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Daycare Center and Family Home Forum>Nap Time 'Poopers'
Laurel 08:40 AM 08-08-2013
Originally Posted by Crystal:
Same here. I really don't WANT to wake a child, but I'd rather wake them than leave them in their own waste.
Good grief, I never thought it would ever be a debate about whether it is better to change a diaper of let them sleep.
And, I am wondering why no one has answered my earlier post asking how one would feel if it was their OWN CHILD left to lay in feces for two hours for the sake of good sleep.
I did the same with my children. An hour with a little poop doesn't hurt. My grandchildren either are or were in my daycare. I let them sleep if they poop after falling asleep too. I wasn't doing daycare when my own were in diapers. I was a stay at home mom. I did the same. It never even occurred to me to do otherwise really unless, as I said earlier, it was leaking or something. My own children are adults now and are not emotionally scared from this. Same here. I really don't WANT to wake a child, but I'd rather wake them than leave them in their own waste.
Good grief, I never thought it would ever be a debate about whether it is better to change a diaper of let them sleep.
And, I am wondering why no one has answered my earlier post asking how one would feel if it was their OWN CHILD left to lay in feces for two hours for the sake of good sleep.
Laurel
Blackcat31 08:41 AM 08-08-2013
Originally Posted by nannyde:
Oh State Regs...
Glad you brought them up...
Well let's see. How about
New York
417.11 (o) Infants must be kept clean and
comfortable at all times. Diapers must be
changed when wet or soiled.
417.8 (a)(1) The caregiver must
be awake at all times and physically
check sleeping children every 15 minutes
Maryland.
D. To assist in preventing the spread of disease, the provider shall:
(1) Promptly change a child's diaper, clothing, and bedding when soiled or wet;
(2) Follow diapering procedures designed to prevent the transmission of disease, which are established and supplied by the Office; and
(3) Maintain the surface used for diapering in a clean and sanitary manner.
Oklahma.
Center rules:
Section 25. Care of infants, toddlers, and two-year-olds
(6) Diapers are checked hourly and whenever the child indicates discomfort or
exhibits behavior that suggests a soiled or wet diaper.
(7) Diapers are changed promptly when wet or soiled.
family care rules
Section 93. Infants, toddlers, and two-year-olds
(d) Diaper-changing. Diapers are changed promptly when wet or soiled.
(1) A clean nonporous surface or pad is used for diaper changes and
sanitized after each use. Care is taken to prevent spread of germs
I honestly can't believe we are having to discuss this. It's a first for me and I've been on boards for 15 years.
Come on ladies... THINK
THINK about leaving any human being lying in poopy pants.
Beside my personal opinion, THAT ^^^^ is exactly what I was saying....state rules and regulations usually dictate to provider proper procedures for this kind of situation. Oh State Regs...
Glad you brought them up...
Well let's see. How about
New York
417.11 (o) Infants must be kept clean and
comfortable at all times. Diapers must be
changed when wet or soiled.
417.8 (a)(1) The caregiver must
be awake at all times and physically
check sleeping children every 15 minutes
Maryland.
D. To assist in preventing the spread of disease, the provider shall:
(1) Promptly change a child's diaper, clothing, and bedding when soiled or wet;
(2) Follow diapering procedures designed to prevent the transmission of disease, which are established and supplied by the Office; and
(3) Maintain the surface used for diapering in a clean and sanitary manner.
Oklahma.
Center rules:
Section 25. Care of infants, toddlers, and two-year-olds
(6) Diapers are checked hourly and whenever the child indicates discomfort or
exhibits behavior that suggests a soiled or wet diaper.
(7) Diapers are changed promptly when wet or soiled.
family care rules
Section 93. Infants, toddlers, and two-year-olds
(d) Diaper-changing. Diapers are changed promptly when wet or soiled.
(1) A clean nonporous surface or pad is used for diaper changes and
sanitized after each use. Care is taken to prevent spread of germs
I honestly can't believe we are having to discuss this. It's a first for me and I've been on boards for 15 years.
Come on ladies... THINK
THINK about leaving any human being lying in poopy pants.
Rules and regulations are always in the BEST interest of the child and NOT the provider and/or the parent.
So even if a parent "doesn't mind" their child finishing up nap time BEFORE getting a soiled diaper changed, it does NOT matter because you are governed by state rules/regs. that say you MUST immediately change soiled diapers.
nannyde 08:53 AM 08-08-2013
Originally Posted by Blackcat31:
Beside my personal opinion, THAT ^^^^ is exactly what I was saying....state rules and regulations usually dictate to provider proper procedures for this kind of situation.
Rules and regulations are always in the BEST interest of the child and NOT the provider and/or the parent.
So even if a parent "doesn't mind" their child finishing up nap time BEFORE getting a soiled diaper changed, it does NOT matter because you are governed by state rules/regs. that say you MUST immediately change soiled diapers.
I don't even want the parents opinion on this. Who cares what they think? It's not a parenting decision so I wouldn't even ask. Beside my personal opinion, THAT ^^^^ is exactly what I was saying....state rules and regulations usually dictate to provider proper procedures for this kind of situation.
Rules and regulations are always in the BEST interest of the child and NOT the provider and/or the parent.
So even if a parent "doesn't mind" their child finishing up nap time BEFORE getting a soiled diaper changed, it does NOT matter because you are governed by state rules/regs. that say you MUST immediately change soiled diapers.
The kid is in my care. I don't want them to be dirty. My house. My equipment. My air quality. My rules.
Any parent that would want me to leave a kid in poopy diapers would NOT be a good fit.
Cradle2crayons 08:59 AM 08-08-2013
Originally Posted by Crystal:
Same here. I really don't WANT to wake a child, but I'd rather wake them than leave them in their own waste.
Good grief, I never thought it would ever be a debate about whether it is better to change a diaper of let them sleep.
And, I am wondering why no one has answered my earlier post asking how one would feel if it was their OWN CHILD left to lay in feces for two hours for the sake of good sleep.
Ill answer this... As long as my child was out down for a nap dry, and wasn't prone to rash, I would NOT want my own child changed during nap time. Same here. I really don't WANT to wake a child, but I'd rather wake them than leave them in their own waste.
Good grief, I never thought it would ever be a debate about whether it is better to change a diaper of let them sleep.
And, I am wondering why no one has answered my earlier post asking how one would feel if it was their OWN CHILD left to lay in feces for two hours for the sake of good sleep.
I didn't wake my own children to change and I don't wake my daycare children to change them either, unless its my special dcg because she is prone to rash because she has frequent liquid tube fed poops.
Blackcat31 09:00 AM 08-08-2013
Originally Posted by nannyde:
I don't even want the parents opinion on this. Who cares what they think? It's not a parenting decision so I wouldn't even ask.
The kid is in my care. I don't want them to be dirty. My house. My equipment. My air quality. My rules.
Any parent that would want me to leave a kid in poopy diapers would NOT be a good fit.
I feel the same. I don't even want the parents opinion on this. Who cares what they think? It's not a parenting decision so I wouldn't even ask.
The kid is in my care. I don't want them to be dirty. My house. My equipment. My air quality. My rules.
Any parent that would want me to leave a kid in poopy diapers would NOT be a good fit.
I wouldn't even consider enrolling a family that didn't care as I personally DO care and wouldn't leave my own (or daycare kids) in poo. ever.
The ONLY exception is if they poo'ed and I was NOT aware of it.... but in most facilities (family care or centers) you are required to physically check on the child every 15-20 minutes, so there is no way you wouldn't be aware of it.
Familycare71 09:05 AM 08-08-2013
Now I see... I'm a horrible provider- I'm a horrible mom... 
My children have pathogens they otherwise wouldn't normally have-
I shall wake children for poop- I shall wake children for poop- I shall wake children for poop!
My home isn't large enough to provide quality care.
I am breaking my state licensing rules.
Anything I missed?
My children have pathogens they otherwise wouldn't normally have-
I shall wake children for poop- I shall wake children for poop- I shall wake children for poop!
My home isn't large enough to provide quality care.
I am breaking my state licensing rules.
Anything I missed?
CedarCreek 09:08 AM 08-08-2013
Originally Posted by Blackcat31:
I feel the same.
I wouldn't even consider enrolling a family that didn't care as I personally DO care and wouldn't leave my own (or daycare kids) in poo. ever.
The ONLY exception is if they poo'ed and I was NOT aware of it.... but in most facilities (family care or centers) you are required to physically check on the child every 15-20 minutes, so there is no way you wouldn't be aware of it.
I check them every 15 minutes during nap but on the seldom occasion I have had a nap pooper, I still didn't know. Maybe that kid wasn't a stinky pooper. If I smelled it I would change it. The most I do when I check on them though is watch chests rise and fall.I feel the same.
I wouldn't even consider enrolling a family that didn't care as I personally DO care and wouldn't leave my own (or daycare kids) in poo. ever.
The ONLY exception is if they poo'ed and I was NOT aware of it.... but in most facilities (family care or centers) you are required to physically check on the child every 15-20 minutes, so there is no way you wouldn't be aware of it.
Cradle2crayons 09:12 AM 08-08-2013
Originally Posted by Familycare71:
Now I see... I'm a horrible provider- I'm a horrible mom...
My children have pathogens they otherwise wouldn't normally have-
I shall wake children for poop- I shall wake children for poop- I shall wake children for poop!
My home isn't large enough to provide quality care.
I am breaking my state licensing rules.
Anything I missed?
Now I see... I'm a horrible provider- I'm a horrible mom...
My children have pathogens they otherwise wouldn't normally have-
I shall wake children for poop- I shall wake children for poop- I shall wake children for poop!
My home isn't large enough to provide quality care.
I am breaking my state licensing rules.
Anything I missed?
I think you covered it!!
Blackcat31 09:13 AM 08-08-2013
Originally Posted by CedarCreek:
I check them every 15 minutes during nap but on the seldom occasion I have had a nap pooper, I still didn't know. Maybe that kid wasn't a stinky pooper. If I smelled it I would change it. The most I do when I check on them though is watch chests rise and fall.
LOL!! I've had those too! I check them every 15 minutes during nap but on the seldom occasion I have had a nap pooper, I still didn't know. Maybe that kid wasn't a stinky pooper. If I smelled it I would change it. The most I do when I check on them though is watch chests rise and fall.
I've also had the ones who poop and the neighbors know!
I also check and see for the rising/falling chest. My one little one gets little nudge and when they move, I know they are good. Sometimes the rising/falling chest thing is hard to see, especially in the teeny tiny ones.
MsLaura529 09:14 AM 08-08-2013
Originally Posted by Familycare71:
Now I see... I'm a horrible provider- I'm a horrible mom...
My children have pathogens they otherwise wouldn't normally have-
I shall wake children for poop- I shall wake children for poop- I shall wake children for poop!
My home isn't large enough to provide quality care.
I am breaking my state licensing rules.
Anything I missed?
ditto ...Now I see... I'm a horrible provider- I'm a horrible mom...
My children have pathogens they otherwise wouldn't normally have-
I shall wake children for poop- I shall wake children for poop- I shall wake children for poop!
My home isn't large enough to provide quality care.
I am breaking my state licensing rules.
Anything I missed?
I don't like getting in on these debates because they can be silly, but I just didn't want you to feel that you were the only horrible mom/provider out there.
Laurel 09:15 AM 08-08-2013
Originally Posted by CedarCreek:
Fun thread.
Depends for me. If I know one of them had pooped,I change them. If I don't know until after nap, they don't get changed until after nap. I don't check diapers all through nap time.
I've actually very seldom had this issue anyway.
I never have the issue much either. If I have just put them down and they are still awake then I'll change it but I won't wake them to do it.Fun thread.
Depends for me. If I know one of them had pooped,I change them. If I don't know until after nap, they don't get changed until after nap. I don't check diapers all through nap time.
I've actually very seldom had this issue anyway.
Laurel
Brooksie 09:15 AM 08-08-2013
Originally Posted by CedarCreek:
I check them every 15 minutes during nap but on the seldom occasion I have had a nap pooper, I still didn't know. Maybe that kid wasn't a stinky pooper. If I smelled it I would change it. The most I do when I check on them though is watch chests rise and fall.
This is what I do too. Stand over them a minute, count their breaths and move on. Every 15 minutes. Sometimes a poopy diaper isn't always apparent.I check them every 15 minutes during nap but on the seldom occasion I have had a nap pooper, I still didn't know. Maybe that kid wasn't a stinky pooper. If I smelled it I would change it. The most I do when I check on them though is watch chests rise and fall.
CedarCreek 09:18 AM 08-08-2013
Originally Posted by Blackcat31:
LOL!! I've had those too!
I've also had the ones who poop and the neighbors know!
I also check and see for the rising/falling chest. My one little one gets little nudge and when they move, I know they are good. Sometimes the rising/falling chest thing is hard to see, especially in the teeny tiny ones.
I have one kiddo that makes me want to vacate the premises when he poops! Its horrid!LOL!! I've had those too!
I've also had the ones who poop and the neighbors know!
I also check and see for the rising/falling chest. My one little one gets little nudge and when they move, I know they are good. Sometimes the rising/falling chest thing is hard to see, especially in the teeny tiny ones.
Oh yes, the teeny ones get poked during nap time and I check for a response. Actually,I check their diapers too when I do that, since they sleep so much.
Familycare71 09:19 AM 08-08-2013
Originally Posted by MsLaura529:
ditto ...
I don't like getting in on these debates because they can be silly, but I just didn't want you to feel that you were the only horrible mom/provider out there.
I appreciate it!!!ditto ...
I don't like getting in on these debates because they can be silly, but I just didn't want you to feel that you were the only horrible mom/provider out there.
I have learned a lesson! I am disappointed because I haven't seen this on here before... But- nothing's perfect
Unregistered 09:19 AM 08-08-2013
Please remember every state is different. What is required for your state may not necessarily be for all states.
My state:
We do not have to check on the children every so often. We must be within sight OR sound at all times. Once kiddos are sleeping I can easily leave the room for the two hours as long as I can still hear them.
Nothing about changing diapers what so ever. We just have: Infants must not sleep on their back, Infants must not have bottles propped into their mouths while sleeping. That pretty much covers the infant department. Maybe a few other rules but really nothing much.
So please remember when you are quoting things, they aren't always for everyone else's states or country.
My state:
We do not have to check on the children every so often. We must be within sight OR sound at all times. Once kiddos are sleeping I can easily leave the room for the two hours as long as I can still hear them.
Nothing about changing diapers what so ever. We just have: Infants must not sleep on their back, Infants must not have bottles propped into their mouths while sleeping. That pretty much covers the infant department. Maybe a few other rules but really nothing much.
So please remember when you are quoting things, they aren't always for everyone else's states or country.
Familycare71 09:19 AM 08-08-2013
Originally Posted by Cradle2crayons:
I think you covered it!!
I got it!!! I think you covered it!!
And thanks for the
I needed them 
Brooksie 09:19 AM 08-08-2013
Originally Posted by Familycare71:
Now I see... I'm a horrible provider- I'm a horrible mom...
My children have pathogens they otherwise wouldn't normally have-
I shall wake children for poop- I shall wake children for poop- I shall wake children for poop!
My home isn't large enough to provide quality care.
I am breaking my state licensing rules.
Anything I missed?
Right?! I regret starting this thread. I think its gone way past helpful curiosity and moved right into offensive and accusatory. I do change poopy diapers if I notice them but I'm still totally offended on how people have gone about posting responses. FC you're NOT horrible. And you DO have a right to be a child care provider.Now I see... I'm a horrible provider- I'm a horrible mom...
My children have pathogens they otherwise wouldn't normally have-
I shall wake children for poop- I shall wake children for poop- I shall wake children for poop!
My home isn't large enough to provide quality care.
I am breaking my state licensing rules.
Anything I missed?
CedarCreek 09:24 AM 08-08-2013
Fc, this site is very useful and can be a great place to vent or find encouragement.
Its also a place where debates sometimes happen. On this issue,I wouldn't let others opinions hurt your feelings or make you question your quality of care.
Its just poop. (pun intended)
And i'm sure you're a great provider.
Its also a place where debates sometimes happen. On this issue,I wouldn't let others opinions hurt your feelings or make you question your quality of care.
Its just poop. (pun intended)
And i'm sure you're a great provider.
Blackcat31 09:25 AM 08-08-2013
Originally Posted by MsLaura529:
ditto ...
I don't like getting in on these debates because they can be silly, but I just didn't want you to feel that you were the only horrible mom/provider out there.
I don't think anyone is saying that any one else is a horrible provider. ditto ...
I don't like getting in on these debates because they can be silly, but I just didn't want you to feel that you were the only horrible mom/provider out there.
I think what others are trying to say is a child has a right to be clean. If we are aware of a soiled diaper it should be changed.
A child's right to a clean unsoiled diaper is more important that a child's need for sleep. If they are sooooooo tired and cranky due to being woke up for that diaper change, then they should easily fall back asleep since their crankiness demonstrates that bodily need for sleep.
If they don't fall back asleep, then their body obviously didn't require further sleep.
We all know that 99.9% of parents prefer their child skip naps anyways so anyone using the argument that the child NEEDS their sleep also knows the child will more than likely make up for that lack of sleep by going to bed earlier when they get home.
To me this debate isn't about what each provider thinks but what is really more important: rest or cleanliness?
A soiled diaper is something that needs to be addressed immediately. The needs of children should be taken care of in an order of importance based on what can and can't wait. IMPO, cleanliness can't wait.
I also think that there really shouldn't even be a debate about this as a majority of us have state rules/regs that govern our actions and changing a soiled diaper is something that is clearly outlined in most of those regs.
mom2many 09:28 AM 08-08-2013
Originally Posted by Brooksie:
Right?! I regret starting this thread. I think its gone way past helpful curiosity and moved right into offensive and accusatory. I do change poopy diapers if I notice them but I'm still totally offended on how people have gone about posting responses. FC you're NOT horrible. And you DO have a right to be a child care provider.
Right?! I regret starting this thread. I think its gone way past helpful curiosity and moved right into offensive and accusatory. I do change poopy diapers if I notice them but I'm still totally offended on how people have gone about posting responses. FC you're NOT horrible. And you DO have a right to be a child care provider.
I completely agree with this 100%!
Brooksie 09:29 AM 08-08-2013
Originally Posted by Blackcat31:
I don't think anyone is saying that any one else is a horrible provider.
I think what others are trying to say is a child has a right to be clean. If we are aware of a soiled diaper it should be changed.
A child's right to a clean unsoiled diaper is more important that a child's need for sleep. If they are sooooooo tired and cranky due to being woke up for that diaper change, then they should easily fall back asleep since their crankiness demonstrates that bodily need for sleep.
If they don't fall back asleep, then their body obviously didn't require further sleep.
We all know that 99.9% of parents prefer their child skip naps anyways so anyone using the argument that the child NEEDS their sleep also knows the child will more than likely make up for that lack of sleep by going to bed earlier when they get home.
To me this debate isn't about what each provider thinks but what is really more important: rest or cleanliness?
A soiled diaper is something that needs to be addressed immediately. The needs of children should be taken care of in an order of importance based on what can and can't wait. IMPO, cleanliness can't wait.
I also think that there really shouldn't even be a debate about this as a majority of us have state rules/regs that govern our actions and changing a soiled diaper is something that is clearly outlined in most of those regs.
YOU may not BC, but others definitely took that stand point, with multiple offensive comments. I don't think anyone is saying that any one else is a horrible provider.
I think what others are trying to say is a child has a right to be clean. If we are aware of a soiled diaper it should be changed.
A child's right to a clean unsoiled diaper is more important that a child's need for sleep. If they are sooooooo tired and cranky due to being woke up for that diaper change, then they should easily fall back asleep since their crankiness demonstrates that bodily need for sleep.
If they don't fall back asleep, then their body obviously didn't require further sleep.
We all know that 99.9% of parents prefer their child skip naps anyways so anyone using the argument that the child NEEDS their sleep also knows the child will more than likely make up for that lack of sleep by going to bed earlier when they get home.
To me this debate isn't about what each provider thinks but what is really more important: rest or cleanliness?
A soiled diaper is something that needs to be addressed immediately. The needs of children should be taken care of in an order of importance based on what can and can't wait. IMPO, cleanliness can't wait.
I also think that there really shouldn't even be a debate about this as a majority of us have state rules/regs that govern our actions and changing a soiled diaper is something that is clearly outlined in most of those regs.
And honestly I don't have any parents who wants their child to skip nap. None. Haven't ever had one of those. Every one wants their child well rested.. but maybe I just happened to get all the good caring parents. ( Just a side note. )
laundrymom 09:32 AM 08-08-2013
I sleep them all in one room, and change when poopy. They learn how to fall asleep in the same room since newborn so no issue really. If someone did start older, they would adjust eventually. Just keep the routine the same. I would never knowingly leave a kid in a poopy. Asleep, awake, on a walk, or at the park. Every child gets changed immediatly.
nannyde 09:33 AM 08-08-2013
Originally Posted by Familycare71:
Now I see... I'm a horrible provider- I'm a horrible mom...
My children have pathogens they otherwise wouldn't normally have-
I shall wake children for poop- I shall wake children for poop- I shall wake children for poop!
My home isn't large enough to provide quality care.
I am breaking my state licensing rules.
Anything I missed?
If you are not changing the diaper when the child is soiled you are breaking your state regs.Now I see... I'm a horrible provider- I'm a horrible mom...
My children have pathogens they otherwise wouldn't normally have-
I shall wake children for poop- I shall wake children for poop- I shall wake children for poop!
My home isn't large enough to provide quality care.
I am breaking my state licensing rules.
Anything I missed?
Willow 09:33 AM 08-08-2013
If a kiddo gets on a schedule where they're pooping at nap I simply tweak breakfast....add in some steel cut oats, flax seed, pear juice or whatever and the problem resolves itself well before lunch time.
Seems like a no brainer to just eliminate the situation entirely to me and that's not a real difficult thing to do for the vast majority of kids.
Seems like a no brainer to just eliminate the situation entirely to me and that's not a real difficult thing to do for the vast majority of kids.
Blackcat31 09:35 AM 08-08-2013
Originally Posted by Unregistered:
Please remember every state is different. What is required for your state may not necessarily be for all states.
My state:
We do not have to check on the children every so often. We must be within sight OR sound at all times. Once kiddos are sleeping I can easily leave the room for the two hours as long as I can still hear them.
Nothing about changing diapers what so ever. We just have: Infants must
not sleep on their back, Infants must not have bottles propped into their mouths while sleeping. That pretty much covers the infant department. Maybe a few other rules but really nothing much.
So please remember when you are quoting things, they aren't always for everyone else's states or country.
Some states may not dictate exact directions but almost ALL of the regulations I have ever read have some sort of state such as this:Please remember every state is different. What is required for your state may not necessarily be for all states.
My state:
We do not have to check on the children every so often. We must be within sight OR sound at all times. Once kiddos are sleeping I can easily leave the room for the two hours as long as I can still hear them.
Nothing about changing diapers what so ever. We just have: Infants must
not sleep on their back, Infants must not have bottles propped into their mouths while sleeping. That pretty much covers the infant department. Maybe a few other rules but really nothing much.
So please remember when you are quoting things, they aren't always for everyone else's states or country.
(h) Immediate attention shall be given to the emotional and physical needs of the children
THAT is what I am referring to.
I ask EVERY single provider here to read their regulations today and see if they can find their state rules regarding this issue.
Familycare71 09:39 AM 08-08-2013
Originally Posted by Brooksie:
Right?! I regret starting this thread. I think its gone way past helpful curiosity and moved right into offensive and accusatory. I do change poopy diapers if I notice them but I'm still totally offended on how people have gone about posting responses. FC you're NOT horrible. And you DO have a right to be a child care provider.
Thank you- Right?! I regret starting this thread. I think its gone way past helpful curiosity and moved right into offensive and accusatory. I do change poopy diapers if I notice them but I'm still totally offended on how people have gone about posting responses. FC you're NOT horrible. And you DO have a right to be a child care provider.
I appreciate it!!! Just crazy how big it got! Ah well- moving on...
Laurel 09:40 AM 08-08-2013
Originally Posted by Familycare71:
Now I see... I'm a horrible provider- I'm a horrible mom...
My children have pathogens they otherwise wouldn't normally have-
I shall wake children for poop- I shall wake children for poop- I shall wake children for poop!
My home isn't large enough to provide quality care.
I am breaking my state licensing rules.
Anything I missed?
Yes, you missed liar in post #86. Now I see... I'm a horrible provider- I'm a horrible mom...
My children have pathogens they otherwise wouldn't normally have-
I shall wake children for poop- I shall wake children for poop- I shall wake children for poop!
My home isn't large enough to provide quality care.
I am breaking my state licensing rules.
Anything I missed?
Last sentence of that post.Laurel
Familycare71 09:42 AM 08-08-2013
Originally Posted by CedarCreek:
Fc, this site is very useful and can be a great place to vent or find encouragement.
Its also a place where debates sometimes happen. On this issue,I wouldn't let others opinions hurt your feelings or make you question your quality of care.
Its just poop. (pun intended)
And i'm sure you're a great provider.
Fc, this site is very useful and can be a great place to vent or find encouragement.
Its also a place where debates sometimes happen. On this issue,I wouldn't let others opinions hurt your feelings or make you question your quality of care.
Its just poop. (pun intended)
And i'm sure you're a great provider.
yes- this is def a poopy conversation!! I don't take it personally because they don't know me... I am fairly new and learning
Familycare71 09:43 AM 08-08-2013
Originally Posted by Laurel:
Yes, you missed liar in post #86. Last sentence of that post.
Laurel
I knew there must be something!!!Yes, you missed liar in post #86.
Last sentence of that post.Laurel
I'm sure you noticed I'm very slow to catch on!!
Familycare71 09:45 AM 08-08-2013
Originally Posted by nannyde:
If you are not changing the diaper when the child is soiled you are breaking your state regs.
Yup- covered that already...If you are not changing the diaper when the child is soiled you are breaking your state regs.
Brooksie 09:49 AM 08-08-2013
Originally Posted by Familycare71:
yes- this is def a poopy conversation!!
I don't take it personally because they don't know me... I am fairly new and learning
I guess in their old and "experienced" ways they can forget to show a little compassion in educating. Every one gets started some where, but I guarantee that you'd learn a lot more and be able to grow as a provider a lot easier if you weren't attacked and berated for your honest post. Its responses on issues like this where people are going to stop voicing their opinions or reaching out for helpful advice and guidance (which is why this forum is here, is it not?) for the sheer fact that they don't want to be torn apart when they are looking for support. yes- this is def a poopy conversation!! I don't take it personally because they don't know me... I am fairly new and learning
Crystal 09:53 AM 08-08-2013
How about leaving the drama out of this? No one ever called anyone a bad provider. No one ever said anyone here was a bad Mom. That may be your perception, but no one ever said any of that. If that is your perception, you may be experiencing a guilty consious and perhaps you oughtta listen to it and change your practices.
But, Nan did quote your state regs and you are not following them, as you have seen. So, as I said before, as a parent, if my child were knowingly left in a poopy diaper for the sake of sleep, I would pull my child and report it to licensing.
But, Nan did quote your state regs and you are not following them, as you have seen. So, as I said before, as a parent, if my child were knowingly left in a poopy diaper for the sake of sleep, I would pull my child and report it to licensing.
Crystal 09:56 AM 08-08-2013
Originally Posted by Brooksie:
I guess in their old and "experienced" ways they can forget to show a little compassion in educating. Every one gets started some where, but I guarantee that you'd learn a lot more and be able to grow as a provider a lot easier if you weren't attacked and berated for your honest post. Its responses on issues like this where people are going to stop voicing their opinions or reaching out for helpful advice and guidance (which is why this forum is here, is it not?) for the sheer fact that they don't want to be torn apart when they are looking for support.
Brooksie....no one ever said anything you did was wrong. You DID change the child's diaper. Your OP was clearly a vent and simply sharing your frustration. I get that, really I do. My response (originally) was in reference to those who said they DO NOT change poopy diapers during nap. I guess in their old and "experienced" ways they can forget to show a little compassion in educating. Every one gets started some where, but I guarantee that you'd learn a lot more and be able to grow as a provider a lot easier if you weren't attacked and berated for your honest post. Its responses on issues like this where people are going to stop voicing their opinions or reaching out for helpful advice and guidance (which is why this forum is here, is it not?) for the sheer fact that they don't want to be torn apart when they are looking for support.
And, from what I understand, Familycare71 has been doing this for years, she's not a newbie, she should know better.
Brooksie 09:57 AM 08-08-2013
Originally Posted by Crystal:
How about leaving the drama out of this? No one ever called anyone a bad provider. No one ever said anyone here was a bad Mom. That may be your perception, but no one ever said any of that. If that is your perception, you may be experiencing a guilty consious and perhaps you oughtta listen to it and change your practices.
But, Nan did quote your state regs and you are not following them, as you have seen. So, as I said before, as a parent, if my child were knowingly left in a poopy diaper for the sake of sleep, I would pull my child and report it to licensing.
Way to leave the drama out of it Crystal How about leaving the drama out of this? No one ever called anyone a bad provider. No one ever said anyone here was a bad Mom. That may be your perception, but no one ever said any of that. If that is your perception, you may be experiencing a guilty consious and perhaps you oughtta listen to it and change your practices.
But, Nan did quote your state regs and you are not following them, as you have seen. So, as I said before, as a parent, if my child were knowingly left in a poopy diaper for the sake of sleep, I would pull my child and report it to licensing.
Familycare71 10:00 AM 08-08-2013
Originally Posted by Blackcat31:
I don't think anyone is saying that any one else is a horrible provider.
I think what others are trying to say is a child has a right to be clean. If we are aware of a soiled diaper it should be changed.
A child's right to a clean unsoiled diaper is more important that a child's need for sleep. If they are sooooooo tired and cranky due to being woke up for that diaper change, then they should easily fall back asleep since their crankiness demonstrates that bodily need for sleep.
If they don't fall back asleep, then their body obviously didn't require further sleep.
We all know that 99.9% of parents prefer their child skip naps anyways so anyone using the argument that the child NEEDS their sleep also knows the child will more than likely make up for that lack of sleep by going to bed earlier when they get home.
To me this debate isn't about what each provider thinks but what is really more important: rest or cleanliness?
A soiled diaper is something that needs to be addressed immediately. The needs of children should be taken care of in an order of importance based on what can and can't wait. IMPO, cleanliness can't wait.
I also think that there really shouldn't even be a debate about this as a majority of us have state rules/regs that govern our actions and changing a soiled diaper is something that is clearly outlined in most of those regs.
It was stated numerous times actually-I don't think anyone is saying that any one else is a horrible provider.
I think what others are trying to say is a child has a right to be clean. If we are aware of a soiled diaper it should be changed.
A child's right to a clean unsoiled diaper is more important that a child's need for sleep. If they are sooooooo tired and cranky due to being woke up for that diaper change, then they should easily fall back asleep since their crankiness demonstrates that bodily need for sleep.
If they don't fall back asleep, then their body obviously didn't require further sleep.
We all know that 99.9% of parents prefer their child skip naps anyways so anyone using the argument that the child NEEDS their sleep also knows the child will more than likely make up for that lack of sleep by going to bed earlier when they get home.
To me this debate isn't about what each provider thinks but what is really more important: rest or cleanliness?
A soiled diaper is something that needs to be addressed immediately. The needs of children should be taken care of in an order of importance based on what can and can't wait. IMPO, cleanliness can't wait.
I also think that there really shouldn't even be a debate about this as a majority of us have state rules/regs that govern our actions and changing a soiled diaper is something that is clearly outlined in most of those regs.
I appreciate that you kept your posts mature and to the point...
I can hear other view points that's why I'm on here-
I am open to learning...
I will not seriously engage another individual who makes accusations, and tell me I am not fit to give care- among other things- see my prior post.
IMHO it wasn't needed.
Unregistered 10:02 AM 08-08-2013
Originally Posted by Crystal:
How about leaving the drama out of this? No one ever called anyone a bad provider. No one ever said anyone here was a bad Mom. That may be your perception, but no one ever said any of that. If that is your perception, you may be experiencing a guilty consious and perhaps you oughtta listen to it and change your practices.
But, Nan did quote your state regs and you are not following them, as you have seen. So, as I said before, as a parent, if my child were knowingly left in a poopy diaper for the sake of sleep, I would pull my child and report it to licensing.
Yes, she did quote the state regs but maybe not necessarily for the type of childcare she does.How about leaving the drama out of this? No one ever called anyone a bad provider. No one ever said anyone here was a bad Mom. That may be your perception, but no one ever said any of that. If that is your perception, you may be experiencing a guilty consious and perhaps you oughtta listen to it and change your practices.
But, Nan did quote your state regs and you are not following them, as you have seen. So, as I said before, as a parent, if my child were knowingly left in a poopy diaper for the sake of sleep, I would pull my child and report it to licensing.
We have 4 or 5 sets of rules for childcare here. It depends on what type of childcare you provide to what set of rules apply to your childcare. All the rules are are different to for the types of childcare.
Brooksie 10:03 AM 08-08-2013
Originally Posted by Crystal:
Brooksie....no one ever said anything you did was wrong. You DID change the child's diaper. Your OP was clearly a vent and simply sharing your frustration. I get that, really I do. My response (originally) was in reference to those who said they DO NOT change poopy diapers during nap.
And, from what I understand, Familycare71 has been doing this for years, she's not a newbie, she should know better.
Just because I'm not one to leave the child in a diaper I still took offense to the way it was approached towards the ones who honestly shared their practices. Whether we agree or not this forum is about education and support. And many of the responses were handled much more accusatory and offensive then as a way to guide or educate.Brooksie....no one ever said anything you did was wrong. You DID change the child's diaper. Your OP was clearly a vent and simply sharing your frustration. I get that, really I do. My response (originally) was in reference to those who said they DO NOT change poopy diapers during nap.
And, from what I understand, Familycare71 has been doing this for years, she's not a newbie, she should know better.
Familycare71 10:04 AM 08-08-2013
Originally Posted by Brooksie:
I guess in their old and "experienced" ways they can forget to show a little compassion in educating. Every one gets started some where, but I guarantee that you'd learn a lot more and be able to grow as a provider a lot easier if you weren't attacked and berated for your honest post. Its responses on issues like this where people are going to stop voicing their opinions or reaching out for helpful advice and guidance (which is why this forum is here, is it not?) for the sheer fact that they don't want to be torn apart when they are looking for support.
Exactly!!!! I guess in their old and "experienced" ways they can forget to show a little compassion in educating. Every one gets started some where, but I guarantee that you'd learn a lot more and be able to grow as a provider a lot easier if you weren't attacked and berated for your honest post. Its responses on issues like this where people are going to stop voicing their opinions or reaching out for helpful advice and guidance (which is why this forum is here, is it not?) for the sheer fact that they don't want to be torn apart when they are looking for support.
. That is why I am on here!! That is why I look everyday- because I have learned and some things I have changed- I'm half expecting to get a visit by my Licenser over all this! Which does make me question why I would ever put anything I do out there again!
Brooksie 10:07 AM 08-08-2013
Originally Posted by Familycare71:
Exactly!!!!. That is why I am on here!! That is why I look everyday- because I have learned and some things I have changed-
I'm half expecting to get a visit by my Licenser over all this! Which does make me question why I would ever put anything I do out there again!
Same here! And I changed the diaper!!Exactly!!!!
. That is why I am on here!! That is why I look everyday- because I have learned and some things I have changed- I'm half expecting to get a visit by my Licenser over all this! Which does make me question why I would ever put anything I do out there again!
nannyde 10:09 AM 08-08-2013
Originally Posted by Brooksie:
I guess in their old and "experienced" ways they can forget to show a little compassion in educating. Every one gets started some where, but I guarantee that you'd learn a lot more and be able to grow as a provider a lot easier if you weren't attacked and berated for your honest post. Its responses on issues like this where people are going to stop voicing their opinions or reaching out for helpful advice and guidance (which is why this forum is here, is it not?) for the sheer fact that they don't want to be torn apart when they are looking for support.
I tried that. I tried just saying my opinion first on what I would do. How many ways are we to say it's WRONG and NEGLECTFUL to leave any human or animal sitting or laying or walking in waste? I guess in their old and "experienced" ways they can forget to show a little compassion in educating. Every one gets started some where, but I guarantee that you'd learn a lot more and be able to grow as a provider a lot easier if you weren't attacked and berated for your honest post. Its responses on issues like this where people are going to stop voicing their opinions or reaching out for helpful advice and guidance (which is why this forum is here, is it not?) for the sheer fact that they don't want to be torn apart when they are looking for support.
Some of you guys will only accept that there ARE circumstances which make it ok. I'm saying that barring a life threatening situation like a fire there is NO good reason.
Period
I'm not obligated to come up with words that hedge that or minimize that to make a reader or poster on here feel better about doing the wrong thing. I don't need to consider someone's opinion that it is for the greater good.
What I do feel obligated to say is that this issue comes down to BASIC health and safety AND space. Learn BASIC health and safety and reevaluate your space with the kids you take in. If you don't know better then learn. If you have too many souls on board to easily provide basic safety and health then do the right thing and decrease your numbers so the ones you keep have enough space to be plucked out of bed mid nap, changed, and returned to bed without disturbing the others who can't get themselves to sleep once awakened.
Blackcat31 10:11 AM 08-08-2013
Originally Posted by Familycare71:
I'm half expecting to get a visit by my Licenser over all this! Which does make me question why I would ever put anything I do out there again!
Again, I am going to go back to the regulations..... if your licensor does visit, you should have NO issues with her visit if you are following the regulations of your state. I'm half expecting to get a visit by my Licenser over all this! Which does make me question why I would ever put anything I do out there again!
I am in Minnesota. My regulations state that I am required to address the physical needs of ALL children immediately upon awareness.
My personal opinion have NO bearing on this subject.
I don't care what anyone else thinks, about me, my program, my practices or my opinion.
I only care that I am following state regulations as I am required to do. The rest is just fluff.
Familycare71 10:13 AM 08-08-2013
I'm definitely understanding the reason why people come on as unregistered!
And yes Chrystal- I have been doing this for years - 14- I am NEW to this forum. I would say your no spring chick yourself and you should know better than to treat people like poop to make a point!
I was honest- I have never changed sleeping children. Instead of saying - hey what are your regs have you thought about this... Etc... You (and nan) made it personal, rude and dramatic! There was no call for that- quite simply it isn't nice.
And I find it interesting how on this thread your fine with venting but on another recent thread you went off a out someone doing just that.
I'm going to guess you perhaps are an angry person and for that I feel sad.
I will look through the valid info in this thread- and make a decision about what I want to do in the future- but you will have had no part in it and I certainly won't share what conclusion I come to!
And yes Chrystal- I have been doing this for years - 14- I am NEW to this forum. I would say your no spring chick yourself and you should know better than to treat people like poop to make a point!
I was honest- I have never changed sleeping children. Instead of saying - hey what are your regs have you thought about this... Etc... You (and nan) made it personal, rude and dramatic! There was no call for that- quite simply it isn't nice.
And I find it interesting how on this thread your fine with venting but on another recent thread you went off a out someone doing just that.
I'm going to guess you perhaps are an angry person and for that I feel sad.
I will look through the valid info in this thread- and make a decision about what I want to do in the future- but you will have had no part in it and I certainly won't share what conclusion I come to!
Familycare71 10:17 AM 08-08-2013
Originally Posted by Blackcat31:
Again, I am going to go back to the regulations..... if your licensor does visit, you should have NO issues with her visit if you are following the regulations of your state.
I am in Minnesota. My regulations state that I am required to address the physical needs of ALL children immediately upon awareness.
My personal opinion have NO bearing on this subject.
I don't care what anyone else thinks, about me, my program, my practices or my opinion.
I only care that I am following state regulations as I am required to do. The rest is just fluff.
I don't have a problem with it- it is just utterly ridiculous that this forum would be the cause! A place that is touted as a SUPPORT for daycare providers! And I don't have an issue with people disagreeing or saying why- but my goodness- Again, I am going to go back to the regulations..... if your licensor does visit, you should have NO issues with her visit if you are following the regulations of your state.
I am in Minnesota. My regulations state that I am required to address the physical needs of ALL children immediately upon awareness.
My personal opinion have NO bearing on this subject.
I don't care what anyone else thinks, about me, my program, my practices or my opinion.
I only care that I am following state regulations as I am required to do. The rest is just fluff.
Maybe it is easier to just walk away. Because this is ridiculous !!
daycarediva 10:19 AM 08-08-2013
Originally Posted by Blackcat31:
I'm NOT getting into the debate about whether to wake a sleeping child if they soil their diapers....as my opinion has no bearing on what each providers state rules and/or regs say but I 100% disagree with the above statement.
Your CNA friend might work in a highly recommended facility but any facility that believes that leaving a human being in soiled diapers is okay, is NOT a facility I would ever place my loved ones in.
My daughter is a RN specializing in geriatric care and is also pursing her nursing home director's credentials and one of the very first things they are taught is a human beings right to be clean.
ALL soiled diapers are changed IMMEDIATELY regardless of what activity or non-activity (sleeping) the patient is doing.
They would NEVER leave them in a soiled diaper.
I also understand everyone trying to prove their point but let's not start painting everyone with the same brush.
My suggestion is for providers to ask the parents....if the parent gives you written permission to leave their child in a soiled diaper so they can nap, then so be it. If your state rules/regs dictate to you when a child must be changed, then you also have your answer.
It is so simple....just ASK. Ask the parent which do they value more; the sleep their child gets/needs or their need to have a fresh clean diaper immediately after soiling.
There really is no need to argue with others about what they do. Do what YOUR state and clients require you to do.
My MIL's sister (edited to clarify) OWNS an assisted living community, and it has a nursing wing. They get bed sores and WICKED infections fast, they are also changed IMMEDIATELY. I have personally seen them remove them from the dining room, clean them up and bring them back out. I would be turning them in to the state ASAP if it were my loved one. I'm NOT getting into the debate about whether to wake a sleeping child if they soil their diapers....as my opinion has no bearing on what each providers state rules and/or regs say but I 100% disagree with the above statement.
Your CNA friend might work in a highly recommended facility but any facility that believes that leaving a human being in soiled diapers is okay, is NOT a facility I would ever place my loved ones in.
My daughter is a RN specializing in geriatric care and is also pursing her nursing home director's credentials and one of the very first things they are taught is a human beings right to be clean.
ALL soiled diapers are changed IMMEDIATELY regardless of what activity or non-activity (sleeping) the patient is doing.
They would NEVER leave them in a soiled diaper.
I also understand everyone trying to prove their point but let's not start painting everyone with the same brush.
My suggestion is for providers to ask the parents....if the parent gives you written permission to leave their child in a soiled diaper so they can nap, then so be it. If your state rules/regs dictate to you when a child must be changed, then you also have your answer.
It is so simple....just ASK. Ask the parent which do they value more; the sleep their child gets/needs or their need to have a fresh clean diaper immediately after soiling.
There really is no need to argue with others about what they do. Do what YOUR state and clients require you to do.
Here is my take on it-I would NEVER do/say something to a child that I would be afraid/ashamed to tell their parents. I couldn't imagine saying "Susie pooped during nap, but I waited until she woke up to change her!" and ANY of my dcp's saying "OK!"
Crystal 10:21 AM 08-08-2013
Originally Posted by Familycare71:
I'm definitely understanding the reason why people come on as unregistered!
And yes Chrystal- I have been doing this for years - 14- I am NEW to this forum. I would say your no spring chick yourself and you should know better than to treat people like poop to make a point! I didn't mistreat anyone. I stated my honest, professional opinion and what I KNOW to be appropriate care for children. This goes back to your post "flame away"....if you cannot handle the truth and don't want other opinions, don't ask for it.
I was honest- I have never changed sleeping children. Instead of saying - hey what are your regs have you thought about this... Etc... You (and nan) made it personal, rude and dramatic! There was no call for that- quite simply it isn't nice. I stated my professional opinion. I beleive it is neglectful to knowingly leave a child in a dirty diaper. That isn't personal, rude or dramatic. It is the truth.
And I find it interesting how on this thread your fine with venting but on another recent thread you went off a out someone doing just that. I am fine with venting when it isn't an unprofessional vent. The other thread that you are referring to was a provider calling a parent a POS. That is unprofessional. Saying you wish you didn't have to change a poop because it disturbs sleeping children is not unprofessional.
I'm going to guess you perhaps are an angry person and for that I feel sad. Not an angry person in the least. Very happy and living a rewarding, fulfilling life and enjoying a solid career. No need to feel sad for me.
I will look through the valid info in this thread- and make a decision about what I want to do in the future- but you will have had no part in it and I certainly won't share what conclusion I come to! It makes absolutley no difference to me if you listen to or learn from me at all. So long as you DO learn that it is not apporpriate to leave a child in a soiled diaper.....that's all that really matters.
At the end of the day, I just hope everyone understands that it is not okay to leave a child in a poopy diaper, no matter the reason for it. But, clearly, that isn't going to happen. Some people are set in their ways and will never change, so whatever.I'm definitely understanding the reason why people come on as unregistered!
And yes Chrystal- I have been doing this for years - 14- I am NEW to this forum. I would say your no spring chick yourself and you should know better than to treat people like poop to make a point! I didn't mistreat anyone. I stated my honest, professional opinion and what I KNOW to be appropriate care for children. This goes back to your post "flame away"....if you cannot handle the truth and don't want other opinions, don't ask for it.
I was honest- I have never changed sleeping children. Instead of saying - hey what are your regs have you thought about this... Etc... You (and nan) made it personal, rude and dramatic! There was no call for that- quite simply it isn't nice. I stated my professional opinion. I beleive it is neglectful to knowingly leave a child in a dirty diaper. That isn't personal, rude or dramatic. It is the truth.
And I find it interesting how on this thread your fine with venting but on another recent thread you went off a out someone doing just that. I am fine with venting when it isn't an unprofessional vent. The other thread that you are referring to was a provider calling a parent a POS. That is unprofessional. Saying you wish you didn't have to change a poop because it disturbs sleeping children is not unprofessional.
I'm going to guess you perhaps are an angry person and for that I feel sad. Not an angry person in the least. Very happy and living a rewarding, fulfilling life and enjoying a solid career. No need to feel sad for me.
I will look through the valid info in this thread- and make a decision about what I want to do in the future- but you will have had no part in it and I certainly won't share what conclusion I come to! It makes absolutley no difference to me if you listen to or learn from me at all. So long as you DO learn that it is not apporpriate to leave a child in a soiled diaper.....that's all that really matters.
Blackcat31 10:23 AM 08-08-2013
Originally Posted by Familycare71:
I don't have a problem with it- it is just utterly ridiculous that this forum would be the cause! A place that is touted as a SUPPORT for daycare providers! And I don't have an issue with people disagreeing or saying why- but my goodness-
Maybe it is easier to just walk away. Because this is ridiculous !!
I agree that this place is good for support but I disagree that support is the purpose....at least not for me.I don't have a problem with it- it is just utterly ridiculous that this forum would be the cause! A place that is touted as a SUPPORT for daycare providers! And I don't have an issue with people disagreeing or saying why- but my goodness-
Maybe it is easier to just walk away. Because this is ridiculous !!
I think the MAIN purpose of this forum is to learn. For providers to receive education and give education to others.
The support part is just the personal element we (as individuals) chose to either give or take from it. I don't think it is the main purpose though....
....or we wouldn't have a thread just for venting.
fwiw~ That is MY opinion....and I have yet to see anywhere in writing or an advertising statement that says this forum is for support.
I think we all do a pretty good job of supporting each other but I think that just comes naturally as providers and women.
Familycare71 10:30 AM 08-08-2013
Originally Posted by Blackcat31:
I agree that this place is good for support but I disagree that support is the purpose....at least not for me.
I think the MAIN purpose of this forum is to learn. For providers to receive education and give education to others.
The support part is just the personal element we (as individuals) chose to either give or take from it. I don't think it is the main purpose though....
....or we wouldn't have a thread just for venting.
fwiw~ That is MY opinion....and I have yet to see anywhere in writing or an advertising statement that says this forum is for support.
I think we all do a pretty good job of supporting each other but I think that just comes naturally as providers and women.
Good to knowI agree that this place is good for support but I disagree that support is the purpose....at least not for me.
I think the MAIN purpose of this forum is to learn. For providers to receive education and give education to others.
The support part is just the personal element we (as individuals) chose to either give or take from it. I don't think it is the main purpose though....
....or we wouldn't have a thread just for venting.
fwiw~ That is MY opinion....and I have yet to see anywhere in writing or an advertising statement that says this forum is for support.
I think we all do a pretty good job of supporting each other but I think that just comes naturally as providers and women.
Laurel 10:31 AM 08-08-2013
Originally Posted by nannyde:
I tried that. I tried just saying my opinion first on what I would do. How many ways are we to say it's WRONG and NEGLECTFUL to leave any human or animal sitting or laying or walking in waste?
Some of you guys will only accept that there ARE circumstances which make it ok. I'm saying that barring a life threatening situation like a fire there is NO good reason.
Period
I'm not obligated to come up with words that hedge that or minimize that to make a reader or poster on here feel better about doing the wrong thing. I don't need to consider someone's opinion that it is for the greater good.
What I do feel obligated to say is that this issue comes down to BASIC health and safety AND space. Learn BASIC health and safety and reevaluate your space with the kids you take in. If you don't know better then learn. If you have too many souls on board to easily provide basic safety and health then do the right thing and decrease your numbers so the ones you keep have enough space to be plucked out of bed mid nap, changed, and returned to bed without disturbing the others who can't get themselves to sleep once awakened.
I think you've covered all the ways to say it and some still don't agree with you. You can't convince or shame us into agreeing. I suppose if worse comes to worse you'll just have to let us feel the way we do. I tried that. I tried just saying my opinion first on what I would do. How many ways are we to say it's WRONG and NEGLECTFUL to leave any human or animal sitting or laying or walking in waste?
Some of you guys will only accept that there ARE circumstances which make it ok. I'm saying that barring a life threatening situation like a fire there is NO good reason.
Period
I'm not obligated to come up with words that hedge that or minimize that to make a reader or poster on here feel better about doing the wrong thing. I don't need to consider someone's opinion that it is for the greater good.
What I do feel obligated to say is that this issue comes down to BASIC health and safety AND space. Learn BASIC health and safety and reevaluate your space with the kids you take in. If you don't know better then learn. If you have too many souls on board to easily provide basic safety and health then do the right thing and decrease your numbers so the ones you keep have enough space to be plucked out of bed mid nap, changed, and returned to bed without disturbing the others who can't get themselves to sleep once awakened.
I might agree with you on other issues though.
I think we are just going to have to agree to disagree on this one though. Fair enough?Laurel
Familycare71 10:32 AM 08-08-2013
Originally Posted by Laurel:
I think you've covered all the ways to say it and some still don't agree with you. You can't convince or shame us into agreeing. I suppose if worse comes to worse you'll just have to let us feel the way we do.
I might agree with you on other issues though. I think we are just going to have to agree to disagree on this one though. Fair enough?
Laurel
I think you've covered all the ways to say it and some still don't agree with you. You can't convince or shame us into agreeing. I suppose if worse comes to worse you'll just have to let us feel the way we do.
I might agree with you on other issues though.
I think we are just going to have to agree to disagree on this one though. Fair enough?Laurel
Laurel 10:54 AM 08-08-2013
Originally Posted by Crystal:
At the end of the day, I just hope everyone understands that it is not okay to leave a child in a poopy diaper, no matter the reason for it. But, clearly, that isn't going to happen. Some people are set in their ways and will never change, so whatever.
Obviously they don't understand it is not okay or this thread wouldn't have opposing viewpoints from your own.At the end of the day, I just hope everyone understands that it is not okay to leave a child in a poopy diaper, no matter the reason for it. But, clearly, that isn't going to happen. Some people are set in their ways and will never change, so whatever.
We do understand your position though and you've stated it very clearly. Sometimes being heard is about as much as one can expect in these types of situations.
Laurel
Angelsj 11:00 AM 08-08-2013
Originally Posted by Crystal:
Same here. I really don't WANT to wake a child, but I'd rather wake them than leave them in their own waste.
Good grief, I never thought it would ever be a debate about whether it is better to change a diaper of let them sleep.
And, I am wondering why no one has answered my earlier post asking how one would feel if it was their OWN CHILD left to lay in feces for two hours for the sake of good sleep.
People don't tend to answer your posts because you have an attitude that screams of "I am right and anyone who disagrees does not deserve respect..differing opinions are not allowed." The very fact that the last sentence has an eyeroll at the end of it is exactly the point. Same here. I really don't WANT to wake a child, but I'd rather wake them than leave them in their own waste.
Good grief, I never thought it would ever be a debate about whether it is better to change a diaper of let them sleep.
And, I am wondering why no one has answered my earlier post asking how one would feel if it was their OWN CHILD left to lay in feces for two hours for the sake of good sleep.
As to the question, I raised eight children and NEVER woke one from a nap to change them, unless stuff was leaking from the diaper. No rashes or other issues. So no, no problem with my own sleeping through it.
In my experience MOST of the time, they poop just as or just before they wake up, but still I would not wake them.
Laurel 11:07 AM 08-08-2013
Originally Posted by Angelsj:
People don't tend to answer your posts because you have an attitude that screams of "I am right and anyone who disagrees does not deserve respect..differing opinions are not allowed." The very fact that the last sentence has an eyeroll at the end of it is exactly the point.
As to the question, I raised eight children and NEVER woke one from a nap to change them, unless stuff was leaking from the diaper. No rashes or other issues. So no, no problem with my own sleeping through it.
In my experience MOST of the time, they poop just as or just before they wake up, but still I would not wake them.
People don't tend to answer your posts because you have an attitude that screams of "I am right and anyone who disagrees does not deserve respect..differing opinions are not allowed." The very fact that the last sentence has an eyeroll at the end of it is exactly the point.
As to the question, I raised eight children and NEVER woke one from a nap to change them, unless stuff was leaking from the diaper. No rashes or other issues. So no, no problem with my own sleeping through it.
In my experience MOST of the time, they poop just as or just before they wake up, but still I would not wake them.
Laurel
Angelsj 11:09 AM 08-08-2013
Originally Posted by Blackcat31:
The ONLY exception is if they poo'ed and I was NOT aware of it.... but in most facilities (family care or centers) you are required to physically check on the child every 15-20 minutes, so there is no way you wouldn't be aware of it.
See, that is not true. I get close enough to see their little chests rising and falling, make sure they are not in any kind of an unsafe position, but I do NOT get close enough to sniff their bums. If I were to smell it, maybe (though I still doubt I would wake them), but generally, I do not get that close. MThe ONLY exception is if they poo'ed and I was NOT aware of it.... but in most facilities (family care or centers) you are required to physically check on the child every 15-20 minutes, so there is no way you wouldn't be aware of it.
My consistent pooper, even upon wakening, is not usually evident until I actually pick him up out of the PNP. I would be changing him immediately anyway, since I know he poops at nap, but if I didn't pick him up, I still wouldn't smell it.
Crystal 11:10 AM 08-08-2013
Originally Posted by Angelsj:
People don't tend to answer your posts because you have an attitude that screams of "I am right and anyone who disagrees does not deserve respect..differing opinions are not allowed." The very fact that the last sentence has an eyeroll at the end of it is exactly the point.
As to the question, I raised eight children and NEVER woke one from a nap to change them, unless stuff was leaking from the diaper. No rashes or other issues. So no, no problem with my own sleeping through it.
In my experience MOST of the time, they poop just as or just before they wake up, but still I would not wake them.
People answer my posts plenty....they don't respond when they know I am right and they are wrong. Instead of being able to have a productive discussion, they suddenly become victims. Honestly, I don't have the time, nor the patience for that. Trust me, there have been plenty of times that I have learned from others here, I don't get defensive and automatically argue just because they have differing viewpoints. I listen, learn and take what I can to improve upon my own practices. But, when I see something that is BLATANTLY wrong, I am going to say so. Honestly, I find it VERY hard to believe that any child can be left laying in feces for a couple of hours and not develop any redness or soreness whatsoever. I also find it difficult to believe that any parent would leave their own child in feces for a couple of hours, and if they did, I would consider that MORE neglectful than a provider doing it. People don't tend to answer your posts because you have an attitude that screams of "I am right and anyone who disagrees does not deserve respect..differing opinions are not allowed." The very fact that the last sentence has an eyeroll at the end of it is exactly the point.
As to the question, I raised eight children and NEVER woke one from a nap to change them, unless stuff was leaking from the diaper. No rashes or other issues. So no, no problem with my own sleeping through it.
In my experience MOST of the time, they poop just as or just before they wake up, but still I would not wake them.
FTR.....I have three or four years of posts here, with some being controversial but many being helpful, useful, professional and caring. I am not out to get anyone, and by no means do I think I know everything. IRL I am collaborative in nature. I work closely with many, many providers. I LOVE to learn from others, and I LOVE to share my experience and knowledge with others. I have grown professionally in large part due to my interactions with other providers. But, again, when I KNOW someone is wrong AND it pertains to the health, safety and well-being of children, I am going to voice my concern and my opinion. Take it or leave it, it's up to you.
(If you'd like to leave it, you can go to your user control panel and put me on ignore
)
Crystal 11:12 AM 08-08-2013
Originally Posted by Angelsj:
See, that is not true. I get close enough to see their little chests rising and falling, make sure they are not in any kind of an unsafe position, but I do NOT get close enough to sniff their bums. If I were to smell it, maybe (though I still doubt I would wake them), but generally, I do not get that close. M
My consistent pooper, even upon wakening, is not usually evident until I actually pick him up out of the PNP. I would be changing him immediately anyway, since I know he poops at nap, but if I didn't pick him up, I still wouldn't smell it.
Hahaha! I can smell every one of my kids from a mile away! I have a very sensitive sniffer though. I couldn't bear to leave a child in a dirty diaper, air quality is WAY to important to me See, that is not true. I get close enough to see their little chests rising and falling, make sure they are not in any kind of an unsafe position, but I do NOT get close enough to sniff their bums. If I were to smell it, maybe (though I still doubt I would wake them), but generally, I do not get that close. M
My consistent pooper, even upon wakening, is not usually evident until I actually pick him up out of the PNP. I would be changing him immediately anyway, since I know he poops at nap, but if I didn't pick him up, I still wouldn't smell it.
Familycare71 11:24 AM 08-08-2013
Originally Posted by Angelsj:
See, that is not true. I get close enough to see their little chests rising and falling, make sure they are not in any kind of an unsafe position, but I do NOT get close enough to sniff their bums. If I were to smell it, maybe (though I still doubt I would wake them), but generally, I do not get that close. M
My consistent pooper, even upon wakening, is not usually evident until I actually pick him up out of the PNP. I would be changing him immediately anyway, since I know he poops at nap, but if I didn't pick him up, I still wouldn't smell it.
See, that is not true. I get close enough to see their little chests rising and falling, make sure they are not in any kind of an unsafe position, but I do NOT get close enough to sniff their bums. If I were to smell it, maybe (though I still doubt I would wake them), but generally, I do not get that close. M
My consistent pooper, even upon wakening, is not usually evident until I actually pick him up out of the PNP. I would be changing him immediately anyway, since I know he poops at nap, but if I didn't pick him up, I still wouldn't smell it.
Blackcat31 11:37 AM 08-08-2013
Originally Posted by Blackcat31:
I feel the same.
I wouldn't even consider enrolling a family that didn't care as I personally DO care and wouldn't leave my own (or daycare kids) in poo. ever.
The ONLY exception is if they poo'ed and I was NOT aware of it.... but in most facilities (family care or centers) you are required to physically check on the child every 15-20 minutes, so there is no way you wouldn't be aware of it.
I feel the same.
I wouldn't even consider enrolling a family that didn't care as I personally DO care and wouldn't leave my own (or daycare kids) in poo. ever.
The ONLY exception is if they poo'ed and I was NOT aware of it.... but in most facilities (family care or centers) you are required to physically check on the child every 15-20 minutes, so there is no way you wouldn't be aware of it.
Originally Posted by Angelsj:
See, that is not true. I get close enough to see their little chests rising and falling, make sure they are not in any kind of an unsafe position, but I do NOT get close enough to sniff their bums. If I were to smell it, maybe (though I still doubt I would wake them), but generally, I do not get that close. M
My consistent pooper, even upon wakening, is not usually evident until I actually pick him up out of the PNP. I would be changing him immediately anyway, since I know he poops at nap, but if I didn't pick him up, I still wouldn't smell it.
My apologies See, that is not true. I get close enough to see their little chests rising and falling, make sure they are not in any kind of an unsafe position, but I do NOT get close enough to sniff their bums. If I were to smell it, maybe (though I still doubt I would wake them), but generally, I do not get that close. M
My consistent pooper, even upon wakening, is not usually evident until I actually pick him up out of the PNP. I would be changing him immediately anyway, since I know he poops at nap, but if I didn't pick him up, I still wouldn't smell it.
...I did not mean to imply that every kid smells or doesn't smell... LOL! I should have said in MY personal experience I've never had a kid poop that I couldn't tell.....Just getting within 12-24 inches of them, I can smell them so IME, there is NO way I, personally wouldn't know....
Wonder what parents feed their children so that their poo is milder to the sniffer...
I have some pretty RIPE kids. Thank goodness I only have 3 in diapers right now and a majority of their diet still consist of baby food.
blandino 11:41 AM 08-08-2013
Originally Posted by Blackcat31:
My apologies ...I did not mean to imply that every kid smells or doesn't smell... LOL!
I should have said in MY personal experience I've never had a kid poop that I couldn't tell.....Just getting within 12-24 inches of them, I can smell them so IME, there is NO way I, personally wouldn't know....
Wonder what parents feed their children so that their poo is milder to the sniffer... I have some pretty RIPE kids. Thank goodness I only have 3 in diapers right now and a majority of their diet still consist of baby food.
Once I had a little girl who ate extremely clean at home. They were European, and ate nothing processed and just much healthier than most of my kids. And I swear her BMs had no odor to them. I have no idea what caused that, but can't say I was complaining.My apologies
...I did not mean to imply that every kid smells or doesn't smell... LOL! I should have said in MY personal experience I've never had a kid poop that I couldn't tell.....Just getting within 12-24 inches of them, I can smell them so IME, there is NO way I, personally wouldn't know....
Wonder what parents feed their children so that their poo is milder to the sniffer...
I have some pretty RIPE kids. Thank goodness I only have 3 in diapers right now and a majority of their diet still consist of baby food.
Blackcat31 11:46 AM 08-08-2013
Originally Posted by blandino:
Once I had a little girl who ate extremely clean at home. They were European, and ate nothing processed and just much healthier than most of my kids. And I swear her BMs had no odor to them. I have no idea what caused that, but can't say I was complaining.
I am sure that diet has ALOT to do with smell. Once I had a little girl who ate extremely clean at home. They were European, and ate nothing processed and just much healthier than most of my kids. And I swear her BMs had no odor to them. I have no idea what caused that, but can't say I was complaining.
I know the kids I have that eat fast food on a regular basis.
.....they toot...ALOT.
momofsix 11:48 AM 08-08-2013
I'm late to the party...wow! I knew I had read on here before about nap poopers because when I read it I had one myself that was doing it.
Things were so calm back then LOL
https://www.daycare.com/forum/showthread.php?t=11341
Things were so calm back then LOL
https://www.daycare.com/forum/showthread.php?t=11341
CedarCreek 11:58 AM 08-08-2013
My one kiddo that has the worst BMS I've ever smelled also is my worst eater and has a horrible eating habit at home. ALL fast food or just junk.
He hardly ever eats here.
He hardly ever eats here.
MyAngels 11:59 AM 08-08-2013
Originally Posted by momofsix:
I'm late to the party...wow! I knew I had read on here before about nap poopers because when I read it I had one myself that was doing it.
Things were so calm back then LOL
https://www.daycare.com/forum/showthread.php?t=11341
I'm late to the party...wow! I knew I had read on here before about nap poopers because when I read it I had one myself that was doing it.
Things were so calm back then LOL
https://www.daycare.com/forum/showthread.php?t=11341
Sugar Magnolia 03:41 PM 08-08-2013
Poop happens. And when the poop hits the the fan, you gotta deal with it. That's life.
Brooksie 03:47 PM 08-08-2013
Originally Posted by Sugar Magnolia:
Poop happens. And when the poop hits the the fan, you gotta deal with it. That's life.
Poop happens. And when the poop hits the the fan, you gotta deal with it. That's life.
Oh my gosh, I think if you had been the first comment when I posted originally it would have settled the debate before it even started Love it!
Angelsj 03:52 PM 08-08-2013
Originally Posted by Blackcat31:
My apologies ...I did not mean to imply that every kid smells or doesn't smell... LOL!
I should have said in MY personal experience I've never had a kid poop that I couldn't tell.....Just getting within 12-24 inches of them, I can smell them so IME, there is NO way I, personally wouldn't know....
Wonder what parents feed their children so that their poo is milder to the sniffer... I have some pretty RIPE kids. Thank goodness I only have 3 in diapers right now and a majority of their diet still consist of baby food.
My apologies
...I did not mean to imply that every kid smells or doesn't smell... LOL! I should have said in MY personal experience I've never had a kid poop that I couldn't tell.....Just getting within 12-24 inches of them, I can smell them so IME, there is NO way I, personally wouldn't know....
Wonder what parents feed their children so that their poo is milder to the sniffer...
I have some pretty RIPE kids. Thank goodness I only have 3 in diapers right now and a majority of their diet still consist of baby food.Originally Posted by blandino:
Once I had a little girl who ate extremely clean at home. They were European, and ate nothing processed and just much healthier than most of my kids. And I swear her BMs had no odor to them. I have no idea what caused that, but can't say I was complaining.
LOL I absolutely agree that diet must have a lot to do with it. The one little two year old eats pretty well. Mom and Dad pay very close attention to his diet. Once I had a little girl who ate extremely clean at home. They were European, and ate nothing processed and just much healthier than most of my kids. And I swear her BMs had no odor to them. I have no idea what caused that, but can't say I was complaining.
I have a three year old (non napper) that someone with NO sense of smell could not miss. That boy can clear a room!!!
craftymissbeth 04:09 PM 08-08-2013
Originally Posted by momofsix:
I'm late to the party...wow! I knew I had read on here before about nap poopers because when I read it I had one myself that was doing it.
Things were so calm back then LOL
https://www.daycare.com/forum/showthread.php?t=11341
I'm late to the party...wow! I knew I had read on here before about nap poopers because when I read it I had one myself that was doing it.
Things were so calm back then LOL
https://www.daycare.com/forum/showthread.php?t=11341
Things got WAY to crazy on that thread. I'm surprised the mods didn't show up I change poopy babies as soon as I notice that they're poopy. But there are times that I honestly do not even notice. Some PP up there in this crazy town of a thread insinuated that if the children were properly supervised that we would all know as soon as someone was in the midst of a bowel movement. IDK, there are times when it's obvious, but there are times that it's not.
Candy 04:24 PM 08-08-2013
Not a toddler because i don't bother them while sleeping and wouldn't know until they got up and walked around.
Twinvillageiowa 04:32 PM 08-08-2013
Why are you always so bloody RUDE? Anything you say is said in a nasty, snarky way. Even if you have any valuable advice, you turn people off by the way you say it. You act like somebody died and made you the queen. You are NOT always right yet refuse to believe that there could be another acceptable way of doing really anything. You are one of the most judgmental people I have ever come across.
Originally Posted by nannyde:
Oh State Regs...
Glad you brought them up...
Well let's see. How about
New York
417.11 (o) Infants must be kept clean and
comfortable at all times. Diapers must be
changed when wet or soiled.
417.8 (a)(1) The caregiver must
be awake at all times and physically
check sleeping children every 15 minutes
Maryland.
D. To assist in preventing the spread of disease, the provider shall:
(1) Promptly change a child's diaper, clothing, and bedding when soiled or wet;
(2) Follow diapering procedures designed to prevent the transmission of disease, which are established and supplied by the Office; and
(3) Maintain the surface used for diapering in a clean and sanitary manner.
Oklahma.
Center rules:
Section 25. Care of infants, toddlers, and two-year-olds
(6) Diapers are checked hourly and whenever the child indicates discomfort or
exhibits behavior that suggests a soiled or wet diaper.
(7) Diapers are changed promptly when wet or soiled.
family care rules
Section 93. Infants, toddlers, and two-year-olds
(d) Diaper-changing. Diapers are changed promptly when wet or soiled.
(1) A clean nonporous surface or pad is used for diaper changes and
sanitized after each use. Care is taken to prevent spread of germs
I honestly can't believe we are having to discuss this. It's a first for me and I've been on boards for 15 years.
Come on ladies... THINK
THINK about leaving any human being lying in poopy pants.
Oh State Regs...
Glad you brought them up...
Well let's see. How about
New York
417.11 (o) Infants must be kept clean and
comfortable at all times. Diapers must be
changed when wet or soiled.
417.8 (a)(1) The caregiver must
be awake at all times and physically
check sleeping children every 15 minutes
Maryland.
D. To assist in preventing the spread of disease, the provider shall:
(1) Promptly change a child's diaper, clothing, and bedding when soiled or wet;
(2) Follow diapering procedures designed to prevent the transmission of disease, which are established and supplied by the Office; and
(3) Maintain the surface used for diapering in a clean and sanitary manner.
Oklahma.
Center rules:
Section 25. Care of infants, toddlers, and two-year-olds
(6) Diapers are checked hourly and whenever the child indicates discomfort or
exhibits behavior that suggests a soiled or wet diaper.
(7) Diapers are changed promptly when wet or soiled.
family care rules
Section 93. Infants, toddlers, and two-year-olds
(d) Diaper-changing. Diapers are changed promptly when wet or soiled.
(1) A clean nonporous surface or pad is used for diaper changes and
sanitized after each use. Care is taken to prevent spread of germs
I honestly can't believe we are having to discuss this. It's a first for me and I've been on boards for 15 years.
Come on ladies... THINK
THINK about leaving any human being lying in poopy pants.
Brooksie 04:47 PM 08-08-2013
Originally Posted by Twinvillageiowa:
Why are you always so bloody RUDE? Anything you say is said in a nasty, snarky way. Even if you have any valuable advice, you turn people off by the way you say it. You act like somebody died and made you the queen. You are NOT always right yet refuse to believe that there could be another acceptable way of doing really anything. You are one of the most judgmental people I have ever come across.
BOOM! Why are you always so bloody RUDE? Anything you say is said in a nasty, snarky way. Even if you have any valuable advice, you turn people off by the way you say it. You act like somebody died and made you the queen. You are NOT always right yet refuse to believe that there could be another acceptable way of doing really anything. You are one of the most judgmental people I have ever come across.
Familycare71 05:23 PM 08-08-2013
Originally Posted by Twinvillageiowa:
Why are you always so bloody RUDE? Anything you say is said in a nasty, snarky way. Even if you have any valuable advice, you turn people off by the way you say it. You act like somebody died and made you the queen. You are NOT always right yet refuse to believe that there could be another acceptable way of doing really anything. You are one of the most judgmental people I have ever come across.
Why are you always so bloody RUDE? Anything you say is said in a nasty, snarky way. Even if you have any valuable advice, you turn people off by the way you say it. You act like somebody died and made you the queen. You are NOT always right yet refuse to believe that there could be another acceptable way of doing really anything. You are one of the most judgmental people I have ever come across.
Familycare71 05:24 PM 08-08-2013
Originally Posted by Sugar Magnolia:
Poop happens. And when the poop hits the the fan, you gotta deal with it. That's life.
Poop happens. And when the poop hits the the fan, you gotta deal with it. That's life.
suehelen 02:55 AM 08-21-2013
Originally Posted by nannyde:
It's not being a bully. There's no kind gentle way to say you are being negligent. It would be one thing if this was a discussion of when to change but it's now a defense of something that is JUST PLAIN WRONG. We are trying to get you too see it.
I've been on daycare boards for 15 years and this is about the most ridiculous discussion I have seen. We have completely lost our ability to make basic common sense decisions.
I'm with you, Nan.It's not being a bully. There's no kind gentle way to say you are being negligent. It would be one thing if this was a discussion of when to change but it's now a defense of something that is JUST PLAIN WRONG. We are trying to get you too see it.
I've been on daycare boards for 15 years and this is about the most ridiculous discussion I have seen. We have completely lost our ability to make basic common sense decisions.
Leanna 06:29 AM 08-21-2013
Wow, what a conversation!
I just want to point something out to anyone who may be on the fence of this issue - to those who may be thinking that there are times when it is acceptable to leave a child in a dirty diaper. Go back and reread some of Crystal's posts. Notice how she used the word "crap" and even "sh****" once. Aren't those powerful words that make you realize what is actually happening when you choose not to change a diaper? It isn't "dirty" or "poopy" or "BM" (all mild and, apparently to some, acceptable), it is CRAP, S***, HUMAN WASTE. Imagine using the bathroom and not wiping or flushing? How would your body feel? How would your house smell? Imagine a child vomiting in his sleep. What if the vomit only gets on his shirt (the way poop is contained in a diaper)? Would you let the child sleep with vomit on him? Definitely not right? Fecal matter in a diaper is no different!
Maintaining basic health and safety is BASIC, the very foundation of the care we provide. Let's aim much higher than that ladies!
1 2
I just want to point something out to anyone who may be on the fence of this issue - to those who may be thinking that there are times when it is acceptable to leave a child in a dirty diaper. Go back and reread some of Crystal's posts. Notice how she used the word "crap" and even "sh****" once. Aren't those powerful words that make you realize what is actually happening when you choose not to change a diaper? It isn't "dirty" or "poopy" or "BM" (all mild and, apparently to some, acceptable), it is CRAP, S***, HUMAN WASTE. Imagine using the bathroom and not wiping or flushing? How would your body feel? How would your house smell? Imagine a child vomiting in his sleep. What if the vomit only gets on his shirt (the way poop is contained in a diaper)? Would you let the child sleep with vomit on him? Definitely not right? Fecal matter in a diaper is no different!
Maintaining basic health and safety is BASIC, the very foundation of the care we provide. Let's aim much higher than that ladies!