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Daycare Center and Family Home Forum>CCIS if Not Licensed
melissa ann 03:35 PM 12-15-2009
I have a question. If I'm not licensed can my dcf still use CCIS? Grandfather talked to me about it. Turns out he qualifies for child care assistance. I will get a phone call tomorrow from CCIS to ask me some questions. I will need a background check. How much does that cost?
Most weeks for one child I get $54. Because they are ususally only here my min of 3 days. But if it goes through, I will have one of the kids everyday(yes, more income for me) but I guess I will get paid monthly from
CCIS and he would owe a little each week what isn't covered. Any help would be appreciated.
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gbcc 04:11 PM 12-15-2009
I live in NY and before I became registered I was able to receive dss as payment. They paid me less than registered providers. It did not cost me anything. It cost the parent though depending on their income level. I had one parent pay me $1 and another pay me $16.
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Former Teacher 04:57 PM 12-15-2009
This was how it was for my former center (licenced child care) in TX:

It is called CCDS here. They would pay so much and the parent would pay the rest, depending on their income. We once had 1 mother pay 225 for the month while another mother had to pay only 5.00. Yes 5 dollars for a year old baby for over 11 hours of care for one month. Anyway more on her later.

Because it was through the state, there was ALOT of paperwork. We had to fill out the days the child was there. After so many absents, we would not be paid for that day. Oh and they paid LESS than what we charged. They also did not cover all our closings. For example, we were closed the Friday after Thanksgiving. We were not paid that day because it is not a federal holiday. Also we were paid 2 months BEHIND. So we would get December's payment in February.

You can not charge late fees (pick ups nor payments), nor can you charge the parents for field trips taken (we did anyway). As I said about that mother: she was "supposedly" looking for a job. Although she would drop her baby off at 7 am and pick him up in the same pj bottoms at 6:30. The day we told her that her month was 5.00, she said "oh well, I can give it to you next week, I just don't have it"...Give the director her due she finally had it with the system. She told this mother that if she can't pay her 5 dollars she will be charged an extra 25 dollars a day until its paid in full. This mother went to car and paid the money.

As I said this is how it is in TX. We have had many experiences more bad than good with the state help. Does it make it easier for the parents: yes of course. Is it worth all the hassle and stress: absolutely not!

Good luck!
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kiddiecare 06:49 AM 12-16-2009
It's called DHS here, and you don't have to be licensed to receive money from them but you do have to be on the criminal registry ($3). You can charge the parents whatever you want as they have a contract with YOU not the state. When i nterview a dhs client i make it very clear that there will be fees that the state will not cover including any ealy/late drop offs/pick-ups and late payment fees. I also point out that all my other clients pre-pay for their spot so any co-pays or amounts over what the state said theyd help pay will be do before care. Ex: If their co-pay is $25 for the month and my fees exceed what the state will pay by $75 then they would have to pay $100, i offer to take the amount and break it up into payments. I am not judging or saying that all parents on dhs are 'bad' as i once was on it too but so far while doing this business all the dhs clients i have enrolled have not been good, not paying co-pays not respecting the rules they agreed to, even having 2 dcm ask me to claim that the child was here longer so that the state would pay more then i could give them the $..they were'nt clients long. Since I implemented my new assistance contract i honestely have not enrolled any new dhs clients, done lots of interviews but so far they dont want to be treated like all the other clients and dont want to be held accountable with a contract.
Here if a dcp is on dhs they have to call and have their name linked with mine BEFORE i will consider them dhs clients and enroll them as such, if they say they are in the process of getting it then theyd have to enroll and pay the fees as a regular client untill they are linked to my daycare through the state, and yes i have had to take a dhs client to small claims court and i won. Just because they need help doesnt mean they should be treated any different. Here's a copy of the contract i have for assisted payment, I also include a regular contract in their parent pack so they can see it.
Contract
(Financial Assistance)

Co-Payments and any amounts due not covered by DHS or any assistance program will be due in advance of childcare. Any amount not paid by DHS for any reason after they have issued me a check will be due within three (3) business days after I have been paid by DHS. If payments haven’t been made within three days of the due date the childcare contract will be terminated with all fees applicable, including late fees and the two week termination fee. If DHS does not pay your childcare fees for any reason you are responsible for paying the full amount due within 3 business days of receiving notice that your bill was not paid. This is an amendment to Kiddie Care and Plays payment policies for State assisted clients only. My fees are based on a flat weekly rate for ALL clients and are as follows:
Full Time- 21-50 hours a week: $125.00 per child per week ($135- In Diapers)
Part Time- 1-20 hours a week: $62.50 per child per week ($72.00- In Diapers)

Parent/Guardian understands and agrees that they will be charged the same rate as all clientele and are responsible for any amount not paid by the state or any other assistance programs.

I have received, read and understand Kiddie Care and Plays’ Daycare policy handbook. I understand and agree to comply fully.

Parents signature ________________________ Date __________

Parents signature ________________________ Date __________

This is a contract between_______________________(Parents/Guardian),
and (provider name), owner and operator of Kiddie Care and Play.
Childcare services will be provided for the following child/ren:
1. _____________________________________
2. ________________________________

3. ________________________________
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GretasLittleFriends 10:43 AM 12-16-2009
I think it depends on the state whether you can receive child care assistance if you're not licensed.

As for the background check I had to pay $100/yr and that was good for anyone I needed checked (over the age of 13) in my home. It included me, my husband and my daughter once she turned 13. It would still include a helper or two or three between now and when that year is up.

With our child care assistance in MN we (the provider) have the option to get paid every other week or monthly. I chose the bi-weekly. On my forms there are places for additional fees and places for comments. We can claim non-standard hour fees, activity fees (field trips etc) as well as other fees. I do believe that the parent is responsible for late fees though.

Personally I think it is well worth accepting the people who qualify for assistance. Honestly though, I care for 7 kids right now with two more starting in 1.5 weeks. Out of those 9 kids right now only 4 are not on state assistance, and honestly out of those 4 who are not they probably could each be. One mom (of those 4) is still a H.S. student and is in the process of getting on county/state assistance so she can afford daycare while she finishes high school. Unfortunately for her there is a waiting line to get assistance and they're not taking into account that she's in HS and is likely a higher need for it than another family I used to have who had 3 kids and both parents have full time jobs... That's an aggravating story for another thread and another day though.
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melissa ann 04:33 PM 12-18-2009
this seems like more trouble than it's worth. And now grandfather is trying to caluclate how much he will have to pay since on averge the boy is only here 3 days/week. First, he said he would bring him everyday. I'm thinking of telling him, that if he wants to get child care assisatance he needs to find another provider. He didn't even ask my thoughts on this. He just assumed that I would think this the greatest thing since slice bread and go along with it.
Most weeks he only pays $54/week. This week it was $72 and most it's $90 but those are very rare. now, he works like 45 mins away and has 2, yes, 2 vechicles. One is only worth a few hundred dollars but the other he is making payments. They are sport utility vehicles, so tell me how much he pays in gas a/week and he wants to complain about paying $54/week? He works at a very, very well known store which many sell food, clothing, toys, electronics everything and we live just 7 miles away from another one.
I will have to pay out more ($36 for fingerprinting, the closest one for me to go to is about 15 miles or so away, then drive to the next town for the meeting with ccis, mail out monthly forms (I'm assuming I'll have to pay postage) then every 2 years have 20 bucks taken out of my pay to review my fingerpints) IMO, it's just not worth the headaches I"m sure I'll encounter.
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gbcc 04:52 PM 12-18-2009
Originally Posted by melissa ann:
this seems like more trouble than it's worth. I'm thinking of telling him, that if he wants to get child care assisatance he needs to find another provider. He didn't even ask my thoughts on this. He just assumed that I would think this the greatest thing since slice bread and go along with it.
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Maybe it depends on the state but he probably assumed because it is illegal to deny childcare because they receive financial assistance. I know a provider that refused to take DSS funding. The parents got a lawyer and DSS and the parents sued the provider for discrimination.

Now, you could use another excuse such as. "I thought we agreed you would be full time. I'm sorry to say but you need to commit to full time or I will have to fill your spot from my waiting list." Just don't tell anyone it was an excuse.
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Former Teacher 05:01 PM 12-18-2009
Like I said Melissa...it's not worth it. Save yourself the stress and aggravation and tell him what GBCC said.

I have dealt with parents like him. You don't want to have him or people like him in your center.
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tymaboy 06:13 PM 12-18-2009
Here you do not need to be registered but being non registered you get paid less. Here I can also decide not to take assistance. I dont know what non registered providers need to do but the registered ones do not have to pay for the back ground checks (we do not do figure prints) If we choose to take assistance then those parents that are considered high risk parents (social services make frequent visits to family) then the provider needs to be registered but if the family receives assistance cue of low income then any provider can care for kids. I think if you accept it then you will get visited (home inspections) more often then if you do not accept it.
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melissa ann 02:07 PM 12-19-2009
Do I have to accept childcare from him with assistance or do I have the option of refusing? Could he say it is discrimation? I'm in PA and I don't want to have to go through all of this. It's my business and I should be able to run it as I want.
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gbcc 03:50 PM 12-19-2009
In NY it is discrimination. They could turn it into a low income type of deal. They would have a case because they have the ability to pay but you wont let them because they get welfare. Like a said in a previous post a women in my town was sued by the family and DSS. She lost.

In NY also if we get a child in a wheel chair who wants to come here we can't deny them. We have to re-do our home with our own money to accomodate for the child. Build ramps, make the bathroom accessible, make sure hallways are wide enough and the list goes on.

To be safe I would make up an excuse. Do you have a lawyer you can consult with?
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momofboys 08:01 PM 12-19-2009
I would tell the grandpa that you would be willing to do it if he'll pay for your fingerprint checks & other misc expenses resulting from accepting this form of payment. It creates more work for you & more expense. IMO it seems like a major hassle. Sorry you have to go through this!
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momofboys 08:03 PM 12-19-2009
Originally Posted by gbcc:
In NY it is discrimination. They could turn it into a low income type of deal. They would have a case because they have the ability to pay but you wont let them because they get welfare. Like a said in a previous post a women in my town was sued by the family and DSS. She lost.

In NY also if we get a child in a wheel chair who wants to come here we can't deny them. We have to re-do our home with our own money to accomodate for the child. Build ramps, make the bathroom accessible, make sure hallways are wide enough and the list goes on.

To be safe I would make up an excuse. Do you have a lawyer you can consult with?
I guess what floors me about this is that it is your own business, why should you have to incur an extra expense in order to accomodate a wheelchair? Why would the parent even want someone as a caregiver who wasn't already set up to accomodate them. Seems bizarre to me! I do see how it could be perceived as discrimination but it seems unlikely that a parent would insist on a caregiver who isn't prepared for their child.
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gbcc 08:04 AM 12-20-2009
I agree, it is my business and more importantly MY HOME. Who are they to say? NYS is ALL about getting into your business. That is why so many people are beginning to relocate. There are stipulations and extra taxes on everything.

It is my hope they would not prefer me. There are always those people out there that like to make others miserable because they fell on hard times. Luckily I have never been faced with it.

I don't have to pay for getting DSS childcare payments. But there is still a 2 wk wait to get your money and of course if the person gets kicked of the program you don't get notified until after the services are provided.
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momofboys 05:31 PM 12-20-2009
Originally Posted by gbcc:
Maybe it depends on the state but he probably assumed because it is illegal to deny childcare because they receive financial assistance. I know a provider that refused to take DSS funding. The parents got a lawyer and DSS and the parents sued the provider for discrimination.

Now, you could use another excuse such as. "I thought we agreed you would be full time. I'm sorry to say but you need to commit to full time or I will have to fill your spot from my waiting list." Just don't tell anyone it was an excuse.
When I was get registered in my state (not certified, just registered) they asked me if I wanted to be on the list to accept state funding. So I was allowed to tell them that I did not want to accept it as payment. They never said you were required to accept it.
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momofboys 05:33 PM 12-20-2009
Originally Posted by gbcc:
I agree, it is my business and more importantly MY HOME. Who are they to say? NYS is ALL about getting into your business. That is why so many people are beginning to relocate. There are stipulations and extra taxes on everything.

It is my hope they would not prefer me. There are always those people out there that like to make others miserable because they fell on hard times. Luckily I have never been faced with it.

I don't have to pay for getting DSS childcare payments. But there is still a 2 wk wait to get your money and of course if the person gets kicked of the program you don't get notified until after the services are provided.
I'm sorry! I hope they don't prefer you for your sake!
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mac60 06:09 PM 12-20-2009
Originally Posted by gbcc:
In NY it is discrimination. They could turn it into a low income type of deal. They would have a case because they have the ability to pay but you wont let them because they get welfare. Like a said in a previous post a women in my town was sued by the family and DSS. She lost.

In NY also if we get a child in a wheel chair who wants to come here we can't deny them. We have to re-do our home with our own money to accomodate for the child. Build ramps, make the bathroom accessible, make sure hallways are wide enough and the list goes on.

To be safe I would make up an excuse. Do you have a lawyer you can consult with?
This is absolutely assinine. I couldn't afford to do their to my own home if it needed done for me and my husband, let along a dc kid. Perfect examples of why I would never do this job and be licensed. The rules and regs are simply stupid.
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kiddiecare 07:18 AM 12-21-2009
Melissa Anne, What is your policy on payments? Do you make parents pay in advance? If so tell Grandpa that even if he gets assistance he has to prepay like all other clients and when/i the state pays you he will get reimbursed. In Oregon it is illegal to discriminate however you can deny your services by stating that you are not equiped to care for a special needs childs, I also have now told our local ccrr (child care resource and referal) that i do not want dhs clients refered to me anymore. It sounds like you'e been having issues with 'Grandpa' for a while now, maybe you could send out a notice stating that starting in Jan you will only be accepting full time clients and that all clients will be required to pay in advance of care (if you dont do that already). Or simply terminate the childcare contract with him, if you've had late payments ect state that as a reason or just say that the hours and days he needs is not to your best interest. Hopefully if you're wanting to term he will show up late soon or not pay and you can term on the spot. I like the idea of telling him that he will have to pay for all extra costs including gas and your time to do what needs to be done in order to recieve payments from the state IF you were agreeable to that but at this time you are not able to recieve assistance payments. Good lcuk
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gbcc 09:57 AM 12-21-2009
Originally Posted by mac60:
This is absolutely assinine. I couldn't afford to do their to my own home if it needed done for me and my husband, let along a dc kid. Perfect examples of why I would never do this job and be licensed. The rules and regs are simply stupid.
I often wish I had never became registered. It's too late now. I have a good reputation and I live in a small town. They would definately find out if I turned in my lisence and continued doing child care.
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momma2girls 11:12 AM 12-21-2009
My experience with state funded children, you actually receive quite a bit less than your normal rate you would get paid from someone not on assistance!!!
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melissa ann 03:40 PM 12-21-2009
Grandpa said that he has $35 deductible or copay. Does he pay that directly to me? Because he said that by CCIS paying $12/day (I"m not sure how he knows that, I was told when I spoke to CCIS that they pay anywhere from 9-12/day) that I would actually make more money. The 3 day min rate(what I charge) is $54. But if CCIS pays $12/day which comes to $36 and he pays $35 that would be $71. I assumed they would deduct his $35 from my total amount. I don't understand this at all.
I did call CCIS today. I did speak to them last week when they called. But, I questioned the Dec 7 date that grandpa spoke about because I said this child has been with me since March 2008. Well, apparantly there is a 7 month waiting list and Dec 7 is the first day that this will take affect. They will go back to that date. Why didn't grandpa mention this 7 months ago? But, I do have the option of refusing. But I must tell grandpa so that if wants to get assistance he has to find someone else. He has 30 days to find someone.
My hubby thinks I should bail on this. My MIL says I should do it.
I believe I will tell grandpa tomorrow that I don't want to participate in the program. I told him last week, what all I would have to do just for him to get it. I have the kids all day, when can I even go get this done? My hubby would have to walk to work so I can take our van and find someone to watch the kids while I"m gone.
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kiddiecare 09:17 AM 12-22-2009
We are unable to charge a dhs client more than a normal client so if grandpa is saying you'll get more than you normally charge be very careful! Co-pays are to be paid by the parent every month, there is a spot on the billing form that you will mail out at the end of the month asking if the parent has paid thier co-pay, (at least here they do) If it hasnt been paid and only promised do not lie for the parents! For any reason! Here if the parent doesnt pay they can loose their benefits. Only you can decide if its worth doing, honestly your husbad lives with you and not the mil (im assuming) If your man is saying not to, I'd listen, And my personal advice (i'm not against state help) is don't do it, I've had nothing but problems with EVERY client I have had on assistance. Yes even some that arent however the major ones have been the ones going through the state.

Tell Grandpa that his hours and days no longer work for you daycare and family and that you are not able to accept state assisted payments. Give him a two week termination notice and make sure that all fees are paid, do NOT let grandpa tell you that since he was accepted through the state as of Dec 7th that you will have to get all but his $35 co-pay from them, when he started daycare the state was not involved and the contract you have is with him. If he wants to keep things the way they are without more care and the state then id tell him that as of the 1st of january your policy pf payment will be in advance of care. See what he has to say to that, from all of your previous posts it really sounds as if you have been taken advantage of by this family..Good Luck
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melissa ann 11:05 AM 12-26-2009
So the co-pay is paid monthly? grandpa said he had to pay the $35/weekly.
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kiddiecare 02:41 PM 12-27-2009
In Oregon the co-pays are monthly, maybe grandpa actually has a larger co-pay but is choosing to pay you weekly to break it up? It seriously is a pain in the ass and i've stopped taking these clients, first its not fair to my other clients that are required to pay in advance of care to let state assisted not have too and its to hard to collect what is owed to you, have you talked to the state what their policy is on paying if the child isnt there? Here they will be a certain number of days for the child being gone but if they are out longer than that then you lose out on the money unless you have a contract with the parent that says they will pay any amounts that the state doesnt for any reason.
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wejo928 09:49 AM 12-29-2009
I have been receiveing payments thru CCIS in PA for over 10 years as a relative/family provider for my unlicenced daycare. CCIS pays you monthly but parents pay their co-pays weekly on Monday for the week they are starting. If it is not paid I must notify CCIS and after 2 weeks of non-payment they are put on hold. So no payment for me till they pay.
The copays are taken out of your monthly check.
They do not allow 2 weeks notice. The parents can change childcare providers without any notice to us unless you count CCIS asking if their copays are paid up to date. But in my contract it requires them to pay even if CCIS does not.
We do get paid for days children are absent up to 10 days in a row. After wich time I have to notify CCIS and they are disenrolled from my center.
I get paid 63 days for care after parents have a baby to keep their spots open so they can come back. The parents still have to pay copay during that time but if the children do nto attend I do not.
They do pay quite a bit less but I only have to charge the same if I am a licenced provider and the pay is greater.
Just be carefull. I got screwed big time.
If the parents are on a call in bases and do not call in I do to get paid for all days. nThey must call in before the week starts.
If they are on a set schedule and the parents bring the child extra cause their schedule changes then you will not be paid for all days till their schedule is the same for a month straight.
I can charge extra for food, transportaion and field-trips. N
But all payments parents make to me must be applied towrds their currant copays.

To protect myself my contracts are very long and I explain everything very well. They must pay for all days CCIS does not pay for, and must be paid within 1 week from when I present the paperwork.
All payments must be in cash or money orders.
I also require all copays paid by Monday 12 noon or I report. After they are suspended and still have to [ay me by contract they do nto let it hapen again.

I had to pay $36 for FBI fingerfrints and a $20 a yr fee for my criminal & state clearance 1 time a year. Plus they cut our pays big time. With all the changes I started chargeing for meals & snacks and parents can choose to bring diapers or bring them & wipes.
I have 1 parent who pays $5 week for 2 children, another $% for 1 child and another $40 for 1 child.t goes by their income but this last year with the PA budget being delayed was the only time their was a problem with the state paying.

I hope this helps some.

We can choose to take CCIS or Title 20 if we choose to or not. Right now there is a 2 year waiting list and no new people being taken.
I meet with the parents ahead of time and am very strict with what comes in and out of my house. Diapers & wipes from store not home. Food also from store. I do not want roaches or bedbuggs.

I had 1 person bring their baby in a carseat & set it on my sofa. When I lifted it up I saw a roach crawl out. I went nuts and would not allow anything in.

Now all children come without anything but the coat & clothes on their back & a pacifier.
All coats are stored in ziploc bags and shoes also. They get slippers on here till they leave. In summer sandels. I buy each child 2 outfits from thrift shop that parents must rembusre me for to keep as back-up. I send them home in a clean outfit if it gets messy and I wash the dirty outfit till needed.
Some parents complained at first till they saw the Gap & Old Navy outfits I buy and actally prefer to give us money to get clothing as they grow. I am not saying this is because they are on CCis. It could be form private pay also.
We provide our own carseats for transportation and blankets form wrapping the children in when being taken in & out & kept at my house.
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STARSHINE852@aol.com 05:28 AM 04-03-2010
Originally Posted by melissa ann:
Do I have to accept childcare from him with assistance or do I have the option of refusing? Could he say it is discrimation? I'm in PA and I don't want to have to go through all of this. It's my business and I should be able to run it as I want.


I live in PA you DO NOT have to accept CCIS. What you say is you are not CCIS qualified. Thats what I said at first.If they ask why, just tell them you don't want to go through the hassle of paper work.
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Unregistered 04:18 AM 04-04-2012
I was taking Ccis for this girl, she was working full time and paid 32$ a wk. well here she lost her job but I never knew she kept bring the kid. Now Ccis is calling me, will I have to pay them back since it shouldnt of been paid to me i guess or what?
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Unregistered 06:36 PM 11-20-2014
I stumbled across this thread while looking for information about putting my children in a daycare. After reading what i have read here, I will NOT be putting my children in daycare! Everyone knows that it takes money to make money.... You people are getting paid. What does it matter HOW or WHO is paying you? Not everyone makes $20+ an hr. When you people are charging parents $150-$400 a wk per kid what do you think is going to happen. Most people can not afford that. So they start looking for help. Because they need to work to support their family. Than the see a thread like this. I would not trust a single one of you with my children. There is no way i would feel confident that you people wouldn't be taking your extremely selfish behavior out on my children.

I do understand that you need to be paid. I would be extremely upset if i did not get paid for doing my job. However as long as i was getting my money i would not care who was giving it to me.

I also understand that there are people out there that get assistance who don't deserve it.
And people who take advantage of the help that is offered. However all of you are being the definition of discrimination. Not everyone getting assistance are like that. Some of us just hit a hard spot. Like losing a successful career (that they no longer can do) due to unforeseen health issues. Its because of people like ALL of you that they have laws against discrimination.


Another thing is people who should be caring for children should be people who love being around children. NOT people like ALL OF YOU who only care about who is giving them money.
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Unregistered 07:08 PM 11-20-2014
1. This thread is old. You don't even know if any of these posters still do daycare.
2. Daycare is a business.
3. Not all of the money they get is theirs to keep. It costs money to have the space, equipment, food and supplies needed.
4. Some of the problems are with the system, not the families. Do you work without getting paid?
5. See 2. Daycare is a business. It is work. People deserve to be paid. Without begging for said pay!
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Tags:ccds, ccis, co-pay, dhs, texas
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