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Daycare Center and Family Home Forum>how to handle dcg lying
mamamanda 07:27 AM 09-21-2015
How would you handle a 5 yo repeatedly lying to you about things? Should I address it or just make a non issue out of it. I catch her in a lie quite often now. At snack time one of the kids ate all of their snack. (I typically just do healthy stuff...fruits, veggies, 1/2 sandwich, etc.) I found some healthier all natural fruit snacks at the store this week & told those that ate their healthy food and were still hungry they could try a couple. She told me she ate all of her food and when I turned around to give her a couple I noticed that she had a wad of food shoved under her plate with her hand covering it. She still tried to tell me she had ate it and wasn't hiding anything.
She wants me to wipe her bottom after she poops each time and I explained to her that 5 year olds are big enough to do that on their own. I am happy to help if she truly has a problem, but she won't even try. So she told me she tried and couldn't get it and I needed to wipe it. I looked in the potty and there was no toilet paper. I asked her where it was if she already wiped and she told me that it had already gone down the potty. I explained to her that if she had flushed the potty the poop wouldn't be there either at which point she said fine and wiped her bottom.
This is becoming a norm for her and she tattles on kids for things they don't do or tells them to do something against the rules and the second they do it she yells for me to look and see them disobeying. All the while, I've been watching the whole thing and saw her instigate it all. So I give her the time out, or take away the privilege, or whatnot but it continues. When I brought it up to mom (amongst a myriad of other problems) she says that dcg is still young and doesn't realize that she's lying. She's just trying out the difference between what's real and pretend. I don't buy it b/c if she didn't know that it was wrong or that she was lying she wouldn't be trying to hide it or cover it up when I discover the truth. How would you handle this?
All of the children from this family struggle with so many issues. I'm honestly ready to call it done, but I've tried so hard to make a difference and I feel like I've failed.
She wants me to wipe her bottom after she poops each time and I explained to her that 5 year olds are big enough to do that on their own. I am happy to help if she truly has a problem, but she won't even try. So she told me she tried and couldn't get it and I needed to wipe it. I looked in the potty and there was no toilet paper. I asked her where it was if she already wiped and she told me that it had already gone down the potty. I explained to her that if she had flushed the potty the poop wouldn't be there either at which point she said fine and wiped her bottom.
This is becoming a norm for her and she tattles on kids for things they don't do or tells them to do something against the rules and the second they do it she yells for me to look and see them disobeying. All the while, I've been watching the whole thing and saw her instigate it all. So I give her the time out, or take away the privilege, or whatnot but it continues. When I brought it up to mom (amongst a myriad of other problems) she says that dcg is still young and doesn't realize that she's lying. She's just trying out the difference between what's real and pretend. I don't buy it b/c if she didn't know that it was wrong or that she was lying she wouldn't be trying to hide it or cover it up when I discover the truth. How would you handle this?
All of the children from this family struggle with so many issues. I'm honestly ready to call it done, but I've tried so hard to make a difference and I feel like I've failed.
Blackcat31 07:32 AM 09-21-2015
Originally Posted by mamamanda:
How would you handle a 5 yo repeatedly lying to you about things? Should I address it or just make a non issue out of it. I catch her in a lie quite often now. At snack time one of the kids ate all of their snack. (I typically just do healthy stuff...fruits, veggies, 1/2 sandwich, etc.) I found some healthier all natural fruit snacks at the store this week & told those that ate their healthy food and were still hungry they could try a couple. She told me she ate all of her food and when I turned around to give her a couple I noticed that she had a wad of food shoved under her plate with her hand covering it. She still tried to tell me she had ate it and wasn't hiding anything.
She wants me to wipe her bottom after she poops each time and I explained to her that 5 year olds are big enough to do that on their own. I am happy to help if she truly has a problem, but she won't even try. So she told me she tried and couldn't get it and I needed to wipe it. I looked in the potty and there was no toilet paper. I asked her where it was if she already wiped and she told me that it had already gone down the potty. I explained to her that if she had flushed the potty the poop wouldn't be there either at which point she said fine and wiped her bottom.
This is becoming a norm for her and she tattles on kids for things they don't do or tells them to do something against the rules and the second they do it she yells for me to look and see them disobeying. All the while, I've been watching the whole thing and saw her instigate it all. So I give her the time out, or take away the privilege, or whatnot but it continues. When I brought it up to mom (amongst a myriad of other problems) she says that dcg is still young and doesn't realize that she's lying. She's just trying out the difference between what's real and pretend. I don't buy it b/c if she didn't know that it was wrong or that she was lying she wouldn't be trying to hide it or cover it up when I discover the truth. How would you handle this?
All of the children from this family struggle with so many issues. I'm honestly ready to call it done, but I've tried so hard to make a difference and I feel like I've failed.
You did NOT fail. How would you handle a 5 yo repeatedly lying to you about things? Should I address it or just make a non issue out of it. I catch her in a lie quite often now. At snack time one of the kids ate all of their snack. (I typically just do healthy stuff...fruits, veggies, 1/2 sandwich, etc.) I found some healthier all natural fruit snacks at the store this week & told those that ate their healthy food and were still hungry they could try a couple. She told me she ate all of her food and when I turned around to give her a couple I noticed that she had a wad of food shoved under her plate with her hand covering it. She still tried to tell me she had ate it and wasn't hiding anything.
She wants me to wipe her bottom after she poops each time and I explained to her that 5 year olds are big enough to do that on their own. I am happy to help if she truly has a problem, but she won't even try. So she told me she tried and couldn't get it and I needed to wipe it. I looked in the potty and there was no toilet paper. I asked her where it was if she already wiped and she told me that it had already gone down the potty. I explained to her that if she had flushed the potty the poop wouldn't be there either at which point she said fine and wiped her bottom.
This is becoming a norm for her and she tattles on kids for things they don't do or tells them to do something against the rules and the second they do it she yells for me to look and see them disobeying. All the while, I've been watching the whole thing and saw her instigate it all. So I give her the time out, or take away the privilege, or whatnot but it continues. When I brought it up to mom (amongst a myriad of other problems) she says that dcg is still young and doesn't realize that she's lying. She's just trying out the difference between what's real and pretend. I don't buy it b/c if she didn't know that it was wrong or that she was lying she wouldn't be trying to hide it or cover it up when I discover the truth. How would you handle this?
All of the children from this family struggle with so many issues. I'm honestly ready to call it done, but I've tried so hard to make a difference and I feel like I've failed.
Your "answer" is in your own post.
You tried hard to make a difference with these kids.
Mom insists the child doesn't know any better.
Mom is undermining everything you've done to make a difference.
Do you still want to continue?
If a parent isn't understanding why something is an issue, makes excuses to justify their child's bad/negative behaviors and feels there is nothing wrong or nothing that needs "fixing" or addressing, then I am out.
I will not paddle upstream on my own. I just won't.
....especially when it's for someone else's benefit.
ChelseaB 08:11 AM 09-21-2015
Originally Posted by Blackcat31:
You did NOT fail.
Your "answer" is in your own post.
You tried hard to make a difference with these kids.
Mom insists the child doesn't know any better.
Mom is undermining everything you've done to make a difference.
Do you still want to continue?
If a parent isn't understanding why something is an issue, makes excuses to justify their child's bad/negative behaviors and feels there is nothing wrong or nothing that needs "fixing" or addressing, then I am out.
I will not paddle upstream on my own. I just won't.
....especially when it's for someone else's benefit.
This! You did NOT fail.
Your "answer" is in your own post.
You tried hard to make a difference with these kids.
Mom insists the child doesn't know any better.
Mom is undermining everything you've done to make a difference.
Do you still want to continue?
If a parent isn't understanding why something is an issue, makes excuses to justify their child's bad/negative behaviors and feels there is nothing wrong or nothing that needs "fixing" or addressing, then I am out.
I will not paddle upstream on my own. I just won't.
....especially when it's for someone else's benefit.
And I had a similar situation as yours -- DCB 5 who used to attend would routinely lie, break the rules, and encourage others to do the same. No matter how often I corrected him, he continued his pattern. And DCM was on board and did her part at home (that I know of). Needless to say, I was not sorry to see them go. And it's a relief now!
But in general, children (especially that age) do know what they're doing. My very own step kids are some of the best at this game. They understand how to manipulate to get what they want, so they do it. They may not understand the depth of it all, and they don't necessarily do it with malicious intent. However, they understand what they want and do what they can to get it. They understand it's wrong at least, that's why they are learning to lie. Honestly, I never figured out how to handle lying with ex DCB, but I continuously enforced time outs, loss of privilege, and attempted more positive reinforcement with him. Nothing worked. He still lied blatantly about anything. Good luck though! I hope you're able to work it out!
Ariana 09:44 AM 09-21-2015
At this age kids start to lie, it is VERY common. They begin to understand that other people cannot read their thoughts so it becomes almost like a game to them. I have a 5 year old who does the same thing. He told us how he had a few siblings that he doesn't really have and several other things. I decided to tell the story of The Boy Who Cried Wolf and the we discussed it. We talked about how lying can get you in trouble because when you tell the truth no one will believe you.
I don't chastise or get angry with lying 5 year olds because it is a natural progression of development. I do try and teach a lesson to let them know that lying is not a good choice.
I don't chastise or get angry with lying 5 year olds because it is a natural progression of development. I do try and teach a lesson to let them know that lying is not a good choice.
mamamanda 10:50 AM 09-21-2015
Originally Posted by Ariana:
At this age kids start to lie, it is VERY common. They begin to understand that other people cannot read their thoughts so it becomes almost like a game to them. I have a 5 year old who does the same thing. He told us how he had a few siblings that he doesn't really have and several other things. I decided to tell the story of The Boy Who Cried Wolf and the we discussed it. We talked about how lying can get you in trouble because when you tell the truth no one will believe you.
I don't chastise or get angry with lying 5 year olds because it is a natural progression of development. I do try and teach a lesson to let them know that lying is not a good choice.
I do understand that they are learning the difference between real life and make believe. My ds often tells me his dinosaurs are reading to him, or they are building with his blocks, or that he's pulling his friends around on a sled when they're not really here. He's actually commented to me that he knows his toys aren't real, but when he plays with them they become real. We talked about that quite a bit and how its fun to pretend, but he also understands that lying to get someone in trouble is wrong, as is not answering honestly when you're asked if you've done something. IMO, there's a big difference in pretending and making up stories to go along with your line of play and lying to get someone in trouble or to get what you want or to keep yourself out of trouble when you know you've broken a rule. Dcg has learned to put on a big scene. She will cry and carry on that someone pushed her/kicked her/etc and ask repeatedly for me to "give them timeout" and I watched the whole thing and know for fact they weren't even near her. This is the part of the behavior that's concerning for me.At this age kids start to lie, it is VERY common. They begin to understand that other people cannot read their thoughts so it becomes almost like a game to them. I have a 5 year old who does the same thing. He told us how he had a few siblings that he doesn't really have and several other things. I decided to tell the story of The Boy Who Cried Wolf and the we discussed it. We talked about how lying can get you in trouble because when you tell the truth no one will believe you.
I don't chastise or get angry with lying 5 year olds because it is a natural progression of development. I do try and teach a lesson to let them know that lying is not a good choice.
Unregistered 10:58 AM 09-21-2015
Originally Posted by mamamanda:
I do understand that they are learning the difference between real life and make believe. My ds often tells me his dinosaurs are reading to him, or they are building with his blocks, or that he's pulling his friends around on a sled when they're not really here. He's actually commented to me that he knows his toys aren't real, but when he plays with them they become real. We talked about that quite a bit and how its fun to pretend, but he also understands that lying to get someone in trouble is wrong, as is not answering honestly when you're asked if you've done something. IMO, there's a big difference in pretending and making up stories to go along with your line of play and lying to get someone in trouble or to get what you want or to keep yourself out of trouble when you know you've broken a rule. Dcg has learned to put on a big scene. She will cry and carry on that someone pushed her/kicked her/etc and ask repeatedly for me to "give them timeout" and I watched the whole thing and know for fact they weren't even near her. This is the part of the behavior that's concerning for me.
Very manipulative....I do understand that they are learning the difference between real life and make believe. My ds often tells me his dinosaurs are reading to him, or they are building with his blocks, or that he's pulling his friends around on a sled when they're not really here. He's actually commented to me that he knows his toys aren't real, but when he plays with them they become real. We talked about that quite a bit and how its fun to pretend, but he also understands that lying to get someone in trouble is wrong, as is not answering honestly when you're asked if you've done something. IMO, there's a big difference in pretending and making up stories to go along with your line of play and lying to get someone in trouble or to get what you want or to keep yourself out of trouble when you know you've broken a rule. Dcg has learned to put on a big scene. She will cry and carry on that someone pushed her/kicked her/etc and ask repeatedly for me to "give them timeout" and I watched the whole thing and know for fact they weren't even near her. This is the part of the behavior that's concerning for me.
Unregistered 11:01 AM 09-21-2015
Time out every single lie.
Take away big kid privileges, and anything else you need to trust her on. Tell her why.
She is 5, she knows she is lying. It's not like she said she flew to the moon, she's trying to get someone else punished.
Take away big kid privileges, and anything else you need to trust her on. Tell her why.
She is 5, she knows she is lying. It's not like she said she flew to the moon, she's trying to get someone else punished.
Unregistered 11:02 AM 09-21-2015
Originally Posted by Blackcat31:
You did NOT fail.
Your "answer" is in your own post.
You tried hard to make a difference with these kids.
Mom insists the child doesn't know any better.
Mom is undermining everything you've done to make a difference.
Do you still want to continue?
If a parent isn't understanding why something is an issue, makes excuses to justify their child's bad/negative behaviors and feels there is nothing wrong or nothing that needs "fixing" or addressing, then I am out.
I will not paddle upstream on my own. I just won't.
....especially when it's for someone else's benefit.
So what do you do? Term? Or keep on? Ignore?You did NOT fail.
Your "answer" is in your own post.
You tried hard to make a difference with these kids.
Mom insists the child doesn't know any better.
Mom is undermining everything you've done to make a difference.
Do you still want to continue?
If a parent isn't understanding why something is an issue, makes excuses to justify their child's bad/negative behaviors and feels there is nothing wrong or nothing that needs "fixing" or addressing, then I am out.
I will not paddle upstream on my own. I just won't.
....especially when it's for someone else's benefit.
Blackcat31 11:14 AM 09-21-2015
Originally Posted by Unregistered:
So what do you do? Term? Or keep on? Ignore?
I would terminate services. So what do you do? Term? Or keep on? Ignore?
I cant do my job if parents won't do theirs.
The relationship between parent and provider has to support and compliment each other or we are both simply running opposite directions.
I try really hard to screen parents before enrolling. NOT because I think things must be done X way but because I am bound by certain regulations and requirements and also because what works at home does not work at child care or in group care and I have to always put the group and my liability first before anything else.
As sad as that seems, the age of providers that go that extra mile for parents is waning and IMHO will soon be non-existent other than in the parent-nanny relationship.
Unregistered 11:24 AM 09-21-2015
Originally Posted by Blackcat31:
I would terminate services.
I cant do my job if parents won't do theirs.
The relationship between parent and provider has to support and compliment each other or we are both simply running opposite directions.
I try really hard to screen parents before enrolling. NOT because I think things must be done X way but because I am bound by certain regulations and requirements and also because what works at home does not work at child care or in group care and I have to always put the group and my liability first before anything else.
As sad as that seems, the age of providers that go that extra mile for parents is waning and IMHO will soon be non-existent other than in the parent-nanny relationship.
I have 2 families like this. It's so frustrating to give my all to help their children suceed and only get excuses. Makes me wanna give up. Why do I care and the parents don't....I would terminate services.
I cant do my job if parents won't do theirs.
The relationship between parent and provider has to support and compliment each other or we are both simply running opposite directions.
I try really hard to screen parents before enrolling. NOT because I think things must be done X way but because I am bound by certain regulations and requirements and also because what works at home does not work at child care or in group care and I have to always put the group and my liability first before anything else.
As sad as that seems, the age of providers that go that extra mile for parents is waning and IMHO will soon be non-existent other than in the parent-nanny relationship.
Blackcat31 12:01 PM 09-21-2015
Originally Posted by Unregistered:
I have 2 families like this. It's so frustrating to give my all to help their children suceed and only get excuses. Makes me wanna give up. Why do I care and the parents don't....
Because they found someone who will do it for them.. I have 2 families like this. It's so frustrating to give my all to help their children suceed and only get excuses. Makes me wanna give up. Why do I care and the parents don't....
I dont mean that harshly towards you..
Just in general with parenting now days... I had a FT DCM that straight up told me that if she had to be a SAHM she would never have had 3 kids. I jokingly replied "but since I am the one that basically raises them its okay then"
She openly and without a tinge of remorse said "exactly"
Unregistered 01:03 PM 09-21-2015
Originally Posted by Blackcat31:
Because they found someone who will do it for them..
I dont mean that harshly towards you..
Just in general with parenting now days... I had a FT DCM that straight up told me that if she had to be a SAHM she would never have had 3 kids. I jokingly replied "but since I am the one that basically raises them its okay then"
She openly and without a tinge of remorse said "exactly"
I don't take it bad. I just need to change Because they found someone who will do it for them..
I dont mean that harshly towards you..
Just in general with parenting now days... I had a FT DCM that straight up told me that if she had to be a SAHM she would never have had 3 kids. I jokingly replied "but since I am the one that basically raises them its okay then"
She openly and without a tinge of remorse said "exactly"
nanglgrl 03:29 PM 09-21-2015
Originally Posted by Ariana:
At this age kids start to lie, it is VERY common. They begin to understand that other people cannot read their thoughts so it becomes almost like a game to them. I have a 5 year old who does the same thing. He told us how he had a few siblings that he doesn't really have and several other things. I decided to tell the story of The Boy Who Cried Wolf and the we discussed it. We talked about how lying can get you in trouble because when you tell the truth no one will believe you.
I don't chastise or get angry with lying 5 year olds because it is a natural progression of development. I do try and teach a lesson to let them know that lying is not a good choice.
At this age kids start to lie, it is VERY common. They begin to understand that other people cannot read their thoughts so it becomes almost like a game to them. I have a 5 year old who does the same thing. He told us how he had a few siblings that he doesn't really have and several other things. I decided to tell the story of The Boy Who Cried Wolf and the we discussed it. We talked about how lying can get you in trouble because when you tell the truth no one will believe you.
I don't chastise or get angry with lying 5 year olds because it is a natural progression of development. I do try and teach a lesson to let them know that lying is not a good choice.
I told my own sown the story of the boy who called wolf after my son repeatedly screamed for help when he didn't actually need any (freaking us all out). After the story my son thought it was funny to replace the pearling scream to screaming "Wolf! Wolf!"
Ariana 10:42 AM 09-22-2015
Originally Posted by mamamanda:
I do understand that they are learning the difference between real life and make believe. My ds often tells me his dinosaurs are reading to him, or they are building with his blocks, or that he's pulling his friends around on a sled when they're not really here. He's actually commented to me that he knows his toys aren't real, but when he plays with them they become real. We talked about that quite a bit and how its fun to pretend, but he also understands that lying to get someone in trouble is wrong, as is not answering honestly when you're asked if you've done something. IMO, there's a big difference in pretending and making up stories to go along with your line of play and lying to get someone in trouble or to get what you want or to keep yourself out of trouble when you know you've broken a rule. Dcg has learned to put on a big scene. She will cry and carry on that someone pushed her/kicked her/etc and ask repeatedly for me to "give them timeout" and I watched the whole thing and know for fact they weren't even near her. This is the part of the behavior that's concerning for me.
Pretend play is not at all like lying. Lying IS manipulation and kids are learning that they can manipulate by lying. Same way a two year old can learn to manipulate through tantrums. So I am absolutely not saying it is ok. I am simply saying it is natural and you will be hard pressed to find a child at 5 who doesn't lie some of the time. There is nothing wrong with this child and you are doing all you can to help them understand that lying is not acceptable. My niece was famous for it. She would say that another child ignored her and played without her when I was right there and witnessed her ignoring the other child and leaving her out. It was very frustrating to be sure.I do understand that they are learning the difference between real life and make believe. My ds often tells me his dinosaurs are reading to him, or they are building with his blocks, or that he's pulling his friends around on a sled when they're not really here. He's actually commented to me that he knows his toys aren't real, but when he plays with them they become real. We talked about that quite a bit and how its fun to pretend, but he also understands that lying to get someone in trouble is wrong, as is not answering honestly when you're asked if you've done something. IMO, there's a big difference in pretending and making up stories to go along with your line of play and lying to get someone in trouble or to get what you want or to keep yourself out of trouble when you know you've broken a rule. Dcg has learned to put on a big scene. She will cry and carry on that someone pushed her/kicked her/etc and ask repeatedly for me to "give them timeout" and I watched the whole thing and know for fact they weren't even near her. This is the part of the behavior that's concerning for me.
I guess I just wanted to let you know that you are not a miracle worker and if you are that frustrated than term. I guess for me I see it as a part of development that they will either grow out of or they won't. I am not going to break my back "forcing" a child to not lie as it is an impossible thing to accomplish with or without moms help. Shaming a child for lying is much worse than the lie itself in my opinion (not saying you are doing this). Reminding them that lying is wrong is all you can do. Lying will not lead to good things for her and she will eventually learn this.
Ariana 10:46 AM 09-22-2015
Originally Posted by Blackcat31:
Just in general with parenting now days... I had a FT DCM that straight up told me that if she had to be a SAHM she would never have had 3 kids. I jokingly replied "but since I am the one that basically raises them its okay then"
She openly and without a tinge of remorse said "exactly"
My sister in law is a perfect example of this! 3 kids a full time nanny at home eventhough all kids are in school and takes her parents on vacation with her everywhere they go....unless her and her husband go without the kids of course Just in general with parenting now days... I had a FT DCM that straight up told me that if she had to be a SAHM she would never have had 3 kids. I jokingly replied "but since I am the one that basically raises them its okay then"
She openly and without a tinge of remorse said "exactly"
Basically she is never ever ever one on one with her kids!