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Unregistered 01:15 PM 06-26-2013
The whole Paula Dean scandal has gotten me thinking on this and how to handle it in childcare. More times then not since this broke I have heard "People are so Sensitive these days" and it seems I've even heard that alot on here as well. So are we over sensitive to these culture issues or is there really a line not to cross.

For QRIS in our state when you get to 4 or 5 stars you have to start having "culture" intergrated into your program. It pretty much is anything to do with the "culture" the child is living in, not just skin color. So religion, marital, food, disabilities, etc.

I remember awhile back there being a post about a dcb calling everyone at childcare the N word as that is what he heard at home. As I recall the child was African American and alot of the African American use the N word when addressing someone. The other families were offended though by the child using that word even though it was in his culture.

Then I was in a class where same sex marriage was brought up and how some parents in a program were having a hard time with their child being in an environment where children are coming from families with this "culture".

Other providers and I were talking and trying to really figure this out. How do you allow culture from different families in your program without offending each other. Also, what happens if a family calls and their "culture" doesn't fit into your program, how can you decline without possibly being sued for discrimination?
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Blackcat31 01:20 PM 06-26-2013
The only time I get offended is if someone believes, teaches or thinks one culture is better than another.

ALL cultures/beliefs and traditions should be respected. Even if you don't agree, you can still be respectful.

Diversity is something EVERYONE should celebrate and welcome!

I don't necessarily follow much news (other than political) so I don't know what's up with Paula Deen.
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craftymissbeth 01:57 PM 06-26-2013
Originally Posted by Blackcat31:
The only time I get offended is if someone believes, teaches or thinks one culture is better than another.

ALL cultures/beliefs and traditions should be respected. Even if you don't agree, you can still be respectful.

Diversity is something EVERYONE should celebrate and welcome!

I don't necessarily follow much news (other than political) so I don't know what's up with Paula Deen.


Very well said!
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Play Care 02:50 PM 06-26-2013
Originally Posted by Blackcat31:
The only time I get offended is if someone believes, teaches or thinks one culture is better than another.

ALL cultures/beliefs and traditions should be respected. Even if you don't agree, you can still be respectful.

Diversity is something EVERYONE should celebrate and welcome!

I don't necessarily follow much news (other than political) so I don't know what's up with Paula Deen.
Agree, though I have been following the Paula Deen saga. She got me through PPD after I had my first child.

As the facts stand now I feel bad for her. She was sued by a former employee for discrimination. Under oath she was asked if she had ever used the "n" word. Being under oath she was honest and admitted she had used it years ago.
And people are shocked, SHOCKED! that a 60 something year old white woman from the Deep South used that word years ago?! Really?!
I believe in the very near future the words "gay" or "retarded" will be held in the same regard as the "n" word. While both words have fallen out of favor in my area, I still overhear them in casual conversation. Imagine 20 or 30 years from now being vilified because you said something was "retarded" when you were younger... I'll admit I find this idea that we can never learn/move on from mistakes tiresome and it's directly tied in to this 24/7 media bombardment. It's going to implode, and it will be ugly.

Stepping off the soap box
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Blackcat31 02:55 PM 06-26-2013
Originally Posted by Play Care:
Agree, though I have been following the Paula Deen saga. She got me through PPD after I had my first child.

As the facts stand now I feel bad for her. She was sued by a former employee for discrimination. Under oath she was asked if she had ever used the "n" word. Being under oath she was honest and admitted she had used it years ago.
And people are shocked, SHOCKED! that a 60 something year old white woman from the Deep South used that word years ago?! Really?!
I believe in the very near future the words "gay" or "retarded" will be held in the same regard as the "n" word. While both words have fallen out of favor in my area, I still overhear them in casual conversation. Imagine 20 or 30 years from now being vilified because you said something was "retarded" when you were younger... I'll admit I find this idea that we can never learn/move on from mistakes tiresome and it's directly tied in to this 24/7 media bombardment. It's going to implode, and it will be ugly.

Stepping off the soap box
So she (Paula Deen) is being vilified for using a word years ago that appears more than a dozen times in movies like Django Unchained, which brought in $129.1million in 3 weeks???

Yeah, something is definitely wrong with society today.
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Oneluckymom 04:08 PM 06-26-2013
But religion is NOT considered "culture". Food, clothing, music, living styles(houses) , family dynamics, yes....but not religion.
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Starburst 04:32 PM 06-26-2013
Originally Posted by Unregistered:

I remember awhile back there being a post about a dcb calling everyone at childcare the N word as that is what he heard at home. As I recall the child was African American and alot of the African American use the N word when addressing someone. The other families were offended though by the child using that word even though it was in his culture.
Using derogatory terms and racist slurs is not a part of "culture" its ignorance that the kids pick up on from hearing it. It was a word slave owners used to belittle and dehumanize slaves, in the dictionary it says it means "an uneducated person". My Psychology teacher is African American who grew up in a low-income family during the 1960s/70s (when he was called that all the time) and he says he never uses that word.
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Unregistered 04:33 PM 06-26-2013
Originally Posted by Play Care:
Agree, though I have been following the Paula Deen saga. She got me through PPD after I had my first child.

As the facts stand now I feel bad for her. She was sued by a former employee for discrimination. Under oath she was asked if she had ever used the "n" word. Being under oath she was honest and admitted she had used it years ago.
And people are shocked, SHOCKED! that a 60 something year old white woman from the Deep South used that word years ago?! Really?!
I believe in the very near future the words "gay" or "retarded" will be held in the same regard as the "n" word. While both words have fallen out of favor in my area, I still overhear them in casual conversation. Imagine 20 or 30 years from now being vilified because you said something was "retarded" when you were younger... I'll admit I find this idea that we can never learn/move on from mistakes tiresome and it's directly tied in to this 24/7 media bombardment. It's going to implode, and it will be ugly.

Stepping off the soap box
Thank you for explaining! Just was able to get back on.

I feel for Paula Deen and I can't believe Food Network dropped her like that. I'm sure most people in the South have used that word!


So I guess this is my confusion-if a child comes from a culture that accepts certain things but isn't correct in other cultures, how do you dicifer that in your program without looking like your being biased?
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Cradle2crayons 04:35 PM 06-26-2013
Here in the south apparently the n word is only derogatory if its used by someone who is not African American. I don't use it and neither does my husband. However, my dad and his brothers are racist and they do use that term. I grew up hearing it from them but my wonderful grandma is thankfully the one who taught me right from wrong and that word has never left my lips. And if I hear it, I cringe.
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Lyss 04:40 PM 06-26-2013
Originally Posted by Unregistered:
The whole Paula Dean scandal has gotten me thinking on this and how to handle it in childcare. More times then not since this broke I have heard "People are so Sensitive these days" and it seems I've even heard that alot on here as well. So are we over sensitive to these culture issues or is there really a line not to cross.

For QRIS in our state when you get to 4 or 5 stars you have to start having "culture" intergrated into your program. It pretty much is anything to do with the "culture" the child is living in, not just skin color. So religion, marital, food, disabilities, etc.

I remember awhile back there being a post about a dcb calling everyone at childcare the N word as that is what he heard at home. As I recall the child was African American and alot of the African American use the N word when addressing someone. The other families were offended though by the child using that word even though it was in his culture.

Then I was in a class where same sex marriage was brought up and how some parents in a program were having a hard time with their child being in an environment where children are coming from families with this "culture".

Other providers and I were talking and trying to really figure this out. How do you allow culture from different families in your program without offending each other. Also, what happens if a family calls and their "culture" doesn't fit into your program, how can you decline without possibly being sued for discrimination?
In all honesty can't think of a reason that someone's culture would or beliefs would exclude them from my program so I'm not sure how to answer that question. I also dont discuss any details of other families with my DCP. I guess if you ran a specific type of program (like religion based for example) both parties would probably realize it wouldn't be a good fit if they were on different belief systems.

Originally Posted by Blackcat31:
The only time I get offended is if someone believes, teaches or thinks one culture is better than another.

ALL cultures/beliefs and traditions should be respected. Even if you don't agree, you can still be respectful.

Diversity is something EVERYONE should celebrate and welcome!

I don't necessarily follow much news (other than political) so I don't know what's up with Paula Deen.

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Blackcat31 07:56 AM 06-27-2013
Originally Posted by Unregistered:
So I guess this is my confusion-if a child comes from a culture that accepts certain things but isn't correct in other cultures, how do you dicifer that in your program without looking like your being biased?
I honestly can't think of anything that would fit into that scenario.

You'd have to give an example of what you mean.

If you are referring to the use of the "N" word, that word is NOT socially acceptable and I think that what is socially acceptable sometimes supercedes the right to observe or practice your personal cultural beliefs. It may be used within small groups of people who "believe" it is a cultural thing but I think that is just an excuse some people use to justify why they use that word.

I feel it really isn't different than using the "F" word. Just because certain groups of people use the word, does not give it merit or include it in any definition of socially or culturally appropriate use. kwim?

In every culture, some words or statements are considered hate speech or inappropriate ethnic slurs (such as, using the word Hun to a German, using the word Jap to a Japanese person, etc.). In most modern cultures, insulting a person or group of people, especially for any reason outside his or her immediate control, such as having a medical condition, following a particular religion, or being poor, is considered rude. Rude speech also includes derogatory terms describing an individual person and asking inappropriate questions or pressing for an answers to a question.

However, there is no universal rule about which terms are considered derogatory and which questions are inappropriate under what circumstances.

Hate speech is, outside the law, communication that vilifies a person or a group based on discrimination against that person or group

(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/)

I think the "N" word would fall under hate speech and would not be an acceptable word to use simply because IT IS offensive to others and not commonly accepted in society.

HTH
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Blackcat31 07:59 AM 06-27-2013
Originally Posted by Starburst:
It was a word slave owners used to belittle and dehumanize slaves, in the dictionary it says it means "an uneducated person".
Harvard law professor Randall Kennedy - the man who literally wrote the book on the word - notes that etymologists say the N-word "was derived from an [old] English word 'neger' that was itself derived from 'Negro,' the Spanish word for black."

But, he adds, "the term 'N****r' is in most contexts a cultural obscenity."


http://nationalcenter.org/P21NVMassieNword90408.html
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preschoolteacher 08:43 AM 06-27-2013
Originally Posted by Blackcat31:
I think that what is socially acceptable sometimes supercedes the right to observe or practice your personal cultural beliefs.
^^^ This.

People have differing opinions and practices, but when YOUR opinions and practices infringe upon MY rights--that's when we have a problem. So what are my rights? In a daycare setting, I think all children and families have the right to be treated with dignity and respect. If another child or parent's use of racial slurs (for example) creates a negative environment or causes a child to feel humiliated, shamed, or rejected--I think that is a problem that the provider must address.

In the Paula Dean case, it is my understanding that she used racial slurs, made racist jokes, and told racist stories on occasion. The reason why she was fired was because it happened in the workplace. There are federal anti-discrimination laws in place as part of the Civil Rights Act that prohibit employers from discriminating on the case of race (as well as other things). As part of those laws, employers like Food Network also MUST take disciplinary action when one of their employees acts in a discriminatory way. Under this law, racial slurs and racist jokes are considered discriminatory acts. If Food Network would not have taken action against her, they could have been sued and would have lost. In another workplace, someone who did what Paula Dean did might have been written up or suspended, but since she's a very public figure, I think the Network did the right thing by firing her. There is not much they could do to redeem her image. Honestly, she should have known better. She was making these comments at work, not at home or in social situations.
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Blackcat31 09:21 AM 06-27-2013
Originally Posted by preschoolteacher:

In the Paula Dean case, it is my understanding that she used racial slurs, made racist jokes, and told racist stories on occasion. The reason why she was fired was because it happened in the workplace. There are federal anti-discrimination laws in place as part of the Civil Rights Act that prohibit employers from discriminating on the case of race (as well as other things). As part of those laws, employers like Food Network also MUST take disciplinary action when one of their employees acts in a discriminatory way. Under this law, racial slurs and racist jokes are considered discriminatory acts. If Food Network would not have taken action against her, they could have been sued and would have lost. In another workplace, someone who did what Paula Dean did might have been written up or suspended, but since she's a very public figure, I think the Network did the right thing by firing her. There is not much they could do to redeem her image. Honestly, she should have known better. She was making these comments at work, not at home or in social situations.
Oh, okay....well that makes a world of difference.

She definitely should have known better. If I were her boss or an agency or network representing her, I'd fire her too as I wouldn't want to be connected to her in any manner.
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AcornMama 09:29 AM 06-27-2013
Originally Posted by Unregistered:
I'm sure most people in the South have used that word!
Um, politely, no.
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Play Care 09:48 AM 06-27-2013
Originally Posted by preschoolteacher:
^^^ This.

People have differing opinions and practices, but when YOUR opinions and practices infringe upon MY rights--that's when we have a problem. So what are my rights? In a daycare setting, I think all children and families have the right to be treated with dignity and respect. If another child or parent's use of racial slurs (for example) creates a negative environment or causes a child to feel humiliated, shamed, or rejected--I think that is a problem that the provider must address.

In the Paula Dean case, it is my understanding that she used racial slurs, made racist jokes, and told racist stories on occasion. The reason why she was fired was because it happened in the workplace. There are federal anti-discrimination laws in place as part of the Civil Rights Act that prohibit employers from discriminating on the case of race (as well as other things). As part of those laws, employers like Food Network also MUST take disciplinary action when one of their employees acts in a discriminatory way. Under this law, racial slurs and racist jokes are considered discriminatory acts. If Food Network would not have taken action against her, they could have been sued and would have lost. In another workplace, someone who did what Paula Dean did might have been written up or suspended, but since she's a very public figure, I think the Network did the right thing by firing her. There is not much they could do to redeem her image. Honestly, she should have known better. She was making these comments at work, not at home or in social situations.
What I read said she was asked if she had ever used the "n" word and she said yes. When asked when, she told them when she was held at gun point during a bank robbery in 1986.
She apparently was looking into an "old south" themed wedding for her bother back in 2006, where the help would all be A.A. because a local restaurant had a similar theme...
Although I read one headline that said she was making these slurs at work, nothing in the article supported that.
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sally 09:51 AM 06-27-2013
Originally Posted by Cradle2crayons:
Here in the south apparently the n word is only derogatory if its used by someone who is not African American. I don't use it and neither does my husband. However, my dad and his brothers are racist and they do use that term. I grew up hearing it from them but my wonderful grandma is thankfully the one who taught me right from wrong and that word has never left my lips. And if I hear it, I cringe.
I grew up hearing the N word a lot as a child. But my father never used it toward just african americans. He always said it was an attitude. There were white N's, mexican N's and so forth.I don't talk that way at all but am trying to teach my children not to talk that was as my husband does and he slips up sometimes as well as my adult stepson.
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Starburst 06:29 PM 06-27-2013
Originally Posted by Blackcat31:
Harvard law professor Randall Kennedy - the man who literally wrote the book on the word - notes that etymologists say the N-word "was derived from an [old] English word 'neger' that was itself derived from 'Negro,' the Spanish word for black."

But, he adds, "the term 'N****r' is in most contexts a cultural obscenity."


http://nationalcenter.org/P21NVMassieNword90408.html
That's how they came up with it before it became what it is now but in dictionaries today there are several definitions and one of them is "an ignorant person"

This isn't the direct link because the direct link has the actual word and I didn't want it printed on here but the link to the definition to the real word is on the page
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/n-word
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littlemissmuffet 07:56 PM 06-27-2013
Oh, the "n" word...

I agree that this word isn't socially acceptable... but only when it comes to whites and other non-black people. It is perfectly acceptable for a black to call himself or another black a nigger or nigga. My step dad is black and he refers to all blacks as the "n" word. It's okay for them, but nobody else. How is this okay?

Most of my mom's friend are gay. They call themselves fags. Completely acceptable. Until a non-gay uses the same word.

I understand why it's NOT okay for someone to use certain words to describe others - but I don't understand why that doesn't apply to everyone as a whole.

If certain cultures demonstrate such incredible disrespect for themselves and their own people I understand how it could be diffuclt for others to have respect.


Anyways, Paula Deen wasn't booted from The Food Network simply because she used some racial slurs - she already had a heavy strike against her for hiding her diabetes diagnoses for years while continuing to promote unhealthy recipes and eating (not that her medical issues are anyone else's business - and why it was okay for her to promote garbage food prior without public ridicule is beyond me).

When I heard about her current situation I'm not going to lie (I used to live in Texas) I immediately thought "Are people really suprised that an old broad from the south has never uttered THAT word"? Which, just goes to prove that EVERYONE is stereotyped for something these days.


And to answer the original question, I personally don't care if someones black, white, purple, gay, straight, male, female, fat, skinny... whatever - as long as someone's a good person, they are welcome in my home. When it comes to business, I have a pretty similar thought process... as long as a family follows policy, pays on time and isn't insane, come on in!
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DaycareMom2012 08:46 PM 06-27-2013
Originally Posted by littlemissmuffet:
Oh, the "n" word...

I agree that this word isn't socially acceptable... but only when it comes to whites and other non-black people. It is perfectly acceptable for a black to call himself or another black a nigger or nigga. My step dad is black and he refers to all blacks as the "n" word. It's okay for them, but nobody else. How is this okay?

Most of my mom's friend are gay. They call themselves fags. Completely acceptable. Until a non-gay uses the same word.

I understand why it's NOT okay for someone to use certain words to describe others - but I don't understand why that doesn't apply to everyone as a whole.

If certain cultures demonstrate such incredible disrespect for themselves and their own people I understand how it could be diffuclt for others to have respect.


Anyways, Paula Deen wasn't booted from The Food Network simply because she used some racial slurs - she already had a heavy strike against her for hiding her diabetes diagnoses for years while continuing to promote unhealthy recipes and eating (not that her medical issues are anyone else's business - and why it was okay for her to promote garbage food prior without public ridicule is beyond me).

When I heard about her current situation I'm not going to lie (I used to live in Texas) I immediately thought "Are people really suprised that an old broad from the south has never uttered THAT word"? Which, just goes to prove that EVERYONE is stereotyped for something these days.


And to answer the original question, I personally don't care if someones black, white, purple, gay, straight, male, female, fat, skinny... whatever - as long as someone's a good person, they are welcome in my home. When it comes to business, I have a pretty similar thought process... as long as a family follows policy, pays on time and isn't insane, come on in!
I agree!
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preschoolteacher 09:22 AM 06-28-2013
Originally Posted by littlemissmuffet:
I understand why it's NOT okay for someone to use certain words to describe others - but I don't understand why that doesn't apply to everyone as a whole.
People use words like the 'n' word and the 'f' word (slur against gay people) as a way to attack those people, to demean them, to belittle them.

When African-Americans use the 'n' word or gay people call themselves the 'f' word, in a way it is "taking back" that slur. It takes away the power the word has. If I am gay and call myself the 'f' word, I'm changing the definition of that word and using it to empower myself... and I'm taking away YOUR power to hurt me with it. You can't do anything to me by calling me that name now, because I use it, and I've changed what it means to me, so screw you... You know what I mean?

That's why I believe it's not appropriate for people to use those slurs if they are not a member of the group.
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littlemissmuffet 10:03 AM 06-28-2013
Originally Posted by preschoolteacher:
People use words like the 'n' word and the 'f' word (slur against gay people) as a way to attack those people, to demean them, to belittle them.

When African-Americans use the 'n' word or gay people call themselves the 'f' word, in a way it is "taking back" that slur. It takes away the power the word has. If I am gay and call myself the 'f' word, I'm changing the definition of that word and using it to empower myself... and I'm taking away YOUR power to hurt me with it. You can't do anything to me by calling me that name now, because I use it, and I've changed what it means to me, so screw you... You know what I mean?

That's why I believe it's not appropriate for people to use those slurs if they are not a member of the group.
I get what you're saying but I disagree entirely. When I hear gays calling themselves fags, or black people referring to themselves as niggers I think they are making fools of themselves and disrespecting their people as a whole... and have absolutely NO right to expect others not to use those same words if they choose to. How about they just call themselves PEOPLE.
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Willow 10:37 AM 06-28-2013
u
Originally Posted by littlemissmuffet:
I get what you're saying but I disagree entirely. When I hear gays calling themselves fags, or black people referring to themselves as niggers I think they are making fools of themselves and disrespecting their people as a whole... and have absolutely NO right to expect others not to use those same words if they choose to. How about they just call themselves PEOPLE.
Holy agree.

My niece is bi-racial and her father uses the n word in every sentance I swear.

The double standard is freaking disgusting.


It isn't about "taking back a word" it's about arrogance and maintaining a double standard to keep us all divided. She is only two but has said it before and you bet I correct her smack dab in front of her father letting her know that word is disgusting, shameful and not suitable to come out of anyone's mouth much less a little girls.

She is speech delayed but can torque that one out clear as day.



Paula Deen did nothing 99.9% of the population hasn't also done save for Mother Theresa herself. She took for granted the company she was in and let her inhibitions slip a little too low.

Jesse Jackson himself said no big deal PD and blamed the current acceptance of the word by African Americans in this country.
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Unregistered 12:59 PM 06-28-2013
I brought out the dictionary my mom had when I was growing up to look up a few of these words. 1969 was the copywrite date and is the Webster's Seventh New Collegiate Dictionary.

The definition of the N word-A member of the black race of mankind and distinguished by the physical appearance.

The definition of Fag-A bundle of sticks, a cigarette, an English schoolboy servant.

The definition of Gay-Happy, colorful, lighthearted


I have a friend that actually did a report on "Fags" and the teachers mouth dropped to the floor. It was on the danger of smoking them and 99% of our parents remembered calling them that when they were teenagers.

Anyway, if you look any of the above words up, they have nothing like these for definitions anymore.

For the bottom to the first definition for both will have to do with being homosexual especially men.
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