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Daycare Center and Family Home Forum>Food Program Question
littlemommy 07:37 AM 03-12-2012
If you make something with a fruit/vegetable, can you claim that as a fruit/vegetable serving?
Example: if you make a smoothie with bananas, can you claim the banana, even though you don't know how much banana is in each kid's drink?
My FP rep isn't the best at answering these types of questions..
Example: if you make a smoothie with bananas, can you claim the banana, even though you don't know how much banana is in each kid's drink?
My FP rep isn't the best at answering these types of questions..
Blackcat31 07:40 AM 03-12-2012
As far as I know, yes you can claim that as a fruit serving.
As a matter of fact in one of their pre-planned menus, a fruit smoothie is considered a fruit serving as a snack item so I think you can absolutely count it.
As a matter of fact in one of their pre-planned menus, a fruit smoothie is considered a fruit serving as a snack item so I think you can absolutely count it.
MrsB 07:51 AM 03-12-2012
Yes I claim a fruit/vegitable serving with spaghetti sauce (tomatoes/greenpeppers), my chicken soup (carrots, celery), chili (tomatoes, green peppers) etc. When I did the food program I never had it questioned.
daycare 08:19 AM 03-12-2012
I was told that if I were to serve a fruit smoothie, which I love to do , that I had to make sure that each drink was still meeting the daily required amount of each portion. Which I found found is not possible to do.
So I still make them and then serve a side of another fruit, and protein. Like yogurt. I would also still need to serve the required amount of milk too. SO I always end of having to give them an extra glass of milk at the same time.
Basically, you can do it, but you really can't make a fruit smoothie and claim it as a meal to replace all of the necessary meal requirements.
DOes this make sense?
So I still make them and then serve a side of another fruit, and protein. Like yogurt. I would also still need to serve the required amount of milk too. SO I always end of having to give them an extra glass of milk at the same time.
Basically, you can do it, but you really can't make a fruit smoothie and claim it as a meal to replace all of the necessary meal requirements.
DOes this make sense?
Blackcat31 08:34 AM 03-12-2012
Originally Posted by daycare:
I was told that if I were to serve a fruit smoothie, which I love to do , that I had to make sure that each drink was still meeting the daily required amount of each portion. Which I found found is not possible to do.
So I still make them and then serve a side of another fruit, and protein. Like yogurt. I would also still need to serve the required amount of milk too. SO I always end of having to give them an extra glass of milk at the same time.
Basically, you can do it, but you really can't make a fruit smoothie and claim it as a meal to replace all of the necessary meal requirements.
DOes this make sense?
You can only claim ONE ingredient in anything you make like a casserole or fruit smoothie. For example if you make stew, you can either claim one vegetable or one meat serving NOT two. I was told that if I were to serve a fruit smoothie, which I love to do , that I had to make sure that each drink was still meeting the daily required amount of each portion. Which I found found is not possible to do.
So I still make them and then serve a side of another fruit, and protein. Like yogurt. I would also still need to serve the required amount of milk too. SO I always end of having to give them an extra glass of milk at the same time.
Basically, you can do it, but you really can't make a fruit smoothie and claim it as a meal to replace all of the necessary meal requirements.
DOes this make sense?
Plus when you make fruit smoothies, what you can do to ensure that each child gets the proper serving size is make the smoothie adding ONLY the correct serving sizes of the fruit and milk. Such as adding 1/2 cup of berries for each child you have present.
Have 4 kids? add 2 cups of berries and then when you split the smoothie into 4 servings equally, each kid IS getting the correct amount to call it a fruit serving. You can't claim the milk you added to make the smoothie because you are already claiming the fruit.
I am assuming this is what you meant?
littlemommy 08:38 AM 03-12-2012
I've been told that I don't have to be exact on measurements, but just have the required amount available if they want to eat/drink that much. So I could claim banana in a smoothie, as long as I have extra banana to serve if they want more?
Would banana count in a homemade banana oat muffin? I've never counted it before as a fruit and grain serving, just as grain.
I wish I would have been told these things earlier. My rep didn't even know if I could claim eggs that are locally bought, or home ground meat. I never really got a clear answer on those, either.
Would banana count in a homemade banana oat muffin? I've never counted it before as a fruit and grain serving, just as grain.
I wish I would have been told these things earlier. My rep didn't even know if I could claim eggs that are locally bought, or home ground meat. I never really got a clear answer on those, either.
littlemommy 08:41 AM 03-12-2012
Originally Posted by Blackcat31:
You can only claim ONE ingredient in anything you make like a casserole or fruit smoothie. For example if you make stew, you can either claim one vegetable or one meat serving NOT two.
Plus when you make fruit smoothies, what you can do to ensure that each child gets the proper serving size is make the smoothie adding ONLY the correct serving sizes of the fruit and milk. Such as adding 1/2 cup of berries for each child you have present.
Have 4 kids? add 2 cups of berries and then when you split the smoothie into 4 servings equally, each kid IS getting the correct amount to call it a fruit serving. You can't claim the milk you added to make the smoothie because you are already claiming the fruit.
I am assuming this is what you meant?
I've never heard that before. My rep is completely fine with me claiming chicken soup as a meat, 2 veggies (celery and carrots) and grain (noodles) as long as I have enough for everyoneYou can only claim ONE ingredient in anything you make like a casserole or fruit smoothie. For example if you make stew, you can either claim one vegetable or one meat serving NOT two.
Plus when you make fruit smoothies, what you can do to ensure that each child gets the proper serving size is make the smoothie adding ONLY the correct serving sizes of the fruit and milk. Such as adding 1/2 cup of berries for each child you have present.
Have 4 kids? add 2 cups of berries and then when you split the smoothie into 4 servings equally, each kid IS getting the correct amount to call it a fruit serving. You can't claim the milk you added to make the smoothie because you are already claiming the fruit.
I am assuming this is what you meant?
Blackcat31 08:42 AM 03-12-2012
Originally Posted by littlemommy:
I've been told that I don't have to be exact on measurements, but just have the required amount available if they want to eat/drink that much. So I could claim banana in a smoothie, as long as I have extra banana to serve if they want more?
Would banana count in a homemade banana oat muffin? I've never counted it before as a fruit and grain serving, just as grain.
I wish I would have been told these things earlier. My rep didn't even know if I could claim eggs that are locally bought, or home ground meat. I never really got a clear answer on those, either.
My rep also tells me that I am only required to have the correct amounts AVAILABLE as well.I've been told that I don't have to be exact on measurements, but just have the required amount available if they want to eat/drink that much. So I could claim banana in a smoothie, as long as I have extra banana to serve if they want more?
Would banana count in a homemade banana oat muffin? I've never counted it before as a fruit and grain serving, just as grain.
I wish I would have been told these things earlier. My rep didn't even know if I could claim eggs that are locally bought, or home ground meat. I never really got a clear answer on those, either.
As far as the banana in the muffin, you can ONLY claim that as a grain as their is not enough banana in it to be counted as a fruit serving. You could serve the muffin AND the banana and claim 1 grain and 1 fruit but NOT both fruit and grain from the muffin only.
As far as the home made ground beef you cannot claim any meats that have not been inspected by the USDA so you cannot claim the meat unless the meat processor has been inspected and is allowed to use the USDA stamp. You are also not allowed to claim eggs that you get unless they too ahve under gone an inspection process to make sure they are ok.
I have some good links about these rules and will look them up and post them here in a bit.
littlemommy 08:47 AM 03-12-2012
thanks. it gets confusing, especially when the people that work with the food program can't answer questions without asking people above them!
Blackcat31 09:20 AM 03-12-2012
Here is a link to serving/claiming...scroll to the second page and you will see combination dishes in bold print in the bottom right corner of page two.
http://www.childcarechoices.net/Port...r%20Folder.pdf
I was wrong though about how many components you can claim...it says 2 MAX.
So you could claim a veggie and a meat if you made lasagna but you can't claim the noodles as a grain too and claim more than 2 components.
Does that make sense?
Also here is the link to the food buying guides for each meal compenent. If you click on the one that says meat/meat alternatives, it will explain in there what is ok to serve and not serve (as far as wild game and homemade ground beef as well as eggs from your own chickens etc)
http://www.fns.usda.gov/tn/Resources...yingguide.html
http://www.childcarechoices.net/Port...r%20Folder.pdf
I was wrong though about how many components you can claim...it says 2 MAX.
So you could claim a veggie and a meat if you made lasagna but you can't claim the noodles as a grain too and claim more than 2 components.
Does that make sense?
Also here is the link to the food buying guides for each meal compenent. If you click on the one that says meat/meat alternatives, it will explain in there what is ok to serve and not serve (as far as wild game and homemade ground beef as well as eggs from your own chickens etc)
http://www.fns.usda.gov/tn/Resources...yingguide.html
daycare 09:21 AM 03-12-2012
Originally Posted by littlemommy:
thanks. it gets confusing, especially when the people that work with the food program can't answer questions without asking people above them!
lol I have been very lucky to have a great site monitor with my food program. She has been very very helpful to me in so many waysthanks. it gets confusing, especially when the people that work with the food program can't answer questions without asking people above them!
MrsB 09:27 AM 03-12-2012
Originally Posted by Blackcat31:
My rep also tells me that I am only required to have the correct amounts AVAILABLE as well.
As far as the banana in the muffin, you can ONLY claim that as a grain as their is not enough banana in it to be counted as a fruit serving. You could serve the muffin AND the banana and claim 1 grain and 1 fruit but NOT both fruit and grain from the muffin only.
As far as the home made ground beef you cannot claim any meats that have not been inspected by the USDA so you cannot claim the meat unless the meat processor has been inspected and is allowed to use the USDA stamp. You are also not allowed to claim eggs that you get unless they too ahve under gone an inspection process to make sure they are ok.
I have some good links about these rules and will look them up and post them here in a bit.
I am a little confused too, because a recipe book, I received from CACFP that has the breakdown of what you can claim per recipe has more than one food group in it.My rep also tells me that I am only required to have the correct amounts AVAILABLE as well.
As far as the banana in the muffin, you can ONLY claim that as a grain as their is not enough banana in it to be counted as a fruit serving. You could serve the muffin AND the banana and claim 1 grain and 1 fruit but NOT both fruit and grain from the muffin only.
As far as the home made ground beef you cannot claim any meats that have not been inspected by the USDA so you cannot claim the meat unless the meat processor has been inspected and is allowed to use the USDA stamp. You are also not allowed to claim eggs that you get unless they too ahve under gone an inspection process to make sure they are ok.
I have some good links about these rules and will look them up and post them here in a bit.
Like spaghetti, I can claim a grain and a fruit (tomatoes). But you can only claim one per food group. Like you couldnt claim 2 fruit/veg because you used tomatoes and green peppers.
Here is a thing from the CACFP that says if they have the proper amounts in each serving they can be counted towards, all three groups.
Attached:
parfait food program.pdf (555.8 KB)
Blackcat31 09:43 AM 03-12-2012
Originally Posted by MrsB:
I am a little confused too, because a recipe book, I received from CACFP that has the breakdown of what you can claim per recipe has more than one food group in it.
Like spaghetti, I can claim a grain and a fruit (tomatoes). But you can only claim one per food group. Like you couldnt claim 2 fruit/veg because you used tomatoes and green peppers.
Here is a thing from the CACFP that says if they have the proper amounts in each serving they can be counted towards, all three groups.
I have that book too, but two ingredients are still the max allowable to claim. I am a little confused too, because a recipe book, I received from CACFP that has the breakdown of what you can claim per recipe has more than one food group in it.
Like spaghetti, I can claim a grain and a fruit (tomatoes). But you can only claim one per food group. Like you couldnt claim 2 fruit/veg because you used tomatoes and green peppers.
Here is a thing from the CACFP that says if they have the proper amounts in each serving they can be counted towards, all three groups.
In the area after each recipe it says how to credit and I think it gets confusing because they are using the words "and/or". For example under the fruit parfait it says the yougurt, the milk and the fruit can be counted towards the veggie, milk and/or meat group.
My rep when explaining this stuff says the and/or means yogurt can be milk and/or meat but whatever I categorize it under it can only be one OR the other and I can still only count 2 ingredients.
I don't see anywhere in the book that says you can count all three groups. Just the reapeated "and/or" phrase.
iheartkids 10:12 AM 03-12-2012
It must depend on the area or the rep cause I just started on the program and I was told I can claim TWO food groups with combined dishes but not three. So for spaghetti I can either claim the meat/veg, veg/bread or meat/bread. I asked about measurements and she said as long as I have the right amount on hand to give if they want more than the measurements I serve doesnt matter. So I can give them Two green beans as long as I have more to give them if they want more. So I would say you can count the smoothie as a fruit as long as you have another banana to give them if they do want more.
Blackcat31 11:49 AM 03-12-2012
Originally Posted by iheartkids:
It must depend on the area or the rep cause I just started on the program and I was told I can claim TWO food groups with combined dishes but not three. So for spaghetti I can either claim the meat/veg, veg/bread or meat/bread. I asked about measurements and she said as long as I have the right amount on hand to give if they want more than the measurements I serve doesnt matter. So I can give them Two green beans as long as I have more to give them if they want more. So I would say you can count the smoothie as a fruit as long as you have another banana to give them if they do want more.
I don't think that (bolded) part is an area thing. I got that info off the USDA web site and they govern ALL food program agencies.It must depend on the area or the rep cause I just started on the program and I was told I can claim TWO food groups with combined dishes but not three. So for spaghetti I can either claim the meat/veg, veg/bread or meat/bread. I asked about measurements and she said as long as I have the right amount on hand to give if they want more than the measurements I serve doesnt matter. So I can give them Two green beans as long as I have more to give them if they want more. So I would say you can count the smoothie as a fruit as long as you have another banana to give them if they do want more.
MrsB 12:14 PM 03-12-2012
Yeah the food program is government mandated rules. Maybe each rep is interpretting it differently!
MrsB 12:31 PM 03-12-2012
I found my old book (I dont do the food program any more, too much a PIA) and Black Cat is right. Only 2 ingredients can be counted per dish. I have notes that say it has to be measured too. So you couldn't claim store bought strawberry yogury as a dairy and fruit because you dont know how much fruit you are serving. But you could cut up fresh strawberries and put them in plain yogurt and count both.
So back to OP questions. If you are making smoothies you can claim both the milk and banana but you need to make sure that the serving size is correct. So if you have 4 kids you need to make it with at least 4 serving sizes of bananas and 4 serving sizes of milk. Just be careful, with the meal you are claiming. Are you serving it in a meal that requires the milk to be liquid. Not sure if this would count
So back to OP questions. If you are making smoothies you can claim both the milk and banana but you need to make sure that the serving size is correct. So if you have 4 kids you need to make it with at least 4 serving sizes of bananas and 4 serving sizes of milk. Just be careful, with the meal you are claiming. Are you serving it in a meal that requires the milk to be liquid. Not sure if this would count
DCBlessings27 12:42 PM 03-12-2012
I'm wondering if it depends on the rep since the food program is a federal program. My rep said that I can claim 3 of the 4 meal components from a casserole/dish. So, I can claim tater tots, ground beef, corn for tater tot casserole as long as I have made it with enough of servings of each ingredient. If it was chicken noodle soup, I wouldn't be allowed to claim just the soup if I wanted to claim: celery, noodles, carrots, chicken. My rep says that 1 component of the meal must be separate so that I have offered something besides the casserole/dish in case the child doesn't like the casserole/dish.
For OP, I agree with the others. As long as you have used the correct serving size of fruit and milk, you could count as fruit and milk for a snack.
For OP, I agree with the others. As long as you have used the correct serving size of fruit and milk, you could count as fruit and milk for a snack.
Blackcat31 01:20 PM 03-12-2012
Originally Posted by katieica:
I'm wondering if it depends on the rep since the food program is a federal program. My rep said that I can claim 3 of the 4 meal components from a casserole/dish. So, I can claim tater tots, ground beef, corn for tater tot casserole as long as I have made it with enough of servings of each ingredient. If it was chicken noodle soup, I wouldn't be allowed to claim just the soup if I wanted to claim: celery, noodles, carrots, chicken. My rep says that 1 component of the meal must be separate so that I have offered something besides the casserole/dish in case the child doesn't like the casserole/dish.
For OP, I agree with the others. As long as you have used the correct serving size of fruit and milk, you could count as fruit and milk for a snack.
Honestly, I would double check that your rep is interpreting this info correctly. It IS confusing but the USDA federal web-site says ONLY 2 components in combination dishes can be counted. The wording is hazy so I am not doubting that your rep said you can count 3 things, I am just saying she probably mis-interpreted. I'm wondering if it depends on the rep since the food program is a federal program. My rep said that I can claim 3 of the 4 meal components from a casserole/dish. So, I can claim tater tots, ground beef, corn for tater tot casserole as long as I have made it with enough of servings of each ingredient. If it was chicken noodle soup, I wouldn't be allowed to claim just the soup if I wanted to claim: celery, noodles, carrots, chicken. My rep says that 1 component of the meal must be separate so that I have offered something besides the casserole/dish in case the child doesn't like the casserole/dish.
For OP, I agree with the others. As long as you have used the correct serving size of fruit and milk, you could count as fruit and milk for a snack.
I just submitted an e-mail to the USDA site and will post when I receive an answer.
I also called my food program rep just to double check and she says that I can only claim 2 components in a combination dish and as far as she knows that is a federal rule not an area one.
She also said she would rather not comment on other people's interpretations of the program. LOL!!
familyschoolcare 04:57 PM 03-12-2012
The food program is federal funded but run by the states so each state has slightly different rules. What my rep told me was that the federal
goverenment comes out with the guidlines/recomendations and each state chooses what and how to use them.
goverenment comes out with the guidlines/recomendations and each state chooses what and how to use them.
iheartkids 10:38 AM 03-13-2012
Ok so here's a wierd question. Lets say I am serving Tator Tot casserole...could I just bake the casserole with the hamburger and tots and serve the vegetables seperate? And spaghetti...make it with the sauce and noodles then serve the hamburger on the side? Would I then be able to count all three components?? Sorry OP I'm kind of going off on a tangent from your question...
MarinaVanessa 10:53 AM 03-13-2012
Yep, it's so wierd how it works. I always serve spaghetti and count the noodles, meat and the sauce. All I have to do is serve the milk and add another fruit or vegetable on the side to complete the lunch meal. My sponsor always approves it.
littlemommy 12:15 PM 03-13-2012
Originally Posted by iheartkids:
Ok so here's a wierd question. Lets say I am serving Tator Tot casserole...could I just bake the casserole with the hamburger and tots and serve the vegetables seperate? And spaghetti...make it with the sauce and noodles then serve the hamburger on the side? Would I then be able to count all three components?? Sorry OP I'm kind of going off on a tangent from your question...
I asked my rep and she said claiming them all (in one dish) is fine. And honestly, how would they know whether you are serving them as one dish or separately unless they come for a visit? I just enter what ingredients make up my meal, I don't have to write that it was tator tot casserole, so they wouldn't even know.Ok so here's a wierd question. Lets say I am serving Tator Tot casserole...could I just bake the casserole with the hamburger and tots and serve the vegetables seperate? And spaghetti...make it with the sauce and noodles then serve the hamburger on the side? Would I then be able to count all three components?? Sorry OP I'm kind of going off on a tangent from your question...
grandmom 02:29 PM 03-13-2012
[quote=Blackcat31;206683]I was wrong though about how many components you can claim...it says 2 MAX.
So you could claim a veggie and a meat if you made lasagna but you can't claim the noodles as a grain too and claim more than 2 components.
It depends on your state. Washington says :
Combination foods served as an entree or main dish may be credited as the meat/meat alternatie plus a maximum of two of the required meal components if amounts of each are suficient to meet meal pattern requirements.
Examples:
Beef Stew with beef, carrots, potatoes, and onions; credit as:
1. Meat/meat alternate component
2. Fruit/vegetable component
3. Fruit/vegetable component
They also list chef salad with egg, turkey, cheese, lettuce tomatoes, celery, and cucumber as meat, and 2 vegetables.
How can USDA have two different interpretations? I got my info from p73 of
http:http://www.k12wa.us/ChildNutrition/p...R2007FINAL.pdf
which was a direct link from my food sponsor.
So you could claim a veggie and a meat if you made lasagna but you can't claim the noodles as a grain too and claim more than 2 components.
It depends on your state. Washington says :
Combination foods served as an entree or main dish may be credited as the meat/meat alternatie plus a maximum of two of the required meal components if amounts of each are suficient to meet meal pattern requirements.
Examples:
Beef Stew with beef, carrots, potatoes, and onions; credit as:
1. Meat/meat alternate component
2. Fruit/vegetable component
3. Fruit/vegetable component
They also list chef salad with egg, turkey, cheese, lettuce tomatoes, celery, and cucumber as meat, and 2 vegetables.
How can USDA have two different interpretations? I got my info from p73 of
http:http://www.k12wa.us/ChildNutrition/p...R2007FINAL.pdf
which was a direct link from my food sponsor.
Blackcat31 02:48 PM 03-13-2012
Originally Posted by grandmom;207241It depends on your state. Washington says :
Combination foods served as an entree or main dish may be credited as the meat/meat alternatie plus a maximum of two of the required meal components if amounts of each are suficient to meet meal pattern requirements.
Examples:
Beef Stew with beef, carrots, potatoes, and onions; credit as:
1. Meat/meat alternate component
2. Fruit/vegetable component
3. Fruit/vegetable component
They also list chef salad with egg, turkey, cheese, lettuce tomatoes, celery, and cucumber as meat, and 2 vegetables.
How can USDA have two different interpretations? I got my info from p73 of
http:[url:
www.k12wa.us/ChildNutrition/pubdocs/CredibleFoodsGuideMAR2007FINAL.pdf[/url]
which was a direct link from my food sponsor.
The link you provided is for your state. I ONLY said that each state/agency differs in how they interpret things. I didn't say the USDA has two different interpretations. The link I posted with the info saying a MAX of 2 components in a combination dish was directly from the USDA web-site NOT my state one. MY state chooses to only allow us to claim 2 ingredients in a combination dish. Obviously other states allow you to claim more. Combination foods served as an entree or main dish may be credited as the meat/meat alternatie plus a maximum of two of the required meal components if amounts of each are suficient to meet meal pattern requirements.
Examples:
Beef Stew with beef, carrots, potatoes, and onions; credit as:
1. Meat/meat alternate component
2. Fruit/vegetable component
3. Fruit/vegetable component
They also list chef salad with egg, turkey, cheese, lettuce tomatoes, celery, and cucumber as meat, and 2 vegetables.
How can USDA have two different interpretations? I got my info from p73 of
http:[url:
www.k12wa.us/ChildNutrition/pubdocs/CredibleFoodsGuideMAR2007FINAL.pdf[/url]
which was a direct link from my food sponsor.
As I said before, I e-mailed the USDA and asked them specifically about this issue and this is the response I received today:
Hello,
Your request to USDA’s Ask the Expert asking for clarification about the meal component requirement for CACFP was forwarded to the Healthy Meals Resource System.
While the CACFP is regulated by USDA, it is administered by the individual states. Program requirements may differ slightly between states. Please contact your State Agency that oversees the CACFP.
If your CACFP coordinator has any questions about USDA program regulations, they should contact their ageny supervisor or contact us directly.
You will find other useful information and resources on the Healthy Meals Resource System website at: http://healthymeals.nal.usda.gov.
Sincerely,
Natalie
Natalie U. Partridge, MS, RD
Software Evaluation Coordinator for
Nutrient Standard Menu Planning Software
301-504-5414
hmrs@ars.usda.gov
http://healthymeals.nal.usda.gov
So, I called my food program rep and asked her and she again clarified that in my state I am only allowed to claim 2 MAX components of combination dishes as that is how our state agency is choosing to interpret what the rules are.
I would suggest that any time a provider who participates in the food program is not sure of something, they should contact their state agency for clarification as this is a perfect example of how each state has it's own way of doing things.
littlemommy 11:22 AM 03-14-2012
Thanks BlackCat!!