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Daycare Center and Family Home Forum>Reflux Baby, DCM Doesn't Want Meds
Unregistered 11:52 AM 09-17-2013
I have an almost 6 month old who will not sleep (10-30 minute intervals), chokes, gags and fusses on the bottle, and spits up constantly (we go through 2-3 outfits in 8 hours and 2-3 PNP sheets. Come to find out baby was diagnosed with reflux at 3 months old up mom didn't want meds.

Can I require mom to have something done about this issue? It's getting to the point of more work than is worth it. And I think MOm has been lying to me about the issue (claims it never happens at home, has no idea what could possibly be causing the no sleep issue). Now I find out baby had a diagnosis but mom didn't want meds,

Help!
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Cradle2crayons 11:54 AM 09-17-2013
Originally Posted by Unregistered:
I have an almost 6 month old who will not sleep (10-30 minute intervals), chokes, gags and fusses on the bottle, and spits up constantly (we go through 2-3 outfits in 8 hours and 2-3 PNP sheets. Come to find out baby was diagnosed with reflux at 3 months old up mom didn't want meds.

Can I require mom to have something done about this issue? It's getting to the point of more work than is worth it. And I think MOm has been lying to me about the issue (claims it never happens at home, has no idea what could possibly be causing the no sleep issue). Now I find out baby had a diagnosis but mom didn't want meds,

Help!
I would fill out one of my dr visit forms with the symptoms I see at my house, and have mom take it to the pediatrician and have it filled out and signed and returned within one week.
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Unregistered 11:58 AM 09-17-2013
Originally Posted by Cradle2crayons:
I would fill out one of my dr visit forms with the symptoms I see at my house, and have mom take it to the pediatrician and have it filled out and signed and returned within one week.
Are you willing to share your form?
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Cradle2crayons 11:58 AM 09-17-2013
Originally Posted by Unregistered:
Are you willing to share your form?
Of course!! Do yu want me to out it here or email it to you?
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Blackcat31 11:59 AM 09-17-2013
Originally Posted by Unregistered:
I have an almost 6 month old who will not sleep (10-30 minute intervals), chokes, gags and fusses on the bottle, and spits up constantly (we go through 2-3 outfits in 8 hours and 2-3 PNP sheets. Come to find out baby was diagnosed with reflux at 3 months old up mom didn't want meds.

Can I require mom to have something done about this issue? It's getting to the point of more work than is worth it. And I think MOm has been lying to me about the issue (claims it never happens at home, has no idea what could possibly be causing the no sleep issue). Now I find out baby had a diagnosis but mom didn't want meds,

Help!
Just be honest and tell mom that the child has become more work than you are able to handle while caring for other kids so you will need to terminate care arrangements.

If mom wants you to continue caring for him, I would require (NOT ask) that his medical needs be addressed.

If you do decide to keep him, have mom bring him to the doctor and then require that she bring you the entire doctor's statements that 100% fully explains the diagnosis AND treatment plan.

If at any time you feel that his treatment plan is not being followed, term.....continuing to care for a child in this condition is dangerous and I can only imagine what would happen if something happens to him while he is at your house.

I would also consider reporting this as not seeking medical attention for your child when needed is considered neglect, which is a form of abuse.
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Unregistered 12:01 PM 09-17-2013
Originally Posted by Cradle2crayons:
Of course!! Do yu want me to out it here or email it to you?
Please put it on here. Thank you so much.
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SilverSabre25 12:03 PM 09-17-2013
Gosh, that's just sad. I FIRMLY believe that reflux is caused in large part by food allergies/intolerances. As in, 9/10 times that's the culprit. If it bothers baby that much there are two options: treat with meds, or find and remove the problem food from the child's/mother's (if breastfeeding) diet.

If mom is unwilling to treat a medical condition then you'll have to term if the condition is causing unmanageable behavior.
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Unregistered 12:04 PM 09-17-2013
Originally Posted by Blackcat31:
Just be honest and tell mom that the child has become more work than you are able to handle while caring for other kids so you will need to terminate care arrangements.

If mom wants you to continue caring for him, I would require (NOT ask) that his medical needs be addressed.

If you do decide to keep him, have mom bring him to the doctor and then require that she bring you the entire doctor's statements that 100% fully explains the diagnosis AND treatment plan.

If at any time you feel that his treatment plan is not being followed, term.....continuing to care for a child in this condition is dangerous and I can only imagine what would happen if something happens to him while he is at your house.

I would also consider reporting this as not seeking medical attention for your child when needed is considered neglect, which is a form of abuse.
It's really started to make me uncomfortable, he will wake up coughing after 15 minutes and then spit up all over himself or me when I pick him up out of bed.

Mom claimed it didn't happen at all last week while they were on vacation, but happened a soon as he was bottle fed here.

Then I find out she took him to the dr when they first started here 3 months ago because of the choking and gagging and dr said it was mild reflux and prescribed meds, which she didn't want him on. I told her last week if it kept happening he would need treatment for me to care for him, then she says it didn't happen all last week (I find that very hard to believe considering within 30 minutes of being here he was choking on and spitting up from the bottle.)
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Cradle2crayons 12:04 PM 09-17-2013
REQUEST FOR DOCTOR VISIT BY PROVIDER

REASON FOR REQUEST : (I would put all babies symptoms as objectively as possible)

LENGTH SYMPTOMS HAVE PERSISTED:


TREATMENTS TRIED AND RESULTS this would be like sitting baby up after meals, rice cereal in formula, formula changes etc)


________________________________________________________________
BOTTOM TO BE FILLED OUT BY PHYSICIAN OR ASSISTANT ONLY


DIAGNOSIS:



TREATMENT:



PROGNOSIS:


NEED TO RECHECK CHILD:


DAYCARE CONCERNS:



_____________________
Date


_____________________
Signature of physician


_____________________
Physician phone number
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melilley 12:05 PM 09-17-2013
Poor baby! I wonder why the mom doesn't want her on meds.? Is she doing anything else to help the poor child?

My daughter had reflux and was diagnosed at around 2 mo. She threw up whole bottles and everything! Her ped. put her on meds and we had to put some rice cereal in her bottle, and had to have her sit up 30 min after every feeding (this was 10 years ago, I'm not sure if they still recommend the cereal in a bottle) and it helped tremendously!

If it's getting to be too much for you, I would have a talk with the mom. I know that it is hard work to take care of a baby who throws/spits up all the time, especially if it ends up all over you! Plus, you are constantly changing sheets, clothes and the worry of him choking while in your care.....
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Blackcat31 12:06 PM 09-17-2013
Here is the form I use for requested doctor visits.
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littlemissmuffet 12:06 PM 09-17-2013
Do you know WHY the mom is refusing meds?

The mom might not be lying... she could be holding the child for a period of time (20-30 mins) after feeds which typically helps reflux babies NOT to gag/spit up after eating (though I know most providers can't and wouldn't do this... I know I wouldn't).
My dd had reflux and we stopped giving her meds (we tried 2 kinds) as well because they actually just ended up making her projectile vomit... so we opted to just hold her upright after feeds when we could and deal with spit up if we couldn't. She's outgrown it over the last few months.


Perhaps mom has a good reason for not giving meds?
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Cradle2crayons 12:09 PM 09-17-2013
Reflux is EXTREMELY dangerous to not treat. We aren't talking about allergies here.


Untreated reflux can cause asthma, chronic breathing problems, ulcerated esophagus and all kinds of horrible things that can't be fixed.


As a victim of untreated childhood reflux and as a mother of two reflux babies, one worse than the other, I would say after this visit if she refuses to treat, I'd term and report her to DHS. Is THAT serious.

No mama ants their baby on medications. But if they know how serious is is and still refuse to treat, it's ABUSE, plain and simple.
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melilley 12:11 PM 09-17-2013
Originally Posted by Cradle2crayons:
Reflux is EXTREMELY dangerous to not treat. We aren't talking about allergies here.


Untreated reflux can cause asthma, chronic breathing problems, ulcerated esophagus and all kinds of horrible things that can't be fixed.


As a victim of untreated childhood reflux and as a mother of two reflux babies, one worse than the other, I would say after this visit if she refuses to treat, I'd term and report her to DHS. Is THAT serious.
Plus if it isn't treated, the child may need to have surgery down the road.
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Cradle2crayons 12:14 PM 09-17-2013
Originally Posted by melilley:
Plus if it isn't treated, the child may need to have surgery down the road.
Absolutely. And a lot of the complications it causes CAN'T be fixed. Like asthma, chronic ulcers, failure to thrive (from e baby refusing to eat because of e pain) and a lot of other problems.


For instance. Some babies are just naturally gassy. Sometimes it doesn't bother them at all. No pain or problems. Wy treat it if it doesn't bother them?? Sme babies are so gassy it HURTS. They cry, scream, they hurt badly. Still some parents don't want to use the OTC gas drops. Ad even though the child is uncomfortable, gas generally doesn't cause chronic problems if tis really just gas. But if the gas causes health problems, future issues, breathing problems, etc, then something needs to be done.

Some reflux can be treated just by changing formula. Some you have to take a step further by changing formula, and adding rice cereal. Sometimes nothing you can do helps, and at that point, there are meds used for a last resort. It's not rocket science, do yu want to give reflux meds now or end up doing six different asthma medicines..l having to subject yr baby to countless scopes, constant hospitalizations with ulcers and breathing problems. Again, common sense.

When I was a kid, my mom took me to the doc wi heartburn problems. The doc gave me Tagamet back then. My parents gave it to me for a few months and then stopped. They weren't educated on reflux. They had no idea I still had it. They didn't know what long term reflux etc does to a kid.

I have severe asthma, severe lung problems, esophageal ulcers, I've had an ulcer burst and had to have emergency surgery when I was 20. At 21 I had one of the very first reflux surgeries done in the state. And it fixed the hernia and reflux. But it couldn't fix the damage.

When my daughter was born with severe reflux, I took it very seriously. We did meds, rice cereal, all kinds of things but it wasn't as controlled as we wanted it to be. She developed asthma as an infant. At the time, they recommended waiting u til she was older to do the reflux surgery so we waited. She still takes reflux medications.

My son had mild reflux. We treated him for one year. He's not had it since.
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aDCProvider 12:39 PM 09-17-2013
Originally Posted by littlemissmuffet:
Do you know WHY the mom is refusing meds?

The mom might not be lying... she could be holding the child for a period of time (20-30 mins) after feeds which typically helps reflux babies NOT to gag/spit up after eating (though I know most providers can't and wouldn't do this... I know I wouldn't).
My dd had reflux and we stopped giving her meds (we tried 2 kinds) as well because they actually just ended up making her projectile vomit... so we opted to just hold her upright after feeds when we could and deal with spit up if we couldn't. She's outgrown it over the last few months.


Perhaps mom has a good reason for not giving meds?
Mom said it did not happen all week. I DO hold him upright or put him in a chair sitting upright for 30 minutes afterwards.
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Cradle2crayons 12:41 PM 09-17-2013
Originally Posted by Asmithdaycare:
Mom said it did not happen all week. I DO hold him upright or put him in a chair sitting upright for 30 minutes afterwards.
If putting him upright for 30 minutes after isn't helping at all, I sincerely doubt it isn't happening at home.

That's why I make parents take my form to the doctor. I've had parents take a child to the doc because I required it, and then LIE to the doctor and then LIE to me.

So I take at out of the equation.
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littlemissmuffet 12:44 PM 09-17-2013
Originally Posted by Asmithdaycare:
Mom said it did not happen all week. I DO hold him upright or put him in a chair sitting upright for 30 minutes afterwards.
Hmmm, then she's obviously not being honest. I would have a chat witrh her, as per BC's advice above.

C2C, most cases of infant reflux are not so severe that if left untreated would cause the long-term damage you are talking about. It can and does obviously happen - but we don't know the severity of the OP's DCK's reflux to go ahead and say that not treating it could be considered abuse.
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lovemylife 12:46 PM 09-17-2013
Poor baby! From experience I know how hard this is! My son had acid reflux when he was a baby. It was so bad that they worried he had pyloric stenosis. Thankfully he didn't. We tried all the acid reflux medicine, it helped a little but not much. We also added rice cereal to his bottles. I'm honestly not sure if you are allowed to do that with a dck but if I were you I would check and ask mom. My sons sleeping was really bad. Always waking up crying in pain. We tried elevating the head of the crib but it never worked. He would either roll/slip down. Tried a pillow under the mattress. We finally ended up trying the Rock N Play. That was a miracle! He started sleeping for longer periods of time and wouldn't cry out in pain. The spitting up didn't happen as often. The down side to the rock n play: it took weeks of sleepless nights to get him transitioned back into the crib.

I agree with other posters. It is serious and the mother should not ignore it! Did she say why she doesn't want the baby on meds? Like an allergy to them or something?
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Cradle2crayons 12:50 PM 09-17-2013
Originally Posted by littlemissmuffet:
Hmmm, then she's obviously not being honest. I would have a chat witrh her, as per BC's advice above.

C2C, most cases of infant reflux are not so severe that if left untreated would cause the long-term damage you are talking about. It can and does obviously happen - but we don't know the severity of the OP's DCK's reflux to go ahead and say that not treating it could be considered abuse.
That's just it, we don't know for sure. But it appears as if mom doesn't care.... And enough to lie about it too, a parent lying is a term offense for me. A last resort though.

My main focus would be e fact that if the baby has the symptoms the OP says, it isn't simply a mild case of reflux. Any reflux, even a mild case, CAN cause damage. The damage can go from mild to severe. Depending on the amount and acidity oh of the stomach acid that comes up.

The oral meds that treat it doesn't really affect the actual act of spitting up. The goal is to LOWER the amount and caustic nature of the contents that are coming up. Things like rice cereal and propping baby are what helps what goes down stay down. Generally there is a multiple approach. One treatment to lower the acidity. And other treatments to decrease the amount and frequency of the contents coming back up.

Reflux in babies is usually caused by an immature sphincter and not a hiatal hernia. Sometimes babies are born without e sphincter at all. Some babies have a small flap and some have flaps that grow a little and end up covering the area as it should.

since there is no good way to find out which case it is, docs generally start by propping them, using rice cereal to make the formula heavier, changing formulas etc.... If that doesn't work, they add oral meds and continue doing the others.

Maybe mom just doesn't understand how serious it is?
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littlemissmuffet 01:14 PM 09-17-2013
Originally Posted by Cradle2crayons:
That's just it, we don't know for sure. But it appears as if mom doesn't care.... And enough to lie about it too, a parent lying is a term offense for me. A last resort though.

My main focus would be e fact that if the baby has the symptoms the OP says, it isn't simply a mild case of reflux. Any reflux, even a mild case, CAN cause damage. The damage can go from mild to severe. Depending on the amount and acidity oh of the stomach acid that comes up.

The oral meds that treat it doesn't really affect the actual act of spitting up. The goal is to LOWER the amount and caustic nature of the contents that are coming up. Things like rice cereal and propping baby are what helps what goes down stay down. Generally there is a multiple approach. One treatment to lower the acidity. And other treatments to decrease the amount and frequency of the contents coming back up.

Reflux in babies is usually caused by an immature sphincter and not a hiatal hernia. Sometimes babies are born without e sphincter at all. Some babies have a small flap and some have flaps that grow a little and end up covering the area as it should.

since there is no good way to find out which case it is, docs generally start by propping them, using rice cereal to make the formula heavier, changing formulas etc.... If that doesn't work, they add oral meds and continue doing the others.

Maybe mom just doesn't understand how serious it is?


Yes, WE don't know. Maybe mom does... she is, afterall, the child's mother.

One of my dd's NICU docs insisted her reflux was bad enough that she required meds. After weeks of us testing out propping her up, giving her smaller feeds, etc and seeing that the reflux was reduced greatly then we realized she didn't NEED the meds - that were basically only causing her to barf, instead of spit up. We spoke to the other NICU docs, her ped and our family doctor all of whom agreed our dd shouldn't have been put on meds (that have their own set of complications!) before trying other things first.

SO... that being said, no two doctors diagnose and prescribe the same. The doc could have easily diagnosed the child with reflux and went straight to writing a script without having the mom try alternative methods first.

My dd was spitting up ALL DAY LONG, changing clothes 4-6 times, etc - seemed very serious, until we learned that holding her uprgiht after feeds and having her sleep on a slight incline would help

I do very much inderstand what you are saying - however, the OP gave us such little information to go on that we simply cannot jump to the conclusion that this baby's case of reflux (if that's even what it is... infants are often mistakenly diagnosed with relux when they have a simple allergy to milk proteins) is being IGNORED or mistreated by the mother.

Though I am inclined to agree that this mom could be lying about the spitting up notoccuring at home - it might not be... my kiddo did the majority of her spitting up and gagging during morning and afternoon feeds. Night feeds were a breeze... mom might truly not see what's happening like the DC provider is.
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littlemissmuffet 01:16 PM 09-17-2013
The reality is, the OP needs to discuss this issue with the mother - ask questions - if she's tried other methods, why she doesn't want to use meds, if she deals with most of the feedings when the child is home (or is it dad, grandma, etc).
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Tags:parents - don't cooperate, reflux
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