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Daycare Center and Family Home Forum>New Regs And $125 Fee For Texas Providers? Tata Backfire
Cat Herder 10:08 AM 03-22-2011
Council member seeks daycare regulation
Houston Chronicle
By TERRI LANGFORD



As a result of the Houston day care tragedy last month, City Council Member Sue Lovell is working on a new ordinance that would require all home-based day care operators to register with the city and submit to an annual public safety inspection.

Home-based day care operators would be required to pay $100 plus a $25 administration fee for the annual inspection.

Inspections would be performed once a year by the Houston fire marshal’s office. That cost is more than three times the cost of an annual state license like the one held by Jessica Tata, accused of leaving seven children alone in her day care on Feb. 24. A fire broke out and killed four of the children.

“It’ll be good because you will have people coming in on an annual basis,” Lovell said.

Tata operated a registered day care home, the least regulated type of child care operation. Registered day care homes are inspected before opening and then every two years, by the Texas Department of Family and Protective Services.

The Texas day care license held by Tata cost $37.
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momofsix 10:29 AM 03-22-2011
The problem is there would be NOTHING in the physical environment that would show that a provider would leave the kids ALONE!!! All her dcp's had wonderful things to say about her, they saw her everyday and still had no clue at all! I don't think any type of yearly inspection/additional training/etc would have changed what she did. She KNEW she was wrong when she left to go to the store, but probably figured "what could happen in 15 minutes".

(unless of course, she set the fire to cover-up something like others have suggested. Have all the autopsies come back with cause of death been made public?)
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Zoe 10:30 AM 03-22-2011
I don't get how providers paying money for an annual inspection is going to help things! Don't we get inspected anyway for free? I'm confused....and I don't like being confused.....
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WImom 10:33 AM 03-22-2011
That's not going to do anything. I agree it's not going to help anything or would it have stopped her. We've had so many things added to our licensing regulations from bad providers that it really sucks being licensed now.
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JenNJ 10:55 AM 03-22-2011
Because charging people to be inspected is going to HELP? Ummm, no. It is going to discourage providers from wanting to be licensed at all.
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Blackcat31 10:59 AM 03-22-2011
Another knee jerk reaction so that people can feel safer but in reality it is not doing anything to solve what the real proble was in the first place.
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safechner 11:05 AM 03-22-2011
Are you kidding me? I wouldn't pay $100 and plus $25 Admission fee. It is not going change anything if we pay more. It is not Texas Providers' fault because of Tata. What an idiot! Good thing, I am done with my daycare business by this summer since my license will be expired by October 2011.
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Crystal 11:32 AM 03-22-2011
Well, I'm on the flip side here. I think it is WONDERFUL that there is going to be oversight. I think it is necessary to prevent OTHER things from happening, and it should have been enacted PRIOR to this tragedy.

Obviously, as has been stated already, inspection would not have prevented THIS accident, but had there been regs in place and fees required so that regs could be enforced, then it is likely that Jessica Tata never would have been caring for children in the first place....she would have undergone an FBI background check and her prior history would have been exposed. (most liklely) OR she would have been afraid that it would be exposed and would not have began caring for children anyway.Having licensing regs and annual inspections could prevent many other issues, and may force "bad" providers out of business.

In California I pay $127 annual licensing fee, PLUS $236 for my fire permit, PLUS $150ish for a city business permit. Expensive? Yes. Worth it? Yes.
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nannyde 11:34 AM 03-22-2011
The city is just cashing in on the Tata deal. They see an opportunity to make money with it and they went for it.

Doesn't have anything to do with what she did.

Maybe they shouldn't allow a 21 year old to have 7 kids by herself? Let's try that first.
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Crystal 11:36 AM 03-22-2011
Nanny, do you really think they will make money with this? I don't. It's not free or cheap to run licensing, conduct fire inspections or conduct annual visits. I think the fee will only be a drop in the bucket compared to what it will cost to set up and enforce regs.
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JenNJ 12:11 PM 03-22-2011
Crystal, how does paying a fee make the kids safer? Why not have regulations in place to educate and inform? How about making all providers have background checks YEARLY, mandatory ongoing education, and age requirements for providers? That would be a start to safety. Fees don't equal safe.
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Crystal 12:14 PM 03-22-2011
Originally Posted by JenNJ:
Crystal, how does paying a fee make the kids safer? Why not have regulations in place to educate and inform? How about making all providers have background checks YEARLY, mandatory ongoing education, and age requirements for providers? That would be a start to safety. Fees don't equal safe.
Fees pay for the services needed to enact and enforce regualtions, which keep kids safer. How would the State pay for these services if they do not charge it to the person seeking a license? Just as ANY other business is required to pay for their business permits, so too should child care providers.

And I think your suggestions are excellent!
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marniewon 01:02 PM 03-22-2011
How in the world will charging fees to do yearly fire inspections going to make any type of difference?? I can understand if the reason for the fire was faulty wiring, or something else out of the provider's control (but fixable if caught).

But no amount of fire inspections can fix stupidity!

I get the idea of all the inspections JenNJ mentioned, and I agree with all of those - but the fire inspection one just smells of either state greed or a state covering their a$$es (for giving her a license to begin with).
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Crystal 01:13 PM 03-22-2011
It's for Public Safety Inspection. It costs money to conduct inspections. It costs money to enact regulations.

Just as a restaraunt has to pay annual inspection fees, child care should also. I don't understand why you guys don't get that we are just like any other business.....although I think that our safety inspections are probably more important than many other types of businesses.

I find it odd that providers want to be treated just like any other business owner, as I am always hearing about how we Charge parents wether they attend or not and it's our right because we are a business and every other business owner gets paid time off, or parents still pay rent because it is "space" they are paying to have available wether they use it or not and child care is no different, but then when it comes time to act like any other business, we balk and stomp our feet because it costs us money.

It's $125 for the added assurance that children in child care are SAFER than if they had no inspection at all. I find that money well-spent.
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Blackcat31 01:16 PM 03-22-2011
Maybe in addition to being aware that we are checked for reg. violations when we get an unannounced visit from our licensors or our food program coordinator who counts kids for capacity checks, we are suppose to be fearful of fire trucks as well...every time the fire sirens go off or we see a fire truck drive by it will be a warning not to go to Target and shop.....

Sorry, I was being a smarta** but I do agree that the more trainings and educational requirements we have, as well as the more safety requirements we have all contribute to the safety of the kids we care for.
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Crystal 01:19 PM 03-22-2011
I'd like to add what my annual fires inspection entails:

Head count.....making sure not over capacity
Facility inspection: making sure smoke detectors and fire exptinguisher are up to date and in working condition, making sure all locks on exit doors are no-knowledge hardware and are in good working condition, checking hot water heater temp, checking all exit routes to ensure not blocked or locked, checking that fire retardent has been applied to all window coverings annually, checking logs of monthly fire drills.
Those are things I can list off the top of my head. They also will report any other deficiencies they observe, if any (I haven't had that happen) so licenisng can do a follow-up if needed.
They send two inspectors, who are here for about two hours. They then have to go back, fill out a report, submit the report, send a copy to licensing and then process my fire permit. I'm sure that all costs more than $125. ( I pay more, but using the Texas fee as an example)

I don't LIKE paying it, but I'm certainly not going to complain about having to pay to run my business.
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Symphony 01:21 PM 03-22-2011
Originally Posted by JenNJ:
Crystal, how does paying a fee make the kids safer? Why not have regulations in place to educate and inform? How about making all providers have background checks YEARLY, mandatory ongoing education, and age requirements for providers? That would be a start to safety. Fees don't equal safe.
In my state we are inspected 2x a year (one announced, one not) by fire and health. Licensing inspects 6x a year (one announced), we are required to take 30 hours of training biannually, and providers, spouses, and anyone over 18 in the house for more than two weeks has to have a background check every 3 months.

I pay $25/year, but I also live in an very sparsely populated state. We only have four inspectors in each category for the whole state.
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Crystal 01:22 PM 03-22-2011
Originally Posted by Blackcat31:
Maybe in addition to being aware that we are checked for reg. violations when we get an unannounced visit from our licensors or our food program coordinator who counts kids for capacity checks, we are suppose to be fearful of fire trucks as well...every time the fire sirens go off or we see a fire truck drive by it will be a warning not to go to Target and shop.....

Sorry, I was being a smarta** but I do agree that the more trainings and educational requirements we have, as well as the more safety requirements we have all contribute to the safety of the kids we care for.
I agree that we need more trainings and educational requirements as well. BUT, can you imagine the uproar IF providers were required to further their education????

BTW, How often are unnanounced visits in Texas?
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Crystal 01:23 PM 03-22-2011
Originally Posted by Symphony:
In my state we are inspected 2x a year (one announced, one not) by fire and health. Licensing inspects 6x a year (one announced), we are required to take 30 hours of training biannually, and providers, spouses, and anyone over 18 in the house for more than two weeks has to have a background check every 3 months.

I pay $25/year, but I also live in an very sparsely populated state. We only have four inspectors in each category for the whole state.
My goodness, what state are you in??!!
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nannyde 01:33 PM 03-22-2011
Originally Posted by Crystal:
Nanny, do you really think they will make money with this? I don't. It's not free or cheap to run licensing, conduct fire inspections or conduct annual visits. I think the fee will only be a drop in the bucket compared to what it will cost to set up and enforce regs.
Maybe I'm wrong... but I think Texas already requires registration. I'll look that up when I have a chance.

I think the operative part of this is: register with the city
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Symphony 01:43 PM 03-22-2011
Originally Posted by Crystal:
My goodness, what state are you in??!!
I'm in the Rocky Mountain states.
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Blackcat31 01:44 PM 03-22-2011
Originally Posted by Crystal:
I agree that we need more trainings and educational requirements as well. BUT, can you imagine the uproar IF providers were required to further their education????

BTW, How often are unnanounced visits in Texas?
I have no idea about unannouced visits in Texas but where I live, I have to say that I have been licensed for over 15+ years and NOT counting the visits I get when I renew my license (every 2 years) I have NEVER received an unannounced visit.

I did get a visit once from my licensor because a parent complained about something (she owed me money so she retailiated by saying something to the county.....) and a visit is required, but the licensor called and told me she would be stopping by so ????

I do think there would be a major uproar if providers were expected to further their educations, but maybe there are some other solutions such as limiting the number of kids you could legally have the first year you are open before being allowed to go to max capacity. Or maybe providers could enroll a certain number of children based off of how much training or documented experience they have...or they could be required to "intern" at another childcare for x amount of hours so they really can get a feel for what it is like being responsible for so may kids.

I really do not know the right answers but I do know that the system we have now is failing our children...impo. I think that if every provider on this board was really honest with themselves, they would admit that running a daycare is not really exactly what they thought it would be compared to what it really is. I have learned a ton over the years and am still learning today, and none of the things I have dealt with or faced in my career were ever things I would have thought I'd be dealing with.

Sure, we all know the ins and outs of children and their basic care but no one taught me about dealing with illnesses and late payments, no one taught me the stresses I would endure worrying about a child and how sick they are and no parent is coming for them, no one told me about the parents and how tough that part of the job would be, no one told me about eating and how weird kids can be about it. Most of the providers on this forum either have young children and can relate to the problems of young children but do not know the right answers more than anyone else or the providers have older children and have been there/done that but those same things do not work while trying to parent this new generation of children.

The only thing I do know is there is far too many things that happen in childcares (centers and homes) that should not be happening and doing something is better than doing nothing.
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Crystal 01:45 PM 03-22-2011
Originally Posted by nannyde:
Maybe I'm wrong... but I think Texas already requires registration. I'll look that up when I have a chance.

I think the operative part of this is: register with the city
Yes, I see that they have to be registered or licensed.....fees vary. I realize that this new fee will cover a fire safety inspection, which in hindsight should have been required long ago. No, it probably would not have prevented this tragedy, but it might prevent other tragedies. Being registered with the city is just one more way to ensure safety and compliance.

Looking at TX regs, I'd say the first thing they really need to look at is the number of children to one caregiver. 12:1 is not a good ratio, especially for a young, inexperienced, uneducated provider like Tata.
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jen 01:47 PM 03-22-2011
Just my 2 cents...

The daycare market is tough...We've got the truly high end care, they have the best of everything and the parents PAY for it. They increase their rates regularly to cover the cost to keep things tip-top. They don't complain about fees.

Most of us don't have parents that can afford to be paying the BIG bucks, and in fact complain about the little amount that they are paying. So, when the price of gas goes up, along with the cost of heating oil, milk, and just about everything else, the provider eats the cost. There is always somene around the corner who will charge less and parents looking to save a buck. Providers end up feeling angry and frustrated by the cost of doing business, especially since they are eating the additional fees being described here.

If we kept general track about how much our expense go up each year, and then adjusted our rates to reflect those increases, perhaps we wouldn't mind paying the fee...since WE wouldn't be paying it, rather the customer would be. Instead, not only are we not giving our selves a simple cost of living raise, we are literally making less money when we look at the increased expenses. Unfortunatly, kids usualy end up paying the biggest price with decreased quality, less activities, and more stressed out providers.
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Crystal 01:47 PM 03-22-2011
Blackcat....I'm right there with you. I feel the exact same way you do.
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daycare 03:54 PM 03-22-2011
Originally Posted by Crystal:
Well, I'm on the flip side here. I think it is WONDERFUL that there is going to be oversight. I think it is necessary to prevent OTHER things from happening, and it should have been enacted PRIOR to this tragedy.

Obviously, as has been stated already, inspection would not have prevented THIS accident, but had there been regs in place and fees required so that regs could be enforced, then it is likely that Jessica Tata never would have been caring for children in the first place....she would have undergone an FBI background check and her prior history would have been exposed. (most liklely) OR she would have been afraid that it would be exposed and would not have began caring for children anyway.Having licensing regs and annual inspections could prevent many other issues, and may force "bad" providers out of business.

In California I pay $127 annual licensing fee, PLUS $236 for my fire permit, PLUS $150ish for a city business permit. Expensive? Yes. Worth it? Yes.
wow where are you in CA that you pay so much in fees for your license and other certs? I am in SF one of the most expensive places in the US and I don't pay that much...
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daycare 04:02 PM 03-22-2011
I don't think any amount of education or required paid/unpaid inspections could prevent someone who is mentally ill like TATA...

But the county has to do something to show that they are trying to take action. I think they know that its not going to change anything!
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Tags:inspection, tata, texas
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