Ugh... I think this whole thread has taken a wrong turn...

All that I have to say is remember that we all need to play nice!

To all parties in this situation, please try to see things from both sides as a parent and as the provider.

I am so sorry that everyone has had to go threw this situation and hope that it stays civil.

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The OP never used names of anyone. There is nothing identifying you (or her) as to who you are, so she did not divulge anything that was confidential.

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its like the kid with the guilty conscience....lol

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I got an email from someone who saw my CL post giving me a heads up that I was being talked about. Obviously there is identifying information.

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HMM sounds like my 14yr old stepson!!!!!

The case will be dropped by the court, cause it's a waste of their time.

Your child slapped and adult.

Disrespectful and down right wrong.

My own kids have never laid a hand on anyone. So she must have learned it from someone?!!?

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well you obviously have terrible two amnesia! I can't believe how viscious you all are being, and how much time you have on your hands. Bravo!

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The only identifying info in the whole topic was YOUR post on Craig's List where YOU identified HER.

No one here knows your name, your child's name, the OP's name (until YOU put it on Craig's List) or where in the state you even live so, no there was nothing that identified you writen on this thread.

If you see differently, please let me know and I will gladly delete it or lock the thread.

You posted your child's name AND the providers name in your original post so I edited it out so that your identity remained unknown.

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I'm trying really hard to not point out that this is the pot calling the kettle black.

Ma'am, I'm very sorry you're feeling hurt and disrespected right now, but honestly, most three year olds who are in a scary/strange/new/threatening situation are just going to burst into tears/cower in a corner/collapse in a sad puddle of preschooler goo. They are *not* going to haul off and hit someone new *in the face*, let alone run around kicking other children. Even at the angriest, I haven't even had my own daughter or nephew hit me like that, nor run around kicking people. Children do save their worst behavior for the people they know the best, because it's safest. For a child to hit someone new, an unknown quantity, represents a major problem. Perhaps it was a normal stress response for your daughter--but that does place her in the minority.

While some/many of us have dealt with children who lash out in anger, not everyone is willing or able to deal with such a thing. Would you prefer that the provider call you immediately upon feeling that a situation is beyond their capability? Or would you prefer that the provider try to muddle through, possibly losing their temper and yelling at, or even hurting, your child? (OP, i'm NOT saying that you would have done such a thing).

Perhaps with your child's next caregiver, you could consider a drop-off time that is before lunch, thus easing the transition from you to nap-time.

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Well thanks moderator for letting people attack a mother about her parenting abilities. My ad on CL was to make sure that if ANYONE else has an energetic 3 year old, they don't make the same mistake that I did. That is all. This thread is downright bashing me AND my amazing daughter.

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I though you said she was 3yrs?
doesnt matter anyway, slapping an adult is not ok.

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I have been reading these posts since yesterday. And I also read your post on craigslist.

Here is my 2 cents;

You said “She gets a little COOKY around nap time” did you provide this information to this provider?

You said “She is not quite over the "terrible twos" yet” did you provide this information to the provider?

You said “My daughter is amazing” but then you say she is COOKY and is not over the terrible two’s, so your amazing daughter HIT a stranger?????

There is NO provider that would allow a child to HIT THEM! You should have apologized to this provider.

And a good parent would have NEVER taken their child the FIRST day right at nap. A good parent would have asked the provider to accept the child at least 2 hours before nap and paid a little extra daycare fees.

You sound like a parent that has let her child’s behavior get out of hand and makes excuses for her and likes to BLAME other people.

I would have called you TO and demanded you picked up the child too!!

I would NEVER allow a child to hit me!

It is sad to see parents allowing children to hit an adult and blame it on nap time or being in a strange place. You child should KNOW the routine of NAP TIME, she is 3 and understands!!

And I would be very careful about slandering someone on CL, your post can be traced back to your IP address and using someone name on CL can get you sued!

And now you are threating to sue this provider....lol....over what? She never said any personal information about you.....YOU DID THAT ALL BY YOURSELF ON CRAIGSLIST!

Hope you got a few thousand dollars laying around to give to your lawyer for a retainer fee!!

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Hey look! It's the forum cycle!

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Well I am already in touch with my worker and licensor so thats that. Goodbye

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Why did you take her at nap time? If you KNEW she had a hard time with it, why take her then? Why not drop her off earlier so she had more time to get used to everything. Terrible twos is NOT a good enough reason to EVER hit someone. EVER. I would not allow a child to hit me. It is just not acceptable, not in my house and apparently not in her house either. Think about the things you could have done differently to stop it before it even started because you, as the PARENT should have realized what YOUR child could and couldn't handle. Step up and be the PARENT, allowing your child to hit an adult is NOT acceptable. If she can't handle simple instrustions then maybe your best bet would be to become a stay at home mom.

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This is soooooooooooooooooooo stupid. Get over this and drop it. Seriously.

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Some of us don't have that luxury.

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Who is to say this unregistered is even the lady??

Is it the cycle time? that is so funny...cuz it is!

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Confidentiality being broken because of a thread that has NO identifying factors??? I don't think so


A disgruntled parent publicly SLANDERING a daycare on Craigslist??? YEP

I'd be picking my battles wisely!

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I have a copy of your craigslist post where you identified this provider by business name if you need it.

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Well now with your ad you have put the providers and centers in your area on notice to keep a look out for a Mom with a new three year old girl who is still in the "terrible twos"... who is cocky at nap... who hits when feeling threatened... and who's parents are having "cost and billing" issues with their previous center.

You can put "amazing" words on this all you would like but they are only for you. They don't go past you. They are what YOU need to say and YOU need to feel but they won't fly with anyone else.

They are just words.

What any business or provider is going to read is that you have a three year old who is behaving violently... a parent who makes word excuses... and someone who got booted out of a business because they owe them a bunch of money.

Your "amazing" words won't be able to convince them otherwise. You've done a good job forewarning but not to your intended audience.

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You DO realize that your "worker" and your "licensor" will have FULL access to the center you just came from? They will have full knowledge of your kids behavior AND... your "billing" issue. Remember that just as THEY are just a phone call away for you... you and your child's behavior history is just a phone call away too.

They will have the whole thing figured out in less than five minutes because they have BTDT.

The sad part for you is that you won't be able to see the on the worker and licensor when they hear about your "amazing" child and her "terrible two" behavior. You won't be able to see their face when they find out how much you are behind at the other place and the TRUTH of why you left there in the first place.

See they do this for a living and you are the ten thousandth parent who has used special words for their special childs special behavior. They have heard every story in the book about your "billing" issues. Not a single word shall pass your lips that they haven't heard in the exact same inflection with the exact same words. You didn't come up with something unique. You are saying the same thing in the same way and retaliating in the same way all those before you have done who have an out of control kid and don't pay their bill.

In the end this will pass for the provider but you will be left with a big fat bill and a kid who goes thru providers like paper towels. You will be in this same spot again and again and again. The provider will make sure she doesn't make the mistake of you again... but you... you will keep making the same mistake because you refuse to see your part.

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I've decided to re-open this thread. I've removed the Link to the Craig’s List ad that seemed to bother some members. Everything here is public and open for debate and I think this thread has some great opposing viewpoints that will be helpful now and in the future of "search" topics. If anyone has issue with this you can PM me.

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I'm glad you did. I was very interested to see what others had to say.

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I agree! I think parents and providers need to address this type of situation and know what the right way is to handle it.

I am NOT saying anything towards the parent or provider in this thread but to parents and providers in general.

There are far to many vents on this forum about how to handle out of control children and parents who back up the behavior with excuses for it and do nothing to help change the negative behaviors.

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you hit the nail on the head. There is way too many out of control kids, I see it all the time at the mall, or restaurants (2 weeks ago at subway dh and I, and my kids saw a 9 yr old slap his mother because he didn't get mayo on his sub) and parents are making way too many excuses, instead of just saying, "let me see if we can fix it"

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:d :d

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And what did she do or say?

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Wow. After reading this entire thread, the only thing I am left with is this: Anger makes people say and do many things they later regret. I read a quote somewhere that went something like this: "Holding on to anger is like drinking poison and expecting the person you're angry at to die." I think both provider and parent made VERY avoidable mistakes. Neither is "right", neither is "wrong". We all make mistakes. I hope both the OP and the parent can let go of their anger and part ways without further incident and be less concerned with themselves and more concerned with what's best for the child. Its too bad all the anger we vent can't be converted to anger at poverty, hunger and homelessness among children. I know this was off topic, just my small, insignificant way of trying to help both provider and parent heal their hurt and anger. Peace.

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I deleted the link you posted. This is the second time in this thread you have posted something that doesn't make sense to the thread.

Your other one was: Hmmmm..... smile.... nod..... back away slowly......

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I just read this thread. HOLY FREAKING MOLEY!!! WOW.
What are the chances that the mother of the child would be contacted about this thread???!
Who would've contacted her about this??? & why?? What good would that do???

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I wasnt trying to post the link... as for the other one its called trying to use humor... this thread needed some at the time! Maybe i should leave all together... oh wait no then id be playing right into the theme of where this is all going anyway

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One thing I've learned about the internet, since 1994, is the world is a lot smaller because it. The internet is like the electricity that finally got Frankenstein on it's feet.

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Now i remember... i put the word guys in bold because the line was thanking all the ladies for support!

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One of the posters here contacted her thru the craigslist ad.

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Michael..... speaking of the net

Can you tell me when average people were able to put video up on the internet?

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Where is it going?

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LOL i have no idea. Sorry blame the loratap... i need to go lay down

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average people?? Well if you mean a user-friendly app or website - 2004
FYI - Youtube.com was Created on..............: 2005-02-14

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Is that how she found this board? Why on earth would any one of us give her a link to this thread?

I got confused after that too...I'm still a little confused.

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Nothing posted online is safe anyway

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Frankly, unless you actually know who it was, my bet is on someone who lurks here following the link to the CL ad and emailing her through there. One of the people who is/posts as unregistered just to stir the pot and enjoy the ruckus.

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ditto this...I agree it was a troll that wanted to stir the pot...

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To the mother- parenting is hard and hopefully you see this whole ordeal as a learning opportunity. Yes, every parent here makes mistakes and i do not know of ANY provider that has perfect children. Your child does not feel like their role is to be a child but as a leader. To me this is a huge and the most common mistakes that parents make today. Three year olds make poor leaders. Let go of the whole thing. You are doing nothing but embarassing yourself and announcing that you have an out of control child and owe a daycare center money. Just move on and find a good counselor that can work with you on solving these issues. You and your daughter will be all the happier for it.

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This is probably the most realistic post, yet.

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Agreed. And i agree with the one before as well, none of us have perfect children. We all have problems, but those dont need to be broadcast to much

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Yes you are right. I didn't mean posters as in regular posters. I meant "users".

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I just don't get it. Why can't people just respond and let it go. Why does someone have to go send this link to the mom.... Was it really neccessary? I thought we were supposed to be "Minnesota Nice". Guess not.

OP- I hope you can move on past this and continue providing great care! I hope this all blows over and you can relax a bit, I'm sure this was super stressful on you.

To the mom- take it as a lesson learned. Parenting is hard as h e double hockey sticks, none of our children are the perfect angels we'd like them to be. Correct the wrongs and move on. But don't be so low as to bash your previous provider on CL. That is just rude and makes you look 10x's worse.

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My thoughts? We can't say for sure who notified the mom about this thread or why but I say why not? I think we must all know that nothing that we post online is confidential. Once it's posted, it's posted and free for the world to see and use as they choose. The idea of it possibly being a troll is a possibility but also Michael did mention that he removed the link to the CL ad that "seemed to bother some members". If you take it literal that means that more than one members were upset by it. The only reasoning that makes sense to me is that people became upset because the OP posted the link to the ad and asked forum members to flag it.

Personally I don't see anything wrong with that, it's the fastest way to get CL to take the ad down. If she would have contacted CL on her own it could have taken days for CL to contact her back and that could have been damaging to her business.

I know posters have mentioned that mistakes were made but I'm not sure what the OP's mistakes were. She was slapped in the face and she has no tolerance for hitting so she decided to term the child, she was well within her rights and I see no mistake there. She then contacts the parent to have the child picked up and all of the child's emergency contacts and one by one they don't answer until she gets a hold of the sister. I'm sure that by that time the provider was upset because of the fact that the parent and all but one emergency contact were unreachable. I'm sure she was short and possibly curt to the sister and the sister took it as being irrational or however she put it. She was frustrated, I can see that. Is that her "mistake"?

The only other thing that I can think of that could be her "mistake" is coming here and asking for advice and support and posting about her situation. I don't see this as a mistake per say because she didn't tell us any personal information about the family. No names, no address, not even the city or state where she is in. She came here for consultation advice from people who have experience in this field. I just can't see that her telling us what happened to her as a mistake either.

The mom on the other hand did go on CL and posted an ad slandering her business (I did not see the ad, I just read that she did). Apparently she put her name and address in it an everything. She even came on here and posted the providers name in her response (which was removed by a moderator). THAT is a mistake. One that hopefully has done no damage and hopefully that mom won't really sue over (I just can't see it being smart on the mom's end and difficult for her to win).

Although I didn't see the CL ad I did notice that there are now 2 ads in response to the ad, I'm assuming that both are from members on this forum.

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Wow. Ok, my short and sweet take, OP, I wouldn't tolerate being slapped across the face by a child (or anyone else for that matter), and dcm, all we can do is teach our children the difference between right and wrong, and apologize for our childrens mistakes when they cannot. Take responsibility for your children. It is our job as parents to do so. Not your daycare providers job.

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But, that's what this forum is for.

The only actual mistake I can think of is accepting a child at nap time. I think it's thoughtless on the parts of the adults to take a kid at the beginning of a stressful part of a first day.

The child is old enough to know better. It's not expecting too much from her.

I don't believe the "mom" when she says "the daycare center let her get up after 15 minutes". I think either she's lying, or they lied to mom, and she's just gullible.

I also don't believe it was a "billing" issue. <--riiight... and the reason all the people still sitting in a park "occupying wall street" is because they are the victims.

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Well this is just me, but I would never interview one day and start the next. I am always suspicious of people wanting to start immediately. 9 times out of 10 that means that they were kicked out of the last daycare. If there was a "mistake" made, it might have been that the OP did not ask enough questions to learn the previous situations at other daycares. I still feel that the OP did do the right thing in immediate termination.

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And I totally agree. The best thing to do when you're not sure what to do is to reach out for help and that's what happened here.

I can see what you mean about the naptime thing but I guess because I've never experienced it, I've never really thought about it as an issue. I've had a client that started work at 1pm (right in the middle of my naptime) and since day 1 she dropped DCG off right before 12pm (when naptime starts). I never had an issue with the girl not wanting to lay down but then again the little girl was on the same nap schedule that we were already on and I had met the little girl on 2 other occasions (once during the initial interview and once as a "playdate" interview) so maybe that's why.

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THAT ^^^ is why the failure is on the parent!

The parent should have informed the provider about how her DD gets "kooky" (I think that is the word mom used) about nap time. Ya know, one would think that kind of info would have greatly benefited the provider AND the child.

If a child comes with any little quirks, idiosyncrasies, tips or tricks it would be important to share this info.

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AMEN! That's all I can say to that

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You are right, the nap time drop off was a HUGE, MAJOR mistake. OP, just curious, but why on earth would you agree to a nap time drop off on the first day? Yes, yourtooloud, the dcg IS old enough to know better, but she is probably not old enough to understand why she is being forced to lay down in a strange place, by a strange lady, on a strange mat/cot, with strange kids and demanded a strange schedule be followed. Unrealistic expectations on the part of both parent and provider, IMO.

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I have a kid (now for 3 yrs) that is always dropped off at nap time. He comes at 1pm, I let him play till 130pm and then he goes to bed. He does get up the same time as the others, so even kids who come at nap time still take naps.

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But, were you given the chance to get to know him first? Or was he just brought into your nap time on the very first day?

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Forced?

The child did NOT take a nap.

The child did NOT lay down.

The child wouldn't even sit on the step when waiting for her Mom. When the Mom arrived the child bolted off and flailed and screamed while being put in the car.

She was TOLD to lie down. That's very different than forcing. Having an adult TELL you to lie down and slapping them across the face when they tell you that and put you to lie down is NOT acceptable OR understandable. Going from kid to kid and taking their pillows and kicking them while they are laying down is NOT acceptable or understandable. Running from your Mother out onto the sidewalk and kicking and screaming when she is putting you in the car seat is NOT acceptable or understandable.

Crying while laying down is understandable.
Flailling around on a mat while laying down is understandable.
Talking and even screaming is understandable.

Slapping a stranger adult hard across the face is not. Getting up out of the mat and kicking the other children is not. Refusing to follow directions once you disobeyed is not acceptable.

I think we all need to keep in mind that this provider got this kid out of her house in 35 minutes from the time the child slapped her. The child left the house without a single mark on her. She felt happy and comfortable enough to refuse any directions after she refused to lay down. She felt comfortable enough to refuse to even SIT DOWN on the step. She felt comfortable enough to bolt off down the street and go ballistic on her Mom when she tried to put her in the car seat.

That's not a kid who feels THREATENED and is defending themselves. Once Mama came the threatened child would fall into the Mom in a puddle of tears and wail. They would BOLT to the CAR and climb in to get away from the big bad mean lady who they slapped a half an hour before.

I'm not buying this one bit. Sure they should have planned to have her up and with the provider and kids before expecting her to lie down but in the scheme of things the mistake on both the parent and providers part was teeeeeeeny tiny. Adults ARE allowed to make mistakes with kids that don't harm them in any way.

I think one of the biggest lessons here is that if you don't make sure that every aspect of the interview and intergration process is done properly you can have a deal where within 24 hours of meeting a new client you can have your name blasted publicly and be turned into licensening.

For this provider it wasn't WORTH what she went thru with the Mom, the kid, the NO money, and licenensing.

Next time... interview the client completely. Put some time into making sure they are the right fit. Make SURE you get paid or have proof that you will get paid. Don't take clients who need to start the next day. Make sure you have a probation period for the child and TELL the parent at interview ONE that you do NOT care for kids who are violent to children or adults. That means even if they are "cocky, two year olds, boys, two year old boys, three year old girl who is still in the throes of two year old behavior, and AWESOME amazing" kids... they still can't have a slot in your daycare if they HIT, FIGHT, BITE, PINCH, or otherwise. Tell the parent this upfront so they won't bother to bring their "awesome and amazing" child to you. They aren't going to want to come get them 45 minutes after bringing them because they KNOW their kid is going to be violent when they are told to do something they don't want to do or are told... to even just get in the car.

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It doesn't matter. Telling a kid to lie down is NOT something that is horrible. It's not torture. It's not mean. It's not dangerous. It requires ZERO physical skill. It's something the child has done thousands of times in its life.

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I have been reading this thread and I must agree with nannyde 100%! This provider did not force this child to lie down, nor was she mean about it. She TRIED being nurturing and caring towards this child from the sound of it, but this child clearly had her own agenda.

We as providers need to stop accepting this kind of behavior from both parents and children. What happened to respect and responsibility? This provider was professional about the whole situation, and this parents response is simply childish and just proves nannyde's thoughts on these "entitled" parents who refuse to accept responsibility for the parenting ( or lack thereof) of their "special" children.

Nannyde, I believe you've nailed this situation and parent, right on. Your wisdom from all your experience is greatly appreciated. Providers need to stand up and refuse to tolerate or make excuses for irresponsible parents. Thank you for your courage and wisdom!

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then don't! Nan is right on! Provider did the right thing!

Children today show no respect and it's providers like you that encourage this behavior. Have some common sense to know the difference between respect and abuse.

In this case the provider was being abused. No Go....she did the right thing by terming right off, and I am not a person that would term right away but for this situation yes.

Lets let the adults be the adults and the children be the children.....ugh!

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So its ok to let a bunch of animals run the show....... and you are condoning her aggressive actions. She will never learn if everyone cops it up to stress and associates that behavior with being stressed.

Not being able to get a hold of the parents or back ups right away and the reaction to their child.....not cool.

Most likely this child will be on meds to control her behavior by elementary school-

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I realize the child was stressed, but is it not one of our responsibilities as parents and providers to help children deal with stress? Help them learn to cope?

All this played out so fast, and the provider did nothing wrong in my eyes. She may have made a mistake or 2, and we've only got the 1 side of the story, the other side would be the child's and they are not here to give that side.

SO...... like it's been said already, the child behaved very out of control, and if they behaved that way, as said already, in front of a stranger, that is not normal. What does this child behave like in front of people she know's and trusts? I can't imagine any better than that.

This child was bothering and harming the other children. AND the provider to top it. There is no acceptance on this matter. Should the provider have given the child another day? another week? to act this way, and say "it's ok, she is stressed?" Should the provider have let her have the opportunity to slap some other kid in the face? or kick in the head? I don't think so.

IF this provider had decided to brush it off as stress and allow this kid to continue another few weeks to adjust, EVERYONE on this forum would say why didn't you term immediately? Why would you allow this child to continue on?

I realize everyone has a different opinion and everyone would handle situations a little different than someone else would, but seriously, sometimes I find that if the provider did the right thing, someone's always going to debate it and say she did it wrong. And when she does it the other way, everyone will flame her for not doing the opposite..

There is far too much on this thread now for anyone to be able to read it thoroughly and take good information from it and learn from the bad now. I think too much back and forth on the same thing is going on, and it's getting old. This is a very good topic with lots of helpful information, but with the number of pages on this thread now, not many will get to see the good stuff, only all the bickering going on.

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Bwahahahahahahahahahahaaaaaaaaaaaaa!!!! Ah, thanks for letting me get that out.

Excuse me? Don't tell me "then don't"....I didn't. I did not debate nan about her methods or beliefs. I don't think I even responded to her after that post.....I'd have to go back and check to be sure though....and I don't have time for that right now.

Just because YOU think Nan is right doesn't mean she is. YOU are just another faceless, nameless person in a whole world of an internet society, so YOUR opinion is worthless to me.

Don't tell me that it's providers like me that "encourage this behavior" You don't know me from a hill of beans. I don't encourage this type of behavior, in fact I said I DON'T tolerate it. Just because I look at things from more than just my own perspective, and most certainly consider it from the CHILD'S perspective, doesn't mean I enocurage or condone this type of behavior.

Oh, and trust me, I have FAR more common sense than you would even recognize.

I agree that it is the providers right to term. My only irritation with the whole thing is that a young child came into her first day of care and sent to lay down. Had she been given a chance to mellow, the provider may very likely have found that she loved the kid.....she never had a chance to find out.

And, NO, this provider DID NOT behave professionally....she called three people within minutes of a the child arriving, SHAKING BECAUSE SHE WAS SO UPSET, because SHE could not control a three year old child. THAT is the LEAST professional thing I have heard in a VERY long time.

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Crystal, I am sorry but I need to call you out on this, I think you are taking this a little bit too far.

The forum is here for members and non members to come and share their experiences and opinions. Everyone has the right to take it or leave it. But your comment regarding being a "faceless , nameless person in a whole world of an internet society, so YOUR opinion is worthless to me" isn't called for.

Usually you and I agree on the same things, but I'm sorry, this isn't highschool, and that last post you made IMO is just as bad as some of the unregistered/troll posts that are on here.

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Why did the provider have to be professional? Who was she supposed to call? Her priest?

She had every right to talk in any way she felt to the parents and the back up number. She WAS upset. She was shaking. Why should she temper that in ANY way?

The way she managed this resulted in that kid being picked up in 35 minutes. That was EXCELLENT. The end result...of the kid being picked up immediately and the Mom seeing how upset she was was PERFECT.

We are flesh and bone. We are on the front line of this generation of out of control kids and entitled parents. We SHOULD show them EXACTLY how we feel. We have no more obligation to temper that then we do to tolerate that.

And a quick mention to the fact that the Mom did NOT pay a single penny for this 45 minutes. She had NO indication she would ever get paid. She brought the kid in and slammed the provider with the new info that there were problems with her funding.

She got a free 45 minutes and a great life lesson. She didn't like it but that's tough. Nothing happened to the kid. The kid got by with having ZERO consequences for what she did. The Mom got by without an apology and felt so entitled to her "respect" that she turned the provider in to the DHS and publicly tried to shame her.

The kid treated the provider like crap. The Mom was worse. Neither of them deserved ANYTHING but the TRUTH. The kid needed to see how devestated and upset the provider was and the Mom needed to get her kid kicked out of care immediately.

The providers ONLY responsibility was to get that kid into the Moms custody as soon as she could manage and keep the kid and the other kids safe until that could happen. The Mom said a lot of things about the provider but she didn't say a word that the child was harmed in any way. The kid was in such good spirits that even after she was told to lie down and smacked the provider that she felt comfortable not minding on the step while waiting for the Mom. The kid was in such great spirits when she left that even when having immediate access to her MOMMY she bolted off down the sidewalk and didn't want to get in the car. If she was traumatized she would have clung to her Mother and bolted for the car. She wouldn't have bolted off and kicked and screamed when she was put in the car seat.

The provider didn't have any obligation to any of them to do anything other than what she did. She didn't have to pretend it didn't happen or have a therapy session with the kid afterwards. She didn't have to "make nice" with the parents who didn't answer their phones... or the back up number person. She had every right in the world to be completely honest and react to what had happened truthfully with all of the adults.

The ONLY thing this provider did wrong was allow this parent in without money, allowed her to start short notice, and have the kid lay down shortly after she arrived. The truth is that whether or not the kid was there at eight a.m. or noon... there is an extremely extremely extremely high liklihood that she would have done the same thing IF she made it till nap without receiving a no from the provider. With the way she behaved with the Mom afterwards... it's a pretty good indication that the slap to the providers face would have come closer to 8 a.m. then noon if she would have come in the morning. Laying down may have been what set her off at that time of day but a kid that feels comfortable slapping a stranger adult would have done the same thing earlier if things weren't going her way.

Having this happen at nap was most likely a blessing to the other children and the provider. At least she had the TIME to get the parents there right away without the poor other kids having to witness any more of it then they already did.

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oh please. i am supposed to play nice with someone that comes here and behind the "unregistered" name insults me? i think not.

i'm not sure how i have taken anything too far. i stayed out of this thread after it went to far by others (whoever "they" may be) until i was chastised by some "nameless, faceless person" i'm certainly not going to sit back and allow some "nameless, faceless person whose opinion is worthless to me" insult and chastise me without defending myself.

unregistered might gain some respect if she'd own all of her posts with a name. I respect that Michael allows unregistered posting, but that doesn't mean i have to respect her.

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talking about out of control behavior.did you see the boy on the show X factor last night.

14year old boy threw a tantrum on stage in front of the entire world..

This is what we are all coming to deal with and it's only getting worse...

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no one said you have to sit back and allow it, but I think there's a line between being mature about it, and being childish about it. It's fine if the opinion is worthless to you, but doesn't need to be said. If they are baiting, you don't need to bite.

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Honestly nan, I DON'T CARE. If this provider and every other provider in the world wants to term a kid within 20 minutes of their first day of care because they get shaken up by a three year old tantrum, more power to em'. It is certainly within their rights to do so.. The downside for the provider is that word of mouth can DESTROY a business.

Anyhow, I quit caring about this thread two days ago. I have decided that this providers drama is her own and it is irrelevant to me and my program.

The ONLY reason I came back and posted was because i was quoted and insulted and felt i had a right to defend myself.

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Yes, it does need to be said. I wasn't being immature, I was being honest.

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But she didn't get shaken by a three year olds tantrum. She got shaken up by a three year old slapping her hard across the face. She got upset when that same kid kicked her laying down kids.

Do you think it's healthy NOT to show these kids or their parents our true emotions?

Hell I don't think I "have" a daycare parent or kid I haven't cried in front of numerous times. I'm a real live human being with FEELINGS. I don't try to be something else to any of them.

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Crystal,
I am NOT asking this to be rude or disrespectful but as a way of understanding different perspectives.

You have said that you try to take the child's perspective into consideration so in that line of thinking how would YOU have handled this situation?

Like I said, I really do want to know this, I think it is important for providers, parents, lurkers and trolls all alike to see that there are many ways of dealing with an issue such as this one. There are different ways to teach, to learn, and to solve problems and I like to have ALL the various ways/methods presented to me before I decide what works for me.

Let's pretend there are no issues about money or whether or not you would or wouldn't have allowed the child to arrive at nap time. Let's just say that all factors in the OP's situation were the way they actually were. So all drama aside, can you tell me how YOU would have handled this exact situation?

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AGAIN, FOR THE LAST TIME: I am not saying she should tolerate it. I am saying she handled things differently than I woud have. I tried to leave it at that and I continue to get debated about it. I TRIED to drop out of this conversation by telling YOU I don't want to debate you. I walked away from this discussion because I could see that drama was brewing when someone contacted the mom and then I get insulted by an unregistered and feel I have to defend myself. I don't WANT to discuss it anymore, but if I don't then, well I can imagine what would be said about me.

I should be able, just like ANYONE else here, to share my opinion without it becoming a huge debate simply because I disgree, but that is impossible for some of you here.

I DON"T HAVE TIME FOR IT SO I WILL NOT POST IN THESE TYPES OF THREADS ANYMORE. Or, maybe I'll just post unregistered, so i can drop out whenever I feel like it, or after i insult someone and want to run and hide under the uregistered moniker

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And herein lies the problem...

ALL people deserve respect....children should respect adults and not hit when they don't get what they want and you should respect other individuals on the forum, even the nameless, faceless ones. This is NOT your first disrespectful post on this thread...You started by disrespecting another poster by replying to her post with "blah, blah, blah..."

You have to practice it, to teach it...

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Well for start, not slap the child right back despite the reflex! Then try to calm them down and make sure to inform the parent at the end of the day. I dont have a ton of possible clients out there who are asking for childcare, so im not turning anyone away after one slap.

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Someone who comes here and namelessly, facelessly insults me and tells me I am wrong is NOT deserving of my respect. YOU can respect themif you choose to. I choose not to. And I think the blah, blah, blah, was in another thread, but, I could be worng....let me go check.

And as far practicing it to teach it, I practice it and model it, by respecting my families AND the children I care for.

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Well, thankfully slapping the child back, even in reflex, was NEVER once even mentioned by the OP.

If you accept clients (parents or children) who behave badly like this just because you need the clientel is, in a way, encouraging the behaviors.

Why would it be ok for a child to slap you across the face and get away with it for the sake of needing clients.

I am sorry, you might be the nicest and most professional daycare provider on the planet but IMHO, that is just wrong.

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just saw this.... I will come back to answer, have kids waking up!!!!

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Getting loud in here. Okay lets calm down cause i dont think its getting anyone anywhere at this point. Sorry you have been offended so much, i had no problem with your post and response. I for one think we all have to take issues on our own personal perspective. Thankfully we have the freedom to do so, its what makes us good at our jobs. We are discerners of whats going on around US and WE know the issues how we would handle them and do not know what anyone else would do, and maybe should do. But its hard because we live in a world where everyone is allowed to speak for themselves. So im glad you have and i am sorry you felt insulted.... okay im done with this i got kids to go take care of

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Crystal I'm not attacking your or debating you.

Cmon... now... you know me better than THAT.

I'm asking you a question about your view of professionalism and emotion.

Do you think there is a place in our relationship with parents AND kids where we show our true emotions even if they aren't something the child or parent like or want?

Why was it wrong to be upset and shaken up in front of both parent and child after being slapped, not minded, and the other kids being kicked?

Why do you think that is wrong? I don't get it.

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Hang in there, Crystal! I appreciate that we all have different opinions, but I do have to agree that on some of these threads whoever is in the minority (in this case Crystal) can get pretty beat up. This topic, like many others, is one that people feel pretty passionately about. It is easy, especially with the anonymity afforded by the internet, to say things in a manner that is rude and even insulting. I would suggest that everyone re-read their posts before hitting that reply button. Be passionate. Be firm. Be truthful. But, please, be courteous. Saying, "I hear what you are saying, but..." or "I respect your feelings on that, but I feel..." can go a long way towards making a post more palatable.
Oh, and judging from everyone's screen names, I am assuming that no one on here is God himself, so please don't be a know-it-all!

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It doesn't really matter which post you "blah, blah, blahed..." its disrespectful on any post.

You don't have to respect a persons actions, words, or opinions in order to present yourself respectfully.

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I know from personal experience even as a professional parent sometimes things shake us up. But after rereading the thread, wow that was a rude response to you Crystal.

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are you saying I was rude or her response to me was rude? not sure

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actually, i just went and found that post. if you had read it ALL, you would see in the section i quoted that in bold i replied to everything the unregistered member threw at me.....then out of the quote i said blah, blah, blah.....as a GENERAL I am done talking about this response, not AT the unregistered poster. But thanks for sharing your highly valued opinion.

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Crystal, if you are still reading this, I apologize if my post to you seemed snarky or anything, it wasn't my intention. Like I said, I normally think you and I are on the same page, and even in this post, I agreed with what you had to say with a few tweaks of my own. You have every right to defend yourself when you feel attacked on here, however, I don't think 2 wrongs make a right, and if you stoop to the level of some others who post here, then you are just as bad as they are. That's all I'm saying.

Share opinions, defend yourself when you feel you need to, but don't trash talk others, because that's not what this forum is here for.

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Yeah i was trying to type that so it wouldnt be confusing, lol, not much luck. I thought it was rude of her, not you.

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I have a hard time separating from the fact that the child arrived at nap time on her first day. I think that is a HUGE factor in the child's response.

But, I'll try. I HAVE had children attempt to hit me before. The same children who I have seen hit their parents have TRIED to hit me. It has never failed, that I have seen it coming. The child gets upset over something trivial and lashes out.....I have managed to always catch the child's hand midair, give them a stern look, a deep voice "you will NOT hit me, I don't hit YOU, you will NOT hit me" Crying and REMORSE for their action has ALWAYS ensued.

THEN, I have used the incident to EDUCATE the parent. This is what happened. this is what I have observed between you and your child. This is what I will NOT tolerate. If I see your child hit you again, I will know that you have done nothing to prevent it from happening and I will be FORCED to terminate services, as I will NOT have a child disrpespecting me or the other children in care.

And you know what? It has worked each and every time.

FTR, it has only happened a couple of times in 15 years.

Some of the children I thought would never last have become some of my very cherished children that I would die for.

BTW....this response was to Blackcat....I only shred this because she specifically asked. I do not care to discuss or debate it with anyone who disagrees with me....it works for me, and to me, that is all that matters.

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Thank you. I tend to get beat up when I disagree here, I just assumed you may be joining the bandwagon

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Right where it went!

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I try to stay off the wagon... metophorically speaking

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I appreciate that. But, I still don't see where I "trash talked" anyone. I didn't call names....I stated the truth.

But, thanks. I'll try to refrain from inserting my personal feelings.

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Thank you!

That was exactly what I was looking for. A spelled out, step by step process on how you would have dealt with that kind of behavior.

I do agree that antecedents have a lot to do with the behaviors that occur and until we see the big picture (the actions before, during and after) we will forever be unable to manage these types of behaviors in the day care field.

As providers we need to be able to have clear boundaries and expectations on our behaviors, the child's behaviors and the parents behaviors.

I do think this behavior will be happening alot more in this line of work and we, as providers, need to prepare before and after for these things. I think this all goes back to the interviewing process and making sure we have families that we can really and truly work with.

An ounce of prevention goes a long way.

I do not think that parents should be able to excuse their child's behaviors and I don't think providers should ever have to tolerate violence against any of their daycare children or themselves. EVER. It should NEVER be ok.

(My response has nothing to do with the specifc situation that started this thread. I am responding in general about the subject)

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Crystal, I am aware that you responded to her and that you did so in a respectful way. What I don't understand is why you followed up with the blah, blah, blah. It seems your responses were well thought out and insightful right up until that point.

In any case, my intention was never to debate common courtesy with you. We all have a different set of expectations for ourselves and others.

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I wanted to comment on the Only thing this provider did wrong.......

I don't know that the provider did anything wrong here...... I don't think we always get a say of when our clients are going to start. It's more at the need of the parents. She did have an interview-the parent failed to tell her many things that could have helped the provider- maybe out of embarrassment or for whatever reason. Sounds like the child came from other care, and needed care right away in order for parent to work. The money end of it, again it sounded like she was going to be a state paid kid- and that is another thing you don't have much control over when you take state kids. Having the child nap right away......it was the time needed by the parent, and the provider was not cruel, mean, demanding etc... I find that the provider handled this situation well. Nan- I agree with you and you crack me up. This thread was much needed- because if this should happen to me, I feel better equipped to handle a situation as the owner of my childcare. I have been in a situation where I have had no say other then to quit my job or be abused by a huge three year old. As Nan said- when it became about money.......and how it was causing money issues with other kids being afraid, parents pulling the kids, then and there was it addressed and the child removed from the Center. Similar situation-over nap issues.

I am sure there are trolls out there....... I am not one of them. I have a face, and a name. I just chose not to use it at this time. I don't know how having those things would change anything. I have an opinion just as everyone else and you are more then welcome to take it or leave it. I thank all of the peeps that have posted because I have learned so much and hope that I help others to grow and learn too. I happen to value Nan's advice, I have read a lot of it, listened to a lot of her talks, share a lot of the same walks of life, and respect her years of experience. I did my research and she comes from a good place. I have not always felt this way, at first I thought she was some type of drill Sargent. Not at all. She has a big heart for these kiddo's and she knows her stuff. I hope Nan puts a book out there one day.

Crystal, I don't agree with you putting most of it on the Provider and always looking at things from the kids point of view. The kids don't have the experiences to know what is in their best interest as the adults do. They just don't. I am not saying to dismiss the kids feelings all together or be cold but in this case, hitting the provider was just not ok- no matter what. This child has clearly learned to manipulate adults to get what she wants, and she succeeded, so I see it that, the provider did the best thing and terminated care. If the provider would have let the situation go on and another child in her care was hurt because of this violent kid, I see it as everyone would have come down on the provider.......Why did you allow this child to stay in your care knowing this kid had clear issues. As nan said the provider was in her own right to be upset and shook up over this. I would have been.

On a silly side of this, I wonder if this amazing child will get an ooompa loompa for Christmas, or a goose that lays golden eggs for Easter...... maybe that is what she went running down the block looking for........tee hee.

I just hope the parent wises up and learns from this. She will but it will take a few more bad happenings and most likely her child will end up on some type of medication to handle her outburst, when really all it would have taken was better parenting skills. The parent is going to learn the hard way and that will be when the child is out of control for her.

To the provider- thanks for sharing this experience. I hope all of us continue to share the good and the bad of daily childcare. You all help shape me to be a better provider. Thank you~

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I'm cringing as I type this because I don't like getting involved in heated discussions but I do have to say I agree with what Crystal has written. I have done the same with kids who have tried to hit me and it has worked as she's described it.

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I agreed with Crystal as well. But as a provider, and business owner, I think we have every right to deal with the situation as we see fit. At the time, it was clear to this provider that this child was not a good fit, and was a danger to the other children. If a child raised their hand at me, if i was quick enough to catch it before it made contact, then great, i could deal with that differently. But if I was surprised by a child that managed to slap me across the face that is a whole different matter.

I would also like to point out, that this provider was obviously down at the child's level, in order for the child to make contact on the face. I could only imagine, this provider was speaking or trying to calm the child, when the child bombarded her with a crack on the face.

Once again, I agree with what Crystal has been saying, other than maybe the way some of her posts came across. But we weren't there, we don't know the vibe this child gave off. I'm sure this provider could tell it was a behavioural issue and not a "stressed" issue.

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