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  #1  
Old 03-10-2015, 08:28 AM
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Default Friend Over Limit, Leaves Her 2 Kids At Home

I am a registered user but for this post I'd like to remain anonymous. I know I will probably get bashed for this post by some of the members here. However, I am very concerned about these children. My friend, quit her job (too stressful and an 1 1/2 hr commute just one way) She has 3 kids of her own. 1 in kindergarten (half day), 1 who is 4 yrs old and 1 who is 2 yrs old. She just started her childcare last week.

Here is where I am concerned. She picks up her son at the bus stop after school plus another boy who is also in kindergarten. She brings with her, a stroller with a child under 1 yr old, another child under 1 who she carries while pushing the stroller, and 3 other kids who range between 3 and 4 yrs old. She is watching 6 kids plus her own 3. In PA, we are only allowed to have 3 kids without a license. I know for a fact she is not licensed. I did go over things with her when she was thinking about starting her own childcare business.

At the bus stop, (I am there for my kids as well) she crosses over a very busy street (that she doesn't need to cross because she lives on the same side as the bus stop) she only crosses the street to talk to other moms who are at the bus stop. Two buses stop here, one (our bus stops on the side where she lives, the other on the opposite side). She doesn't have control of these kids. She is trying to cross a very busy street carrying a baby while pushing a stroller and trying to keep 3 other kids from running ahead.

To top it off, she didn't have her own 2 yr old and 4 yr old yesterday at the bus stop. I asked her where her kids were, she said at home. She gave them permission to stay home. She said her hubby was supposed to be helping her but he got called in to work. Her house is not seen from the bus stop. She lives on main street and she has to walk about 1/2 block to the next street and then turn down and walk another 1/2 block to get to the bus stop. I don't know what to do.

While we are friends, she always does what she wants and doesn't care about anyone/anything else.

Last edited by Blackcat31; 03-10-2015 at 11:03 AM.
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Old 03-10-2015, 08:41 AM
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That is INSANELY crazy and unsafe. I'd have been on the phone to CPS and/or Licensing the moment I saw it. Friend or not, she is risking not only her own children's safety, but the safety of others as well. Please, make that call today
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Old 03-10-2015, 08:46 AM
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That is INSANELY crazy and unsafe. I'd have been on the phone to CPS and/or Licensing the moment I saw it. Friend or not, she is risking not only her own children's safety, but the safety of others as well. Please, make that call today
wow if she makes unsafe choices like that and she is caring for children, she needs a smack over her head.

I feel for you that you are stuck in a situation like this where this is your friend, but as CFQI said, think about the safety of all those children. NOT GOOD.

Plus, if and when something does happen, all daycares take the hit of getting looked down on. We all suffer for others mistakes. we see it happen all the time.

I hope you can build the courage and make the call. I don't think at this point takling to her about it is going to work.
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Old 03-10-2015, 08:46 AM
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Why would someone bash you? You are not the one leaving kids unattended.
I would think this should be reported to child protection and licensing agency though.
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Old 03-10-2015, 09:16 AM
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You need to make that call.
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Old 03-10-2015, 09:20 AM
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Originally Posted by Unregistered View Post
I am a registered user but for this post I'd like to remain anonymous. I know I will probably get bashed for this post by some of the members here. However, I am very concerned about these children. My friend, quit her job (too stressful and an 1 1/2 hr commute just one way) She has 3 kids of her own. 1 in kindergarten (half day), 1 who is 4 yrs old and 1 who is 2 yrs old. She just started her childcare last week. Here is where I am concerned. She picks up her son at the bus stop after school plus another boy who is also in kindergarten. She brings with her, a stroller with a child under 1 yr old, another child under 1 who she carries while pushing the stroller, and 3 other kids who range between 3 and 4 yrs old. She is watching 6 kids plus her own 3. In PA, we are only allowed to have 3 kids without a license. I know for a fact she is not licensed. I did go over things with her when she was thinking about starting her own childcare business. At the bus stop, (I am there for my kids as well) she crosses over a very busy street (that she doesn't need to cross because she lives on the same side as the bus stop) she only crosses the street to talk to other moms who are at the bus stop. Two buses stop here, one (our bus stops on the side where she lives, the other on the opposite side). She doesn't have control of these kids. She is trying to cross a very busy street carrying a baby while pushing a stroller and trying to keep 3 other kids from running ahead. To top it off, she didn't have her own 2 yr old and 4 yr old yesterday at the bus stop. I asked her where her kids were, she said at home. She gave them permission to stay home. She said her hubby was supposed to be helping her but he got called in to work. Her house is not seen from the bus stop. She lives on main street and she has to walk about 1/2 block to the next street and then turn down and walk another 1/2 block to get to the bus stop. I don't know what to do. While we are friends, she always does what she wants and doesn't care about anyone/anything else.
If this woman wasn't your friend, would you report her?
friends don't let friends do stupid things, please do something to put a stop to this before someone gets hurt!
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Old 03-10-2015, 09:25 AM
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You need to report her for being over limit. Leaving her 2 & 4 yr olds at home is child endangerment too. I realize it could get messy if she realizes you called, but a child's life is more important.
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Old 03-10-2015, 09:30 AM
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You need to report her for being over limit. Leaving her 2 & 4 yr olds at home is child endangerment too. I realize it could get messy if she realizes you called, but a child's life is more important.
Exactly, you need to call.
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Old 03-10-2015, 09:37 AM
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I would not be so concerned with the ratios, but leaving to kids 4 and under at home by themselves?! No way! What if there was a fire or the four year old just decided to leave? My head spins at all the bad things that could happen! She sounds like a person who has to learn things the hard way and it is better if that hard way is a check from dhs or cps, rather than a child dying while in her care.
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Old 03-10-2015, 09:54 AM
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I see no bashing here. I'm sure you know we love you. My question, aside from being legally a mandated reporter and knowing you "should" report her. Could you live with yourself if her house caught fire and her 4yr old had to get her two yr old out but failed? Could you live with yourself if one of the kids jumped into traffic and you knew it was a possibility but didn't want to make waves.
It's no different than if she put them all in the bed of a pickup truck and drove to the stop. With her arms full of babies she is physically unable
To control the others.
Dont kid yourself. She knows it's wrong.

Also, the other moms at stop see her. They see how unprofessional she is and THATS the stigma we, as home providers, fight every single day in every state in this nation.
Are you "friends" or acquaintances ?
If you're friends, and she is back safe at home, and you want her to stop but not bust her, let her know.
"Michelle, it's wrong. It's dangerous. And I AM REQUIRED to report you. Don't make me choose between our friendship and this situation. The kids safety is always going to be my priority. "
Leave the ball in her court. She is the one who is wrong. Your only fault was not reporting this morning. No bashing from me. It's a tough situation. One I've wrestled with myself a time or two. I think we all have if we stay in this field very long.
Good luck. And gentle hugs going your way.
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Old 03-10-2015, 10:18 AM
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I agree you need to do something. Depending on how much of a friend she is I would either tell her as above or if not so much a friend I would call CPS. They can decide if it needs to go to licensing. I do see being over ratio as an issue if she is crossing busy streets and has more than she can control though.
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Old 03-10-2015, 10:25 AM
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At least make an anonymous report if nothing else. Think I'd the safety of those children!
And if something did happen, you are now liable because you knew what was happening and didn't report it.
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Old 03-10-2015, 10:33 AM
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Walking with little kids can be difficult, especially if they don't follow the rules (or if there aren't any). I worry when walking with kids that age, even though mine follow the rules, because they are so unpredictable! They could be walking nicely holding the stroller, then see something shiny and dart off to pick it up.

I only have to walk down 2 houses to my daughter's bus stop, but we do not have sidewalks and it stresses me out with the kids! Not just the walk, but then getting them to stand nicely at the corner until the bus comes. For this reason I changed my opening time so I don't have to bring kids. They are too unpredictable for me at this age!

So my point is, if her hands are completely full, holding one child while pushing a stroller, how is she going to stop anyone if they decide to dart off into the busy road?

Then the leaving 2 young kids home? I don't even have to say anything about that.

I would mention something to her like another poster said.
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Old 03-10-2015, 10:39 AM
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Originally Posted by CraftyMom View Post
Walking with little kids can be difficult, especially if they don't follow the rules (or if there aren't any). I worry when walking with kids that age, even though mine follow the rules, because they are so unpredictable! They could be walking nicely holding the stroller, then see something shiny and dart off to pick it up.

I only have to walk down 2 houses to my daughter's bus stop, but we do not have sidewalks and it stresses me out with the kids! Not just the walk, but then getting them to stand nicely at the corner until the bus comes. For this reason I changed my opening time so I don't have to bring kids. They are too unpredictable for me at this age!

So my point is, if her hands are completely full, holding one child while pushing a stroller, how is she going to stop anyone if they decide to dart off into the busy road?

Then the leaving 2 young kids home? I don't even have to say anything about that.

I would mention something to her like another poster said.
I get that walking with kids is hard but this lady is specifically crossing a busy road just to talk with other parents. The bus she needs to get kids from is on her side of the street.
I have issues with that.
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Old 03-10-2015, 10:58 AM
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I get that walking with kids is hard but this lady is specifically crossing a busy road just to talk with other parents. The bus she needs to get kids from is on her side of the street.
I have issues with that.
I am not saying she is right, I am saying she is wrong.

I meant how does SHE expect to stop a child if they dart off into a busy road? I get stressed on my quiet street going 2 houses down. All these visions are going through my head of a child running off into the busy road and she can not stop them because her hands are full.
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Old 03-10-2015, 11:02 AM
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When I took my kids for walks we always used "safety straps"small velcro straps around wrist tied to the stroller.Every child looked forward to the day they could walk holding on with their strap. I think I would have a talk with her about leaving children home alone.Based on how that conversation went I would think about reporting her. It always amazes me to think what are the parents thinking leaving that many children.
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Old 03-10-2015, 01:50 PM
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I am usually ALWAYS on the side of, "Mind your own business, and stay out of it." But with this situation- NO. From the moment I read the post I was fearful of what could happen here. I would report this immediately.
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Old 03-10-2015, 02:20 PM
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I am usually ALWAYS on the side of, "Mind your own business, and stay out of it." But with this situation- NO. From the moment I read the post I was fearful of what could happen here. I would report this immediately.
I was thinking the same thing...ordinarily, I would say, "Live and let live" but this woman needs to be stopped before something happens to one of those kids. It may not be an easy thing for you to do but you really should report her.
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Old 03-10-2015, 02:32 PM
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this could be a life or death situation
Call
or least talk to you and say if she doesnt make the changes Call
take your time and use words gently mabe a few sugestions like hire some help ??
and do fast
again life or death !!!!!!
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Old 03-10-2015, 02:37 PM
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I am usually ALWAYS on the side of, "Mind your own business, and stay out of it." But with this situation- NO. From the moment I read the post I was fearful of what could happen here. I would report this immediately.
Agreed. I do not believe this case a warrants "talking to her" or "maybe" reporting. As a mandated reporter it is the OP's mandated obligation to report this immediately. I feel the OP KNOWS this is the right thing to do and may just be seeking validation
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Old 03-10-2015, 02:38 PM
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You could request a "welfare check". I would specify the times.
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Old 03-10-2015, 04:13 PM
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Agreed. I do not believe this case a warrants "talking to her" or "maybe" reporting. As a mandated reporter it is the OP's mandated obligation to report this immediately. I feel the OP KNOWS this is the right thing to do and may just be seeking validation


It's very likely that "talking to her" may very well just lead her to leave even more children at home alone.

I would report her. I would not do it anonymously. I would hold my head high after I did it, too. Doing the right thing is nothing to be ashamed of.
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Old 03-10-2015, 04:19 PM
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I would hold my head high after I did it, too. Doing the right thing is nothing to be ashamed of.
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Old 03-10-2015, 04:22 PM
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I am not saying she is right, I am saying she is wrong.

I meant how does SHE expect to stop a child if they dart off into a busy road? I get stressed on my quiet street going 2 houses down. All these visions are going through my head of a child running off into the busy road and she can not stop them because her hands are full.
Oh
I thought you meant that kids are hard to control on a walk so you don't blame her for that aspect
Oops
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Old 03-10-2015, 04:33 PM
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Oh
I thought you meant that kids are hard to control on a walk so you don't blame her for that aspect
Oops
When I reread it I see that it sounded that way oops
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Old 03-10-2015, 04:36 PM
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We are all mandated reporters...I've always taken that to mean in terms of our own daycare kids and parents. While I do think this woman should be turned in, is the OP a mandated reporter in this case? If it had to do with her own daycare kids then absolutely she would be a mandated reporter, but in a case where it has nothing to do with her own daycare is she still a mandated reporter?
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Old 03-10-2015, 05:45 PM
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We are all mandated reporters...I've always taken that to mean in terms of our own daycare kids and parents. While I do think this woman should be turned in, is the OP a mandated reporter in this case? If it had to do with her own daycare kids then absolutely she would be a mandated reporter, but in a case where it has nothing to do with her own daycare is she still a mandated reporter?
Yes. She is mandated to report it.
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Old 03-10-2015, 08:57 PM
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Always thought we were mandated to report ANY suspected abuse or neglect but was just told at a class put on by child protection and dc licensing that it relates ONLY to children in our care.
Which does not mean that it can't be reported. It seems appropriate and necessary to report this case. There may be no one else who realizes those children are alone.
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Old 03-10-2015, 09:16 PM
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Always thought we were mandated to report ANY suspected abuse or neglect but was just told at a class put on by child protection and dc licensing that it relates ONLY to children in our care.
Which does not mean that it can't be reported. It seems appropriate and necessary to report this case. There may be no one else who realizes those children are alone.
I've always been taught that it's any child regardless if they are in our care or not.
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Old 03-11-2015, 03:14 AM
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Always thought we were mandated to report ANY suspected abuse or neglect but was just told at a class put on by child protection and dc licensing that it relates ONLY to children in our care.
Which does not mean that it can't be reported. It seems appropriate and necessary to report this case. There may be no one else who realizes those children are alone.
I've been told a similar thing - we are mandated to report what happens during our business hours to our dc kids. Our presenter (A NYSP investigator) even gave an example of seeing a client on a weekend behave toward their child in an abusive fashion - and NOT being mandated to report that. He did point out that we had a moral obligation though.

But I do cringe when the mandated reporter card is played, because often it's made to seem as though it's like a 007 - anytime, anywhere, with implied threats to the OP that "if you don't..." In our state there are two numbers to call, one is IF you are a mandated reporter in THAT case and the second is for the general public. We were told we can only call the mandated reporter line when we were actually "on" as a mandated reporter.

And honestly, leaving YOUR OWN kids home to pop to the bus stop (while STUPID considering the ages) wouldn't be considered abuse or neglect in most states - especially if they don't have laws regarding the ages kids could be home alone. We had a woman leave her sleeping kids home while she supposedly ran to a neighbors to borrow sugar, while she was gone the home caught fire, killing her kids. She was NOT charged for leaving the kids home alone. Even though popular opinion wanted her to hang, there is no law in my state about ages of kids being left alone, so there is some precedence here.

I would be more inclined to turn her into licensing for operating illegally. That IS something she will get in trouble for.
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Old 03-11-2015, 05:13 AM
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Another thing I was thinking of...OP are you absolutely SURE she doesn't have a license? Perhaps she didn't but then decided to get licensed at some point? If she is licensed then would she still be over in numbers? (I'm not sure what your ratios are there)

I'm not defending her, I would just want to be sure before turning her in, then finding out she had a license.

She would still be wrong for leaving her kids home alone
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Old 03-11-2015, 05:33 AM
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http://lancasteronline.com/news/loca...a4bcf6878.html

The OP's state is one where there is no minimum age set. They do consider it on a case by case basis - especially if the parent has other issues as this article states. While I do think the OP's friend is WRONG to leave her kids home alone - if she is in fact doing so, it may not be the "slam dunk" many think it is.
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Old 03-11-2015, 06:15 AM
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I did make the call. They said they will look into it. However, yesterday, her hubby picked up the kids at the bus stop. His work schedule varies so I'm not sure how often he will be doing that. He stays on the same side of the street and doesn't cross over unnecessarily.
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Old 03-11-2015, 06:26 AM
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I did make the call. They said they will look into it. However, yesterday, her hubby picked up the kids at the bus stop. His work schedule varies so I'm not sure how often he will be doing that. He stays on the same side of the street and doesn't cross over unnecessarily.


I think the worst part of the walking is her crossing that busy street with all those kids for no reason other than to talk to other moms, where her attention will not be on the kids while doing so. She's making a bad situation worse unnecessarily. Doing so also makes the whole trip take longer, extending the time her kids are at home.

Risking the lives of children to talk to other moms
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Old 03-11-2015, 07:25 AM
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I did make the call. They said they will look into it. However, yesterday, her hubby picked up the kids at the bus stop. His work schedule varies so I'm not sure how often he will be doing that. He stays on the same side of the street and doesn't cross over unnecessarily.
At minimum someone may drop by one day to check on things and it may be a day that she doesn't leave any of the kids at home alone and there will be nothing suspicious. HOWEVER it will put that seed of doubt in her head and that feeling that she is being watched so she will hopefully think twice about leaving her children home alone like that. You did what you could for the sake of the children's safety, that's all you can do. Leave it up to CPS to decide whether they show up to check and whether they decide to ask if she has a license and to report her if they find that she doesn't.

I'm a little surprised at the ladies here who have been trained that you are only mandated to report suspected abuse during daycare hours for the children in your care only. I'm in CA and I have been a mandated reporter since high school and I have always been trained that I am always mandated to report no matter where I am and who's child it is. I guess different officials interpret the laws differently. Looks like it's just like licensing .
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Old 03-11-2015, 07:53 AM
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At minimum someone may drop by one day to check on things and it may be a day that she doesn't leave any of the kids at home alone and there will be nothing suspicious. HOWEVER it will put that seed of doubt in her head and that feeling that she is being watched so she will hopefully think twice about leaving her children home alone like that. You did what you could for the sake of the children's safety, that's all you can do. Leave it up to CPS to decide whether they show up to check and whether they decide to ask if she has a license and to report her if they find that she doesn't.

I'm a little surprised at the ladies here who have been trained that you are only mandated to report suspected abuse during daycare hours for the children in your care only. I'm in CA and I have been a mandated reporter since high school and I have always been trained that I am always mandated to report no matter where I am and who's child it is. I guess different officials interpret the laws differently. Looks like it's just like licensing .
I'm surprised by that as well. Actually my state law is that every citizen is a mandated reporter. It's every citizens "duty" under the law and then "required" by professionals in fields such as ours.
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Old 03-11-2015, 08:06 AM
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Quote:
I'm a little surprised at the ladies here who have been trained that you are only mandated to report suspected abuse during daycare hours for the children in your care only. I'm in CA and I have been a mandated reporter since high school and I have always been trained that I am always mandated to report no matter where I am and who's child it is. I guess different officials interpret the laws differently. Looks like it's just like licensing
The way it was explained to me is that I am legally mandated to report during day care hours, for my dc kids. In *that* case, and that case *only* can I be held liable for NOT reporting. Obviously that doesn't cover moral or ethical responsibility

But I was specifically speaking to what I consider a common theme on this forum - when someone posts something similar to the OP, the "mandated reporter" card is played. More bothersome than that to me, is the subtle threats *I* sometimes perceive from some posters "you are a mandated reporter, and if you don't report it you will be found out" because we know some people on this forum taking pride in finding that kind of thing out, even when posting anon.

I don't believe the OP had a *legal* responsibility to call. I am GLAD she did.

Honestly think that when the "friend" told her she had left the kids home while she went to the bus stop or when the OP saw her crossing the street unsafely she should have said something immediately then. "Susan! I can't believe you would leave your kids home alone! That is so unsafe!" or even "Susan, I just want to tell you that it looks terribly unsafe when you have all the kids at the bus stop. Some of the other moms have even commented on it. Have you got your license yet? You have way too many kids if not. Our state is very strict about that."
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Old 03-11-2015, 08:29 AM
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The way it was explained to me is that I am legally mandated to report during day care hours, for my dc kids. In *that* case, and that case *only* can I be held liable for NOT reporting. Obviously that doesn't cover moral or ethical responsibility

But I was specifically speaking to what I consider a common theme on this forum - when someone posts something similar to the OP, the "mandated reporter" card is played. More bothersome than that to me, is the subtle threats *I* sometimes perceive from some posters "you are a mandated reporter, and if you don't report it you will be found out" because we know some people on this forum taking pride in finding that kind of thing out, even when posting anon.

I don't believe the OP had a *legal* responsibility to call. I am GLAD she did.

Honestly think that when the "friend" told her she had left the kids home while she went to the bus stop or when the OP saw her crossing the street unsafely she should have said something immediately then. "Susan! I can't believe you would leave your kids home alone! That is so unsafe!" or even "Susan, I just want to tell you that it looks terribly unsafe when you have all the kids at the bus stop. Some of the other moms have even commented on it. Have you got your license yet? You have way too many kids if not. Our state is very strict about that."
I don't think reminding people that they are a mandated reporter is pulling a " card ".
It's serious. Not everyone knows that if know about something that is report worthy, you can be held liable. Officials may never find out, but it can happen. I know someone who it happened to. They didn't report but knew what was going on. They ended up getting slammed.
I think it this is something that needs to be taken very seriously.

The op made it sound like these kids were being put in danger for no necessary reason. If she is questioning weather she should make a call or no, she probably should. Worst comes to worst, they tell her it isn't report worthy. At least she did her part and is off the hook if anything were to come up.

Eta: in all my trainings and classes (one being a semester long child abuse class) I have always been told that as you mandated reporter, you are always required to report. It isn't dependent upon location or hours or specific children.
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Old 03-11-2015, 09:30 AM
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It depends on the tone of the reminder, IMO.
And liability in *my* state is during work hours with our kids or clients. Both in my former job as a Service Coordinator for disabled adults and this current job, that has been made very clear to us. Again, I am NOT speaking to the moral/ethical point here, simply the fact that the OP would likely NOT be held legally liable for something that didn't happen in her program, with her kids, or that she even witnessed first hand.

At this point the OP has made the call. It will be looked into and the chips will fall where they may.

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Originally Posted by jenboo View Post
I don't think reminding people that they are a mandated reporter is pulling a " card ".
It's serious. Not everyone knows that if know about something that is report worthy, you can be held liable. Officials may never find out, but it can happen. I know someone who it happened to. They didn't report but knew what was going on. They ended up getting slammed.
I think it this is something that needs to be taken very seriously.

The op made it sound like these kids were being put in danger for no necessary reason. If she is questioning weather she should make a call or no, she probably should. Worst comes to worst, they tell her it isn't report worthy. At least she did her part and is off the hook if anything were to come up.

Eta: in all my trainings and classes (one being a semester long child abuse class) I have always been told that as you mandated reporter, you are always required to report. It isn't dependent upon location or hours or specific children.
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Old 03-11-2015, 09:57 AM
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I did make the call. They said they will look into it. However, yesterday, her hubby picked up the kids at the bus stop. His work schedule varies so I'm not sure how often he will be doing that. He stays on the same side of the street and doesn't cross over unnecessarily.
You did the right thing!
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Old 03-11-2015, 10:57 AM
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You need to report her for being over limit. Leaving her 2 & 4 yr olds at home is child endangerment too. I realize it could get messy if she realizes you called, but a child's life is more important.


All those other moms saw her, too. Anyone could call, so she won't necessarily know it's you. Please do the right thing, and DON'T feel guilty about it. Think about how awful you'd feel if something happened.
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Old 03-11-2015, 11:41 AM
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http://lancasteronline.com/news/loca...a4bcf6878.html

The OP's state is one where there is no minimum age set. They do consider it on a case by case basis - especially if the parent has other issues as this article states. While I do think the OP's friend is WRONG to leave her kids home alone - if she is in fact doing so, it may not be the "slam dunk" many think it is.
Hmmmm.....since the OP posted "anon" we wouldn't have known where she was from. Now we do..... not sure she wanted us to know that though, hence the reason for posting "anon".

Nevertheless, I do not think that would actually apply to a two year old and a four year old. I am certain the local authorities would take issue with it, due to the very young ages.

I am glad the OP decided to call. Hopefully her mind is at ease now.

EDITED: My apologies....I have since learned that I missed in the OP that she states where she lives.
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Old 03-11-2015, 11:49 AM
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Hmmmm.....since the OP posted "anon" we wouldn't have known where she was from. Now we do..... not sure she wanted us to know that though, hence the reason for posting "anon".

Nevertheless, I do not think that would actually apply to a two year old and a four year old. I am certain the local authorities would take issue with it, due to the very young ages.

I am glad the OP decided to call. Hopefully her mind is at ease now.
My first thought, too, but it does say in her post she's in PA.

Mandated or not (seems to depend on the state as far as the definition of that) I'm glad it was called in as well.
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Old 03-11-2015, 11:51 AM
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My first thought, too, but it does say in her post she's in PA.

Mandated or not (seems to depend on the state as far as the definition of that) I'm glad it was called in as well.
Awww.....thanks for the clarification. I missed that in the OP.
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Old 03-11-2015, 12:32 PM
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Awww.....thanks for the clarification. I missed that in the OP.
I didn't.
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