Originally Posted by Blackcat31:
This time.

The recent stabbings in China only echo a string of similar assaults against school children in 2010 that killed nearly 20 and wounded more than 50.
absolutely. I am not saying that stabbing is the way to go. I am clarifying that you can't just read the headline and assume that 22 victims were slashed to death.

The gun death stats for US schools are the worst in the developed world. Yes other countries have had incidents of massacres, too but then have taken measures to ensure they don't happen again.
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Blackcat31 03:29 PM 12-17-2012
Originally Posted by canadiancare:
absolutely. I am not saying that stabbing is the way to go. I am clarifying that you can't just read the headline and assume that 22 victims were slashed to death.

The gun death stats for US schools are the worst in the developed world. Yes other countries have had incidents of massacres, too but then have taken measures to ensure they don't happen again.
But I don't think it is always the measures taken to prevent them that prevents them. I think it is so many other things.

There is no other country in the world that lives as "freely" and as egocentrically as the United States. THAT is what I believe is at the root of things like this.
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Countrygal 03:49 PM 12-17-2012
Assault weapons are already banned, depending upon the type. Noone can just walk around with an M-16, for example. As another poster said, the weapon used in Connecticut was a small caliber rifle. Not a heavy assault weapon like we would normally think of them. At one point I had heard it was a .223 caliber, not much more power than my squirrel/varmint gun.

Part of the problem in banning assault weapons is: what is an assault weapon? What characteristics does it need to have to be banned? What characteristics are acceptable? Where do we draw the line and why? And remember, these weapons, just like the already banned heavy assault weapons, will still be available on the black market. Three of the four guns this kid possessed were perfectly normal guns - 2 handguns and a shotgun. (most people I know have a 9mm and a shotgun). Even the .223 is a relatively common competition rifle, from what I've read. The problem would not have been averted by him not having the .223 rifle.

I do not agree with banning guns - it is a constitutional right and it was put there for a reason. I live in the country. I have had to shoot two sick(possibly rabid) coons and a sick chicken. What would I have done without a weapon? The police aren't going to come out here and shoot my coon or chicken...., but that coon could spread rabies to my kids, pets and farm animals.

Banning guns is not the answer. Raising our kids right is. That includes everything that goes into their heads from movies, video games, etc. AND proper consequences of actions from little on up.....

OK, got me on a bandwagon.....
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Sugar Magnolia 03:52 PM 12-17-2012
Crystal (and everyone), I think it was me that took your original post to OT land, and for that I apologize. My initial horror and sorrow quickly gave way to anger over the circumstances. But so did many others in the national debate.
I will say this....if you can squeeze a trigger, hold it, and have up to 16 rounds per second discharge, that weapon should be for military use only. High capacity clips are for committing mass murder, or a military person to kill enemy combatants. Any alternate uses, besides "recreation"? Anyone? We all know that hunting and home protection are kinda silly arguments for automatic assault rifles with high capacity clips.

"No Comment" from the NRA. THAT speaks volumes.

Ok "guns don't kill people, people kill people". True, and fair enough. But automatic assault rifles and 100 round clips DEFINITELY contribute to mass executions of innocent people.
I heard this on TV today. Since 1968, one million Americans have been killed by gunshot wounds. That is like the entire populations of Tampa and Orlando. Chew on that .fact.
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Countrygal 03:52 PM 12-17-2012
Originally Posted by Blackcat31:
But I don't think it is always the measures taken to prevent them that prevents them. I think it is so many other things.

There is no other country in the world that lives as "freely" and as egocentrically as the United States. THAT is what I believe is at the root of things like this.
*like*
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Unregistered 04:08 PM 12-17-2012
Originally Posted by Sugar Magnolia:

Ok "guns don't kill people, people kill people". True, and fair enough. But automatic assault rifles and 100 round clips DEFINITELY contribute to mass executions of innocent people.
I heard this on TV today. Since 1968, one million Americans have been killed by gunshot wounds. That is like the entire populations of Tampa and Orlando. Chew on that .fact.
Can you source that for me? When I read something like that it feels like an emotional trap. Are you referring to ALL gunshot wounds from our wars, suicides, crime, etc.?

How many governments have taken away the peoples right to bear arms and summarily slaughtered them? Shall we go into real numbers?

I do NOT think people should own tanks, bazookas, hand grenades, Biological, nuclear weapons. I DO believe in death control and personal protection.
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familyschoolcare 04:18 PM 12-17-2012
Originally Posted by Unregistered:
Can you source that for me? When I read something like that it feels like an emotional trap. Are you referring to ALL gunshot wounds from our wars, suicides, crime, etc.?

How many governments have taken away the peoples right to bear arms and summarily slaughtered them? Shall we go into real numbers?

I do NOT think people should own tanks, bazookas, hand grenades, Biological, nuclear weapons. I DO believe in death control and personal protection.
Americans are very me centered have been since before The United States of America, was its own country.
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MizzCheryl 04:21 PM 12-17-2012
Antidepressants and mental illness are more to blame than the guns. For teen and young adults antidepressants can cause them to become very angry and suicidal. This combonation is dangerous.
Yes some can benefit from antidepressants but others can flip out.
I bet it will come out that this young man was on and off of antidepressants just like the others were.

I know someone that has been on Paxil since age 7. Doctors should be so careful. These drugs are serious when it comes to young people.
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Blackcat31 04:26 PM 12-17-2012
Originally Posted by Sugar Magnolia:
"No Comment" from the NRA. THAT speaks volumes..
On their behalf though, they probably are tired of being blamed as the root of these tragedies and would rather not comment since really what is the point? People who believe and support the NRA do and those that don't, don't. No need to comment in my opinion.



Originally Posted by Sugar Magnolia:
I heard this on TV today. Since 1968, one million Americans have been killed by gunshot wounds. That is like the entire populations of Tampa and Orlando. Chew on that .fact
Just since 1982 that many people have died in drink driving accidents. http://www.alcoholalert.com/drunk-dr...tatistics.html
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littlemissmuffet 04:33 PM 12-17-2012
Originally Posted by Blackcat31:
There is no other country in the world that lives as "freely" and as egocentrically as the United States. THAT is what I believe is at the root of things like this.
I couldn't agree more.
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laundrymom 04:36 PM 12-17-2012
Originally Posted by familyschoolcare:
Americans are very me centered have been since before The United States of America, was its own country.
Can you explain this a bit, I'm afraid I may be a little unclear on what you mean and don't want to comment unless I'm sure.
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Michael 04:45 PM 12-17-2012
Originally Posted by familyschoolcare:
Americans are very me centered have been since before The United States of America, was its own country.
Originally Posted by laundrymom:
Can you explain this a bit, I'm afraid I may be a little unclear on what you mean and don't want to comment unless I'm sure.
Let me try. I do translation all the time:


Americans are very self-centered and have been since before The United States of America was a country.


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Cat Herder 04:47 PM 12-17-2012
Originally Posted by Michael:
Let me try. I do translation all the time:


Americans are very self-centered and have been since before The United States of America was a country.

Thanks Michael.



Which ones? From which countries?
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Blackcat31 04:56 PM 12-17-2012
Apparently there are no provisions stating I have the right to bear arms in my state.

Neither do residents of California, Iowa, Maryland, Minnesota, New Jersey, and New York.

http://www2.law.ucla.edu/volokh/statearms.pdf

Whereas states such as West Virginia and Wisconsin state

“A person has the right to keep and bear arms for the defense of self, family, home and state, and for lawful hunting and recreational use.”

so don't fret Countrygal....your right to shoot racoons and chickens can't be infringed upon
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lil angels 05:07 PM 12-17-2012
Originally Posted by daycarediva:
I strongly believe that if a person this mentally ill is planning to perpetrate violence on such a massive scale, they will do so, regardless of the legality of it. (of course). Bombs, biological weapons, etc.

If a private citizen had been ARMED at the school, a LOT less lives would have been taken. It takes the police FOR.EV.ER. to respond. If someone was shooting in/near my home, my husband (a licensed, non criminal, mentally stable, sharpshooting, gun owner) would respond within minutes.

If we take the LEGALLY obtained guns away from private citizens, it will only enable illegal weapons and criminals to have that much fear/control over us as a whole.

This exactly.... I think the teachers should be aloud to be trained and legal to carry at school or any other business for that matter if the ad people know somebody else will be there with a weapon then they would think twice about it. Or they would be stopped a lot faster!
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Country Kids 05:10 PM 12-17-2012
The news just said for my area that gun sales have sky rocketed since Friday. They have noticed that when there is a shooting this happens as people worry about guns being banned from sales.
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Sugar Magnolia 05:16 PM 12-17-2012
Originally Posted by Unregistered:
Can you source that for me? When I read something like that it feels like an emotional trap. Are you referring to ALL gunshot wounds from our wars, suicides, crime, etc.?

How many governments have taken away the peoples right to bear arms and summarily slaughtered them? Shall we go into real numbers?

I do NOT think people should own tanks, bazookas, hand grenades, Biological, nuclear weapons. I DO believe in death control and personal protection.
It was on Morning Joe on msnbc, Joe (a Republican) was citing the Justice Department and CDC I believe. The number did not include wars. It was total deaths by gunshots involving crime or suicide.

I don't think anyone is suggesting we eliminate the 2nd amendment. Is that what you mean by "taking away right to bare arms"? I am not suggesting repealing the 2nd amendment, merely keeping military killing equipment in the hands of the military. Pretty straight forward.

I am still waiting for someone to tell me, aside from the entertainment or recreation, what a private citizen needs a 100 round clip during 16 rounds per second for?

Again, the silence of the NRA speaks volumes.
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Country Kids 05:17 PM 12-17-2012
Originally Posted by Sugar Magnolia:
Crystal (and everyone), I think it was me that took your original post to OT land, and for that I apologize. My initial horror and sorrow quickly gave way to anger over the circumstances. But so did many others in the national debate.
I will say this....if you can squeeze a trigger, hold it, and have up to 16 rounds per second discharge, that weapon should be for military use only. High capacity clips are for committing mass murder, or a military person to kill enemy combatants. Any alternate uses, besides "recreation"? Anyone? We all know that hunting and home protection are kinda silly arguments for automatic assault rifles with high capacity clips.

"No Comment" from the NRA. THAT speaks volumes.

Ok "guns don't kill people, people kill people". True, and fair enough. But automatic assault rifles and 100 round clips DEFINITELY contribute to mass executions of innocent people.
I heard this on TV today. Since 1968, one million Americans have been killed by gunshot wounds. That is like the entire populations of Tampa and Orlando. Chew on that .fact.
How many were killed in the Civil War in just 4 short years? With the weapons that had then it took a long time to get a gun loaded yet between those and the cannons many men died.
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Crystal 05:33 PM 12-17-2012
"Lt. J. Paul Vance with the Connecticut State Police told reporters Sunday morning that investigators are scrutinizing the guns Lanza took to the school, including the semiautomatic military-style rifle the state's medical examiner said was used in the school killings."
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Sugar Magnolia 05:38 PM 12-17-2012
Originally Posted by Crystal:
"Lt. J. Paul Vance with the Connecticut State Police told reporters Sunday morning that investigators are scrutinizing the guns Lanza took to the school, including the semiautomatic military-style rifle the state's medical examiner said was used in the school killings."
I watched the medical examiners news conference live on Sunday. I heard him say each victim was shot 3 to 11 times. Sickening.
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Brent 05:43 PM 12-17-2012
16 rounds a second is AUTOMATIC which is illegal. Semi-automatic; you pull the trigger, you shoot a bullet. So you are saying there is no need to have anything other than a single shot rifle? Pump action shotgun you can unload 3 shells in a second and it is neither automatic nor semi-automatic if it is a pump action. We can get into the weeds on this all day. You are not going to stop people from hurting and killing large amounts of people if they so choose to. You can arm law abiding citizens to help stop the bad guy since everyone is everywhere and cops will only come if you call 911.

I'm not saying to arm all people. I'm saying bad people do bad things and it takes good people to stop them.
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lil angels 05:46 PM 12-17-2012
Originally Posted by Brent:
16 rounds a second is AUTOMATIC which is illegal. Semi-automatic; you pull the trigger, you shoot a bullet. So you are saying there is no need to have anything other than a single shot rifle? Pump action shotgun you can unload 3 shells in a second and it is neither automatic nor semi-automatic if it is a pump action. We can get into the weeds on this all day. You are not going to stop people from hurting and killing large amounts of people if they so choose to. You can arm law abiding citizens to help stop the bad guy since everyone is everywhere and cops will only come if you call 911.

I'm not saying to arm all people. I'm saying bad people do bad things and it takes good people to stop them.

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Michael 05:50 PM 12-17-2012
Originally Posted by Sugar Magnolia:
I watched the medical examiners news conference live on Sunday. I heard him say each victim was shot 3 to 11 times. Sickening.
Yes, I saw the same press op and the multiple shooting of the children was sickening. To treat innocents in that manner is so evil. The medical examiner though was too matter of fact in his presentation to the point of even chuckling about himself to the media. He was over the top IMO. I would hate a job like that were you become so desensitized to such a horror.
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JenNJ 06:01 PM 12-17-2012
I'm sorry, I was mistaken about the stabbing in China. I meant to write attacked, not killed. That's what I get for being distracted.
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Michael 06:04 PM 12-17-2012
Originally Posted by JenNJ:
I'm sorry, I was mistaken about the stabbing in China. I meant to write attacked, not killed. That's what I get for being distracted.
Both of you have valid points.
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Countrygal 06:15 PM 12-17-2012
Originally Posted by Blackcat31:
Apparently there are no provisions stating I have the right to bear arms in my state.

Neither do residents of California, Iowa, Maryland, Minnesota, New Jersey, and New York.

http://www2.law.ucla.edu/volokh/statearms.pdf

Whereas states such as West Virginia and Wisconsin state

“A person has the right to keep and bear arms for the defense of self, family, home and state, and for lawful hunting and recreational use.”

so don't fret Countrygal....your right to shoot racoons and chickens can't be infringed upon
That's interesting BC. I'm sorry you don't share that right, but I think that our constitution
provides for it for you. Hopefully you won't come across any bears or rabid wild turkeys!

Unfortunately, tho, I don't know how long any of us will maintain those rights....

Honestly, I do not believe gun control is the issue here. There was a mass killing of innocent people, many of them children. It was horrendous and unacceptable, but it happened. We can never totally prevent these things from happening as long as there are people in this world. What the issue is and should be is helping those families to get through this time. It's Christmas. Think about how this Christmas will be for those families. I like the quote I got on a FB post from Mr. Roger's mother. I can't remember it exactly, but whenever something terrible happened, his mother would tell him to look for the helpers. They're always there, she said. And they were there in this instance. There were heroes. There were helpers. There were people who risked their lives and others who risked their lives and lost them. People stepped up in an emergency and stood for what was right and good. That's the story here. One madman went wild but a hundred other people stepped up and stood for what is good and merciful. THEY are they story. THEY are the ones we should be hearing about, NOT the one who caused the chaos, but the ones who took control. ...IMO...
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Unregistered 07:33 PM 12-17-2012
Originally Posted by Sugar Magnolia:
I watched the medical examiners news conference live on Sunday. I heard him say each victim was shot 3 to 11 times. Sickening.
It IS sickening.

What's also terrible- I'm sure that some of those teachers or faculty were gun owners. Yet, they chose to obey the law, and not bring firearms to school, and thy ended up victims. I only wonder, if they were allowed, under a trained ccw permit, to have a firearm, could lives have been spared? We have heard of the teacher who used her body as a human shield to protect the kids, and the teacher who hid the kids in the closet and said they were in the gym- what is one of them was armed? They could have at least had a fighting chance.

I went to a movie the other day, and saw a no firearms sign, so I had to go back to the car and leave my firearm in the car, because I am a law abiding citizen. A criminal would not care about that sign, or a law. Everyday citizens are the heros of this country. I don't want to sit around waiting for the cops to save me. I want to save me.

There are sickos in this world, and an evil that, as a Christian woman, I can only saw derives from the most evil and wicked, starting with the murder of Abel in Genesis. Evil will always exist until the end of time. Evil will always find a way. Let's give the good people a fighting chance!
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MyAngels 08:53 PM 12-17-2012
After talking to my resident arms expert (DH ), one thing that I think should be clarified here is what type of rifle this kid took into that school. The Bushmaster .223 semi-automatic rifle that he used is in fact an AR-15, which is an assault rifle. The AR-15 is currently manufactured by several companies under different brand names but they are all essentially the same.

The military currently uses an M4 fully automatic assault rifle, which evolved from the original M16. The AR-15 and the M16/M4 are very similar, the major difference being the semi-automatic vs automatic use of these guns. An automatic can shoot in bursts, while the semi-auto cannot. Both of these guns can hold a 30 round magazine, which are what the Sandy Hook shooter had. He had to have had several of these high capacity magazines with him for him to be able to shoot that many times in that short of a time.

For those of you wondering what possible use a private citizen could have for the perfectly legal AR-15 semi-automatic, my DH uses his for varmint hunting (coyotes and such). It is illegal to use it for hunting with a magazine larger than 5 rounds.

I would be in favor of banning the high capacity magazines for not only these types of guns, but all guns including handguns. In this case, if he had only had 5 round mags it's entirely plausible that there would have been fewer victims.
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Crystal 09:05 PM 12-17-2012
Originally Posted by MyAngels:
After talking to my resident arms expert (DH ), one thing that I think should be clarified here is what type of rifle this kid took into that school. The Bushmaster .223 semi-automatic rifle that he used is in fact an AR-15, which is an assault rifle. The AR-15 is currently manufactured by several companies under different brand names but they are all essentially the same.

The military currently uses an M4 fully automatic assault rifle, which evolved from the original M16. The AR-15 and the M16/M4 are very similar, the major difference being the semi-automatic vs automatic use of these guns. An automatic can shoot in bursts, while the semi-auto cannot. Both of these guns can hold a 30 round magazine, which are what the Sandy Hook shooter had. He had to have had several of these high capacity magazines with him for him to be able to shoot that many times in that short of a time.

For those of you wondering what possible use a private citizen could have for the perfectly legal AR-15 semi-automatic, my DH uses his for varmint hunting (coyotes and such). It is illegal to use it for hunting with a magazine larger than 5 rounds.

I would be in favor of banning the high capacity magazines for not only these types of guns, but all guns including handguns. In this case, if he had only had 5 round mags it's entirely plausible that there would have been fewer victims.
Now, here is a plausible idea. Not being a gun person, I was unaware that the size of the magazine could be limited so that there are less rounds that can be fired. Perhaps limiting this, rather than the actual weapon, would be a good starting point and a fair compromise for everyone on both sides of the issue. Thanks for sharing the information

Out of curiosity, Do you know if these types of weapons are permissable for hunting only, or are there other allowed uses for them?
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MyAngels 09:19 PM 12-17-2012
Originally Posted by Crystal:
Now, here is a plausible idea. Not being a gun person, I was unaware that the size of the magazine could be limited so that there are less rounds that can be fired. Perhaps limiting this, rather than the actual weapon, would be a good starting point and a fair compromise for everyone on both sides of the issue. Thanks for sharing the information

Out of curiosity, Do you know if these types of weapons are permissable for hunting only, or are there other allowed uses for them?
You can legally own and use an AR-15 semi-auto for anything you can do with any other gun. An automatic weapon can only be purchased or owned under very strict conditions. I'm not entirely sure how, but I think you have to have an FFL (Federal Firearms License) with a special designation, and then they have to be registered with the government.

My DH also mentioned that it's fairly easy to buy the parts to convert a semi-automatic weapon into an automatic .

During the Federal Assault Weapon Ban days it was illegal to buy the high capacity clips, but now they are pretty easy to come by.
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Sugar Magnolia 03:11 AM 12-18-2012
Originally Posted by MyAngels:

During the Federal Assault Weapon Ban days it was illegal to buy the high capacity clips, but now they are pretty easy to come by.
This! Yes! Reinstate please.
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Unregistered 03:54 AM 12-18-2012
Originally Posted by MyAngels:
You can legally own and use an AR-15 semi-auto for anything you can do with any other gun. An automatic weapon can only be purchased or owned under very strict conditions. I'm not entirely sure how, but I think you have to have an FFL (Federal Firearms License) with a special designation, and then they have to be registered with the government.

My DH also mentioned that it's fairly easy to buy the parts to convert a semi-automatic weapon into an automatic .

During the Federal Assault Weapon Ban days it was illegal to buy the high capacity clips, but now they are pretty easy to come by.
Your DH is right, it is easy to convert a semi auto to an automatic, but it is very illegal to do so. To possess an automatic weapon, even if you make it yourself, you have to have a class 3 security clearance, an extensive background check, and pay thousands of dollars. If you are caught with an automatic weapon, without these permits, you will go to jail.
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Scout 04:06 AM 12-18-2012
I do not like guns. I would not sleep peacefully knowing that we had a firearm in our home with two small children. That is not to say that we wouldn't be responsible with one. We would. People are & it is their right to own them. I just truly feel, and this is only my opinion, that the equation is pretty darn simple. No Guns, no mass shootings. What if one of those teachers had a loaded gun and a child found in & fired it? What would the debate be then? If they did I am pretty sure it would not be lawful to keep it loaded in a classroom. I don't know how long it takes to load a gun but, I would think if you needed one that quickly & had to stop to unlock the lock box for the gun & another for ammunition it would be too late to do any good anyway. What if Guns were banned completely by all except military and police? And I know that this would not stop some from acquiring firearms illegally, I was not born yesterday. I just feel that if no one were allowed to have a gun there would be less firearms all around simply because they would not be legal to sell them! My SIL bought a gun. Do you know what her background check was??? Giving her ID when she bought it!! No holding period?? WTH? That is complete crap and I know she is a responsible person but, not one person should be able to give an ID and walk out with a firearm that same day! But, unfortunately we are allowed guns & this is just something I have to deal with so I choose to teach my DS that if he sees one he is to get an adult right away. He knows he is not to touch one but, kids are curious so I, personally, wouldn't want one here. JMHO.
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My3cents 04:43 AM 12-18-2012
Originally Posted by lil angels:
This exactly.... I think the teachers should be aloud to be trained and legal to carry at school or any other business for that matter if the ad people know somebody else will be there with a weapon then they would think twice about it. Or they would be stopped a lot faster!
yikes this scares me---

Think about it more.....
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My3cents 05:12 AM 12-18-2012
Originally Posted by Crystal:
Certainly if someone wants a gun bad enough they will find one. However, it would be a heeluva lot more difficult to obtain one and perhaps, by the time the person did find one, they may have had the time to cool down and change their mind. Maybe, maybe not, but I'd rather they didn't have them sitting in their home when they get pissed or go off their rocker. I'd rather they'd have to go look for one.
I took this from the other thread that was for Prayers for the Children.......wanted to comment

I see where your going with this Crystal and I am for anything that would prevent this type of horrific event---

I don't think it would have mattered in this circumstance or one like it- this man was bent on doing what he did and would have gotten the weapon to do it, nothing would have stopped him from carrying out what he did. Shooting his mother- hid right mind was wacked out and I don't think legal or not legal played into it. I feel mental illness was his number one weapon- and he snapped.

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Country Kids 05:29 AM 12-18-2012
Originally Posted by MyAngels:
After talking to my resident arms expert (DH ), one thing that I think should be clarified here is what type of rifle this kid took into that school. The Bushmaster .223 semi-automatic rifle that he used is in fact an AR-15, which is an assault rifle. The AR-15 is currently manufactured by several companies under different brand names but they are all essentially the same.

The military currently uses an M4 fully automatic assault rifle, which evolved from the original M16. The AR-15 and the M16/M4 are very similar, the major difference being the semi-automatic vs automatic use of these guns. An automatic can shoot in bursts, while the semi-auto cannot. Both of these guns can hold a 30 round magazine, which are what the Sandy Hook shooter had. He had to have had several of these high capacity magazines with him for him to be able to shoot that many times in that short of a time.

For those of you wondering what possible use a private citizen could have for the perfectly legal AR-15 semi-automatic, my DH uses his for varmint hunting (coyotes and such). It is illegal to use it for hunting with a magazine larger than 5 rounds.

I would be in favor of banning the high capacity magazines for not only these types of guns, but all guns including handguns. In this case, if he had only had 5 round mags it's entirely plausible that there would have been fewer victims.
This what my son told me. Most people will use them for varmint hunting as you said (coyotes and such). You don't hunt big game with them.
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MyAngels 06:31 AM 12-18-2012
Originally Posted by Sugar Magnolia:
This! Yes! Reinstate please.
If the Assault Weapons Ban as it was written in 1994 is reinstated it will do very little to reduce gun violence in the US. Researchers found that the limiting of the high capacity magazines may have helped, but even that is unclear.

The law was full of loopholes that allowed the legal purchase and ownership of many different types of weapons that would be considered "assault" weapons. If you owned the high capacity magazines and weapons before the law went into effect you were allowed to keep them.

With over 300 million guns owned by private citizens in the US (http://www.justfacts.com/guncontrol.asp) this is a bell that cannot be unrung. We'd do far better to focus our efforts as a country on mental health aspects of preventing this kind of tragedy IMHO.
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familyschoolcare 07:21 AM 12-18-2012
Originally Posted by Cat Herder:
Thanks Michael.



Which ones? From which countries?
Michael translated nicely.

I was referring to European American's the ones that came over on the may flower and other ships thinking they could claim a "new" land for themselves even though people where already living on the land that eventually became known as the United States of America.
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familyschoolcare 07:29 AM 12-18-2012
Originally Posted by Sugar Magnolia:
It was on Morning Joe on msnbc, Joe (a Republican) was citing the Justice Department and CDC I believe. The number did not include wars. It was total deaths by gunshots involving crime or suicide.

I don't think anyone is suggesting we eliminate the 2nd amendment. Is that what you mean by "taking away right to bare arms"? I am not suggesting repealing the 2nd amendment, merely keeping military killing equipment in the hands of the military. Pretty straight forward.

I am still waiting for someone to tell me, aside from the entertainment or recreation, what a private citizen needs a 100 round clip during 16 rounds per second for?

Again, the silence of the NRA speaks volumes.
Private citizens should have access to these weapons so that our leadership and those in power don't have more power than the people. Otherwise we might find we have a dictatorship on our hands. The 2nd amendment was written because of a need for private people to arm themselves against the government.
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mom2many 08:22 AM 12-18-2012
Unfortunately evil minded people have killed and will continue to do so with or without guns... In 1927, Andrew Kehoe killed 38 elementary school children with dynamite.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bath_School_disaster

Gun control is not the answer. Those that wish to do harm will find other ways to kill, if guns are not available. IMHO "gun control" will only keep guns from the law abiding citizens and not the criminals.
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Willow 08:41 AM 12-18-2012
Originally Posted by Scout:
What if Guns were banned completely by all except military and police? \
Ask Great Britain and Australia how those policies are working for them:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...89-decade.html

http://www.wnd.com/2001/03/8340/
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Unregistered 11:03 AM 12-18-2012
Originally Posted by Country Kids:
The news just said for my area that gun sales have sky rocketed since Friday. They have noticed that when there is a shooting this happens as people worry about guns being banned from sales.
Yes!! Yes! Yes!

My husband is in the gun industry and shootings always spike sales. Obamas first election win was the biggest boom in gun sales in a long time. And then again this last November when he was reelected. And you better believe there isnt ONE distributer who can send them ar15s right now. Everyone who can get their hands on them is buying them up. Listen, all the threats of them being banned just forces people to impulsievly buy them just so the govt cant take that right away.

How about someone post stories of people who used their legally registered guns to stop an attack from occurring? There was just one at a restaurant where a psycho employee was shot by an off duty officer I think. Needless to say, he didnt gt his chance to shoot up his workplace.
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MarinaVanessa 11:49 AM 12-18-2012
Originally Posted by Clueless:
Antidepressants and mental illness are more to blame than the guns. For teen and young adults antidepressants can cause them to become very angry and suicidal. This combonation is dangerous.
Yes some can benefit from antidepressants but others can flip out.
I bet it will come out that this young man was on and off of antidepressants just like the others were.

I know someone that has been on Paxil since age 7. Doctors should be so careful. These drugs are serious when it comes to young people.
Yes as it turns out the 20 year old shooter was diagnosed with aspergers, depression and ADHD. I believe there was something else as well. The brother was cuestiones and apparently has said that he had a long history of depression and mental health issues. The mom was a gun hoarder (believed in having a surplus of guns in case of a natural or national disaster). What I want to know is why did this person have access to these guns in the first place when his family knew he had mental health problems.

Originally Posted by Crystal:
"Lt. J. Paul Vance with the Connecticut State Police told reporters Sunday morning that investigators are scrutinizing the guns Lanza took to the school, including the semiautomatic military-style rifle the state's medical examiner said was used in the school killings."
This is true. He used a bushmaster AR-15 much like the one that I myself own. Heres the thing ... It is NOT a military or law enforcement rifle. It looks like one but is not powerful enough to be used as one. This gun was specifically made for civilians in mind that wanted the look of a military weapon. It is a semi automatic weapon because it can hold multiple rounds that can be fired quickly without having to manually load each bullet intom the chamber (unlike Lets say a hunting rifle) and has a magazine that can hold many rounds.

My .45 handguns work pretty much the same however except that Its MUCH faster for me to reload my handgun than my AR-15. In CA we have restrictions on the AR-15 such as limiting the number of rounds a magazine can take to only 10 (almost like a handgun) and not having an automatic release for the magazine making reloading much much longer. This I agree with. Why not put limiters and reduce the amount If time it takes to reload a weapon. It then makes it much like owning a handgun. I would also be ok with submitting myself to mantatory training or a test and even a psych evaluation before being able to purchase any firearm. Those are all reasonable suggestions to me, completely banning semi automatic weapons are not. I just cant justify taking them away from everyone because of a few bad apples with mental problems.

Btw we already had a semi automatic rifle ban that Bill Clinton signed back in like 1996 I think that was eventually removed because it did nothing to reduce assault rifle crimes. People still found a way to get their hands on them and since you cant go around collecting every semi automatic that everyone owned only ban the sales of new ones there were still many out there.

*I apologize for any grammar and spelling ... Im on my phone
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Crystal 02:03 PM 12-18-2012
wow.....looks like retailers and manufactuers are taking action....pulling guns from shelves and websites and "Cerberus Capital Management reported that it's selling off its entire investment in Bushmaster and returning any profit made to investors"

http://finance.yahoo.com/blogs/the-e...190318407.html
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Unregistered 03:30 PM 12-18-2012
Originally Posted by lil angels:
This exactly.... I think the teachers should be aloud to be trained and legal to carry at school or any other business for that matter if the ad people know somebody else will be there with a weapon then they would think twice about it. Or they would be stopped a lot faster!
Originally Posted by My3cents:
yikes this scares me---


Think about it more.....
Think about this....

I trust my fellow man/woman. When you drive to work or shop each day, a person is driving a car that passes by you, at 60mph just 4 feet away, going the opposite direction. The only thing separating you is an imaginary line. If you are also going 60mph, that is a total of 120mph. In essence it is like someone shooting a bullet past your head thousands of times a day.

If you can trust that, you can trust your fellow Americans to carry a concealed weapon.
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clep 04:04 PM 12-18-2012
Just imagine for a moment what it would be like if society was emotionally healthy. There would be no need for gun control.

If it isn't guns it will be something else. There are websites that teach people how to make bombs out of household items. Trying to control weapons will serve the same purpose as trying to control illegal drugs. It will provide society an illusion of safety. I believe that in a society of mentally ill people and those lacking personal skills we can try to bandage these social issues by banning guns or we can address the issues and create change at the root of the issue.

I see so many children in western society growing up with a sense of entitlement, throwing tantrums on a whim and demanding the world revolves around them. Parents with violent children is an epidemic. I believe if we want to bring about lasting and consistent change, we need to be looking at the bigger picture here.
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Unregistered 05:29 PM 12-18-2012
I would be concerned about teachers having guns on them in the classroom with 20+ students. Perhaps not so much with younger students, but how about with older students that were aware the teacher had a gun on them. How difficult would it be for an out of control student, or group of students to catch the teacher off gaurd and take the gun?
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MarinaVanessa 05:44 PM 12-18-2012
Originally Posted by clep:
Just imagine for a moment what it would be like if society was emotionally healthy. There would be no need for gun control.

If it isn't guns it will be something else. There are websites that teach people how to make bombs out of household items. Trying to control weapons will serve the same purpose as trying to control illegal drugs. It will provide society an illusion of safety. I believe that in a society of mentally ill people and those lacking personal skills we can try to bandage these social issues by banning guns or we can address the issues and create change at the root of the issue.

I see so many children in western society growing up with a sense of entitlement, throwing tantrums on a whim and demanding the world revolves around them. Parents with violent children is an epidemic. I believe if we want to bring about lasting and consistent change, we need to be looking at the bigger picture here.
Agree 100%
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Sprouts 06:49 PM 12-18-2012
THIS arugument or discusssion could go ON AND ON, but what it ALL really boils down to is that all of these mass murders are just a reflection of what our society has turned into...a GODLESS DEPRIVED NATION....

Please watch this video that Huckagee spoke on FOX news, he really couldn't have said it any better

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hpMcM1JJR1M

But unfortunatley not many people want to walk this fine and narrow path...
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Michael 07:53 PM 12-18-2012
Originally Posted by Sprouts:
THIS arugument or discusssion could go ON AND ON, but what it ALL really boils down to is that all of these mass murders are just a reflection of what our society has turned into...a GODLESS DEPRIVED NATION....

Please watch this video that Huckagee spoke on FOX news, he really couldn't have said it any better

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hpMcM1JJR1M

But unfortunatley not many people want to walk this fine and narrow path...

In life I find there are two things that define us; those things of desire and those of virtue. On our final day we will find that the things of desire cannot be taken with us. Our virtue is in asking; what have I done for this world? and finding peace in its answer.

Our nation was founded on values. How now will we prioritize our children's futures?
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Scout 04:09 AM 12-19-2012
Originally Posted by Willow:
Ask Great Britain and Australia how those policies are working for them:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...89-decade.html

http://www.wnd.com/2001/03/8340/
This Australia article is 11 years old. And as for Britian...

http://www.juancole.com/2012/07/58-m...775-in-us.html
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Scout 04:15 AM 12-19-2012
Originally Posted by Willow:
Ask Great Britain and Australia how those policies are working for them:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...89-decade.html

http://www.wnd.com/2001/03/8340/
Here is another interesting link. I am not trying to argue with anyone. It is my opinion that guns are too readily available in this country & this article shows you that our country is the worst as far as mass shootings! Definitely something we NEED to improve on ASAP. IMO, that starts with Gun Control.

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/worl...icle-1.1220608
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Scout 04:29 AM 12-19-2012
Originally Posted by Willow:
Ask Great Britain and Australia how those policies are working for them:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...89-decade.html

http://www.wnd.com/2001/03/8340/
This is the last one! This one speaks volumes, IMHO.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/news/datab...hip-world-list
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Blackcat31 08:46 AM 12-19-2012
Originally Posted by Scout:
This Australia article is 11 years old. And as for Britian...

http://www.juancole.com/2012/07/58-m...775-in-us.html
Originally Posted by Scout:
Here is another interesting link. I am not trying to argue with anyone. It is my opinion that guns are too readily available in this country & this article shows you that our country is the worst as far as mass shootings! Definitely something we NEED to improve on ASAP. IMO, that starts with Gun Control.

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/worl...icle-1.1220608
Originally Posted by Scout:
This is the last one! This one speaks volumes, IMHO.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/news/datab...hip-world-list
There is NO other country in the world that lives like people in the United States do so to compare any other country's gun laws and the number of fatalities due to guns is like comparing apples to oranges. IMHO, it is just NOT a valid argument.

Fwiw~ Since this whole tragedy has happened, twice as many children have lost their lives to abuse (many of them by their own parents).

Children die every day in rediculous acts of carelessness, violence and neglect. Sadly we don't give any of those deaths near the attention this situation has garnered and despite the atrocious manner in which this particular situation occured, the unnecessary death of any child deserves the same "fight"/attention.
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Scout 09:38 AM 12-19-2012
Originally Posted by Blackcat31:
There is NO other country in the world that lives like people in the United States do so to compare any other country's gun laws and the number of fatalities due to guns is like comparing apples to oranges. IMHO, it is just NOT a valid argument.

Fwiw~ Since this whole tragedy has happened, twice as many children have lost their lives to abuse (many of them by their own parents).

Children die every day in rediculous acts of carelessness, violence and neglect. Sadly we don't give any of those deaths near the attention this situation has garnered and despite the atrocious manner in which this particular situation occured, the unnecessary death of any child deserves the same "fight"/attention.
That is terrible! I can not imagine doing anything to hurt a child, especially my own, I do not read facts like this because for me, in that situation, ignorance is bliss! FWIW-I was just answering Willow's post about Britain & Australia. She was answering a rhetorical question I had posted, which made me curious as to what went on in other countries. I didn't even look into it until I saw hers, then I got curious.
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Crystal 09:40 AM 12-19-2012
Gun deaths set to outstrip car fatalities for first time in 2015

http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/lookout/...152632492.html
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Blackcat31 09:53 AM 12-19-2012
Interesting statistics about attacks in primary schools. Going back to 1764.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...rimary_schools

Not saying the current situation isn't the worst, it is by no means the first that happend in a primary or elementary school.

I think the media makes the stories much more available and accessible ot the public.

Here is the list for attacks at secondary schools. My community is on the list. October 5, 1966

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...ondary_schools
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Greenplasticwateringcans 10:02 AM 12-19-2012
Originally Posted by MarinaVanessa:
Yes as it turns out the 20 year old shooter was diagnosed with aspergers, depression and ADHD. I believe there was something else as well. The brother was cuestiones and apparently has said that he had a long history of depression and mental health issues. The mom was a gun hoarder (believed in having a surplus of guns in case of a natural or national disaster). What I want to know is why did this person have access to these guns in the first place when his family knew he had mental health problems.



This is true. He used a bushmaster AR-15 much like the one that I myself own. Heres the thing ... It is NOT a military or law enforcement rifle. It looks like one but is not powerful enough to be used as one. This gun was specifically made for civilians in mind that wanted the look of a military weapon. It is a semi automatic weapon because it can hold multiple rounds that can be fired quickly without having to manually load each bullet intom the chamber (unlike Lets say a hunting rifle) and has a magazine that can hold many rounds.

My .45 handguns work pretty much the same however except that Its MUCH faster for me to reload my handgun than my AR-15. In CA we have restrictions on the AR-15 such as limiting the number of rounds a magazine can take to only 10 (almost like a handgun) and not having an automatic release for the magazine making reloading much much longer. This I agree with. Why not put limiters and reduce the amount If time it takes to reload a weapon. It then makes it much like owning a handgun. I would also be ok with submitting myself to mantatory training or a test and even a psych evaluation before being able to purchase any firearm. Those are all reasonable suggestions to me, completely banning semi automatic weapons are not. I just cant justify taking them away from everyone because of a few bad apples with mental problems.

Btw we already had a semi automatic rifle ban that Bill Clinton signed back in like 1996 I think that was eventually removed because it did nothing to reduce assault rifle crimes. People still found a way to get their hands on them and since you cant go around collecting every semi automatic that everyone owned only ban the sales of new ones there were still many out there.

*I apologize for any grammar and spelling ... Im on my phone
Aspergers is not a mental illness.
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Country Kids 10:03 AM 12-19-2012
Originally Posted by Blackcat31:
Interesting statistics about attacks in primary schools. Going back to 1764.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...rimary_schools

Not saying the current situation isn't the worst, it is by no means the first that happend in a primary or elementary school.

I think the media makes the stories much more available and accessible ot the public.

Here is the list for attacks at secondary schools. My community is on the list. October 5, 1966

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...ondary_schools
Haven't had time to read each and everyone but all I have to say is "China better be getting rid of the knives over there." I'm wondering how they are able to kill/injure so many people with a knife! It seems people would be able to run or fight off an attacker (especially when there are so many in one spot). It seems maybe they would be able to get one or two but not in the 20's! Wow, thats alot of people.
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My3cents 10:04 AM 12-19-2012
Originally Posted by Greenplasticwateringcans:
Aspergers is not a mental illness.
Shooting your mother and 6 adults and 20 kids is!!!!!!

IS MENTAL ILLNESS
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