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Daycare Center and Family Home Forum>Attachment Parenting Has Been On My Mind
Indoorvoice 07:10 AM 07-07-2014
Originally Posted by nannyde:
I didn't read it as disrespectful at ALL. I just wanted to clarify that there are other methods that net sleeping babies without being rigid.

I was lucky to pull it off so young but I had a very big baby. He's turning 14 and is already 6 foot tall. I couldn't have carried that moose around if I wanted to. I would be on disability now.

I wouldn't have put up with a baby who could leg up over the side of the crib (which were deep in those days) being up all night. I couldn't. I had to work. Before he was six weeks I fed him on the schedule of my evening kids departure. That way I could sleep in between.

He slept 10 to 5 and then over weeks to come I added fifteen minutes on each end. He slept a twelve hour night by the time he was six months or so. 7 to 7.
That's great! True proof that each parent needs to do what works for them. It's not the ONLY way to teach a baby how to sleep through the night though. I too had to work and tried cio. I couldn't handle the incessant screaming at night so I chose to keep my babies in my room (in a pack n play). They slept great there and we gradually moved them to their own rooms and I didn't have to do cio.

I know your ultimate goal of this thread wasnt to have a debate about AP. I agree that it is tough to replicate in daycare. That is why as providers we do interviews to make sure the family fits with our views and practices.

I guess I just wanted to point out that I don't think there is any one style or set of practices that will always 100% of the time net great kids. So much more goes into it. Socioeconomic status, location, number of siblings, age of parents, medications, etc, etc... All plays a part in how smart and well behaved a child turns out. Obviously your ways work great for you, but another parent might use the same techniques and have a terrible child. Just because it works for you, doesn't mean it will work for everyone and just because you have seen success doesn't mean it is the only way that works.
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Heidi 07:44 AM 07-07-2014
Originally Posted by midaycare:
I really didn't want to post this, because it sounds snotty and horrible, but you keep asking the question, so I will respond. Please forgive how it sounds, because I am not a snotty person. Just stating for your research.

I did AP for my son, now 6. I did not join any forums or communities. As I stated, I took what worked for us and ditched the rest, but I followed it relatively closey, while also following my mother's intuition.

I have the child you are talking about. People stop me all the time - I'm not kidding - to tell me how sweet, kind, well-adjusted, and smart he is. He is a favorite of every teacher he has had, and they all keep in touch with him. His teacher from 2 years ago actually makes "play dates" with him. Yes, I go too. They play at the park for an hour once every three or four months. Nothing weird, I promise. They are just close. His previous daycare providers all keep in touch. Not with me, with him. The secretary and principal of the school love him. Everyone in church loves him. People I don't even know come up to me to give him Easter and Christmas presents because they say he is such a wonderful boy. Caring, giving, sweet.

I actually got into daycare earlier this year because last year a family member paid me a huge compliment. She said, "I would like to know if you would watch my infant daughter for me. From watching your son, I want my daughter to have the upbringing he did, and if I can't be there, then I want you to watch her for me."

So ... Is this the effects of AP? I believe some of it is. My son is very secure because be knew from a very early age that his needs would be met. No need to worry. Does that mean he never has a stress in his life? Nope. We have plenty, and we handle them. In his short life, he has moved 4 times, twice cross country leaving family and friends. It wasn't easy - but he felt safe, even in the midst of loss and confusion.

AP is not a true form of parenting. It is a way to react, most of the time, proactively, to a child. AP must be done also with good parenting, IMO. They are two different things.

I am in no way stating I am the ultimate parent. But something worked well and I did AP, so I don't think it's fair to say that AP kids are spoiled, rotten, and can't adjust.
Likewise, I don't want to sound snotty, either. Your sons sounds like a sweetie, and clearly has a wonderful mommy.

On the "flip side" of that coin, I have had 4 of my own children (ages 13-24), who were definately NOT raised in the AP style. Whether it was laziness or philosophy on my part, I always wanted my own children to fit into our world; not make the world fit around them. Of course, the first few months, I fed on demand, and they napped according to their schedules. But, I found out with my first that pretty quickly, if put down awake in their own beds on their own time, they developed patterns.

I, too, have been complimented many times over on how well adjusted and happy my young children were. When I had to put my almost 2 year old in an aquaintances' daycare for two weeks (until she turned 2) to stay in my ratios (new kiddo starting), she spent an hour in the toddler room, and then was moved to the preschool room. The provider could not believe how self-sufficient she was! When my sons were in the same classroom the in their open-classroom program, other parents asked "what is your secret; they get along so well!"

I have to say for me, things did change once they got to a traditional classroom. My independent, self-sufficient, happy preschoolers and grade-schoolers (we moved) became non-conforming, non-producing students. Every one of them shut down under the structure of "sit down and do what you're supposed to do when you're supposed to do it".

My oldest two both graduated from and on-line public school, both a couple months early. My youngest two are in a charter project based middle and high school, and that seems to be working a lot better for them. For the most part, they are all independent thinkers, creative, a little weird. My second one just finished 4 years on the Army (Sniper), and is now starting college to become a doctor (we'll see). He hated the structure of the Army (hurry up and wait), but it was a means-to-and-end. He wanted adventure and to get college money.

So, that's an outcome for you, Nan. It's the outcome of NON-AP parenting.
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Sugar Magnolia 09:55 AM 07-07-2014
I just don't see this epidemic of spoiled kids. Yeah, I see SOME kids that are snotty, disrespectful and spoiled. I also see many more good kids who do act right, behave and show respect for adults and teachers.

Same with adults. Go visit Miami, you will find some pushy, entitled, obnoxious adults there. They are easy to spot. But you are going to see many friendly, normal people
too, they just aren't as easy to spot.

Same with life in general. There's good, there's bad, there's beautiful, there's ugly.

Seriously now...aren't most parents "attached" to their kids? The name itself implies "hey some parents AREN'T attached to their kids, or their kids are not attached to them." I'm attached to my kids, but I didn't co sleep or breast feed, sooooo......I'm not a good parent then? Whatever.

Some kids behave , some don't. Some adults behave well, some don't. I don't need to see any stats on the success of AP to tell me that.
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Laurel 10:28 AM 07-07-2014
Originally Posted by Sugar Magnolia:
I just don't see this epidemic of spoiled kids. Yeah, I see SOME kids that are snotty, disrespectful and spoiled. I also see many more good kids who do act right, behave and show respect for adults and teachers.

Same with adults. Go visit Miami, you will find some pushy, entitled, obnoxious adults there. They are easy to spot. But you are going to see many friendly, normal people
too, they just aren't as easy to spot.

Same with life in general. There's good, there's bad, there's beautiful, there's ugly.

Seriously now...aren't most parents "attached" to their kids? The name itself implies "hey some parents AREN'T attached to their kids, or their kids are not attached to them." I'm attached to my kids, but I didn't co sleep or breast feed, sooooo......I'm not a good parent then? Whatever.

Some kids behave , some don't. Some adults behave well, some don't. I don't need to see any stats on the success of AP to tell me that.


Well said. I agree. I haven't seen an epidemic of spoiled kids either. I wonder what all the fuss is about.

Laurel
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Sugar Magnolia 11:06 AM 07-07-2014
Originally Posted by Laurel:


Well said. I agree. I haven't seen an epidemic of spoiled kids either. I wonder what all the fuss is about.

Laurel
Laurel, I thought you might be busting my chops over the Miami comment.
People behave badly everywhere.
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Heidi 11:07 AM 07-07-2014
Originally Posted by Sugar Magnolia:
I just don't see this epidemic of spoiled kids. Yeah, I see SOME kids that are snotty, disrespectful and spoiled. I also see many more good kids who do act right, behave and show respect for adults and teachers.

Same with adults. Go visit Miami, you will find some pushy, entitled, obnoxious adults there. They are easy to spot. But you are going to see many friendly, normal people
too, they just aren't as easy to spot.

Same with life in general. There's good, there's bad, there's beautiful, there's ugly.

Seriously now...aren't most parents "attached" to their kids? The name itself implies "hey some parents AREN'T attached to their kids, or their kids are not attached to them." I'm attached to my kids, but I didn't co sleep or breast feed, sooooo......I'm not a good parent then? Whatever.

Some kids behave , some don't. Some adults behave well, some don't. I don't need to see any stats on the success of AP to tell me that.
I do, but I haven't had any AP kids here, so I can't blame it on that. I have had a few where limits at home were next to none, but no one claimed to be AP'ing.

I did have one little one who's parents probably fit into that category, but I only had her a month and then let her go (she was leaving for the summer anyway). I had no issues with her at all...but her parents were another matter, and I realized very quickly that it wouldn't be a "good fit".
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midaycare 11:13 AM 07-07-2014
Originally Posted by Sugar Magnolia:
I just don't see this epidemic of spoiled kids. Yeah, I see SOME kids that are snotty, disrespectful and spoiled. I also see many more good kids who do act right, behave and show respect for adults and teachers.
Really? You don't think the percentage of entitled kids is going up? Maybe it's my time spent in teaching & as a school counselor, but ... imo, kids are definitely trying to get away with more, and feel more entitled.

If poor Johnny doesn't do any work all semester, and flunks his classes, his parents come into the school and rant and rave at the teacher, counselors and principals. Even though they've all been working with Johnny, and Johnny could have cared less. Now the parents want to get involved by demanding the grade be changed to passing.

This happens on even tests, too, where a student who normally gets all "A's" will get a "B" or "C". The parent will come storming in, demanding their special snowflake gets a retest or their grade changed.

I can't tell you the number of times I was yelled and screamed at, by both students and parents. Teaching is tough y'all. It sure isn't like it used to be. My mother was a teacher for decades, and she just retired. She went from kids who were pretty well behaved early in her career to kids who had no problem saying, "**ck you!" And then walking out of class. My mom had her car keyed 4 times, and her house vandalized several more. Simply because she stood up to the students, parents, and principals and refused to change grades.

Not too many parents I know take the time to instill value in their kids. They hand them expensive cell phones, video game consoles, clothes, you name it. Sometimes even cars. What happened to working for these things?

To each his own, and to each parent their own parenting style, but I think these kids are going to have problems when they are out in the "real world". You can't just go up to your boss and say, "**ck you!" There are repercussions.

I have personally watched my nephew, 2 nieces, and several family friends recently graduate from high school and get lost in the real world. Took over a year to find a job because no one wanted to hire them. Some of them still don't work.

There are great kids out there. I definitely believe that. But I also think the amount of kids doing not-so-great is rising.
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My3cents 11:16 AM 07-07-2014
Originally Posted by Blackcat31:
One of the ways I deal with attachment parenting (or any other "labeled" type of parenting) is ask the parent to tell me EXACTLY what that (insert parenting type/style) means to them.

Then I take it from there.

I don't care what parents want to call it/label it, I ONLY care if I can integrate their child into my mixed group.

Personally, I think it's silly to call parenting anything but parenting.

Every child requires a unique set of rules/guidelines/approaches, whether they are the first born, middle, youngest or only.

My mother had 6 children and not one of them was parented the same.

Each child was simply provided with the things they needed.

I treat my DCK's the same way. Similar to what Nan said in one of her earlier posts. It doesn't matter if the child is neglected or micro-managed....the result in MY program is the same. ALL kids follow the same rules and abide by the same set of behavior guidelines that everyone else does.

HOW I teach, enforce and uphold those guidelines differs GREATLY from one child to another.

ALL children receive responsive, reciprocal and respectful care based on their individual needs.
I am loving this thread, very interesting.

I am seeing Blackcats view on this- I do what works. Each child is so very different, and the background from which they come from is. I try to treat my dck's the same but often what works for one may not work for another, so I look for what works but being consistent.

I agree parenting is parenting. I think for a child under one the needs should be met and the child should feel safe and nurtured and loved...... as understanding happens the child is taught right from wrong but with love and common sense yet a firmness-

I know for myself that I got caught up in breastfeeding being the only way to health for your child and being young, wanting to do what was best or what I thought to be best for my child I caved to what I thought were the pro's. After child #4 I found out that having a laid back approach and doing what I thought was best and not from a book to make the child most rounded, happier, content, and probably because I was- Giving a bottle was ok. It would have been nice to have a mentor that said just relax and don't get hooked on what a book says, or any one way of doing things. Do what works. On child #4 I learned that it was ok if they cried after all needs were met. My parenting has spanned over several years so I have seen many of the trends come and go.

The one that gets to me today is the parent that will not say No to the child. It might hurt the kids self esteem! Give me a break. Not saying No to your child is just setting them up for a big blast once they live in reality.

I try to take from old school and incorporate new school too~ I see good from both- I try most to keep it real

Thanks for this thread-
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Annalee 11:16 AM 07-07-2014
Originally Posted by midaycare:
Really? You don't think the percentage of entitled kids is going up? Maybe it's my time spent in teaching & as a school counselor, but ... imo, kids are definitely trying to get away with more, and feel more entitled.

If poor Johnny doesn't do any work all semester, and flunks his classes, his parents come into the school and rant and rave at the teacher, counselors and principals. Even though they've all been working with Johnny, and Johnny could have cared less. Now the parents want to get involved by demanding the grade be changed to passing.

This happens on even tests, too, where a student who normally gets all "A's" will get a "B" or "C". The parent will come storming in, demanding their special snowflake gets a retest or their grade changed.

I can't tell you the number of times I was yelled and screamed at, by both students and parents. Teaching is tough y'all. It sure isn't like it used to be. My mother was a teacher for decades, and she just retired. She went from kids who were pretty well behaved early in her career to kids who had no problem saying, "**ck you!" And then walking out of class. My mom had her car keyed 4 times, and her house vandalized several more. Simply because she stood up to the students, parents, and principals and refused to change grades.

Not too many parents I know take the time to instill value in their kids. They hand them expensive cell phones, video game consoles, clothes, you name it. Sometimes even cars. What happened to working for these things?

To each his own, and to each parent their own parenting style, but I think these kids are going to have problems when they are out in the "real world". You can't just go up to your boss and say, "**ck you!" There are repercussions.

I have personally watched my nephew, 2 nieces, and several family friends recently graduate from high school and get lost in the real world. Took over a year to find a job because no one wanted to hire them. Some of them still don't work.

There are great kids out there. I definitely believe that. But I also think the amount of kids doing not-so-great is rising.
Bolded comments! I see this in lots of families today!
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My3cents 11:20 AM 07-07-2014
Originally Posted by Angelsj:
Yes. I have no problem wearing a child if it helps them feel safe. We work toward good sleep habits because that is what will help them in the long run, but if it helps them now to wear them while we move that way, so be it.

I also do not believe a young infant (less than 6-8 months) can be "spoiled" by having their needs met. And sometimes that need might just be to be held and be close to an adult.



I agree with this- An infant thrives on that touch- just ask any neonatal nurse-

Wearing a child does nothing for me- I respect those that do it but its not for me.
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My3cents 11:30 AM 07-07-2014
Originally Posted by Angelsj:
Yes. I have no problem wearing a child if it helps them feel safe. We work toward good sleep habits because that is what will help them in the long run, but if it helps them now to wear them while we move that way, so be it.

I also do not believe a young infant (less than 6-8 months) can be "spoiled" by having their needs met. And sometimes that need might just be to be held and be close to an adult.



I agree with this- An infant thrives on that touch- just ask any neonatal nurse-

Wearing a child does nothing for me- I respect those that do it but its not for me.
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Annalee 11:36 AM 07-07-2014
Originally Posted by My3cents:
[/b]

I agree with this- An infant thrives on that touch- just ask any neonatal nurse-

Wearing a child does nothing for me- I respect those that do it but its not for me.
I agree infants need cuddling/touching/etc....and I have NEVER worn a child. While I see persons on vacation and such wearing a child possibly out of convenience, I can see that, BUT wearing a child simply because the child can't self-soothe themselves can create a problem. Some children never learn to self-sooth because the parents never teach that or allow the child to learn it.....I feel self-soothing can become a beneficial attribute for children as they learn and grow. Next comes self-regulation and so on..... Just my opinions!
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Laurel 01:25 PM 07-07-2014
Originally Posted by Sugar Magnolia:
Laurel, I thought you might be busting my chops over the Miami comment.
People behave badly everywhere.
I am neutral on Miami. I have lived in Ft. Lauderdale for 18 years and have probably been to Miami less than 10 times total.

Laurel
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Controlled Chaos 02:30 PM 07-07-2014
Originally Posted by cheerfuldom:
I have lots of thoughts on this....

Now as to my experience......like a lot of first time moms, when you make choices as a pregnant woman that include things like medication free or home birth, use of a doula or midwife, Bradley or hypno birthing labor techniques, cloth diapering, etc., it sends you down a path of information and resources that make a bee line for the AP community. This is the first reason that parents get into this world. They didnt intend to be here but their first few choices as expectant parents led them here. These websites, mommy bloggers, forums and even real life groups can be quite demanding. There are rules and expectations that go along with the use of the AP label. This is a tough crowd, trust me. Easily influenced newbie parents see this world as all knowing and they "drink the koolaid" so to speak.

Happy to continue the discussion, it is a good one!
I relate to this. I had one medication free birth in a hospital and one home birth, I was shocked how alientated I felt by the community I had enjoyed during pregnancy one I had the baby. I did the ferber method with all my kids, I vaccinate, I am quite strict, I will wear a newborn in a wrap but not past 3-4 months and I never be share, I breastfeed but supplement with formula, I put my babies on a schedule when they are old enough - so many people I met online and in real life vocally opposed my choices and I found myself needing to find a new support group since according to them I may have birthed the "right way" but I was the "wrong" type of parent. It gets a little cult like.
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hope 04:16 PM 07-07-2014
I have one AP child in my small group. If I were to judge the child's behavior and growth when she is one on one with me I would say she is an intelligent well behaved dcg. She has an extensive vocabulary and grasps concepts quickly. I really enjoy her company.
If I were to report on her when in the company of the other children in my group, it is a different story. This child lives in a home where the word "no" is never uttered. She is given choices for everything and she can take as long as she needs to make decisions or perform a task. The other kids tell her no at times (appropriately) and this dcg doesn't understand why she wasn't given a choice and has a melt down. Dcg is very clingy and doesn't understand personal space. She literally wants to sit in the other kids laps. She doesn't always want to participate in our activities and wants the whole group to switch to do an activity that she wants to do. When she does become upset she has a hard time getting over it. She seems to carry the issue with her throughout the day.
All kids seem to be working through issues like these at her young age. This dcg really does have a hard time fitting in when I am not there to steer her. I worry that she will have a hard time in public school bc she expects the world to revolve around her.
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KidGrind 04:25 PM 07-07-2014
Originally Posted by nannyde:
I think the cortisol research has been pretty desimated. Iirc the researchers who did the cortisol research that the Sears family uses went national with how they completely misused their findings. They were STRONGLY against the null hypothesis Dr Searseses used.

I've been wondering if AP has become popular with African American and Hispanic moms. I also wonder if child care providers would choose a AP family to work for over a family that did not sling carry, did not co sleep, did cio, did not sleep nipple attached, etc with all things being equal otherwise. (Money schedule age)

Maybe that's a good poll question.
I took on what I viewed as a AP parenting style. I made it clear, I’d transition the best of my ability to group care. DCK is happy & smart as a whip. Would I do it again? Highly unlikely...
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nannyde 04:48 PM 07-07-2014
Originally Posted by hope:
I have one AP child in my small group. If I were to judge the child's behavior and growth when she is one on one with me I would say she is an intelligent well behaved dcg. She has an extensive vocabulary and grasps concepts quickly. I really enjoy her company.
If I were to report on her when in the company of the other children in my group, it is a different story. This child lives in a home where the word "no" is never uttered. She is given choices for everything and she can take as long as she needs to make decisions or perform a task. The other kids tell her no at times (appropriately) and this dcg doesn't understand why she wasn't given a choice and has a melt down. Dcg is very clingy and doesn't understand personal space. She literally wants to sit in the other kids laps. She doesn't always want to participate in our activities and wants the whole group to switch to do an activity that she wants to do. When she does become upset she has a hard time getting over it. She seems to carry the issue with her throughout the day.
All kids seem to be working through issues like these at her young age. This dcg really does have a hard time fitting in when I am not there to steer her. I worry that she will have a hard time in public school bc she expects the world to revolve around her.
My experience has been.similar with AP kids in that the vocabulary and symbol recognition is above average but the ability to rein those in was nonexistent.

It feels like the part of the brain that processes "come here... sit down... pick that up... put that away... just doesn't exist. The blank look is unnerving when the child is WAY beyond the age it takes to follow REALLY simple directions. It's not even defiance as much as it is a complete foreign concept. The negotiations can be relentless. The desperate looks when the end game is plain, without fanfare, and no adult is confusing. It takes a big investment to get them to understand I don't want words or another option. I want you to come and sit. I won't dress that up in promises to have something to offer after you so it. Just do it.
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EntropyControlSpecialist 04:51 PM 07-07-2014
Originally Posted by nannyde:
My experience has been.similar with AP kids in that the vocabulary and symbol recognition is above average but the ability to rein those in was nonexistent.

It feels like the part of the brain that processes "come here... sit down... pick that up... put that away... just doesn't exist. The blank look is unnerving when the child is WAY beyond the age it takes to follow REALLY simple directions. It's not even defiance as much as it is a complete foreign concept. The negotiations can be relentless. The desperate looks when the end game is plain, without fanfare, and no adult is confusing. It takes a big investment to get them to understand I don't want words or another option. I want you to come and sit. I won't dress that up in promises to have something to offer after you so it. Just do it.
Hmmm. I am getting a lot of kids with those distant looks that aren't AP kids lately. They are simply only children.
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cheerfuldom 04:54 PM 07-07-2014
Originally Posted by daycarediva:
*cringe* as a Hispanic mother (half anyway) those are some pretty broad generalizations/stereotypes.

I am an AP mother. I used slings for awake times when I couldn't hold my child and he/she couldn't be in good supervision. I had my kids in the same room as me until they were older, because I was nervous/lazy/breastfeeding and *I* slept better, but each of my four children had/have their own rooms and their own beds. My child/ren never parented each other, although older girls generally 'help' as helping with family is expected in our family. As far as 'being men' and earning man status, in my family and in the Hispanic families I grew up in, that is about being respectful, responsible, polite and hard working. It is NOT 'don't be a baby, don't cry' AT ALL. Girls are raised to be WOMEN in much the same way. I have VERY VERY rarely heard a child in my family be disrespectful, when they ARE, several family members WILL speak up.

I've never used a pacifier.
My babies went to sippy cups early.
They weren't coddled.

As far as running wild, it's pretty family dependent on what general rules apply. I can't say I feel that MOST Hispanic children are allowed to run WILD. Most Hispanic families ARE large so it's loud and rowdy and they ALL encourage physical activity. My boys are allowed to wrestle with dh's approval and supervision, for example. My cousins children are allowed to wrestle the same way. My nieces aren't allowed to touch each other at all. The kids in MY family are much more respectful compared to the same age kids in Dh's Italian family(dh is half german, half Italian), even though the two families share in the same religious and moral beliefs.

I also have a large extended Hispanic family-- most don't even have a parenting style that they could name, it's doing what they feel is right and what works for them.
I am fully hispanic and yes I realize that I made board generalizations. This is just my experience and not meant at all to be offensive. I am sorry if I came off that way. By running wild, I did not mean completely unsupervised and crazy....I meant just exactly what you described, lots of physical activity, play wrestling and more independent play like climbing and things that helicopter parents probably wouldnt feel comfortable with. In my experience, Hispanic moms give their kids more freedom whether that be just because they have to due to large families or whether it be a cultural thing or just personal choice.
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hope 05:00 PM 07-07-2014
I also want to add that the AP dcg has no anxiety. ..NONE. at times I feel she is numb and I don't want to sound mean. It seems that she lacks the excitement and anticipation and exuberance That children have.
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nannyde 05:39 PM 07-07-2014
Originally Posted by cheerfuldom:
I am fully hispanic and yes I realize that I made board generalizations. This is just my experience and not meant at all to be offensive. I am sorry if I came off that way. By running wild, I did not mean completely unsupervised and crazy....I meant just exactly what you described, lots of physical activity, play wrestling and more independent play like climbing and things that helicopter parents probably wouldnt feel comfortable with. In my experience, Hispanic moms give their kids more freedom whether that be just because they have to due to large families or whether it be a cultural thing or just personal choice.
I spent quite a bit of time in Hawaii on Maui when Cohle was six and seven. I became good friends with some folks who had age mates. We talked about "outdoor life" and how the houses of the middle class are small with big families but the kids were outside all the time so it didn't feel cramped.

I live in a 2000k town now and WOWZERS is it different. My son is gone all day long. The green space here is thru the roof. The little kids are outside unsupervised a ton. It's SO refreshing to watch them play. It's like play from my childhood. I dig it so much.

I see kids outside all day every day and no adults. Once they are five it's go play.

I dig it and my kid really digs it. This summer is flying by. I wish I would have moved here when he was little.
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nanglgrl 07:46 PM 07-07-2014
Originally Posted by hope:
I have one AP child in my small group. If I were to judge the child's behavior and growth when she is one on one with me I would say she is an intelligent well behaved dcg. She has an extensive vocabulary and grasps concepts quickly. I really enjoy her company.
If I were to report on her when in the company of the other children in my group, it is a different story. This child lives in a home where the word "no" is never uttered. She is given choices for everything and she can take as long as she needs to make decisions or perform a task. The other kids tell her no at times (appropriately) and this dcg doesn't understand why she wasn't given a choice and has a melt down. Dcg is very clingy and doesn't understand personal space. She literally wants to sit in the other kids laps. She doesn't always want to participate in our activities and wants the whole group to switch to do an activity that she wants to do. When she does become upset she has a hard time getting over it. She seems to carry the issue with her throughout the day.
All kids seem to be working through issues like these at her young age. This dcg really does have a hard time fitting in when I am not there to steer her. I worry that she will have a hard time in public school bc she expects the world to revolve around her.
I have one child in my group who's parents practice AP and this is exactly how I would describe him. He's so smart in some ways but in other ways he's so behind. He seems emotionally stunted and doesn't play with his peers, is rarely happy or sad, just there. If that makes sense.
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cheerfuldom 07:55 PM 07-07-2014
very interesting discussion and I am proud of y'all for keeping it polite and mature. big applause for all of us.....see we can do it!
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TwinKristi 08:55 PM 07-07-2014
While I haven't been in childcare very long, I've worked with kids for many years and been around them as a parent as well. I really don't blame AP as much though. I know kids like many of you describe "AP" kids as that weren't raised with an AP philosophy. Some kids are just easy-going and regardless of what you do they thrive. Other kids are very environment and routine sensitive. I do think devices are a problem with kids though. The idea of always having some type of electronic stimulation (iPods/iPads for preschoolers, TVs in bedrooms, even on the 5 minute drive to school/daycare in the morning) and kids being "brain-trained" from a young age to learn and be smarter and better than their peers. It's always a competition or a fashion show when we go to the baby gym place or playgroup. Kids are a little mini person to model after yourself and tag along on their fun life now. A family I have is sooo backwards like that. They give their daughter the low fat fitness oriented things they eat/drink instead of high fat, nutrient rich foods a baby needs to develop their brain. They just dress her in their matching outfits and take her to nice places to eat but the poor thing needs age appropriate stimulation instead or adult stimulation. "Oh we don't eat dairy so she doesn't eat dairy..." and then 6 mos later their dr says she needs dairy because she's so tiny!!
Because of my life when my youngest was born, he was hardly ever home at any normal nap time and slept in the car a lot. We had to leave at 7:45 to take the kids to school, again at 1 on Wednesdays or 2 every other day. Some days I babysat kids at other people's homes, some days I had kids at my house, some days I subbed in a home daycare. It was really erratic but he slept through the night at a young age. I wore him a lot, nursed on demand, co-slept, etc. He is a little stinker but I don't think it's because of any of that. He's just always been a very active boy. Walking at 9mos, climbing everything, very go go go... He's smart and can be a very good boy too! He's had his rough patches but I think overall he's just an active curious little boy!
Also, I have a baby who just started here. 1/2 day last week and full day this week. Parents are separating and mom had to get a job and put baby in DC kinda quickly. SAHM, baby was breastfed, mom wears baby and cosleeps. She had been the happiest baby ever. Granted she didn't sleep but 40 mins, she also didn't cry and was very content!! She also slept in a crib which she doesn't do at home. She ate from a bottle like a pro. She plays alone like she's been in daycare since birth! She is soooooo awesome! It's amazing what babies will do when given the chance to do it. You wouldn't really lump her in the needy AP baby category at all. The baby who cried the most, has the hardest time playing alone and transitioning is the most non-AP baby I have. Formula, sleeps in a crib, daycare since he was very young, CIO, etc. and he is the biggest crier. He's been here 3 mos now and still cries at drop off 75% of the time and throughout the day often.
Every baby is different. I've seen it with DCKs and my own kids and other kids I know.
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Blackcat31 07:07 AM 07-08-2014
I don't have half as many issues with the kids who were AP parented as I do with the parents who practice AP parenting.
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nannyde 07:20 AM 07-08-2014
Originally Posted by Blackcat31:
I don't have half as many issues with the kids who were AP parented as I do with the parents who practice AP parenting.
Yup

I think providers who don't have the physical space to separate the criers and have their own little ones have a harder time with the kids.

I think there is a market for attachment daycare. I don't think there is money in it though.
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KiddieCahoots 08:48 AM 07-08-2014
Originally Posted by hope:
I have one AP child in my small group. If I were to judge the child's behavior and growth when she is one on one with me I would say she is an intelligent well behaved dcg. She has an extensive vocabulary and grasps concepts quickly. I really enjoy her company.
If I were to report on her when in the company of the other children in my group, it is a different story. This child lives in a home where the word "no" is never uttered. She is given choices for everything and she can take as long as she needs to make decisions or perform a task. The other kids tell her no at times (appropriately) and this dcg doesn't understand why she wasn't given a choice and has a melt down. Dcg is very clingy and doesn't understand personal space. She literally wants to sit in the other kids laps. She doesn't always want to participate in our activities and wants the whole group to switch to do an activity that she wants to do. When she does become upset she has a hard time getting over it. She seems to carry the issue with her throughout the day.
All kids seem to be working through issues like these at her young age. This dcg really does have a hard time fitting in when I am not there to steer her. I worry that she will have a hard time in public school bc she expects the world to revolve around her.
I had a child in my care like this too. Except she wasn't well behaved, but then again neither were the parents. These were the parents that wanted me to cater to their child with letting her inappropriate behavior slide, yet expected me to set limits and discipline the other children for the same inappropriate behavior. These parents did practice ap, but obviously had other parenting factors going on in there too.

This child was ahead in her vocabulary too, and very intelligent, but like you and others are saying, her emotional development was immature. She was more outgoing one on one with me, but in a group she was a fish out of water. She didn't relate well or play well with others, and over time was excluded more and more by the other kids.

If we're noticing the same thing with emotional development being somewhat behind, isn't that going to eventually delay them with academics, once in school? And if so, will they eventually catch up, or is the opportunity lost in the early years?
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hope 09:58 AM 07-08-2014
Originally Posted by KiddieCahoots:
I had a child in my care like this too. Except she wasn't well behaved, but then again neither were the parents. These were the parents that wanted me to cater to their child with letting her inappropriate behavior slide, yet expected me to set limits and discipline the other children for the same inappropriate behavior. These parents did practice ap, but obviously had other parenting factors going on in there too.

This child was ahead in her vocabulary too, and very intelligent, but like you and others are saying, her emotional development was immature. She was more outgoing one on one with me, but in a group she was a fish out of water. She didn't relate well or play well with others, and over time was excluded more and more by the other kids.

If we're noticing the same thing with emotional development being somewhat behind, isn't that going to eventually delay them with academics, once in school? And if so, will they eventually catch up, or is the opportunity lost in the early years?
The problem I ran into with socializing my AP dcg is that the group of kids I have were acting as the real world would. They did say no, didn't always offer choices, didn't tip toe around her emotions and valued their own personal space at times. I do understand why AP should work with infants but I don't understand how it is teaching toddlers to become part of our society or even in a relationship that doesn't revolve around them. Maybe there needs to be a transition from AP to real world?
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Unregistered 10:06 AM 07-08-2014
Originally Posted by hope:
Maybe there needs to be a transition from AP to real world?
I think no matter what style of parenting is used, more parents seem to have a difficult time figuring out how to adjust to changing needs as their child grows up.
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hope 10:24 AM 07-08-2014
Originally Posted by Unregistered:
I think no matter what style of parenting is used, more parents seem to have a difficult time figuring out how to adjust to changing needs as their child grows up.
I agree. But we are discussing AP in this particular convo so I only focused on the pros and cons of AP. I haven't researched AP, I only know a little about it from what other mothers have discussed with me. I really don't know if there is an age to transition or if there even is one intended in this parenting style.
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My3cents 10:28 AM 07-08-2014
Originally Posted by nannyde:
My experience has been.similar with AP kids in that the vocabulary and symbol recognition is above average but the ability to rein those in was nonexistent.

It feels like the part of the brain that processes "come here... sit down... pick that up... put that away... just doesn't exist. The blank look is unnerving when the child is WAY beyond the age it takes to follow REALLY simple directions. It's not even defiance as much as it is a complete foreign concept. The negotiations can be relentless. The desperate looks when the end game is plain, without fanfare, and no adult is confusing. It takes a big investment to get them to understand I don't want words or another option. I want you to come and sit. I won't dress that up in promises to have something to offer after you so it. Just do it.
I find this to be one of the hardest parts of daycare with my kids. My parents make so many promises for good behavior it is not expected anymore its negotiated. I don't negotiate very much and the kids have a hard time with that. I feel it sets the kiddo's up for fail in the real world. Will I give them choice- yes when appropriate and when I want to offer that. Is everything a choice- No. Conforming to a group is an ok thing to learn, community conform skills is ok- They learn enough alienation through the rest of the screen world and busy parents that don't take the time to teach and spend with the kids. Just my 3cents~
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My3cents 10:34 AM 07-08-2014
Originally Posted by nannyde:
My experience has been.similar with AP kids in that the vocabulary and symbol recognition is above average but the ability to rein those in was nonexistent.

It feels like the part of the brain that processes "come here... sit down... pick that up... put that away... just doesn't exist. The blank look is unnerving when the child is WAY beyond the age it takes to follow REALLY simple directions. It's not even defiance as much as it is a complete foreign concept. The negotiations can be relentless. The desperate looks when the end game is plain, without fanfare, and no adult is confusing. It takes a big investment to get them to understand I don't want words or another option. I want you to come and sit. I won't dress that up in promises to have something to offer after you so it. Just do it.
responding to the bolded above..

parents like the "cute", "smart", gloat of what my child can do, the one up of the neighbors, families kid. The same kid that can use that long word appropriately can't control himself and has a fit over not being allowed ice cream for supper- not so cute then.
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Unregistered 10:42 AM 07-08-2014
Originally Posted by hope:
I agree. But we are discussing AP in this particular convo so I only focused on the pros and cons of AP. I haven't researched AP, I only know a little about it from what other mothers have discussed with me. I really don't know if there is an age to transition or if there even is one intended in this parenting style.
I don't know either. I was just making a general statement that this particular quirk seems to me to be fairly across-the-board recently. I wouldn't doubt that it happens with AP parents though. I don't have anyone who labels themself AP but many of them are influenced by it, as well as RIE. Personally, I lean more toward RIE, but don't like to be boxed in to any one style.
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My3cents 10:53 AM 07-08-2014
Originally Posted by Unregistered:
I think no matter what style of parenting is used, more parents seem to have a difficult time figuring out how to adjust to changing needs as their child grows up.
I think most parents look for answers to be a better parent, try to stay with the trends of today, and try to be the best parents they can be with what they have, and then you have the parents that just don't care or don't care on the same level and figure kids just being kids attitude. I think much of it comes from the clientele that you have, intellect, and upbringing and drive.

Everyone can't parent the same way and doesn't. I think Attached parenting has its place just as homeschooling has its place. For the right fit its great. I think if your going to AP be ready to detach when the times comes so your child can be well rounded. Don't just throw your child in the Shark tank as a baby guppy and say swim little gup, swim! If you plan to put your child into daycare then find one that welcomes AP and is willing to fit that into the program for your child, or find a balance that works for both AP and the provider- because well AP is working well for the Parents at home, it does not work well for the child or provider at care who has many kids to look out for and may not believe in that philosophy
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KiddieCahoots 10:55 AM 07-08-2014
Originally Posted by My3cents:
responding to the bolded above..

parents like the "cute", "smart", gloat of what my child can do, the one up of the neighbors, families kid. The same kid that can use that long word appropriately can't control himself and has a fit over not being allowed ice cream for supper- not so cute then.
......Right!?
The last parents of my ap'er...lol....acted just as entitled as their child. I'm guessing most of us are in agreement, (and fearful), that the future holds much of the same?
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nannyde 10:56 AM 07-08-2014
Originally Posted by hope:
The problem I ran into with socializing my AP dcg is that the group of kids I have were acting as the real world would. They did say no, didn't always offer choices, didn't tip toe around her emotions and valued their own personal space at times. I do understand why AP should work with infants but I don't understand how it is teaching toddlers to become part of our society or even in a relationship that doesn't revolve around them. Maybe there needs to be a transition from AP to real world?
I'm interested in the similarities of caring for AP kids and neglected kids with detached parents.

In the group daycare setting, the issues are the same. The high verbal skill set is similar to the physical prowess you see in kids who spend so much of their time unsupervised. They can shimmy up a fridge like spiderman. They are adept in destroying stuff because they have access to adult stuff without caution, they aren't happy with kid toys because playing with unsafe things is way more fun.

My approach and challenges with kids that have too much adult are the same as kids that don't have enough adult.
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Annalee 11:22 AM 07-08-2014
Originally Posted by KiddieCahoots:
......Right!?
The last parents of my ap'er...lol....acted just as entitled as their child. I'm guessing most of us are in agreement, (and fearful), that the future holds much of the same?
TRUE! I can handle getting the kids in line although it may be difficult but the parents can really get on the nerves. I feel as if the parents do not want the kids in line because it exposes their weaknesses. ????
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KiddieCahoots 11:25 AM 07-08-2014
Originally Posted by nannyde:
I'm interested in the similarities of caring for AP kids and neglected kids with detached parents.

In the group daycare setting, the issues are the same. The high verbal skill set is similar to the physical prowess you see in kids who spend so much of their time unsupervised. They can shimmy up a fridge like spiderman. They are adept in destroying stuff because they have access to adult stuff without caution, they aren't happy with kid toys because playing with unsafe things is way more fun.

My approach and challenges with kids that have too much adult are the same as kids that don't have enough adult.


Nannyde, as afraid that I am to join you on such a strong statement....after working with many abused children throughout the years, I would have to agree with you on that. On my worst days of day care, if it came down to children acting out, you could usually guarantee it was the child that had abuse issues, and my particular dc ap child.
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daycarediva 11:36 AM 07-08-2014
Originally Posted by cheerfuldom:
I am fully hispanic and yes I realize that I made board generalizations. This is just my experience and not meant at all to be offensive. I am sorry if I came off that way. By running wild, I did not mean completely unsupervised and crazy....I meant just exactly what you described, lots of physical activity, play wrestling and more independent play like climbing and things that helicopter parents probably wouldnt feel comfortable with. In my experience, Hispanic moms give their kids more freedom whether that be just because they have to due to large families or whether it be a cultural thing or just personal choice.
Thank you for clarifying. I really feel looked down on in many areas because of my race/parenting styles. There are only so many times you can hear whispering "look at what their nanny is letting them do!" Before you get insta offended. (My two youngest are more fair, blue eyed. My baby is blonde, so the assumption that I am their nanny is quite frequent)
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SignMeUp 11:39 AM 07-08-2014
Originally Posted by :
My approach and challenges with kids that have too much adult are the same as kids that don't have enough adult.
One of my former (and best) daycare moms believed this. She was very skilled as a parent and as an early childhood special education teacher, and I respected her opinions greatly.
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daycarediva 11:41 AM 07-08-2014
Originally Posted by EntropyControlSpecialist:
Hmmm. I am getting a lot of kids with those distant looks that aren't AP kids lately. They are simply only children.
HALF my crew struggle to make eye contact with everyone. Parents, peers and myself. They are all only children. Screens and lack of face to face communication are my reasoning.
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KiddieCahoots 11:46 AM 07-08-2014
Originally Posted by Annalee:
TRUE! I can handle getting the kids in line although it may be difficult but the parents can really get on the nerves. I feel as if the parents do not want the kids in line because it exposes their weaknesses. ????
I can see that! Maybe that's why they strive so hard to stay in denial with their child's inappropriate behavior.

Which is funny, cause in the long run, it turns around to do just that, expose their weaknesses.....through parenting.
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EntropyControlSpecialist 12:06 PM 07-08-2014
Originally Posted by daycarediva:
HALF my crew struggle to make eye contact with everyone. Parents, peers and myself. They are all only children. Screens and lack of face to face communication are my reasoning.
I agree.
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nannyde 12:48 PM 07-08-2014
Originally Posted by KiddieCahoots:
Nannyde, as afraid that I am to join you on such a strong statement....after working with many abused children throughout the years, I would have to agree with you on that. On my worst days of day care, if it came down to children acting out, you could usually guarantee it was the child that had abuse issues, and my particular dc ap child.
Yes. I posted this thread because I have had this feeling for a while and I don't have the ability to sort it out yet.

I expect neglected kids to have issues but the AP kid should (imho) have the best outcome for the investment of adult. They should be stable... balanced.... calm.... patient....

The whole point of this level of parenting is to turn out the uber kid. It can't be to just have your kid attached to you. An abused kid is super attached to their parent ... or at least attached to the point THEY don't want to be separated.

The investment has to net the best of humanity and humaness.

Why do they require care closer to that of neglected (not abused per se) kids?
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SignMeUp 12:54 PM 07-08-2014
Maybe this:
The neglected child has a low feeling of worth because no one shows that he/she has any value.
The uber-parented child has a low feeling of worth because she/he are not allowed to use their own potential - too much is done for them. This ultimately sends a message that they are not capable of doing things that are typical for their age.
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Bookworm 01:11 PM 07-08-2014
Originally Posted by SignMeUp:
Maybe this:
The neglected child has a low feeling of worth because no one shows that he/she has any value.
The uber-parented child has a low feeling of worth because she/he are not allowed to use their own potential - too much is done for them. This ultimately sends a message that they are not capable of doing things that are typical for their age.

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KiddieCahoots 01:17 PM 07-08-2014
Originally Posted by SignMeUp:
Maybe this:
The neglected child has a low feeling of worth because no one shows that he/she has any value.
The uber-parented child has a low feeling of worth because she/he are not allowed to use their own potential - too much is done for them. This ultimately sends a message that they are not capable of doing things that are typical for their age.
........

SignMeUp, love the way you word thoughts. I totally relate and get where you're coming from.

Maybe this too......

The neglected are desperate for the attention of the parent.

The ap desire the attention of the parent.

Both are going to get that attention, no matter what works, or what the child has been conditioned to use.
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Cradle2crayons 03:08 PM 07-08-2014
Originally Posted by nannyde:
I'm interested in the similarities of caring for AP kids and neglected kids with detached parents.

In the group daycare setting, the issues are the same. The high verbal skill set is similar to the physical prowess you see in kids who spend so much of their time unsupervised. They can shimmy up a fridge like spiderman. They are adept in destroying stuff because they have access to adult stuff without caution, they aren't happy with kid toys because playing with unsafe things is way more fun.

My approach and challenges with kids that have too much adult are the same as kids that don't have enough adult.
I am really enjoying following this thread becAuse my experience where I live seems to be I have much much more experience with kids who are neglected than with AP kids. Actually I only know one adult who I'd consider mostly AP. I'm not sure if it's cultural or not but AP just isn't seen much where I live. In daycare or in healthcare.
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hope 04:10 PM 07-08-2014
Maybe the neglected child and the AP child have the same goal so therefore same issues......

Neglected child seeks providers constant approval, love, attention bc they don't get that from home. All they want is for an adult to care for them.

AP child looks to provider for non stop attention bc at home they are the center of the world. Parents are at the child's side at all times in case child has a question or a need to be fulfilled.

Both the neglected child and the AP child need constant companionship/mothering from the provider. They don't seek any input from the other children in the group where as many children seek both the children and providers attention.
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nannyde 04:24 PM 07-08-2014
Originally Posted by hope:
Maybe the neglected child and the AP child have the same goal so therefore same issues......

Neglected child seeks providers constant approval, love, attention bc they don't get that from home. All they want is for an adult to care for them.

AP child looks to provider for non stop attention bc at home they are the center of the world. Parents are at the child's side at all times in case child has a question or a need to be fulfilled.

Both the neglected child and the AP child need constant companionship/mothering from the provider. They don't seek any input from the other children in the group where as many children seek both the children and providers attention.
Yes I think they have the same goal. One is to GET the adult. The other is to KEEP the adult.
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midaycare 05:57 PM 07-08-2014
Originally Posted by SignMeUp:
Maybe this:
The neglected child has a low feeling of worth because no one shows that he/she has any value.
The uber-parented child has a low feeling of worth because she/he are not allowed to use their own potential - too much is done for them. This ultimately sends a message that they are not capable of doing things that are typical for their age.
Well said!
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KiddieCahoots 07:54 AM 07-09-2014
Although in my particular experience, the abused child mellows out after awhile from structure, routine, consistency, patience, stability....you get what I mean. But the ap child doesn't. My particular ap child was very stubborn, don't know if that was just a character trait, or both?
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My3cents 11:18 AM 07-09-2014
Originally Posted by KiddieCahoots:
........

SignMeUp, love the way you word thoughts. I totally relate and get where you're coming from.

Maybe this too......

The neglected are desperate for the attention of the parent.

The ap desire the attention of the parent.

Both are going to get that attention, no matter what works, or what the child has been conditioned to use.


desire or can't function with out it- The AP child needs the parent like a third arm and to continue with what you said......it is what the child has been conditioned to know. That is where both kids comfort level lies- what they know, how they thrive.
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cheerfuldom 11:21 AM 07-09-2014
Originally Posted by daycarediva:
Thank you for clarifying. I really feel looked down on in many areas because of my race/parenting styles. There are only so many times you can hear whispering "look at what their nanny is letting them do!" Before you get insta offended. (My two youngest are more fair, blue eyed. My baby is blonde, so the assumption that I am their nanny is quite frequent)
I understand. I have a redheaded child and a child with dark hair and very fair skin (think Snow White). my younger two look more like me, the older two not so much. I also get the confused "is she the babysitter?" looks and comments. It is interesting to see how my culture plays a part in my parenting style. I know I allow my kids to rough house more than normal.
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crazydaycarelady 01:57 PM 07-09-2014
I have not had time to read all of the responses but this:

Originally Posted by :
we are going to see a decline in the quality of kids behavior and health at a rate we have never seen before in our country's history.
is happening right now, in the last 5 years particularly.
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daycarediva 02:08 PM 07-09-2014
My older two look like me. Everyone confuses dd & I now that she's older. My younger two, not at all!!

I also let my kids rough house (with limits and supervision) and have focused on allowing them be independent. Eg. They use real knives at restaurants (6,9,13,15) and the looks we get!!!
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EntropyControlSpecialist 05:27 PM 07-09-2014
Originally Posted by KiddieCahoots:
Although in my particular experience, the abused child mellows out after awhile from structure, routine, consistency, patience, stability....you get what I mean. But the ap child doesn't. My particular ap child was very stubborn, don't know if that was just a character trait, or both?
My son took three years to arrive. My AP kids don't seem like they have made any progress towards arriving...it actually seems worse.
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EntropyControlSpecialist 05:37 PM 07-09-2014
Originally Posted by KiddieCahoots:
Although in my particular experience, the abused child mellows out after awhile from structure, routine, consistency, patience, stability....you get what I mean. But the ap child doesn't. My particular ap child was very stubborn, don't know if that was just a character trait, or both?
My son took three years to arrive. My AP kids don't seem like they have made any progress towards arriving...it actually seems worse.
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KiddieCahoots 08:03 AM 07-10-2014
Originally Posted by EntropyControlSpecialist:
My son took three years to arrive. My AP kids don't seem like they have made any progress towards arriving...it actually seems worse.
Same here! I was a nervous wreck for my son to start K. I talked to his teacher about all my worries, and she took the reigns. Except for minor transitional issues in the morn, he did great! His teacher reported to me regularly on how well he was doing, and other teachers, and the principal, just loved him! But I worked with him to transition him away from me. The ap parents I'm talking about expected me to go over and beyond for their child, even with my own child being in the group.
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EntropyControlSpecialist 01:05 PM 07-12-2014
Originally Posted by KiddieCahoots:
Same here! I was a nervous wreck for my son to start K. I talked to his teacher about all my worries, and she took the reigns. Except for minor transitional issues in the morn, he did great! His teacher reported to me regularly on how well he was doing, and other teachers, and the principal, just loved him! But I worked with him to transition him away from me. The ap parents I'm talking about expected me to go over and beyond for their child, even with my own child being in the group.
I guess I should have clarified...my son was a teenager when we got him (he WAS abused/neglected and definitely was NOT raised AP style in any way whatsoever) so took 3 years to be able to be relatively "normal."

My AP kids here are ages 2-5 and I just have yet to see one "arrive" at being normal...ever. One day I hope to see this butttt...
This is where my hesitation to label myself as an AP parent is becoming more and more tricky. I DO see the AP parents in my group wanting their child to be number one. Even when being number one directly breaks our rules here. If we want them to obey we must talk to them like delicate flowers and ask them if it is okay first. If they say it isn't then we must negotiate with them. It is, quite frankly, odd. If I don't want you to run in the street I am going to say, "Stop! Stay on the sidewalk, please." I am not going to say, "Please stay on the sidewalk, OKAY?" Insert tantrum here. "Oh you poor baby! I can see that you are sad. Let me cuddle you! Let us go get/do ___ to make it better."

I received this in my e-mail today from API Links (attachmentparenting.org):
Years ago, during one of the times I was a guest speaker at our local monthly AP meeting, a dad asked me (Yay for dads attending meetings!) what I considered to be the most important of the AP Principles.

After frantically and silently trying to remember what all of them were (hey, I was caught off guard), I decided I didn’t have a good answer for him. After all, my kids were out of the diapering and breastfeeding stages, and I felt that the Principles still applied to my older children even as our family’s needs changed. But as my children's needs changed, so did the importance of individual Principles.

The answer I came up with wasn't a Principle at all. But it's the same thing that’s the underlying theme of Attachment Parenting: respect. When we have respect for our children - responding to their needs, whether through feeding, sleeping, listening, or touching - we foster a sense of self-worth and we empower them to be independent while maintaining roots.

Respect is something our children never outgrow. The outward expression of respect will be different for every child. It might be cuddling your preschooler on your lap with your hands over his ears while his friends sing a screeching rendition of "Happy Birthday," or it might be watching him navigate the birthday piñata safely on his own because he wants to do it “all by myself,” even with a giant baseball bat. It might be allowing your toddler to jump smack into the middle of a group of raucous, cacophonous kids on the playground, or it might be allowing her to stand quietly by your side holding tightly to the hem of your shirt while she takes a moment to size things up.

I have three kids, and I often describe them as the three points on an equilateral triangle; they could hardly be more different. My oldest demanded giant ear protectors when he went to see a movie in a theater and he needed to sit in the back row. My middle child wanted to sit on the front row, completely enveloped in the experience. My youngest wanted us all to be together. (Taking them to the same movie tended to be tricky.)

What works for one didn’t work for the other, but I did my best to respect each of their needs. I didn’t always get it right, but my kids knew I tried. I still don't get it right all of the time, and I'm still trying.

So you keep trying too. If something doesn’t work, try something else. When you’re stuck, come back to that one ideal: respect your child. If you respect him now, he’ll respect others, he'll respect himself, and he’ll respect you.

*****

This month we welcome these new Leaders: Brandie Hadfield, API Toronto; Sarah Longwell-Stevens, API New York City; Alexis Schrader, API East Bay, California; and Shannon Haynie, API of Camden County, New Jersey; and Kayla Lunde, Naperville API, Illinois. Welcome, Leaders!

Camille North,
API Links Editor

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MOM OF 4 04:28 PM 07-12-2014
The monstrous behaved kids are kids who have NO direction in life, either because mom /dad/whoever did EVERYTHING for them or because they live life without ANY instruction/intervention.

Never knew a child die from simply crying a few minutes. Never knew a child less smart than another due to breast feeding vs bottle feedign. Never knew a child who died eating Tyson chicken nuggets vs homemade ones. Never knew a child who died sleeping alone under NORMAL and safe circumstances vs one that shared a room.

The problem lies within the parents who don't want the kid to cry. EVER. That do not want the child to be dissappointed. EVER. That can't say "no" to their 'baby'. They give in, they let the kids get away with things as to not "cause a scene" or because they fear they will get in trouble if they do.

And on the flip side, you also have the parents who don't interact with their child. EVER. Those who stick them on a couch with games/TV all day, every day. The kids who can't explore other new and exciting things. Parents who are TOO strict and never bend ever. Parents who basically are "hovering"

And last but not least, your extreme issues:
neglect, abuse, etc.

Some of the problem, barring abuse/neglect, is that many people do not want to adapt. They hate change. So when something doesn't work, they give up, get frustrated, and say "forget it". And when you do that with kids, the kids pay. So does everyone else.

I didn't do any AP to the point the child was LITERALLY attached to me all day (baby wearing and never letting the child out of my sight), in fact I'm not "AP" or what people CONSIDER AP at all, but I DID pay attention to my children's needs, spent time with them, made sure they had their schedules down, tried out breast feeding, etc, but I also let them be free spirits, independent, etc. A little from both sides, so to speak.

But most of my AP friends are VERY very "OMG no one touches my precious, he might cry" and I'm PRETTY SURE the idea of AP isn't supposed to be that rigid.

MY own version in my head of what a GOOD parent should be is to: respond to children's needs. It has NOTHING to do with co-sleeping exclusively, wearing babies all day, feeding the babies breast milk only, etc, even though I think SOME groups say that it does. It's what we ALL do as parents (good parents).

Who knows. Just a theory.

I just think it's the EXTREMIST mentality that does our kids wrong. If you don't BF you're a bad mom , if you don't bottle-feed, you're a bad mom. Mom's just cannot win. Ever. And that is the WRONG view.

I think we all have our styles, mine's not any one particular thing, and I do think we all incorporate just A LITTLE of the things that don't 'fit the style' of parenting we have given to ourselves, and don't like to admit that. Because it means we didn't "follow the rules"
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christine19720 11:49 AM 07-14-2014
Originally Posted by Unregistered:
To my mind, the second largest problem these parents have is that they have zero right to expect to place their child in any kind of group care. And eventually that will include school (unless they plan to homeschool).

The largest problem these parents have is THEIR CHILD. Maybe there are families who have done this with total success. But the ones I have seen, their children are not happier. They are not even happy. I saw one the other day (about four years old) who ran crying to his mom because another child on the playground said something he didn't like. He tells his mom "Calm me down!! Make me HAPPY!!! You have to MAKE ME HAPPY NOW" He clearly had figured the division of responsibilities in his family.
Yep..... Parent Fail!!
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Tags:attachment parenting problems, attachment parenting techniques
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