What if you hear abuse or something illegal on the recording? If you live in a state where this is against the law you would be shooting yourself in the foot by illegally gaining this info and potentially facing charges yourself. There was a news story about this recently. The woman came to the police with recordings that incriminated someone and they ended up filing criminal charged against her.

Dot hasn't replied at all. I think our advice is falling on deaf ears.

Honestly I think it is Dot's poor parenting that has gotten her into this position. She has raised a child who lacks confidence and has little ability to adapt and is being raised by a fearful parent who expects the worst to happen while expecting someone else to prepare her child for school and the real world.

and BINGO was his name-o!

I'm happy to address some things that were said as a response. First, I'm not a helicopter parent, I do not rush her to the ER over minor scrapes or run in to assist her when she is trying new things. I also don't stand in the way of her Sunday school teacher disciplining her or re-punish her after the situation has passed. I have a son who is 19 and I learned from some mistakes I made the first time around so I'm more easy about letting her learn in her own ways.

I felt like I vetted this center, I went in with her and let her stay in class while I waited in the lobby and spoke with staff to give her an hour here and there to warm up to the idea. I made it clear to the staff that this was an early introduction to leaving her for short periods and I would call at lunch and nap time to see how her day was going, made it brief and got back off the phone. I stopped in unannounced once and only asked how it was going, I didn't make my appearance in the classroom or address the teacher just had an aid go see about her and tell me what they were doing (which was story time). After a few days I cut down to calling once a day usually around nap time once they were asleep. I read reviews and several times when I went to get her she didn't rush right over to me, she was playing so I took my time collecting stuff from her cubby and going over her chart of the day with the teacher. I was thrilled at how easy it went and even discussed increasing it to 3 days a week the following week. Then, on the 7th visit, I parked and could hear her crying loudly in the parking lot, when I keyed in my code and went in then the staff rushed back to her class, I went back and she ran to me right away. I asked the teacher what happened, did she fall or something and the afternoon shift teacher ignored me 3 times. She finally told me she didn't know, she was told by the day teacher that my daughter cried the whole day and then walked away to start some cleaning, I pressed her for more answers as the what she meant and is there a way I can talk with the day teacher but she had left at nap time during shift changes.

I consoled my daughter and asked at the desk but no one knew anything. I took her home and couldn't get anything really verbalized about what was wrong as she was somewhat delayed in speech. I called the center a bit later once she was calm and spoke with the director who said she'd look into it. I called the next day and the day teacher said she had a good day and doesn't know why she was crying or why the other teacher would say that she was told my child cried all day. Then I was told that wasn't the normal afternoon teacher, then was told that she was but doesn't remember what happened,

I did not take her back to the center and she suddenly had all sorts of separation anxiety which she hadn't had much of early on. It left me feeling too uncomfortable to take her back. I took the position of Sunday school teacher for that next quarter just so my daughter would go back into class and eventually was able to hand it off to another teacher for the following quarter. She eventually went back into Wednesday children's church without crying for us and I didn't hover or check up on them or question when she'd get into trouble.

Now, I don't intend to keep recordings and I would certainly hope someone isn't talking about death or miscarriage or their personal problems in front of my child or other children, there really is a time and place for those kinds of conversations and class time is not one of them. I'm not going to be using it to chastise her for doing something wrong or trying to "get some dirt" on staff members so I can go rush to the school board with an "ah-ha" accusation. But I will use it to see if my child is chattering away and listen for laughter or instruction. I will listen for crying and will wait to see how long that crying lasts. If, for example, I turn it on and hear her crying I will give a reasonable amount of time I know it takes her to bounce back but if it continues beyond 10 minutes, I'd drive over to "check in" on her in person.

I know you all think I'm completely wrong about my decision, that is your right to that opinion, but I do read the news, I do see videos of teachers putting their hands on children, gripping their faces, I do find video clips of autistic children who are either left for hours in neglect or are verbally and physically assaulted. I do see teachers appear on the news for molesting 18 of their young grade school students and it taking months to be discovered. So, I am very sorry that I have mistrust issues but they are not all unwarranted, I want to be able to check in on my child and until the day when all classrooms offer monitoring I'll go about different means to "check in". I won't be spending the entire school day in covert mode listening to 8 hours waiting for "something" to happen, I will, at times, when I wonder about her day turn on the device and have a listen for a few minutes to see how it's going. I expect to hear silence mostly from her, maybe children chattering, instruction, songs, snack or lunch time routines and I expect that eventually I will see that she's so happy with going that I'm made to feel more at ease and at that time I'll remove the device.

Again, you are welcome to disagree and even feel appalled by me, but that is not going to change my mind.

The caregiver who began this thread is exactly the kind of person who would make me question and mistrust and I'd pull my child from their daycare immediately. For all her talk about her child and parents' behaving in an "odd" way she is the one who behaved Odd in this thread and I doubt she will ever update or tell the truth about the matter. And she probably fed off of all her sympathy and fellow accusers and found a way to terminate that family, which, probably did them a favor since she felt their child was "odd" anyway.

If you feel enraged at the idea of cameras in the schools put yourself in the shoes of the parents of that young child who went to the bathroom on a pass and didn't return, he was found a while later hung by his belt lifeless in a bathroom stall. As a parent, wouldn't you want to know if he did it, did he go in alone? If someone else did it wouldn't you want them to be able to run back the tape and see who went in there right after him? Wouldn't you want those answers? That story was in the news just over a year ago, that was grade school and there are far too many unanswered questions. The molestation incident I talked about earlier was at a grade school somewhere else in this state, that teacher's privacy was so protected that he was able to molest over a dozen children before being found out. You can't put your child into a bubble at your home and protect them from the world their whole lives, you have to let go and allow them some normalcy. But you can do other things to try to make it safer for them.

You can read school reviews but you'll usually get lies on both ends either it gets described as a perfect school with high marks and there's never a single bad issue reported or you'll get so many "Jerry Springer moms" reporting all sorts of nonsense like "Timmy wasn't given extra time for his test" or "Those teachers have a vendetta against my child" or "My son was bullied and has never been a bully"....how can you get a real true sense of a place based on reviews or word of mouth. Just because they are good and kind to your child doesn't mean they will be to mine, just because you are angry at them because your kid gets bad grades and is problematic doesn't mean they are a bad teacher. So how else are you supposed to know if a place is the right for your child? And how are you supposed to get those answers from your child if they have speech and verbal delays? So, until she's able to articulate more coherently I'm going to have to take more drastic measures to ensure we have her in the right school or daycare.

I went back and reread the OP and several of her replies. I am not sure why you are so offended that she described the families behavior as odd. Does she not have that right? She went on to describe several, rather odd behaviors by the child and parents. She didn't say the child was bratty or the mom was a crazy or the child was a monster She seemed genuinely confused and upset by the behavior. You are absolutely right in that she should have termed, not because she (the provider) was odd, but because this family obviously made her uncomfortable enough to come and post to begin with.

Because you will be sound recording, you will have NO idea who is where. Maybe the staff will have your child keep the item at her desk while they go outside. Maybe they think they are alone in the room and have a parent conference or staff meeting. But frankly, how dare you think YOU decide when information gets shared. Obviously no professional would talk that way so the child can hear, but sometimes things need to be said when they need to be said. I know I've had to share updates with my assistant during class time. Obviously I make sure the children are engaged and not in ear shot. But if Tommy's father has a court order against him and can no longer pick up, that needs to be known ASAP. Or if Susie has a nasty diaper rash after a long weekend, and needs extra changes, that really can't wait.

I agree with the poster who suggested home schooling. It sounds as if you need to be "in charge" and this will give you that.

You need to quit your job and stay home with your child. You have trust issues that are clearly well above and beyond normal separation anxiety from your child. It is not normal to go to the worst case scenario at all times. Please consider seeking help.

I feel sorry for your child, Dot. You are crippling her. Kids pick up paranoia, whether you know not or not. You removed her from a daycare because she was crying? You are recording her incase she cries for more than 10 minutes and needs you? If your child is genuinely that fragile you need to home school. Other wise, you are setting her up for a big fall. I get the need to want to protect your kids. I have 3 of them, and there's nothing I wouldn't do to keep them safe. I have overprotective tendencies as well, which I why I quit my job to start a daycare and raise them. But record them at school? No way. Not in a million years.

Infringing on the rights of others just because you are afraid your child may have a little emotional adversity is rediculous. What are you teaching her, if mommy magically appears after 10 minutes of crying at school? You are robbing her of the opportunity to learn to trust others and be consoled by another trusted adult. I think you are the one with emotional issues, not your daughter.

I'd hate to see the psych bills in 15 years...

Dot,

Your assurance of your child's safety does not trump the law. It's not whether or not it is illegal. It IS illegal. You don't get to break the law for the sake of your assurance of her safety.

Your story of the center experience is a perfect example of a parent making assumptions to further their "my child is the center of the universe". Your kid behaved like MILLIONS of threeyear olds after the first few weeks of new daycare. The honeymoon was over and the kid realizes it's better for them to have one to one care with their parents than be one of many. Very normal. We have all seen it a zillion times. You put words and talked story about it but to us it's just another day in the life. If you read the archives of this board and other daycare boards you would read your identical story in the identical time frames many times.

Your justification that you wouldn't listen to it all the time or publish it is silly. You only have to do it once for a second for it to be wiretapping. How often you do it doesn't matter.

You are one of a million parents who want to put recording devices on their kids for times.when they aren't with the kid. I've been reading these stories since the mini cassette recorders came out. It's nothing new but it's still illegal. The recordings you see of kids in school are cameras the school has up or employees have shot. Can you give me an example of one where parents planted a camera on their kid?

One more thing. Your idea that the staff shouldn't discuss private stuff around your kid is ridiculous. I have always had a helper and they have been with me for four, five, seven years. We become close and we share our lives every day. We KNOW how to talk to each other around the kids without the kids having the ability to decipher what we are saying. We become adept at spelling out key words in sentences and renaming target people in the convo so any little ears could not know of whom we speak. Big ears would have it figured out in seconds. I have had THOUSANDS of conversations with my son, staff, and on the phone within ear shot of the kids that I would NEVER want to be heard by a daycare parent. Thousands upon thousands.

There are many people who have your concerns. They act by homeschooling not by committing a crime. Your child's safety is not more important than my kids right to privacy. You aren't special and your kid isn't either. If you are going to leave her in public then public trumps her. We have laws that demand it.

I don't have much to add other than what the other providers have said.

I just wanted to add that this topic obviously strikes a cord, probably on both sides. I read this thread a few days ago and just checked back in. I was amazed at the number of views it received!

I totally understand both sides though! I am a mother of 3 who would do anything to protect my kids. However I realize that if what I feel is necessary to protect my kids (a camera or recording device for example) or if I so thoroughly distrusted ALL schools, then I WOULDNT PUT MY CHILD IN ONE!!!

There are options. HOMESCHOOL OR FIND A SCHOOL THAT USES CAMERAS! Don't break the law doing it yourself. There are plenty of schools that have cameras and you have the right to send your child to one. Go with the law not against it.

Learn your rights and use them, not create your own. Imagine if we all did that!

You have the right to send your child to school and feel safe doing so. Do that by making the right decisions and choosing the right school. Not choosing a school based on location or cost and then creating your own rules

If I knew of a way to find out who you are, I would contact your school district and tell them of your plans. No joke. You sound like an intelligent person with good intentions, however that won't matter in a court of law. You will probably do time if/when you are discovered. Have you considered that? How's it going to affect your daughter's frailty when mommy is in jail for a few months for wiretapping? You have obviously thought out every reason for why it's acceptable for you to do this, and you say you don't care that it's illegal, but you haven't thought about the consequences of actually following through with it.

Wednesday, I understand that you are feeling strongly about this, but it is comments like this that make people reading not want to ever post anything in fear of someone hunting them down. Threats are inappropriate.

Dot is a perfect example of why each DCP needs to be picky not only with the children they provide to, but also the parents of the children. I make sure all my parents are playing with a full deck of cards before agreeing to care for their children.

Contemplating breaking intrusion of solitude privacy laws without concern for those you harm means this mom is definitely missing some cards in her deck and honestly, never learned the golden rule. So sad.

If she is doing something blatantly illegal, I would feel obligated to report her if I knew who she was. That's what I meant. It's not a threat. It's just a fact. See something, say something is the official motto of my local police department. So, if I knew who she was, I would say something. That's being a responsible citizen, not trying to intimidate/threaten her.
And considering i have no clue who she is, there's no way I can pose a threat to someone I don't know and have no way of finding out who she is.

I didn't feel that Wednesday was threatening anyone. Dot is posting on a PUBLIC forum.

When you post something on a public forum or on the internet you give up any right to privacy in a sense.
You may think you have a right to privacy and to a certain extent you do but not really kwim?

Once you write something and hit that post button, it is no longer your private property so to speak.

I also disagree that people reading will be discouraged or fearful as I have read ALL kinds of things on the internet and this board that amaze me daily.

Seems in this day and age, people thrive on the drama and attention the internet brings.....Facebook, Twitter, SnapChat etc etc.....

If Dot was worried about people finding out who she is, then she should have kept her thoughts and intentions to herself and not put them on a PUBLIC forum for 5,000+ registered members and millions of anonymous readers to view.

Thanks BC.

A forum I used to frequent had some serious super sleuth abilities and DID call the police on people, turn them into CPS, report them to social services for welfare fraud... the list goes on. I believe the admins are able to get an IP address from posts and can find out who this is IF they felt the need to. Unfortunately we see all sorts of dummies on this forum who say crazy things because they're "anonymous" when really they're not. What she's saying she WANTS to do vs what she HAS done is different. Sadly, I'm sure the school will pick up on this mom's odd behavior as well. I hope they find the recording device and bust her!


I can be an adult and admit that I had major trust issues after a horrific experience with my provider, I DID quit my job and stay home with my children. It was a huge sacrifice but I had to do it for my own sanity. Otherwise I probably would have resorted to things like this to comfort myself. But instead of being "that mom" I decided to open my own home daycare where moms could record me or drop in unannounced and the worst they'd find is 22 mins of Dragon Tales, a box of scattered Legos or dishes in the sink.

I will bear in mind what someone else said about a back pack left in the classroom, that is the only point I will concede and take into consideration. I will not be baited into throwing insults or name calling in return because those of you who have said things to or about me are within your legal rights to do so. I will say that the times are changing and schools and day cares are going to need to get more used to less privacy and more monitoring. I'm not going to prevent my child from having a public or chartered education but I'm also going to be proactive in making sure she is at a comfortable school environment.

I do not need to quit my job as my job allows me to work in my home as a seamstress and sell my items online and while so many would really love to classify me as mentally disturbed or lacking, the world is a changing place and we must adapt with it until technology catches up. Unfortunately, there are not many schools that offer in class monitoring yet although I think that's a good idea.

This post came up in a google search and while I understand the tendency for day care providers to rally round one another to take their side, in real life and outside your circle I doubt many of you would have this provider as your day care for your child. Her post struck a cord in me and reinforces my concerns about the front that people put on in front of you than when you are gone and her wording and continued insinuations toward the parents and child sent a red flag up for me. If some people here were honest they would say it went off and rang false to them too but I understand that in a forum community no one is going to go against the grain.

I won't continue to post or comment on other threads, I haven't explored any other part of this forum, I just ran across this out of nowhere and I felt like someone needed to say something about how parents feel these days. So no need to worry about me, I'm just passing through, but I do hope that some people think about it and consider the tough choices that parents have to make these days when choosing schools and day cares and who to trust with their children.

Dot, I am curious as to how you would feel as a parent if someone told you they possessed video footage of YOUR daughter? Video footage they obtained without your permission.

What if this person used the images and footage of your dd for their own personal reasons?

Whether or not you agree with their personal choices, how would YOU feel?

I am not being facetious but am genuinely asking for your thoughts/feelings from the "other" side of this.

I'm just passing through, but I do hope that some people think about it and consider the tough choices that parents have to make these days when choosing schools and day cares and who to trust with their children.

Most of are parents and know how a parent feels about the safety and well being of their child . That is why we do what we do .
We too have the same struggles in finding a great school in which to send our children . Or in finding that great sitter of we want a night out without the kids , whether we have enough trust to let our child sleep over their friends house .

I don't understand why you would think as child care providers we don't understand the tough choices any parent has to make . We probably see it more than the average person.

plus, most of us did what we felt we needed to do and stayed home and cared for our own children. A lot of times because we didn't trust anyone else.

I think you are lying to yourself when you deny being a helicopter parent. Here is the definition: A helicopter parent (also called a cosseting parent or simply a cosseter) is a parent who pays extremely close attention to a child's or children's experiences and problems, particularly at educational institutions.

There are long term consequences to this type of parenting. It seems as if your daughter may already be showing signs of them.

http://ezinearticles.com/?Stop-Naggi...ing&id=5617879

http://www.familynavigation.com/the-...ter-parenting/

http://www.positive-parenting-ally.c...r-parents.html

You got that right!

Agreed, BC, I'm curious if the speech delay is coming from the helicopter parenting.

My husband was a helicopter for the first two years of our son's life and his speech was slow to develop. His pediatrician asked if we were anticipating his needs, doing everything for him, and I said yes. And the pediatrician said to me, "then why does he NEED to speak? He doesn't".

It was a light bulb moment and I cracked down on my husband after that. We made my son verbalize his needs and stopped responding to the pointing and grunting. His speech exploded within about 3 months.

There are plenty of centers that offer video monitoring over the Web. Why not just find one? Sheesh.

Because then mom wouldn't be getting the attention she is getting (and loving) from this situation.

Sometimes, it really isn't about the child at all and I think that's what is really going on here.

Dot you keep justifying your views with "times are a changin". If you truly believe this then why don't you put your efforts into getting the laws changed to go with the times?

If you believe the blunt of society agrees than getting the laws changed will be quite easy to accomplish.

We would have to accept that you can plant, transmit, and publish all audio and video you can capture for the sake of your kid if the laws said you have the right.

Do you know that I have searched for a long time and I can't find a center daycare that transmits audio over the internet. There are many centers that transmit video and lots that record audio and video but I have not found one that transmits audio.

Now technology is changing quickly and possibly someone is doing it now but I don't know about them. I watched two centers video feeds of 400 kids for a year and let me tell you that it is extremely difficult to tell what is going on in a room with video only. Even the lowest level staff assistant figures out how to beat the cameras by week two. You would not be able to tell the goings on.with plain video and no sound. You have to have a very strong background in.child care to be able to decipher the small amount of info that comes in with just video.

Your want of sound is spot on. Sound is way way more telling than a fixed camera video. Sound is protected for a reason.

I hope you pull it off. I hope you get caught. I hope you are prosecuted and it goes national. Then you will have the national forum to protest that YOU should be able to do whatever YOU want to protect YOUR child. Then you will see how other parents feel about what you did with THEIR child's privacy. Then you will get it. It's only going to take ONE parent whose kid had a bad day to see the stomping and fist pounding that you had NO right tapeing their little POOKIE when he was in a bad spot.

You also remember that if you find anything that is off the grid in your kids care you only get ONE shot to protest before the adults figure out how you got the info. You will not be able to turf over to your kid as the information giver. The adults won't buy it and they will figure out what you have done. So make sure you are ready to put up with the little things you don't like before you show your hand on the biggie you can't walk away from. You will have to pull your kid because once they realize you have bugged the room you won't be welcome there or any other center thereafter. Be careful what you wish for for you shall surely get it.

The child couldn't be the info giver because she has speech delays because mom is a helicopter!

Hit. The. Nail. On. The. Head.

I already gave my advice to Dot, but I am legitimately curious about the whole legal aspect of this. Many of you seem adamant that what Dot plans to do is illegal, but I am not so sure. I think the legalities of video/audio recording people vary greatly from state to state.

Also, while I do not think that she should do what she plans, I admit that there have been times when I would have really liked to have taped my kids at school, etc. Anyone else out there feel that way?

It's very interesting to see how Wednesday can jump to the conclusion that my child's speech delay must be due to me being a helicopter parent. Thanks for reinforcing the fact that many people who work in day care should not do so because they are the type of people to jump to conclusions and type cast a parent or child without all the facts. It reveals much about you to your friends on this board.

My daughter's speech delay is directly related to her hearing loss and the fact that she relies on a hearing aid. Also, because we paid such close attention to our child we discovered her hearing loss earlier than most parents, according to her pediatrician, which is why we were able to begin working with her early. So, thanks for assuming the worst about me and stating your opinion twice.

I had actually considered looking into a day care with the monitoring system but someone here admitted that even low level employee know how to "beat the monitor early on" that's an awesome statement, thanks for that.

A very special thank you also for threatening to track down my IP address, that's something that should make you feel very comfortable and says something about you as well, so thank you for outing yourself to your friends as a stalker.

Finally, to the person who asked how I'd feel if my daughter was recorded, google glass is out and no one is going to be able to keep from being recorded, I don't love that but it is the changing times I was talking about. My daughter is video taped at dance recitals and gymnastics class so I'm not going to be able to prevent people from recording her. If someone from her class recorded their child and my child trying to check up on her at school and I found out, I'd want a copy so that I could also check in. Getting enraged because someone records your child is pointless since people can find opportunities to do that even at the park, that's when it's important to be an attentive parent and watch your child.

This is my last correspondence on this forum but feel free to talk among yourselves about my parenting, I won't see it so it won't affect me one way or another.

Really? Do you feel like your privacy is being invaded because someone might think that you're doing something wrong or illegal? Oh, the irony...

no, not at all, I just found it ironic that people were appalled over me invading the privacy of others but were quick to suggest tracking me down. I'm not threatened by it, I just found it telling. So I upset someone and they suggested tracking me down and discovering who I am but yet they'd never agree with doing something questionable to get information. That was the point and they made it for me, everyone has a line they will and won't cross, that's what I'm saying.

Last response.

Discovering your location via IP address after you posted on a public forum....legal.
Putting a secret camera on your child to record at school/daycare....illegal.

BIG DIFFERENCE.

Why are you trying so hard to convince any of us that you are justified in what you are planning on doing?

Why do you care what we think?

You aren't going to be a client of any of ours and if you were, I am pretty sure most providers would "figure out" your intentions rather swiftly because despite your opinion of child care providers, we ARE capable, educated and logical human beings.

You aren't the first parent to think YOUR rights supercede others and you won't be the last but I guarantee you that ultimately it will be your DD that pays the price.

I wouldn't care one bit if a parent wanted to video tape my day and what goes on here. I have NOTHING to hide but never in a million years would I take on or keep a client that wouldn't simply work with me in an HONEST manner and approach me mother to mother, caregiver to caregiver and talk/discuss with me any concerns or issues they may have.

ALL mothers are paranoid at some point, ALL mothers are fraught with fear and worry. Anxiety can paralyze even the most experienced parent in some cases but the manner in which you are choosing to approach these issues/concerns says FAR MORE TELLING ABOUT YOU than anything else.

So while you are tossing out warnings or reminders to posters about the stuff they are "giving away" about themselves, don't forget that it goes both ways.

What you are saying, what you believe and how you deal with these things say ALOT about you.

Also NO ONE said they were tracking down your IP address (it appears automatically on ANYTHING you post to the internet when you join a forum/chat room/discussion area etc) so no one needs to track anything down so you can stop feeling paranoid or stalked. No one here cares as much about you as you do.

Like I said in an earlier post....seems to me that YOU are enjoying the drama this brings to you. It really isn't about your daughter at all.

The irony abounds here. Dot, you've gone off the deep end. I didn't "suggest" or "threaten" to track you down using your ip, I don't have that access. If you read my post correctly, I said if I knew how to, I would do so. But I do not know how to. So who's making assumptions now?

And how am i supposed to know your daughter had a hearing issue if you didn't mention it? You only said she had speech delays. So your "assuming" we could read your mind and know about the hearing loss?

It doesn't matter if you continue to post here because the conversation has and will go on without your input. This board is for everyone and you didn't start the thread anyway so, newsflash, the world's doesn't revolve around you and neither does this thread.

Good luck with your endeavor. I hope it fails miserably and we will all get to say i told you so.

Sorry, I just wanted to quote all of Dot's posts so far because her profile shows that she's modifying a post.

"it reveals much about you to your friends on this board"? Trying to rally, are we? It's not going to work. As you can see from their responses, my friends on this board are actually reading the posts instead of twisting the words in the posts.

Devious little thing, isn't she. I thought she was done posting?

She's only said she'd stop posting a couple of times, so my bet is she isn't done yet

I am the original poster of this thread. I'll still remain anonymous, just because I still provide care for this little girl. She is still very different, and many other adults who have come into contact with her also describe her as odd. In fact, I have asked several questions about her on this forum throughout the years, trying to figure out why. Turns out, she's just a little odd, and that's the way she is, and it's completely fine. Some people are different, and the behavior of her and her family were a bit abnormal, but they are "normally abnormal," if that makes sense.

In hindsight, the doll does not contain a recording device. Mom still grills this child every single day. Which is fine- I have nothing to hide, obviously, since we still have a great working relationship. I also care for the girls older sibling in the summers. We have a lot of fun, and a good relationship. But had she recorded me, my family, or the other families and children in MY home, without my permission, I would have termed and pressed charges. If the mom ever wanted to come by and verify in person, no problem.

Not sure why the original post struck a cord with Dot. Maybe because she had such a hard time accepting the fact that what she is doing great is wrong, and there are people out there that will not allow their rights to be violated.

Thanks for posting! I had hoped you would weigh in with an update!

Still modifying! Is she writing a novel?

So I'm wondering, thanks to this thread, has anyone ever discovered a recording device in a child's belongings? What did you do?? How did the parents respond when confronted? Did you term immediately or press charges?

I just can't imagine the level of distrust going on in the parent's head when they decide to do this kind of thing. If they're THAT paranoid, why are they still bringing their children to a person they don't trust?

What about the "surprise visits" where you just know they showed up at this odd time to check up on you or was hoping to catch you doing something shady? I have very comfortable relationships with my families and we treat each other with total respect and trust, but I've been reading some not-so-nice things about parents with trust issues and how they can damage the reputation of a provider, even when it's not warranted. And we all know that reputation is everything in this business.

This is just getting funnier and funnier!! Yeah it's US crazy daycare people who provide care for kids in our HOMES who may not want their personal life being recorded... Yeah ok... We're the crazy ones...

The thought of someone secretly recording me in my own home is creepy beyond belief.

I work with my husband. We have a great marriage. On more than one occasion, when the kids are napping and our own (grown)kids are in another room etc.....my husband will "catch me" by the front door (where the kids cubbies are) for a quick smooch and yes...I'm going to say it.....a quick grope...and some suggestive comments. It keeps our marriage hot

A PERFECTLY OK thing for a married couple to do out of sight and sound from the rest of the world.

However...daycare cubbies are right there. A recording device in one of them would have picked up our "afternoon delight" clearly. That kind of intrusion into my private life would be unforgivable.

Dot keeps on about "changing times". Maybe. But childcare is a partnership between parents and providers and always has been. It's not a good partnership if one of the parties doesn't trust the other and feel comfortable enough to actually TALK about any issues.

I have had many times over the years been suspicious of things that may or may not being happening in a child's home. I talk to the parents about my concerns and talk to the child too. NEVER, EVER would I even think about sending the child home with a recording device.

Dot needs to understand that what's good for the goose, is good for the gander as they say. Is she OK with her child's teacher/provider sending the child home with a listening device so she can listen in to what goes on in their home? To maybe hear her and her significant other having a fight, or a sexy evening? To hear her talk to a friend about something very personal? To overhear her phone calls to her bank? To hear her order something over the phone using her credit card?

I bet not.

Times may be changing but wiretapping laws aren't.

The only thing that is different is the devices to surreptitiously tape is the size of the recording device, the method the sound can be transmitted, and the cost.

Wanting to wiretap providers has been going on since mini cassette recorders. That was twenty years ago. Parents couldn't pull it off because of the size.

Now the recording devices are small, easily concealed in common items, and don't require the recording to be done on the transmitter device.

There's been a big change in availability to the average parent because it's cheap now. That's what's changed. The laws don't change because they are more easily and cheaply broken. They change because society demands and works towards change. It's going to be a tough sale because in the end, people don't want their kids recorded and have other adults own and decide what to do with their kids images and.sound.

We just enrolled my 13 yo ds in a little school in a little town in Iowa and we both had to sign an agreement that he would not use a recording device in school. Even rural schools are on to it because the cell phone technology is so cheap now.

Dot,

If times are changing, that's great. But they haven't changed. Our laws are clear, you cannot secretly monitor a childcare classroom or home daycare without consent or a warrant. As others noted, plenty of childcare places offer monitoring - so they are on top of this apparent "change" and you should go there. But instead of doing such, you continue to show complete social and moral irresponsibility and believe it is fine to hurt others by invading privacy if it suits your own agenda.

Lots of people in history thought times were changing and broke the law. Some of them were ahead of their time, others committed genocide. None of them could independently decide whether they did the right thing without bias. Our society and governing bodies make that decision - thus our laws that you are required to follow or pay the consequences. Showing such disconcern for the consequences of your actions - both your legal consequences as well as the intrusion of privacy upon other parents and children shows not only a selfish mentality but also numerous indications of sociopathy. 'A person with a psychopathic personality whose behavior is antisocial, often criminal, and who lacks a sense of moral responsibility or social conscience.'

'A person with a psychopathic personality whose behavior is antisocial, often criminal, and who lacks a sense of moral responsibility or social conscience.'

EXACTLY.

I don't think it is sociopathic. I think it's a combination of society constantly encouraging new parents to think that their child is special. Their mothering is special. Their "mama bear" is fierce and if you are a good mama bear you can and SHOULD do WHATEVER it takes to protect your pookie bear. And.... that they are paying for their pook to be in child care and EVERYTHING that could possibly affect Pookie is their domain to know and decide. Because their precious pookie snowflake is in the building then anything and everything that goes on they have a right to know. They will decide whether anything they find out could be remotely about pookie or affect the Pook.

Seems pretty simple to me. If you are unable to trust anyone else with the care of your child, then stay home with them. I would never want a parent to leave their child with me if they did not trust me. I would also never leave my child with someone I did not trust.

No drama, law breaking, or invading someone else's right needed.

True that nannyde, but this style of modern parenting sounds narcissistic and/or sociopathic to me! To believe your special snowflake is far superior to others' snowflakes, and it is your right to infringe on the privacy of others and their snowflakes, to ensure your own snowflake's happiness and that the teacher recognizes said snowflake's high degree of specialness, is narcissistic/sociopathic. I'm not even sure what I just wrote there. Lol.

But their child IS special. Their mothering is special and unique. They should have a "mama bear" instinct to protect their child. Paying for child care should mean that they find a place that best fits their child and they SHOULD know everything about what happens to their child there. No, it does not mean they can infringe on the rights and privacy of others. However, you will never convince any mom that their child is not special, unique, and precious. I have already admitted that I can understand where "Dot" is coming from. Would I do what she plans to do - no, but I understand her concerns and fears. I read on here ALL THE TIME about providers admitting that they would NEVER leave their child in a day care. Well, why is it ok for us to feel that way but not others?

I am NOT defending Dot's plans. I am simply saying that she is human.

I have so far stayed out of this, although I've been reading along.

I agree completely.

If it were my daycare parent, I would be really pissed. But, I totally understand where Dot is coming from, too. It would not, however, be okay. As a family provider, I would be even MORE offended because of what Meeko suggested. Now, it'd be a double whammy. Infringing on the children, parents, and now also MY family in our home. I don't think Dot was even considering family childcare, though, so mute point.

Of course we all think our kid is special but they are special to US. They aren't special enough to steal a loaf of bread from someone else's kids because they need food. They aren't special enough to break into someone's house because they are homeless and need a roof and warm bed. They aren't special enough to get into someone's car and take off because they need a ride to the Doctor.

When your kid needs protection you don't steal to protect them. Wiretapping the other kids and workers is stealing their privacy. Doing as you wish whenever you want, however you want for the sake of YOUR special aint special.

The laws haven't changed because the issues that brought the laws into our country are identical to this thread. They are designed to protect whether the technology is a microphone and tape recorder or a button hole webcam. Capturing sound without consent where many other people expect privacy is the same regardless of who it is for.

If the parent felt it was justified because of her past experience in daycare then go to a judge and get permission. See if you can find a judge that will endure your sad tale of how traumatized your pook was in another daycare. Tell that judge how your special snowflake wouldn't be left in CHURCH for three months because of some obvious daycare trauma. See if the one who CAN give permission thinks it warrants bugging ANOTHER daycare of unsuspecting staff, parents, and kids.

Do the right thing. If your reason is so valid then put up and go to a judge. You can be sure they will agree because you are that child's mommy that you.SHOULD do WHATEVER it takes to protect them.

She is human in her desire to protect her child. It is not an inborn, human trait to violate every other person's basic rights to privacy so that she can satisfy her own curiosity. That's just narcissistic selfishness. It's all about me and what I want and to hell with everything and everyone else, including the law. That's how Dot sees it, anyway.

We would all like to be a fly on the wall in our children's classrooms at some point or another. But we're not neurotic enough to bug our kids to accomplish that.

She seems to have no concept of, or respect for, boundaries.

I would LOVE to hear and see the things my child goes through every day. I'm sure some of it is pretty tough for him. I know that one child was picking on him and you bet it would have been nice to hear what was being said. His teacher this year was also a little uptight and seemed to discipline a little harsher than I thought was necessary, but do you think I ever thought for a second that I should sent a recording device with him to school? no!

Kids desperately need to learn how to handle life. I have to hold myself back on a daily basis from taking care of all of the problems he encounters.

If I were SO worried that he would be harmed or abused in any way... he wouldn't be there. It would be irresponsible for me to put my child in a place that I felt he could ever be purposefully harmed. I would be a terrible parent for doing that.

As far as making sure your child is adjusting and not crying... you have to trust their caregivers as well as THEM. If the trust isn't there and you feel they won't communicate real issues to you, then it's the wrong place for your child from the very beginning. If you can't hold yourself back and trust your child to figure out how to adjust (even if it takes some time!) then you're both better off in a different situation. Becoming a stay at home parent, hiring a nanny, or just finding a child care setting that you truly trust are all better options.

For someone who is advocating "justice" on their own behalf, you'd think they'd be more proactive to learn the law, instead of taking the time it takes to post these lengthy posts.....on a child care forum of all places.....nothing like rattling the bees nest!

I would LOVE to hook a video camera to my son and tape him all day long at school! I'm not interested in what the others are doing to him. I want to see what he is doing. How much lip he is giving? How much screen he is using? How much running he is doing in gym or better yet the hallway?

Is he respectful? Does he talk kids out of food they don't like at lunch? Does he study during study hall? Does he listen or interrupt?

I would love to know what happens when he is under their roof. It would help me SO much in parenting him.

It would be in his best interest for me to have the audio and video truth.

But alas... his best interest isn't served when I use his best interest as an excuse to do something that is solely in his best interest. I don't get to serve him while robbing the others. He's in a GROUP and the GROUP of adults and children's best interest IS his best interest. If at any time that is not true than I am obligated to take him out of the group.

I would not send my child back to daycare, either. He had a WONDERFUL provider, and he and I both adored her. I wouldn't send him because of ME. I didn't want to miss these years with him. I couldn't live with someone else sharing all of this special time with him while I was at a job that didn't give me a fraction of the satisfaction that he did. I stay home because I think he DESERVES to have a parent home with him, and because I WANT to be home with him. We have some great daycares in my area. I would NEVER leave my kid with someone that I trusted so little that I had to secretly record them. If I felt that ALL providers needed to be spied on, I would think others correct in assuming that I needed psychiatric help.

Yes.... I didn't send my child to an in-home daycare because he was hard to manage.

I didn't want to inflict that on someone else.

I didn't use an in-home child care because I didn't trust them. It had nothing to do with that.

So yes, lots of us would not use child care but not because we don't like or trust them. I bet the majority of providers don't/didn't use one for reasons similar to mine and for the reasons you said (missing that time w/your kid etc...)

Maybe Dot could open her very own home daycare so she wouldn't need to record her child! Unless dd got more than 15 feet away. Then, of course, a recording device would be warranted. I'm sure the parents won't mind a bit, knowing that their provider is recording their children for her own personal reasons.... That doesn't sound creepy at all!

I'm sorry, my sarcasm button is pressed every time I open this thread.

I missed a lot while I was gone! It was a fun nap time read :-)

I think she needs to do the right thing and take her case to a judge. If she can convince a judge to grant her permission to bug her next child care then she is golden. It's easy to get a bunch of mommies on the internet to bless you but they don't have the wisdom and knowledge of the law a judge has. If she truly has a compelling reason she will get permission and won't have to break the law.

Ok, as a mother I get wanting to protect your child at any cost. There is nothing that I would not do to keep my DD safe. That being said, if I had any doubts about the standard of care that my child was receiving at daycare, I promise you that instead of devising a way to secretly record my DD's class, I would pull her out of the setting.

However, as a daycare provider, I wouldn't tolerate Dot's actions if she chose to go through with her plan. Dot, you would immediately be searching for new child care. Providers are responsible for ALL of the children in their care and the other parents trust us to care for and protect their children. Recording other parent's children is a violation regardless of your intent. If you try to do it, Dot, be prepared to get caught. You might get away with it for a little while but you will get caught. Be prepared to defend your actions with the authorities because most likely they will be involved. Be prepared to explain yourself to all of the parents of the children that you secretly recorded. I have to imagine that there will be upset parents. I would be furious if I was a parent of a child that you recorded!

Dot, whether you see it or not, you are crippling your child with your fear. It may not be apparent to you right now but it'll become very clear to you as your child gets older. Fear is easier to instill but much harder to remove.

^^^ What she said!!

Have you sought help? Your fear is far too intense to be chalked up to normal parent concerns. I promise you that I'm not being a jerk right now. I just really feel that there is something going on beneath the surface with you and you either can't or won't acknowledge that you might need help. Please, do some research on Paranoid Personality Disorder. Dot, no disrespect intended. I would just like for you to be willing to acknowledge that you might need help and that getting help (if it's needed) can only make you a better mother.

I don't think Dot has a disorder. I think she wants to spy on her kids care providers without them knowing it. I think she wants that advantage. She's justifying it with her own.special "my child" sauce but really she's not any different than anyone else who wants an unfair advantage for a "good cause".

Dot:
How would you feel if your provider thought that your daughter was surely being abused by you because of all her crying and they secretly stashed a recording device in her stuff to record your personal life in your home to "catch" you abusing her?

Everything you said or did is being heard
You paying bills over the phone with your credit card
You talking to you best friend about your period
You making very personal Dr appt. and when your little cupcake is sleeping, all the things you watch on TV or say to your husband/Boyfriend all recorded.

Oh, but it's for the better good because someone thinks that Sally might be getting hurt at home.

Is this legal or illegal to you?
right or wrong?
I agree with most, just homeschool

As a parent, if I found out my child was being recorded without my permission by another parent, I'd immediately be retaining an attorney and going as far as I could legally, and then turn around in civil court and sue. Every daycare and school that my children have attended have had to ask permission to take pictures and film video. There is a reason for that. It's to protect children from predators, Dot.

... never to use an in-home provider. Seriously.

So Dot's paranoia justifies this kangaroo court of shame, but OP's paranoia illicit calls for destruction of property? "Dunk it in the toilet, tear it open, put it in the freezer!" Multiple people telling Dot her paranoia is hurting her child, but no thought to the multiple children affected by a providers completely baseless paranoia?

OMG, a child has a toy they like carrying around? They cry when it's taken away? That's really odd behavior! Must be a camera! One the parents have trained them to guard with their life like some child soldier.

The call to "record [her] resignation" into what was actually just a toy is hilarious. Imagine if she had, only for the parents to still bring their child the next day. But sure, it's the parents that are weird.

Also, no apology for assuming a child's disability must be due to "bad parenting." Seriously, no one felt even a little bad for that?

If this is the general quality of in-home providers it probably is best to just go the traditional daycare route.

If you're waiting for a response, this thread is super old. FYI.

As a parent of a child under 1 year of age, whom I just pulled from daycare, I am quite concerned to see the kind of discussions on this forum. In fact, in re-affirms that I made the right decision about pulling out my child out of daycare.
Regarding this comment: "whether you see it or not, you are crippling your child with your fear." Infants and toddlers are prime targets for abuse. They are small, vulnerable, they cannot talk, and they are often abused or at least neglected for months before parents realize what is happening. The "fear" as you say, is VERY justified because abuse and neglect happens every day to tens of thousands of children. Most importantly, there is a serious lack of transparency from daycare providers. Children can get injured, babies can get roughed up by older kids, and parents won't be told unless there is bruising. But this is traumatic for young children. Many adult and teen mental issues stem from trauma in infancy. IT IS PARENTS' RESPONSIBILITY TO PROTECT THEIR CHILDREN. IS THAT CLEAR????
Daycare providers do not have any long-term vested interest in the children. If they act in a way that is traumatizing for a young child, or just don't bother to intervene when a baby or toddler is being roughed up by an older child, or just decide on their own that the baby should be left to cry to sleep, they will not be the ones who will see the child evolve into a teenager who will have tons of issues because they were not treated with love and were not nurtured 5 days per week 8 hours per day at the stupid daycare. Daycare providers only care about what's convenient for THEM, and it is quite clear in this thread. There is no concern at all about the children's well being and long-term impact of the caregivers' actions. NOBODY has the level of vested interest as the parents.
If we are serious about protecting our children, then everything a child can hear should also be heard by parents if they choose to. There should not be any confidential discussion by other parents about divorce, illness or anything like that in front of other children. Those discussions should take place in a private room, and every daycare as a private room. Those conversations are not appropriate for young children and daycare providers should refrain from having them in front of children. And if they - and other parents - are immature enough to have them in front of children anyway, then they deserve to be heard by other parents. And besides, children 2 to 5 can repeat what adults say and they have no concept of confidentiality. So whoever put that confidential discussion excuse on here, you are not very mature nor very smart.
Parents have a right already to be at the daycare while their child is there, so they can already see other children get disciplined, parents can walk in when their child is being disciplined. It should not be kept a secret from parents.
Caregivers who have a problem being recorded when they are caring for children are the ones who are incompetent and have something to hide. They should not be allowed to care for children if they don't want to be recorded when they are in the presence of children.

Wow. All I can say is that if a parent doesn't trust me, their child shouldn't be in my home. All of my parents understand I would never allow a recording device. Those same parents don't want me to allow their children to be recorded by others. I don't hide anything from my parents, it would be impossible to all my kiddos can speak clearly and tell parents exactly what is going on at daycare. I cater to nurses, and they are mandated reporters also, meaning if one child came home and told them I was mistreating another child, they would be required to report what their child said. When you work with children, it isn't easy to "hide" anything. Kids have no filters and will tell all!

I do have a long term interest in my kiddos. For more reason than one. Happy families even when they age out send me more families. Above and beyond that my daycare kiddos are part of my family. I tell them I love them daily! I give hugs and affection when they seek it.

Your broad generalizations are an insult to all of us providers who truly love and care for the children in our care. Parents do not have a right to sit in my daycare and watch other children! They have a right to come in, drop off or pick up their child, quickly discuss any issues and be on their way. They also have no right to take pictures of children and do who knows what with them. For all I know they are posting them in dirty websites! I have to protect the children from that. Farther more, many devices parents would try to send in to record also record voices which is ILLEGAL in many states. I cannot allow illegal activity to happen in my home. To much liability and yes, I worry about liability. This is my life and livelihood and I won't let anyone wreck it.

If you look at statistics, abuse mostly happens at home by the child's OWN parents, not by daycare providers. Get your facts straight. There is a reason daycare providers are mandated reporters, like doctors, teachers, and other professionals that work with children. Yes, it is true that some unfortunate things have happened and there are bad providers out there, but to make a general statement like that is irresponsible and accusatory to a profession that a lot of people have worked and do work so hard at everyday single day with the MAIN GOAL being to provide a safe, fun, clean, and happy place to spend the day away from their parents.

I'm insulted by your statement to say the very least. That is all.

The best thing for a child is to be with his/her parents. If this is the choice you made, awesome. You don't need to justify your choice by looking for things you don't agree with in the daycare environment.

I don't allow recording in my home. It's my home. There are other children here. I've been known to toot a time or two. Okay, daily. I'm a gassy person. My singing voice is horrendous - viral video worthy, yet I sing every song with the kids. Would you like to be taped at your job 24/7?

It's the parents' responsibility to find a reputable daycare. This usually means paying more money. The bad daycares & the ones that are shut down, are usually not the cream of the crop.

I have thought of putting in a recording device here for ME, in case a crazy parent tries to accuse me of something. That way, I'm covered. But a parent recording me? Buh-bye.

This thread is exhausting.

I agree!

It would probably just die down if so many didn't feed into it.

Well let's see..

The daycare you just pulled your kid out of was picked by YOU. Where did you go wrong? How did you fail your child? What have you done to make sure you don't do the same thing again?

You DO realize that you are the biggest statistical risk to your child for EVERY SINGLE potential harm or death. Parents and parents boyfriends and girlfriends kill more... inflict more life altering injuries.. have more cases of neglect.... more accidental injuries and death...and on and on.

If you are going to worry... worry about YOU and your child's other parent and an boy or girl friends. Child care providers... real legal child care providers are at the bottom of the risk potential. You are at the top.

As far as having a right to hear and see what goes on in a providers home and anything your child hears and sees... um. No you don't. You also don't have the right to see the provider care for other people's children. In my State we simply have to give you immediate access to your child upon arrival to retrieve your child. We can accomplish that by answering the door with your child in hand. We don't have to give you access to the other kids.

A lot goes on in front of your baby that a provider would never want a parent to overhear or see. A baby can't understand a phone conversation from another parent to discuss their child's bowel issues or who is going to start picking up because the parents separated.

We talk to each other about many things that are none of your business and your baby... regardless of your possible belief that he can understand or feel something...are perfectly legit and done without a scintilla of understanding from your kid.

If your kid is older we develop ways to converse where we can have full conversations without your kid understanding a half sentence of it.
You would... but your kid couldn't.

My staff and I talk in sentences and speed spell the key words. We have code names for each kid and parent and use speed spell with code names when there is a child present who shouldn't be privy to the convo.

It takes me a couple of weeks to teach the new staff how to do it and within a month they are lightning fast. We can have full discussions about the other kids, parents, our kids, our troubles etc that blow right on by the oldest smartest kid in the house.

You would be able to decode....so we couldn't have your listening ears as a known or unknown guest.

It's your misunderstanding of risk to children that puts my business at risk. That affects my kid and my livelihood.

We trump you. Believe me... we are way more worried about you harming or neglecting your child and dropping them off into our care... thus putting us in the window of suspicion when your kid dies or goes south on our watch than you are about us hurting your kid.

You are the biggest risk to your kid, my business, and ultimately my ability to care for my own. If we are going to have cameras we need to set them up at your house where the real true statistical risk for death and injury live.