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  #1  
Old 07-23-2012, 12:02 PM
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Default Unvaccinated Child - wwyd?

I have my first ever prospective parents that have a child who is unvaccinated... and they do not plan to do this in the future either. I know the laws in my state, and I can watch her with a waiver. However, she is 10 months old, and in my care I also have a 2 months old infant. My main concern is the 10 month old bringing in something to the baby who is not old enough to have her shots.... also, I am concerned for my family home... and of course, the unvaccinated child becoming sick as well...

I know this is just a personal opinion thing, and that's what I'm asking for... FRIENDLY opinions.. what would you do? I really really like the family and the 10 month old a lot.
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Old 07-23-2012, 12:05 PM
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Here are a few other threads about this subject.

http://daycare.com/forum/tags.php?tag=non-immunized

...off to get some popcorn
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  #3  
Old 07-23-2012, 12:08 PM
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I really don't want popcorn... LOL. I want to take the child I just am not sure what the right choice is. Please don't flame me.
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Old 07-23-2012, 12:13 PM
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1. It's not *THAT* likely that the ten month old will bring in something...unvaxed does NOT equal dirty and disease-carrying

2. There are new, more virulent strains of things showing up that are affecting vaxed populations as much as unvaxed, so the vax is anon-issue.

3. Don't worry; you'll all be fine. The 2-month old is probably in more danger from all the kids coming in shedding viruses from their vaccines than from the ten month old shedding nothing.

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Old 07-23-2012, 12:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WDW View Post
I really don't want popcorn... LOL. I want to take the child I just am not sure what the right choice is. Please don't flame me.
Sorry.....I wasn't flaming you...I just know this tends to be a heated debate.

I have had children in care not vaccinated, partially vaccinated and vaccinated so I have no worries about what a parent does or doesn't do in that area.

My children are vaccinated but back when they were young, there wasn't the vast wealth of knowledge out there as there is now.

I think that there is no harm in taking the child. The vulnerable one would be the one not vaccinated.
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Old 07-23-2012, 12:21 PM
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Originally Posted by Blackcat31 View Post
The vulnerable one would be the one not vaccinated.
So I was right!
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Old 07-23-2012, 12:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blackcat31 View Post
Sorry.....I wasn't flaming you...I just know this tends to be a heated debate.

I have had children in care not vaccinated, partially vaccinated and vaccinated so I have no worries about what a parent does or doesn't do in that area.

My children are vaccinated but back when they were young, there wasn't the vast wealth of knowledge out there as there is now.

I think that there is no harm in taking the child. The vulnerable one would be the one not vaccinated.
Don't forget that when your children were young they received a fraction of the number of vaccines that children receive today. It's a whole 'nother ballgame these days.
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Old 07-23-2012, 12:28 PM
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Originally Posted by SilverSabre25 View Post
Don't forget that when your children were young they received a fraction of the number of vaccines that children receive today. It's a whole 'nother ballgame these days.
Yeah, I think they got
DTP...... in a series of 3 boosters
MMR......once at 15 months
Polio...... once, maybe twice by kindergarten entrance.

Diptheria, Tetanus, Pertussis, Measle Mumps and Rubella and Polio......and that was it. (sorry if they aren't spelled that way...it took me years to figure out what all the letters stood for....LOL!)

No Varicella, no Hib, or Hep or Roto-virus or anything like that. I am amazed at the number of vaccinations kids get now days.

Heck I remember getting the polio vaccination in elementary school in a sugar cube. I also got a small pox vaccination when I was born......I think they stopped giving that out shortly afterwards.
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Old 07-23-2012, 12:24 PM
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I have taken non-vaccinated children before. Utah has a place on it's shot record form to put it. The parents also have to have a waiver form from the health dept.
The parents understood that if an outbreak of something popped up in the area, their child would be excluded from care as long as the health dept warranted and they would still have to pay for their spot. They were fine with that.
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  #10  
Old 07-23-2012, 12:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SilverSabre25 View Post
1. It's not *THAT* likely that the ten month old will bring in something...unvaxed does NOT equal dirty and disease-carrying I do NOT think that at all!!
2. There are new, more virulent strains of things showing up that are affecting vaxed populations as much as unvaxed, so the vax is anon-issue.

3. Don't worry; you'll all be fine. The 2-month old is probably in more danger from all the kids coming in shedding viruses from their vaccines than from the ten month old shedding nothing. Yes.. this was one of my concerns.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Former Teacher View Post
My thoughts exactly!

WDW- My personal opinion is that it's not the child's fault for the parents beliefs. I could be wrong (it's been known to happen ) but I remember something like the thing that suffers is the child that is not vaccinated. Totally agree that it's not the childs fault..

So go ahead and take her
[quote=Blackcat31;246915]Sorry.....I wasn't flaming you...I just know this tends to be a heated debate. Nah, I didn't think YOU were, just didn't want anyone to, I'm really not trying to be ugly or start debate. Just something I had never been faced with before.

I have had children in care not vaccinated, partially vaccinated and vaccinated so I have no worries about what a parent does or doesn't do in that area.

My children are vaccinated but back when they were young, there wasn't the vast wealth of knowledge out there as there is now.

I think that there is no harm in taking the child. The vulnerable one would be the one not vaccinated.[/QUOTE]

Thanks all!
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  #11  
Old 07-23-2012, 12:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blackcat31 View Post

...off to get some popcorn
My thoughts exactly!

WDW- My personal opinion is that it's not the child's fault for the parents beliefs. I could be wrong (it's been known to happen ) but I remember something like the thing that suffers is the child that is not vaccinated.

So go ahead and take her
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  #12  
Old 07-23-2012, 07:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WDW View Post
I have my first ever prospective parents that have a child who is unvaccinated... and they do not plan to do this in the future either. I know the laws in my state, and I can watch her with a waiver. However, she is 10 months old, and in my care I also have a 2 months old infant. My main concern is the 10 month old bringing in something to the baby who is not old enough to have her shots.... also, I am concerned for my family home... and of course, the unvaccinated child becoming sick as well...

I know this is just a personal opinion thing, and that's what I'm asking for... FRIENDLY opinions.. what would you do? I really really like the family and the 10 month old a lot.
I highlighted the bold parts that I think are essential. I don't allow non vac in my home but have never had anyone question me about it.
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  #13  
Old 07-23-2012, 07:20 PM
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I only take fully vaxed children. I have no problem, personally, with a family opting out of vaccines and know many families that do choose that. However, it is in my contract that all children have up to date vaccines. One of the reasons is that I am on my third pregnancy while doing daycare and this is in effort to keep myself and my newborns safe, plus I do take one baby under 12 months at time with my daycare kids. I realize that a vaccination is not a "cure all" and does not guarantee that your child is forever exempt from serious illness....however, this is what I feel comfortable doing in a daycare setting as a preventative measure. I understand that my take on the issue is not what everyone else does, but I wanted to put this out there in support of the OP and other providers. It is important for you to do what you feel comfortable with, and that may be something outside of what the majority is doing.

I have never had anyone question this policy and I find that unvaxed children in daycare is pretty uncommon. A lot of unvaxed kids are from AP style families who arent generally pro-daycare anyway.
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  #14  
Old 07-23-2012, 10:08 PM
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I would definitely say that you need to inform all the other parents that there will be an unvaccinated child in your care. Also, I think this new child would have to be absent for an appropriate amount of time if she comes down with something.
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  #15  
Old 07-24-2012, 05:36 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lucy View Post
I would definitely say that you need to inform all the other parents that there will be an unvaccinated child in your care. Also, I think this new child would have to be absent for an appropriate amount of time if she comes down with something.
I agree with notifying the other parents. Personally, if I were the parent of the 2-month-old, it would make me think about moving my child to a different daycare if the unvaccinated child were accepted. Sure, it may not have any affect on the older children who have received their vaccinations, but as you said, the 2-month-old is not fully vaccinated yet. In addition to pertussis, there have been measles outbreaks in some states over the past couple of years.
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  #16  
Old 07-24-2012, 05:58 AM
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There are vaccine resistant strains of these diseases developing. Here are a few articles about the US whooping cough epidemic and an epidemic in Australia where they have started pulling the whooping cough vaccine because it doesn't work anymore.

Some info about the current whooping cough outbreak and vaccinations.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/...8320TM20120403

Witt had expected to see the illnesses center around unvaccinated kids, knowing they are more vulnerable to the disease.

"We started dissecting the data. What was very surprising was the majority of cases were in fully vaccinated children. That's what started catching our attention," said Witt.

To figure out just how well the vaccine was working, Witt and his colleagues collected information on every patient who had tested positive for pertussis between March and October, 2010.

Of the 132 patients under age 18, 81 percent were up to date on recommended whooping cough shots and eight percent had never been vaccinated. The other 11 percent had received at least one shot, but not the complete series.


http://online.wsj.com/article/APae1a...0e3abe635.html

Some parents in California and other states have rebelled against vaccinations and gotten their children exempted from rules that require them to get their shots to enroll in school. Washington state has one of the highest exemption rates in the nation. But the CDC said that does not appear to be a major factor in the outbreak, since most of the youngsters who got sick had been vaccinated.

http://www.news.com.au/breaking-news...-1226350174856

http://www.smh.com.au/national/healt...320-1vibp.html
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  #17  
Old 07-24-2012, 06:15 AM
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Originally Posted by JustAMom View Post
I agree with notifying the other parents. Personally, if I were the parent of the 2-month-old, it would make me think about moving my child to a different daycare if the unvaccinated child were accepted. Sure, it may not have any affect on the older children who have received their vaccinations, but as you said, the 2-month-old is not fully vaccinated yet. In addition to pertussis, there have been measles outbreaks in some states over the past couple of years.
The 2 month old can pick up a virus that is shed from a child who recently received their vaccinations just as easily as getting something from a non-vaccinated child. If I remember correctly, the ones getting the vaccinations are more likely to "spread" the illness/disease.

A 2 month old is vulerable regardless.

I also think that there are laws in each state about whether or not parents need to be informed or a non-vaccinated child in attendance.

Check your specific area's laws before announcing to other parents and causing unnecessary panic.

After all, how many of your children's schools send you notices that unvaccinated children are in attendance?
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  #18  
Old 07-24-2012, 03:22 AM
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This is a choice you have to make based on your comfort level, and not let your personal feelings of the family get in the way.

Both my kids are fully vaccinated and all my other dck's are vaccinated, so with herd immunity I would do it. However, me personally, with a 2-month-old, I would be more cautious. No, this child is not ridden with diseases and germs but it only takes one time, right?

I think of it like this: if you are not vaccinating your child, that is your choice that you want to take a chance at exposure to those illnesses. If you have a 2-month-old that you plan to fully vaccinate, you are choosing not to expose your child, but you just can't do it yet. I (personally) would not put my newborn in that position.

Along those same lines, if I had 1 child in my daycare that was not vaxxed, I likely would not take another, to increase the safety of the 1 non-vaxxed child in my care.
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Old 07-24-2012, 04:40 AM
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I am not allowed to take an unvaxed child unless it is for religious or medical reasons (and then I need a special form signed by a religious official or MD only). Just 'opting out' is not an 'option' here.
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Old 07-24-2012, 08:11 AM
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My nephew is not vaccinated. His parents were pro-vax like the majority of people, but then they began doing some research and what they found surprised them and they have made the decision not to vaccinate right now. They may when he is older, but right now babies his age are so vulnerable to what is PUT in the Vaccines now days that they decided it is best not to. The OP doesn't need to be concerned. The majority of outbreaks have been found to come from children who just received their vaccines rather than those who were not vaccinated. It's terrible what all is put into vaccines now. Including mercury... Some vaccines have caused babies to have seizures, some have actually killed the baby... and I have friends whose babies have disorders and the doctor for one of those children even admitted that it was most likely from the vaccines (he told which one, but I can't remember which). But all this is off topic from what the OP asked. Sorry... I think your concern is for the 2 month old, but I wouldn't worry about it too much (after what I've learned about vaccines). I believe their biggest risk of getting something comes from a child who is recently vaccinated, rather than from one who is not. You were also concerned for the unvaccinated child becoming sick with something. As long as your policies say parents have to pay even if the child is home sick, you shouldn't have to worry about it too much. besides that, I believe the child is most likely to get sick if he is vaccinated, according to the research my brother-in-law and sister have done. So I think all your bases are covered and it should be fine to take this new little one on. I wouldn't even think you would need to let the vaccinated children's parents know that one is not. If they are vaccinated, even if this non-vaxed one did get something, their children are "protected" against it.
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Old 07-24-2012, 08:57 AM
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Originally Posted by Preschool/daycare teacher View Post
It's terrible what all is put into vaccines now. Including mercury...
This is super outdated information, and it feels unnecessary paranoia.

Thimerosal *was* a preservative used in vaccine serums and yes, it did contain mercury - however - it was used since the 1930's and was certainly nothing new.

That said due to the hype of the autism paranoia it's no longer produced or used in any of the traditional childhood vaccinations.

Repeat - thimerosal is no longer used as a preservative in childhood vaccines.




Quote:
Originally Posted by Preschool/daycare teacher View Post
Some vaccines have caused babies to have seizures, some have actually killed the baby... and I have friends whose babies have disorders and the doctor for one of those children even admitted that it was most likely from the vaccines (he told which one, but I can't remember which).
There is risk in introducing especially live attenuated vaccines, it's plainly stated and parents have to sign off acknowledging those risks. That said, what do you think contracting the actual virus/disease itself will do if a child?

Mortality rates are infinitely higher in comparison to mere reactions from vaccine exposure.
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Old 07-24-2012, 09:07 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Willow View Post
This is super outdated information, and it feels unnecessary paranoia.

Thimerosal *was* a preservative used in vaccine serums and yes, it did contain mercury - however - it was used since the 1930's and was certainly nothing new.

That said due to the hype of the autism paranoia it's no longer produced or used in any of the traditional childhood vaccinations.

Repeat - thimerosal is no longer used as a preservative in childhood vaccines.






There is risk in introducing especially live attenuated vaccines, it's plainly stated and parents have to sign off acknowledging those risks. That said, what do you think contracting the actual virus/disease itself will do if a child?

Mortality rates are infinitely higher in comparison to mere reactions from vaccine exposure.
I need a source for your statement that thimerosal is no longer used. AFAIK It is still used in MMR.
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Old 07-24-2012, 09:32 AM
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Originally Posted by SilverSabre25 View Post
I need a source for your statement that thimerosal is no longer used. AFAIK It is still used in MMR.
Merck & Co produces two MMR vaccines (M-M-R-II and ProQuad that includes varicela) that are thimerosal free. That can be confirmed on the Tables of recommended vaccines here:

http://www.fda.gov/BiologicsBloodVac...fety/UCM096228

Thimerosal has been removed from or reduced to trace amounts in all vaccines routinely recommended for children 6 years of age and younger, with the exception of inactivated influenza vaccine (see Table 1). A preservative-free version of the inactivated influenza vaccine (contains trace amounts of thimerosal) is available in limited supply at this time for use in infants, children and pregnant women. Some vaccines such as Td, which is indicated for older children (≥ 7 years of age) and adults, are also now available in formulations that are free of thimerosal or contain only trace amounts. Vaccines with trace amounts of thimerosal contain 1 microgram or less of mercury per dose.



Yet another source, I have loads if you want more.


http://www.cdc.gov/h1n1flu/vaccinati...merosal_qa.htm

Since 2001, no new vaccine licensed by FDA for use in children has contained thimerosal as a preservative, and all vaccines routinely recommended by CDC for children under six years of age have been thimerosal-free, or contain only trace amounts, except for multi-dose formulations of influenza vaccine. This was done as a precautionary step and not because there was evidence confirming that thimerosal-containing vaccines were causing health problems. The most recent and rigorous scientific research does not support the hypothesis that thimerosal-containing vaccines are harmful.
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Old 07-24-2012, 09:10 AM
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Awesome post, Willow!
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Old 07-24-2012, 09:28 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Willow View Post
Mortality rates are infinitely higher in comparison to mere reactions from vaccine exposure.
Japan raised its minimum vaccination age to two years in 1975 the overall infant mortality rate improved to become the best in the world.

I found this info out some years back and thought it was very interesting.

They also have a very low SIDS rate compared to the US and other countries. I have zero clue as to the legitamacy of this info but thought I would throw it out there.....
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