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  #1  
Old 08-17-2018, 07:40 AM
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Default You're Not My Friend

Do you stop kids when they say this? I have 2 kids who DO NOT GET ALONG. One is going to PreK next week so they won't be together much longer. Yesterday DCB4 told DCG4 "you're not my friend". I paid close attention and it did not escalate from there, so I let it go. Do you correct it? In his defense, she is not nice! Ever! To Anyone!

Last edited by Michael; 08-18-2018 at 11:26 AM.
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Old 08-17-2018, 07:46 AM
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I don't correct it unless it gets mean or nasty.

Otherwise, no we are not all friends.

You do have to be polite, respectful and kind but I am not in the "we all have to be friends" camp and don't force the DCK's to be either.
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Old 08-17-2018, 08:01 AM
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I tell them that they don't HAVE to like each other or be friends, but they DO have to respect each other, and that yelling "you're not my friend" isn't respectful. Then, sometimes, we need to work on something different that they could say when they are mad that isn't mean.
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Old 08-17-2018, 08:20 AM
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Those words are, in of themselves, mean.

So I intervene.

You don't go around announcing the people aren't your friends...
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Old 08-17-2018, 08:59 AM
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Originally Posted by hwichlaz View Post
Those words are, in of themselves, mean.

So I intervene.

You don't go around announcing the people aren't your friends...
Why not?

I am not friends with everyone and I see nothing wrong with saying "you are not my friend".

I see it as a factual statement.

The tone or way you say it might lend to it being perceived as mean but not everyone is a friend.
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Old 08-17-2018, 09:42 AM
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Originally Posted by gumdrops View Post
Do you stop kids when they say this? I have 2 kids who DO NOT GET ALONG. One is going to PreK next week so they won't be together much longer. Yesterday DCB4 told DCG4 "you're not my friend". I paid close attention and it did not escalate from there, so I let it go. Do you correct it? In his defense, she is not nice! Ever! To Anyone!
I don't correct for just saying "you're not my friend", but if things starts to escalate, I will remind kids that if they can't be nice towards one another they need to play in separate spaces
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Old 08-17-2018, 10:31 AM
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"Oh, Sarah is angry. It's ok to be angry, but it's not ok to be unkind."

I had a mom tell my loudest dck that EVERYONE IS BEST FRIENDS. He repeats it every time this comes up. I just tell him no, everyone is not friends, BUT everyone need to be kind.
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Old 08-17-2018, 11:33 AM
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For me its ok not to be friends with everyone but saying “you’re not my friend” is a power stance. I remind them that it is ok to not be friends but that saying this to get the other child to comply or manipulate them is wrong.

So many kids use “you’re not invited to my birthday party then” if another child doesn’t give in to their wishes so I intervene for that, its bullying.
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Old 08-17-2018, 11:38 AM
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Originally Posted by Blackcat31 View Post
Why not?

I am not friends with everyone and I see nothing wrong with saying "you are not my friend".

I see it as a factual statement.

The tone or way you say it might lend to it being perceived as mean but not everyone is a friend.
It's a social construct not to point out negative things that may hurt feelings when it is wholly unnecessary. It's not different than saying to someone, "I don't care for your shirt." It's not needed. It's best to keep it to yourself.
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Old 08-17-2018, 11:42 AM
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Trying to think how to explain, lol.

There are many factual statements that hurt feelings and should be kept to yourself. I'll give examples...

You have a really bit wart on your nose.

You're voice is really masculine/feminine.

Your teeth are crooked.




None of things are nice to say, but they are mostly factual. There are times, where the conversation is necessary, but otherwise...keep it to yourself.
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Old 08-17-2018, 01:00 PM
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Originally Posted by hwichlaz View Post
It's a social construct not to point out negative things that may hurt feelings when it is wholly unnecessary. It's not different than saying to someone, "I don't care for your shirt." It's not needed. It's best to keep it to yourself.
I don't view saying someone is not your friend as negative. Sometimes it's good that some people aren't friends. lol!


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Originally Posted by hwichlaz View Post
Trying to think how to explain, lol.

There are many factual statements that hurt feelings and should be kept to yourself. I'll give examples...

You have a really bit wart on your nose.

You're voice is really masculine/feminine.

Your teeth are crooked.




None of things are nice to say, but they are mostly factual. There are times, where the conversation is necessary, but otherwise...keep it to yourself.
lol! I know what you mean or at least what you are trying to say but I still don't see it that way.

In response to the examples you posted above...some are observations, some are opinions etc and all are probably blunt or not as tactful as we think they should be but it's all still okay in my book.

*********************************
This just happened here shortly before lunch:

3 yr old Curtis plays well with most of the kids in daycare but he does not play well with Oscar. Oscar and Curtis just don't get along. They are not friends.

Oscar comes over to where Curtis is playing and says "I want to play." Curtis does not want to play with Oscar and doesn't want him to join the activity so Curtis says "No. You are not my friend".

I don't think there is anything wrong with that.
It's not hurtful, mean or bullying in any way.
It's simply the fact. Oscar and Curtis are not friends.

They have a history that proves that so I don't expect Curtis to say anything but that.
Yes, he could probably say something like "You can have a turn as soon as I am finished but I am playing."

But I am not really in the camp of walking on egg shells so someone isn't offended or upset by someone else's thoughts or words (unless truly meant to be hurtful) and honestly think that is part of the reason our society has become so sensitive. Seem everything (no matter how small) is offensive to someone.

Maybe I see this different because I am very blunt and factual when speaking and have always have been.

I am forever saying "It's not what you say but how you say it" so I still think telling another person you are not their friend is perfectly acceptable to do. Again unless purposely meant to be hurtful or used as leverage to influence someone's actions/behaviors.
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Old 08-17-2018, 02:14 PM
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Originally Posted by Blackcat31 View Post
I don't view saying someone is not your friend as negative. Sometimes it's good that some people aren't friends. lol!




lol! I know what you mean or at least what you are trying to say but I still don't see it that way.

In response to the examples you posted above...some are observations, some are opinions etc and all are probably blunt or not as tactful as we think they should be but it's all still okay in my book.

*********************************
This just happened here shortly before lunch:

3 yr old Curtis plays well with most of the kids in daycare but he does not play well with Oscar. Oscar and Curtis just don't get along. They are not friends.

Oscar comes over to where Curtis is playing and says "I want to play." Curtis does not want to play with Oscar and doesn't want him to join the activity so Curtis says "No. You are not my friend".

I don't think there is anything wrong with that.
It's not hurtful, mean or bullying in any way.
It's simply the fact. Oscar and Curtis are not friends.

They have a history that proves that so I don't expect Curtis to say anything but that.
Yes, he could probably say something like "You can have a turn as soon as I am finished but I am playing."

But I am not really in the camp of walking on egg shells so someone isn't offended or upset by someone else's thoughts or words (unless truly meant to be hurtful) and honestly think that is part of the reason our society has become so sensitive. Seem everything (no matter how small) is offensive to someone.

Maybe I see this different because I am very blunt and factual when speaking and have always have been.

I am forever saying "It's not what you say but how you say it" so I still think telling another person you are not their friend is perfectly acceptable to do. Again unless purposely meant to be hurtful or used as leverage to influence someone's actions/behaviors.

Maybe it's that I've NEVER heard it without negative tone or emotion behind it. It's always been used as a weapon to hurt feelings...usually to someone that IS their friend when the tables are turned.
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  #13  
Old 08-17-2018, 02:39 PM
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Originally Posted by hwichlaz View Post
Maybe it's that I've NEVER heard it without negative tone or emotion behind it. It's always been used as a weapon to hurt feelings...usually to someone that IS their friend when the tables are turned.
Absolutely understand that.

When my son was small he lacked tact in speaking and as he aged, said things in a very matter-of-fact way and through that experience I learned alot.... and had the opportunity to "hear" it in a different light.

Without that experience I would probably be in the "we are all friends" camp.

My DS was a very "difficult" child but in hindsight he taught me more than any other child has thus far and all through what I viewed then as defiant, difficult and/or exhausting behaviors.
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Old 08-17-2018, 02:46 PM
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Originally Posted by Leigh View Post
I tell them that they don't HAVE to like each other or be friends, but they DO have to respect each other, and that yelling "you're not my friend" isn't respectful. Then, sometimes, we need to work on something different that they could say when they are mad that isn't mean.
I agree. When I hear a child say, "You're not my friend", I ask, "How would you feel if he said that to you?" I explain that you don't have to be friends but you do have to treat each other with respect - treat others the way you would want to be treated.
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  #15  
Old 08-17-2018, 04:03 PM
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I'm more "real world" when it comes to certain situations and something like this falls under that, kind of like sharing. In real life, people can't force me to like someone or be friends with someone ... I can avoid people I don't like and at minimum have to be civil so as long as the line is said once and not used as an attack or way to make someone cry I ignore it. If it's the latter then I just redirect them.
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  #16  
Old 08-18-2018, 03:55 AM
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Originally Posted by Ariana View Post
So many kids use “you’re not invited to my birthday party then” if another child doesn’t give in to their wishes so I intervene for that, its bullying.
This phrase drives me so crazy. I'm curious to hear how people respond to this one.
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Old 08-21-2018, 08:22 PM
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I always said if you can't say something nice don't say anything. You don't have to be friends but you can't be mean.
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Old 08-22-2018, 12:39 AM
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Yes! I think this is already a form of bullying.
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Old 08-22-2018, 02:05 AM
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Originally Posted by hwichlaz View Post
It's a social construct not to point out negative things that may hurt feelings when it is wholly unnecessary. It's not different than saying to someone, "I don't care for your shirt." It's not needed. It's best to keep it to yourself.
Exactly. My parents always told me if I had nothing nice to say to not say anything. If you've got sensitive children involved, it can be especially hurtful. It doesn't help any situation to tell them they're not your friend, or you don't like them or they're not invited to their birthday party(yeh, that's the big one here too). Kids need to learn they're not going to like or get along with everybody in life but they do need to learn to get along or walk away.
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Old 08-22-2018, 05:56 AM
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Depending on the situation, I might step in with a redirection. To the one being hollered at "You are not my friend!" If over the top, then "Hey Sally it look like Molly is not wanting to play right now. How about you ask Anna if she would like to play with you." Once Sally walks away and resumes play else where, Molly tends to be desperate to join in "IWAANAPLAYTOOOOOOOOOOO." Depends on whether they just what to play alone or with a particular child, or if it was a power play to make someone do what they want. Power play situations diffuse quick when the other person walks away.
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Old 08-23-2018, 01:00 PM
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I had two girls going at it terribly. They're 7. It went on all day. Finally one of them says you know what I just don't like you. I probably shouldn't have said this, but I did. I told her that's okay cuz she doesn't like you either. She just looked at me and stared. I told her you don't have to like everybody but you don't have to be mean about it either. I am so ready for school to start
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Old 08-23-2018, 06:02 PM
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I don't correct things like this unless they involve me or it gets physical. Kids who say things like that need to experience how others react when they do that. Kids who get things like that said to them need to learn how to handle it or maybe explore why it was said to them. I will "sportscast" through it, but it's a good learning experience for both in my opinion! Not everyone is going to like you or be nice. Best to learn it young. I might say things like, "yeah, it made you feel sad when Sally said that, huh? I wonder if Sally is feeling like she wants to play alone right now." Usually they just both toddle off and forget about it. Wish more adults could let go like that!
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Old 08-24-2018, 02:04 AM
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I don't view saying someone is not your friend as negative. Sometimes it's good that some people aren't friends. lol!




lol! I know what you mean or at least what you are trying to say but I still don't see it that way.

In response to the examples you posted above...some are observations, some are opinions etc and all are probably blunt or not as tactful as we think they should be but it's all still okay in my book.

*********************************
This just happened here shortly before lunch:

3 yr old Curtis plays well with most of the kids in daycare but he does not play well with Oscar. Oscar and Curtis just don't get along. They are not friends.

Oscar comes over to where Curtis is playing and says "I want to play." Curtis does not want to play with Oscar and doesn't want him to join the activity so Curtis says "No. You are not my friend".

I don't think there is anything wrong with that.
It's not hurtful, mean or bullying in any way.
It's simply the fact. Oscar and Curtis are not friends.

They have a history that proves that so I don't expect Curtis to say anything but that.
Yes, he could probably say something like "You can have a turn as soon as I am finished but I am playing."

But I am not really in the camp of walking on egg shells so someone isn't offended or upset by someone else's thoughts or words (unless truly meant to be hurtful) and honestly think that is part of the reason our society has become so sensitive. Seem everything (no matter how small) is offensive to someone.
No, our society has not "become too sensitive", our society has become more comfortable with pointing out rudeness and inappropriate language/behavior. If loudly announcing to someone that you are not their friend is considered rude and unneccesary by pretty much everyone except oneself, and as you can see in the thread it is, there's a really good chance that's it actually rude. It may be time to really reevaluate that rather than hiding behind/clinging to some beliefs that "our society has become too sensitive".
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Old 08-24-2018, 07:18 AM
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No, our society has not "become too sensitive", our society has become more comfortable with pointing out rudeness and inappropriate language/behavior. If loudly announcing to someone that you are not their friend is considered rude and unneccesary by pretty much everyone except oneself, and as you can see in the thread it is, there's a really good chance that's it actually rude. It may be time to really reevaluate that rather than hiding behind/clinging to some beliefs that "our society has become too sensitive".

Still not seeing it... how did one child in my example LOUDLY announce "you are not my friend?"

He didn't stand up and shout it from the roof top. He said it in reply to one other person in a normal tone of voice and stated factually. There was no personal insult, no comment on appearance or the other child's person/personality. There was nothing more said than "You are not my friend".

I see it as "the sky is blue". There is nothing hurtful in that factual statement other than the "idea" that someone isn't liked by someone else.

In my eyes, that could be considered disrespectful and rude in regards to the other child. His feelings (stating his likes/dislikes) are being brushed off as not nice and even as bullying-like behavior in some perspectives and therefore not valid or important. (according to the "everyone must be friends" ideology)

We tell our children to be strong in their convictions, thoughts and beliefs and to never let others tell the how to think or feel or behave. We place a high admiration on people who have charismatic personalities and we strive to be like them, but when we see this type of strong confident behavior in children we immediately cringe and stop praising or appreciating a child that knows what they want and isn't afraid to say/do/live it and point out how wrong their actions are towards others and possibly percieved by others.

So yes, our society HAS gotten overly sensitive.

Sadly everyone (general society) seems to have allowed everyone else to define them who they are and what they think, feel or say.

I don't. I don't give others that kind of power. My thoughts, actions and beliefs come from within. If that makes someone perceive something I've said or done differently or as rude, unkind, bullying or mean etc... perhaps it's time to take a look at the listener not the speaker.

This reminds me of an article a while back about strong women. Everyone wants their daughters to be strong and confident women but the minute they are, society calls them a bitch or bossy. Hmm, seems we all want transparency and honesty but not if it might hurt their feelings.

So thank you for your perspective. I appreciate and respect your opinion but I don't agree with it.

But that IS okay. I'm not loudly announcing it, trying to be mean, rude or a bully.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Unregistered View Post
No, our society has not "become too sensitive", our society has become more comfortable with pointing out rudeness and inappropriate language/behavior. If loudly announcing to someone that you are not their friend is considered rude and unneccesary by pretty much everyone except oneself, and as you can see in the thread it is, there's a really good chance that's it actually rude. It may be time to really reevaluate that rather than hiding behind/clinging to some beliefs that "our society has become too sensitive".
The bolded is exactly what I am referring to when I said "allowing others to define them"

So because other's feel my opinion is rude and unnecessary therefore it is. ?

That's an interesting concept. Never one I've considered.

I've always trusted my own ethical and moral compass. I've never been one to blindly follow along.
So I honestly have no idea what to do with that statement.

*hint~ I am not going to change my opinion because everyone else thinks differently.


*********************************************
Random
Interesting comments I've heard recently (this topic) and mostly agree with:

"An attitude that all are equal and everyone is good at everything will lead to mediocrity."

"Nowadays, everything is more than likely to be labeled as “shaming” if you’re on the so-called “wrong” side of the fence. We’ve gotten to a place where we’d rather not address elephants in the room for fear of being labeled a shamer or a basher."

"We’ve adopted this mindset where if we hear something that offends us, our first instinct is to gather up a crowd and make a public spectacle of it. We’ve become so over the top that we’re either “too radical” for speaking out on certain issues or censored in fear of being called out for talking about them."

"There are so many “narratives” that we wish to change in this world, but we can’t change them without fixing the problems, and we can’t identify the problems if we’re too scared to talk about theories, ideas and the reality of what is."

"We miss the cold hard facts because we’re too busy playing the victim and being offended by something that appeared to contain bias."
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Old 08-24-2018, 08:58 AM
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My own kid is the one that had told "your not my friend to another kid". As well as one dcb, most of the time I let them continue playing if I hear this. I'll step in if they start arguing and just say right now let's play expertly we need time apart before we can play as friends.
Now my own also used the line you can come to my birthday twice (as far as I know). Told one dkg that no girls were allowed at his party. I stepped in and reminded him that yes girls were coming, that he has non dk friends and cousins that are girls . But did not tell him he had to invite her, (which he never for 2 reasons a. He really did not like playing with him, and b. They left daycare before his party). And he told me it once after being asked to clean his toys I told him fine no worrys but remember that I was the parent who makes his cake and decorations. I was quickly invited back.
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Old 08-24-2018, 09:34 AM
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Sadly everyone (general society) seems to have allowed everyone else to define them who they are and what they think, feel or say.

BC, this is all too true and I am guilty of allowing myself to fall into this pattern too. If what I say, feel, do, look like, etc. aren't validated by someone, anyone, then I feel like I'm lesser than the general population. Stupid and petty but true. And from the way people use social media such as FB, I don't think I'm alone with that.
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Old 08-24-2018, 10:45 AM
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When things like that are said I know it's time to have a sharing circle. I'll gather the group at the table and we'll have a talk. Everyone gets a chance to air their grievances in whatever way it comes out. If they're angry I let them be angry, then I (and the group) acknowledge the fact that the child(ren) is angry, we talk about why, and I allow them to come up with suggestions on how things could be worked out or changed.
With the "not my friend" topic, I explain that they don't have to be friends, that there's no rule saying they need to be friends, but they must be respectful and compassionate. It always always turns into "Welllll...... 'Lulu is not really NOT my friend because sometimes she braids my hair....." or " Well, I think we're kind of friends because we both really like sticks" and the other child "Ya! We do, we really love sticks!" etc....
We always end by going around the table and saying something kind about each other. It's a very important time for the children, having the chance to vent, to have their feelings acknowledged, and to come up with solutions with minimal adult interference is very empowering.
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Old 08-24-2018, 12:28 PM
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I intervene for the "your not my friend" comment. It's rude and that's what I tell my kids. They are usually saying things like that to try to control another kid and get them to do what they want. It's not okay to try to force another kid to do what one wants. They have the right to decline and using verbal tactics such as "fine, you're not my friend anymore. Come on (insert name of another child here)." Is not okay with me. It's okay to say what you feel but not to hurt someone just because your mad. My daughter and niece are like sisters and fight like this sometimes and it really hurts (everyone involved) when it happens so it's not allowed.
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