I know this has been discussed before, but I'm looking for suggestions.

Dcm of 2 yo dcg wants to quit doing naps at home and implied she wants me to do the same.

Let me back up and say that she said this at pick up Friday because dcg was screaming her head off because dcm was putting her shoes on for her, which isn't normal for her. Dcm sighed and said this is how dcg always acts in the afternoon and so she blames dcg's poor mood on napping because she apparently is always fussier after nap.

I told dcm that this isn't true at daycare, as dcg's mood always improves after nap unless she didn't get a chance to nap long enough (ie, another child wakes her up early). She always falls asleep within 5 minutes of laying down without me even getting a chance to read her the nap time story.

Dcm disagreed and said dcg takes hours to fall asleep at home so she is thinking dcg doesn't need a nap anymore.

Dcg gets 8 hours of sleep a night.

I think the problem is that dcg lacks sleep and is overtired. I told dcm this but she disagrees saying that if dcg is awake, it must mean she doesn't need to sleep.

Is there some sort of handout I can give to dcm on this topic?

I worry that if dcg doesn't get proper sleep at home, her mood will get worse here. She already has been meltdown central lately and I think lack of sleep will make it worse. I suggested taking dcg to the dr and talking about her nap/bedtime routine or even melatonin.

I don't want to lose dcg because dcm and I don't agree on removing nap for dcg. I am not keeping her up to appease dcm as obviously her inability to fall asleep at home is not due to too much sleep...at least, that only seems to be my opinion. Dcg is an absolute drama queen until she gets her nap...then she is the happiest child on earth...

Reply

Kids 1-3 yrs old require 10-12 hrs a day not 8

Give her that info

http://www.webmd.com/parenting/guide/sleep-children

Reply

I don't even put that up for discussion. First of all, our state regs kindly say that all children under 5 who are in care over 4 hours MUST be offered a rest or nap period. Those children who are not asleep after 30 minutes will be offered quiet activities.

What are your regs?

Reply

Yeah. I told dcm that she's not getting enough sleep and dcm said dcg gets up on her own after 8 hours and won't nap at home and instead plays in her crib so dcm doesn't seem to want to discuss it further.

How do I broach the topic?

Do I just wait and see if her behavior gets worse here? She already is pretty moody in the mornings...cries about everything that usually didn't bug her...

Or do I just wait until she insists on no nap here? I know it's coming because whenever dcg sleeps 2 hours here (and I'm stupid enough to comment on her happiness after such a nap), dcm complains the next day that dcg took hours to go to sleep at night. I always respond that she must've been overtired since ds did the same thing when he wasn't sleeping enough and then she drops it...

Classic no-nap parent...

Reply

My handbook states that all children 4 and under will lie down for a quiet time. If they are awake after 30 minutes, then they can get up and have quiet play time. Any time that a DCP asks for no nap, I refer to the handbook that they signed.

They children need that quiet time and I need that quiet time. It is not a negotiable item. If you want your child in my DC, then your child will follow my schedules and policies.

Reply

"Sure dcm, I'll stop naps." Then continue napping her as normal.

Reply

She knows this isn't up for discussion so I think that's why she's testing the waters with her daily comments. I have had non-nappers before but only because they were capable of not having a nap and not being fussy about it. Now my policy is that if a child doesn't need a rest period then they aren't a good fit for my program. It was just too stressful trying to keep non-nappers from not waking the nappers...plus school aged kids just were always way too much energy for the littles...

Also, this dcg is here 2-3 days a week so her home schedule definitely affects her daycare schedule and mood...so we shall see...

Reply

I learned a long time ago that there isn't a whole lot you can do to change parents habits at home. When she broaches the subject with you about naps at your place, tell her your regs or your policies. Don't engage.

Reply

Some sources raise that number to 12-14. 8 is absolutely not enough. http://sleepfoundation.org/sleep-top...ep/page/0%2C1/

Reply

My daughter stopped napping at 3. Having said that, when a parent brings it up to me, I always say the same thing and that is that I don't require them to sleep, but they are required to have time on their mat. If they fall asleep, then I guess he/she is tired. Oh and I don't wake them up if they fall asleep.

Reply

If she starts insisting on it then stick to your policy. Tell her that per state regs YOU are required to offer children a rest period. If she falls asleep she is tired and won't be woken, as mentioned above. Then end the conversation.

If mom is persistent maybe reply with "I guess this isn't going to work out then, since I am not willing to break state regulations.

Showing her the links mentioned above probably won't help since she will likely say that her child is one of the exceptions. The information says "most" children need this amount of sleep per day. Her child will naturally fall in the minority of those who don't

Reply

I have this same mom, and this is how I handled it. If a child falls asleep, they're allowed to sleep. I gave her all the literature in the world, including studies about how naps are beneficial. She insisted her kid only needed 6-8 hours a day, and how that's all she needed, and I couldn't change her mind AT ALL. They don't nap him on weekends, because they simply don't allow him to sleep. She says the car makes him tired because he falls asleep every time he's in it. This child is CHRONICALLY sleep deprived. He gets WILD without a nap- which is more evidence for her that he's 'obviously not tired'.

At 4, he's carried in very cranky every morning and naps until breakfast, he can barely open his eyes.

On Monday and Tuesday he naps a good 3 hours here, sometimes 4. I just check off that he napped now, and don't list an actual time.

No matter how short or long he naps here, he NEVER goes to bed before 10-11, simply because they have ZERO discipline and don't have a decent routine. They put him in his room at 8:30, and the kid has access to his TV, tablet, and toys until he literally passes out.

Ok, rant over. I would just tell her you are required to offer a rest period and if she falls asleep, you aren't legally able to wake her as that is withholding basic needs (rest) and you could be cited.

Reply

Only if you are willing to care for a non napping child, I would do the following:

Offer to update DCF’s contract to include specialized care fee.

Insert your daycare’s name is a group care program. Provider is not a nanny. Specialized care requests will result in an additional $150.00 and up per month fee added to monthly fees to be paid in advance. Specialized care includes any parental request that adds to provider’s work load, such as (not limited to) potty training, no naps, etc . Please keep in mind no one child or family’s requests or needs outweigh the needs of the group.

Reply

I'm sorry, but I would not entertain this conversation for a TWO year old. Three, three and a half, probably- but at two, this child needs a nap! I think you have 2 options (already mentioned): tell dcm about regs and that it's non negotiable or just tell her you will stop nap, and don't. I have actually had one child that just wouldn't nap at age 2- I put her on her mat, and most of the time she would stay up. However, yours is falling asleep within 5 minutes, so she needs it. Why do parents do this to their kids?! What are you supposed to do? Keep her eyes physically open?!

Reply

Thanks for all the feedback!

I haven't seen dcm yet this week so we shall see how it goes. I think I'll offer sleep info if she asks but otherwise I think you guys are right...she'll probably ignore it since she thinks her newly 2 yo is an exception...

I am not willing to force dcg to stay awake since she definitely needs her nap. She even is asking for a nap as soon as lunch is over and I think she'd sleep for over the 2 hour rest period if I let her.

I'm not sure if I could get her to sign a new contract with her as dcg will not stay awake so I can't really offer that service...even if there is a lot of noise as we get ready for nap, dcg falls asleep...but suggesting I charge extra for labeling dcg as a "non-napper" might get her to stop bringing it up...although she knows I still require a quiet rest period...

Maybe this will resolve itself after dcm cuts out more sleep for dcg at home...she has been complaining that she has to get up earlier lately because dcg is so crabby in the morning.

Dcm thinks that obviously dcg is crabby in the mornings because she is tired from lack of sleep but dcm thinks crabbiness after naps is from being forced to nap...

I just don't get her thinking...

Reply

Maybe, if she brings it up again, you can ask her what her bedtime routines are.

Is the house relatively quiet?

Do you have a ritual? Spend a little one-on-one time with her? 15 minutes in her room with the lights turned down and just one parent to quietly read to her or sing some lullabies might make all the difference.

Does LO feel like she's missing something? If Dad's got the tv cranked up, all the lights are on, and there are other people obviously up, maybe she just doesn't want to miss anything.

Basically, is their home condusive to a child going to bed and to sleep?

Oh, and you might also point out that if she stops napping at daycare, you could bet money that she'll either fall asleep in the car on the way home, or on the sofa while mom is making dinner. Then, she'll crank her way through dinner, wake up fully, and be REALLY wound up at bedtime.

My kiddos all sleep about 10 hours a night and take 3 hour naps every day. Occasionally, it's a little less than that.

What time are they putting her to bed if she's only getting 8 hours of sleep? That sound suspiciously like she goes to bed when her parents do. Co-sleeping?

Reply

Thanks for the thoughts. All I know is dcg gets 8 hours in her crib, so I suggested a toddler bed because ds hated his crib and slept well in his toddler bed at that age. So I dunno...she didn't bring it up today and it was the same routine with dcg. I kinda scooted everyone out the door quickly today.

Reply

Ugh, that tough when the parent does not agree. Children need 12 hours of sleep a night. I really subscribe to the theory that sleep begets sleep. To be honest 2 is to young to give up taking a nap. I have a 3 y/o dc boy(well he is closer to 3 1/2) and he only comes 1 day a week because he is home with Dad and he goes to preschool 2 days a week. Mom has said that he has been skipping his nap at home quite a bit but then he is tired by 6:00pm. I dread the day that he gives up his nap here. When that happens I' am in big trouble. I think children should nap as long (age wise) as possible. I have always thought that kids these days these days are really under rested. Parents think they don't need the sleep. There is a book that I use as a guide called healthy sleep habits, happy child. It goes from new born on up. Talks about how to solve sleep problems and breaks down how much sleep each age group should be getting. I have actually had a few parents borrow it. You could always pull the old "well the regs state that kids cant be forced to stay awake and see how that flys. Good luck with that parent.

Reply

Ok so the parent knows this from grumpiness. I had one like that. But I also legitamately had a toddler with an irregular sleep cycle. More often than not it is the parents who royally screw up what is working for us or at least try to. Find out the bedtimes and decide. If child wants to sleep let her. If child is groggy at pick up you can set her nap earlier if possible and see if that works. Give parent literature. Say something that learning and development are adversely effected with less sleep. Recommend Sleepless in America. Naps improve child's ability to go to bed at night if at the right time.

The toddler with the irregular sleep cycle had nothing to do with me or the parents just a 12 hour on 12 hour off kind of sleeping 7pm bed 7am awake. It took us both a while to figure out on both ends but it was just him. Parents really wanted that extra hour at night with there child but.

Reply

"DCB has outgrown naps? Oh...then he has outgrown our daycare. I assume this is your 2 weeks notice.......???"

Then wait for the hurried back-tracking....

Reply

I'll have to remember this line

Reply

I was just thinking, in my policies it says all children will have a rest period daily, even if they don't sleep they are still required to lay down and rest.

I think I will change this to "I am required by the state to give every child a rest period daily". Then when this subject comes up I can refer them back to where it says I am required by the state...

Reply